Guild Wars 2

Make us feel as if we make a difference.

That’s it. Not easy, maybe not even possible, but for all of you game companies out there wondering why people jump from game to game, or wondering why some people seem to stay forever:

If we leave, it’s because we don’t feel like we matter. If we stay, it’s because we feel like we do.

If you want to create the most popular game ever, find a way to let people feel like they contribute. Like they make a difference. Like they are important in either or both of the game world and the real world.

End of thesis.

Yip. That’s it. You’ve found it.

Every game company is full of cynical jerks who sit around during the entire development process spitballing methods of kitten’ing the community.

Speak for yourself. Sorry, that sounds harsher than I meant it. It is better to express your opinion using I and me, not we, unless you are actually an agreed upon spokesperson for a group.

I have “left” more games than most folks have played and not once was it because I wasn’t getting enough affirmation. Oddly enough, it was always because I wasn’t having fun anymore.

Bobby,

Nothing in what I said could possibly be construed as demeaning the intentions of the developers unless you read into it with anger already in your algorithm. I never even hinted that they weren’t trying to make great games or great experiences. I may be arrogantly assuming they don’t know what I’ve proposed, but I never attacked anyone for lack of desire to make great games.

Pandemoniac,

What causes you to feel like you’ve had fun?

I’m willing to go out on a line and say that it’s root is that you feel valuable in a way you can’t/don’t in real life. Yes, it’s a stretch. But give it about 10 minutes of real contemplation then get back to me.

What makes something “fun”?

Jesus wept, already in this game you’re affecting the world live and in realtime as opposed to picking up a shopping list of quests at a hub instead of mechanically ticking them off – doesn’t that make you feel at least a little bit more like you make a difference? If that’s not good enough then I’m afraid no MMO is going to be good enough, because at this stage of technology it’s simply not possible to provide the amount of variation that would be necessary to be prepared beforehand to be in the path of every possible player of every possible type.

gurugeorge.

I disagree that we’re affecting the world at all, much less “live and in real time.” And I take some offense at your insinuations. a) you seem to feel that we aren’t picking up quests at a hub then “ticking them off”, and I would agree, but given any given amount of game play time, we’re still finding quests and ticking them off in my opinion. The difference is semantics, and doesn’t change the root of my concept. To wit, we don’t change the world. We don’t matter. Neither as a group nor as individuals.

Please share your thoughts about how we are having an effect, with specifics, and those that have any impact greater than 10 minutes are most appreciated.

I also disagree with your assertion that technology isn’t at a place to allow for a more personalized experience in games, although since you make a blanket claim with no specifics, it’s difficult to pinpoint something to use as a disclaimer. But let me point at some relatively recent technology that belies your point: instancing.

If an instance can be created for a single player, or a group of players (as it definitely is in this game) then individual contributions/changes can be accounted for, even if only in small ways.

To say it’s not possible to create an environment that is (or at least appears to be) changed by an individual for lack of technology is simply untrue. Whether it’s feasible or not, I can’t say. But I suspect it’s actually more a matter of desire to do so and (more importantly) a knowledge that it will help the game experience that is at issue.

We failed to kill the grawl… they over took the game headquarters and deleted our characters…

You want that sort of “we make a difference”?

Derpinator I’ll give you my list of things that kept me playing Guild Wars 1 for 7+ Years

1) The Community
It was friendly . This is important because if a game if filled with a bunch of grentches your not going to be having fun no matter what .

2 )The Music

This may sound odd to some but music actually plays a roll in in gaming as it does in movies.If it doesn’t fit the atmosphere or action you’re going to be left wanting . As far as im concerned Guild Wars has one of the best Soundtracks and the Music seems to fit the atmosphere/action perfectly .

3) Helping Others

This kind of speaks for itself but going back to long forgotten missions ( in GW2 this would be Personal Story ) and helping someone out simply because i could .

4) Titles

Yes working on titles is fun to me and quite frankly they need more . You also need the ability to show them .

5)Community Events and holidays

Community events such as Wintersday and CNY always bring people back and are always fun .

6) Dungeons and Elite Missions

These were fun to me and i think having some elite dungeons Urgoz/The Deep style would be great .

pmiles.3489:

We failed to kill the grawl… they over took the game headquarters and deleted our characters…

You want that sort of “we make a difference”?

I have no idea what you’re talking about, but that would be interesting if it were actually true wouldn’t it?

Irritating. Painful. Even enraging. But unforgettable. Yes?

Adine.2184:

Derpinator I’ll give you my list of things that kept me playing Guild Wars 1 for 7+ Years

1) The Community
It was friendly . This is important because if a game if filled with a bunch of grentches your not going to be having fun no matter what .

2 )The Music

This may sound odd to some but music actually plays a roll in in gaming as it does in movies.If it doesn’t fit the atmosphere or action you’re going to be left wanting . As far as im concerned Guild Wars has one of the best Soundtracks and the Music seems to fit the atmosphere/action perfectly .

3) Helping Others

This kind of speaks for itself but going back to long forgotten missions ( in GW2 this would be Personal Story ) and helping someone out simply because i could .

4) Titles

Yes working on titles is fun to me and quite frankly they need more . You also need the ability to show them .

5)Community Events and holidays

Community events such as Wintersday and CNY always bring people back and are always fun .

6) Dungeons and Elite Missions

These were fun to me and i think having some elite dungeons Urgoz/The Deep style would be great .

Adine, a wonderful list! And thank you!

I would ask: did these things make you feel more a part of the world, as if you were part of a community, as if you made a difference?

edit [for some reason it changed the number to 1] number 2 is just pure appreciation of someone else’s efforts, and I get that it doesn’t make you feel meaningful in and of itself. But to my mind, every other item meant that you felt impactful. Not necessarily that you changed the world itself, but that you were a part of a world worth impacting.

Which doesn’t change my original point. We want to matter, and we want to matter in a place that mattering matters.

Ok, I know that’s a bit of a silly way to put it but look at the other side. If you made a difference in a world no one else would see, would you play MMO’s? The second M is “multiplayer”, and if that isn’t important… what is?

I stand by my point: we want to matter.

Well there are MMOs that have ultimate modes… you die, your character gets deleted. There is no second chance. Most players prefer not to play that way. The say they want a challenge, but in reality that’s not at all what they are after.

“Matter” is a state of mind… if you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter.

pmiles.3489:

Well there are MMOs that have ultimate modes… you die, your character gets deleted. There is no second chance. Most players prefer not to play that way. The say they want a challenge, but in reality that’s not at all what they are after.

“Matter” is a state of mind… if you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter.

Great point. And I still contend that if those who chose the “ultimate mode” and succeeded could have a real impact on the world as a whole, that many more people would try.

I might fail as an “ultimate mode” player to stamp my name on the “Uber Sword of Derpinator”. But I’d try. Oh yes. I’d try.

And even if I weren’t hardcore, I’d try to make a difference if I changed the world. I can’t tell a developer how to do this, but if everyone who played a game had a chance to change the world for future generations, I truly believe more would stay and try.

There are (a total guess) something like 25,000 dynamic events in this game. Maybe another 1,000 heart quests. Maybe another 500 regions. Maybe another 4,000 recipes in crafting. And 5,000 more items. And at least another 10,000 I have no idea about.

That’s (approximately) 50,000 opportunities to let players change the world, and that’s just assuming a “permanent” change happens. If you make the challenges to achieve “naming” weekly, that’s 200K a month, just on what I know about.

Yes, it’s a huge technical challenge.

But I think (again given my original point) that even the slim chance to matter makes a difference. And if that chance shows up month after month… can you say revenue?

Oh, by the way, this isn’t to say that ONLY changing the world in a large, nameable way matters. But some impact definitely does for all players.

imo.

Derpinator.2894:

What makes something “fun”?

Sharing unique experiences with friends.

After its been done once it is no longer unique and we move onto the next thing.

Derpinator.2894:

Adine.2184:

Derpinator I’ll give you my list of things that kept me playing Guild Wars 1 for 7+ Years

1) The Community
It was friendly . This is important because if a game if filled with a bunch of grentches your not going to be having fun no matter what .

2 )The Music

This may sound odd to some but music actually plays a roll in in gaming as it does in movies.If it doesn’t fit the atmosphere or action you’re going to be left wanting . As far as im concerned Guild Wars has one of the best Soundtracks and the Music seems to fit the atmosphere/action perfectly .

3) Helping Others

This kind of speaks for itself but going back to long forgotten missions ( in GW2 this would be Personal Story ) and helping someone out simply because i could .

4) Titles

Yes working on titles is fun to me and quite frankly they need more . You also need the ability to show them .

5)Community Events and holidays

Community events such as Wintersday and CNY always bring people back and are always fun .

6) Dungeons and Elite Missions

These were fun to me and i think having some elite dungeons Urgoz/The Deep style would be great .

Adine, a wonderful list! And thank you!

I would ask: did these things make you feel more a part of the world, as if you were part of a community, as if you made a difference?

edit [for some reason it changed the number to 1] number 2 is just pure appreciation of someone else’s efforts, and I get that it doesn’t make you feel meaningful in and of itself. But to my mind, every other item meant that you felt impactful. Not necessarily that you changed the world itself, but that you were a part of a world worth impacting.

Which doesn’t change my original point. We want to matter, and we want to matter in a place that mattering matters.

Ok, I know that’s a bit of a silly way to put it but look at the other side. If you made a difference in a world no one else would see, would you play MMO’s? The second M is “multiplayer”, and if that isn’t important… what is?

I stand by my point: we want to matter.

Yes it did . As for 2 it goes to Emotional involvement in the game as the job of music is to evoke an emotion . If you evoke sadness when you should be be evoking happiness then you havent done your job have you?

To bring up the “did i matter” point I can bring up several examples in fact . War In Kryta . When it starts there are white mantle everywhere in Kryta when it ends they are gone Winds of Change has a similar effect but a Canthan version . Alliance Battles moved the Kurzick/Luxon line on the map and definitely had an impact . Maxing titles extendeds Favor of the gods. Before the update to how Favor worked it was which ever server ( NA,Europe or Asian ) held Halls could enter UW or FoW and get blessings from he gods which made a big difference .

Crysto.7089:

Derpinator.2894:

What makes something “fun”?

Sharing unique experiences with friends.

After its been done once it is no longer unique and we move onto the next thing.

And if each repeated experience was unique BECAUSE it was experienced with friends?

And that could lead to changes the next time because you had to “hold” the tag of a member of the “Crysto/Name2/Name3/Name4/Name5” dungeon run as the group that had completed it the fastest with the fewest wipes?

Derpinator.2894:

Crysto.7089:

Derpinator.2894:

What makes something “fun”?

Sharing unique experiences with friends.

After its been done once it is no longer unique and we move onto the next thing.

And if each repeated experience was unique BECAUSE it was experienced with friends?

And that could lead to changes the next time because you had to “hold” the tag of a member of the “Crysto/Name2/Name3/Name4/Name5” dungeon run as the group that had completed it the fastest with the fewest wipes?

I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

I’m saying I have a group of friends (RL) and we like to do things together and then talk about them after. Be it finding a nice spot to climb, discovering a new beer, or playing a new video game. We find new things to do, always looking for the next challenge or thing we haven’t done yet. Maybe we’ll repeat stuff with slight variation (ok now you have to make it past that ridge with one hand!), but for the most part its on to whatever is new.

I don’t care if I matter in a game. I care about having a good time with good friends.

Adine.2184:

Derpinator.2894:

Adine.2184:

Derpinator I’ll give you my list of things that kept me playing Guild Wars 1 for 7+ Years

1) The Community
It was friendly . This is important because if a game if filled with a bunch of grentches your not going to be having fun no matter what .

2 )The Music

This may sound odd to some but music actually plays a roll in in gaming as it does in movies.If it doesn’t fit the atmosphere or action you’re going to be left wanting . As far as im concerned Guild Wars has one of the best Soundtracks and the Music seems to fit the atmosphere/action perfectly .

3) Helping Others

This kind of speaks for itself but going back to long forgotten missions ( in GW2 this would be Personal Story ) and helping someone out simply because i could .

4) Titles

Yes working on titles is fun to me and quite frankly they need more . You also need the ability to show them .

5)Community Events and holidays

Community events such as Wintersday and CNY always bring people back and are always fun .

6) Dungeons and Elite Missions

These were fun to me and i think having some elite dungeons Urgoz/The Deep style would be great .

Adine, a wonderful list! And thank you!

I would ask: did these things make you feel more a part of the world, as if you were part of a community, as if you made a difference?

edit [for some reason it changed the number to 1] number 2 is just pure appreciation of someone else’s efforts, and I get that it doesn’t make you feel meaningful in and of itself. But to my mind, every other item meant that you felt impactful. Not necessarily that you changed the world itself, but that you were a part of a world worth impacting.

Which doesn’t change my original point. We want to matter, and we want to matter in a place that mattering matters.

Ok, I know that’s a bit of a silly way to put it but look at the other side. If you made a difference in a world no one else would see, would you play MMO’s? The second M is “multiplayer”, and if that isn’t important… what is?

I stand by my point: we want to matter.

Yes it did . As for 2 it goes to Emotional involvement in the game as the job of music is to evoke an emotion . If you evoke sadness when you should be be evoking happiness then you havent done your job have you?

To bring up the “did i matter” point I can bring up several examples in fact . War In Kryta . When it starts there are white mantle everywhere in Kryta when it ends they are gone Winds of Change has a similar effect but a Canthan version . Alliance Battles moved the Kurzick/Luxon line on the map and definitely had an impact . Maxing titles extendeds Favor of the gods. Before the update to how Favor worked it was which ever server ( NA,Europe or Asian ) held Halls could enter UW or FoW and get blessings from he gods which made a big difference .

I have to concede here as I have no idea what most of this means.

You win

I have 1 level 80 toon with about 50 “extra” levels and a few dozen dungeon tokens. Maybe I’ve missed something.

So I resign from the argument as I’m experienced in this game. But I won’t be struggling to reach your heights. To me it doesn’t seem worth the effort, but I wish you the best. And as I resign, I stand by my point, which is WHY I’m resigning.

I don’t matter.

Be well..

Crysto.7089:

Derpinator.2894:

Crysto.7089:

Derpinator.2894:

What makes something “fun”?

Sharing unique experiences with friends.

After its been done once it is no longer unique and we move onto the next thing.

And if each repeated experience was unique BECAUSE it was experienced with friends?

And that could lead to changes the next time because you had to “hold” the tag of a member of the “Crysto/Name2/Name3/Name4/Name5” dungeon run as the group that had completed it the fastest with the fewest wipes?

I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

I’m saying I have a group of friends (RL) and we like to do things together and then talk about them after. Be it finding a nice spot to climb, discovering a new beer, or playing a new video game. We find new things to do, always looking for the next challenge or thing we haven’t done yet. Maybe we’ll repeat stuff with slight variation (ok now you have to make it past that ridge with one hand!), but for the most part its on to whatever is new.

I don’t care if I matter in a game. I care about having a good time with good friends.

I’m out of this discussion, but I’d ask you this: if you don’t matter, why play at all? Why not just ask for “ghost mode” and FOLLOW your friends while they do stuff?

’Night.

Derpinator.2894:

gurugeorge.

I disagree that we’re affecting the world at all, much less “live and in real time.” And I take some offense at your insinuations. a) you seem to feel that we aren’t picking up quests at a hub then “ticking them off”, and I would agree, but given any given amount of game play time, we’re still finding quests and ticking them off in my opinion. The difference is semantics, and doesn’t change the root of my concept. To wit, we don’t change the world. We don’t matter. Neither as a group nor as individuals.

Please share your thoughts about how we are having an effect, with specifics, and those that have any impact greater than 10 minutes are most appreciated.

I also disagree with your assertion that technology isn’t at a place to allow for a more personalized experience in games, although since you make a blanket claim with no specifics, it’s difficult to pinpoint something to use as a disclaimer. But let me point at some relatively recent technology that belies your point: instancing.

If an instance can be created for a single player, or a group of players (as it definitely is in this game) then individual contributions/changes can be accounted for, even if only in small ways.

To say it’s not possible to create an environment that is (or at least appears to be) changed by an individual for lack of technology is simply untrue. Whether it’s feasible or not, I can’t say. But I suspect it’s actually more a matter of desire to do so and (more importantly) a knowledge that it will help the game experience that is at issue.

I’m not a programmer, but I’ve read quite deeply about this stuff and trust me, it’s not possible beyond the level GW2’s doing it at the moment. So far as themepark games are concerned, Anet have really pushed the envelope as far as it can go with DEs, and in a very elegant way (without using too much “phasing” – see below).

The only way you can get “players affecting world” is a) a text-based game that doesn’t have any visual assets to design and render, or b) by a purely player-driven sandbox type of game like EVE Online, and even then all that’s actually changing is something abstract (i.e. “sovereignty”) – and, again, EVE doesn’t need a whole lot of assets to be created and rendered to represent the abstract change in the virtual world. A game like SWG also enables player-interaction to feel like it’s players affecting the world, because they’re affecting each other by being part of the world’s furniture for each other.

There’s one more way of doing it in a themepark game, by using something called “phasing”. LOTRO uses this a bit, as well as DDO. GW1 used to use it a lot, and the intro to GW2 uses it (the big boss fight at the start is in a different version of the starter area than the one you actually start the game in). But the downside of it is that the “phases” (e.g. a part of the world that’s a happy village, but after an even in which you participate, is a burnt-out wreck of a village) split up the persistent world feel. It can get very complex and messy and somewhat lose the sense of the game being in a single, persistent world.

So yeah, short of phasing, something like DEs is the only way it’s going to happen in a themepark game. And DEs work – at least for me. There have been numerous occasions when there’s been only me and another guy at a DE and we’ve held off mobs from taking over a spot. That gives the requisite illusion of change. There have also been occasios where I’ve started off a conversation with someone that’s led to a chain of DEs in which large numbers of players participate. That also give the requisite feeling that I made a difference. If you wander around in GW2 pretending to be an adventurer, things like this will happen, and you will get about as much of the feeling of “making a difference” as it’s possible to get in a themepark game, without overuse of phasing, at the present stage of technology.

gurugeorge.9857:

Derpinator.2894:

gurugeorge.

I disagree that we’re affecting the world at all, much less “live and in real time.” And I take some offense at your insinuations. a) you seem to feel that we aren’t picking up quests at a hub then “ticking them off”, and I would agree, but given any given amount of game play time, we’re still finding quests and ticking them off in my opinion. The difference is semantics, and doesn’t change the root of my concept. To wit, we don’t change the world. We don’t matter. Neither as a group nor as individuals.

Please share your thoughts about how we are having an effect, with specifics, and those that have any impact greater than 10 minutes are most appreciated.

I also disagree with your assertion that technology isn’t at a place to allow for a more personalized experience in games, although since you make a blanket claim with no specifics, it’s difficult to pinpoint something to use as a disclaimer. But let me point at some relatively recent technology that belies your point: instancing.

If an instance can be created for a single player, or a group of players (as it definitely is in this game) then individual contributions/changes can be accounted for, even if only in small ways.

To say it’s not possible to create an environment that is (or at least appears to be) changed by an individual for lack of technology is simply untrue. Whether it’s feasible or not, I can’t say. But I suspect it’s actually more a matter of desire to do so and (more importantly) a knowledge that it will help the game experience that is at issue.

I’m not a programmer, but I’ve read quite deeply about this stuff and trust me, it’s not possible beyond the level GW2’s doing it at the moment. So far as themepark games are concerned, Anet have really pushed the envelope as far as it can go with DEs, and in a very elegant way (without using too much “phasing” – see below).

The only way you can get “players affecting world” is a) a text-based game that doesn’t have any visual assets to design and render, or b) by a purely player-driven sandbox type of game like EVE Online, and even then all that’s actually changing is something abstract (i.e. “sovereignty”) – and, again, EVE doesn’t need a whole lot of assets to be created and rendered to represent the abstract change in the virtual world. A game like SWG also enables player-interaction to feel like it’s players affecting the world, because they’re affecting each other by being part of the world’s furniture for each other.

There’s one more way of doing it in a themepark game, by using something called “phasing”. LOTRO uses this a bit, as well as DDO. GW1 used to use it a lot, and the intro to GW2 uses it (the big boss fight at the start is in a different version of the starter area than the one you actually start the game in). But the downside of it is that the “phases” (e.g. a part of the world that’s a happy village, but after an even in which you participate, is a burnt-out wreck of a village) split up the persistent world feel. It can get very complex and messy and somewhat lose the sense of the game being in a single, persistent world.

So yeah, short of phasing, something like DEs is the only way it’s going to happen in a themepark game. And DEs work – at least for me. There have been numerous occasions when there’s been only me and another guy at a DE and we’ve held off mobs from taking over a spot. That gives the requisite illusion of change. There have also been occasios where I’ve started off a conversation with someone that’s led to a chain of DEs in which large numbers of players participate. That also give the requisite feeling that I made a difference. If you wander around in GW2 pretending to be an adventurer, things like this will happen, and you will get about as much of the feeling of “making a difference” as it’s possible to get in a themepark game, without overuse of phasing, at the present stage of technology.

I am a programmer. It is possible. It’s really, REALLY hard.

And it’s the true next generation of MMORPGs.

I’ll wait.

Derpinator.2894:

I’m out of this discussion, but I’d ask you this: if you don’t matter, why play at all? Why not just ask for “ghost mode” and FOLLOW your friends while they do stuff?

’Night.

Because it offers experiences we have not yet had.

Watching a movie is not the same as playing a game. Interactivity adds a lot. Even if its just jumping from object to object just to see if you can make it across a farm without touching the ground. That has no impact on the game world. I don’t matter for jumping around. And who cares? Its still fun.

Don’t worry, slugger. Even if you think you don’t matter to the game developers, you still matter to me.

hugs for everyone

Derpinator.2894:

What causes you to feel like you’ve had fun?

I’m willing to go out on a line and say that it’s root is that you feel valuable in a way you can’t/don’t in real life. Yes, it’s a stretch. But give it about 10 minutes of real contemplation then get back to me.

What makes something fun? That’s a really complicated question.

For me, it’s primarily puzzle solving and fresh information. I’m a collector, except I collect information – not just facts, but stories, imagery, whatever. I’m not picky. That’s why I love GW2 – I have fun exploring. I also have fun getting deep into the guts of the game mechanics and taking something everyone says is kitten and figuring out how to make it viable. I’m even getting a kick out of watching the virtual market in GW2 play out and I’m waiting to see what happens when more of the population moves up into higher levels. The pursuit of knowledge – that’s what makes my endorphins fire.

I have never been the player that tops the DPS meter. I won’t be the the person in my guild that has the commander book. I won’t be the first person to hit the level cap in any game, or the first person to craft a legendary, or whatever. I don’t need that to enjoy myself. Maybe it’s because I’m really good at what I do for a living that I don’t need someone to recognize my greatness in a game. I know I’m great – if y’all can’t see it, that’s your problem

So, back to my original point. You really should get in the habit of expressing your ideas as coming from yourself – it empowers you. I don’t know how to explain this in text without sounding like a jerk – I’m not trying to tear you down, I’m trying to give you some feedback that might be helpful. Using “we” to express your opinion when no-one is standing behind you nodding makes you look weak. You don’t need a bunch of imaginary friends that agree with you to persuade folks you have a good idea. Frankly, whenever someone pulls out the imaginary friends, it’s less persuasive to me.

If there are really a lot of people that agree with you, and you say “I believe this to be true”, they will show up and say “me too!”. If no-one shows up and says me too! that doesn’t mean you’re wrong, it just means that there are a bunch of folks that you need to enlighten

One thing that could save gaming is if companies stopped trying to copy other games, and stopped falsely advertising what their game delivers.

With the degradation of society, people have become more like sheep and somewhere along the line, deceiving your consumers became common practice for marketing.

Personally, I think they should just start world servers at different times during the year, and that world runs regardless if anyone shows up or not. If you are there on day one and you and a few others manage to kill a camp of bandits, that camp will be destroyed for all other players in the game.

What you do actually, truly matters. The story/ world will run until its resolved, one way or another.

So, what do new players do? They have a few options.

1. Wait until a new server/world starts
2. Join the story in progress
3. Play in a “holding” area where you do other tasks (farmer, training, exploring) until the server starts.

I personally would play a game like this. I would get to know the players on my server. I would log in every day to make sure I helped and didn’t miss awesome stuff, and I would create a name for myself.

what you ask is simply not possible in a multiplayer game. If your actions had LASTING consequences (they allready have consequences and I think they implemented that feature nicely) a lot of players would be excluded from content. Think of the centaur war maps. Players conquer them and capture all areas quite quickly. Now what happens in your scenario? All centaurs driven away, players and NPCs hold the fortresses with ease. The game is dead. You have lasting results to some degree in WvW and just read up on the complaints about player factions not being able to turn the tide because the battle was more or less set even before they joined the map.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Personally, I think they should just start world servers at different times during the year, and that world runs regardless if anyone shows up or not. (snip)I would log in every day to make sure I helped and didn’t miss awesome stuff, and I would create a name for myself.

I wouldn’t play that type of game. I have a more than full time job with enough stress. I wouldn’t want that kind of pressure put on my play time. It’s annoying enough to have to wait in a queue when I want to get into WvW – I’m not going to wait in a queue for my game to start, and then feel pressured to spend all of my free time in the game so I can miss as little content as possible.

It would really stink to have a work obligation at the same time the server decides to launch a major offensive and never have the opportunity to experience it that content.

The last two responses are, in my opinion why we have ridiculous respawn rates, repeating quests, and a world that really doesn’t care if you’re part of it or not.

People seem to find time to commit to a lot of things in life, why not a world wide MMO game? There is no pressure to play at all in my opinion. You’re already missing out on content in GW2 because it’s happening without you. Players are gaining levels and moving out of the starter zones, the trading post is filling with stuff, and a community is being built in-game and out.

The way this would work is for the game to slow down and actually have events that mattered. If the quest was, “Collect 5 gears” then it wouldn’t be like going down to the grocery store and buying a bulk family pack. It would be something that would take planning and effort.

I dunno, I think it could work, but it would mean that players would have to shift the mentality from, “want it now…now what?” to “The quest is the game, and the game is the quest.”

Doesn’t WoW already do this with zone phasing? Once you complete a certain part of the story, the zone “changes” for that character forever. It can change multiple times, depending on how many layers are built in. So yeah, it can be done. Its just nobody but Blizzard knows how to do it.

FarFarAway.6579:

Doesn’t WoW already do this with zone phasing? Once you complete a certain part of the story, the zone “changes” for that character forever. It can change multiple times, depending on how many layers are built in. So yeah, it can be done. Its just nobody but Blizzard knows how to do it.

Blizzard doesn’t even know how to do it (unless it got better since I stopped playing). Phasing in and around ICC ended up being a terrible thing. It was cool from the story aspect, but when it permanently affected your game world and separated your group into what are basically separate instances, with no obvious indication of who was phased, who wasn’t, or what other players had to do to get out of one phase and into another, it was just annoying.

Apakal.5718:

Blizzard doesn’t even know how to do it (unless it got better since I stopped playing). Phasing in and around ICC ended up being a terrible thing. It was cool from the story aspect, but when it permanently affected your game world and separated your group into what are basically separate instances, with no obvious indication of who was phased, who wasn’t, or what other players had to do to get out of one phase and into another, it was just annoying.

Agree. It was improved in Cata, but not perfected. It still needs work. But that’s how development in MMOs happens. One step at a time. I hope they keep perfecting it and when Titan comes out, maybe we will have a truly revolutionary MMO.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Personally, I think they should just start world servers at different times during the year, and that world runs regardless if anyone shows up or not. If you are there on day one and you and a few others manage to kill a camp of bandits, that camp will be destroyed for all other players in the game.

What you do actually, truly matters. The story/ world will run until its resolved, one way or another.

So, what do new players do? They have a few options.

1. Wait until a new server/world starts
2. Join the story in progress
3. Play in a “holding” area where you do other tasks (farmer, training, exploring) until the server starts.

I personally would play a game like this. I would get to know the players on my server. I would log in every day to make sure I helped and didn’t miss awesome stuff, and I would create a name for myself.

This is basically a sandbox. Check out ArcheAge.

FarFarAway.6579:

Doesn’t WoW already do this with zone phasing? Once you complete a certain part of the story, the zone “changes” for that character forever. It can change multiple times, depending on how many layers are built in. So yeah, it can be done. Its just nobody but Blizzard knows how to do it.

LOTRO also has zones which feature phasing. Its not just WoW.

In SWTOR you kill the emperor, look how that game turned out.

i totally agree with the OP.
an mmo content should be influenced/led by the players actions.
(to a certain degree).
maybe elect a council, choose a king, and council have some decision to take once in a while.
and players would try to get elected on the council i guess.
or
player giving quest to other players.

EVE Online does that i think.
but i never tried it.
actually for many, eve is the revolution.

thing is candy fantasy mmorpg (as much as i like them) are meant to be enjoyable by younger and less “pro gamer” type of players.

Apakal.5718:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Personally, I think they should just start world servers at different times during the year, and that world runs regardless if anyone shows up or not. If you are there on day one and you and a few others manage to kill a camp of bandits, that camp will be destroyed for all other players in the game.

What you do actually, truly matters. The story/ world will run until its resolved, one way or another.

So, what do new players do? They have a few options.

1. Wait until a new server/world starts
2. Join the story in progress
3. Play in a “holding” area where you do other tasks (farmer, training, exploring) until the server starts.

I personally would play a game like this. I would get to know the players on my server. I would log in every day to make sure I helped and didn’t miss awesome stuff, and I would create a name for myself.

This is basically a sandbox. Check out ArcheAge.

true, didn´t think of that. Eve is a pure sandbox game, the whole world is more or less dominated by the players. But it works there because of the anything goes pvp approach. I am pretty sure 90 % of the current GW2 players would run screaming, their arms flailing when the game would turn into something like that.

Algreg.3629:

what you ask is simply not possible in a multiplayer game. If your actions had LASTING consequences (they allready have consequences and I think they implemented that feature nicely) a lot of players would be excluded from content. Think of the centaur war maps. Players conquer them and capture all areas quite quickly. Now what happens in your scenario? All centaurs driven away, players and NPCs hold the fortresses with ease. The game is dead. You have lasting results to some degree in WvW and just read up on the complaints about player factions not being able to turn the tide because the battle was more or less set even before they joined the map.

Real consequences and “mattering” are VERY possible in MMO games. The thing is, the game has to be built around the idea from the get-go and it’s already far too late for that to happen in GW2.

Ever heard of Eve Online? You should read some of the stories that have come out of what the players have done in this game. It’s absolutely amazing.

This forum is for discussion of Guild Wars 2, not general gaming discussion.