Guild Wars 2

Nike.2631:

Neural.1824:

Nike.2631:

…snipped…

While a bit brash, your statements are dead on accurate.

Gaile knows I tend to wax poetic in the throes of passion .

She’ll never say it, but she’s gotta be furious a simple “Hi, I work at Anet and here’s what I do” post that should be core, prime content for these boards popped up on reddit and pretty much made a laughingstock of her domain. And I’m not saying the poster screwed up — the entire culture that lead him to doing that is at fault. There’s like three layers of management above the individual Developer who need a stern talking too.

Like I said: Next week. Meetings. Lots of them.

I doubt she was furious. I doubt she was angry. I doubt there will be any meetings at all. I doubt this will get mentioned to anyone as an issue (because I think that in her mind it isn’t) and I have no doubt she has forgotten about it already. I think she saw the posts, came down from above to tell us we were wrong and then ascended back up into ANet Heavens after setting us straight.

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

That’s the problem then maybe. They wait till the kitchen is in flames and the people are waving pitchforks before one shows up to say, (paraphrasing) “No, there is no problem. This is still the official forum and we just love talking to you. Bye now!”

Let’s see if there is any actual change. (Color me doubtful).

Gaile Gray.6029:

Forum posting is a voluntary option for developers.

You know, Gaile, I think that’s the EXACT problem right there.

Your organization has no formal commitment to keeping in touch.

You should really consider the RoI of requiring at least one post a week from some of the departments and setting aside some official work time for doing so.

ANet is simply are not sitting so pretty in playerbase perception right now that holing-up inside the Fortress of Solitude is a better use of every workweek hour than helping people understand what’s going on.

Right now the art department is completely sequestered — the monthly visual bug-hunting thread hasn’t been updated in YEARS. Story is silent when they absolutely should be rallying support for their efforts and shaking hands and seeing who the new arc went over. Class balance is always a tempestuous topic and it needs a face (I offered to be a class balance forum rep but ((shrug))). Actually on that topic the forum reps don’t seem like they’re being particularly well armed with info to share either. You built a whole new conduit for information flow and its… I dunno. Do you want to call it a success?

Nike.2631:

Neural.1824:

Nike.2631:

…snipped…

While a bit brash, your statements are dead on accurate.

Gaile knows I tend to wax poetic in the throes of passion .

She’ll never say it, but she’s gotta be furious a simple “Hi, I work at Anet and here’s what I do” post that should be core, prime content for these boards popped up on reddit and pretty much made a laughingstock of her domain. And I’m not saying the poster screwed up — the entire culture that lead him to doing that is at fault. There’s like three layers of management above the individual Developer who need a stern talking too.

Like I said: Next week. Meetings. Lots of them.

Because you and DnT are experts in speaking to the public…

You want a list of proposals I’ve made that’ve been added to this game? It’s not short.

I speak Dev very well. I’m also pretty decent at articulating to and for players.

“We don’t talk speculatively about future development.”

That statement isn’t true and is also used as a blanket excuse to avoid communicating.

The communication about the Pact Commander auto-loot function is a great example of the inaccuracy of that quote/policy. Developers described how the function would work in WvW, and yet when HoT goes live, the function does not work in WvW. The team was willing to “talk speculatively” but not willing to ensure WvW players did not waste their time earning something they could not use. An accurate description of the auto-loot function in game would have corrected the misinformation. Instead, after effort had already been wasted, WvW players just got a message from a dev that amounted to “yea we decided to change it. maybe we will do something”.

“We don’t talk speculatively about future development" isn’t relevant to Legendary collections either. The content is live. We are not asking about future content, we are asking if what you designed is what you intended.

“We don’t talk speculatively about future development" is more relevant to the plans for addressing visual clutter. Most sensible people understand that there are technical, unavoidable even for the builders of Tyria, limits involved. I understand how frustrating it is to watch some players spread rumors about the reasoning involved. However, there are precedents of successful communication about challenging technical development. Not that it is the only precedent, but I remember communication from a dev (wish I could remember his name) about WvW culling. It was a straightforward description of the technical issues and well-balanced effort to moderate player expectation. A similar approach to visual clutter balancing would work.

If Arenanet is going to extend the design and iteration process so far into the live environment, then the players will be often confused and will need more timely and honest communication.

Nike.2631:

You want a list of proposals I’ve made that’ve been added to this game? It’s not short.

I speak Dev very well. I’m also pretty decent at articulating to and for players.

Articulation, sure, you can write sentences good. But are you communicating the most effectively? On this thread you’ve been nothing but abrasive and insulting and I think we all remember a not-so-long ago issue with the release of certain messages from DnT to the community that didn’t go over extraordinarily well. Whether or not you had anything to do with that is irrelevant if your statements about the chain of command in posting are true; what matters is the end result.

Ever heard the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? It’s accurate in regards to interacting with people too.

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

Lmao so true, everyone complains about no dev response, but when they do they get screamed at by immature adults who want EVERYTHING to be perfect and their way. I hate people

I’m trying not to fall out of my chair laughing right now.

We’ve moved up from players cut-&-pasting from reddit to Gaile cut-&-pasting from reddit. I’m not even gonna speculate. It would be too cruel.

Nike.2631:

I’m trying not to fall out of my chair laughing right now.

We’ve moved up from players cut-&-pasting from reddit to Gaile cut-&-pasting from reddit. I’m not even gonna speculate. It would be too cruel.

Then you’d be on par with many members of the community when Anet announced its response to y’all.

I recommend reading the post, it’s got even more information attached than the Reddit post.

EDIT: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Update-on-Legendary-Collections-More/first#post5826784

A handy-dandy link even

UnbentMars.9126:

Ever heard the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? It’s accurate in regards to interacting with people too.

I have a variety of tools in my belt. Sometimes to shape wood you need sandpaper.

Nike.2631:

UnbentMars.9126:

Ever heard the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? It’s accurate in regards to interacting with people too.

I have a variety of tools in my belt. Sometimes to shape wood you need sandpaper.

Good to see you’ve got several tools available to you. Have you considered management consulting?

Devs posting details in other media like twitter/facebook/etc. is not a new thing and it has been highly criticized in the past. (it’s crazy annoying to find crucial event details leaked on twitter when looking at the forum for info… that never gets posted because why bother.. it’s on twitter.. or there’s a blog post 3 weeks later that talks about it… it was especially annoying when there were living world forums that were devoid of living world info.)

At first I thought it was a mandated thing to get the buzz out there in modern media for the game… like they were supposed to try to use tweets etc.. but now I wonder if the process of a dev submitting a post to the forum is too onerous so they have to rely on other means…

Does nobody else appreciate the irony that people complaining how toxic and bitter the lack of communication is making players on the forums is being cited as a reason by other players for Devs not posting on the forums? I love a self fulfilling prophecy!

What with all the craziness going on right now at year end I’m sure everybody has enough on their plate without wading into the forums.. but at the same time I’m sure some people are feeling pretty left out in the cold and would like a little glimmer of hope to brighten their day, be it those stuck in tangled deaths, Legendary collectors, WvW’rs, material strapped guilds, or those without an expansion yet that are unsure if Skritta claws will bring them a shiny expansion or a lump of mordrem crusted coal.

Maybe something as simple as a Dev corner where the Dev’s can pop in point form notes of things they are currently working on, or debate who can fall the furthest in Tyria (maybe leave it locked to keep the rabble out but leave it as a window into the inner workings). I get wanting to bunker down and lay low until the storm settles; people are upset at the direction game has gone and nobody wants to turn on the Anet tag and paint a target on their back, but the natives are getting restless..

See I normally don’t read reddit for anything. These are the official forums and any information conveyed to us or asking from us should be made HERE first or nearly simultaneously at other forums. I am normally a fairly patient individual but the back channeling of devs all the way up to Colin posting on reddit rather than here is starting to annoy me.

Are these the official forums or not? Or are these the penned off area to contain the “wretched hive of scum and villainy” that the forums are mutating into with 9 out of 10 threads being … negative in tone?

Edit: I’ve been dropping the n’t a lot lately

astralaria 4 is bugged, i cant complete 2 of the charts. I made a post about it in the bugs sections, plz go check it out.

Clearly Anet has chosen Reddit to be the official forum because it has a working search feature.

Reading this thread i’m left shaking my head at the absurdity of this whole situation. The official forums should be where announcements and coomunications should be found first. Using Reddit so extensively is just kittened. This is disgraceful.

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

Lmao so true, everyone complains about no dev response, but when they do they get screamed at by immature adults who want EVERYTHING to be perfect and their way. I hate people

Yeah. It’s super immature and unreasonable to expect the official guild wars 2 forum to be used for any sort of official communication. Obviously our expectations are too high. You’re so right, and your assessment of the playerbase is in no way insulting or offensive! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways!

Guhracie.3419:

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

Lmao so true, everyone complains about no dev response, but when they do they get screamed at by immature adults who want EVERYTHING to be perfect and their way. I hate people

Yeah. It’s super immature and unreasonable to expect the official guild wars 2 forum to be used for any sort of official communication. Obviously our expectations are too high. You’re so right, and your assessment of the playerbase is in no way insulting or offensive! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways!

Why on earth would devs respond to unreasonable people who are only going to bash on them if they try to communicate? Also, insulting the player base? All the forums have been is constant complaints, negativity, etc. But calling them complainers is insulting, maybe you should take a break from the internet if that’s offensive. Thanks

Regards, Hakuna

re: I already cannot use my favorite word for analyze, that’s six letters, begins with “a” and ends with “double-s” because it becomes kittenized. – Azzezz and A$$e$$ both work.

Thanks again for getting an official response out in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Update-on-Legendary-Collections-More

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guys, I’m working with Matt on getting his post over here. He will add some additional information, and we want to localize it so that our entire community — not solely the one that speaks English — will get this nice and meaty info.

Forum posting is a voluntary option for developers. It’s great that Matt shared the info, and extra great that he’s working with me to share this globally and to share additional bits that he comes up with, too.

I believe we’ll be able to post up the fuller version later today in English, and provide a fully-localized version in French, German, and Spanish on Monday in those forums.

This post/tone and other like it on reddit rub me the wrong way, sorry. Post or don’t post, voluntarily or other wise, its just a game for me. But GW2 is your job, your salary, your career so don’t act like any dev posting is doing me (the customer) some kind big favor.

I would of course like more communication from the devs and anet that’s important to me, but more important to you, wouldn’t you think?

I’m sorry if I’m a bit gruff and some might say that Anet deserves better when they grace us with a post. But lets keep it in perspective your getting paid to be here, I paid to be here.

And all the hype/media 101 verbiage (“will get this nice and meaty info”) is getting really old, please stop.

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

Guhracie.3419:

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

Lmao so true, everyone complains about no dev response, but when they do they get screamed at by immature adults who want EVERYTHING to be perfect and their way. I hate people

Yeah. It’s super immature and unreasonable to expect the official guild wars 2 forum to be used for any sort of official communication. Obviously our expectations are too high. You’re so right, and your assessment of the playerbase is in no way insulting or offensive! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways!

Why on earth would devs respond to unreasonable people who are only going to bash on them if they try to communicate? Also, insulting the player base? All the forums have been is constant complaints, negativity, etc. But calling them complainers is insulting, maybe you should take a break from the internet if that’s offensive. Thanks

Regards, Hakuna

Let’s see. Why would the devs use their official forums to communicate?

1. This is the place the company for which they speak has chosen as its official message board.
2. Seeing as how their company owns this message board, they also have the means to moderate posts that violate their terms of use.
3. Because it looks unprofessional and extremely scattered to leave important information strewn all over the internet.
4. This is where their customers, who own the game, are led to believe news and announcements will be made, on account of the whole subforum named exactly that.
5. Because this is where they work, and posting to Reddit doesn’t shield them from criticism, so why not post here?

I genuinely don’t understand why their self-moderated forum gets the cold shoulder and people are rushing to defend that decision, like Reddit is somehow a safe-haven for them in a way they cannot create here. Is Reddit part of some unknown complaint-free zone on the internet? Are only mature and reasonable people allowed to post there? How have I missed such a place? Please. Explain this to me.

Explain to me how you’re not perpetuating toxicity by trying to shut down another person’s concerns by reducing them to “immature complainers.” Is it your job to moderate people?

UnbentMars.9126:

Nike.2631:

Neural.1824:

Nike.2631:

…snipped…

While a bit brash, your statements are dead on accurate.

Gaile knows I tend to wax poetic in the throes of passion .

She’ll never say it, but she’s gotta be furious a simple “Hi, I work at Anet and here’s what I do” post that should be core, prime content for these boards popped up on reddit and pretty much made a laughingstock of her domain. And I’m not saying the poster screwed up — the entire culture that lead him to doing that is at fault. There’s like three layers of management above the individual Developer who need a stern talking too.

Like I said: Next week. Meetings. Lots of them.

Because you and DnT are experts in speaking to the public…

im under the impression that this nike isnt the braggart you think youre referring to.

Okay, a few things that I’ll just be quick about:

1) The post from Matt was amazing. His follow up posts on the reddit thread were even better (they were short and direct responses to questions made openly and in good humour). This is exactly what people have been asking (and occasionally rioting) for for years.

2) It’s sad that it was on reddit, but if that’s just how it’s going to be then excellent communication in a non-ideal place is better than no communication.

3) There is a serious issue with player communication that goes back a long way. Just look at how well Matt’s reddit post was received, even though it notes multiple problems with a single game system and ALSO states that it’ll be a long and unknown amount of time until they are fixed. So much of the hate on these forums could be solved if the community was actually talked to.

4) Gaile, the “We don’t talk speculatively about future development” guideline, if that is all that is going on, is clearly not working. People are really, really angry. We were told communication would improve after the SAB riots, and it hasn’t. I don’t think anyone believes this is your fault, but there is a fault in the system somewhere and it needs fixing.

5) I really don’t think the community blaming by some people is helpful. People were angry before this reddit post, just look at the countless bug threads (angry about lack of clarification on the issues, not the existence of them) to see that. People aren’t getting angry here because of the reddit post, they just haven’t stopped being angry yet, and are pointing Matt’s writing as an example of how to appease this.

(Note, to avoid the usual kittenstorm, when I say “people” I mean it in the normal sense of the word, “more than one person”. It is not meant to be read as “everyone”, nor “the entire guild wars 2 playerbase”. If you don’t think I have spoken for you, fine, I wasn’t pretending to.)

UnbentMars.9126:

Nike.2631:

(quote from UnbentMars.9126)Ever heard the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? It’s accurate in regards to interacting with people too.(/quote)

I have a variety of tools in my belt. Sometimes to shape wood you need sandpaper.

Good to see you’ve got several tools available to you. Have you considered management consulting?

Seems like you’re shooting the messenger. I don’t care if Nike is abrasive. What he’s saying is spot on. I too have championed catching flies with honey instead of vinegar but in this case the flies are bees who prefer to bring nectar to other hives but their own because their own won’t let them and it’s leading to colony collapse.

EDIT: Had to mangle your original quote there with the flies, Unbent because the forum engine seems to cut out quotes three-deep.

insanemaniac.2456:

I’m under the impression that this Nike isnt the braggart you think youre referring to.

Hey now, I’ve always found Nike EU to be a useful source of information relating to his passion (dungeons)… when properly handled .

And obviously he has tremendously good taste in screen names!

@ matt:

When you are already looking on fixing the legendary collection achievements.

Please don’t forget INCINERATOR I, theres a game breaking bug on it on the item that you need to collect from SECTOR ZUHL.
A bug, that hasn’t been fixed since 3 YEARS about the giant destroyer troll at the end becoming out of a sudden permanently immune against all damage, so that you can’t kill it anymore to get the chest to appear from which you get the sector zuhl building materials

Please fix this by removing this silly immunity bug and/or by making the chest not appear only when you defeat the troll, but simply a chest that you can open in the room so that defeating the troll is not required anymore, what would be another cheap and simple solution to this!

Guhracie.3419:

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

Guhracie.3419:

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

Lmao so true, everyone complains about no dev response, but when they do they get screamed at by immature adults who want EVERYTHING to be perfect and their way. I hate people

Yeah. It’s super immature and unreasonable to expect the official guild wars 2 forum to be used for any sort of official communication. Obviously our expectations are too high. You’re so right, and your assessment of the playerbase is in no way insulting or offensive! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways!

Why on earth would devs respond to unreasonable people who are only going to bash on them if they try to communicate? Also, insulting the player base? All the forums have been is constant complaints, negativity, etc. But calling them complainers is insulting, maybe you should take a break from the internet if that’s offensive. Thanks

Regards, Hakuna

Let’s see. Why would the devs use their official forums to communicate?

1. This is the place the company for which they speak has chosen as its official message board.
2. Seeing as how their company owns this message board, they also have the means to moderate posts that violate their terms of use.
3. Because it looks unprofessional and extremely scattered to leave important information strewn all over the internet.
4. This is where their customers, who own the game, are led to believe news and announcements will be made, on account of the whole subforum named exactly that.
5. Because this is where they work, and posting to Reddit doesn’t shield them from criticism, so why not post here?

I genuinely don’t understand why their self-moderated forum gets the cold shoulder and people are rushing to defend that decision, like Reddit is somehow a safe-haven for them in a way they cannot create here. Is Reddit part of some unknown complaint-free zone on the internet? Are only mature and reasonable people allowed to post there? How have I missed such a place? Please. Explain this to me.

Explain to me how you’re not perpetuating toxicity by trying to shut down another person’s concerns by reducing them to “immature complainers.” Is it your job to moderate people?

I’m not gonna go back and forth with you, but i’ll leave it at this. I honestly don’t agree that devs don’t post on the forums and it’s annoying, but the amount of people who are hostile about them posting on reddit right not is kinda silly, I understand we all want them to post here, but HoT caused a lot of angry players to post on forums, mouthing how much they hate the game, the company, games dying, etc. All I’m saying is I doubt they will post on the forums regularly until players put their pitchforks down. It’s their decision to not post on the forums, and instead reddit, It sucks and I hate it, as a customer I wish they’d talk to us more, but things really don’t always go the way you want em to.

PS: I’m not trying to be a jerk by any means, but the main point is it’s the devs decision, you can’t force them to post on the offical forums(Or can we)

Have a nice day =P

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

Guhracie.3419:

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

Guhracie.3419:

HakunaMataBaby.2734:

FrouFrou.4958:

I just find this so sad but still sorta hilarious. People have been begging for any kind of information and finally there’s a nice dev out there talking to us but behold! The GW2 community that doesn’t seem to operate under any kind of logical laws, strikes yet again! Angrymob equipped with pitchforks and torches making sure that no dev will be posting here or on Reddit after this. Wohoo! Praise the Great Lord Flame Ram and pass the ketchup!

Lmao so true, everyone complains about no dev response, but when they do they get screamed at by immature adults who want EVERYTHING to be perfect and their way. I hate people

Yeah. It’s super immature and unreasonable to expect the official guild wars 2 forum to be used for any sort of official communication. Obviously our expectations are too high. You’re so right, and your assessment of the playerbase is in no way insulting or offensive! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways!

Why on earth would devs respond to unreasonable people who are only going to bash on them if they try to communicate? Also, insulting the player base? All the forums have been is constant complaints, negativity, etc. But calling them complainers is insulting, maybe you should take a break from the internet if that’s offensive. Thanks

Regards, Hakuna

Let’s see. Why would the devs use their official forums to communicate?

1. This is the place the company for which they speak has chosen as its official message board.
2. Seeing as how their company owns this message board, they also have the means to moderate posts that violate their terms of use.
3. Because it looks unprofessional and extremely scattered to leave important information strewn all over the internet.
4. This is where their customers, who own the game, are led to believe news and announcements will be made, on account of the whole subforum named exactly that.
5. Because this is where they work, and posting to Reddit doesn’t shield them from criticism, so why not post here?

I genuinely don’t understand why their self-moderated forum gets the cold shoulder and people are rushing to defend that decision, like Reddit is somehow a safe-haven for them in a way they cannot create here. Is Reddit part of some unknown complaint-free zone on the internet? Are only mature and reasonable people allowed to post there? How have I missed such a place? Please. Explain this to me.

Explain to me how you’re not perpetuating toxicity by trying to shut down another person’s concerns by reducing them to “immature complainers.” Is it your job to moderate people?

I’m not gonna go back and forth with you, but i’ll leave it at this. I honestly don’t agree that devs don’t post on the forums and it’s annoying, but the amount of people who are hostile about them posting on reddit right not is kinda silly, I understand we all want them to post here, but HoT caused a lot of angry players to post on forums, mouthing how much they hate the game, the company, games dying, etc. All I’m saying is I doubt they will post on the forums regularly until players put their pitchforks down. It’s their decision to not post on the forums, and instead reddit, It sucks and I hate it, as a customer I wish they’d talk to us more, but things really don’t always go the way you want em to.

PS: I’m not trying to be a jerk by any means, but the main point is it’s the devs decision, you can’t force them to post on the offical forums(Or can we)

Have a nice day =P

They may post on an unofficial forum to their hearts content. But this is their official forum and this is where they should be posting important information such as the fixes to problems with Legendaries. They can post there too, but this place should get it first.

As an example, In spite of Gayle saying how delighted they are to talk to us, for over a month I’ve seen a steady stream of threads about having to fail events to get an item for a Legendary crafting. People were begging for ANet to even acknowledge that there was a problem. What I found out today was that ANet posted in reddit about the problems with this collection a month ago and discussed it there and asked for input.

Did a single ANet employee post even once on even one of those threads on this, their official forum, where people were begging for a response? No.

And the notion that the best way to handle angry customers is to let them congregate and work each other up and your employees response is to go somewhere else to post until they stop being hostile, I don’t think I’ve ever read that one in any book on good business/customer relations.

Reading back over some of the comments posted, some people fail to understand the relationship between us and ANet and expressed the belief that remarks not sufficiently friendly will drive ANet staff away.

We are not friends. We are not friends posting to each other. They are a business and we are their customers.

If a business can’t handle complaints and even rude or abrasive remarks when speaking to its customers then they are going to continually have problems as they will be unable to address their customers concerns. it’s their JOB to handle customers and the idea that a few angry, salty, abrasive or rude comments is enough to send them shrinking back is laughable, or if true, shows that employee needs more training or needs to find a different job.

If ANet is not posting on their official forum but on an unofficial one to avoid salty remarks because they are such fragile blossoms that salt burns too much, then I’m sad for their salt burns but maybe they need to grow a tougher skin. If they want to reduce the salt, then they communicate with us with a steady stream of the same type posts that they put on the unofficial forum. If they can’t handle remarks then maybe they need to hire someone who posts by proxy for them and forwards only a sanitized version of the thread to them so they can respond only to that.

You do all realize the probable end result if enough of a fuss is made about devs posting so much on Reddit and not here, right?

They will be “discouraged” from posting about the game on Reddit, and nothing will change here.

I’m not doing precursor crafting but removing the need to fail is a QOL and common sense issue for everyone. Fix it and move to the next broken toy ASAP.

What I imagine it’s like working at Anet.

re: You do all realize the probable end result if enough of a fuss is made about devs posting so much on Reddit and not here, right? They will be “discouraged” from posting about the game on Reddit, and nothing will change here. – Well, if they’d communicate with us here on the official forums before the blood is thigh-deep, and there are multiple torch & pitchfork wielding mobs, then it wouldn’t really be an issue now, would it? There will always be bugs that pop up and make large groups of players angry. And it should always be dealt with promptly and with professionalism and courtesy.(Y’know, not like Colin’s Reddit post on why the visual nerfs weren’t because of esports, and it was all our fault and if we don’t rabidly support esports we’re terrible people and we’re killing GW2.) Sticking their heads in the sand, and/or blaming players aren’t solutions. And we should get answers here on the official forums first.(It’s what they’re for.)

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Reading back over some of the comments posted, some people fail to understand the relationship between us and ANet and expressed the belief that remarks not sufficiently friendly will drive ANet staff away.

We are not friends. We are not friends posting to each other. They are a business and we are their customers.

If a business can’t handle complaints and even rude or abrasive remarks when speaking to its customers then they are going to continually have problems as they will be unable to address their customers concerns. it’s their JOB to handle customers and the idea that a few angry, salty, abrasive or rude comments is enough to send them shrinking back is laughable, or if true, shows that employee needs more training or needs to find a different job.

If ANet is not posting on their official forum but on an unofficial one to avoid salty remarks because they are such fragile blossoms that salt burns too much, then I’m sad for their salt burns but maybe they need to grow a tougher skin. If they want to reduce the salt, then they communicate with us with a steady stream of the same type posts that they put on the unofficial forum. If they can’t handle remarks then maybe they need to hire someone who posts by proxy for them and forwards only a sanitized version of the thread to them so they can respond only to that.

But as a developer, a person who codes the game, it may not be in their wheelhouse set of skills to deal with the customers directly. That’s what the community team is for, they are the buffer, a semi-permeable membrane that lets constructive information through to the dev and control information coming from the devs.

Now before people scream about the second part let me explain. Software developers are a clever lot and they love to tell people about the clever bits of work they do. They also tend to under estimate the time it takes to fix/implement something and over promise what will be done because most don’t see the whole schedule. They may be able to get their little corner of a feature done but the art asset, UI code, flavor text, etc doesn’t get schedule for the next patch. Bugs can be fixed but doesn’t get in under the deadline for their QA before pushed to live. Etc.

So really it’s fairly normal for devs not to talk to customers. Project and Group leads who have a bigger picture usually do this but even that is problematic because people at that level are herding cats which requires nearly their full attention. Plus they are the ones who have to handle when the schedule go all cattywumpus when priorities change.

All of that is fine and dandy but it doesn’t address the elephant in the room which is information should always appear in these forums or the GW2 website either first or very soon after it’s published elsewhere, whether that’s twitch, twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. Timely game information to your customers shouldn’t be an like a collection achievement.

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Reading back over some of the comments posted, some people fail to understand the relationship between us and ANet and expressed the belief that remarks not sufficiently friendly will drive ANet staff away.

We are not friends. We are not friends posting to each other. They are a business and we are their customers.

If a business can’t handle complaints and even rude or abrasive remarks when speaking to its customers then they are going to continually have problems as they will be unable to address their customers concerns. it’s their JOB to handle customers and the idea that a few angry, salty, abrasive or rude comments is enough to send them shrinking back is laughable, or if true, shows that employee needs more training or needs to find a different job.

If ANet is not posting on their official forum but on an unofficial one to avoid salty remarks because they are such fragile blossoms that salt burns too much, then I’m sad for their salt burns but maybe they need to grow a tougher skin. If they want to reduce the salt, then they communicate with us with a steady stream of the same type posts that they put on the unofficial forum. If they can’t handle remarks then maybe they need to hire someone who posts by proxy for them and forwards only a sanitized version of the thread to them so they can respond only to that.

But as a developer, a person who codes the game, it may not be in their wheelhouse set of skills to deal with the customers directly. That’s what the community team is for, they are the buffer, a semi-permeable membrane that lets constructive information through to the dev and control information coming from the devs.

Now before people scream about the second part let me explain. Software developers are a clever lot and they love to tell people about the clever bits of work they do. They also tend to under estimate the time it takes to fix/implement something and over promise what will be done because most don’t see the whole schedule. They may be able to get their little corner of a feature done but the art asset, UI code, flavor text, etc doesn’t get schedule for the next patch. Bugs can be fixed but doesn’t get in under the deadline for their QA before pushed to live. Etc.

So really it’s fairly normal for devs not to talk to customers. Project and Group leads who have a bigger picture usually do this but even that is problematic because people at that level are herding cats which requires nearly their full attention. Plus they are the ones who have to handle when the schedule go all cattywumpus when priorities change.

All of that is fine and dandy but it doesn’t address the elephant in the room which is information should always appear in these forums or the GW2 website either first or very soon after it’s published elsewhere, whether that’s twitch, twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. Timely game information to your customers shouldn’t be an like a collection achievement.

(Addressing highlighted parts)

Of course not all are capable of handling salty remarks and angry customers, and they should not post and I don’t expect them to. However if they are posting on a different forum and speaking to customers there then they have essentially declared themselves as capable of handling it, and since they are then they should be giving priority to posting on the official forum.

It feels unprofessional for a business to not use its official platform as the primary site to give new information and to answer questions, but instead to post primarily on some other, non company platform. If they need to have someone who proxy posts for the devs because they can’t handle it, then the game should look into hiring a forum spokesperson whose sole job is to proxy post.

Remind me of giant merge thread about SAB for long time. No response from dev but Colin post on reddit about it instead and not in SAB forum thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bqhaf/infinite_continue_coin/csoszn5

Its just more unprofessionalism from ANet. The original team is long gone. The guys they have now don’t seem to understand what is necessary for good customer service. If I did even half the things these people do at my job, I’d be booted out and then blacklisted from the rest of the industry.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Behellagh.1468:

But as a developer, a person who codes the game, it may not be in their wheelhouse set of skills to deal with the customers directly.

<snip>

So really it’s fairly normal for devs not to talk to customers.

<snip>

All of that is fine and dandy but it doesn’t address the elephant in the room which is information should always appear in these forums or the GW2 website either first or very soon after it’s published elsewhere, whether that’s twitch, twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. Timely game information to your customers shouldn’t be an like a collection achievement.

(Addressing highlighted parts)

Of course not all are capable of handling salty remarks and angry customers, and they should not post and I don’t expect them to. However if they are posting on a different forum and speaking to customers there then they have essentially declared themselves as capable of handling it, and since they are then they should be giving priority to posting on the official forum.

It feels unprofessional for a business to not use its official platform as the primary site to give new information and to answer questions, but instead to post primarily on some other, non company platform. If they need to have someone who proxy posts for the devs because they can’t handle it, then the game should look into hiring a forum spokesperson whose sole job is to proxy post.

You missed the point I was making, some developers don’t think about what they are saying from the point of view of the customer. It’s not that they can’t handle criticism from customers but like a lot of technical professions, words relative to their profession may have very different meanings to the general public. Plus they can be leaky sieves. I’m sure it’s not fragile psyches that are the issue but what they may reveal, which will get misreported and amplified (see fractal patch coming 1st Dec belief) into something it wasn’t while discussing it. The filter the other was is to narrow opinions down to the most requested that also align with the ideas from upon high.

Anyone else now realize the reason for the moratorium back in 2014 of talking to us was all about keeping HoT under-wraps until PAX South? Because it’s too easy to forget where a fix or redesign is relative to the live game. Imagine some dev reports that they fixed some annoying but not all that game breaking bug and when pressed for a release date, can’t say or after several patches of it not appearing is called a lier. It’s a promise that was broken. This is the kind of missteps/miscues they are trying to prevent.

And as the last paragraph from my previous quote said, information should also be published here soon after if it was published elsewhere.

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Behellagh.1468:

But as a developer, a person who codes the game, it may not be in their wheelhouse set of skills to deal with the customers directly.

<snip>

So really it’s fairly normal for devs not to talk to customers.

<snip>

All of that is fine and dandy but it doesn’t address the elephant in the room which is information should always appear in these forums or the GW2 website either first or very soon after it’s published elsewhere, whether that’s twitch, twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. Timely game information to your customers shouldn’t be an like a collection achievement.

(Addressing highlighted parts)

Of course not all are capable of handling salty remarks and angry customers, and they should not post and I don’t expect them to. However if they are posting on a different forum and speaking to customers there then they have essentially declared themselves as capable of handling it, and since they are then they should be giving priority to posting on the official forum.

It feels unprofessional for a business to not use its official platform as the primary site to give new information and to answer questions, but instead to post primarily on some other, non company platform. If they need to have someone who proxy posts for the devs because they can’t handle it, then the game should look into hiring a forum spokesperson whose sole job is to proxy post.

You missed the point I was making, some developers don’t think about what they are saying from the point of view of the customer. It’s not that they can’t handle criticism from customers but like a lot of technical professions, words relative to their profession may have very different meanings to the general public. Plus they can be leaky sieves. I’m sure it’s not fragile psyches that are the issue but what they may reveal, which will get misreported and amplified (see fractal patch coming 1st Dec belief) into something it wasn’t while discussing it. The filter the other was is to narrow opinions down to the most requested that also align with the ideas from upon high.

Anyone else now realize the reason for the moratorium back in 2014 of talking to us was all about keeping HoT under-wraps until PAX South? Because it’s too easy to forget where a fix or redesign is relative to the live game. Imagine some dev reports that they fixed some annoying but not all that game breaking bug and when pressed for a release date, can’t say or after several patches of it not appearing is called a lier. It’s a promise that was broken. This is the kind of missteps/miscues they are trying to prevent.

And as the last paragraph from my previous quote said, information should also be published here soon after if it was published elsewhere.

(Highlighted part)

/shrug

In that case they should not be posting on any forums, official or unofficial. Since they are posting over there then presumably they don’t have the problems you detailed and they should be posting over here, which was part of the point I was making.

Qugi.2653:

Remind me of giant merge thread about SAB for long time. No response from dev but Colin post on reddit about it instead and not in SAB forum thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bqhaf/infinite_continue_coin/csoszn5

WoW the really blows and I don’t know how to respond in a way that can anything other than negative about the man and his leadership in general.

Angus.5961:

You do all realize the probable end result if enough of a fuss is made about devs posting so much on Reddit and not here, right?

They will be “discouraged” from posting about the game on Reddit, and nothing will change here.

And what good does running away do them?

People would being angrier and angrier without anyone to address the problem.
They’d lose customers by hiding in the shell instead of confronting the problem and the angry mobs.

Do you honestly think that kind of positive remarks would get flamed when posted in official forum? People are angry not only because of questionable decision, but also lack of communication.

How many times does it need to be said that devs posting here or on reddit is entirely V O L U N T A R Y. They are not obliged to post anywhere because it’s not part of their job requirements.

And like some said, why would they want to post here lol, so many nasty people in this thread.

I also would like more dev communication but I’m not going to complain when… you know.. devs communicate.

Wahaha.7938:

How many times does it need to be said that devs posting here or on reddit is entirely V O L U N T A R Y. They are not obliged to post anywhere because it’s not part of their job requirements.

And like some said, why would they want to post here lol, so many nasty people in this thread.

This is how you lose customers. And yes, it is part of their jobs. At least I hope so, because if it isn’t, thats just one more pile of crap to add to this sorry sinking ship.

Wahaha.7938:

How many times does it need to be said that devs posting here or on reddit is entirely V O L U N T A R Y. They are not obliged to post anywhere because it’s not part of their job requirements.

And like some said, why would they want to post here lol, so many nasty people in this thread.

Because they are employees handing out new and relevant information and answers to us, their customers, on a site not that’s not their official business forum but randomly on Twitter or reddit or wherever they happen to be when they decide to tell their customers this information?

How is this even remotely professional? Why would any business allow its employees to randomly post important new business information and answers whenever and on whatever site they choose for that day instead of concentrating it on their own official site?

You say, it’s a choice for them to post. But what sort of business allows its employees to randomly chose to post when and where they are instead of doing it in an organized, professional manner on their official site.

It’s not professional. Its disorganized and it’s sloppy. It reflects badly on management that their employees are posting new and important information on “whatever site de jour” instead of at a central location.

Invictus.1503:

I thought I’d put this here for people to see in case you don’t frequent reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vfeu3/letter_of_introduction_and_lets_talk_about/

Post from that link:
[I] Hello all!
My name is Matt Pennebaker, and I wanted to reach out and say “hi.” As many of you know u/LinseyMurdock is rolling off of working on legendary collections as she is needed elsewhere. I will be stepping in and attempting to fill her metaphorical shoes (my literal feet are like twice as big as hers).
I have worked directly with Linsey for a couple of years on rewards, but I want to note that while I helped with early design of the legendary journeys, I was not involved in their detailed designs or implementations. This is important to get out there because it means that I am still familiarizing myself with everything that’s been done, and where things are hooked in to the game. So please, bear with me.
Now that you are bored with who I am, you may be asking, “why is this guy still talking?” First off, rude, second, to get some details about my plans.

I have a small team working with me, but we are working on a few different things. Specifically: issues with current legendary weapons, new legendary weapons, and festivals (that’s a topic for another day)
The priority for current legendary crafting bugs is as follows:

Fix blockers as soon as I’m made aware of them. Anything that halts your progress is unacceptable and I’ll do everything I can to get it fixed ASAP.

Fix issues that encourage toxic play or interactions. No collectible should be gated behind failed events, or mechanics that make you upset that another player is playing a specific way. Unfortunately these things take longer to fix and test around the fixes (don’t want to break something else on accident), so the turn around will be slower

Fix the smaller things. Things like icons, text (unless it is very misleading, then it gets addressed sooner), and minor inconsistencies. We will get to things when possible, it may just take a while. Something to remember, every minute spent on one bug is a minute not spent somewhere else.

If you see something, say something. We actively read reddit posts and the forums. My QA partner (edit: found his reddit handle: u/ANET_Blonk) is all over things here. We want to know what’s wrong with our content, so please let us know.
New legendary weapons! The good news: yes, we are working on them. The bad news: no, I cannot tell you any more about them. Sorry, some things just need to be a secret.
Communication: I’m not a very social-media-focused person, and to be honest, have a lot of stuff to do, but I’m going to try my best to be communicative and up-front with you all. There are things I won’t be able to talk about, and things I won’t have the knowledge or authority to talk about, but I will do my best to not hide things from you.

Alright, I think that’s about everything I wanted to cover. I’ll be popping in and out of here the rest of the day so I can try to answer questions you might have.[/I]

Wow, that was actually really nice of you… Devs have no obligation to post their thoughts in the forums, yet here you did? I’m actually touch… so I now declare to be your fan from now on… Just by reading, it actually tells me that you care!

Your awesome for having the courage to post your thoughts here knowing how toxic it can get here!

PS: I’m a casual player came back after almost a year of playing and been a fan of Anet since GW1 the Abaddon chapter… that last adventure was so mind blowing! it really credited that villain being God of secrets how he manipulated all of… um, I guess I should not SPOIL it some players might want to play it them selves

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Why would any business allow its employees to randomly post important new business information and answers whenever and on whatever site they choose for that day

What sort of business allows its employees to randomly chose to post when and where they are instead of doing it in an organized, professional manner on their official site.

I don’t really see anything wrong with it because they’re not posting some kind of official announcement. It’s just some info that the employee wanted to share about their work.
Do you think Anet should tell their employees that they’re not allowed to post anything unless they get an official authorization to do so? Probably not.
Do you think Anet should tell their employees that they are only allowed to post in the official forum? Maybe that can work but that seems kind of sad you know.

By the way Blizzard does the same, at least for the games that I play, their devs post more on reddit than on official forums. There are also other game companies whose devs post more on reddit. I don’t see anyone complaining about it.

Given that this very thread contains a post saying that a dev will post a thread in the official forum, I think people should relax.

Wahaha.7938:

I don’t really see anything wrong with it because they’re not posting some kind of official announcement. It’s just some info that the employee wanted to share about their work.
Do you think Anet should tell their employees that they’re not allowed to post anything unless they get an official authorization to do so? Probably not.
Do you think Anet should tell their employees that they are only allowed to post in the official forum? Maybe that can work but that seems kind of sad you know.

By the way Blizzard does the same, at least for the games that I play, their devs post more on reddit than on official forums. There are also other game companies whose devs post more on reddit. I don’t see anyone complaining about it.

Given that this very thread contains a post saying that a dev will post a thread in the official forum, I think people should relax.

If you had read the thread you would have seen at least one example where people were posting repeatedly, for at least a month, asking for acknowledgement or help with their legendary crafting and the answer and help was posted on elsewhere. Their customers were never answered here. This sort of thing is not good customer relations. In fact, its poor customer relations.

if they want to post on another unofficial forum then I have no problem with that IF they make sure the new information and answers they are posting are also posted here.

(And the reason that dev is posting is because of this thread)

Wahaha.7938:

Given that this very thread contains a post saying that a dev will post a thread in the official forum, I think people should relax.

Given that the company has made promises of more communication for years and broken those promises, people are understandably frustrated and doubtful.

Wahaha.7938:

Given that this very thread contains a post saying that a dev will post a thread in the official forum, I think people should relax.

Only because people have been making a fuss lately about ANets lack of communication where it counts. Not everyone has a Reddit account. Not everyone uses Twitter. Not everyone uses Facebook.

Frankly, Gaile likely didn’t even know about that post until someone linked it to her. Pretty sure Gaile only made the post here because there are not one, but two threads on this very topic on the front page right now.

They barely communicate with the WvW community, even after all those CDIs, they didn’t bare much fruit, so we have every right to complain, even though sometimes it’s a bit harsh.

That’s not how you communicate with a proportion of the player-base, about a game mode that is pretty unique which brings dozens of players back each day, but apparently not enough for the devs attention to focus on, compared to PVE and esports. (hello horrible pvp meta)

Otherwise like how you react to people, it feels like we’re a lesser priority and only reply conveniently.