Guild Wars 2

So i see a lot of people talking about how their characters are now “out of date” and will stay out of date as the game progresses.
1.I don’t understand any of your logic…
2.When Anet introduced Ascended gear they said they wanted to introduce a tier that was not as easy to get as exotics but not as long as a Legendary. People screamed “GEAR TREADMILL!!!!!”
3.Now i want folks to know this is my First mmo and i dont understand the treadmill concept very well.
4.But from what i understand WoW added new gear with better stats all the time and frequently for PvP and it was just absurd.
5. Meanwhile each new piece of ascended gear is just a different set of stats. None have an advantage over a another piece of ascended gear.
6. Ascended is more of a choice ( yes i know better stats but its not even close to other stat differences) That unless you are planning to do WvW solo you don’t quite need that extra percent.
7.So if everyone has to work at the same rate to get optional stuff whats the problem.
8.This gear is not mandatory even for WvW.
So people please stop acting like Anet ruined the game.
You wanna play your way Fine.
This is so people with nothing more they want to do can have something to do.
And to those who say the old daily was easy cuz you could just to it as you play: the daily was never suppose to be easy Its a set of challenges. Something to make you go out of your way.
And now you have options to how you wanna finish it too, if you do it at all.

Agreed.

Also, for me, I like the added ‘treadmill’. I feel like I have a goal of what I want to accomplish with my character.

1. Anet claimed that they wanted their gear to be quick, easy and grind free to get regarding stats. It’s the same way it worked in gw1, its how it used to work in gw2, and a LOT of us feel like they basically betrayed this trust.
2. Ascended gear IS better than exotics, parties will more likely take someone in exotics than rares, and ascended than exotics.
3. Ascended gear is no more a choice than exotic gear was. Are you still running around in rares? No? Then you know exactly why people will basically have to run around in ascended.

Difficulty != choice
Treadmill != good gameplay
Anet != very trustworthy

Zenyatoo.4059:

1. Anet claimed that they wanted their gear to be quick, easy and grind free to get regarding stats. It’s the same way it worked in gw1, its how it used to work in gw2, and a LOT of us feel like they basically betrayed this trust.
2. Ascended gear IS better than exotics, parties will more likely take someone in exotics than rares, and ascended than exotics.
3. Ascended gear is no more a choice than exotic gear was. Are you still running around in rares? No? Then you know exactly why people will basically have to run around in ascended.

Difficulty != choice
Treadmill != good gameplay
Anet != very trustworthy

Strange I haven’t run into anyone that asked to see my ascended gear before doing a dungeon. And if they did, I wouldn’t do the dungeon with them anyway. Here’s how the conversation would go.

LFG Arah path 2.

I’ll go.

Let me see your ascended gear.

(Shows my ascended gear). Changed my mind, I wouldn’t play with someone like you anyway.

The truth is, I don’t pug and I’m not generally going to pug, because you’ll run dungeons much better with a decent guild. You’ll WvW much better with a decent guild. You’ll enjoy the game much better with a decent guild.

We run dungeons all the time. I’ve beaten explorable modes of every single dungeon in the game, including Arah. I’m currently up to level 13 in the Fractals. I WvW and occassionally SPvP. Today I’m running my first guild mission.

This isn’t WoW and there’s no way to check gear score. The people who come here with that mentality, you’re better off not teaming with anyway.

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

critickitten.1498:

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

It isn’t significant because we only have accessories right now.

Vayne.8563:

This isn’t WoW and there’s no way to check gear score. The people who come here with that mentality, you’re better off not teaming with anyway.

Along with people who only think about ’ooooh all those big numbers~".

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

It isn’t significant because we only have accessories right now.

And they’re in the process of adding the rest of them.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

It isn’t significant because we only have accessories right now.

And they’re in the process of adding the rest of them.

Once they do, get back to me.

In the mean time, it’s insignificant.

Aristio.2784:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

It isn’t significant because we only have accessories right now.

And they’re in the process of adding the rest of them.

Once they do, get back to me.

In the mean time, it’s insignificant.

Because trying to fix a problem after it’s happened when you saw it and could have done something about it before it happened is such a great idea.

Verticle progression (we’ll assume tiered) is only a problem when it lacks a pathway for catching up characters, which will be relevant and necessary IF a new tier replaces Ascended.

In the meantime it is clear linear progression and anyone left behind their mates needs to do a few runs, problem solved.

Aristio.2784:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

It isn’t significant because we only have accessories right now.

And they’re in the process of adding the rest of them.

Once they do, get back to me.

In the mean time, it’s insignificant.

I agree i play other games that give way more then 13% stat boosts and as a result i see 13% as a fly. plus its just accessories, which of course give the weakest boosts, the stuff is nothing currently. but i wont lie and say that once they add full sets THEN it will be significant and absurd.

Aristio.2784:

Once they do, get back to me.

In the mean time, it’s insignificant.

No, it’s a little over 3% right now, not including the earrings. Once I have done the math for those, I’ll let you know how much it is now.

I do appreciate the hilarity of this comment, though.

“My house is going to be hit by a major storm tomorrow. But it’s not today, so I see no reason to prepare for it in advance.”

SilvSonic.2691:

I agree i play other games that give way more then 13% stat boosts and as a result i see 13% as a fly. plus its just accessories, which of course give the weakest boosts, the stuff is nothing currently. but i wont lie and say that once they add full sets THEN it will be significant and absurd.

It’s 13% after all of the gear is introduced.

And that’s only for damage. That doesn’t consider defense (which, at the very least, increases by 5%).

Also, it assumes only a 5% boost, when in fact the devs stated that the power difference per item would be between 5% and 10%.

It really doesn’t matter, the only way I can see that 13% damage actually mattering is if you find yourself in a 1v1 in WvWvW when you have full exotic with berzerkers gear and your opponent having full ascended exotic gear, see how exact that scenario is? Let’s take this to pve, we’ve been wrecking mobs with masterwork items. Ascended only really matters in dungeons. In summary, you don’t even need Ascended. 13% damage? What are you trying to have a spree of 1v1’s in WvW? Do you suck at killing NPC enemies? They simply aren’t needed and if you don’t like how you acquire them then don’t buy them because I cannot stress enough, in most cases they aren’t needed

RedSpectrum.1975:

It really doesn’t matter, the only way I can see that 13% damage actually mattering is if you find yourself in a 1v1 in WvWvW when you have full exotic with berzerkers gear and your opponent having full ascended exotic gear, see how exact that scenario is? Let’s take this to pve, we’ve been wrecking mobs with masterwork items. Ascended only really matters in dungeons. In summary, you don’t even need Ascended. 13% damage? What are you trying to have a spree of 1v1’s in WvW? Do you suck at killing NPC enemies? They simply aren’t needed and if you don’t like how you acquire them then don’t buy them because I cannot stress enough, in most cases they aren’t needed

Then they shouldn’t be in the game at all.

Cosmetic items aren’t needed either…

Zenyatoo.4059:

1. Anet claimed that they wanted their gear to be quick, easy and grind free to get regarding stats. It’s the same way it worked in gw1, its how it used to work in gw2, and a LOT of us feel like they basically betrayed this trust.
2. Ascended gear IS better than exotics, parties will more likely take someone in exotics than rares, and ascended than exotics.
3. Ascended gear is no more a choice than exotic gear was. Are you still running around in rares? No? Then you know exactly why people will basically have to run around in ascended.

Difficulty != choice
Treadmill != good gameplay
Anet != very trustworthy

What people want isn’t always what people get. Even ANet isn’t above this absolute truth. They may have wanted to keep things that way, but for whatever reason (NCsoft, betrayal, UFO’s, other MMO’s, jesus) they were unable to. I can’t fault them for that, because I don’t recall them saying THIS IS HOW IT WILL BE I PROMISE. They wanted, but did not get. That extends to the players who also wanted but in the same fashion did not get.

I for one like ascended items. It’s not forced on anyone unless a part of them deep down wants to have ‘the best stuff’ in which case, that’s more of a personal dilemma honestly.

thisolderhead.5127:

Cosmetic items aren’t needed either…

And cosmetic items don’t have balancing problems.

I’m not seeing balance problems, I may before the end of Ascended and after…

I said above if they don’t do it right it is bad – but right now it isn’t breaking balance much if at all as much as other factors (broken class mechanics are a big one).

To clarify – 13% between a “just 80” and “fully geared” isn’t that rich, when it is 26% and you have to step through Ascended to get there most of the above makes sense.

People play these games to grow characters, I don’t know why you would want to stop developing your characters for their life…

Doesn’t justify continuing to break it with the treadmill when it’s fully preventable.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Doesn’t justify continuing to break it with the treadmill when it’s fully preventable.

Yeah sorry – edited in a point about that.

If (like dailies are introducing) you build towards “end game” incidentally while running around playing the game, why is it so evil to have the “end game” evolve?

thisolderhead.5127:

People play these games to grow characters, I don’t know why you would want to stop developing your characters for their life…

Because the game adding more growth makes everything else weaker and causes a useless treadmill to occur.

thisolderhead.5127:

People play these games to grow characters, I don’t know why you would want to stop developing your characters for their life…

Er, what?

I play these games to have fun. Something which I generally am not having when I’m having to pursue higher stats at all times.

This is something GW1 did spectacularly well, and something many people expected to return in GW2.

I hate this mentality that it’s only possible to “progress” if you’re chasing after gear.

I don’t mind Ascended Gear. I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it. It does make an overall significant stat difference, no matter how you look at it. The gap will only grow larger the more Ascended pieces are released.

What I have a problem with is how Ascended gear is earned. I mean, it’s not about personal or group skill. It’s all about 20+ days of doing dailies, getting lucky with RNG and being forced into a large Guild setting that you may not want to deal with.

They need more variety in which Ascended gear is earned.

Enough restricted time syncs and dailies for God’s sake.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

RedSpectrum.1975:

It really doesn’t matter, the only way I can see that 13% damage actually mattering is if you find yourself in a 1v1 in WvWvW when you have full exotic with berzerkers gear and your opponent having full ascended exotic gear, see how exact that scenario is? Let’s take this to pve, we’ve been wrecking mobs with masterwork items. Ascended only really matters in dungeons. In summary, you don’t even need Ascended. 13% damage? What are you trying to have a spree of 1v1’s in WvW? Do you suck at killing NPC enemies? They simply aren’t needed and if you don’t like how you acquire them then don’t buy them because I cannot stress enough, in most cases they aren’t needed

Then they shouldn’t be in the game at all.

Neither should legendaries in that case but they are as well. They offer slightly better stats than max exotics, so in theory everyone who doesn’t have a legendary should die right? Anyone who has a legendary are by far the superior dps people, you can’t survive the Cursed Shore either unless you have legendary weapons. And seeing as how like 10% of the population has legendaries, the high level areas like the Cursed Shore should be riddled with blue x’s. Legendaries are in the game for their aesthetics, not their stats. Ascended gear is in the game now for agony resistance. Like I said this is one of those only times where it matters, but other than that, it doesn’t matter, that’s just Anet giving them purpose finally. Hell, being a sylvari offers no significant gameplay from a human so they shouldn’t be in the game either. That’s your logic. Quaggan backpacks, I was fine without em, and now that they are here, still not noticing a difference in gameplay. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be there, they are there for those who want them. If you don’t want them then that’s ok just don’t make a fuss over it. Q

RedSpectrum.1975:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

RedSpectrum.1975:

It really doesn’t matter, the only way I can see that 13% damage actually mattering is if you find yourself in a 1v1 in WvWvW when you have full exotic with berzerkers gear and your opponent having full ascended exotic gear, see how exact that scenario is? Let’s take this to pve, we’ve been wrecking mobs with masterwork items. Ascended only really matters in dungeons. In summary, you don’t even need Ascended. 13% damage? What are you trying to have a spree of 1v1’s in WvW? Do you suck at killing NPC enemies? They simply aren’t needed and if you don’t like how you acquire them then don’t buy them because I cannot stress enough, in most cases they aren’t needed

Then they shouldn’t be in the game at all.

Neither should legendaries in that case but they are as well. They offer slightly better stats than max exotics, so in theory everyone who doesn’t have a legendary should die right? Anyone who has a legendary are by far the superior dps people, you can’t survive the Cursed Shore either unless you have legendary weapons. And seeing as how like 10% of the population has legendaries, the high level areas like the Cursed Shore should be riddled with blue x’s. Legendaries are in the game for their aesthetics, not their stats. Ascended gear is in the game now for agony resistance. Like I said this is one of those only times where it matters, but other than that, it doesn’t matter, that’s just Anet giving them purpose finally. Hell, being a sylvari offers no significant gameplay from a human so they shouldn’t be in the game either. That’s your logic. Quaggan backpacks, I was fine without em, and now that they are here, still not noticing a difference in gameplay. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be there, they are there for those who want them. If you don’t want them then that’s ok just don’t make a fuss over it. Q

Sorry but comparing a Legendary with Exotic stats doesn’t really compare to an Ascended piece with increased stats. For the record, Legendary’s don’t have higher stats (but they will be bumped up to Ascended stats once Ascended Weapons release).

You’re comparing COSMETIC items to items with HIGHER STATS (Ascended). Your argument doesn’t work.

critickitten.1498:

“My house is going to be hit by a major storm tomorrow. But it’s not today, so I see no reason to prepare for it in advance.”

There’s a reason why people laugh at real-life comparisons. Because they’re extremes and really silly to compare it to. You’re comparing a slight increase in power in a video game, to a major life-changing event. Get over it.

13% still is meaningless. Unless you’re one of those who love to mix-max, it really does-not-matter. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing in this game that REQUIRES ascended-grade gear. In almost every other game, there is a gear REQUIREMENT to see content. There are things that require Agony Resistance, but you get what I mean.

Back to the original point, and assuming forever verticle gear progression…

Given that we really only have one tier of end-game gear anyone saying they can’t catch up must have some undisclosed deficit.

As for those hurt over the fact there is going to be verticle progression – let us see how they implement it before the panic, neckbeards making mountains out of unhatched chicken eggs is not a bandwagon we should all jump on.

Aristio.2784:

There’s a reason why people laugh at real-life comparisons. Because they’re extremes and really silly to compare it to. You’re comparing a slight increase in power in a video game, to a major life-changing event. Get over it.

The logic is identical.

You don’t think something is a problem now, while it can still be mitigated, but then you want to maintain the right to complain if it becomes a problem later, after it’s much too late to fix.

I understand that perhaps you do not see any problem with a total lack of foresight, but at least comprehend the fact that some of us like to try and fix problems before they become too serious to ignore.

13% still is meaningless.

Then go into work tomorrow and tell your boss that you’re okay with a 13% pay cut, because after all, it’s completely meaningless.

Yes, that’s another real life comparison. Guess you’ll just have to “get over it”.

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

There’s a reason why people laugh at real-life comparisons. Because they’re extremes and really silly to compare it to. You’re comparing a slight increase in power in a video game, to a major life-changing event. Get over it.

The logic is identical.

You don’t think something is a problem now, while it can still be mitigated, but then you want to maintain the right to complain if it becomes a problem later, after it’s much too late to fix.

I understand that perhaps you do not see any problem with a total lack of foresight, but at least comprehend the fact that some of us like to try and fix problems before they become too serious to ignore.

13% still is meaningless.

Then go into work tomorrow and tell your boss that you’re okay with a 13% pay cut, because after all, it’s completely meaningless.

Yes, that’s another real life comparison. Guess you’ll just have to “get over it”.

It’s not a problem and never will be. 13% is not something to care about in a game like this.

Aristio.2784:

It’s not a problem and never will be. 13% is not something to care about in a game like this in my opinion.

Fixed it for you.

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

There’s a reason why people laugh at real-life comparisons. Because they’re extremes and really silly to compare it to. You’re comparing a slight increase in power in a video game, to a major life-changing event. Get over it.

The logic is identical.

You don’t think something is a problem now, while it can still be mitigated, but then you want to maintain the right to complain if it becomes a problem later, after it’s much too late to fix.

I understand that perhaps you do not see any problem with a total lack of foresight, but at least comprehend the fact that some of us like to try and fix problems before they become too serious to ignore.

13% still is meaningless.

Then go into work tomorrow and tell your boss that you’re okay with a 13% pay cut, because after all, it’s completely meaningless.

Yes, that’s another real life comparison. Guess you’ll just have to “get over it”.

It’s not a problem and never will be. 13% is not something to care about in a game like this.

Go tell someone their Legendary won’t get upgraded to pink stats when Ascended weapons come out and see how well they take it.

OK. Let us be clear. 13% is not meaningless. Stop using skill as an excuse to make up for that 13%. They are separate things.

A skilled player in exotics may beat an unskilled playing in ascended. But when pitting 2 skilled players against one another, that 13% does make a difference. A huge one.

have you seen people requiring ascended for explorables? of course not, because the content isn’t hard enough to justify requiring anything more then being of lvl.

Aristio.2784:

13% is not something to care about in a game like this.

So 8 stacks of Might on a full power build isn’t significant.
Have fun when that might stacking elementalist wipes the floor with you.

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

It’s not a problem and never will be. 13% is not something to care about in a game like this in my opinion.

Fixed it for you.

I’m pretty sure that was the intention because it’s coming from me.

Again, 13% still won’t matter.

Edit:

OK. Let us be clear. 13% is not meaningless. Stop using skill as an excuse to make up for that 13%. They are separate things.

A skilled player in exotics may beat an unskilled playing in ascended. But when pitting 2 skilled players against one another, that 13% does make a difference. A huge one.

have you seen people requiring ascended for explorables? of course not, because the content isn’t hard enough to justify requiring anything more then being of lvl.

Yes, it would matter if we were fighting in colonial times where everyone took turns attacking each other. I’m sure it matters in JRPGs where a scalar number matters. Or even in other games where the bosses are for the most part stationary and you keep an eye on your DPS meters.

But in GW2, 13% offers a miniscule advantage.

Aristio.2784:

I’m pretty sure that was the intention because it’s coming from me.

Again, 13% still won’t matter in my opinion.

I do wish you’d just add this yourself instead of me having to keep correcting you.

Again, I don’t mind if you assert that you believe 13% will not matter in the subjective sense of a battle. But it is subjective. Your opinion.

Stop pretending that it’s fact.

I have a viable and convenient solution! They should just allow us to purchase the ascended gear at three times the cost of exotic gear karma wise, 126,000 a piece; I think that is reasonable and just allow the Laurels for the purchase of vanity items such as cosmetic armour/weapons.

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

It’s not a problem and never will be. 13% is not something to care about in a game like this in my opinion.

Fixed it for you.

You can’t argue with this guy, Aristio. He’s determined to be upset about the game, and insists on doing it all over the forums. I personally find it hilarious the way people think they have been betrayed/lied to/bait and switched with this game. You just have to hope that these sorts will eventually wear themselves out or go back to the GW1 they love so much.

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

I’m pretty sure that was the intention because it’s coming from me.

Again, 13% still won’t matter in my opinion.

I do wish you’d just add this yourself instead of me having to keep correcting you.

Again, I don’t mind if you assert that you believe 13% will not matter in the subjective sense of a battle. But it is subjective. Your opinion.

Stop pretending that it’s fact.

Stop pretending like it matters.

Aristio.2784:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

A 5% increase to every single piece of armor, weapon, and trinket available gives player wearing full Ascended Berserker gear 13% more damage than someone who has Exotic Berserker gear.

Please, stop pretending that the difference in stats isn’t significant.

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

But let’s stop fabricating this fantasy that there isn’t a statistically significant difference between full Ascended gear and full Exotic gear. Because there is. It’s an undeniable mathematical fact.

It isn’t significant because we only have accessories right now.

And they’re in the process of adding the rest of them.

Once they do, get back to me.

In the mean time, it’s insignificant.

1? No, but 6 accessories will make a huge difference, especially if it’s celestial or berserker gear. The reason isn’t the raw stat increase. It’s the % increases. A 6/6 Ascended Berserker will destroy a 6/6 Exotics Berserker in raw damage. That % crit damage makes a difference. As I gain more pieces, I can definitely see it.

I like ascended gear, but to say it’s an insignificant difference from exotics is quite silly.

Ascened = Ar which is REQUIRED for fractals

Aristio.2784:

Stop pretending like it matters.

It does. I’ve shown that the difference is statistically significant.

You, on the other hand, have yet to prove how it doesn’t, beyond your own assertions that it doesn’t.

In any sort of formal debate, the guy who actually has numbers tends to be the one who “wins”. So you may wish to provide some actual evidence to back your claims now, if you please.

Amos.8760:

You can’t argue with this guy, Aristio.

Well, he can’t, but that’s because he can’t put together a coherent and evidence-backed argument.

I’ll be happy to yield to someone who can actually prove me wrong or at least come up with a good concrete counter-argument, but so far, I haven’t seen many people like that.

He’s determined to be upset about the game, and insists on doing it all over the forums. I personally find it hilarious the way people think they have been betrayed/lied to/bait and switched with this game. You just have to hope that these sorts will eventually wear themselves out or go back to the GW1 they love so much.

Yeah, I’m totally determined to be mad about the game that I still play on a regular basis. Because I hate it so much that I dedicate hours of my time to it every single day and….oh. Wait. That’s a preposterous argument, isn’t it? Whoops.

I do wish that people such as yourself would actually stop and think for a moment about why I’m complaining so much. Because if I was complaining simply because I hated the game, I would have just left the game months ago.

Salacious.7358:

Ascened = Ar which is REQUIRED for fractals

Point taken, but to be fair you can see all what fractals have to offer from 1-10.

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

Stop pretending like it matters.

It does. I’ve shown that the difference is statistically significant.

You, on the other hand, have yet to prove how it doesn’t, beyond your own assertions that it doesn’t.

In any sort of formal debate, the guy who actually has numbers tends to be the one who “wins”. So you may wish to provide some actual evidence to back your claims now, if you please.

Amos.8760:

You can’t argue with this guy, Aristio.

Well, he can’t, but that’s because he can’t put together a coherent and evidence-backed argument.

He’s determined to be upset about the game, and insists on doing it all over the forums. I personally find it hilarious the way people think they have been betrayed/lied to/bait and switched with this game. You just have to hope that these sorts will eventually wear themselves out or go back to the GW1 they love so much.

Yeah, I’m totally determined to be mad about the game that I still play on a regular basis. Because I hate it so much that I dedicate hours of my time to it every single day and….oh. Wait. That’s a preposterous argument, isn’t it? Whoops.

I do wish that people such as yourself would actually stop and think for a moment about why I’m complaining so much. Because if I was complaining simply because I hated the game, I would have just left the game months ago.

I missed the part where I said you hate the game. You are mad about it though – we can all see your post history. In fact, you’re so argumentative and upset about stuff all the time, that yours is one of a few forum names I know from memory because of it. I look over your post history and I can’t say I agree with much, if any, of it. Anyways – I’m gonna go enjoy the process of getting some more ascended gear. You all have fun arguing. Go ahead and have the last word, cause I’m gonna go play.

Amos.8760:

I missed the part where I said you hate the game. You are mad about it though – we can all see your post history. In fact, you’re so argumentative and upset about stuff all the time, that yours is one of a few forum names I know from memory because of it. I look over your post history and I can’t say I agree with much, if any, of it.

That’s fine. I don’t demand that anyone agree with me.

Only that they actually show respect for my point of view. Which you haven’t demonstrated. So you can expect me to hold your opinion in precisely the same level of regard as you have with mine.

Anyways – I’m gonna go enjoy the process of getting some more ascended gear. You all have fun arguing. Go ahead and have the last word, cause I’m gonna go play.

I already finished my daily as of this post. I’ve been playing for about two hours now, because (imagine this) I can actually multi-task.

It’s awfully cute that you’re implying that I spend so much time on these forums that I can’t possibly play the game with any regularity, but unfortunately for you, you’re wrong about that, as well.

Keep your snide remarks to yourself next time, or save it for PM. I’m looking for a reasonable debate, and you’re clearly not capable of providing it. So please, next time just keep it to yourself. Thanks!

critickitten.1498

I do wish that people such as yourself would actually stop and think for a moment about why I’m complaining so much. Because if I was complaining simply because I hated the game, I would have just left the game months ago.

This is a good point – we both get into things because we enjoy the game and have thoughts/feeling about where it should go. Also makes it a bit easy to get blunt or worse when conversing…

Just as long as we are in agreement about the dead manifesto the rest will shake itself out! ;-)

critickitten.1498:

Well, he can’t, but that’s because he can’t put together a coherent and evidence-backed argument.

In a pure numbers game, where we one strives to have bigger numbers, higher % ratings, and a better overall HPS/DPS; 13% is a huge increase. This is do the how the aftermentioned game is played from a mechanical standpoint. We have defined roles in a group. A tank who uses number to hold the attention of enemies and reduce damage, players who use numbers do damage for the sake of beating rage timers or making the content go quicker, and players who use numbers to increase their outgoing healing. However, this is not the case in Guild Wars 2.

Monsters cannot be “tanked” in the traditional sense of MMO’s. This is an important fact, as everybody in the group in Guild Wars 2 needs to put effort to survive. Thus, they cannot stand stationary in a predetermined spot to increase their DPS as much as possible. (They could, but with poor results in their HP)

There are many variables that makes pure numbers in Guild Wars 2 negligible. With their own survival on the line, most players have to deal with agro from the enemy they are attacking. This means using their own CC, using their healing abilities, dodging, and other tactics. Every second they spend on insuring their own survival, it lowers their overall damage or DPS. This makes it near impossible to accurately measure what 13% actually does for you. Increasing your damage by 13% may attract the attention of the enemy(ies), forcing you to take tactics into survival. As mentioned before, using your healing ability, crowd control, or avoidance tactics; will reduce your DPS.

Yes, it does increase your damage by a flat 13%. Will that 13% help you in situations where you aren’t at the mercy of the boss, or being focused by a group of mobs? The real increase in effectiveness is hard to measure, and should not be treated as loosely as a raw numbers increase.

Aristio.2784:

critickitten.1498:

Well, he can’t, but that’s because he can’t put together a coherent and evidence-backed argument.

In a pure numbers game, where we one strives to have bigger numbers, higher % ratings, and a better overall HPS/DPS; 13% is a huge increase. This is do the how the aftermentioned game is played from a mechanical standpoint. We have defined roles in a group. A tank who uses number to hold the attention of enemies and reduce damage, players who use numbers do damage for the sake of beating rage timers or making the content go quicker, and players who use numbers to increase their outgoing healing. However, this is not the case in Guild Wars 2.

Monsters cannot be “tanked” in the traditional sense of MMO’s. This is an important fact, as everybody in the group in Guild Wars 2 needs to put effort to survive. Thus, they cannot stand stationary in a predetermined spot to increase their DPS as much as possible. (They could, but with poor results in their HP)

There are many variables that makes pure numbers in Guild Wars 2 negligible. With their own survival on the line, most players have to deal with agro from the enemy they are attacking. This means using their own CC, using their healing abilities, dodging, and other tactics. Every second they spend on insuring their own survival, it lowers their overall damage or DPS. This makes it near impossible to accurately measure what 13% actually does for you. Increasing your damage by 13% may attract the attention of the enemy(ies), forcing you to take tactics into survival. As mentioned before, using your healing ability, crowd control, or avoidance tactics; will reduce your DPS.

Yes, it does increase your damage by a flat 13%. Will that 13% help you in situations where you aren’t at the mercy of the boss, or being focused by a group of mobs? The real increase in effectiveness is hard to measure, and should not be treated as loosely as a raw numbers increase.

Except that whenever you’re dealing damage, you’re dealing on average 13% more. There is no skill or situational variable to include, as it is done regardless.
You ARE doing that much more damage during whatever time you’re spending dealing damage.
Which means it IS a 13% increase.

Aristio.2784:

-snip-

That’s much better!

Your points are mostly correct and fair enough. I don’t object to the notion that the statistical increase isn’t game-breaking. I simply object to the notion that it’s “meaningless”.

Also, one problem:

Monsters cannot be “tanked” in the traditional sense of MMO’s. This is an important fact, as everybody in the group in Guild Wars 2 needs to put effort to survive. Thus, they cannot stand stationary in a predetermined spot to increase their DPS as much as possible. (They could, but with poor results in their HP)

My Guardian isn’t even fully dedicated to tank stats yet, and yet is perfectly capable of tanking any veteran, and quite a few champion mobs.

Yes, without moving.

But that’s more a testament to the fact that Guardian is pretty horrendously broken.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Except that whenever you’re dealing damage, you’re dealing on average 13% more. There is no skill or situational variable to include, as it is done regardless.
You ARE doing that much more damage during whatever time you’re spending dealing damage.
Which means it IS a 13% increase.

My point is that while it may increase your instantaneous damage or burst damage, its real effectiveness is near impossible to measure. Especially on anything that is worth bringing to extra stats to. (Fractal bosses and such)