Operant Conditioning Chamber
I +1ed your post but I don’t know if that shows up anywhere.
sidenote – can ANet implement a system on these forums so we can see which posts were +1ed?
I don’t these people have played a game that’s been genuinely ruined by this system.
See: Dungeon Defenders
Trendy added a MASSIVE gear treadmill, bordering on korean MMO grind. When the game first came out, you could finish it by just playing, no grind needed.
Then they added nightmare and mythical, which wasn’t bad.
Then transcendent which took an absolutely massive amount of time to get (I’m talking 12+ hours playing straight, you can’t take breaks either, it has to be in one sitting).
They didn’t even stop there, 2 more rarity levels, it’s ridiculous.
It’s really sad that in a day and age where information is so readily and freely available, people still allow themselves to be conditioned in this manner.
Free your minds people. Video games were fun before experience and equipment grinds were added into virtually every single game. There is fun to be had outside of a soulless, circular gear grind.
I’d rather have a skinnerbox than this: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon
The grind to get a legendary weapon is ridiculous. It’s funny, cause I thought Anet hated grinding, what with the anti-farming code and stuff like that.
Are we getting psychology in here?
Because I think you have a textbook case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
;)
The fact of the matter is this. As far as you see it, players wanting rewards makes them animals. But that’s faulty logic. They’ll still do exactly what they’re currently doing (which you are implying isnt animal-istic) but they just want extra stuff for it. Which is more materialistic that anything else.
I’d rather have a skinnerbox than this: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon
The grind to get a legendary weapon is ridiculous. It’s funny, cause I thought Anet hated grinding, what with the anti-farming code and stuff like that.
They stated they didn’t want forced grinding. You don’t have to get that weapon. It’s just a unique skin to show off if you really wanted it.
Are we getting psychology in here?
Because I think you have a textbook case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome;)
The fact of the matter is this. As far as you see it, players wanting rewards makes them animals. But that’s faulty logic. They’ll still do exactly what they’re currently doing (which you are implying isnt animal-istic) but they just want extra stuff for it. Which is more materialistic that anything else.
Your comment on Stockholme Syndrome is moot. I can stop playing this game whenever I choose to, there is no one at Anet holding a gun to my head.
Materialistic implies material possessions. Strings of computer code are immaterial.
I’d rather have a skinnerbox than this: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon
The grind to get a legendary weapon is ridiculous. It’s funny, cause I thought Anet hated grinding, what with the anti-farming code and stuff like that.
They stated they didn’t want forced grinding. You don’t have to get that weapon. It’s just a unique skin to show off if you really wanted it.
Are we getting psychology in here?
Because I think you have a textbook case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome;)
The fact of the matter is this. As far as you see it, players wanting rewards makes them animals. But that’s faulty logic. They’ll still do exactly what they’re currently doing (which you are implying isnt animal-istic) but they just want extra stuff for it. Which is more materialistic that anything else.
Your comment on Stockholme Syndrome is moot. I can stop playing this game whenever I choose to, there is no one at Anet holding a gun to my head.
Materialistic implies material possessions. Strings of computer code are immaterial.
True enough about Stockholme. But in which case its just general Sycophancy ;0
As for materialistic. Im of the opinion that it can relate to the virtual. They prefer rewards which can be displayed, rather than the value of the actual thing itself.
I’d hardly call myself a sycophant, I do a good deal of complaining about bugs and issues I’d like fixed.
This more towards the people that bought a game wanting a skinnerbox, didn’t receive their skinnerbox at the bottom of the cereal box, and now want to turn it into a skinnerbox.
To them I say the largest slot machine of all time just released a new expansion, and it will possibly fulfill their need to be rewarded and coddled for doing the same activity over and over. For a month or so, when all the content is on farm status and becomes stale.
I’ve never seen any other game where the forums are filled with pretentious posts claiming that people “are conditioned”, “don’t get it”, or “doing it wrong”. I shouldn’t have to go to a forum to read up on how to play the game “right”. It’s the game’s job to guide me, show me how to play it “right”, and show why its way of doing things is better than the alternatives. Judging from all the criticisms, ranging from “lack of endgame” to “unreasonably long and unrewarding grinds for legendaries”, GW2 isn’t doing those things too well.
quote They stated they didn’t want forced grinding. You don’t have to get that weapon. It’s just a unique skin to show off if you really wanted it. end quote
broken quote system.
Right, that’s true. But it’s grindy in other ways aswell, particularly gold. Teleporting, repair, all necessary. Money? Good luck getting any without grinding excessively.
Their philosophy doesn’t match the game.
That’s not saying I didn’t have fun, in fact the leveling experience was great. But once I hit 80, I got bored very quickly once I realized everything was out of reach except for the people who enjoy grinding mobs.
It’s something I’ve noticed and tried to spread for a while, but people don’t listen. Your average MMORPG is an almost immoral behavioral trap. And when people come here asking for even more of that, you can clearly see how successfully conditioned they have been, it is quite sad. It is not fun, it is an illusion of fun that consumes a lot of time, money, and possibly more.
Everyone in this thread wishes they knew their mother more.
/Freud.
The grinds for legendary items is not even nearly as kittenome of the equipment grinds in GW1.
I don’t play a match of CS and go “Okay, now where’s the end game.”
I don’t play Skyrim and go "Okay, now where’s the end game.
The game doesn’t need to hand hold you because it’s intended to be fun, you’re intended to choose to do what you want to do. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.
It’s really sad that in a day and age where information is so readily and freely available, people still allow themselves to be conditioned in this manner.
Free your minds people.
Couldn’t possibly agree more.
I’ve never seen any other game where the forums are filled with pretentious posts claiming that people “are conditioned”, “don’t get it”, or “doing it wrong”. I shouldn’t have to go to a forum to read up on how to play the game “right”. It’s the game’s job to guide me, show me how to play it “right”, and show why its way of doing things is better than the alternatives. Judging from all the criticisms, ranging from “lack of endgame” to “unreasonably long and unrewarding grinds for legendaries”, GW2 isn’t doing those things too well.
That’s because MMO’s simply hadn’t been around long enough to garner these sort of responses until now. Having played MMORPG’s now for 15 years, I’ve seen a lot of games come and go and I’ve seen thousands of similar complaints spanning across every game since I started with UO.
Those of us that were around before the positive reinforcement loot model of current MMO’s became standard saw the truth behind behavioural conditioning when it started happening. I remember seeing skinner box threads back when WoW launched and they were largely ignored and/or trolled into moderater closure.
Now the MMO player base has matured considerably, there are more people now than ever that have “seen the light” so to speak. Thus the frequency of these types of posts.
I’ve never seen any other game where the forums are filled with pretentious posts claiming that people “are conditioned”, “don’t get it”, or “doing it wrong”. I shouldn’t have to go to a forum to read up on how to play the game “right”. It’s the game’s job to guide me, show me how to play it “right”, and show why its way of doing things is better than the alternatives. Judging from all the criticisms, ranging from “lack of endgame” to “unreasonably long and unrewarding grinds for legendaries”, GW2 isn’t doing those things too well.
That’s because MMO’s simply hadn’t been around long enough to garner these sort of responses until now. Having played MMORPG’s now for 15 years, I’ve seen a lot of games come and go and I’ve seen thousands of similar complaints spanning across every game since I started with UO.
Those of us that were around before the positive reinforcement loot model of current MMO’s became standard saw the truth behind behavioural conditioning when it started happening. I remember seeing skinner box threads back when WoW launched and they were largely ignored and/or trolled into moderater closure.
Now the MMO player base has matured considerably, there are more people now than ever that have “seen the light” so to speak. Thus the frequency of these types of posts.
The problem is that GW2 took out a lot features from the current MMO formula without bringing anything to the table to replace them with. While games like UO weren’t as gear-focused, they had interesting mechanics such as a persistent player-generated content, player killing/looting, player-run economies, etc. SWG had vehicles and even starships that could carry multiple people. What does GW2 have to offer? The combat and the DE system are not enough to offset all the cut-out features.
EDIT: wrote “While games like UO weren’t as skill-focused”, but meant “While games like UO weren’t as gear-focused”
(edited by lacrimstein.5603)
@lacrimstein
Well, GW2 may have innovated on several aspects, but it’s still a themepark game. The focus is very different. Essentially we still need something to fill in between the limited available content. We may get something to compensate for the faults that you feel in the future, we really have to rely on updates and expansions for everything.
(edited by Eochaidh.4106)
I hope so, Eochaidh. I really want this game to do better. GW2 has a lot of potential, but it feels a bit unbaked in its current state. I wonder if NCsoft is to blame…