Guild Wars 2

@Vayne,

But you already have a legendary. Can I ask when the precursor dropped and when / how you obtained the materials to craft one? I find it very difficult to believe that anyone obtained 100 charged lodestones without doing what I would consider grinding.

Also, as I said before, anyone who is lucky enough to have a precursor drop has already eliminated half of the grind.

Edit: this is not to disagree with your philosophy, I am not pursuing a precursor or a legendary, in general I do not farm, will not farm, and mostly only play what I want to play.

TooBz.3065:

@Vayne,

But you already have a legendary. Can I ask when the precursor dropped and when / how you obtained the materials to craft one? I find it very difficult to believe that anyone obtained 100 charged lodestones without doing what I would consider grinding.

Also, as I said before, anyone who is lucky enough to have a precursor drop has already eliminated half of the grind.

Yep, my precusor dropped during the Karka event, but that doesn’t change how I got the rest of the stuff at all. I just played the game.

If the precusor hadn’t dropped, I’d have had to play the game for four or five months longer to get my precusor, which is fine.

Basically I play the game. I do whatever I want. I make a gold some days I make 5 gold others. I don’t count, I don’t care. I throw in the gold in my bank as soon as I have 1 gold 30 silver on a character. I keep doing it.

I sell a lot of the lower mats, the bags I get, the greens and lower. I salvage yellows for ectos.

At one point I knew I’d need 350 gold to get my legendary. I played the game until I had 350 gold. I went to the trading post and filled in whatever I was missing, and got my legendary.

But I’m telling you, as a fact, if it took me two years to get it, three years, it wouldn’t substantively change my enjoyment of the game. The legendary is an item. I don’t play for items. As I’ve said before, and I’ll no doubt say again, it’s the quest for loot that has destroyed the RPG genre.

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

If I didn’t have my legendary, I wouldn’t have it. I have 3000 hours in game due to the fact that I enjoy playing the game. I wasn’t even TRYING for a legendary until the precusor dropped. But my point in the same. I didn’t run CoF path 1 to get it…occassionally with the guild, never twice on the same day. I didn’t farm Orr to get it..occassionally I’d go there if I needed like omnom berries to make bars. I never farmed any area over and over. Honestly it would bore my senseless.

I’ve spent a lot of time in lower zones, hanging out with and helping guildies. Done some PvP, some PvE. In no game do I ever focus on loot. I see no reason to. I think the focus on loot has ruined the RPG genre completely and made it something it was never supposed to be.

Do you know what you are in WoW when you’re all geared up? A coatrack for greatness. I never wanted to be that. I want to be powerful, I don’t want my armor to be powerful. I don’t want to put on a coat to be awesome. The coat isn’t me.

So yeah, even if I didn’t have a legendary, none of what I said would have changed. I didn’t buy it, I didn’t farm it. I got it by playing. And if it took me two years…it would take me two years. Why should I care. I’m having fun.

People who aren’t having fun should play a game where they can have fun. I would think that would be self-evident. Maybe I’m wrong.

Another “I don’t think you understand the game” or “Should play a different game” post. Please, keep on, don’t let us interrupt your 24/7 soap box. 3000 hours played and wonders why everyone else is complaining about the game. Priceless.

Being able to have goals in the game wouldn’t hurt players like you. You can keep on wandering around low level zones not worrying about a thing. You could keep on picking flowers for 3000 hours or whatever it is you do. It would just give the rest of a us a full game to play.

I’ve played every game like this for years, even when I’ve had no time to play. I just don’t see what the big rush is. Maybe it’s an age thing. Maybe younger people need everything faster, because the world has spread up, but I’m quite happy to take my time.

This has nothing to do with how many hours I’ve played.

Then why mention that you have 3000 hours played? And this point I’m more inclined to believe you zealously defend every aspect of the game because it’s a learned behavior from playing 10+ hours a day since release.

I mean, how could you hate something if it’s all you have done and all you have known for 10 months? Obviously you are going to love it just how it is, because it’s all you know anymore.

And don’t pull the age card, I’m hitting my late 20s now and I have a family and a job of my own. Age isn’t even relevant, but I would say spending all your time on a game changes how you feel about the game and life in general.

There is nothing about rushing in my statement. I could play 3000 hours like you did and never get a precursor. That is my point, time invested should have something to show for it reliably. One person getting 5 precursors in 3k hours and one person getting none is not right, in any game.

Vayne.8563:

Yep, my precusor dropped during the Karka event, but that doesn’t change how I got the rest of the stuff at all. I just played the game.

If the precusor hadn’t dropped, I’d have had to play the game for four or five months longer to get my precusor, which is fine.

Basically I play the game. I do whatever I want. I make a gold some days I make 5 gold others. I don’t count, I don’t care. I throw in the gold in my bank as soon as I have 1 gold 30 silver on a character. I keep doing it.

I sell a lot of the lower mats, the bags I get, the greens and lower. I salvage yellows for ectos.

At one point I knew I’d need 350 gold to get my legendary. I played the game until I had 350 gold. I went to the trading post and filled in whatever I was missing, and got my legendary.

But I’m telling you, as a fact, if it took me two years to get it, three years, it wouldn’t substantively change my enjoyment of the game. The legendary is an item. I don’t play for items. As I’ve said before, and I’ll no doubt say again, it’s the quest for loot that has destroyed the RPG genre.

Thanks. I was wondering if you got in the early early days of after the alleged Great November Loot Nerf.

Edit: I should clarity a little, I’ve been thinking a lot about the different game design / incentives that go into a MMO versus other types of games. I find your posts interesting because your philosophy appeared similar to mine, which is essentially “want nothing.”

I was a little thrown to discover that you already had a legendary.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

If I didn’t have my legendary, I wouldn’t have it. I have 3000 hours in game due to the fact that I enjoy playing the game. I wasn’t even TRYING for a legendary until the precusor dropped. But my point in the same. I didn’t run CoF path 1 to get it…occassionally with the guild, never twice on the same day. I didn’t farm Orr to get it..occassionally I’d go there if I needed like omnom berries to make bars. I never farmed any area over and over. Honestly it would bore my senseless.

I’ve spent a lot of time in lower zones, hanging out with and helping guildies. Done some PvP, some PvE. In no game do I ever focus on loot. I see no reason to. I think the focus on loot has ruined the RPG genre completely and made it something it was never supposed to be.

Do you know what you are in WoW when you’re all geared up? A coatrack for greatness. I never wanted to be that. I want to be powerful, I don’t want my armor to be powerful. I don’t want to put on a coat to be awesome. The coat isn’t me.

So yeah, even if I didn’t have a legendary, none of what I said would have changed. I didn’t buy it, I didn’t farm it. I got it by playing. And if it took me two years…it would take me two years. Why should I care. I’m having fun.

People who aren’t having fun should play a game where they can have fun. I would think that would be self-evident. Maybe I’m wrong.

Another “I don’t think you understand the game” or “Should play a different game” post. Please, keep on, don’t let us interrupt your 24/7 soap box. 3000 hours played and wonders why everyone else is complaining about the game. Priceless.

Being able to have goals in the game wouldn’t hurt players like you. You can keep on wandering around low level zones not worrying about a thing. You could keep on picking flowers for 3000 hours or whatever it is you do. It would just give the rest of a us a full game to play.

I’ve played every game like this for years, even when I’ve had no time to play. I just don’t see what the big rush is. Maybe it’s an age thing. Maybe younger people need everything faster, because the world has spread up, but I’m quite happy to take my time.

This has nothing to do with how many hours I’ve played.

Then why mention that you have 3000 hours played? And this point I’m more inclined to believe you zealously defend every aspect of the game because it’s a learned behavior from playing 10+ hours a day since release.

I mean, how could you hate something if it’s all you have done and all you have known for 10 months? Obviously you are going to love it just how it is, because it’s all you know anymore.

And don’t pull the age card, I’m hitting my late 20s now and I have a family and a job of my own. Age isn’t even relevant, but I would say spending all your time on a game changes how you feel about the game and life in general.

Yes, you’re hitting you’re late 20s. You’re a kid. I’m 51. I’ve changed a lot of my views of the world since my late 20s. The age card is quite appropriate.

I worked as an editor professionally and I’ve written professionally as well. I’ve lived with a piece of work for years and years and still had to look at it critiqually. How much time I spend on something doesn’t make me blind to its faults.

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to see the same faults as you are. Are you really that blind? Can you not see that there are different TYPES of players who play this game. You’re one type of player, looking for one type of experience and I’m different type of player looking for a different experience, and that alone can explain everything about what we’re looking for in a game. It’s not being a blind fan boy. It’s that this game was made for players like me and NOT made for players like you. Not all games will please everyone.

Tons of people love World of Warcraft. I never have and I never will. Not because it’s a bad game, but because it’s not made for players like me.

You’re looking to try to explain why my opinion is so different from yours. It’s because we’re different people, born in different time, sculpted by different experiences, and so we want different things from our entertainment.

It’s really not that hard.

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

If I didn’t have my legendary, I wouldn’t have it. I have 3000 hours in game due to the fact that I enjoy playing the game. I wasn’t even TRYING for a legendary until the precusor dropped. But my point in the same. I didn’t run CoF path 1 to get it…occassionally with the guild, never twice on the same day. I didn’t farm Orr to get it..occassionally I’d go there if I needed like omnom berries to make bars. I never farmed any area over and over. Honestly it would bore my senseless.

I’ve spent a lot of time in lower zones, hanging out with and helping guildies. Done some PvP, some PvE. In no game do I ever focus on loot. I see no reason to. I think the focus on loot has ruined the RPG genre completely and made it something it was never supposed to be.

Do you know what you are in WoW when you’re all geared up? A coatrack for greatness. I never wanted to be that. I want to be powerful, I don’t want my armor to be powerful. I don’t want to put on a coat to be awesome. The coat isn’t me.

So yeah, even if I didn’t have a legendary, none of what I said would have changed. I didn’t buy it, I didn’t farm it. I got it by playing. And if it took me two years…it would take me two years. Why should I care. I’m having fun.

People who aren’t having fun should play a game where they can have fun. I would think that would be self-evident. Maybe I’m wrong.

Another “I don’t think you understand the game” or “Should play a different game” post. Please, keep on, don’t let us interrupt your 24/7 soap box. 3000 hours played and wonders why everyone else is complaining about the game. Priceless.

Being able to have goals in the game wouldn’t hurt players like you. You can keep on wandering around low level zones not worrying about a thing. You could keep on picking flowers for 3000 hours or whatever it is you do. It would just give the rest of a us a full game to play.

I’ve played every game like this for years, even when I’ve had no time to play. I just don’t see what the big rush is. Maybe it’s an age thing. Maybe younger people need everything faster, because the world has spread up, but I’m quite happy to take my time.

This has nothing to do with how many hours I’ve played.

Then why mention that you have 3000 hours played? And this point I’m more inclined to believe you zealously defend every aspect of the game because it’s a learned behavior from playing 10+ hours a day since release.

I mean, how could you hate something if it’s all you have done and all you have known for 10 months? Obviously you are going to love it just how it is, because it’s all you know anymore.

And don’t pull the age card, I’m hitting my late 20s now and I have a family and a job of my own. Age isn’t even relevant, but I would say spending all your time on a game changes how you feel about the game and life in general.

Yes, you’re hitting you’re late 20s. You’re a kid. I’m 51. I’ve changed a lot of my views of the world since my late 20s. The age card is quite appropriate.

I worked as an editor professionally and I’ve written professionally as well. I’ve lived with a piece of work for years and years and still had to look at it critiqually. How much time I spend on something doesn’t make me blind to its faults.

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to see the same faults as you are. Are you really that blind? Can you not see that there are different TYPES of players who play this game. You’re one type of player, looking for one type of experience and I’m different type of player looking for a different experience, and that alone can explain everything about what we’re looking for in a game. It’s not being a blind fan boy. It’s that this game was made for players like me and NOT made for players like you. Not all games will please everyone.

Tons of people love World of Warcraft. I never have and I never will. Not because it’s a bad game, but because it’s not made for players like me.

You’re looking to try to explain why my opinion is so different from yours. It’s because we’re different people, born in different time, sculpted by different experiences, and so we want different things from our entertainment.

It’s really not that hard.

You are just dancing around again. There is no reason why both experiences can’t be in the game and be relevant. All you are proving to us is that you are set in your ways and too stubborn to think about anyone else’s opinions. Call me a kid all you want, I’m not spending 10+ hours a day in a video game.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

If I didn’t have my legendary, I wouldn’t have it. I have 3000 hours in game due to the fact that I enjoy playing the game. I wasn’t even TRYING for a legendary until the precusor dropped. But my point in the same. I didn’t run CoF path 1 to get it…occassionally with the guild, never twice on the same day. I didn’t farm Orr to get it..occassionally I’d go there if I needed like omnom berries to make bars. I never farmed any area over and over. Honestly it would bore my senseless.

snip

Do you know what you are in WoW when you’re all geared up? A coatrack for greatness. I never wanted to be that. I want to be powerful, I don’t want my armor to be powerful. I don’t want to put on a coat to be awesome. The coat isn’t me.

snip

People who aren’t having fun should play a game where they can have fun. I would think that would be self-evident. Maybe I’m wrong.

Another “I don’t think you understand the game” or “Should play a different game” post. Please, keep on, don’t let us interrupt your 24/7 soap box. 3000 hours played and wonders why everyone else is complaining about the game. Priceless.

Being able to have goals in the game wouldn’t hurt players like you. You can keep on wandering around low level zones not worrying about a thing. You could keep on picking flowers for 3000 hours or whatever it is you do. It would just give the rest of a us a full game to play.

snip

This has nothing to do with how many hours I’ve played.

Then why mention that you have 3000 hours played? And this point I’m more inclined to believe you zealously defend every aspect of the game because it’s a learned behavior from playing 10+ hours a day since release.

I mean, how could you hate something if it’s all you have done and all you have known for 10 months? Obviously you are going to love it just how it is, because it’s all you know anymore.

And don’t pull the age card, I’m hitting my late 20s now and I have a family and a job of my own. Age isn’t even relevant, but I would say spending all your time on a game changes how you feel about the game and life in general.

Yes, you’re hitting you’re late 20s. You’re a kid. I’m 51. I’ve changed a lot of my views of the world since my late 20s. The age card is quite appropriate.

snip

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to see the same faults as you are. Are you really that blind? Can you not see that there are different TYPES of players who play this game. You’re one type of player, looking for one type of experience and I’m different type of player looking for a different experience, and that alone can explain everything about what we’re looking for in a game. It’s not being a blind fan boy. It’s that this game was made for players like me and NOT made for players like you. Not all games will please everyone.

snip

You’re looking to try to explain why my opinion is so different from yours. It’s because we’re different people, born in different time, sculpted by different experiences, and so we want different things from our entertainment.

It’s really not that hard.

You are just dancing around again. There is no reason why both experiences can’t be in the game and be relevant. All you are proving to us is that you are set in your ways and too stubborn to think about anyone else’s opinions. Call me a kid all you want, I’m not spending 10+ hours a day in a video game.

Okay Anet designed a game. Obviously there are reasons why things are as they are. They didn’t design the game for no reason. I like them as they are, and you don’t. I can give you examples of how farming has negatively affected my play style. Not a lot of examples, but some for sure.

The whole plinx farm ruined Orr for me completely. This is supposed to be a dangerous place, the culmination of my adventure, the place where Zhaitan hold’s sway. Instead it’s tag as many guys as you can before they fall. Not exactly inspiring. The first time I went to Orr it wasn’t this massively dangerous hell hole. I was a farming location for people who ran the same events over and over again. Do you really think that was Anet’s vision of Orr? Cause I don’t.

I’m not set in my ways. I have a different opinion than you do. That makes you intolerant, not me. I’m happy for you to have your opinion, just as I have every right to share mine.

As for me spending ten hours a day in a game, I don’t see how that’s relevant at all, though you seem fixated on it. Plenty of casual players have agreed with much of what I’ve said. It’s usually the people who take it most seriously who disagree with me.

Vayne.8563:

Of course you can’t do Fractal level 20 without AR gear. But the gear you need is found in the fractals itself. You’re not farming the fractals to get to the next dungeon. That’s the difference. The fractals are completely self contained. If you do 10 days of dailies in a row at level 10, you get a ring. So in 20 days of dailies, you can have two rings. You should have enough for a backpiece by then too. So you can to your 20th level fractals without ever leaving the fractal.

More to the point, 20th level fractals is different than other games because players can’t SEE the content at all without gear. For non-competitive PvE types, they can play every single fractal, over and over again if they want, on level 1. They can see all 9 fractals. It’s disingenuous to say they can’t see a fractal level 20. It’s just a variation on a theme. If they want to see it they certainly can. But many people want to just see them a couple of times. and be done with it and you can do that here. You can’t in other games.

A treadmill implies multiple steps not one. At least for or five tiers of gear, not one tier of gear. So yeah, it’s not a treadmill.

My point about fractals has to do with the fact that many of my low fractal level guildies just can’t get a group since they are behind, people tend to play the higher ones now and they simply cannot survive well enough. Same with SouthSun, they get beat down the minute they face the first fight. It’s not as bad as other games sure, auto leveling helps, but they are still behind. The molten dungeon, the same. It would be silly to assume you couldn’t get the next level gear in the previous level, so you can move on, no game does that. Getting the required AR gear in fractals, you would have to get the stuff you need to progress, otherwise you just wouldn’t be able to.

All that is mute really and your implication of treadmill being 5 tiers can assume that a game like vanilla WoW is the same as GW2. GW2 has 8 tiers really if you look at crafting tiers and add in ascended and legendary, which doesn’t even cater to the 3 tiers of race armor. That amount you suggest seems pulled out of air (5 tiers), it’s not about that even, the point was about looks of which some are entirely locked out for players. If i want a priory set on my whispers toon, i’m SoL. There’s also plenty of grindy type activities that are required to get the look you want, it’s simply the fact that in many cases just playing the game doesn’t yield. It’s gotten better for sure, but there are plenty of flaws and those add up, the “paradoxical” farm, don’t farm, feel anet is providing us is just one among many.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

Of course you can’t do Fractal level 20 without AR gear. But the gear you need is found in the fractals itself. You’re not farming the fractals to get to the next dungeon. That’s the difference. The fractals are completely self contained. If you do 10 days of dailies in a row at level 10, you get a ring. So in 20 days of dailies, you can have two rings. You should have enough for a backpiece by then too. So you can to your 20th level fractals without ever leaving the fractal.

More to the point, 20th level fractals is different than other games because players can’t SEE the content at all without gear. For non-competitive PvE types, they can play every single fractal, over and over again if they want, on level 1. They can see all 9 fractals. It’s disingenuous to say they can’t see a fractal level 20. It’s just a variation on a theme. If they want to see it they certainly can. But many people want to just see them a couple of times. and be done with it and you can do that here. You can’t in other games.

A treadmill implies multiple steps not one. At least for or five tiers of gear, not one tier of gear. So yeah, it’s not a treadmill.

My point about fractals has to do with the fact that many of my low fractal level guildies just can’t get a group since they are behind, people tend to play the higher ones now and they simply cannot survive well enough. Same with SouthSun, they get beat down the minute they face the first fight. It’s not as bad as other games sure, auto leveling helps, but they are still behind. The molten dungeon, the same. It would be silly to assume you couldn’t get the next level gear in the previous level, so you can move on, no game does that. Getting the required AR gear in fractals, you would have to get the stuff you need to progress, otherwise you just wouldn’t be able to.

All that is mute really and your implication of treadmill being 5 tiers can assume that a game like vanilla WoW is the same as GW2. GW2 has 8 tiers really if you look at crafting tiers and add in ascended and legendary, which doesn’t even cater to the 3 tiers of race armor. That amount you suggest seems pulled out of air (5 tiers), it’s not about that even, the point was about looks of which some are entirely locked out for players. If i want a priory set on my whispers toon, i’m SoL. There’s also plenty of grindy type activities that are required to get the look you want, it’s simply the fact that in many cases just playing the game doesn’t yield. It’s gotten better for sure, but there are plenty of flaws and those add up, the “paradoxical” farm, don’t farm, feel anet is providing us is just one among many.

Rares are so easy to get, and even exotics, I’m not going to say that Guild Wars 2 has eight tiers of gear to get. If you’re using whites and blues in Orr you’ve done something seriously wrong. Let’s at least be genuine.

Yes, people who haven’t played the fractals need to find groups to farm the fractals to get the gear they need to go harder. But they’d have to play the fractals to learn them anyway. And that’s PRECISELY what the fractals were designed for. Exactly that. Because some people asked for that.

If that’s not your think you don’t have to do it.

Vayne.8563:

Okay Anet designed a game. Obviously there are reasons why things are as they are. They didn’t design the game for no reason. I like them as they are, and you don’t. I can give you examples of how farming has negatively affected my play style. Not a lot of examples, but some for sure.

The whole plinx farm ruined Orr for me completely. This is supposed to be a dangerous place, the culmination of my adventure, the place where Zhaitan hold’s sway. Instead it’s tag as many guys as you can before they fall. Not exactly inspiring. The first time I went to Orr it wasn’t this massively dangerous hell hole. I was a farming location for people who ran the same events over and over again. Do you really think that was Anet’s vision of Orr? Cause I don’t.

I’m not set in my ways. I have a different opinion than you do. That makes you intolerant, not me. I’m happy for you to have your opinion, just as I have every right to share mine.

As for me spending ten hours a day in a game, I don’t see how that’s relevant at all, though you seem fixated on it. Plenty of casual players have agreed with much of what I’ve said. It’s usually the people who take it most seriously who disagree with me.

It’s relevant because it’s altered the way you think. You don’t think doing the same thing 10 hours or more a day for 10 months alters someone? You are intolerant because you can’t see other people’s points of view. Posts like this just show how you really don’t think about others. It could work just fine but you aren’t even willing to listen or try, you would rather shoot down any idea that comes up because it isn’t in your daily rounds or whatever singular schedule you have created for yourself with the game. You have made the game your life and become defensive when people come in to shake up your life with something new. It’s understandable.

TooBz.3065:

Normally I agree with almost everything you say, but here you lost me at saving up to sell Disk. If you have a Dusk to sell then you aren’t in the same class with most people who are complaining about the grind (unless, or course, you saved up the money to buy it in the first place.).

Legendary weapons aside, money will never again be a problem for you in this game. You will be able to buy whatever you want, whenever you want. The problem is that many people aren’t lucky like that.

Not sure what you mean here. Dusk dropped for me from the bonus chest at the SB meta-event in Queensdale on Saturday morning, 6/1/13. At the time I had just spent all my money leveling up a toon via crafting, so while I have an item worth about 600 gold, it will cost 5% (30 gold) to list it for sale. It’s not worth anything if I can’t sell it!

So I’ve been going around to various meta-events, often twice a day, and selling the rares and such to save up 30 gold. And I’ve been playing the TP a little to help it go faster. Once I have the gold I plan to list Dusk for sale and will probably put the money towards buying the precursor for the Juggernaut because I like that weapon much better than Twilight.

Even if I kept the cash, it will cost 90 gold to sell Dusk for 600 gold (30g listing fee + 60g selling fee) leaving a 510 gold profit. It’s a lot of money, yes, but I have 11 characters and in the last few weeks I’ve easily spent 100 gold or more on them. It won’t last forever.

This is just how I approach the game – as a game. I don’t hoard gold because there’s no point to it – I buy gear for the toons I’m currently playing as they level up, and buy crafting mats for extra XP. Only three of the 11 toons have reached max level so far, eventually I’d like at least one of each class. When I need something, like a set of MF-heavy gear for one of the 80s, I go around to the meta-events and bank the gold I get until I have enough for what I want to do.

This is just how I play the game, it doesn’t matter whether the glass is half full or half empty when you can drink it and go back to the tap for more any time you want.

Vayne.8563:

Rares are so easy to get, and even exotics, I’m not going to say that Guild Wars 2 has eight tiers of gear to get. If you’re using whites and blues in Orr you’ve done something seriously wrong. Let’s at least be genuine.

Yes, people who haven’t played the fractals need to find groups to farm the fractals to get the gear they need to go harder. But they’d have to play the fractals to learn them anyway. And that’s PRECISELY what the fractals were designed for. Exactly that. Because some people asked for that.

If that’s not your think you don’t have to do it.

I get it Vayne, i really do, but most of my responses are really about cosmetics, something this game prides itself on being more about than “grinding dungeon content” to get the next tier of gear, it’s really just a horse of a different color. When there are clearly locked out looks, by exuberant time constraints, gold, low drop rates for materials, dungeon requirements, RNG boxes, race and faction choices, those things become more glaring flaws than they are benefits. Yes rares are easy to find, rares of a certain stat combo and look, not so much. I’d actually argue over exotics being just as easy, but let’s face facts, they really aren’t. The only easy exo armor is karma armor and that’s because they added daily and monthly karma jugs. It’s sad too since there are so many possibilities to reward players for doing so many different things, they just kinda keep missing the boat.

I think it’s interesting to think about why things are the way they are. Why is it that someone people, like Vayne, get a random precursor drop within three months of launch, and other people who have been playing for nine months have never seen one.

Is it fair? Clearly not.

In my view, Legendaries are included in the game to give people something to want. Otherwise, they would be easier to obtain. They want you to run in a zerg, see Rainbow arrows and say “I want that.” This works only so long as the quest to get one is long enough that they remain rare, but not so long that people say “kitten this, I’m going to play X”

However, like everything else in life, there is a distribution in terms of how much of this stuff people are willing to take. Some people are on the far end of the spectrum and can wait forever, other people have very little patience (most of them have already left). However, there remains some people who are right on the cusp. It’s almost worth it… or it would be worth it if only things would drop a little more often.

To quote a cowboy junkies song “this weather I could almost stand if the sun would shine a little brighter, or even if the sun would shine at all.”

The people at the cusp are the one’s complaining. And it’s not unreasonable for them to be saying “Hey ArenaNet, how about making this just a little less frustrating”

I’m getting lost in this personal bickering back and forth.

Basically I’m hearing this – some people got lucky but do not care about it anyways. That’s great. Other people don’t get lucky but would care about it and are told not to care about it when they point that out.

I never like the attitude “well if you don’t like it then this game isn’t for you”. While this may be true in essence it’s not very constructive. Stating opinions is one thing, telling others what to do, what to expect or how to behave is another.

Yes we have different backgrounds, different expectations, different experiences. In game and outside of the game. If “you” belong to a big guild and you are online 24/7 your experience will be vastly different from someone that plays mostly alone and perhaps does not want to commit to running dungeons often because that person might not know if he has 2 hours. Unless it’s a CoF 10 minute dungeon.

The way I perceive it – it’s a very bold design (the whole play your way etc). But it still needs to be tweaked to come across in a “fun” way. It just screams too much Economy! Scarcity!

I also don’t understand the notion about “I want to be alone on the map because it’s supposed to be a scary place and not about how many mobs you can tag”. Let me re-phrase, I absolutely understand that notion – but heh, this is the game design – the more the merrier. The solution should not be to make the content less desirable – but to make all the other content equally desirable. Then people can spread out more without feeling cut off and having the need to find the “next best thing”.
Economy! Scarcity!

tolunart.2095:

TooBz.3065:

Normally I agree with almost everything you say, but here you lost me at saving up to sell Disk. If you have a Dusk to sell then you aren’t in the same class with most people who are complaining about the grind (unless, or course, you saved up the money to buy it in the first place.).

Legendary weapons aside, money will never again be a problem for you in this game. You will be able to buy whatever you want, whenever you want. The problem is that many people aren’t lucky like that.

Not sure what you mean here. Dusk dropped for me from the bonus chest at the SB meta-event in Queensdale on Saturday morning, 6/1/13. At the time I had just spent all my money leveling up a toon via crafting, so while I have an item worth about 600 gold, it will cost 5% (30 gold) to list it for sale. It’s not worth anything if I can’t sell it!

So I’ve been going around to various meta-events, often twice a day, and selling the rares and such to save up 30 gold. And I’ve been playing the TP a little to help it go faster. Once I have the gold I plan to list Dusk for sale and will probably put the money towards buying the precursor for the Juggernaut because I like that weapon much better than Twilight.

Even if I kept the cash, it will cost 90 gold to sell Dusk for 600 gold (30g listing fee + 60g selling fee) leaving a 510 gold profit. It’s a lot of money, yes, but I have 11 characters and in the last few weeks I’ve easily spent 100 gold or more on them. It won’t last forever.

This is just how I approach the game – as a game. I don’t hoard gold because there’s no point to it – I buy gear for the toons I’m currently playing as they level up, and buy crafting mats for extra XP. Only three of the 11 toons have reached max level so far, eventually I’d like at least one of each class. When I need something, like a set of MF-heavy gear for one of the 80s, I go around to the meta-events and bank the gold I get until I have enough for what I want to do.

This is just how I play the game, it doesn’t matter whether the glass is half full or half empty when you can drink it and go back to the tap for more any time you want.

Yeah, sometimes I have a problem with clarity. Sorry.

What I meant was (and I’ll adjust this in a minute) that someone with LOTS of money can’t always understand the frustrations of someone with none. It would be like if I said to someone trying to get on Tarnished Coast. “I don’t see why you want to get here. If I weren’t on TC, I would just embrace my other server.” But it’s not necessarily true, because I am on TC. I don’t have the same perspective of someone who is really stuck on a barren server (if one exists).

Now the adjustment: having 11 toons changes EVERYTHING. You don’t have enough money, you will never have enough money. I recant my statement. If you had 1 main then you’d be set, but like me you appear to be an Alt-a-holic. (9 toons, 6 level 80).

munkiman.3068:

I get it Vayne, i really do, but most of my responses are really about cosmetics, something this game prides itself on being more about than “grinding dungeon content” to get the next tier of gear, it’s really just a horse of a different color. When there are clearly locked out looks, by exuberant time constraints, gold, low drop rates for materials, dungeon requirements, RNG boxes, race and faction choices, those things become more glaring flaws than they are benefits. Yes rares are easy to find, rares of a certain stat combo and look, not so much. I’d actually argue over exotics being just as easy, but let’s face facts, they really aren’t. The only easy exo armor is karma armor and that’s because they added daily and monthly karma jugs. It’s sad too since there are so many possibilities to reward players for doing so many different things, they just kinda keep missing the boat.

Why is having a goal to work towards such a problem? I don’t much like the “I’m on fire!” armor you used to see everyone wearing, but if I wanted a set then I’d run the dungeon required for it until I had enough tokens to get the armor. And using transmute stones you can put the appearance onto any item with the right stat combo you want.

Is there some reason why you can’t do this with the Order armors? Someone mentioned not being able to wear Whispers armor, why can’t you level an alt, choose the Order of Whispers, and transmute the armor onto a set of whites and then onto your main’s armor?

The only thing that’s actually difficult to get within the game are the lottery box skins, and let’s face it, a year from now no one’s going to care whether you have a Fused greatsword or not. Every month or two there’s a new “cool stuff” skin to go after, and they also offer skins through other means. I see a lot less SAB weapon skins now, just a month after they were so popular, and in another month I’m sure there will be another fad that everyone wants to wear.

It really is a generational thing, I’m 42 and I understand where Vayne is coming from. Our experiences in the game are very similar, in part because we enjoy the game for what it is instead of demanding that it become what we want it to be. Ten, fifteen years ago I played Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate over and over with different characters, different mods, etc. because I liked the games, not because I could make people jealous of me because I had the best loots. I play this game because I like it, and if I didn’t like it then I wouldn’t hesitate to play a different game. But I certainly wouldn’t demand that the devs twist the game into something that I want because I don’t like the game they made.

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

I get it Vayne, i really do, but most of my responses are really about cosmetics, something this game prides itself on being more about than “grinding dungeon content” to get the next tier of gear, it’s really just a horse of a different color. When there are clearly locked out looks, by exuberant time constraints, gold, low drop rates for materials, dungeon requirements, RNG boxes, race and faction choices, those things become more glaring flaws than they are benefits. Yes rares are easy to find, rares of a certain stat combo and look, not so much. I’d actually argue over exotics being just as easy, but let’s face facts, they really aren’t. The only easy exo armor is karma armor and that’s because they added daily and monthly karma jugs. It’s sad too since there are so many possibilities to reward players for doing so many different things, they just kinda keep missing the boat.

Why is having a goal to work towards such a problem? I don’t much like the “I’m on fire!” armor you used to see everyone wearing, but if I wanted a set then I’d run the dungeon required for it until I had enough tokens to get the armor. And using transmute stones you can put the appearance onto any item with the right stat combo you want.

Is there some reason why you can’t do this with the Order armors? Someone mentioned not being able to wear Whispers armor, why can’t you level an alt, choose the Order of Whispers, and transmute the armor onto a set of whites and then onto your main’s armor?

The only thing that’s actually difficult to get within the game are the lottery box skins, and let’s face it, a year from now no one’s going to care whether you have a Fused greatsword or not. Every month or two there’s a new “cool stuff” skin to go after, and they also offer skins through other means. I see a lot less SAB weapon skins now, just a month after they were so popular, and in another month I’m sure there will be another fad that everyone wants to wear.

It really is a generational thing, I’m 42 and I understand where Vayne is coming from. Our experiences in the game are very similar, in part because we enjoy the game for what it is instead of demanding that it become what we want it to be. Ten, fifteen years ago I played Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate over and over with different characters, different mods, etc. because I liked the games, not because I could make people jealous of me because I had the best loots. I play this game because I like it, and if I didn’t like it then I wouldn’t hesitate to play a different game. But I certainly wouldn’t demand that the devs twist the game into something that I want because I don’t like the game they made.

I do understand where you are coming from, but the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate bit just reminds me that those are RPG’s and this game is an MMO. MMO’s must evolve over time or they stagnate and shut down. If it stays the exact same with no improvements to gameplay or goals for players to work for the next 5 years, do you think this will still be considered a AAA MMO that everyone wants to play?

We are not asking them to remake the game in our image. We are asking them to let the game naturally evolve and add things to the game. Give us more options, don’t take away our options. The evolution over time of games like WoW, Rift, EQ2, EQ1, any game really that has been around for more than a year or so, is what kept the game strong and alive. If WoW was still vanilla WoW, even as much as people talk about how awesome it was, I highly doubt 10 million people would still be playing it. The game evolved, and retained and gained players over the years because it knew it couldn’t stay the same forever and stagnate.

I’m not asking for a WoW style gear treadmill. I’m not asking for a farming grinder like Lineage 2. I’m asking for GW2 to evolve naturally over the course of it’s life cycle instead of stagnating years before it’s time.

Letting the players set goals and being to achieve them realistically, whether it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, is all that I want for this game. There is no need to invalidate someone’s time spent in game with a random number algorithm hellbent on making your experience painful.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Okay Anet designed a game. Obviously there are reasons why things are as they are. They didn’t design the game for no reason. I like them as they are, and you don’t. I can give you examples of how farming has negatively affected my play style. Not a lot of examples, but some for sure.

The whole plinx farm ruined Orr for me completely. This is supposed to be a dangerous place, the culmination of my adventure, the place where Zhaitan hold’s sway. Instead it’s tag as many guys as you can before they fall. Not exactly inspiring. The first time I went to Orr it wasn’t this massively dangerous hell hole. I was a farming location for people who ran the same events over and over again. Do you really think that was Anet’s vision of Orr? Cause I don’t.

I’m not set in my ways. I have a different opinion than you do. That makes you intolerant, not me. I’m happy for you to have your opinion, just as I have every right to share mine.

As for me spending ten hours a day in a game, I don’t see how that’s relevant at all, though you seem fixated on it. Plenty of casual players have agreed with much of what I’ve said. It’s usually the people who take it most seriously who disagree with me.

It’s relevant because it’s altered the way you think. You don’t think doing the same thing 10 hours or more a day for 10 months alters someone? You are intolerant because you can’t see other people’s points of view. Posts like this just show how you really don’t think about others. It could work just fine but you aren’t even willing to listen or try, you would rather shoot down any idea that comes up because it isn’t in your daily rounds or whatever singular schedule you have created for yourself with the game. You have made the game your life and become defensive when people come in to shake up your life with something new. It’s understandable.

I see others points of view more than most people see mine. I often start posts with I understand what you’re saying, and I do. But farming the way people farm doesn’t help the over all game. In fact, the game was designed to be some sort of living world immersive experience and farming the same events over and over just goes counter to that.

Now I’m not saying that farming is evil and I never had. I am saying it can have a negative affect, as in my earlier example in Orr. Over all, I’ve been far more reasonable in my responses than those who attack me.

You don’t see it because you disagree with me, but it doesn’t make it less true.

And, yes, I have been critical of this game, verbally on the forums. How do you account for that?

TooBz.3065:

Yeah, sometimes I have a problem with clarity. Sorry.

What I meant was (and I’ll adjust this in a minute) that someone with LOTS of money can’t always understand the frustrations of someone with none. It would be like if I said to someone trying to get on Tarnished Coast. “I don’t see why you want to get here. If I weren’t on TC, I would just embrace my other server.” But it’s not necessarily true, because I am on TC. I don’t have the same perspective of someone who is really stuck on a barren server (if one exists).

Now the adjustment: having 11 toons changes EVERYTHING. You don’t have enough money, you will never have enough money. I recant my statement. If you had 1 main then you’d be set, but like me you appear to be an Alt-a-holic. (9 toons, 6 level 80).

No problem, you’re willing to communicate rather than ignore anything that doesn’t fit your preconceptions.

Yeah, definitely an altaholic, I get bored doing the same thing over and over again, which is why I don’t farm. It would bore me to tears to stand on a hill and kill ettins (or whatever) over and over for hours, just because they drop a certain kind of loot.

Granted, the meta-events aren’t great fun either, but most of them last only a few minutes and they are a means to an end. How often I do them depends on how much money I want to spend on X. So I can live with it.

And having too much money isn’t fun, either. Rift was my first MMO, and I played it off and on for two years. At first it was challenging because I also played several different toons, in different factions and on different servers. I made enough money to get by through collecting “artifacts” – collectible fluff items that spawned randomly throughout the world. Wandering around the game world in off-peak hours I’d usually find several an hour, and sell them for a good bit of coin in the open market.

Eventually I had a few max-level toons and wanted better gear for them, so I learned how to play the market. I’d buy crafting mats and items (mostly mid-range bags, which were always in demand) on one server, scout out a server where they sold for 2x to 5x what I bought them for, and transfer there to sell them. Each toon could transfer once per week for free, so every week I’d shuffle the toons around and continue the process. After a couple of months I’d doubled my money several times over and could do so indefinitely, but I realized that I was playing the TP more than I was playing the game, and it wasn’t fun any more.

So I moved on. It’s going free to play, and I could probably log in again and resume playing with thousands in coin and buy whatever gear I wanted, but I don’t feel like it. So, yeah, sometimes you can have too much money.

Aeonblade.8709:

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

I get it Vayne, i really do, but most of my responses are really about cosmetics, something this game prides itself on being more about than “grinding dungeon content” to get the next tier of gear, it’s really just a horse of a different color. When there are clearly locked out looks, by exuberant time constraints, gold, low drop rates for materials, dungeon requirements, RNG boxes, race and faction choices, those things become more glaring flaws than they are benefits. Yes rares are easy to find, rares of a certain stat combo and look, not so much. I’d actually argue over exotics being just as easy, but let’s face facts, they really aren’t. The only easy exo armor is karma armor and that’s because they added daily and monthly karma jugs. It’s sad too since there are so many possibilities to reward players for doing so many different things, they just kinda keep missing the boat.

Why is having a goal to work towards such a problem? I don’t much like the “I’m on fire!” armor you used to see everyone wearing, but if I wanted a set then I’d run the dungeon required for it until I had enough tokens to get the armor. And using transmute stones you can put the appearance onto any item with the right stat combo you want.

Is there some reason why you can’t do this with the Order armors? Someone mentioned not being able to wear Whispers armor, why can’t you level an alt, choose the Order of Whispers, and transmute the armor onto a set of whites and then onto your main’s armor?

The only thing that’s actually difficult to get within the game are the lottery box skins, and let’s face it, a year from now no one’s going to care whether you have a Fused greatsword or not. Every month or two there’s a new “cool stuff” skin to go after, and they also offer skins through other means. I see a lot less SAB weapon skins now, just a month after they were so popular, and in another month I’m sure there will be another fad that everyone wants to wear.

It really is a generational thing, I’m 42 and I understand where Vayne is coming from. Our experiences in the game are very similar, in part because we enjoy the game for what it is instead of demanding that it become what we want it to be. Ten, fifteen years ago I played Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate over and over with different characters, different mods, etc. because I liked the games, not because I could make people jealous of me because I had the best loots. I play this game because I like it, and if I didn’t like it then I wouldn’t hesitate to play a different game. But I certainly wouldn’t demand that the devs twist the game into something that I want because I don’t like the game they made.

I do understand where you are coming from, but the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate bit just reminds me that those are RPG’s and this game is an MMO. MMO’s must evolve over time or they stagnate and shut down. If it stays the exact same with no improvements to gameplay or goals for players to work for the next 5 years, do you think this will still be considered a AAA MMO that everyone wants to play?

We are not asking them to remake the game in our image. We are asking them to let the game naturally evolve and add things to the game. Give us more options, don’t take away our options. The evolution over time of games like WoW, Rift, EQ2, EQ1, any game really that has been around for more than a year or so, is what kept the game strong and alive. If WoW was still vanilla WoW, even as much as people talk about how awesome it was, I highly doubt 10 million people would still be playing it. The game evolved, and retained and gained players over the years because it knew it couldn’t stay the same forever and stagnate.

I’m not asking for a WoW style gear treadmill. I’m not asking for a farming grinder like Lineage 2. I’m asking for GW2 to evolve naturally over the course of it’s life cycle instead of stagnating years before it’s time.

Letting the players set goals and being to achieve them realistically, whether it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, is all that I want for this game. There is no need to invalidate someone’s time spent in game with a random number algorithm hellbent on making your experience painful.

Ten million people aren’t playing it. There are only 8.3 million active subs left. That means 1.7 million people’s subs have ended since the last quarter, but I get your point. You don’t seem to get mine.

There are tons of “those games” out there. Tons. Some of us came here to get away from those games and this remains pretty much our only option…at least for now.

So when someone tries to take my only option away from me, of course I’m going to respond.

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Okay Anet designed a game. Obviously there are reasons why things are as they are. They didn’t design the game for no reason. I like them as they are, and you don’t. I can give you examples of how farming has negatively affected my play style. Not a lot of examples, but some for sure.

The whole plinx farm ruined Orr for me completely. This is supposed to be a dangerous place, the culmination of my adventure, the place where Zhaitan hold’s sway. Instead it’s tag as many guys as you can before they fall. Not exactly inspiring. The first time I went to Orr it wasn’t this massively dangerous hell hole. I was a farming location for people who ran the same events over and over again. Do you really think that was Anet’s vision of Orr? Cause I don’t.

I’m not set in my ways. I have a different opinion than you do. That makes you intolerant, not me. I’m happy for you to have your opinion, just as I have every right to share mine.

As for me spending ten hours a day in a game, I don’t see how that’s relevant at all, though you seem fixated on it. Plenty of casual players have agreed with much of what I’ve said. It’s usually the people who take it most seriously who disagree with me.

It’s relevant because it’s altered the way you think. You don’t think doing the same thing 10 hours or more a day for 10 months alters someone? You are intolerant because you can’t see other people’s points of view. Posts like this just show how you really don’t think about others. It could work just fine but you aren’t even willing to listen or try, you would rather shoot down any idea that comes up because it isn’t in your daily rounds or whatever singular schedule you have created for yourself with the game. You have made the game your life and become defensive when people come in to shake up your life with something new. It’s understandable.

I see others points of view more than most people see mine. I often start posts with I understand what you’re saying, and I do. But farming the way people farm doesn’t help the over all game. In fact, the game was designed to be some sort of living world immersive experience and farming the same events over and over just goes counter to that.

Now I’m not saying that farming is evil and I never had. I am saying it can have a negative affect, as in my earlier example in Orr. Over all, I’ve been far more reasonable in my responses than those who attack me.

You don’t see it because you disagree with me, but it doesn’t make it less true.

And, yes, I have been critical of this game, verbally on the forums. How do you account for that?

Starting a post off with “I understand what you are saying” does not validate anything. I say that too, but it’s still just an opening sentence that a lot of people use to start a new diatribe. Do you really understand or is that just an opening sentence for you?

As far as people attacking you, what you view as attacks is our frustration with your inability to acknowledge that there is a problem in the game for people who want a return investment on their time spent in game. You don’t understand this because it’s not how you play. That’s fair. I don’t understand your point of view either, at all. But coming in every thread that pops up with this tone saying we are all wrong and should play another game comes off as arrogant and sloppy. I will never understand the view of someone who wishes ill toward others or shoots other people down simply because their beliefs do not coincide with their own. There are plenty of threads on this page alone talking about how good the game is.

Wouldn’t you be happier in those threads rather than coming in here just to pick a fight and tell everyone here they are wrong?

Ten million people aren’t playing it. There are only 8.3 million active subs left. That means 1.7 million people’s subs have ended since the last quarter, but I get your point. You don’t seem to get mine.

There are tons of “those games” out there. Tons. Some of us came here to get away from those games and this remains pretty much our only option…at least for now.

So when someone tries to take my only option away from me, of course I’m going to respond.

The point was not even 8.3 million would be playing it if it hadn’t evolved over time. The number 8.3 or 10 is irrelevant, it could be 100 million for all I care. The point is the game is still alive for a reason, and it has nothing to do with gear treadmills.

Why is having a goal to work towards such a problem? I don’t much like the “I’m on fire!” armor you used to see everyone wearing, but if I wanted a set then I’d run the dungeon required for it until I had enough tokens to get the armor. And using transmute stones you can put the appearance onto any item with the right stat combo you want.

Nothing wrong with goals, not at all, not even long term goals. However as i mentioned there are other problems with the game that make it less enjoyable, so those goals, after awhile start to feel grindy. Transmute stones are nice, sure, but they do require acquiring 2 sets of armor. A suggestion os having a locker to store these looks or actually make crafting more useful and be able to craft a skins and stat it the way you want would be nicer.

Is there some reason why you can’t do this with the Order armors? Someone mentioned not being able to wear Whispers armor, why can’t you level an alt, choose the Order of Whispers, and transmute the armor onto a set of whites and then onto your main’s armor?

Unless they changed something since i last tried it, this doesn’t work. Not between toons, that whole soulbound thing.

The only thing that’s actually difficult to get within the game are the lottery box skins, and let’s face it, a year from now no one’s going to care whether you have a Fused greatsword or not. Every month or two there’s a new “cool stuff” skin to go after, and they also offer skins through other means. I see a lot less SAB weapon skins now, just a month after they were so popular, and in another month I’m sure there will be another fad that everyone wants to wear.

It really is a generational thing, I’m 42 and I understand where Vayne is coming from. Our experiences in the game are very similar, in part because we enjoy the game for what it is instead of demanding that it become what we want it to be. Ten, fifteen years ago I played Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate over and over with different characters, different mods, etc. because I liked the games, not because I could make people jealous of me because I had the best loots. I play this game because I like it, and if I didn’t like it then I wouldn’t hesitate to play a different game. But I certainly wouldn’t demand that the devs twist the game into something that *I want because I don’t like the game they made.*

I understand him too, we were talking about 2 different things (horizontal and vertical progression). I’m 43 BTW. I’m not looking for fast rewards, i’m looking for more fun things that are rewarding. As i said they are getting there, but it still feels pretty grindy in a lot of ways, so i get the complaints too. I’m not looking to make people jealous, but if i want a look that’s gated behind content i really don’t enjoy, it’d be nice to have options.

Aeonblade.8709:

Letting the players set goals and being to achieve them realistically, whether it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, is all that I want for this game. There is no need to invalidate someone’s time spent in game with a random number algorithm hellbent on making your experience painful.

You’re in luck! This is the way I play the game, and it’s already set up to support my style of play.

Every RPG I’ve ever played, whether SP or MMO, is based on random drops. That’s not going to change. But RNG is the very essence of fairness, everyone in the game has the same chance that a particular item is going to drop, every time they are in that situation. The key is just to keep playing the game and don’t worry about it.

I didn’t do anything special to get Dusk. I didn’t look for it, didn’t expect it, and didn’t want it. I didn’t send the devs a bribe to get it, I didn’t perform a voodoo ritual, I didn’t do anything, it just happened.

Just play the game, everything will come to you in time.

tolunart.2095:

Aeonblade.8709:

Letting the players set goals and being to achieve them realistically, whether it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, is all that I want for this game. There is no need to invalidate someone’s time spent in game with a random number algorithm hellbent on making your experience painful.

You’re in luck! This is the way I play the game, and it’s already set up to support my style of play.

Every RPG I’ve ever played, whether SP or MMO, is based on random drops. That’s not going to change. But RNG is the very essence of fairness, everyone in the game has the same chance that a particular item is going to drop, every time they are in that situation. The key is just to keep playing the game and don’t worry about it.

I didn’t do anything special to get Dusk. I didn’t look for it, didn’t expect it, and didn’t want it. I didn’t send the devs a bribe to get it, I didn’t perform a voodoo ritual, I didn’t do anything, it just happened.

Just play the game, everything will come to you in time.

For some people it will never come in time, and that is the problem I have the most beef with so to speak. There is nothing wrong with having loot tables and randomization in loot, as long as you DO get the loot eventually. What I’m looking to fix is the fact that for a lot of us, we will quit and move on before we ever see anything because we could play 300 hours or 3000 hours and get the same rewards.

There is a fine line, and balance on this line has not yet been achieved in GW2.

Grats on dusk by the way

munkiman.3068:

Nothing wrong with goals, not at all, not even long term goals. However as i mentioned there are other problems with the game that make it less enjoyable, so those goals, after awhile start to feel grindy. Transmute stones are nice, sure, but they do require acquiring 2 sets of armor. A suggestion os having a locker to store these looks or actually make crafting more useful and be able to craft a skins and stat it the way you want would be nicer.

Unless they changed something since i last tried it, this doesn’t work. Not between toons, that whole soulbound thing.

I understand him too, we were talking about 2 different things (horizontal and vertical progression). I’m 43 BTW. I’m not looking for fast rewards, i’m looking for more fun things that are rewarding. As i said they are getting there, but it still feels pretty grindy in a lot of ways, so i get the complaints too. I’m not looking to make people jealous, but if i want a look that’s gated behind content i really don’t enjoy, it’d be nice to have options.

Transmute stones onto “whites” make items account bound, not soulbound. I used this method to transfer the (previously soulbound) Necro “ghost eyes” to a Mesmer. I haven’t tried it with Orders armor, but it seems like this should be possible.

Otherwise, it’s just a matter of perspective. I see long-term goals where you see grind. You have plenty of options, in fact I’ve bought high-level gear from the TP because I like the look and transmuted them onto the armor of a level 2 toon. It’s not that hard to find a look you like, the only problem is that if you want that suit of armor you need to do what you need to do in order to get it. If you don’t want to do that, you have a dozen other options to choose from, most of them cost about 2 silver on the TP.

Post the bit about changing stats on crafted armor in the Suggestions forum. At this point it’s unlikely they are going to change the system, but you can make the suggestion.

KorbanDallas.7389:

They get focused so much on this one mechanic that all of a sudden they can’t have fun – and the biggest part of a MMO to me, is the fun you create for yourself by playing with people (otherwise I wouldn’t need to be online).

+1’d for that right there.

tolunart.2095:

Transmute stones onto “whites” make items account bound, not soulbound. I used this method to transfer the (previously soulbound) Necro “ghost eyes” to a Mesmer. I haven’t tried it with Orders armor, but it seems like this should be possible.

You can do that? Score, Skoryy can get his headband back now. Thanks for the tip!

Aeonblade.8709:

The point was not even 8.3 million would be playing it if it hadn’t evolved over time. The number 8.3 or 10 is irrelevant, it could be 100 million for all I care. The point is the game is still alive for a reason, and it has nothing to do with gear treadmills.

Oh, I know why people play WoW, and it’s not because they’re having fun. It’s the video game equivalent of Magic: the Gathering, which has been called “cardboard crack.” Many millions of people are addicted to drugs and alcohol, too, but it’s not because they are good for you.

WoW was designed to keep people involved in the game, and for many it’s a compulsion, not relaxation. And even then, it’s dying a slow death.

Uruz Six.6594:

tolunart.2095:

Transmute stones onto “whites” make items account bound, not soulbound. I used this method to transfer the (previously soulbound) Necro “ghost eyes” to a Mesmer. I haven’t tried it with Orders armor, but it seems like this should be possible.

You can do that? Score, Skoryy can get his headband back now. Thanks for the tip!

Now, I believe if you transmute something with an Upgrade slot filled, it will remain soulbound. I use a 0-level piece of gear that doesn’t have an Upgrade slot (or has an empty slot), so you end up with a basic piece of equipment with the skin you want to use.

Aeonblade.8709:

Starting a post off with “I understand what you are saying” does not validate anything. I say that too, but it’s still just an opening sentence that a lot of people use to start a new diatribe. Do you really understand or is that just an opening sentence for you?

As far as people attacking you, what you view as attacks is our frustration with your inability to acknowledge that there is a problem in the game for people who want a return investment on their time spent in game. You don’t understand this because it’s not how you play. That’s fair. I don’t understand your point of view either, at all. But coming in every thread that pops up with this tone saying we are all wrong and should play another game comes off as arrogant and sloppy. I will never understand the view of someone who wishes ill toward others or shoots other people down simply because their beliefs do not coincide with their own. There are plenty of threads on this page alone talking about how good the game is.

Wouldn’t you be happier in those threads rather than coming in here just to pick a fight and tell everyone here they are wrong?

First of all, if I say I understand than I understand. The farming point of view…not really that hard to understand. It’s actually quite easy to understand why people would want more wealth faster. I’m not sure what’s not to understand there. When I say I understand, I say it because it’s true.

Secondly, point to where I said you’re all wrong. Just once. Or are you inferring something I’m not saying?

This game was designed by Anet. It wasn’t designed by Blizzard or Trion. I believe that I understand what Anet is trying to do with the game. Obviously if the game was really off target from what they were trying to do they’d do something different.

I never walked into a boxing gym and said we shouldn’t hit each other. I’m saying that the company is doing stuff for a reason. That reason is to preserve their vision of their game.

If I went into the WoW forums and said this game shouldn’t have raids, I’d be laughed out of existence. But I can say that here. Because I believe the devs have similar visions to my vision of what an MMO can be. It’s obviously not your vision.

Anet has said they’re excited about the prospect of a living world. This the what they’re offering as their main way forward. Some people like it, and some people don’t.

But the people that come here and complain about end game (in a game that was basically advertising no end game), well, they’re trying to play a different game, one not designed by Anet, in this game.

I never said you were wrong. I never really say anyone is wrong. But I do think people are looking to make this game something Anet doesn’t want to make it. And since I want the game Anet is making, I’ll say so.

It’s nothing to do with you being wrong and me being right. It has to do with me seeing where Anet is going. I trust their vision. So far, they’ve made the first MMO I could stick with for more than three or four months.

What do you think I should do? Tell them to compromise it if I agree with what they’d done?

pricer.5091:

Marxo.3829:

I’m going to put this really simply.

Other games: you literally have to grind to see new content or else your gear is not powerful enough to do the content.

GW2: Zero, none, nada need to grind to see all content in the game. Nearly max stat gear is extremely easy to get.

I’ll put this really simply, you are right, you can experience all the content in the game without the cosmetic gear. But then what do you do? Do it all again? How many times do you do that?

Till anothergame comes out?
Answer = yes

Without a purpose (advancement in power / skills or vanity items). There literally is no game. Never mind end-game.

So is this really meant to be a play-through once or maybe twice if you have an alt you can actually be bothered to level without crafting it to 80? Until the next expansion comes out maybe? Or wait, there is living story…which so far every time it was added took me less then two hours to finish and then wait a month for the next two hours worth?

Meh. Bored senseless.

I never thought I’d see the day when someone was complaining that a game didn’t outright waste their time and didn’t force them to keep playing long after they’ve exhausted all the content, but then here you are. Honestly I’m starting to think liking MMORPGs is a form of mental illness. Or at least in the case of liking “traditional” progression based MMORPGs.

Aeonblade.8709:

For some people it will never come in time, and that is the problem I have the most beef with so to speak. There is nothing wrong with having loot tables and randomization in loot, as long as you DO get the loot eventually. What I’m looking to fix is the fact that for a lot of us, we will quit and move on before we ever see anything because we could play 300 hours or 3000 hours and get the same rewards.

There is a fine line, and balance on this line has not yet been achieved in GW2.

Grats on dusk by the way

(thanx)

So, you’ll quit because RNG is random? Okay, bye.

That’s how the game works. I don’t play the lottery because I could buy a Powerball ticket every week for 50 years and never win the jackpot. But, you know what? If I was guaranteed a jackpot within 1000 tickets, I’d buy 1000 tickets in a month, collect my winnings, and never play again. Anyone with an ounce of sense would do the same.

You make the choice to play the game or not. If the only reason you would play is because you’re guaranteed to get BIS gear when you hit 1000 hours played, then this is the wrong game to play.

Arkham Creed.7358:

I never thought I’d see the day when someone was complaining that a game didn’t outright waste their time and didn’t force them to keep playing long after they’ve exhausted all the content, but then here you are. Honestly I’m starting to think liking MMORPGs is a form of mental illness. Or at least in the case of liking “traditional” progression based MMORPGs.

Not the games themselves, but the motivation for some to continue playing long after the thrill is gone is a form of mental illness. I’m no psychologist, but it’s something like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Obsessive Gear Disorder?

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Starting a post off with “I understand what you are saying” does not validate anything. I say that too, but it’s still just an opening sentence that a lot of people use to start a new diatribe. Do you really understand or is that just an opening sentence for you?

As far as people attacking you, what you view as attacks is our frustration with your inability to acknowledge that there is a problem in the game for people who want a return investment on their time spent in game. You don’t understand this because it’s not how you play. That’s fair. I don’t understand your point of view either, at all. But coming in every thread that pops up with this tone saying we are all wrong and should play another game comes off as arrogant and sloppy. I will never understand the view of someone who wishes ill toward others or shoots other people down simply because their beliefs do not coincide with their own. There are plenty of threads on this page alone talking about how good the game is.

Wouldn’t you be happier in those threads rather than coming in here just to pick a fight and tell everyone here they are wrong?

First of all, if I say I understand than I understand. The farming point of view…not really that hard to understand. It’s actually quite easy to understand why people would want more wealth faster. I’m not sure what’s not to understand there. When I say I understand, I say it because it’s true.

Secondly, point to where I said you’re all wrong. Just once. Or are you inferring something I’m not saying?

This game was designed by Anet. It wasn’t designed by Blizzard or Trion. I believe that I understand what Anet is trying to do with the game. Obviously if the game was really off target from what they were trying to do they’d do something different.

I never walked into a boxing gym and said we shouldn’t hit each other. I’m saying that the company is doing stuff for a reason. That reason is to preserve their vision of their game.

If I went into the WoW forums and said this game shouldn’t have raids, I’d be laughed out of existence. But I can say that here. Because I believe the devs have similar visions to my vision of what an MMO can be. It’s obviously not your vision.

Anet has said they’re excited about the prospect of a living world. This the what they’re offering as their main way forward. Some people like it, and some people don’t.

But the people that come here and complain about end game (in a game that was basically advertising no end game), well, they’re trying to play a different game, one not designed by Anet, in this game.

I never said you were wrong. I never really say anyone is wrong. But I do think people are looking to make this game something Anet doesn’t want to make it. And since I want the game Anet is making, I’ll say so.

It’s nothing to do with you being wrong and me being right. It has to do with me seeing where Anet is going. I trust their vision. So far, they’ve made the first MMO I could stick with for more than three or four months.

What do you think I should do? Tell them to compromise it if I agree with what they’d done?

This is a really long post for “I do not understand” if you think the point is more wealth faster. I’m pretty much done with this conversation again Vayne, it always ends in you talking in circles saying you understand something when you clearly do not and have no desire to.

The WoW no raid thing isn’t even in the same class of comparison, because Blizzard didn’t build a system where you have to raid to get the best gear, then turn around not put in raids in the game. That would be what you are saying.

Anet built a game around farming, and then punish players for killing monsters to farm. Blizzard has not released a raid yet that I know of that drops no loot. There is always something. Yes, it may be that kitten paladin 1hb once again for the third week in a row, but something at least dropped. That’s where they got random right. Even if it isn’t what you wanted, there is a reward for playing at some point. Would people raid in WoW if they had a chance to get no items at all from clearing the hardest content in the game for months on end?

I’m not defending WoW by any means, I can’t stand the way the game is set up now, but you can’t tell me it’s even the same thing, much less comparable.

tolunart.2095:

Transmute stones onto “whites” make items account bound, not soulbound. I used this method to transfer the (previously soulbound) Necro “ghost eyes” to a Mesmer. I haven’t tried it with Orders armor, but it seems like this should be possible.

Otherwise, it’s just a matter of perspective. I see long-term goals where you see grind. You have plenty of options, in fact I’ve bought high-level gear from the TP because I like the look and transmuted them onto the armor of a level 2 toon. It’s not that hard to find a look you like, the only problem is that if you want that suit of armor you need to do what you need to do in order to get it. If you don’t want to do that, you have a dozen other options to choose from, most of them cost about 2 silver on the TP.

Post the bit about changing stats on crafted armor in the Suggestions forum. At this point it’s unlikely they are going to change the system, but you can make the suggestion.

I’ll have to look into the transmutation thing again, although it does seem ridiculous to buy 12 transmutation stones just to do that. I forget what level the armor if, but if it’s 80 that would be all fine transmute stones. Oh well.

I didn’t used to see it as a grind, but they keep implementing changes that make it feel that way more and more. After 2.5 months my wife is still working on t6 mats for the lover. At the point she started working on it, it seemed like that least problematic to acquire. It’s much worse now.

I did post it in suggestions along with a few other things.

munkiman.3068:

I’ll have to look into the transmutation thing again, although it does seem ridiculous to buy 12 transmutation stones just to do that. I forget what level the armor if, but if it’s 80 that would be all fine transmute stones. Oh well.

Yeah, it’s a bother, but it’s a business. They sell the stones for real money, it wouldn’t work out so well if there was nothing to use them on. But at least I can save up some gold for a few weeks to do it.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

snip

Wouldn’t you be happier in those threads rather than coming in here just to pick a fight and tell everyone here they are wrong?

First of all, if I say I understand than I understand. The farming point of view…not really that hard to understand. It’s actually quite easy to understand why people would want more wealth faster. I’m not sure what’s not to understand there. When I say I understand, I say it because it’s true.

Secondly, point to where I said you’re all wrong. Just once. Or are you inferring something I’m not saying?

This game was designed by Anet. It wasn’t designed by Blizzard or Trion. I believe that I understand what Anet is trying to do with the game. Obviously if the game was really off target from what they were trying to do they’d do something different.

I never walked into a boxing gym and said we shouldn’t hit each other. I’m saying that the company is doing stuff for a reason. That reason is to preserve their vision of their game.

If I went into the WoW forums and said this game shouldn’t have raids, I’d be laughed out of existence. But I can say that here. Because I believe the devs have similar visions to my vision of what an MMO can be. It’s obviously not your vision.

Anet has said they’re excited about the prospect of a living world. This the what they’re offering as their main way forward. Some people like it, and some people don’t.

But the people that come here and complain about end game (in a game that was basically advertising no end game), well, they’re trying to play a different game, one not designed by Anet, in this game.

I never said you were wrong. I never really say anyone is wrong. But I do think people are looking to make this game something Anet doesn’t want to make it. And since I want the game Anet is making, I’ll say so.

It’s nothing to do with you being wrong and me being right. It has to do with me seeing where Anet is going. I trust their vision. So far, they’ve made the first MMO I could stick with for more than three or four months.

What do you think I should do? Tell them to compromise it if I agree with what they’d done?

This is a really long post for “I do not understand” if you think the point is more wealth faster. I’m pretty much done with this conversation again Vayne, it always ends in you talking in circles saying you understand something when you clearly do not and have no desire to.

The WoW no raid thing isn’t even in the same class of comparison, because Blizzard didn’t build a system where you have to raid to get the best gear, then turn around not put in raids in the game. That would be what you are saying.

Anet built a game around farming, and then punish players for killing monsters to farm. Blizzard has not released a raid yet that I know of that drops no loot. There is always something. Yes, it may be that kitten paladin 1hb once again for the third week in a row, but something at least dropped. That’s where they got random right. Even if it isn’t what you wanted, there is a reward for playing at some point. Would people raid in WoW if they had a chance to get no items at all from clearing the hardest content in the game for months on end?

I’m not defending WoW by any means, I can’t stand the way the game is set up now, but you can’t tell me it’s even the same thing, much less comparable.

It works the same way. If you can farm more efficiently you can get your stuff faster. That’s really the argument.

Anet made a game with a weapon that takes a year or two to get, unless you’re lucky. You don’t like that it was designed that way, and that’s fine. But it’s how it was designed. It was meant to take a year.

Some people don’t have patience and blow real money on gems to sell for gold so they can buy mats or a precusor. Some people like gambling, even if they’re losing, they live in hope. Me, I just play.

I’m not saying farming can or can’t be tweaked. I’m saying, first that I don’t experience the lack of the ability to make money that some people do, and second that farming to get your legendary means you’re focused on a legendary as if it’s the only thing that matters in the game. It matters to you. Though I have one it matters very little to me. I don’t care about it. I’m not interested in it. It’s not why I play MMOs.

You’re focused, driven by this idea of I must have a legendary and it’s ruining the game for you. I’m sorry that that’s the case, but it IS the case. Because if you didn’t care, the game is the same game.

Of course, if you don’t like other things about the game that’s another story.

Vayne.8563:

It works the same way. If you can farm more efficiently you can get your stuff faster. That’s really the argument.

Anet made a game with a weapon that takes a year or two to get, unless you’re lucky. You don’t like that it was designed that way, and that’s fine. But it’s how it was designed. It was meant to take a year.

Some people don’t have patience and blow real money on gems to sell for gold so they can buy mats or a precusor. Some people like gambling, even if they’re losing, they live in hope. Me, I just play.

I’m not saying farming can or can’t be tweaked. I’m saying, first that I don’t experience the lack of the ability to make money that some people do, and second that farming to get your legendary means you’re focused on a legendary as if it’s the only thing that matters in the game. It matters to you. Though I have one it matters very little to me. I don’t care about it. I’m not interested in it. It’s not why I play MMOs.

You’re focused, driven by this idea of I must have a legendary and it’s ruining the game for you. I’m sorry that that’s the case, but it IS the case. Because if you didn’t care, the game is the same game.

Of course, if you don’t like other things about the game that’s another story.

You still are not getting it. I’m not even trying to get a legendary, and I don’t have a desire too, because I may or may not ever be able to based off of purely luck.

I can literally think of no other way to explain to you that the game tells you to do something and then does not give you the tools to do it.

There is some serious tunnel vision going on if you can’t understand that. It has nothing to do with wealth or getting one item in particular.

Maybe think some more on it today and come back to us with a coherent argument tomorrow, because we are playing ring around the rosy right now until you grasp this.

Re: transmuting Orders armor

I just tried it with Order of Whispers coat and pants, and while the armor I bought was level 80 and thus needed a “silver” stone it does work. I transmuted the armor onto level 0 coat and pants and it became account bound and therefore transferrable to another toon.

So, you can use Orders armor on any toon after you transmute it.

Aeonblade.8709:

I can literally think of no other way to explain to you that the game tells you to do something and then does not give you the tools to do it.

You and the devs have different ideas of what “farming” means. However, the devs built the game, you didn’t.

So you play by their rules and their definition. Or don’t. At this point, they are not very likely to suddenly abandon their work and remake the game according to your desires.

TooBz.3065:

snip
To quote a cowboy junkies song “this weather I could almost stand if the sun would shine a little brighter, or even if the sun would shine at all.”
snip

Canadian bands not allowed to be used in forums

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

It works the same way. If you can farm more efficiently you can get your stuff faster. That’s really the argument.

Anet made a game with a weapon that takes a year or two to get, unless you’re lucky. You don’t like that it was designed that way, and that’s fine. But it’s how it was designed. It was meant to take a year.

Some people don’t have patience and blow real money on gems to sell for gold so they can buy mats or a precusor. Some people like gambling, even if they’re losing, they live in hope. Me, I just play.

I’m not saying farming can or can’t be tweaked. I’m saying, first that I don’t experience the lack of the ability to make money that some people do, and second that farming to get your legendary means you’re focused on a legendary as if it’s the only thing that matters in the game. It matters to you. Though I have one it matters very little to me. I don’t care about it. I’m not interested in it. It’s not why I play MMOs.

You’re focused, driven by this idea of I must have a legendary and it’s ruining the game for you. I’m sorry that that’s the case, but it IS the case. Because if you didn’t care, the game is the same game.

Of course, if you don’t like other things about the game that’s another story.

You still are not getting it. I’m not even trying to get a legendary, and I don’t have a desire too, because I may or may not ever be able to based off of purely luck.

I can literally think of no other way to explain to you that the game tells you to do something and then does not give you the tools to do it.

There is some serious tunnel vision going on if you can’t understand that. It has nothing to do with wealth or getting one item in particular.

Maybe think some more on it today and come back to us with a coherent argument tomorrow, because we are playing ring around the rosy right now until you grasp this.

You saying it doesn’t make it true.

It has long term goals that take a long time. That’s the design. It’s not paradoxical for a long term goal to take a long time. It’s logical.

Nothing in this game requires people to do anything because you don’t need that stuff. You want it. And because that gear isn’t need, unlike in other games, it can take time to get.

You hate that I don’t agree with you. You believe in your heart of hearts that if I understood I would agree with you. I understand.

I don’t agree.

Vayne, I understand where you are coming from, but your circumstances are much different than most everyone else who plays the game. Its not an age thing, as I will be 39 tomorrow, its a goal thing.

I was like you, still am in in most ways. I just wanted to play the game how I wanted. I ran dungeons, fractals, helped out low level people, donated money to different guildies for for their legendary weapons, or help fund whatever ideas they had for starting a new build. I had a period in time where I did not see PvE for a while cause all I did was PvP. Im not high level, but I am almost lvl 40 in the mists. I have been in WvW quite a bit, just because I like the thrill of battle.

And in WvW is where it happened. I was killed by someone in SoR with a dreamer bow, and at that point, I just had to have one. So I made it my goal in this game to get one, so I too could enjoy my time doing the things I like, with the bow I want.

If this game did not have legendary weapons, and ended with exotics, I would still be having a blast in this game doing all the things mentioned above. I would have no goal but to just play, which is why I came to this game. I never played WoW, but I did play Aion for over a year, and lineage 2 for 2 years, and I know what a grind/farming is, and this game delivers to me what they could not.

But all of this does not take away the fact that I have a goal in my head to get the bow that I want. Had the precursor dropped for me months ago, I would already have it as well. But it has not dropped for me, and it has made my goal of obtaining it a frustrating one, because every time I find a path to obtain it, it is shut down, or slowed down. And I am not talking about speed dungeon runs, as I am not a big fan of those. I do not believe in blowing by the content of a game to achieve a goal. And if I have time to play the content Anet has provided and farm in all one sitting, then I should be allowed to do so, and not punished for the latter. But we are, and that is why we are upset.

TLDR: Im old, I have done quite a bit of this games content, and I have a new found goal of getting my legendary, and while I play Anets content they have provided, I also like to play my own way, which is getting nerfed, and I do not like it.

This paradox thread comes at a time when rate (especially dust and t6 mats) have dropped significantly, when prior the rates seemed far more acceptable, even with DR. The attempt to maybe balance out the economy will undoubtedly be met with backlash from players and it’s completely acceptable to believe that. By releasing with a certain outlook on time to acquire then doubling that down the road, make people that were going toward a goal in what they thought was a reasonable amount of time and effort, now view it as a slap in the face. It’s not hard to understand where those people views come from.

Recluse.6740:

Vayne, I understand where you are coming from, but your circumstances are much different than most everyone else who plays the game. Its not an age thing, as I will be 39 tomorrow, its a goal thing.

I was like you, still am in in most ways. I just wanted to play the game how I wanted. I ran dungeons, fractals, helped out low level people, donated money to different guildies for for their legendary weapons, or help fund whatever ideas they had for starting a new build. I had a period in time where I did not see PvE for a while cause all I did was PvP. Im not high level, but I am almost lvl 40 in the mists. I have been in WvW quite a bit, just because I like the thrill of battle.

And in WvW is where it happened. I was killed by someone in SoR with a dreamer bow, and at that point, I just had to have one. So I made it my goal in this game to get one, so I too could enjoy my time doing the things I like, with the bow I want.

If this game did not have legendary weapons, and ended with exotics, I would still be having a blast in this game doing all the things mentioned above. I would have no goal but to just play, which is why I came to this game. I never played WoW, but I did play Aion for over a year, and lineage 2 for 2 years, and I know what a grind/farming is, and this game delivers to me what they could not.

But all of this does not take away the fact that I have a goal in my head to get the bow that I want. Had the precursor dropped for me months ago, I would already have it as well. But it has not dropped for me, and it has made my goal of obtaining it a frustrating one, because every time I find a path to obtain it, it is shut down, or slowed down. And I am not talking about speed dungeon runs, as I am not a big fan of those. I do not believe in blowing by the content of a game to achieve a goal. And if I have time to play the content Anet has provided and farm in all one sitting, then I should be allowed to do so, and not punished for the latter. But we are, and that is why we are upset.

TLDR: Im old, I have done quite a bit of this games content, and I have a new found goal of getting my legendary, and while I play Anets content they have provided, I also like to play my own way, which is getting nerfed, and I do not like it.

The problem here is you are NOT typical. I’m not typical either. What is typical is people get a goal, they get what they want and they stop playing. You talk about the Dreamer. My son got the dreamer. A couple of weeks after he got it, he stopped playing. This is the reality for most people. The goal keeps people going.

I’ve said this before. It’s a line from the original Star Trek. Spock says, “Ston, you may have her. After a time you may find that having, is not always so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” I’ve found this to be true in my life as well.

You want the bow for what you want, but if it was easier to get, and everyone could have it, or most people could get it A) would you still want it and would those people still be playing the game.

You would. I would. But a whole lot of people wouldn’t. Anet is doing what every MMO does. They’re playing the waiting game. They’re working on more content. Building up to something. Until there is enough content, they have to keep people playing. They’re doing that by slowing down progress. In this case, slowing down the progress to making a legendary.

If you really want one it sucks. But I truly believe that if they made them easier to get and people could get them, a decent chunk of people would stop playing.

So yeah, I’m in favor of them doing what they’re doing. As more content gets released, it will be easier and easier to get legendaries, just as it is in all games.

Recluse.6740:

But all of this does not take away the fact that I have a goal in my head to get the bow that I want. Had the precursor dropped for me months ago, I would already have it as well. But it has not dropped for me, and it has made my goal of obtaining it a frustrating one, because every time I find a path to obtain it, it is shut down, or slowed down. And I am not talking about speed dungeon runs, as I am not a big fan of those. I do not believe in blowing by the content of a game to achieve a goal. And if I have time to play the content Anet has provided and farm in all one sitting, then I should be allowed to do so, and not punished for the latter. But we are, and that is why we are upset.

It has already been said by someone from the Anet staff (Colin?) that they understand your point of view and are working on a system that will be less luck-based and show clear progress towards obtaining a legendary precursor. However, as this is still in the planning stages, there are no details or an ETA when this will become part of the game.

It has also been said that adding this kind of content is a process that takes months, not weeks. The devs made the mistake of believing that the players will want to play the game the way the devs want to play the game, and for the most part they are probably right.

But a significant number of players came from WoW and other “gear treadmill” games, and are used to playing the game a very different way. They made some changes to the game to accommodate them, and continue to develop content for these players. But you have to realize that no amount of complaining is going to make these changes magically appear before they are ready. Even with the extensive testing systems they have in place, content is rushed into the game and arrives bugged. To speed up the process in an attempt to keep the vocal minority from leaving will just create a completely broken game that no one can enjoy.

So, continue playing the game and have patience. Or play another game and come back when the content you want has gone live. Or leave and never come back. It’s your choice.

Vayne.8563:

The problem here is you are NOT typical. I’m not typical either. What is typical is people get a goal, they get what they want and they stop playing. You talk about the Dreamer. My son got the dreamer. A couple of weeks after he got it, he stopped playing. This is the reality for most people. The goal keeps people going.

I’ve said this before. It’s a line from the original Star Trek. Spock says, “Ston, you may have her. After a time you may find that having, is not always so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” I’ve found this to be true in my life as well.

You want the bow for what you want, but if it was easier to get, and everyone could have it, or most people could get it A) would you still want it and would those people still be playing the game.

You would. I would. But a whole lot of people wouldn’t. Anet is doing what every MMO does. They’re playing the waiting game. They’re working on more content. Building up to something. Until there is enough content, they have to keep people playing. They’re doing that by slowing down progress. In this case, slowing down the progress to making a legendary.

If you really want one it sucks. But I truly believe that if they made them easier to get and people could get them, a decent chunk of people would stop playing.

So yeah, I’m in favor of them doing what they’re doing. As more content gets released, it will be easier and easier to get legendaries, just as it is in all games.

Although i agree with your logic and your take on it, I would say however, that i’m a much happier person being with the person i want to be with than wanting to be with someone. I tend to appreciate what i have over what i might get down the road. But this isn’t really about life situation, since there is a pretty dramatic difference between what a person might expect from a game.

I think the point is that the game should reward in a way that doesn’t seem like it becomes a chore. I really can’t even count anymore how many people i know that left the game based entirely on this premise. You’re right, we aren’t typical, since we are still here, putting up with these somewhat irrational (or maybe knee-jerk is better) changes.

Aeonblade.8709:

Anet built a game around farming, and then punish players for killing monsters to farm.

Because the game isn’t based around farming. It’s based around content. You don’t need to go to Orr and kill spiders for 20 hours to get a set of armor and weapons for your character. I’ve leveled 7 characters to 80 so far and in every case, I had more than enough gold from their natural progression to get a full set of level 80 Rares as soon as I got there. For most things you might want to do (i.e. everything except maybe high-level Fractals and solo WvW roaming), Rare armor is perfectly fine.

Even Exotics aren’t that difficult to acquire. First, there’s the Temple armor sets, probably the easiest Exotic armor to get. If you do your dailies and random events here and there, you’ll have way more than enough Jugs of Liquid Karma to afford them. If you do WvW, you can use a relatively small number of badges to drop the price of a set of Exotic armor trivially low. Even the gold necessary to buy a full set off the trading post is pretty easy to get: I mine/harvest/chop most resource nodes I come across just because they’re there and just spam “Deposit Collectibles,” and then when I went to sell them made 30+ gold, absolutely no dedicated farming required. That, + gold made while adventuring, is more then enough to kit out a character with full Exotics.

What farming is for, then, is for shinies. If everyone could pick the snazziest, shiniest, prettiest armor and weapons freely, they would have no prestige associated with them. Offering opportunities for conspicuous consumption is a hallmark of the MMO game and Anet is right to include such opportunities in GW2.

Now, I do think Ascended Gear is a step in the wrong direction. We don’t need more stats, we just need more pretty things to buy. For example, the diversity of armor sets in the game is currently somewhat limited. Light Armor is mostly a skirt that’s open in front + pants, Medium Armor is mostly trench coats, and Heavy Armor is mostly blocky shoulders with a metal skirt. I would love it if Anet released Legendary Armor. Same stats as Exotics but with awesome new looks.

Farming should be an option, but it shouldn’t be required. And currently, it isn’t! It needs to be allowed, but it also needs to be controlled (lest it destroy the economy).

I know what they are doing, and why they are doing it. And I could not agree more on just about everything you said, but the point is, is that it is just as damaging to the game to have fast paths to a goal intended or unintended, and shut them down when people use said paths.

Sure we will find another way to get said goal, but the fact we have to work so hard to get that goal, is the reason why people quit after they get what they want. The sigh of relief when you press that button on the forge to make your legendary is also a dying last breath in my opinion, for people who do not enjoy the game to begin with.

If these people want to quit after getting their legendary, its easy to see they did not like the game in the first place, and were playing for the shiny stuff and not the content.

You of all people should be defending this line of thinking, as it will get rid of the people you so fight here on this forum today. Why do you want people playing your game that are just there for the grind and not the content?