Guild Wars 2

Aristio.2784:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Except that whenever you’re dealing damage, you’re dealing on average 13% more. There is no skill or situational variable to include, as it is done regardless.
You ARE doing that much more damage during whatever time you’re spending dealing damage.
Which means it IS a 13% increase.

My point is that while it may increase your instantaneous damage or burst damage, its real effectiveness is near impossible to measure. Especially on anything that is worth bringing to extra stats to. (Fractal bosses and such)

And the discussion has been sucessfully diverted away from the fact that we are still on the first tier and “out of date” whining is completely unfounded…. for now.

critickitten.1498:

Aristio.2784:

There’s a reason why people laugh at real-life comparisons. Because they’re extremes and really silly to compare it to. You’re comparing a slight increase in power in a video game, to a major life-changing event. Get over it.

The logic is identical.

You don’t think something is a problem now, while it can still be mitigated, but then you want to maintain the right to complain if it becomes a problem later, after it’s much too late to fix.

I understand that perhaps you do not see any problem with a total lack of foresight, but at least comprehend the fact that some of us like to try and fix problems before they become too serious to ignore.

13% still is meaningless.

Then go into work tomorrow and tell your boss that you’re okay with a 13% pay cut, because after all, it’s completely meaningless.

Yes, that’s another real life comparison. Guess you’ll just have to “get over it”.

I +1’ed this post because I foolishly thought that it nailed this argument… I guess some people will not see what’s right in front of them no matter how hard you try to show them.

My humble 2c:
The problem with Ascended is not the 13% difference in stats. It is the fact that the 13% difference in stats will come around again and again for every tier after Ascended.
The only solution for those of us apposed to gear grind is legendary weapons and armor with its promised BiS for the life of the game. But, with RNG being a major part of obtaining these items, it really isn’t much of a solution, is it…

RNG impact is being decreased.

Even if it is 13% every time, gear pathways should bring you into the current tier from any point if Anet get it right, its quite reasonable to get into full exotic and then hop to current tier, so the treadmill only applies if you spend all your time actively watching your feet while you run on it.

You know how often a lot of people worry about improving their gear? In between having fun.

To be fair, the devs have claimed that they would not introduce a new tier beyond Ascended.

However, they still said that the game will continue with vertical progression. Ergo they will apparently be looking for ways to keep you going after new gear without actually making a new tier of gear. Raising the level cap is perhaps the easiest way to do that, but I don’t expect that to occur until their first expansion. So I’m rather curious how they intend to make this work.

critickitten.1498:

To be fair, the devs have claimed that they would not introduce a new tier beyond Ascended.

I understood that as “no additional tier in 2013”, sorry.

Will indeed be interesting to see how they plan on making vertical progression work…

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

I understood that as “no additional tier in 2013”, sorry.

Will indeed be interesting to see how they plan on making vertical progression work…

You didn’t hear wrong, it’s just that they’ve made two separate claims.

I’m referring to a claim they made back in November after the Lost Shores patch drove many people away from the game.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

So to the question of vertical progression. So as we know there is already vertical progression in the game and we do intend to keep moving forward with this philosophy. However we have no intention of adding a new Rarity of Gear such as Ascended. Instead and as we evolve the game existing Rarity’s will evolve over time. However these will not be common occurrences, for example full Ascended gear will be introduced over a long period of time and will be earn able through lots of different parts/activities of the game. We had intended for example for the first release of acsended items come from other parts of the game but sadly it did not work out this way. Moving forward this is how it will work however.

Though as I went back and read it again, I noticed this one on the same page:

We do not intend to deploy another tier/rarity of loot such as Rare>Exotic. However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward.

So perhaps I’m mistaken and they really will introduce another tier after Ascended. This second quote does appear to be trying to leave that door open.

They way I’ve been reading that one is much like the WoW purples (plus iLevel) type approach (for sake of quick explaination/comparison).

Once the torches burn out from that one they’ll announce a level cap increase, perhaps major expac/content pack ($$$$).

I could sympathize with the argument against Ascended items if the grind were moderate to heavy in order to obtain them. But it really isn’t. Compared to competing MMORPG’s, they’re practically giving us top-tier gear. They have to have some kind of buffer there, and daily accumulation (fractals / daily / monthly) is a great way to do that, because it doesn’t force non-hardcore players to do the same thing twenty times a day for two weeks to get that slightly better chestpiece.

Why don’t they just let us unlock abilities like GW1 ? We could have horizontal progression where people can make alternate weapon ability sets. If you don’t want to you don’t have to do it. It would just be adding content with out leaving anyone in the dust like the gear treadmill does.

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Objectively speaking, you can do anything at lv 78 full Masterwork gear.

Now tell me, what % increase from one tier to the next is fine? What becomes too much? 10%? 20%? 50%? People say Ascended gear is fine because it’s only X% better than Exotics. It doesn’t matter how low the % is, it’s still a definite improvement on your character and how well you perform that, to obtain, requires long-term dedications to doing things you don’t want to do.

Do you want the game to be skill based, or skill/gear based hybrid? I, and I’m sure most people, would prefer to have their wins and losses based entirely on their skill rather than it being part skill/part gear.

BUT here’s the ultimate question. How does Ascended gear make the game better for the players? When you can answer this question reasonably, THEN you can argue in favor of it with credibility. Until then you have 0 pros and I have many cons.

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Well, first of all it’s wrong, seeing as GW1 was the least bad at it (at least before Nightfall)
And secondly, that’s not the argument his analogy puts forth. Being the least bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Well, first of all it’s wrong, seeing as GW1 was the least bad at it (at least before Nightfall)
And secondly, that’s not the argument his analogy puts forth. Being the least bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Are GW1 players primarily the playerbase upset by Ascended items?

I come from a huge background of MMO’s, but GW1 is not one of them. I like a fast gear grind like GW2 because I still feel like I earned my gear, but I didn’t waste weeks to get it. I couldn’t imagine a completely grind-free MMO… I wouldn’t know what to do.

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Someone walks up to you and slaps you 46 times. I walk up and slap you once. I’m therefore the best at not slapping you, and therefore me slapping you was okay?

That’s what you’re saying.

Alarox.4590:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Someone walks up to you and slaps you 46 times. I walk up and slap you once. I’m therefore the best at not slapping you, and therefore me slapping you was okay?

That’s what you’re saying.

That depends. Are you really hot? At least 8/10?

zuraith.6104:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Well, first of all it’s wrong, seeing as GW1 was the least bad at it (at least before Nightfall)
And secondly, that’s not the argument his analogy puts forth. Being the least bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Are GW1 players primarily the playerbase upset by Ascended items?

I come from a huge background of MMO’s, but GW1 is not one of them. I like a fast gear grind like GW2 because I still feel like I earned my gear, but I didn’t waste weeks to get it. I couldn’t imagine a completely grind-free MMO… I wouldn’t know what to do.

GW2 is not a fast grind. Dailies every day for months to gear out one character? Exotics were fine and are described exactly how you talk about GW2. You could get them through any playstyle, but it was gradual and you felt accomplished at getting the stats you want. Then you spend time getting the skins you want and also feel accomplished.

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Someone walks up to you and slaps you 46 times. I walk up and slap you once. I’m therefore the best at not slapping you, and therefore me slapping you was okay?

That’s what you’re saying.

That depends. Are you really hot? At least 8/10?

7/10, sorry

zuraith.6104:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Well, first of all it’s wrong, seeing as GW1 was the least bad at it (at least before Nightfall)
And secondly, that’s not the argument his analogy puts forth. Being the least bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Are GW1 players primarily the playerbase upset by Ascended items?

I come from a huge background of MMO’s, but GW1 is not one of them. I like a fast gear grind like GW2 because I still feel like I earned my gear, but I didn’t waste weeks to get it. I couldn’t imagine a completely grind-free MMO… I wouldn’t know what to do.

I don’t know if it’s mostly GW1 players, but I’d wager that most GW1 players have a problem with it.
There was grind in GW1, but prior to Nightfall it was almost entirely cosmetic. Top tier gear wasn’t particularly difficult to acquire. Most runes were fairly inexpensive, except Major/Superior Vigors and a handful of other runes.
There was a very significant grind for aesthetic items, however. Vabbian, Primeval, and especially Obsidian armors were extremely expensive, and were generally used to show that the person had plenty of money and played a long time (and some actually looked good).
What did people do in endgame? Probably PvP for the most part. And Hard Mode when they released that.

But what GW1 never did was add stronger gear. A few new runes were added for filler purposes (all runes improved 1 attribute, health, or for warrior gave damage reduction, and none would stack with a similar rune, so most of the time there would be 1 or 2 armor slots without a rune, so they added a few runes that weren’t particularly powerful but were still useful if you had nothing else to put there), and Major runes and Staves were buffed somewhere along the way, but that’s it.

Substance E.4852:

Go tell someone their Legendary won’t get upgraded to pink stats when Ascended weapons come out and see how well they take it.

lol Well Said!!

Alarox.4590:

zuraith.6104:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Well, first of all it’s wrong, seeing as GW1 was the least bad at it (at least before Nightfall)
And secondly, that’s not the argument his analogy puts forth. Being the least bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Are GW1 players primarily the playerbase upset by Ascended items?

I come from a huge background of MMO’s, but GW1 is not one of them. I like a fast gear grind like GW2 because I still feel like I earned my gear, but I didn’t waste weeks to get it. I couldn’t imagine a completely grind-free MMO… I wouldn’t know what to do.

GW2 is not a fast grind. Dailies every day for months to gear out one character? Exotics were fine and are described exactly how you talk about GW2. You could get them through any playstyle, but it was gradual and you felt accomplished at getting the stats you want. Then you spend time getting the skins you want and also feel accomplished.

Sorry, I used the wrong word. I meant fast in terms of time grinding, not realtime passed. The dailies for laurels only take 15-20 minutes (even with the new silly ones…) and daily fractals don’t take long if you have a decent handful of friends. I’m putting about 2-3 hours a night into GW2 and grinding toward top-tier gear just as fast as my friends who sink their entire evenings into the game.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

zuraith.6104:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

zuraith.6104:

Alarox.4590:

“It’s not as bad as other games so it’s okay”.
“It’s not as bad as the Holocaust, so a little mass murder is okay”.

Bad argument.

Least bad at something = best at it.

Why is that a bad argument?

Well, first of all it’s wrong, seeing as GW1 was the least bad at it (at least before Nightfall)
And secondly, that’s not the argument his analogy puts forth. Being the least bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Are GW1 players primarily the playerbase upset by Ascended items?

I come from a huge background of MMO’s, but GW1 is not one of them. I like a fast gear grind like GW2 because I still feel like I earned my gear, but I didn’t waste weeks to get it. I couldn’t imagine a completely grind-free MMO… I wouldn’t know what to do.

I don’t know if it’s mostly GW1 players, but I’d wager that most GW1 players have a problem with it.
There was grind in GW1, but prior to Nightfall it was almost entirely cosmetic. Top tier gear wasn’t particularly difficult to acquire. Most runes were fairly inexpensive, except Major/Superior Vigors and a handful of other runes.
There was a very significant grind for aesthetic items, however. Vabbian, Primeval, and especially Obsidian armors were extremely expensive, and were generally used to show that the person had plenty of money and played a long time (and some actually looked good).
What did people do in endgame? Probably PvP for the most part. And Hard Mode when they released that.

But what GW1 never did was add stronger gear. A few new runes were added for filler purposes (all runes improved 1 attribute, health, or for warrior gave damage reduction, and none would stack with a similar rune, so most of the time there would be 1 or 2 armor slots without a rune, so they added a few runes that weren’t particularly powerful but were still useful if you had nothing else to put there), and Major runes and Staves were buffed somewhere along the way, but that’s it.

It sounds like this is an issue of preference, though. Hard Mode sounds like something fun, but I would HATE to have to PvP for my endgame. I like working toward gear, getting it, and then having something else to work toward. I just don’t like an obligation of hours of gameplay a day. So, in my opinion:

Heavy/excessive grinding = bad
Fast to moderate grinding = good
No grinding = bad

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Aristio.2784:

13% still is meaningless.

wut? are you serious? 2 sigils of force can significantly bump up your damage, especially in berserker builds & that only gives 10%.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Yes, there’s gear progression, getting higher level higher tier gear.
But prior to this, there was no hint of the treadmill, the gradual, utterly pointless power creep of gear.
And now there’s Ascended, the first step of the treadmill.

Kaizer.7135:

Aristio.2784:

13% still is meaningless.

wut? are you serious? 2 sigils of force can significantly bump up your damage, especially in berserker builds & that only gives 10%.

Well, actually, Sigils of Force don’t stack with each other.
Better off using 1 Force and 1 Accuracy.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Yes, there’s gear progression, getting higher level higher tier gear.
But prior to this, there was no hint of the treadmill, the gradual, utterly pointless power creep of gear.
And now there’s Ascended, the first step of the treadmill.

In the end, anti-grind players are mostly worried about a possible new rarity?

They’ll run out of colors eventually!

gimmethegepgun.1284:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Yes, there’s gear progression, getting higher level higher tier gear.
But prior to this, there was no hint of the treadmill, the gradual, utterly pointless power creep of gear.
And now there’s Ascended, the first step of the treadmill.

Prior to this there was no hint of a treadmill? How can Exotic > Ascended be considered a treadmill, but Rare > Exotic not? That makes no sense to me.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Yes, there’s gear progression, getting higher level higher tier gear.
But prior to this, there was no hint of the treadmill, the gradual, utterly pointless power creep of gear.
And now there’s Ascended, the first step of the treadmill.

Prior to this there was no hint of a treadmill? How can Exotic > Ascended be considered a treadmill, but Rare > Exotic not? That makes no sense to me.

It’s rather simple. Exotics require little time to get compared to Ascended. Exotics can be obtained through any playstyle; Ascended can only be obtained through niche activities.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Yes, there’s gear progression, getting higher level higher tier gear.
But prior to this, there was no hint of the treadmill, the gradual, utterly pointless power creep of gear.
And now there’s Ascended, the first step of the treadmill.

Prior to this there was no hint of a treadmill? How can Exotic > Ascended be considered a treadmill, but Rare > Exotic not? That makes no sense to me.

A treadmill is when power creep is added (namely via gear) while enemies are boosted to compensate for the power creep. Thus, grind is needed after you already got best in slot in order to fight the stronger enemies that were only made stronger because of the power creep.
In short, spending energy moving forward without actually going anywhere. Like a treadmill.
It’s not a treadmill if they aren’t adding more powerful gear.

Alarox.4590:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

So a game that had gear progression from level 1 with blue > green > rare > exotic suddenly surprises and disappoints everyone when they add one more? Makes perfect sense. Especially seeing as to how there’s that huge amount of content that requires ascended gear. Oh wait…

Yes, there’s gear progression, getting higher level higher tier gear.
But prior to this, there was no hint of the treadmill, the gradual, utterly pointless power creep of gear.
And now there’s Ascended, the first step of the treadmill.

Prior to this there was no hint of a treadmill? How can Exotic > Ascended be considered a treadmill, but Rare > Exotic not? That makes no sense to me.

It’s rather simple. Exotics require little time to get compared to Ascended. Exotics can be obtained through any playstyle; Ascended can only be obtained through niche activities.

I’ve only been playing GW2 for a few of months and going from rare to exotic was by no means a simple process for me when I first hit 80. There’s a significant amount of time or money one has to invest to go from Rare > Exotic. So I don’t see why you were cool with that and not cool with Ascended except that the ways you get ascended don’t appeal to you.

Kaizer.7135:

Aristio.2784:

13% still is meaningless.

wut? are you serious? 2 sigils of force can significantly bump up your damage, especially in berserker builds & that only gives 10%.

I already stated my reasoning, go back and read on.

critickitten.1498:

You’re welcome to believe that differences in skill will help make up for that gap. And I’ll agree with you to some extent, because it’s a fair point. I’ll even go so far as to say that you don’t have to be decked in full Exotic gear, much less full Ascended, at this point in the game. Again, fair point.

You need max gear to compete with skilled max-gear opponents in WvW.

Keke.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

I’ve only been playing GW2 for a few of months and going from rare to exotic was by no means a simple process for me when I first hit 80. There’s a significant amount of time or money one has to invest to go from Rare > Exotic. So I don’t see why you were cool with that and not cool with Ascended except that the ways you get ascended don’t appeal to you.

Personally, the $ grind to get exotic gear kitten es me off. The first set is a pain, but tolerable.

It’s a huge and painful grind to get multiple sets to support multiple specs though. Especially for odd stats like Rabid that aren’t craftable. Gear roadblocks basically reduce my gametime by 50% because I’m not willing to grind the kitten out of PvE in order to support different builds.

For those that do not like the vertical progression, what is the progression for you? I mean outside of PvP, why do you play if you cannot advance your character in some way? For me, the two best ways to advance my character are via story and gear. I’ve completed the personal story, so until they add more story, that leaves achieving better gear.

Before Ascended gear, after exotics, and after completing my personal story, I felt no reason to play. I ended up (pretty much) quitting right before Ascended gear was introduced and only came back a few days ago.

The concept is pretty simple actually. All games need to provide players with a sense of progression; it’s one of the reasons we play. So, if you are unfamiliar with MMO’s that’s generally a choice between vertical progression and horizontal progression. In GW2, after 11/15, we have vertical progression and that was what the uproar was about. GW1 was horizontal and current thinking in game design favors horizontal over vertical. What currently drives vertical is the success of WoW with it and the fact that it has shaped a large population of players. Some people like it, some don’t, but to get a better idea of the issues in play, I’m linking a couple videos on the subject.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/power-creep

http://taugrim.com/2012/04/19/why-games-should-scale-horizontally-instead-of-vertically/

I do like some of the points on that 2nd link of yours.

Having leaderboards for things like fastest runs through dungeons could be cool. It’d be even cooler if the leaderboards were actual boards in lions arch that you could walk up to and see.

That said, I still like the idea of vertical progression.

Aristio.2784:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Except that whenever you’re dealing damage, you’re dealing on average 13% more. There is no skill or situational variable to include, as it is done regardless.
You ARE doing that much more damage during whatever time you’re spending dealing damage.
Which means it IS a 13% increase.

My point is that while it may increase your instantaneous damage or burst damage, its real effectiveness is near impossible to measure. Especially on anything that is worth bringing to extra stats to. (Fractal bosses and such)

I must say your logic isn´t logically at all. Just because we (the Players) have no possibility to measure the 13% statincrease dosn`t mean it is there. That would be the same as you would be standing right in front of Zhaitan, alone, in openworld (since u don´t like reallife comparisons i give u something you know) without a weapon, you close your eyes and keep repeating to yourself “i can´t see you, you are not there, you can not hurt me because i can´t see it happen”….. guess what: you´ll get squished.
And if it comes to reallife comparisons, go out i would like to see anyone try that. Just substitude Orr with a highway and Thaitan with a rig. You do the math.

You can try to make yourself believe that 13% won´t matter (how do u know the statincrease of upcoming armor and weapons isn´t even bigger than what is actually with jewelry?), but the simple math proves u wrong.

I personally have no problems with ascended gear. It is for doing fractals? Fine let it stay for that pourpose. Just scale it down to exotic-level in WvW and i am totally fine with that. Hey and if they don´t, and i feel that ascended gear matters to much in WvW, i´ll quit. And in my oppinion, i think i won´t be the only one and it won´t be just a few.
We´ll just have to wait and see. But til than it is ok for people to talk about their concerns about ascended, without people saying they are wrong and simply refuse to admit simple math.

Nobody wants to take ascended items away. But for WvW people said at the start “you are suppose to be a victim when being badly geared in WvW or even lowlevel”, and now what happend? Right Arenanet raised the scaling of stats for lowlevel players to provide more equal chances. Guess sooner or later it will happen to the ascended to since people tend to not leave ascended only for fractals.

Arale.4207:

What people want isn’t always what people get. Even ANet isn’t above this absolute truth. They may have wanted to keep things that way, but for whatever reason (NCsoft, betrayal, UFO’s, other MMO’s, jesus) they were unable to. I can’t fault them for that, because I don’t recall them saying THIS IS HOW IT WILL BE I PROMISE. They wanted, but did not get. That extends to the players who also wanted but in the same fashion did not get.

I for one like ascended items. It’s not forced on anyone unless a part of them deep down wants to have ‘the best stuff’ in which case, that’s more of a personal dilemma honestly.

I put my money on jesus.
Yeah jesus or unicorns.

Anyway it is not a personal dilemma to want to be on equal level to other players, and be rewarded for being skilled and not for the time that you can invest in a game.
I feel it’s more strange the fact that some people want to be “strong” in that kind of way :/

Arrclyde.6358:

Aristio.2784:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Except that whenever you’re dealing damage, you’re dealing on average 13% more. There is no skill or situational variable to include, as it is done regardless.
You ARE doing that much more damage during whatever time you’re spending dealing damage.
Which means it IS a 13% increase.

My point is that while it may increase your instantaneous damage or burst damage, its real effectiveness is near impossible to measure. Especially on anything that is worth bringing to extra stats to. (Fractal bosses and such)

I must say your logic isn´t logically at all. Just because we (the Players) have no possibility to measure the 13% statincrease dosn`t mean it is there. That would be the same as you would be standing right in front of Zhaitan, alone, in openworld (since u don´t like reallife comparisons i give u something you know) without a weapon, you close your eyes and keep repeating to yourself “i can´t see you, you are not there, you can not hurt me because i can´t see it happen”….. guess what: you´ll get squished.
And if it comes to reallife comparisons, go out i would like to see anyone try that. Just substitude Orr with a highway and Thaitan with a rig. You do the math.

You can try to make yourself believe that 13% won´t matter (how do u know the statincrease of upcoming armor and weapons isn´t even bigger than what is actually with jewelry?), but the simple math proves u wrong.

I personally have no problems with ascended gear. It is for doing fractals? Fine let it stay for that pourpose. Just scale it down to exotic-level in WvW and i am totally fine with that. Hey and if they don´t, and i feel that ascended gear matters to much in WvW, i´ll quit. And in my oppinion, i think i won´t be the only one and it won´t be just a few.
We´ll just have to wait and see. But til than it is ok for people to talk about their concerns about ascended, without people saying they are wrong and simply refuse to admit simple math.

Nobody wants to take ascended items away. But for WvW people said at the start “you are suppose to be a victim when being badly geared in WvW or even lowlevel”, and now what happend? Right Arenanet raised the scaling of stats for lowlevel players to provide more equal chances. Guess sooner or later it will happen to the ascended to since people tend to not leave ascended only for fractals.

I fully understand the raw stat increase will have an effect. I’m saying that the effect is miniscule in the grand scale of combat that is GW2.

I think a proper analogy is if Ascended gear made mobs drop 15 more copper than if you had Exotics. Is it an increase? Yes. Will 15 copper -really- matter? Not really, but to some it will.

@critickitten

You are not going to get through to these guys. You are being logical. There is so much more to this other than the significant increase in stats. It’s about the breach of trust on many levels. The signs of what will come in the future. I appreciate your post sir. You make sound points and just wanted to let you know that some of us are listening to what sense you are making.

@Platypus

You see it is a breach of trust, I see it as an ability to adapt their current model to demands of the gamers. Many gamers were complaining about lack of endgame among other things, this and fractals were two of their additions to address that concern.

My trust isn’t in ANets ability to do everything exactly how they once said it was, as that is not feasible. My trust is that they will continue to work to make the best game they can, and that they will continue to listen and address the concerns of the gamers.

With that, I trust that they are monitoring these forums and listening to everything we are saying. They will then do their best to address all the concerns everyone has with Ascended gear – this doesn’t necessarily mean removing the gear, but may involve changes to how it is implemented.

That said, I personally do not want them to change it, but I trust that they will.

Jemmi.6058:

Agreed.

Also, for me, I like the added ‘treadmill’. I feel like I have a goal of what I want to accomplish with my character.

thing is, if they would just admit they changed their course, you could take them seriously, but the corporate strategy is still “all fine, move along, there is nothing to see here”.

Jemmi.6058:

@Platypus

You see it is a breach of trust, I see it as an ability to adapt their current model to demands of the gamers. Many gamers were complaining about lack of endgame among other things, this and fractals were two of their additions to address that concern.

My trust isn’t in ANets ability to do everything exactly how they once said it was, as that is not feasible. My trust is that they will continue to work to make the best game they can, and that they will continue to listen and address the concerns of the gamers.

With that, I trust that they are monitoring these forums and listening to everything we are saying. They will then do their best to address all the concerns everyone has with Ascended gear – this doesn’t necessarily mean removing the gear, but may involve changes to how it is implemented.

That said, I personally do not want them to change it, but I trust that they will.

I don’t want to get into it here. I am happy you are enjoying the game and that you are satisfied with how A.Net has handled itself. I wish I could said I felt the same. Don’t get me wrong. I am enjoying the game. I am lucky enough to be in a large guild of real friends and have time to play often. The new gear has not been a problem for me.

I do not believe that A.Net is monitoring what the player base is saying. There are problems that have been mentioned since launch that still have not been addressed. Core problems. You can find these in many threads here if you wish to know more about them. We have been lied to many times in the recent past. A pattern is emerging here. Not enough to push me away, but still makes me a bit sad. I am not alone in feeling this way. The new pinks is just a small part of it.

Platypus.7831:

@critickitten

You are not going to get through to these guys. You are being logical. There is so much more to this other than the significant increase in stats. It’s about the breach of trust on many levels. The signs of what will come in the future. I appreciate your post sir. You make sound points and just wanted to let you know that some of us are listening to what sense you are making.

What breach of trust are you talking about? I hear this all the time, and I don’t see anywhere that Anet has gone against something they’ve previously said. All I see are perceived slights, mostly by GW1 players.