(edited by Hyareil.1850)
Orr temples and toxicity among players
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
It is for ANet to fix another bad design decision
Reading these forums gave me the conclusion that the only toxic community is in dungeons. and pvp. and wvw.
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Stop being oversensitive. The only reason this happens is because arena net gave us megaservers without ANY way to choose the map, so farmers can’t split with other ppl doing events. The only ppl to blame are ppl who decided to realease a feature that limits ppl ways to play how they want to. This applies to farmers as much as to you. They want to farm event, you want to complete it. Fail mechanic is part of the game. It’s only anet’s fault that you;re mixed on the same map
I don’t see making them easier to get being a bad thing. I’d like to finish treasure hunter but I’m not going to pay the exorbitant prices on the trading post.
What they should have done is make the defend events progressively harder and frequent, so that they eventually will be retaken by the risen regardless of how many players defend them. Everyone is happy this way.
Dramen Maidria
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
Why?
Why do they need to keep the grind for achievements high and the RNG for said items low?
This isn’t a legendary.
It’s an achievement, people who spend time doing said achievement should be rewarded for there time. Not punished because RNG never roles in there favor.
I don’t understand the mentality of “lets keep a profitable item that I have profitable by punishing everyone else”
Increase the drop rate, fix the event. The 1% can take a loss of a few hundred gold, not gonna kill them.
Reading these forums gave me the conclusion that the only toxic community is in dungeons. and pvp. and wvw.
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Stop being oversensitive. The only reason this happens is because arena net gave us megaservers without ANY way to choose the map, so farmers can’t split with other ppl doing events. The only ppl to blame are ppl who decided to realease a feature that limits ppl ways to play how they want to. This applies to farmers as much as to you. They want to farm event, you want to complete it. Fail mechanic is part of the game. It’s only anet’s fault that you;re mixed on the same map
Actually, it’s not quite true that there is no longer any way to choose a map. You can use the LFG tool to find a map that has the event you want, or join the party of a friend/guildmate who’s in the map that you want. That’s how it works in the Silverwastes; by this date, there’s a pretty well-organized if informal system dividing the map between event and chestfarming instances using the LFG tool. It sounds to me as if the various Orrian temples could benefit from a similar setup.
It would also be nice if the got rid of the blue variants at the same time. It always irks me when I get one.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
Why?
Why do they need to keep the grind for achievements high and the RNG for said items low?
This isn’t a legendary.
It’s an achievement, people who spend time doing said achievement should be rewarded for there time. Not punished because RNG never roles in there favor.I don’t understand the mentality of “lets keep a profitable item that I have profitable by punishing everyone else”
Increase the drop rate, fix the event. The 1% can take a loss of a few hundred gold, not gonna kill them.
Its a rare not a basic collection.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
There should be no defense events.
The events on each orr map should go on a cycle of one hour, with map rewards in events and meta events like in Dry Top and Southsun.
At the end of the cycle, Determined risen would spawn and completely take over the areas, forcing players and NPCs to fall back to their starting bases, and the cycle starts over.
Also, the bugged fine variants of all the boss trinkets sould be either removed or improved.
Level 80 items with Malign level 0-14 stats? Seriosuly? If that is not a bug, the only other explantion possible is some disgruntled employee trolling players by not just making those drop instead the exotic ones, but by also adding injury to the insult by blatantly showing their Malice by picking that stat combination specifically.
An example of improvement would be:
- Give them proper stats matching the exotic trinket.
- Add also masterwork and rare versions to the drops.
- Add recipes that uses the fine ones to make a masterwork, masterwork to make rare, and rare to make an exotic, along other materials. So if you are no lucky with that one drop, you can at least be dedicated and make them from other drops.
- Add a final recipe that uses all 4 rarities to make an ascended version of the item. The ascended one will be the one used for the treasure hunter collection. Those who already got the collection entry with the exotic one will not lose it. The ascended ones when acquired will become unlocked to purchase from laurels.
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
Too late. There will never be any value in anything exclusively grind-based or luck-based.
(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)
What they should have done is make the defend events progressively harder and frequent, so that they eventually will be retaken by the risen regardless of how many players defend them. Everyone is happy this way.
Not me. I hate that sort of thing. Just like I hate it when the game spawns enemies behind a point I am successfully defending. It’s cheating! Grr.
I am not a game developer and know little of their ways, but it seems to me those doodads (which I will likely never see) should be potentially awarded not only for a successful capture, but also for a successful defense. The defense should, of course, require just as much effort as the capture.
The table is a fable.
Actually, it’s not quite true that there is no longer any way to choose a map. You can use the LFG tool to find a map that has the event you want, or join the party of a friend/guildmate who’s in the map that you want. That’s how it works in the Silverwastes; by this date, there’s a pretty well-organized if informal system dividing the map between event and chestfarming instances using the LFG tool. It sounds to me as if the various Orrian temples could benefit from a similar setup.
I’m afraid it wouldn’t fix the issue here. Even assuming you would find another instance of the map and someone to taxi you there (which might not be possible considering that Malchor’s Leap isn’t very popular map), it still relies on the defense events. If the defense events succeed they will prevent boss fights from happening. Even if the majority of players present in the map agree they want to farm, a few players might overrule that. Cue angry comments in the chat and discussions whose way to play the game is more important – which is exactly what is happening now.
I think the problem is that the game encourages arguments by giving conflicting agendas to players.
The best solution would be the one that doesn’t divide the playerbase, but makes everyone, no matter their motivation, work for the same outcome.
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Pretty sure that’s not how it works…
“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Pretty sure that’s not how it works…
The point is blaming players for terrible design flaws is wrong.
Farmers have their right to farm, achie hunters have their right to get achies and map completionist have their right to run around and do their completion even if they scale or finish the event in addition.
When we had servers ppl could choose another map to play freely the way they want to. Now ppl are forced to play on maps they can’t really choose.
Reading these forums gave me the conclusion that the only toxic community is in dungeons. and pvp. and wvw.
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Stop being oversensitive. The only reason this happens is because arena net gave us megaservers without ANY way to choose the map, so farmers can’t split with other ppl doing events. The only ppl to blame are ppl who decided to realease a feature that limits ppl ways to play how they want to. This applies to farmers as much as to you. They want to farm event, you want to complete it. Fail mechanic is part of the game. It’s only anet’s fault that you;re mixed on the same map
Actually, it’s not quite true that there is no longer any way to choose a map. You can use the LFG tool to find a map that has the event you want, or join the party of a friend/guildmate who’s in the map that you want. That’s how it works in the Silverwastes; by this date, there’s a pretty well-organized if informal system dividing the map between event and chestfarming instances using the LFG tool. It sounds to me as if the various Orrian temples could benefit from a similar setup.
Actually it’s only a work around players learned to use to avoid terrible megaserver design in terms of map choice.
I played some other games where when on a map I could choose which overflow I’m playing on. Hell, GW1 had this! Why this game doesnt have it a year after megaserver mess?
All anet has to do is reward both “win” states (retaking temple, defending temple) with the same drop table/
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
I don’t involve myself in the WBT/Temple Events very often, but I have been exploring Orr on a few different characters over the last month.
I’ve seen what you’ve been describing.
Usually I see “don’t defend” or “fail event” or similar sort of commands by people in map chat, but I can’t recall anybody getting particularly toxic about it (but that’s not to say that the behaviour itself isn’t toxic).
Also, if somebody/a group is trying to complete the events, somebody with the opposite motive usually gets verbal in /w rather than /m, from what I experienced at Coiled Watch. So from this, it’s difficult to gauge exactly how toxic things are.
I totally agree with Azure The Heartless- this makes total sense to me (and lore wise as well).
There should be no defense events.
The events on each orr map should go on a cycle of one hour, with map rewards in events and meta events like in Dry Top and Southsun.
At the end of the cycle, Determined risen would spawn and completely take over the areas, forcing players and NPCs to fall back to their starting bases, and the cycle starts over.
Also, the bugged fine variants of all the boss trinkets sould be either removed or improved.
Level 80 items with Malign level 0-14 stats? Seriosuly? If that is not a bug, the only other explantion possible is some disgruntled employee trolling players by not just making those drop instead the exotic ones, but by also adding injury to the insult by blatantly showing their Malice by picking that stat combination specifically.
An example of improvement would be:
- Give them proper stats matching the exotic trinket.
- Add also masterwork and rare versions to the drops.
- Add recipes that uses the fine ones to make a masterwork, masterwork to make rare, and rare to make an exotic, along other materials. So if you are no lucky with that one drop, you can at least be dedicated and make them from other drops.
- Add a final recipe that uses all 4 rarities to make an ascended version of the item. The ascended one will be the one used for the treasure hunter collection. Those who already got the collection entry with the exotic one will not lose it. The ascended ones when acquired will become unlocked to purchase from laurels.
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
Too late. There will never be any value in anything exclusively grind-based or luck-based.
Lol. Trading post says otherwise.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
What they should have done is make the defend events progressively harder and frequent, so that they eventually will be retaken by the risen regardless of how many players defend them. Everyone is happy this way.
I like this idea and I think it should be implemented with any defense event in a captured location (e.g., originally belonging to the enemy). However, this will not solve the problem at hand. It reduces the problem by ensuring that a capture must eventually happen, but it doesn’t solve it outright.
The idea to remove the temple defense events is also poor, imo, as being unable to stop enemies from taking or retaking a location in events is something that can already happen… And I for on thehate when such scenarios play out, especially right in front of me.
The solution as I see it would be to increase the difficulty of the defense events and add the reward to it. Perhaps an entire chain for defending the temples ending with another fight against the risen priests in a different scenario. That way it’ll still be just as hard while just as rewarding whether taking or defending.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I agree that the difficulty of successive defend events just needs to scale up a lot more, and quicker. Make it very unlikely that any temple will be successfully defended more than once.
[…]
Lol. Trading post says otherwise.[/quote]
The trading post only shows how unlikely it is for someone to get something that is tradeable. Not their value.
The actual value of something is not directly proportional to their cost.
[…]
Lol. Trading post says otherwise.
The trading post only shows how unlikely it is for someone to get something that is tradeable. Not their value.
The actual value of something is not directly proportional to their cost. [/quote]
So something that is rare is valuable. Since you can trade gems for gold it even gives the items a monetary value.
There is no hard content in GW2, so you wont see skill based rewards any time soon if ever.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Pretty sure that’s not how it works…
The point is blaming players for terrible design flaws is wrong.
Well, that’s very true.
You won’t get any argument, from me, on that.
“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth
With regard to the lower tier versions, I’d like to request that throwing 4 fine quality items with the same name into the Forge should output a guaranteed masterwork of the same name. Likewise, 4 masterworks would output one 1, and 4 rares would output the final, exotic version.
This would make the fine, masterwork, and rare versions valuable (though a reduction in the drop rate may be needed for balancing purposes).
Server: Devona’s Rest
Are the various item collections that worthwhile? Once in a long while I get something new that I have not seen before and there is a item collection or skin unlock. For the most part, these drops are mediocre at best. I rather wish the super rare drops were giant piles of salvageable materials.
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
Reward the chest for defending and make defending as difficult as capping
It would also be nice if the got rid of the blue variants at the same time. It always irks me when I get one.
But how else can the Gods of RNG show you their wrath?
If everyone is toxic, noone is toxic.
Pretty sure that’s not how it works…
It depends on the definition of toxic, if toxicity is measured in relation to the overall community then it would work that way. Although I do like to think that what’s considered toxic is irrespective of the overall community.
I agree that the difficulty of successive defend events just needs to scale up a lot more, and quicker. Make it very unlikely that any temple will be successfully defended more than once.
Naturally players will expect better rewards though.
What they should have done is make the defend events progressively harder and frequent, so that they eventually will be retaken by the risen regardless of how many players defend them. Everyone is happy this way.
No what they should never of done in a million years is make failing something more rewarding than succeeding.. it’s just pure stupidity imo.
This is the reason why fail farming creates so many issues.
Failing something should not provide better loot, it should not reward your with x amount of champs that can then be ignored to let events fail in order to trigger a constant reset of the event.
Other MMO’s must look at ANET’s creative thinking around event design and laugh themselves to sleep its just silly season to allow a single event to be farmed endlessly and at the same time create toxicity across the mapchat because some players don’t want to fail things and want to succeed… yes Jofast is a prime example of this on Orr and Coil event was until they decided to changed the reset timer.. Blix before that and so on and so forth.
It’s not like there isn’t enough farming elements in the game already like WasteofSilver and ToT bags without the need to have this pathetic concept of failing something in order to be rewarded.
- Add more ways to acquire these items – for example add them as possible rewards to the defense events
This. I still don’t know why anet did not do this to begin with.
I have noticed a larger influx of new players. Many of these players do not even realize or know that failing an event leads to these other larger events. Instead of pointing fingers and labeling people as toxic, why not educate them and tell them what you get if you let the event fail.
I havn’t been in Orr too much, but I can only recall one situation where the players didn’t let the event fail. All the other dozens of times they listened once told, and let it fail.
[…]
I’d just make the forged ones account-bound. So the ones that drop are the ones you can sell, and the ones you make are just for you to use.
So you could get some, make some, but you won’t have any reason to make them to sell, so the ones that drop always have some use for everyone, but the ones that you make only have use for you, and we don’t get the trade values of the dropped ones decreased by overcrafting.
I remember while leading up to release, A.Net said things like they didn’t want to require people to farm specific events to gets specific rewards. (That was the whole point of the Karma system.) And somewhere along the way I remember them saying that they didn’t want people to feel the need to fail events on purpose.
It seems they’ve lost sight of these ideas over the past couple years…
The OP is pointing out something that has been fixed in other situations: event failure shouldn’t offer better rewards than event success.
In this case, retaking a temple (after failing) is part of a chain (including a special ground-based chest) while defense is a single event. So, this would be less simple to rebalance than the Coil chain in Frostgorge, which provided more champs/minute if failed than during a successful chain.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
The OP is pointing out something that has been fixed in other situations: event failure shouldn’t offer better rewards than event success.
In this case, retaking a temple (after failing) is part of a chain (including a special ground-based chest) while defense is a single event. So, this would be less simple to rebalance than the Coil chain in Frostgorge, which provided more champs/minute if failed than during a successful chain.
It should not be difficult at all to change.
The defence stage just needs to be altered in line with how Arah was so players could receive the trait unlock for either the assault or defence phases.
Linking a specific reward that requires failure is just plain dumb and will always be prone to the creation of toxic behaviour, whoever dreamed up the notion of rewarding for failure doesn’t belong in an MMO creative position.
As for fail farming .. that’s is just simply down to not even caring about their game anymore, which is then further extended when looking at how the Watesofsilver map has become nothing more than a dig for gold event with large zergs of players running the loop all day long with each loop yielding between 30-40 chests in about 15minutes maybe less.. that kind of loot haul can only be destructive to the game as a whole – simply put its just terrible creative design… but ANET simply do not care about it they would rather put the time into ensuring the tooltips have all the spellings correct.
Dry Top had the better idea.. force players to run events in order to increase the reward tiers that could open up new items to buy and reduce cost of other items.. they could then simply add new items into the vendors as and when to keep the map interesting.. but no once players have their achievs in SW all that’s left is to farm chests cos the events are meaningless except on occasion when shovels are needed.
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
These items had NO value until the collections where added, now its to easy for a very very very small group of people who are trying to sell them for 100g each on the TP to stop anyone else getting them by defending the temples’s ( which is very easy to do )
I said it along time ago when megaserver went live, ORR needs a reset time, say every 3 hours, and when it happens all of the temples become contested and must be recaptured, as the current system is Broken.
Making them easier to get would reduce the value of the treasure hunter achievements. The droprates would have to be adjusted to keep the amount of items coming into the economy low.
These items had NO value until the collections where added, now its to easy for a very very very small group of people who are trying to sell them for 100g each on the TP to stop anyone else getting them by defending the temples’s ( which is very easy to do )
I said it along time ago when megaserver went live, ORR needs a reset time, say every 3 hours, and when it happens all of the temples become contested and must be recaptured, as the current system is Broken.
They had low value before, because there were ascended rings with better stats (+ other easy to get craftable alternatives). Now there is demand for it again. And low supply. Nothing wrong with it.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
[…]
They had low value before, because there were ascended rings with better stats (+ other easy to get craftable alternatives). Now there is demand for it again. And low supply. Nothing wrong with it.
The low supply is not because the content is hard or the items rare. It is because the events often bug, or there’s no way for players to know the source of an item without using the wiki, and some players often camp the bosses and kill them before anyone else can arrive there, sometimes even without anyone else coming at all because there’s no meta-event or map icon to signal the boss.
And there’s lots wrong with that.
Bugged events are a problem, yes. But the rest is not a problem. A big part of MMOs is exploration, so if you do not like that, you either use the Wiki to find knowledge or live with the consequences. Not everything has to be spoon fed.
By the way the only event chain which is still bugging around is the Foulbear one for Sam. All other of the specific events for the exotic treasures are working at least 99% of the time now.
You can also look into the lfg system for open world content. Many people, including me, offer taxis for special events which happen outside of the shedule.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
(edited by Malediktus.9250)
The OP is pointing out something that has been fixed in other situations: event failure shouldn’t offer better rewards than event success.
In this case, retaking a temple (after failing) is part of a chain (including a special ground-based chest) while defense is a single event. So, this would be less simple to rebalance than the Coil chain in Frostgorge, which provided more champs/minute if failed than during a successful chain.
It should not be difficult at all to change.
The defence stage just needs to be altered in line with how Arah was so players could receive the trait unlock for either the assault or defence phases.
Linking a specific reward that requires failure is just plain dumb and will always be prone to the creation of toxic behaviour, whoever dreamed up the notion of rewarding for failure doesn’t belong in an MMO creative position.
As for fail farming .. that’s is just simply down to not even caring about their game anymore, which is then further extended when looking at how the Watesofsilver map has become nothing more than a dig for gold event with large zergs of players running the loop all day long with each loop yielding between 30-40 chests in about 15minutes maybe less.. that kind of loot haul can only be destructive to the game as a whole – simply put its just terrible creative design… but ANET simply do not care about it they would rather put the time into ensuring the tooltips have all the spellings correct.Dry Top had the better idea.. force players to run events in order to increase the reward tiers that could open up new items to buy and reduce cost of other items.. they could then simply add new items into the vendors as and when to keep the map interesting.. but no once players have their achievs in SW all that’s left is to farm chests cos the events are meaningless except on occasion when shovels are needed.
Even if everything you mention above is true (and I doubt that it is), it wouldn’t be “easy” to change:
- Orr is setup so that there’s a single event to defend and an entire chain to assault.
- The ground chests are a reward for completing the chain; it would be imbalancing to simply add them to defense.
In this case, the game doesn’t by any stretch of the imagination “reward failure” — it’s rewarding completion of a long chain of events, which do not start up unless a different event fails. The simplest way to change it is to remove the possibility of successful defense entirely, and that breaks the model for the game’s lore, as currently structured. It also isn’t trivial to implement, since you have to remake the existing defense event to always fail.
(Yes, there are other examples in which the game has rewarded failure, but this is not one of them. The Coil chain in Frostgorge is one of the more recently changed examples: failing gave you more champ bags/hour than succeeding did, so there was no reason to complete the chain. In contrast, the reason for failing defense is entirely to allow people the opportunity to succeed at the longer chain.)
tl;dr no, it won’t be easy to resolve.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
@ Illconceived Was Na.9781
Actually everything I stated is/was true, but please try to clarify who is saying what in your responses.. I didn’t say some of the stuff you included.
- Arah defence was changed to allow players to be rewarded with the trait unlock upon successful defence not failing it.. check back on the forums for the long list of complaints and topics about the toxicity it created because of the split in the map community.
Then Blix fail farm was nerfed by ANET on the grounds of toxicity, but we all know they never thought it would be fail farmed to the extent it was so the toxic behaviour gave them a perfect smoke screen to avoid calling it an exploit of the game mechanics and a need to rollback/ban so many accounts.
Sure everything must have a chance to fail but nothing is supposed to be set up to fail on purpose in order to restart a chain of events.. those events will restart automatically after a period of time anyway.. the fail farmers just saught out their next target after Blix and Coil was perfect – ANET again used the toxic argument, but also as it wasa LS phase needed to be completed as well, but created a perfect way to try and close the loophole in their bad event design and so the failfarm saught out another, namely Jofast which utilises the same mechanics as Blix did and now causes the same amount of toxic behaviour aimed at players seeking to run the event chain to it completion – but of course we all know that the farm is a prize earner and is therefore protected at all cost so is carefully guarded and scaled up as soon as anyone see it starting. Only yesterday players were being calling f***ing c***s and similar for staying inside the camp and trying to complete it – in fact one person was told to go get cancer and die horribly just for starting the event when the failfarm wasn’t there – not sure about you but I think many of us didn’t buy into GW2 for that kind of nonsense. Yeah report them of course but we all know ANET do nothing about it anyway because those same players are there running Jofast for hours on end every day and were at Blix, Coil etc throwing out the same attitudes cos they think they have claim to the event…. in fact the only way things began to get the attention of ANET before was when the antifail trains began to appear and both sides went at it with a vengeance.. I am beginning to hope that happens again so ANET finally see sense and change any and all events that have the capacity to breed such discontent.
The Lore of the game has nothing to do with failure being a better reward over success of a chain that is just down to poor event design and a lack of care to do anything about it.
As for farming in general – there is World Boss rotations, there are temples rotations, there are a plethora of champs to be taken out on rotations across Tyria without the need for event fail exploitation and then adding a completely wacko chest farm across their newest map.
Whoever dreamed that idea must have a really shortsighted and boring outlook on challenging gameplay – reward yes for completing the vinewrath chain which we already have by way of a final chest and upto 4 bandit chests plus 15minutes of pacmania and various champs that pop up around the map, but oooh no that’ isn’t sufficient so ANET have a lightbulb moment and provide a chestfarm which has zero control on it – thousands of loot bags a day by each person if they stay around (which many do) – the map is a farmfest out of control which nullifies most map copies because they become full of farmers and with no interest in running the events except on occasion to get a few more shovels to keep the farmloops chugging… new players wont have a chance and giveup and join the status quo… great NPE idea there.
You keep comparing other situations to this one and they aren’t analogous.
- In Orrian temple chains, the ground chest is rewarded for completing a chain, not for failing defense; it happens that you can’t start the chain unless the defense fails.
- In the situations in which ANet has responded quickly, failing actually offered immediate rewards which were more lucrative in large part because the event restarted quickly. Merely changing the reset-after-failure to match the reset-after-success timing changed that dynamic.
So the rewards for Orrian temple assault/defense are commensurate with the effort involved, which normally is good design. In contrast, the effort for success/failure in previously changed events was nearly the same, but the rewards/time were drastically different. Even so, that wasn’t so much “bad design” as ANet not realizing that they had setup perverse incentives.
In other words, the other situations you use as examples had a different problem. Further, the origins of the issue weren’t always as simple as “poor design.” Originally, success offered better rewards for the Coil chain. Later, ANet guaranteed drops from champs, which greatly increased the potential loot from a fully scaled-up chain. It also turned out that champs would appear in great numbers in the early part of the first of the chain’s events.
But this went unnoticed for ages — you couldn’t get anyone to do the event. It wasn’t until the introduction of Living Story content that required completion of the chain that people noticed the champs and figured out how to game the system: scale up the first event by standing in specific spots, kill champs, fail the event, and wait a brief time before it restarts. This turned out to be more efficient than completing the chain.
So it wasn’t “poor design” — it was unintended consequences plus player ingenuity, catalyzed by unusual circumstances.
And theoretically, this could have gone on forever, if people had been willing to share. In practice, of course, farmers were bound to compete with those wanting to do the chain (for the story or achievements or loot). And ANet acted quickly to prevent the competition between PvErs. In this case, it was merely a matter of resetting the timer so that failure was just as slow as success, thus making it more profitable to complete the chain than to fail it.
tl;dr Orrian temple defense vs assault has a different combination of mechanics and it’s not so much design as it is people learning how to game any system to get the maximum perceived reward.
I agree there’s something worth changing. I disagree about how easy it will be to do this sensibly.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
The latest thing seems to be holding Melandru assault hostage by doing Mel defense event to get others to stop defending Arah.
I think some popcorn is in order.
“It’s counter-intuitive (fail the event to have a chance for better loot) and creates toxicity among the playerbase . The result is not unlike old arguments in Queensdale.”
Defense vs people who want better loot? Isn’t the entire point of doing any of these events to obtain loot anyways? You’re basically stating it in plain that anyone who wants to do defense is a complete moron, why would anyone want to do that when the loot is to let the temple be taken?
To many arguments, generally speaking, there are pros and cons of every side… what pro do you have to justify defending a temple? None whatsoever.