Guild Wars 2

Vertical progression is here, and it’s here to stay. The AMA confirmed that much for us. While the realized increase in power may be quite small, it has had a large effect on the content that people are choosing to play and is affecting how people are grouping up. I believe this is largely because many players feel compelled to reach the maximum power level: max character level + max gear.

What if the top-tier/BiS is very easy to get, but that it could be continually upgraded in small increments via “enchanting?” Let’s suppose that +stat upgrade on a piece of gear is open-ended, but that the cost goes up exponentially as you want to put more and more +stats on it.

This would allow vertical progression that is essentially unlimited, but the cost to increment becomes prohibitive at some point…say the practical limit for most hardcore players is an increase of +10% to stats ([naked + base top-tier stats]*1.10) after several months of play.

What would happen if no one could ever truly max? Ironically, I think this would actually be better than having increasing discrete tiers. The progression would have smaller increments instead of an all-or-none big jump. No one would be driven to get the BiS because there is no “best,” only “better.” I would also reduce elitism with enchanting by making it so that pinging gear only shows base stats without the increase from enchanting.

Vertical progression is what it is; a gear treadmill that never ends. There are different, more modern, ways to approach gaming. This is tired and it makes people tired. I say enjoy the game while you can.

Since there is this horrible gear progression thing inbound for the game. I just hope Anet decides to allow current gear (you know the stuff we’ll otherwise throwaway) to be upgraded to the next level. I’d rather not look like some clown as I would in most other games.

why dont we add belt buckles, spell threads, weapon chains and leg armours also.

The problem is not with vertical progression, but that GW2 was advertised as a game with horizontal progression, and ended up having none. Instead of working on adding horizontal progression (which is hard and would require numerous new gameplay mechanics), ArenaNet took the easy way out to add a gameplay element that didn’t fit in with the rest of the game at all. Vertical progression is great when done right. ArenaNet did not do it right. I’m tired of the whole “we’re the few enlightened amongst a herd of donkeys following carrots” attitude that this forum is teeming with.

deborah.2068:

why dont we add belt buckles, spell threads, weapon chains and leg armours also.

Honestly, we are more likely to see upgradeable items with an increasing chance of resetting or outright breaking with a cash shop item to prevent it then that.

Merthax.5172:

What if the top-tier/BiS is very easy to get, but that it could be continually upgraded in small increments via “enchanting?” Let’s suppose that +stat upgrade on a piece of gear is open-ended, but that the cost goes up exponentially as you want to put more and more +stats on it.

I love this idea. Here’s how they might be able to implement this:

1. You can “enchant” top-tier items so they get stronger. To let players know how far they’ve managed to do this, each successful enchant adds a +1 to the name of the item. Hence, a sword that has been enchanted five times would be “Sword +5”.

2. The first few enchanting levels will always succeed. However, to make the cost go up exponentially, as you suggest, each tier of levels after that will have a random chance to fail. Failure means your item decreases a random number of enchantment levels.

3. To make things more in line with the recent focus on RNG, we will also introduce the chance for an enchantment to fail critically. A critical failure causes the item to break. Broken items cannot be used, but can be repaired using an item from the cash shop, or can be recombined in the mystic forge using some t6 material, ectos, and the original broken item.

4. To balance this all out, an item that allows you to guarantee a successful enchant should also be introduced in the cash shop, so that casual players are able to keep up.

This is just a rough guideline, but I’m sure that Arenanet, backed by the massive MMORPG experience of NCSoft and hence Nexon, will be able to make sure that their implementation of this will be flawless.

do you really call grinding and vertical progression to the farm GW2 offers…game is too easy.

xeph.8410:

Merthax.5172:

What if the top-tier/BiS is very easy to get, but that it could be continually upgraded in small increments via “enchanting?” Let’s suppose that +stat upgrade on a piece of gear is open-ended, but that the cost goes up exponentially as you want to put more and more +stats on it.

I love this idea. Here’s how they might be able to implement this:

1. You can “enchant” top-tier items so they get stronger. To let players know how far they’ve managed to do this, each successful enchant adds a +1 to the name of the item. Hence, a sword that has been enchanted five times would be “Sword +5”.

2. The first few enchanting levels will always succeed. However, to make the cost go up exponentially, as you suggest, each tier of levels after that will have a random chance to fail. Failure means your item decreases a random number of enchantment levels.

3. To make things more in line with the recent focus on RNG, we will also introduce the chance for an enchantment to fail critically. A critical failure causes the item to break. Broken items cannot be used, but can be repaired using an item from the cash shop, or can be recombined in the mystic forge using some t6 material, ectos, and the original broken item.

4. To balance this all out, an item that allows you to guarantee a successful enchant should also be introduced in the cash shop, so that casual players are able to keep up.

This is just a rough guideline, but I’m sure that Arenanet, backed by the massive MMORPG experience of NCSoft and hence Nexon, will be able to make sure that their implementation of this will be flawless.

ROFLOL

You just described the generic and HATED system of a lot of Asian MMO games, so I’m going to assume there was either some sarcasm here, trolling or general shenanigans

Here’s an example of a Possible conversation if this is implemented:
Player a: check out my +3 sword <@=)
Player b: lololol noob, chek out mah swrd is OVER 9000

Raine.1394:

There are different, more modern, ways to approach gaming.

I really hate every post I see saying this… There is no such thing as “modern” progression. MMORPGs have had the same progression archetypes since forever. There is ONLY three ways to approach a MMOs progression.

1)Vertical

2) Horizontal

3) Both – This is the only one that really varies by being less straightforward.

The only thing is Vertical progression is becoming more and more abused since WoW grew and destroyed the genre. Games like DAOC and FFXI used both, in their own ways. It has all been done before, just not as varied since the WoW killing/cloning era.

The problem is the mindset of players these days. A niche tries to ‘force’ the need for the 1% difference. The majority then feels pressured to gain a 1% difference. This isn’t WoW. Standing still spamming buttons will not make every % gain matter. Skill > Gear still applies currently so players need to chill.

If Anet releases another gear set that is lower/higher than legendary, then players can grab their pitch forks.

Until then, yell at them for pushing WvW to the side. They promoted this game as if WvW was a primary focus. That is where a lot of vertical(not gear) progression should occur. Including more maps and more priority for better tactics instead of join ‘ball of death’. +1 to a zerg is far too effective. Also, the culling bug. Being a ghost buster is not fun.

xeph.8410:

Merthax.5172:

What if the top-tier/BiS is very easy to get, but that it could be continually upgraded in small increments via “enchanting?” Let’s suppose that +stat upgrade on a piece of gear is open-ended, but that the cost goes up exponentially as you want to put more and more +stats on it.

I love this idea. Here’s how they might be able to implement this:

1. You can “enchant” top-tier items so they get stronger. To let players know how far they’ve managed to do this, each successful enchant adds a +1 to the name of the item. Hence, a sword that has been enchanted five times would be “Sword +5”.

2. The first few enchanting levels will always succeed. However, to make the cost go up exponentially, as you suggest, each tier of levels after that will have a random chance to fail. Failure means your item decreases a random number of enchantment levels.

3. To make things more in line with the recent focus on RNG, we will also introduce the chance for an enchantment to fail critically. A critical failure causes the item to break. Broken items cannot be used, but can be repaired using an item from the cash shop, or can be recombined in the mystic forge using some t6 material, ectos, and the original broken item.

4. To balance this all out, an item that allows you to guarantee a successful enchant should also be introduced in the cash shop, so that casual players are able to keep up.

This is just a rough guideline, but I’m sure that Arenanet, backed by the massive MMORPG experience of NCSoft and hence Nexon, will be able to make sure that their implementation of this will be flawless.

Hello there, I see you’ve been playing http://iro.ragnarokonline.com/ , as it seems all four of those ideas are a direct rip from it.

OPs idea would be a pretty big improvement for the grind/treadmill/VP crowd, so that’s a plus I guess. You cannot eliminate the HP crowds desire to stop feeling pressured into VP by making it open ended. It may fool a few blissfully ignorant players, but the majority would still feel bad whenever they decide to spend time and resources to go for skins above stats, even if it’s a ridiculous, unreasonable grind.

Trying to find compromises is a waste of time if the motivations of two groups of players are polar opposites. Embrace the game for what it is and will become – or leave.

xeph.8410:

I love this idea. Here’s how they might be able to implement this:

1. You can “enchant” top-tier items so they get stronger. To let players know how far they’ve managed to do this, each successful enchant adds a +1 to the name of the item. Hence, a sword that has been enchanted five times would be “Sword +5”.

2. The first few enchanting levels will always succeed. However, to make the cost go up exponentially, as you suggest, each tier of levels after that will have a random chance to fail. Failure means your item decreases a random number of enchantment levels.

3. To make things more in line with the recent focus on RNG, we will also introduce the chance for an enchantment to fail critically. A critical failure causes the item to break. Broken items cannot be used, but can be repaired using an item from the cash shop, or can be recombined in the mystic forge using some t6 material, ectos, and the original broken item.

4. To balance this all out, an item that allows you to guarantee a successful enchant should also be introduced in the cash shop, so that casual players are able to keep up.

This is just a rough guideline, but I’m sure that Arenanet, backed by the massive MMORPG experience of NCSoft and hence Nexon, will be able to make sure that their implementation of this will be flawless.

Ouch, not what I had in mind at all. This wasn’t a suggestion for the game or anything, I’m just curious how VP affects player behavior. If there is a maximum tier that is easily obtained, but with open-ended enchantments, would this satisfy both types of players (HP & VP), satisfy no one, or somewhere in between?

Moreover, in order to keep all areas and zones relevant, enchantments could require components of all tiers from all parts of the map. Which components are required could be dependent on which item slot is being enchanted and/or what stat is being added.

Merthax.5172:

Ouch, not what I had in mind at all. This wasn’t a suggestion for the game or anything, I’m just curious how VP affects player behavior. If there is a maximum tier that is easily obtained, but with open-ended enchantments, would this satisfy both types of players (HP & VP), satisfy no one, or somewhere in between?

The VP group would complain about how unfair the system is, and that it is not possible to get the “best” in a time frame they think is OK. Look at the threads in the dungeon forums complaining that, “So-and-so got 6 Ascended Rings and I got a rock, it’s unfair!” This group is not process-oriented, they are results-oriented. You have proposed a never-ending process.

The but-you-promised group would view your idea as a breach of promise because it is still better gear. Part of the subset who don’t like VP but chose to continue to play might be OK with the idea, but only if implemented in such a way that they could progress in whatever part of the game suits their interests.

Sure, some would be satisfied, but trying to satisfy both groups is just not going to happen. At best, your idea would likely please a minority of both VP and HP minded folks. We might get to find out, if Ascended becomes more readily available in various aspects of game-play, depending on how that gets implemented.

Merthax.5172:

What if the top-tier/BiS is very easy to get, but that it could be continually upgraded in small increments via “enchanting?” Let’s suppose that +stat upgrade on a piece of gear is open-ended, but that the cost goes up exponentially as you want to put more and more +stats on it.

Nice idea. I suggest to use skill points/karma/gold/etc… for this.

For example, if you have a precision + power + condition damage item, adding +1 to each stat would cost [5 skill points, 5.000 karma]. And then, the next would cost [10 skill points, 10.000 karma], and then [20 skill points, 20.000 karma] and etc… until it becomes (almost) impossible like [320 skill points, 320.000 karma] and etc… etc… infinitly.

Each piece could have different ways to improve, to encourage players doing every kind of things in the game. For example, a jewel could be improve with ore (ex: begins with 5 orichalchium ingots for one upgrade), a helm with skill points and karma, a chestpiece with fractal tokens, shoulderpads for having achievement points, etc…

I refuse fractals(nice dungeon i won’t deny that but..) i refuse treadmill for gear this is not why i bought GW2 but it seems people only party doing instance and PVE WORLD is EMPTY:(