Guild Wars 2

As much as I disagree hugely with people who want to geargrind for killer weapons, I really do think that a fundamental let-down with GW2 is how weak absolutely every weapon feels. If anyone here has spent time playing Mann v Machine, the new Team Fortress 2 co-op, you’ll know the sublime satisfaction in being massively outnumbered and overwhelmed but still able to hold your own through superior intelligence and weaponry.

I can’t help but fondly imagine a version of GW2 like this. Instead of taking three steps, then spending thirty seconds pumping an enemy full of arrows or buckshot, taking another three steps and repeating, imagine:

• One well-placed arrow takes down an enemy as he’s charging towards you. Balanced by a limited supply of arrows, forcing you to save them for enemies that are extremely dangerous up close. After the battle, you scavenge the bodies, retrieving some arrows from the corpses so that they can be used again.

• Standing knee-deep in skritt or grawl, swinging your greatsword, taking out three with every swing, as more of them swarm over you. Slowly but surely, their numbers are wearing you down, but you’re determined to take as many of them as possible.

• Facing a champion, knowing just a few accurately placed arrows will cripple him, but never getting a chance to line up the shot, because he chains together devastating moves so quickly that you’re expending all your energy dodging and weaving. He charges – you masterfully leap out of the way – he skids and nearly falls – take the shot!

• The first few wolves walk straight into your firetrap – it doesn’t just cause a temporary affliction, but causes them to yelp and roll, trying to put the flames out. The remaining wolves dodge round the edges of the trap, but at least you’ve thinned their numbers …

• You land the perfect backstab, jumping from the shadows, killing the separatist cannoneer with one blow. His friends see you, of course, and you have to disappear immediately to avoid being seriously injured, but with the cannoneer down, your team-mates can make it through a gap in the barrage. Now all four of you are behind the wall of cannon, and they can’t turn them quickly enough to face you. The advantage is suddenly yours.

• One of the trolls makes it into melee range. He’s about to knock you to the ground – you fire off your point blank shot – a special arrow with an explosive tip you only carry three of at any one time. It sends him flying back, over the ridge, into the valley, where he lands with a sickening crunch.

Those were some pretty exciting examples you mentioned.
I just wonder if it fits in GW2 or not…

Whilst I enjoyed Diablo 3, where my meteor shower spam would annihilate screenfuls of demons and regen mana at the same time to continue the spam, it doesnt seem like GW2 is that kind of game.

It’s a bit closer to something like Demon’s Souls, where players are ordinary soldiers and monsters are almost as powerful. Where even a trash mob at the start of the game can kill a max level character in a few swings.

If you have the best gear and go to a starter zone you do get that kind of feeling though. (since gear does not downlevel.)

It’s a bit closer to something like Demon’s Souls, where players are ordinary soldiers and monsters are almost as powerful.

But we’ve all killed hundreds – maybe thousands – of enemies. We’re all one-man slaughterwagons; we’re just doing it in slow motion.

as much as heroic as that is, it is not what GW2 was made for, what you are looking is something more akin to Dishonored, Assasin’s creed and the like, because, as much as fun as what you say is, you forget to multiply that for the number of players that there are, or take into account pvp balance.

1.- how would that work if there is a second bow user? and a third? and a full group?
2.- what happens when there are more than one player around? it may work for dungeons, but what about the open world where there are around 50 or so players? too weak mobs will make it be unchallenging
3.- thats not possible with the current mechanics
4.- no comment
5.- pvp thieves already do that, lol, pve would become so much easier
6.-as much as fun as that can be, it would also leave me a “wtf, thats it?”

im not saying these are not fun things, but, games still dont work like that, much less MMOs, but single player games do work out to some extent like that, specially the newer ones, so you may want to try those instead.

I admit (a) there are balance issues, and (b) it’s too late to see this implemented now. Might be nice as an alternative game-mode somewhere along the line though.

1.- how would that work if there is a second bow user? and a third? and a full group?

Maybe bow skills would require FPS aim. If there are three of you versus one beast – well, that makes sense. You’re ganging up – victory is assured. But imagine it was three v three. Do you waste arrows? Or do you try to do it with swords and axes?

2.- what happens when there are more than one player around? it may work for dungeons, but what about the open world where there are around 50 or so players? too weak mobs will make it be unchallenging

Unless there’s lots and lots of them. In TF2, sometimes you’re fighting 30-40 robots at once with four other players.

3.- thats not possible with the current mechanics

Agreed. For all its innovation, I see GW2 as a stepping stone towards realistic, involving combat, and I think boss enounters in particular are hamstrung by the simplicity of the system. One day games will move past the point where everyone is either fully functional (even at 1% of their healthbar) or dead and include states of degradation and injury. Then DPS won’t matter as much as tactics and skill.

5.- pvp thieves already do that, lol, pve would become so much easier

Well, they’d have to be more vulnerable as well. Playing a thief would become all about perfectly executing an infiltration and assassination – when the plan goes wrong, you run. Also, my point about cannons not turning – in this game currently, there’s no safe spot when facing heavy ordance – cannons and trebuchets can literally shoot at their own feet in order to hit you. How about making it so that its possible to approach them cleverly and avoid getting hit?

6.-as much as fun as that can be, it would also leave me a “wtf, thats it?

Except perhaps when you’ve later run out of arrows and you think, “I really shouldn’t have wasted it that time on the troll when I could have switched to axe …”

Event mobs scale, therefore making the amount of players irrelevant.

“But we’ve all killed hundreds – maybe thousands – of enemies. We’re all one-man slaughterwagons; we’re just doing it in slow motion.”

Same as Demon’s Souls – you eventually kill hundreds of enemies as well. But you do it one by one, in great danger and with razor-edged skill, not by spamming meteor shower with infinitely regenerating mana into a huge crowd. As fun as that would be :P

But yeah, we’ve all seen Boss Events ingame where 30+ players would be spamming spells at some overhealthed boss for 5 minutes. If you wanted crowd-wiping abilities at the same time then those sorts of player zergs would need 500 enemies onscreen or so. Which would rather tax most PC’s with GW2’s current engine.

Ultimately it’s just not the design.

Although I might suggest to the designers that maybe some events/areas could have more lower level trash monsters mixed in with the powerful ones, whose sole purpose is to be annihilated quickly so we can feel awesome :P

@Focksbot
dont know if you are into anime, but what you are looking for is “Sword Art Online”, (or close enough) an anime about virtual reality world mmos, wich will be when we get this which you are desiring (and i can assure you we would all like to have this heroic-ness feeling), but for the time being we do what we can with what we have, maybe in about 10 years we get closer to this.

Sounds like you’re referring to dungeon and vet/champion mobs.

In the open world, as a glass cannon Ele, I can safely say I get satisfaction from dropping 4k Crit meteor showers on 5+ enemies that are trapped in a stun field.

I get what the OP is saying and agree. There has always been a slight disconnect in all MMOs I can remember playing concerning the “realism” behind the effects of weaponry. Nowhere is this most evident than in Star Wars MMOs where you could be swinging a lightsaber at a boss for 20 mins or more. The damage the weapons do in game does not match up with the real world. Obviously one good hit from a lightsaber (or even a sword) would likely spell the end of fight for the one being struck. In a game world this is harder to manage and balance, as enemies would seem too weak and like the OP says developers counterbalance this by throwing huge swarms of mobs at the players which may not always make sense in the story.

There are so many variables in computer based combat damage (raw dps, dots, cc, buffs, debuffs) that it just becomes a nightmare to develop a system that endorses true balance and realistic gameplay. I would love a system where there are more misses and blocks than actual hits. This hints at a more defensive combat system – where some sort of defense rating (in conjunction with physics detection) ultimately decides if you are struck by an opponents weapon. Of course missing over and over again doesnt seem very fun either.

However, a mace to my face should have consequences other than a few hit points lost. Standing toe to toe and just trading blows has always left a sour taste in my mouth – its just an old approach to gaming that reminds me of old turn based combat or something – which in some senses was very balanced yet lacking in action when implemented. Throw magic in the mix and things get even more complicated. After all, how do you defend against a fireball with your sword?

Of course many MMO players dont like to hear this but I believe there should be more twitch based elements in action-adventure MMOs. The dodge mechanic is a good example. But also maybe consider a default block. I love how the block in GW2 blocks all damage – as a block should. Timing should matter as it does here, but we are still left with a toe to toe brawl where many direct hits are exchanged. Part of me misses the old D&D d20 system of AC where inherent defenses were actually useful and relevant – of course this always presented its own problems when translated to video game format.

I dont know, it’s just not easily accomplished – the balance. No one wants to be one or two shotted either, which is what a more realistic approach would allow for. Unless you managed it by having much more stout inherent defenses where such a strike was not so easily achieved. When you fully consider the difficulties of achieving such a system then the GW2 game play seems pretty well done IMO.

Oh where oh where is this hardcore hybrid D&D, Star Wars Academy, Guild Wars twitch MMO video game I am looking for?

Oh where oh where is this hardcore hybrid D&D, Star Wars Academy, Guild Wars twitch MMO video game I am looking for?

‘Zactly. I agree there could be a system where the battles are just as extended, but there’s more of an emphasis on the idea of missing or not getting through armour.

A very simplistic adjustment which wouldn’t change much mechanically but would perhaps help with realism is changing the health bar to a ‘last minute block/dodge initiative’ bar. Essentially, everything but the killing blow and the odd status effect shot is either missing or being countered. Visuals could be adjusted to match this – arrows pinging off tough hides, swords glancing off.

The important thing would be to throw in special animations and sounds for the finishers so that the player really gets the sense that that finishing blow has struck home that much more credibly than all before it. So instead of the arrow pinging off, it sinks into the throat with a solid thunk, the fletching sticking out, and a wet gurgling eminates from your enemy. Or a blow with the sword or axe severs heads and limbs, and sinks in so deep that your character has to take a moment to pull his weapon out of the guts of his fallen foe.

Play War of the Roses, granted it’s a PvP game it’s concept is to evade and block attacks because you can’t take many hits and there is also pros cons to leave ur helmet visor down which increase realism.
Leaving it up means better vision but easier for archers to fire an arrow at your eyes, leaving it down; better protection but less vision.

While I do enjoy GW2 because of lot of things; no quest backtracking, no mob stealing etc I hope that not all MMORPG’s move away from the D&D formula, I might be oldschool but I am of the opinion that D&D is the best platform to build a MMORPG upon but using features from GW2.