Guild Wars 2

Unless the odds of getting the desirable items are shamefully low there’s no reason they shouldn’t post the odds of getting various items from rng boxes.

darkace.8925:

Unless the odds of getting the desirable items are shamefully low there’s no reason they shouldn’t post the odds of getting various items from rng boxes.

There are more variables aside from a simple percentage. They will not tell us what they are because it would allow people to circumvent the system and RNG by knowing exactly how to pinpoint what affects the RNG numbers. It is not simply rolling a die, it is more complex than that. We as consumers can only compile the percentage statistics to get a rough idea, but other factors are in play beyond our control.

And it is well knows the drop rates for rarest items are ridiculously small, but better than the powerball lottery.

Geotherma.2395:

There are more variables aside from a simple percentage. They will not tell us what they are because it would allow people to circumvent the system and RNG by knowing exactly how to pinpoint what affects the RNG numbers.

If that’s true, then would an approximate percentage both allow them to keep their secrets while allowing customers to make informed decisions about the products they’re purchasing?

Geotherma.2395:

Explain how you can budget against RNG even with a % of a chance. Because even if it is 1/100 chance and you buy 110 you can still end up with 0. RNG and fuzzy logic does not work that way. Each time you open you roll that random number again, you are NOT getting closer to a percentage or a number each time. Your chances reset each time and are set at a very low probability. The chance to obtain skins is on par with between the chance of obtaining an endless mystery tonic, and a large guild discovery.

I said “guess” a budget and I gave a rough range that someone could have an expectation of some return. Nothing is full proof, that’s why its called gambling.

In addition, I used to work at an international casino and I regularly saw people bet or red/black on roulette continuously (49% chance on each spin to win). But casinos have a limit on how much you can bet, so if someone keeps doubling their bet they’ll regularly hit the limit before they can get their money back, therefore they lose (worked out to be 7 times before you hit the limit at my casino).

StormageddonBK.9842:

Geotherma.2395:

Explain how you can budget against RNG even with a % of a chance. Because even if it is 1/100 chance and you buy 110 you can still end up with 0. RNG and fuzzy logic does not work that way. Each time you open you roll that random number again, you are NOT getting closer to a percentage or a number each time. Your chances reset each time and are set at a very low probability. The chance to obtain skins is on par with between the chance of obtaining an endless mystery tonic, and a large guild discovery.

I said “guess” a budget and I gave a rough range that someone could have an expectation of some return. Nothing is full proof, that’s why its called gambling.

But it isn’t, you have 100% chance to get something when opening a chest. That isn’t gambling, thats winning. Chances may vary, results may vary, but the end result is you winning 1+ items of some type.

darkace.8925:

Geotherma.2395:

There are more variables aside from a simple percentage. They will not tell us what they are because it would allow people to circumvent the system and RNG by knowing exactly how to pinpoint what affects the RNG numbers.

If that’s true, then would an approximate percentage both allow them to keep their secrets while allowing customers to make informed decisions about the products they’re purchasing?

Yes, if you can remove bias and inaccurate results. But those results must be obtained by players not by the company. As is the case with all the other statistical information we have obtained since launch and in other games where RNG is a factor. Exactly why I follow all my research with videos and pictures, I believe in unbiased information for the benefit of other gamers. I have no vested interest in the items, I see them as optional. Salvage kits on the other hand are a different story.

Geotherma.2395:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Knowing the odds does matter and is the whole issue, that is the only way you can make an informed decision. The lotto example isn’t relevant because we know the odds of all real life gambling and your prize is scaled to the odds usually (e.g. lower odds give better prizes).

If people still chose to buy RNG chests after they know the odds then they’ll have far less cause to complain because they were told there is only a X percentage chance of getting your item. They’ll also be able to guess a budget for getting their item (e.g. if it is 1% chance for the drop they might need to buy/find up to 100 or 150 chests to get their item on average).

Explain how you can budget against RNG even with a % of a chance. Because even if it is 1/100 chance and you buy 110 you can still end up with 0. RNG and fuzzy logic does not work that way. Each time you open you roll that random number again, you are NOT getting closer to a percentage or a number each time. Your chances reset each time and are set at a very low probability. The chance to obtain skins is on par with between the chance of obtaining an endless mystery tonic, and a large guild discovery.

Because you knew the odds were 1/100 and if you knew anything of statistics, you’re entirely to blame.

For instance, let’s say the chance was (HA HA) 1/2 for getting the skin I want.

The odds of not getting a skin after buying 100 boxes is. The possibility of not getting the skin I want is .5^100 which is 7.8886091e-29%

It’s a ridiculously low probability that I won’t get a skin, but it could happen.

At that point, I have to know whether or not that ridiculously low probability of successive tries not yielding me a skin is worth the cost to take it.

That’s the power of knowing the odds.

Geotherma.2395:

But it isn’t, you have 100% chance to get something when opening a chest. That isn’t gambling, thats winning. Chances may vary, results may vary, but the end result is you winning 1+ items of some type.

I respectfully disagree. For you this might be true, but for me if I buy a chest it is for 1 reason, to get the skin, I don’t care for the boosts and mats because I rarely recover my costs by selling them. So each time I don’t get the skin it is a loss.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Knowing the odds does matter and is the whole issue, that is the only way you can make an informed decision.

StormageddonBK.9842:

/snip
In addition, I used to work at an international casino and I regularly saw people bet or red/black on roulette continuously (49% chance on each spin to win). But casinos have a limit on how much you can bet, so if someone keeps doubling their bet they’ll regularly hit the limit before they can get their money back, therefore they lose (worked out to be 7 times before you hit the limit at my casino).

Then you should know better then most that even having the odds readily available, the vast majority of players are either unaware of them, don’t know how to interpret them, or simply don’t care. Just walk over to the craps table. I have rarely see anyone making bets to take the house edge down to less then 3%. Or just look at the example you gave.

It’s highly optimistic to assume that given the odds, players will make the correct play instead of the one they want to.

Mourningcry.9428:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Knowing the odds does matter and is the whole issue, that is the only way you can make an informed decision.

StormageddonBK.9842:

/snip
In addition, I used to work at an international casino and I regularly saw people bet or red/black on roulette continuously (49% chance on each spin to win). But casinos have a limit on how much you can bet, so if someone keeps doubling their bet they’ll regularly hit the limit before they can get their money back, therefore they lose (worked out to be 7 times before you hit the limit at my casino).

Then you should know better then most that even having the odds readily available, the vast majority of players are either unaware of them, don’t know how to interpret them, or simply don’t care. Just walk over to the craps table. I have rarely see anyone making bets to take the house edge down to less then 3%. Or just look at the example you gave.

It’s highly optimistic to assume that given the odds, players will make the correct play instead of the one they want to.

It’s not about making the correct play, it’s about being informed. That is the whole point.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Geotherma.2395:

But it isn’t, you have 100% chance to get something when opening a chest. That isn’t gambling, thats winning. Chances may vary, results may vary, but the end result is you winning 1+ items of some type.

I respectfully disagree. For you this might be true, but for me if I buy a chest it is for 1 reason, to get the skin, I don’t care for the boosts and mats because I rarely recover my costs by selling them. So each time I don’t get the skin it is a loss.

I was arguing the gambling part, because you spent money and you received an item. That was not gambling, the gambling is self imposed in that you expected a specific result. I’m not blaming you for such, or discounting the fact that you do want a specific item but those are the chances.

I hope people will read this and understand as I may not be able to explain this in a way that everyone will understand. So bear withe me.

You may also want to keep this info for the future:

When you open a box the RNG aspect begins and a seed number is chosen. Often times this seed number can be off your computers clock, based on milliseconds, something that is almost impossible to mimic. Hence why it eventually ends up as a seemingly random number. Giving a percentage of a drop for something based on RNG is 100% inaccurate, but can be helpful in obtaining a fair idea of an actual percentage. Even with huge numbered samples it can still fall prey to error because it lacks those further numbers. So if Arenanet released a %, it would technically be lying. because they did not release the coding that specifies what the seed number is that even starts the RNG in the first place. So that is why it is on us to get a % that we feel comfortable with, even if it is not entirely statistically accurate. There is no true random in computers as they can not create random numbers, again this is done through algorithms and a seed which only appears to be random to us. I understand peoples frustration but there is a reason for all things. If you would like for Arenanet in the future to increase the drop rate of these items then simply ask, and if they feel it is too unfair they can change the algorithm to supply said number more frequently but that takes time. They are not out to get you, they are not trying to bleed gambling into the lives of players. If you blame anyone for the loss of your item blame whatever that seed is, and most times it is your own computer. All this bickering gets nothing solved, accomplishes nothing that helps us. You have to know what your asking for, before you can ask for it. And asking for the drops to simply be increased is far more complex than most even realize.

If you want a fun way to see how random really works try http://www.random.org/
Pick a number between 1 and 150. Write down that number and see how many times it comes up. Essentially this is a very very small part of how RNG works. Keep in mind though that the True Random number generator there is based off of atmospheric noise.

Now Guild Wars 2 version of RNG is unknown, or how they figure the random factor. Some methods are better than others for acquiring a truly random number, numbers generated by hardware such as those based off of “noise” are some of the best kinds. As those are in theory truly random. But then we could get into the discussion that everything in life has patterns and nothing is truly random. But that is a personal belief, and very far off topic ^^

I’m sure a cryptographer could come in here and explain why them telling us everything would be a very bad idea, but I am not one of those

StormageddonBK.9842:

It’s not about making the correct play, it’s about being informed. That is the whole point.

I get that, and have no issues with that. My point (made a few times across numerous threads) is that even given thakitten ’s the right thing to do, and even if it’s done, it’s not going to significantly change things.

Those that really care about the odds already have a good idea of how badly it’s stacked against them. Knowing exactly how bad isn’t going to really change anything for them.

And for those who are unaware of them, to what extent is it really going to change their behavior given their predisposition to being ambivalent towards their perceived odds? Sure a few may change, but a significant number? Perhaps you’re more optimistic then I.

Geotherma.2395:

I hope people will read this and understand as I may not be able to explain this in a way that everyone will understand. So bear withe me.

I’m not trying to get into an argument or go around in circles so I apologies if I came across in that manner. Believe it or not I’ve been a software developer for the past 15 years and I do have some understanding of your post. I work with random values in my scripts often and even though I understand they are technically not random they do a good job mimicking the behavior. If the whole reason they can’t give odds is because the ‘randomness’ is based on the users connection, clock etc then that makes sense to a point, however, why can’t they give us the programmed odds with a disclaimer to that effect? It seems strange to me in this day and age that this would be a limitation that couldn’t or hasn’t been overcome.

Mourningcry.9428:

StormageddonBK.9842:

It’s not about making the correct play, it’s about being informed. That is the whole point.

I get that, and have no issues with that. My point (made a few times across numerous threads) is that even given thakitten ’s the right thing to do, and even if it’s done, it’s not going to significantly change things.

Those that really care about the odds already have a good idea of how badly it’s stacked against them. Knowing exactly how bad isn’t going to really change anything for them.

And for those who are unaware of them, to what extent is it really going to change their behavior given their predisposition to being ambivalent towards their perceived odds? Sure a few may change, but a significant number? Perhaps you’re more optimistic then I.

Actually the reason is more selfish than changing the communities behavior. I just like to know what I’m getting myself into before I leap.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Geotherma.2395:

I hope people will read this and understand as I may not be able to explain this in a way that everyone will understand. So bear withe me.

I’m not trying to get into an argument or go around in circles so I apologies if I came across in that manner. Believe it or not I’ve been a software developer for the past 15 years and I do have some understanding of your post. I work with random values in my scripts often and even though I understand they are technically not random they do a good job mimicking the behavior. If the whole reason they can’t give odds is because the ‘randomness’ is based on the users connection, clock etc then that makes sense to a point, however, why can’t they give us the programmed odds with a disclaimer to that effect? It seems strange to me in this day and age that this would be a limitation that couldn’t or hasn’t been overcome.

There may be a bit of IP problems involved. Imagine the potential of finding out that game A’s odds by coding are statistically better than game B’s odds at getting Item 1. And those odds and algorithms are used in every RNG aspect in both games. People could literally put down Game B with factual evidence that they are statistically making the game harder. This is just a guess though, I’m unsure of the exact reason.

But I do enjoy finding out percentages, and I think others do too when it benefits us all. Just like the new API is being used to create programs and apps to help us enjoy the game, people who do the statistics in game things help the community as well.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Knowing the odds does matter and is the whole issue, that is the only way you can make an informed decision.

Except we do know the odds — at least in a general sense. The odds are going to favor ANet making more money per buyer from a gamble box than they would from a one-time sale. The odds are they will probably make a lot more from players who will buy RNG to make up for the players like me, who won’t.

If the odds were something a lot of people would look at and find reasonable, then ANet would publish them. Why? Because more people would buy if they found the risk-reward numbers acceptable. Since they haven’t published the odds, assume they’re worse than those for getting an exotic drop with no magic find.

Mourningcry.9428:

Said it before elsewhere, so, not going to rehash the whole thing – but simply put

What makes you think posting the odds will significantly affect GW2 consumer behavior? Do you think the typical GW2 consumer will even bother to lookup the posted odds before a purchase? How about after?

I would contend any consumer that has an understanding of the way things currently work isn’t going to be swayed differently upon seeing the actual odds. Likewise, I’d bet it’s a scant few that don’t understand the mechanic would bother to either bother to lookup the odds, or care.

Here’s a little experiment in human behavior, next time you’re at your locale convenience store, watch to see how people buy lottery tickets. How many, if any of them ever ask to see the ticket before purchasing to check the stated odds? How about after they’ve scratched it off?

It won’t affect over all consumer behavior..but it might affect MY behavior. I’d be willing to pick up some of those boxes if I knew I had a 1 in 50 chance of getting something. Without knowing I’m not willing to play that game. I’ve chosen to not get the boxes, even though I like the new skins.

There are people who will buy because they like to gamble. I don’t like to gamble, but I will if I can judge the odds for myself.

Well, I’ve had to stop playing because it is too frustrating to login and play anymore. It feels like an RNG driven grind… unfair. I have played since day 1 beta. I didn’t care much about the slow rate at earning gold, because the loot was pretty good. Now it seems the loot drops are awful because of RNG. I don’t play in the dungeons or make use of the AH, so my play style really takes a hit with RNG at obtaining random good loot.

In the beta and just after beta days, I used to get a few exotics a week. I haven’t had a single exotic drop for me since January. I didn’t get to bent out of shape about it, since I could farm a long time and craft a few exotics for a couple of toons. That is, until recently when I started playing Rift again after hearing they were going F2P. The loot and gold earning rate is so much better than what this game has fallen into.

Don’t get me wrong. I still really like playing this game as far as WvW and the combat mechanics. But, until RNG is changed into a more rewarding loot table algorithm, I won’t be coming back. It’s just too depressing and I don’t play games to feel depressed.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

dinominator.9862:

Dante.1508:

You’re right they are more slimey, but they don’t try and hide it and say things like they did in manifesto and then do a 180 when the game is released, you know they are slimey and you live with it or don’t play their games…

What Anet did was lower than those others in my opinion..

I just reviewed the manifesto and didn’t find any reference to RNG. All they promised was “no monthly fees.” Where did you read that?

I was talking about how they lied in the marketing of the game, then gave us exactly what they said they wouldn’t do, a generic MMO just like all the rest, and it is, if you cannot see it not my problem, RNG is just part of all that..

I’m not against RNG if its done fair, this game is the worst RNG game i’ve ever played, worse than Asain MMO’s in my opinion, at least there you’re allowed to farm..at least you can buy stuff out right in their games..

If you can see a generic MMO looking at this game, I don’t really know what to tell you.

If this was a generic MMO why are so many people coming from other games confused? Maybe the problem is you play it like a generic MMO so it’s a generic MMO to you.

Level up, do a few dungeons, craft gear, buy gear, PvP and WvW, Cash Shop every single aspect is marred by terrible RNG, if you can find another way to play it i’m open to Advice.

Gibson.4036:

Gibson.4036:

3. People want to be unique in a game played by hundreds of thousands of players.

Some people want to be unique in a game played by billions of players. It’s called real life.

You know whats funny all these people that want to be unique, aren’t, they just think they are..

seabhac.5346:

Well, I’ve had to stop playing because it is too frustrating to login and play anymore. It feels like an RNG driven grind… unfair. I have played since day 1 beta. I didn’t care much about the slow rate at earning gold, because the loot was pretty good. Now it seems the loot drops are awful because of RNG. I don’t play in the dungeons or make use of the AH, so my play style really takes a hit with RNG at obtaining random good loot.

In the beta and just after beta days, I used to get a few exotics a week. I haven’t had a single exotic drop for me since January. I didn’t get to bent out of shape about it, since I could farm a long time and craft a few exotics for a couple of toons. That is, until recently when I started playing Rift again after hearing they were going F2P. The loot and gold earning rate is so much better than what this game has fallen into.

Don’t get me wrong. I still really like playing this game as far as WvW and the combat mechanics. But, until RNG is changed into a more rewarding loot table algorithm, I won’t be coming back. It’s just too depressing and I don’t play games to feel depressed.

Yeah same i’ve had enough, 9 months was enough RNG, me and a friend are enjoying Secret world, far deeper MMO and very little RNG, they also gave me free Cash shop currency after 30 missions, which was a nice surprise..

I would actually like to see some boxes just laying around in the world with a chance at items. Those are always fun. Even if I have to kill insane little dolls to get them..

Geotherma.2395:

You know what I don’t see? Complaint threads about RNG drops from mobs.

There are, they just aren’t couched in that term. There have been plenty of threads about open world loot drops.

Geotherma.2395:

There are more variables aside from a simple percentage. They will not tell us what they are because it would allow people to circumvent the system and RNG by knowing exactly how to pinpoint what affects the RNG numbers.

Yet there are other games that do. I suspect the chance is so low anet know that there would be an outcry.

Mourningcry.9428:

Said it before elsewhere, so, not going to rehash the whole thing – but simply put

What makes you think posting the odds will significantly affect GW2 consumer behavior? Do you think the typical GW2 consumer will even bother to lookup the posted odds before a purchase? How about after?

I would contend any consumer that has an understanding of the way things currently work isn’t going to be swayed differently upon seeing the actual odds. Likewise, I’d bet it’s a scant few that don’t understand the mechanic would bother to either bother to lookup the odds, or care.

Here’s a little experiment in human behavior, next time you’re at your locale convenience store, watch to see how people buy lottery tickets. How many, if any of them ever ask to see the ticket before purchasing to check the stated odds? How about after they’ve scratched it off?

heres another experiment with lotery put side by side a 6 scratch square boxes s lotery ticket and a 18 box ticket

both working by the simple mechanic of align all of the same icon in a row to win (if row is interrupted by an icon rows after it dont count).

All=grandprize

Half= small prize

2=consolation prize 1$ or nothing 3 in the case of 18 slot

and see wich ticket people will go for

people will avoid the bigger ticket as it has same reward but bigger risk

and thats how odds would affect the market.

Rezzet.3614:

heres another experiment with lotery put side by side a 6 scratch square boxes s lotery ticket and a 18 box ticket

both working by the simple mechanic of align all of the same icon in a row to win (if row is interrupted by an icon rows after it dont count).

All=grandprize

Half= small prize

2=consolation prize 1$ or nothing 3 in the case of 18 slot

and see wich ticket people will go for

people will avoid the bigger ticket as it has same reward but bigger risk

and thats how odds would affect the market.

Not quite the same concept…

Modify it this way – now get rid of the 18 slot ticket, and replace it with a ticket of unknown number of slots face down and tell them that one of the tickets has better odds than the other.

Now ask them to pick one.

Edit: The concept being the nature of a person to choose between known bad odds and unknown odds. The original experiment you pose is simply a test to see if the person can differentiate between two known sets of odds.

What is more interesting is it more natural for a person to assume that unknown odds are more favorable for them than odds they do know? Given that not knowing the odds, and choosing not to know the odds are the equivalent for these purposes.

Also, the example really isn’t quite representative because the odds of being interrupted aren’t stated. Given those, it would affect just how unfavorable the 6 slot ticket looks to the player (you’re hiding the real odds) and just how much more favorable the unknown might be. There’s a perceptible difference between a 99.99% chance of interruption and say a 50% chance.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

dinominator.9862:

Dante.1508:

You’re right they are more slimey, but they don’t try and hide it and say things like they did in manifesto and then do a 180 when the game is released, you know they are slimey and you live with it or don’t play their games…

What Anet did was lower than those others in my opinion..

I just reviewed the manifesto and didn’t find any reference to RNG. All they promised was “no monthly fees.” Where did you read that?

I was talking about how they lied in the marketing of the game, then gave us exactly what they said they wouldn’t do, a generic MMO just like all the rest, and it is, if you cannot see it not my problem, RNG is just part of all that..

I’m not against RNG if its done fair, this game is the worst RNG game i’ve ever played, worse than Asain MMO’s in my opinion, at least there you’re allowed to farm..at least you can buy stuff out right in their games..

If you can see a generic MMO looking at this game, I don’t really know what to tell you.

If this was a generic MMO why are so many people coming from other games confused? Maybe the problem is you play it like a generic MMO so it’s a generic MMO to you.

Level up, do a few dungeons, craft gear, buy gear, PvP and WvW, Cash Shop every single aspect is marred by terrible RNG, if you can find another way to play it i’m open to Advice.

Gibson.4036:

Gibson.4036:

3. People want to be unique in a game played by hundreds of thousands of players.

Some people want to be unique in a game played by billions of players. It’s called real life.

You know whats funny all these people that want to be unique, aren’t, they just think they are..

It’s so funny…because I don’t play this game like that at all. I don’t even level up, or at least. leveling up is never really part of my intention. This is how I play Guild Wars 2 and I haven’t been able to do this in any other game.

Create a character and go through the tutorial. Start doing something..doesn’t really matter what. Maybe personal story which involves me doing at least one heart. So I’m doing a heart and an event spawns. I play the event and maybe it chains maybe it doesn’t but while I’m doing it, I see a cave I don’t remember seeing before. So I go into the cave and I’m looking at the cave and there’s another entrance…let’s me out into a much higher level area. So I get in over my head, a few other players come along and help me out, I get back, I’ve completely forgotten what I was doing, but I see some stuff to harvest and when I get there, another event spawns and I’m doing that. The content is coming to me.

I don’t care about dungeons and never really have. I don’t care about “end game” content. I want a game more like Skyrim, but in an MMO. I want to get lost in the world.

I still find things in this world I’ve never seen before (or don’t remember, anyway) and I’ve put a lot of hours into this game.

And I break it up with some SPvP, some WvW, and some, yes, dungeons. But the open world is where I enjoy this game the most. And I can’t say that about any other MMO I’ve tried.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t care about dungeons and never really have. I don’t care about “end game” content. I want a game more like Skyrim, but in an MMO. I want to get lost in the world.

Agreed. I find it sad that so many people’s view of the game world in an MMO is, “That area you have to rush through to level up so you can play the game.” They probably find it sad that anyone cares about the game world.

Vayne.8563:

It won’t affect over all consumer behavior..but it might affect MY behavior. I’d be willing to pick up some of those boxes if I knew I had a 1 in 50 chance of getting something. Without knowing I’m not willing to play that game. I’ve chosen to not get the boxes, even though I like the new skins.

There are people who will buy because they like to gamble. I don’t like to gamble, but I will if I can judge the odds for myself.

That’s cool. I can appreciate, and do believe it would benefit a few players.

However, numbers can be deceiving to some. Take your 1:50 odds. Sounds pretty good. But why not try it. Grab a roll of pennies (or whatever you like) and uniquely mark one of em. Toss em all in a bag. Now put just a dollar into a pile for every time you draw out a coin. Whatever ends up in the pile, you donate to a charity.Try it a few times. See how it actually feels to play those odds.

It’s one thing to see the numbers, it’s another thing to actually experience them.

I get what you’re saying. I’m just trying to point out that there’s often a disconnect for most people between hearing the odds, and actually experiencing them.

As a follow up, take another roll of coins, and ask a friend to either add some or all of those coins into the bag, or take some out. Their choice, but they don’t tell you what they do.

Now how do feel about paying a dollar to try to pick the marked coin? Once burned twice shy? Or do you think your odds are better now? There’s no right answer, just a way to see how you react to it.

seabhac.5346:

In the beta and just after beta days, I used to get a few exotics a week. I haven’t had a single exotic drop for me since January.

If it’s any consolation, I haven’t had a single exotic drop ever and been playing since the headstart weekend (7-800 hours roughly I think I’m at, uninstalled again for a while so can’t check my /age.)

Geotherma.2395:

Turns out these boxes are pretty much in every game. I can’t say for every mmo but i know for sure:
GW2
Tera
FFXI
Aion

It appears that people generally are okay with RNG boxes dropping epic things at chance. Just wanted to add that info. And again, they are optional.

Shouldn’t that read “every Asian Grinder MMO”, based on that list?

Pretty much not helping this game’s case much, is it?

Tolmos.8395:

Geotherma.2395:

Turns out these boxes are pretty much in every game. I can’t say for every mmo but i know for sure:
GW2
Tera
FFXI
Aion

It appears that people generally are okay with RNG boxes dropping epic things at chance. Just wanted to add that info. And again, they are optional.

Shouldn’t that read “every Asian Grinder MMO”, based on that list?

Pretty much not helping this game’s case much, is it?

You know I really hadn’t thought about this until now but the whole gambling thing is very cultural. For example, the US is very much an anti-gambling country. When I moved to Australia I was stunned about the ability to bet on ANYTHING. I mean it. Anything. It’s insane.

You can buy a newspaper here before an election and get odds on who’ll win and call a bookie and bet on it, legally. The odds are published in all the newspapers. You can bet on stuff you’d never think of betting on. It’s just nuts.

Likewise, betting is part of the Asian culture. What we see as a major rip off, from the point of view of NcSoft culturally (being a korean company) might have a completely different set of values associated with it. Certainly it’s true there’s more RNG boxes and grind in Asian MMOs.

Then again, even games like Team Fortress 2 have supply crates for which you have to buy keys. Neverwinter has them too. I think you’ll probably see them in every major MMO from now on….unless they charge a sub.

Vayne.8563:

Then again, even games like Team Fortress 2 have supply crates for which you have to buy keys. Neverwinter has them too. I think you’ll probably see them in every major MMO from now on….unless they charge a sub.

TMK, I’ve never had to buy a crate to get what I want in TF2, I can buy it outright… Tho I admit, I’ve never bothered to buy hats.

Vayne.8563:

Tolmos.8395:

Geotherma.2395:

Turns out these boxes are pretty much in every game. I can’t say for every mmo but i know for sure:
GW2
Tera
FFXI
Aion

It appears that people generally are okay with RNG boxes dropping epic things at chance. Just wanted to add that info. And again, they are optional.

Shouldn’t that read “every Asian Grinder MMO”, based on that list?

Pretty much not helping this game’s case much, is it?

You know I really hadn’t thought about this until now but the whole gambling thing is very cultural. For example, the US is very much an anti-gambling country. When I moved to Australia I was stunned about the ability to bet on ANYTHING. I mean it. Anything. It’s insane.

You can buy a newspaper here before an election and get odds on who’ll win and call a bookie and bet on it, legally. The odds are published in all the newspapers. You can bet on stuff you’d never think of betting on. It’s just nuts.

Likewise, betting is part of the Asian culture. What we see as a major rip off, from the point of view of NcSoft culturally (being a korean company) might have a completely different set of values associated with it. Certainly it’s true there’s more RNG boxes and grind in Asian MMOs.

Then again, even games like Team Fortress 2 have supply crates for which you have to buy keys. Neverwinter has them too. I think you’ll probably see them in every major MMO from now on….unless they charge a sub.

Just like to say I’m Australian and I really disagree with these RNG lockboxes. Our culture is based on betting on an outcome, usualy involving sport and as you mentined the odds are made public.
The odds on RNG in GW2 are never made public, so you have no idea what you are getting yourself into.
We do have our traditional Slot Machines as well but the majority of our gambling culture is on sporting events and such.
I’ll also state that I DESPISE gambling in all forms, but I’m certinly a minority on that here.

Paul.4081:

seabhac.5346:

In the beta and just after beta days, I used to get a few exotics a week. I haven’t had a single exotic drop for me since January.

If it’s any consolation, I haven’t had a single exotic drop ever and been playing since the headstart weekend (7-800 hours roughly I think I’m at, uninstalled again for a while so can’t check my /age.)

I’m in the same boat. I haven’t had a single exotic drop since before january from anything.

I sent them a support ticket about it, got nothing back. I love seeing these threads talking about the salvage rate of rares….What rares? I’ve not seen those hardly (beyond the daily guaranteed rare) for months now. I occasionally get 1 from an odd source like a yellow non aggressive creature but that’s once every three weeks.

Been something terribly wrong for a while now and no one’s talking about it unless it affects the legendary seekers dungeoneers or pvpers.

I sent support tickets put in bug reports never got any indication that they’d help me, they gave me some automated line about it and then left it at that.

a very good post by the OP.
Looking at the black lion chest drop research the chances for desirable items is very very low. So i’d assume it to be the same for the supply crates.

I think the OP’s post is right on the money, and while the quote from Total Biscuit is more subjective, I certainly understand what he is saying. I have received thinly veiled accusations of “lying” when posting factual experiences I have had with this game, by those who have “drank the coolade” and defend GW2 largely no matter what. There is some merit in what TB was saying, as I do not think these defenders are on Anet’s payroll. I think they blindly defend the game because things have gone well for them and at this moment in time it is in their interests that the game do well… Period.

BUT, I do think we all have a tendency to talk too much and take too little action. None of what is discussed here is news to the game producers. I would wager a month’s pay that EVERY WORD on this forum is read at least once by Anet employees (in fact I am surprised the OP’s post was not deleted, frankly).

My point is this…Anet knows full well from the beginning that they are manipulating us in order to make more money…they are good with that as long as we keep coming to the party. I imagine they have some idea what they are doing and it is largely working for them. Our outrage or complaints here are not going to change anything.

As always, money talks. If we don’t like what is being done with the game the simple answer is to not give them another dime until things are corrected. The forum might be useful in giving Anet some understanding as to why the cash cow is dying, but complaining here by itself is not going to change anything.

We already have the game…we certainly don’t have to invest any more real money simply to play…

Random rewards make more money than static rewards.

Sure, if every skin had a flat fee then more people would buy one of them. But almost nobody would buy 20 or 50 of them at a time. There’s more revenue generated in selling 1 person 20 boxes than selling 20 people 1 box, because you can always sell that 1 person 20 boxes AND sell maybe 9 of the remaining 19 anywhere from 1 to 19 boxes each. This is simple human nature. Inconsistent rewards create the most powerful forms of conditioning, and selling inconsistent rewards is a practice aimed at conditioning a customer base to enjoy spending money.

Here’s a bearded scientist talking about conditioning in primates

5 minute video on Youtube.

I dearly wish they would look into their DR and report back. After being out of Southsun for well over 24 hours ( I spent yesterday leveling an alt through his storyline) I tried farming skelks. One hour later, ( 2 omnom bars worth) with 271% MF I had all of 2 vicious claws, 6 powerful blood and the rest junk to show for it.

Oh my bad, I did get 2 Black Lion chests to add to the 300 in my vault.

Now I have spent money to buy gems to get bank upgrades, alt slots and such but will not be spending any more real cash until they come back with a definitive answer on whether or not DR is working as intended for ALL people and not horribly skewed for some.

I feel so bad for many members of my guild. I logged on a little during dragons bash. I did the holograms achivement and got a jde weapon skin from one of the coffers. There were guild members that had farmed and bought thousands of these things and not found ONE ticket.
I would have dearly loved to give the ticket to another member as I really wasn’t that interested in the skin.
Having these account bound is just a way Anet/NCsoft can squeeze more cash from punters desperate for thoese skins.
Now if they could be sold players that really wanted them could get them, They’d have to pay quite a bit I’d wager but the option is there.