Guild Wars 2

Hey man, I hear you but, regardless of how annoying some elitist types can seem, the facts are facts. All though you, I and others would like a better healing capable spec, the fact is healing finding its way into the meta will be kitten near impossible if we can get through encounters w/o popping our personal, let alone a heal for others. My secondary is a Guard(shout) and you can still block, protect, and heal a pug group w/o H/pwr.

Only way healing power becomes a thing is if we cant dps our way thru stuff. And that means either a nerf to dmg or a buff to enemies. I prefer the 1st option (because I believe HoT update will provide the 2nd), but hear the rage now.

And asking for healing is not the same as asking for trinity…if it only includes 2/3

But don’t give up hope

LTREEVEY.2348:

Hey man, I hear you but, regardless of how annoying some elitist types can seem, the facts are facts. All though you, I and others would like a better healing capable spec, the fact is healing finding its way into the meta will be kitten near impossible if we can get through encounters w/o popping our personal, let alone a heal for others. My secondary is a Guard(shout) and you can still block, protect, and heal a pug group w/o H/pwr.

Only way healing power becomes a thing is if we cant dps our way thru stuff. And that means either a nerf to dmg or a buff to enemies. I prefer the 1st option (because I believe HoT update will provide the 2nd), but hear the rage now.

And asking for healing is not the same as asking for trinity…if it only includes 2/3

But don’t give up hope

I appreciate your realism here, but I’m spitballing ideas as a small part of a larger fix to the game. I didn’t title this thread “the one small fix that will make everyone’s every complaint disappear!” nor did I say that this change will make everyone always want to bring a Healing spec whatever.

and… errr…. of all the classes that can do that without ‘Healing Power’ guardian tops the list.

BrokenGlass.9356:

Lets be clear on what I’m not saying.

A. I’m not saying we should have to have a ‘Healing Power’ guy in the group.

Perhaps not, but you are suggesting a nerf to every class in the game so a group will need to have a healing power character in order to achieve results comparable to what is currently possible.

BrokenGlass.9356:

B. I’m not asking for my preferred play style to be buffed. Of my six level 80 toons, only one uses ‘Healing Power’ and its a ranger in Zealot gear, and it does not need to be buffed to any great degree. (Is it sub optimal? Yep. But you’ll appreciate it if you run fractals with me.)

So, it is apparently not your preferred playstyle, and yet you want hundreds of thousands of players to have their characters nerfed in order to support your proposal. I hope you are not suggesting that they be nerfed for their own good.

BrokenGlass.9356:

C. I’m not saying that everything needs to be nerfed. I’m saying that there is no point to the 26th stack of might, so why would you use a skill that applies more might on a 25 stack, when it gives no benefit?

You have suggested that everyone else be nerfed in order to accommodate someone who wants to gear for healing power.

Now, lets be clear about what I am saying.

BrokenGlass.9356:

A. What would be nice, is if a person specced into healing power joins your PUG, and tells everyone that he is a support build, then people will have the chance to change their damage rotations to be more efficient because fire field blast finisher spam from everyone will not be required to maintain a might stack.

Paraphrased as, "it would be nice if one person could invalidate everyone else in the group’s build requiring that they change in order to avoid too much redundancy.

BrokenGlass.9356:

B. People should not be penalized for spending their time and energy, (and money, thanks gem store!) creating a build to help fellow players, only to be kicked from every group of elitist jerks. They should be able to bring a variety of builds, and be able to synergize with various combinations, not just all ’zerk, all the time.

If they are joining a speed run with a non-speed run build it is not the elitists that are being jerks. If you are not willing to bring a build that meets the group’s needs you probably deserved that kick. Particularly if your goal is to do for others what they prefer to do for themselves.

BrokenGlass.9356:

C. A group of ‘Zerkers should be able to get their 25 stack of might… exactly as they do it now. But instead of blasting 50 stacks of might and wasting 25 of them into dead space… they should have a 25 stack simply maintained through group effort…. and really, if your stack fell to 24 stacks… that 1% isn’t breaking you.

And yet you suggested that they not be able to get their 25 stacks as they do now. You propose that everyone in the game be nerfed so that they cannot build and maintain stacks of might as they do now. Instead they are to rely on others to do it for them.

If you want healing power to be buffed, suggest it. Asking for everyone else in the game to be nerfed so that your vision of how group content should be played can be implemented is going to meet resistance.

Ashen.2907:

Asking for everyone else in the game to be nerfed so that your vision of how group content should be played can be implemented is going to meet resistance.

Suggesting anything meets resistance.

When I suggested gold be shared across all characters everyone kittenponded was a naysayer.

Then came wallets, and justice was served.

edit: I cant say responded?

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Asking for everyone else in the game to be nerfed so that your vision of how group content should be played can be implemented is going to meet resistance.

Suggesting anything meets resistance.

When I suggested gold be shared across all characters everyone kittenponded was a naysayer.

Then came wallets, and justice was served.

edit: I cant say responded?

weird, responded shows up just fine in your edit.

Suggesting that everyone have access to X is a bit different than, “I think that X should be taken away from all of you.”

Envy.1679:

Suggesting anything meets resistance.

When I suggested gold be shared across all characters everyone kittenponded was a naysayer.

Then came wallets, and justice was served.

edit: I cant say responded?

There’s a big difference between suggestion a QoL and a Major balance pass which ultimately goes against the core foundation of the game.

Changes that cause content to require a healer (even if that’s not the idea, but the result) will cause a backlash amongst those akin to the manifesto storm.

That’s where the proposed changes head towards. Which is why its so vehemently being rejected.

As is healing power isn’t a bad stat. It just suffers from not being needed and the per-point investment of it being higher as targets have higher hp pools. That’s all.

It’s not an optimal build for speed clearing content, but that doesnt mean the players who enjoy it cannot use it. What it means is they shouldn’t be looking to join PUG speed clears (as ironic as that sounds) and instead look to form their own community/friends/group and play their builds without fear of backlash.

I know that’s a far stretch though as for some reason the MMO community is plagued with the Soloist mentality.

Sorry, but no matter how many times you claim to be, you aren’t the arbiter of what this game is about. It means a lot of things to a lot of different people and this assumed authority you throw around just makes you sound like you have no real arguments. The devs haven’t stated anywhere that they very specifically don’t want anyone to be using healing power in high end PvE groups, on the contrary, from everything we’ve been reading about HoT they seem to be very interested in expanding the kinds of characters that are useful to a group of skillful players.

Aetrion.8295:

Sorry, but no matter how many times you claim to be, you aren’t the arbiter of what this game is about. It means a lot of things to a lot of different people and this assumed authority you throw around just makes you sound like you have no real arguments. The devs haven’t stated anywhere that they very specifically don’t want anyone to be using healing power in high end PvE groups, on the contrary, from everything we’ve been reading about HoT they seem to be very interested in expanding the kinds of characters that are useful to a group of skillful players.

I don’t claim to be an arbiter of anything.

I’m merely reiterating what Anet themselves has stated their own vision for the game to be. As in they at no point wanted defined conventional roles (HEALER, TANK, DPS) to exist. They’ve done exactly that. They want support, damage, and control to be their version of the trinity with every class being sufficiently capable of one or more of those roles. Guess, what ? They’ve met that goal.

If this isn’t what you like fine, i get that you’re entitled to your opinion on how weak something is. However, just stop thinking it’s not by design.

BrokenGlass.9356:

LTREEVEY.2348:

Hey man, I hear you but, regardless of how annoying some elitist types can seem, the facts are facts. All though you, I and others would like a better healing capable spec, the fact is healing finding its way into the meta will be kitten near impossible if we can get through encounters w/o popping our personal, let alone a heal for others. My secondary is a Guard(shout) and you can still block, protect, and heal a pug group w/o H/pwr.

Only way healing power becomes a thing is if we cant dps our way thru stuff. And that means either a nerf to dmg or a buff to enemies. I prefer the 1st option (because I believe HoT update will provide the 2nd), but hear the rage now.

And asking for healing is not the same as asking for trinity…if it only includes 2/3

But don’t give up hope

I appreciate your realism here, but I’m spitballing ideas as a small part of a larger fix to the game. I didn’t title this thread “the one small fix that will make everyone’s every complaint disappear!” nor did I say that this change will make everyone always want to bring a Healing spec whatever.

and… errr…. of all the classes that can do that without ‘Healing Power’ guardian tops the list.

Right, but you did say you think the meta would except it, no? Regardless, I don’t want to tell you no this wont work, I’m just saying (as you mentioned) this a small part to a larger fix. I want to see variety come to this game too, but I think it would be better received if the content warranted change, not nerfs. When they announced the nerf to might(honestly didn’t think it was nerfed enough) and change to ferocity, I was like, yes! But they followed up with no further changes which meant u still didn’t need anything outside of a block here, a dodge there, and a #6 when we kitten up. I do propose stuff like this though:

-H/Pwr gets the Condi DMG treatment; dramatic scale increase when fully tapped in
-Nerf/Cap on precision; would love to see this but its probably far too late for such a change
-Increase to shareable mechanics; some specs have good personal support but they cant share. My point about Guard resonates here, they don’t have to sacrifice to help because they share everything. Your proposal would mean many sacrifices and chips from the efficiency which would not make it into meta.
-A balance to boons and Each prof(or spec) mastering at a certain type; currently MIGHT far surpasses the importance/usefulness of other boons. I understand that some classes are better than others at obtaining certain boons but not many of them master a boon over the other classes in terms of sharing Just think of a world where Regen mattered.

How to implement said changes is difficult though.

TexZero.7910:

I’m merely reiterating what Anet themselves has stated their own vision for the game to be. As in they at no point wanted defined conventional roles (HEALER, TANK, DPS) to exist. They’ve done exactly that. They want support, damage, and control to be their version of the trinity with every class being sufficiently capable of one or more of those roles. Guess, what ? They’ve met that goal.

You can’t point to any character that is currently considered to be powerful in high end PvE and nail it down to any such thing. They just all do everything and all in the same gear to boot. Build diversity in this game is so bad that half the classes aren’t even considered to be high performing, let alone a wide variety of gear and spec choices.

The game currently has 8 classes, every class has 60 possible spec combinations, and there are 3 major stat categories. That’s almost a thousand possible builds before we even start looking at specific stat breakdowns, weapons loadouts or trait allocation.

You know how many of those are considered to be top tier right now? Four! A mere 4 different builds are “meta” for PvE. Maybe a dozen others are considered to be pretty decent.

It’s completely irrelevant what you want to call the roles in this game when they simply don’t exist. There is no diversity in the builds that people use if they care about performance, no way to distinguish yourself from other players in any meaningful way, and no depth at all in the character builds.

You’re the one stuck in outdated thinking because you can’t seem to get it through your head that this isn’t about whether or not you can play as a healer, it’s about whether or not you can play as anything other than the same old boring meta builds at all if you don’t want to impose a skill ceiling on yourself.

Ashen.2907:

BrokenGlass.9356:

Lets be clear on what I’m not saying.

A. I’m not saying we should have to have a ‘Healing Power’ guy in the group.

Perhaps not, but you are suggesting a nerf to every class in the game so a group will need to have a healing power character in order to achieve results comparable to what is currently possible.

Would it matter? I think any content would be doable withou a healing guy as is. good groups (almost) never fall below 90%, so why would you need healing??? Else you are not playing right.

Most healing builds were in WvW and they were nerfed…

Ashen.2907:

BrokenGlass.9356:

B. I’m not asking for my preferred play style to be buffed. Of my six level 80 toons, only one uses ‘Healing Power’ and its a ranger in Zealot gear, and it does not need to be buffed to any great degree. (Is it sub optimal? Yep. But you’ll appreciate it if you run fractals with me.)

So, it is apparently not your preferred playstyle, and yet you want hundreds of thousands of players to have their characters nerfed in order to support your proposal. I hope you are not suggesting that they be nerfed for their own good.

No I’d not be nerfing most characters as it was already stated

• PvE is played with active defence, good players will not drop below 90% in most if niet all fights.
• Most players play PvE
• For WvW I actually see more builds affected, dedicated healers are already uned in WvW though they were hit quite hard in the trait patch (23 june) as gamplay got faster and more deadly and healing from traits was removed and left most healing builds crippled. Now we only have DPS and a few ele’s struggling to keep up the water fields.
  I do not think it would matter for PvP with celestial reigning rampant, Also it wouldn’t really make a difference… UN:ESS you’d actually choose to use healing power, which is useless atm.

Ashen.2907:

BrokenGlass.9356:

C. I’m not saying that everything needs to be nerfed. I’m saying that there is no point to the 26th stack of might, so why would you use a skill that applies more might on a 25 stack, when it gives no benefit?

You have suggested that everyone else be nerfed in order to accommodate someone who wants to gear for healing power.

No I’m asking for healing power to become a factor in builds, and to do so people need a reason

Ashen.2907:

Now, lets be clear about what I am saying.

BrokenGlass.9356:

A. What would be nice, is if a person specced into healing power joins your PUG, and tells everyone that he is a support build, then people will have the chance to change their damage rotations to be more efficient because fire field blast finisher spam from everyone will not be required to maintain a might stack.

Paraphrased as, "it would be nice if one person could invalidate everyone else in the group’s build requiring that they change in order to avoid too much redundancy.

Understand META is fluid.
At present 90% of the game is faceroll anyways. This would add a small factor of difficulty if you choose to ignore healing, like 33% less heal from regen and your #6

Ashen.2907:

BrokenGlass.9356:

B. People should not be penalized for spending their time and energy, (and money, thanks gem store!) creating a build to help fellow players, only to be kicked from every group of elitist jerks. They should be able to bring a variety of builds, and be able to synergize with various combinations, not just all ’zerk, all the time.

If they are joining a speed run with a non-speed run build it is not the elitists that are being jerks. If you are not willing to bring a build that meets the group’s needs you probably deserved that kick. Particularly if your goal is to do for others what they prefer to do for themselves.

play as you want. though the present facerolls and 100% active defense shoiuldn’t change due to this healing scaling change for the good players

Ashen.2907:

BrokenGlass.9356:

C. A group of ‘Zerkers should be able to get their 25 stack of might… exactly as they do it now. But instead of blasting 50 stacks of might and wasting 25 of them into dead space… they should have a 25 stack simply maintained through group effort…. and really, if your stack fell to 24 stacks… that 1% isn’t breaking you.

And yet you suggested that they not be able to get their 25 stacks as they do now. You propose that everyone in the game be nerfed so that they cannot build and maintain stacks of might as they do now. Instead they are to rely on others to do it for them.

Might stacking is for ele’s before the fight and for PS during the fight.

Ashen.2907:

If you want healing power to be buffed, suggest it. Asking for everyone else in the game to be nerfed so that your vision of how group content should be played can be implemented is going to meet resistance.

Good as long as they are willing to think about it and help theorize not just say: Oh my meta might change and I cannot adapt.

This change will raise the bar slightly It could be a good thing.It coul;d add a use for other builds. I can join fast dungeon runs now with condi builds. but healing stays a wasted stat. if nothing is done… Undderstand I’m suggesting heals to go from 100% fixed healing with noone taking healing as a stat as this is so imbalanced to 50-7% % of this value but a actual gain if you would take healing.

In case of the shout heal warrior It would mean base heals would go from 1000 to 500-750 but the actual healing be buffed from 1 times healing power to 2 or a bit more
leaving the zerk shout heal with 500-750 heal instead of 1000 and the clerics one with 4-4.4k instead of 2.8k heal (old: 1000+ 1*healing power) -> (new: 500 (or 750)+ 2*healing power) It would validate healing for some.

Shifting some resoureces to more support oriented characters might make your #6 skill more dps oriented… but as I said meta will not be affected.

Due to the nerfs in base heal, most builds are affected, but due to the present meta and builds There is no reason for them to take healing power anyways. before or after this kind of “reorganisation of stats.”

Aetrion.8295:

TexZero.7910:

I’m merely reiterating what Anet themselves has stated their own vision for the game to be. As in they at no point wanted defined conventional roles (HEALER, TANK, DPS) to exist. They’ve done exactly that. They want support, damage, and control to be their version of the trinity with every class being sufficiently capable of one or more of those roles. Guess, what ? They’ve met that goal.

You can’t point to any character that is currently considered to be powerful in high end PvE and nail it down to any such thing. They just all do everything and all in the same gear to boot. Build diversity in this game is so bad that half the classes aren’t even considered to be high performing, let alone a wide variety of gear and spec choices.

The game currently has 8 classes, every class has 60 possible spec combinations, and there are 3 major stat categories. That’s almost a thousand possible builds before we even start looking at specific stat breakdowns, weapons loadouts or trait allocation.

You know how many of those are considered to be top tier right now? Four! A mere 4 different builds are “meta” for PvE. Maybe a dozen others are considered to be pretty decent.

It’s completely irrelevant what you want to call the roles in this game when they simply don’t exist. There is no diversity in the builds that people use if they care about performance, no way to distinguish yourself from other players in any meaningful way, and no depth at all in the character builds.

You’re the one stuck in outdated thinking because you can’t seem to get it through your head that this isn’t about whether or not you can play as a healer, it’s about whether or not you can play as anything other than the same old boring meta builds at all if you don’t want to impose a skill ceiling on yourself.

You can play anything in PvE content and get away with it.

It’s just not as fast as running full zerker or the current meta builds (which some include condition damage variants) that are out there.

Every single game runs into this issue. People theory and math craft the most optimal way to play it.

That doesn’t mean every other way is wrong, it just means that given the same time and same conditions one set will be stronger than the other, and that is perfectly fine.

As per imposing a skill ceiling on oneself, every build does this. Not just meta builds. Every class and build has its own set of skill floor and ceiling attached. So whatever you’re attempting to prove here is moot.

Pretty sure that covers just about every and anything. To me it really seems like you’re asking for a different game and that’s a choice for you to make not for the devs to change to your whims.

TexZero.7910:

You can play anything in PvE content and get away with it.

Yes, and the fact that playing anything other than a tiny number of builds is considered “getting away with it” rather than being able to challenge yourself to the fullest with a character build of your own design is exactly why this game is completely broken in its current state.

The fact that the game is so easy that you can succeed with a bad build doesn’t excuse the fact that so few builds are good.

Aetrion.8295:

TexZero.7910:

You can play anything in PvE content and get away with it.

Yes, and the fact that playing anything other than a tiny number of builds is considered “getting away with it” rather than being able to challenge yourself to the fullest with a character build of your own design is exactly why this game is completely broken in its current state.

You have a real way with run-on sentences.

Aetrion.8295:

The fact that the game is so easy that you can succeed with a bad build doesn’t excuse the fact that so few builds are good.

on the bright side, i’d say that in HoT you will no longer be able to succeed with a bad build.

Aetrion.8295:

TexZero.7910:

You can play anything in PvE content and get away with it.

Yes, and the fact that playing anything other than a tiny number of builds is considered “getting away with it” rather than being able to challenge yourself to the fullest with a character build of your own design is exactly why this game is completely broken in its current state.

The fact that the game is so easy that you can succeed with a bad build doesn’t excuse the fact that so few builds are good.

There’s plenty of good builds. They just aren’t the most optimal….feels like im beating a dead horse here. Might be you’re pushing the non-existing issue though.

The fact that you can legitimately run whatever you want into PvE shows that it is perfectly balanced. Sure your average encounter time may be longer than others but that is your choice.

Notice that word, choice. It’s not an illusion, you have it. You can chose what you do, and by doing so your results vary. This is what we call balance.

here is a crude drawing of a balance scale for you since the concept is seemingly lost on you.

Consider that in this game i cannot think of any build that falls into Not Plausible…that leaves Poor and above and guess what they all work in PvE.

Shocking i know.

Who would have guessed that there’s around 8 optimal builds(in PvE, more in PvP and WvW), 1 for each class and literally hundreds of others that range from sub optimal to poor that are completely viable.

really, it’s not that bad builds work; it’s that anything that works is not a bad build. If you come away with loot, your skills & your build were up to par.

That some things are more efficient is inescapable. There’s always going to be an edge somewhere.
But if it works, and more importantly, if you enjoy playing it, it is by definition a good build.

Narrrz.7532:

But if it works, and more importantly, if you enjoy playing it, it is by definition a good build.

Thank you for getting the picture.

It’s not about forcing your playstyle onto others either by demanding a core gameplay change.

Instead look to play with like minded players and you wont find any problems with you daily routines.

TexZero.7910:

Narrrz.7532:

But if it works, and more importantly, if you enjoy playing it, it is by definition a good build.

Thank you for getting the picture.

It’s not about forcing your playstyle onto others either by demanding a core gameplay change.

Instead look to play with like minded players and you wont find any problems with you daily routines.

I’d have to say i DO want to see a core gameplay change; i want healing power as a stat gone, and folded into traits and other attributes.

Dinks.2478:

Thatkitten Rat.1236:

TexZero.7910:

Support is already in the meta.

Bring boons, strip defiance stacks. You’ve done your job.

Support is not about stats for the Nth time.

And that’s the problem, Healing power is at the moment kind of superfluous. You don’t need it to heal effectively or provide support, for most classes it does next to nothing. My thoughts is heals needs to scale much more on healing power and have their base values rammed into the floor, so if you want your heal to be effective you have to invest in healing power, and if you want to full zerk, fine, but you better not get hit – ever.

That is contrary to this games point. The point is that you DON’T need to run any one specific stat. Sure soem of the playerbase has decided that they expect people to wear zerker gear, but that is inherently different than making the game impossible without a specific stat. You’re hinging dangerously on imposing the tank/heal/dps trinity, and nobody wants that or we’d be playing a game where the trinity exists. This game has it’s own trinity, DPS/Support/CC. And each class can do all of that. It makes for very fast party grouping. Unless you’re very picky in which case that is the fault of those people and not a system wide design flaw.

Okay, people need to get over their fear that the trinity will somehow make every thing awful, because the trinity is already in the game, you have damage, you have support in the form of healing and boon giving powers and Tanking in the form of Damage resistance stats and protection/Aegis. You pretty much CAN"T avoid the trinity as all the trinity really is is the most distilled form of the basic elements of a tactical combat game. It’s there in your game already, all over your character. In attempting to remove all Anet have done is kitten the tank/Support elements and turned the game into a boring DPS race. Hell games which were actively designed with trinity in mind have trouble avoiding DPS overbearing everything, I certainly saw it become an issue in City of Heroes, particularly the last incarnate trial vs Emperor Cole, and it had full tanking mechanics with aggro management and involved support classes that were fun to play.
Because as you say, all classes can perform all roles, my suggestion wouldn’t impose a role on you, it would simply counter-balance going pure DPS meaning we’d perhaps get more varied builds and a trend hopefully to mor ebalanced and well rounded characters, not one-trick ponies.
At the moment GW2 doesn’t have a trinity, it has a unity, from there a trinity is a step up.

Aetrion.8295:

You can’t point to any character that is currently considered to be powerful in high end PvE and nail it down to any such thing. They just all do everything and all in the same gear to boot.

Every character is Control, DPS and Support all in one. No dedicated roles was intended. Everyone contributes to everything. Sorry you don’t like Guild Wars 2!

edit: I love the comments like “HoT is looking to expand the type of characters that are useful in skilled groups.” Maybe so! But that leaves little hope for all the unskilled groups of ever beating the content. Then again, I’m sure everyone thinks they are in the “skilled” category…

I made a rapid calculations based on tooltip.
Setup : Mesmer staff auto attack, regen, self heal and mantra heal to others (inspiration line with 2-2-2 traits) plus regen applied by phantasm. I compared Berserker gear and Zealot gear, basically, exchange of ferocity towards healing power. For this I presumed a 12 sec time for healing mantra (1 sec between cast and 10 sec recharge).

If everything is correct for berserker:
-AA 612 dps // Regen 130 HPS // Self heal 433 HPS // Heal to others 216 HPS
In zealot it becomes :
-AA 495 DPS // Regen 209 HPS // Self Heal 499 HPS // Heal to others 231 HPS

So changing ferocity to healing power leads to a loss of 20 % DPS on auto attack, and an increase of 38% HPS on regen, 13 % on self healing and 6 % on healing to others. Of course the biggest difference is that auto dps is always required and healing is on demand so you won’t spam your heal on recharge (though it is possible if you want to maximize your output in team heal).

Basically it seems to work as intended, you trade dps to hps in a comparable amount. Maybe one could imagine a boost of healing power in the form of healing to other except regeneration ( like every 100 points in healing power you have 1% of heal to other instead of those given by traits) but for now it doesn’t seem necessary.

Ranael.6423:

I made a rapid calculations based on tooltip.
Setup : Mesmer staff auto attack, regen, self heal and mantra heal to others (inspiration line with 2-2-2 traits) plus regen applied by phantasm. I compared Berserker gear and Zealot gear, basically, exchange of ferocity towards healing power. For this I presumed a 12 sec time for healing mantra (1 sec between cast and 10 sec recharge).

If everything is correct for berserker:
-AA 612 dps // Regen 130 HPS // Self heal 433 HPS // Heal to others 216 HPS
In zealot it becomes :
-AA 495 DPS // Regen 209 HPS // Self Heal 499 HPS // Heal to others 231 HPS

So changing ferocity to healing power leads to a loss of 20 % DPS on auto attack, and an increase of 38% HPS on regen, 13 % on self healing and 6 % on healing to others. Of course the biggest difference is that auto dps is always required and healing is on demand so you won’t spam your heal on recharge (though it is possible if you want to maximize your output in team heal).

Basically it seems to work as intended, you trade dps to hps in a comparable amount. Maybe one could imagine a boost of healing power in the form of healing to other except regeneration ( like every 100 points in healing power you have 1% of heal to other instead of those given by traits) but for now it doesn’t seem necessary.

Yeah, that’s my beef with the healing power stat as it stands – you give up quite a bit of DPS (which, as we’ve established, matters a lot) to gain a fairly small amount of HPS. Now the real question is, how much longer do you last, and how much more room to goof up does your group have? From my experience, not enough more to really matter, doubly so since the gain in survivability is offset by a loss in damage, usually making the fight take longer. I’d actually argue that given the ratios you posted above, that it’s not quite working as intended: Healing Power doesn’t scale as well as Ferocity does, it seems.

My point is not “healers aren’t viable”, it’s “the Healing Power stat is pretty much never worth stacking, no matter what build you want”. Heck, even for most pure-support, pug-saver builds, you’re better off with Knight’s or Soldier’s than most any of the combos that have Healing Power.

Would adding Boon Duration into Healing Power make it even a little useful, even a little of the time? For the sake of debate, ignore the “nerf base boon duration” concept.

NikeEU.7690:

Every character is Control, DPS and Support all in one. No dedicated roles was intended. Everyone contributes to everything. Sorry you don’t like Guild Wars 2!

Well, not everyone, only the 4 best builds. But I’m sure that’s exactly what the devs where shooting for when they gave us a variety of classes and specs and gear. It’d be silly to make a game where no build variety exists without spending a good chunk of your development time putting in builds nobody is supposed to use.

NikeEU.7690:

Every character is Control, DPS and Support all in one. No dedicated roles was intended. Everyone contributes to everything. Sorry you don’t like Guild Wars 2!

Well, not everyone, only the 4 best builds. I mean if everyone does everything there is no need to build a character for anything other than producing the biggest possible numbers while doing so.

But I’m sure that’s exactly what the devs where shooting for when they gave us a variety of classes and specs and gear. It’d be silly to make a game where no build variety exists without spending a good chunk of your development time putting in builds nobody is supposed to use.

BrokenGlass.9356:

I appreciate your realism here, but I’m spitballing ideas as a small part of a larger fix to the game. I didn’t title this thread “the one small fix that will make everyone’s every complaint disappear!” nor did I say that this change will make everyone always want to bring a Healing spec whatever.

and… errr…. of all the classes that can do that without ‘Healing Power’ guardian tops the list.

I continue to think that we misunderstand your tread or what you try to accomplish or what is your solution exactly. The thing your not the first one to propose that exact same ’’solution’’ and you won’t be the first. And they all say the same thing at the end. They all say that we don’t understand what they are trying to do.

In the end, the facts stay the facts like LTREEVEY.2348 said, healing power will never be part of the meta unless you completely change the way the game work and it’s our opinion that changing the game as much as it need to be done to achieve that isn’t a good idea. Especially, since most of us don’t really want healing power to be meta. Why? Because we are convinced that any way healing power because meta will mean that active defense isn’t strong enough to be good and not really worth taking (like Healing power right now). And for use Active defense is a lot lot lot lot lot more fun and interesting to play. It doesn’t mean that we don’t want healing power to be decent. Pass that point, that’s my personal opinion.

Healing power is actually more than decent right now. You just have to look at trio fractal with Skady Valda. It work super well in a hard situation and right now the only hard situation is fractal 50 with only 3 people. Even then it will be faster to run 3 zerkers, but it will be more dangerous to wipe. Taking a healing guardian with 2 zerker make the run a lot smoother. So imagine if you crap up the difficult of any new content so that it’s as challenging but with a full party. You’ll start to see some healing or more tanky build because the vast majority of player won’t be able to complete the content in a full zerker team without wiping a couple time. But full zerker with active defense will still be the most optimal way of player and great team will continue to use that method.

Healing Power could also use some rebalance, especially for outgoing healing. Maybe more skill that heal your team and some healing power ratio are really bad.

Aetrion.8295:

NikeEU.7690:

Every character is Control, DPS and Support all in one. No dedicated roles was intended. Everyone contributes to everything. Sorry you don’t like Guild Wars 2!

Well, not everyone, only the 4 best builds. I mean if everyone does everything there is no need to build a character for anything other than producing the biggest possible numbers while doing so.

But I’m sure that’s exactly what the devs where shooting for when they gave us a variety of classes and specs and gear. It’d be silly to make a game where no build variety exists without spending a good chunk of your development time putting in builds nobody is supposed to use.

Well almost every single weapon set brings all three aspects in a form or another, sometimes the support is more personal, sometimes more group oriented. Then your traits allow you to emphasize one or two aspects. Finally gear, as few to do with your build but only affect your comfort zone, only exception ow being condi build which can only work with a condi gear.

A recurring problem seems to be: Some posters are convinced any form of healing change will introduce the full trinity, Which it will not. Not even partially

So I’ll repeat now (and later): Most threads regarding the change of healing as a stat are NOT ABOUT THE INTRODUCTION OF THE TRINITY. It’s about working together on “making a stat usefull” Even you the afraid power / Meta users agree on the uselessness of the stat. So let’s be condstructive…. Please?

Now back to the topic:

USING and USEFULLNESS of attributes:

1. As is now we have Power which scales ALL physical dmg
2. As is now we have Condition Dmg which scales ALL condition based dmg
3. As is now we have Precision which scale criticals which are a guaranteed 150% of normal dmg HIT
4. As is now we have Ferocity which scales the 150% critical hit to be maximum 240+% in some builds
5. As is now we have Toughness which can mitigate all PHYSICAL damage by 15-45%
6. We also have Condition Duration and Boon Duration which is no longer related to armors and builds or Traits for that matter and is now only found in runes and food. (Unless you’d consider Givers’ Weapons or Armor.)
7. As is now we have Vitality which only adds 10 hp for every point to a maxed 20000 points
8. And we have Healing which will affect healing, regeneration, and partial vampiric lifesteal, in numbers like follows:
   
   NUMBERS: Effects of healing on heals scaling numbers based on max heal.

• Healing skills
  base heals : 1000- 8250
  with 0.5-1.25 scaling: 1100-2750 added @2200 healing
  e.g. “Signet of Resolve” has a 8250 base heal and the 1.25 scaling

• Lifedrains
  base: 25-79.
  with 0.00 to 0.04 scaling: 0-88 added @ 2200 healing
  Vampiric as a trait was the only scaling triat for necromancer minor life steal
  Life siphon is self only and transfusion only heals others when traited.

• Waters and blast (AoE)
  base: 1320
  with 0.2 scaling 440 added@ 2200 healing

• Waters and leap (only self)
  base: 1320
  with 0.5 scaling 1100 added@ 2200 healing

• Regeneration
  base 130
  with 0.125 scaling 275 added@ 2200 healing

• Reviving Downed is not affected by healing whatsoever.

2200 is the MAXIMUM Healing Power attainable if you invest in GUARDIAN with MAIN stat healing armor, healing runes, healing food, healing utility, signet of mercy (+180 healing) AND a maxed sigil of life…..
No other character can reach this amount
All other proffesions are capped out at roughly 2000 Healing Power
Normal amounts are
0 for DPS builds,
~700 for celestial,
~1000 for minor stat
~1400 for major stat,
~175 for runes and
~150(-450) from traits (often very situational)

HEALING IMPLEMENTATIONS =/= INTRODUCTION OF TRINITY

Saying the nerf of healing will destroy your builds and meta is not the truth, as far as I’m concerned. All people mentioned time and time again healing is not neccesary due to active defence and now you say it will cause major harm?
I, personally, sincerely doubt so.

You would just add a small nerf to DPS only builds in a field they shouldn’t be touching ANYWAYS, Cause you already botched it if you need skill #6
In good dungeon runs I NEVER use #6 EVER, unless it would be used in a secondary role (arcane brilliance as a blast finisher for example or healing spring with balthazar runes… or #6 with runes of aristocracy for 3 might.)

If people want to play using healing and booning that should be facilitated as well.
If zerkerscan play how they want then why should people who want to play how they want be punished? Playing how you want has seemingly been nerfed to death.

We are are forced into DPS roles, even in threads relating to support. At least some, even in this thread, seem to be urging the community to think this way.

People playing DPS come to say in these in healing related threads healing shouldn’t be modified as healing as an attribute is useless anyways which should point out:

• SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE! *
  ———————-

Understand Healing (both the nerf and scaling improvement combined) and Boon duration improvements will open a part of the game which has seen consistent nerfs,

Boon duration has been reduced since headstart…
(Boon Duration:
used to be (3 yrs ago) +30% from traits and 65% from rune combo’s and +20% from food (max 115%) to maximum ,
used to be (before june 23rd) +30% from traits and 45% from runes and 20 from food ( max 95%)
NOW:, of 45% from runes and 20 from food ( max 65%)

Most characters lost ~300 healing and 30% boon duration with the june 23 patch if they were in a support role before. Little has been done to compensate.
——————

You do not have a trinity introduced to this game due to

• The nerf of BASE healing or
• The IMPROVED scaling from HEALING POWER.

That’s an illusion. IMHO.

Sorry Pax but what I don’t get is how healing is a useless stat !
You say it yourself, a full healing gear set boosts your team heal by 211% for regen or 166% for water blast. It can be even more in the case of traits and runes increasing your heal on other… it is sometimes another 25% in the case of water ele with monk rune. I mean if you keep regen on everyone around you it is a huge increase.

In fact having one “healer” in a group is making runs smoother without loosing that much time for the average Joe group. But it is a matter of group level, if you have no death in the run while running full DPS why would you need more heal?

On top of that you won’t loose all your dps by doing it if for example you mix cleric and magi to keep your power and crit chance high enough. You also don’t loose vulne/weakness application in most cases and generally your build increase naturally the uptime of boons you provide. Saying healing power is useless is simply not true.

Also don’t forget the impact in PvP where the stats is even less useless. Giving too much opportunity to have turtle team would just recreate the meta of GW1 GvG when the entire match was a flagstand camping until VOD. Lately sPvP Meta is maybe too aggressive but the balance has to be on the damage side.

Healignis actually Good in this ame you can make a really good Healer, the thing is, THERE IS 0 REASON TOO.

And that is a good thing and a bad thing, You can do it in pvp and wvw a bit, but there are better ways to play and in pvE I would rather not be force to need a healer.

With that said, A Ele with right gear/traits can be a Healer just like in WoW and other MMO’s

A healing Ele Staff Auto attack while in Water can heal for 800 HP easily. Its 500hp with only Cele gear and no runes. Then with Water Fields and other healing from Regen and Dodges etc… You can make a really strong healer.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

A recurring problem seems to be: Some posters are convinced any form of healing change will introduce the full trinity, Which it will not. Not even partially

Actually, no one thinks that. That’s just a strawman argument for you to feel like you’re way smarter than everyone else.

The truth is the people against buffing Healing Power are the ones who are aware of how powerful it already is. Apparently unkillable god mode full tank builds aren’t ridiculously OP for you and you want them buffed further.

Exactly. Healing power is already powerful. It’s the current content that make is not really useful.

I have several healers:

• zealot shout heal warrior (also has a zerk set)(exotic zealot trinkets)
• zealot guard (also has a zerk set) (exotic zealot trinkets)
• nomads and/or clerics guard (WvW support/commander group)
• zealot necro (also has a zerk set)
• zealot ele (exotic zealot trinkets)
• celestial ele (alternate (WvW) armor for my main (dungeon)ele (zerk scholar w. dungeon sets))

Then again having 17 characters and comparing the gains from Zealot to Zerk I’ll say the loss of the ferocity is not compensated by having 600-700 added healing in most if not all those builds. They were all invalidated with the 23 june patch, all builds lost 300 healing and their boon duration and all got a trait saying you need to hit so many times for a temporary buff (guards) or need to be below 50% health to heal like before at 100% health (necro)

Saying all healing is perfectly viable is mostly true, but it’s 75% to 60% of what it used to be compared to combat/dungeon/WB /WvW events 2+ months ago….
Losing 30% regen duration is a big hit when you’re healing.
Losing the embedded trait line stats is a big thing if you had a specialised build.
My zealot builds had 950 healing and now they are stuck around 650…

I can compensate for the loss by using clestial or clerics trinkets, but I cannot use zealot trinkets as they do not exist (at least not ascneded (and the exotic trinkets will be VERY expensive)) I do have some though and they are soulbound…

But you forget one thing : your boost in healing for the team is bigger than the loss of DPS team. In my example of Mesmer, say you loose 20 to 30 % DPS, it is a lot but your team (assuming 5 player like in dungeon) loose 5 % DPS because everyone contribute the same to DPS (more or less).
On the other hand, everyone’s Regen is boosted by 40 % , so 40 % team Hp per sec regen because one guy providing Regen is enough for the entire team.

In other traditional game, the healer won’t contribute to dps (or minimally) here you are still required as dps on top of being a healer.

On using Healing Power to determine Condition Removal

@Ardid: That’s an interesting idea, but how would that work? Condi cleanses are kinda binary: they remove the condition or they don’t, mostly. This also risks making healing power mandatory, which I wouldn’t want, but it has potential depending on implementation.

Too binary, IMO. In fact, I think that is one of the real problems with condi game: if you have cleanses condi doesn’t matter, if you haven’t cleanses condi is all that matters.

Maybe if cleanses remove stacks instead of whole condis? And the game calculate the number of stacks removed based on healing & fixed number per skill?

PS: sorry for answering so late, I had an internet problem yesterday.

Ardid.7203:

On using Healing Power to determine Condition Removal

@Ardid: That’s an interesting idea, but how would that work? Condi cleanses are kinda binary: they remove the condition or they don’t, mostly. This also risks making healing power mandatory, which I wouldn’t want, but it has potential depending on implementation.

Too binary, IMO. In fact, I think that is one of the real problems with condi game: if you have cleanses condi doesn’t matter, if you haven’t cleanses condi is all that matters.

Maybe if cleanses remove stacks instead of whole condis? And the game calculate the number of stacks removed based on healing & fixed number per skill?

PS: sorry for answering so late, I had an internet problem yesterday.

Ok, I could see that, yeah. Another possibility (but maybe OP?) would be for cleanses to remove fewer conditions (usually just one) but to also add a short duration of resistance with the resistance duration scaling with Healing Power (independent of Boon Duration, which of course would also extend the resistance, since it’s a boon).

I think there are a ton of ideas to make Healing Power more interesting/competitive/required. I just comply by pointing that Condi Removal is NOT USING ANY ATTRIBUTE. Simply linking this to Healing Power could solve problems both with the current uselessness of said Attribute, and with the excessive contrast between builds with too easy access to condi removal, and builds with almost zero.

About balance and “the trinity”: IMO, what Anet should be doing is NOT making trinity style partys impossible, but making sure every one can survive without depending on that. I think that was the point: to allow us to survive, play and to HAVE FUN both alone or in groups, more or less organized, by allowing us to adjust our amount of dps, support and utility. This is NOT the same as to allow ANY group to play, much less to allow DPS-only parties to dominate the game.
In other words: full DPS builds should need heavy support allies to survive, full support builds should need DPS partners to progress through the content, while more mixed builds should have a far more easy time playing solo or in desorganized groups, altough less efficiently.

I the end, I think we are not the designers nor the owners of the game: Its time for the devs to look at this and use some of the ideas…

Ardid.7203:

In other words: full DPS builds should need heavy support allies to survive, full support builds should need DPS partners to progress through the content, while more mixed builds should have a far more easy time playing solo or in desorganized groups, altough less efficiently.

What, specifically, makes that more fun than the game currently? I would argue that, at best, it is equal to what we have now. It certainly isn’t objectively more fun than the current state of affairs.

You could argue, "it would be more fun for people who like to play pure support.*

I would respond, “it would be less fun for DPS people who prefer action combat and avoiding damage based on experience and skill.”

What this all comes down to are people who want the game system radically redesigned so their personal do-nothing red bars go up playstyle is useful. Too bad! Stop being so ridiculously selfish by asking for a massive redesign of a game enjoyed by millions so your own preferences are catered to.

You know what will make healing power better without having to redesign the game engine? Content so hard that party healing becomes important. OH THE HUMANITY!! How about instead of bashing your braincells together to think up these ludicrous schemes to shoehorn healing power into the meta, you advocate for new, challenging content that makes healing power part of the meta naturally?

Jade Nekotenshi.8702:

Would adding Boon Duration into Healing Power make it even a little useful, even a little of the time? For the sake of debate, ignore the “nerf base boon duration” concept.

It’d throw out pvp balance without making it attractive enough to itemize for pve.

i’m sure that fits some definition of ‘useful’.

Of all the playstyles I could imagine right now, wich we could try to adjust into maybe 10 broad categorys to make it more manageable, only “full DPS” seems to be dominating the game. This is a flaw both in the game system AND in the content.

And also in the players: most people prefer Berzerker because it it easier and faster, not because they have tons of skill and experience.

OF COURSE harder content is needed. Nobody is arguing that. But basic game balance shouldn’t be focused on self designated “experts”, but on the objetive base gameplay. Experts and casual can THEN gather were their respective dedicated contents are.

PS: Sorry to push down this to a “personal” level, but I’m doing it just to exemplify what I’m saying: If you have so much experience and skill, why do you need so much DPS? Experience and skill should let you complete content no matter wich set or build you use.
Truly expert players I know seek challenges, not loopholes and unbalances to make things easier. They are those necros defeating Lupi with yellow armor, for kitten sake.

Narrrz.7532:

Jade Nekotenshi.8702:

Would adding Boon Duration into Healing Power make it even a little useful, even a little of the time? For the sake of debate, ignore the “nerf base boon duration” concept.

It’d throw out pvp balance without making it attractive enough to itemize for pve.

i’m sure that fits some definition of ‘useful’.

Fair enough, that’s a sufficiently large problem to count as a major strike against the idea.

Jade Nekotenshi.8702:

Narrrz.7532:

Jade Nekotenshi.8702:

Would adding Boon Duration into Healing Power make it even a little useful, even a little of the time? For the sake of debate, ignore the “nerf base boon duration” concept.

It’d throw out pvp balance without making it attractive enough to itemize for pve.

i’m sure that fits some definition of ‘useful’.

Fair enough, that’s a sufficiently large problem to count as a major strike against the idea.

It’s certainly something to keep in mind, but a blanket statement doesn’t really cover the how and why. Not a ‘strike’ so much as a ‘balancing concern.’ Done properly, both could be appeased.

TexZero.7910:

Or its actually not a problem. The problem lies with the players who have an antiquated mindset that you need healing power to be an effective support.

^THIS^

Explain to everyone WHY there must be a need to put points into HEALING POWER?

Rauderi.8706:

It’s certainly something to keep in mind, but a blanket statement doesn’t really cover the how and why. Not a ‘strike’ so much as a ‘balancing concern.’ Done properly, both could be appeased.

The question is, is there a ‘properly’? The way the game works now, healing is useful (but not essential) for pvp & useless (and unwanted) in pve.

If your aim is to fix it for pve, you’re either talking about bringing in a dedicated healing role (see: unwanted) or just generally making healing more powerful in the hopes that people will at least include some level in their build (see: useless)

trying to change it for pvp is an even more dangerous game. It’s not game changing now, for the most part, but i’m certain that more than a few matches have been decided by one team having a healing-focused player. I’m not sure dedicated healing is any more welcome in pvp than in pve; as soon as you buff it enough to be powerful, it becomes required, and then the random queue system either falls apart (No healer on our team; GG ANet) or needs to be completely rebuilt so that it will search out a player with one of the healing power amulets for each team (which will probably affect queue times)

Maybe there is another option i’m missing but i think that any change to healing power is going to be for the worse. I’ve posted extensively in my own thread (which i won’t plug here unsolicited) about how i think that healing power is a broken attribute which does not belong in the system we have in place – it would be much better as part of the trait system, or as a fringe benefit of vitality (or both).

Then again, maybe an obvious solution does exist, and i’m just too narrow minded to see it. /shrug

Ranael.6423:

Well almost every single weapon set brings all three aspects in a form or another, sometimes the support is more personal, sometimes more group oriented. Then your traits allow you to emphasize one or two aspects. Finally gear, as few to do with your build but only affect your comfort zone, only exception ow being condi build which can only work with a condi gear.

How does any of that matter? The fact remains that because every build can do everything only the builds that do so in the absolute most efficient way are viable if you don’t want to give yourself a skill ceiling that you can’t go past.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Now back to the topic:

---

USING and USEFULLNESS of attributes:

1. As is now we have Power which scales ALL physical dmg
2. As is now we have Condition Dmg which scales ALL condition based dmg
3. As is now we have Precision which scale criticals which are a guaranteed 150% of normal dmg HIT
4. As is now we have Ferocity which scales the 150% critical hit to be maximum 240+% in some builds
5. As is now we have Toughness which can mitigate all damage by 15-45%
6. We also have Condition Duration and Boon Duration which is no longer related to armors and builds or Traits for that matter and is now only found in runes and food. (Unless you’d consider Givers’ Weapons or Armor.)
7. As is now we have Vitality which only adds 10 hp for every point to a maxed 20000 points
8. And we have Healing which will affect healing, regeneration, and partial vampiric lifesteal, in numbers like follows:

You goofed hard here.

Toughness reduces all incoming physical damage, not all damage.

Conditions and Siphons(health gain) ignore armor rating/toughness entirely.

Condition Damage scales by damage, duration, lack of enemy vitality

Brother Grimm.5176:

TexZero.7910:

Or its actually not a problem. The problem lies with the players who have an antiquated mindset that you need healing power to be an effective support.

^THIS^

Explain to everyone WHY there must be a need to put points into HEALING POWER?

Because if healing doesn’t do anything it shouldn’t be there. The way the stats are set up on armour sets and weapons is as if the have equal weight in terms of effect and they don’t. It creates trap choices and that’s bad game design. I don’t expect perfect balance from stats because that is just impossible to achieve but at present healing power is nearly worthless. Choosing to skew your stats one way or another should have drawbacks and benefits and right now there are is a massive imbalance between skewing Beserker and anything else. The currently ongoing revamp of conditions is helping to address this as is some of the SW enemy design with very hard to avoid damage making toughness/vitality have a bit more use, but healing power’s generally awful scaling means it’s red-headed stepchild of the stats.

In short, if you’re going to have a stat that only effects your ability to function as support, it should have a major impact on your ability to perform that role otherwis it shouldn’t be there because it doesn’t serve a purpose otherwise.

I think Healing Power should tie in with reviving player.

In a Dungeon scenario, if 1 player goes down, a zealot geared player can res faster than 4 players without healing power.

runeblade.7514:

I think Healing Power should tie in with reviving player.

In a Dungeon scenario, if 1 player goes down, a zealot geared player can res faster than 4 players without healing power.

That won’t actually help in the least.

revenant centaur stance does NOT waste healing power at all.

I’m so glad that people are actually talking about this now. I’m still band-aiding all my bullet holes, and throwing out trash bags full of tear soaked Kleenex from all the crying I did over the petty mud slinging.

@Pax thank you. I’m so glad to know I’m not the only one that gets it.

As for the kitten mud slingers. Try not to knock the mountain of Dew cans off your desk in facroll nerd rage as I say this, because surely one of you will simply quote this post, and say right after a simply put sentance, that it means the exact opposite, so I’ll simply trust in the brain power of the majority of the readers here who are discussing what could be, and reasons for and against, (of which I have heard good arguments on both sides) to discern my true meaning.

Never did I, nor did any of the folks arguing in the positive on my general point, say that we are the arbiters of what should be.

What we did do is propose what we think would work.

Almost all of the detractors posting here have posts laced with sarcasm, rage, and misdirected hatred, probably stemming from a fear of change (probably why politics moves so slowly…)

Is healing power a wasted stat in PvE in the current state of the game? YES

Should healing power be a wasted stat in PvE? NO

Should the Berzerker, might stack, all DPS all the time, meta be nerfed? MAYBE

Should we force millions (or hundreds of thousands… idk) of players to change what they currently like to play? NO

Should we allow players preferred play style to matter in PvE content? YES

Is the current PvE content to easy? YES

Now I know the swinging of the nerf bat tends to be blocked by active mitigation, usually a torrent of rage , acting as an ageis (see what I did there) blocking change. This works to make change come slowly because the folks at A-Net like to be able to pay rent… and if a mass quantity of you speed runners up and leave, that becomes harder.

Is my proposal THE way to correct healing power? Probably not. Could the general concept of coupling healing power to boon duration be part of the big fix? I think so.

@ those who’ve mentioned it should be rolled into Vitality: I like this idea in general. but I think it will make vitality too valuable in the game’s current state. Will it be too valuable after it is professionally calculated and scaled by the team that DESIGNED the game we all love? Probably not. In truth A-net rarely jumps the shark.

@ those who think healing power is a useless and wasted stat: A-Net seems not to agree with you… and if a stat exists in the game, it should be worth something, sometimes in all game modes.

@those who don’t necessarily disagree with proposed changes for PvE but are worried about its changes to PvP: the condition ‘Confusion’ should be referenced here. Clearly it is possible to change the scaling for SPvP and WvWvW independent of PvE, and perhaps that’s required here.

@ those who think the game needs to be balanced at the encounter level: Your right. It does. But once it has been done…. when you ratchet up the mobs outgoing damage, and improve its AI, and make various AI’s work together…. healing power is still going to need a buff.

@ those who think the nerf bat should never be swung: Inflation sucks, as any American who is even pretending to pay attention can attest.

@ A-net: please read this thread to your design team, frustration, (witty parenthesis), foul hateful kitten and all. Because if they don’t know how we feel already, perhaps one of the ideas in here (for better or worse), will spark the creativity of the team that handles this kind of thing, and I’m betting that they will come up with something better than what any of us have said.

And thank all of you for bringing the spirit of this thread back to discussion once again.

And thanks in advance for all the polite responses.