Guild Wars 2

Why? Because I believe they said the balance changes they talked about at TwitchCon drops tomorrow including the Ice Bow nerf. And we all know some players don’t like the challenge of changing their builds to accommodate a balance patch.

Wonder how those outraged are going to blame P4F account for this or are they done with P4F and moved onto “healers” in Raids or the rumored death of the Zerk Meta.

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

Nah. I can’t see the connection to blame P4F :/ ..

Some people will cry but not for long I guess.

Ive never seen an, “I win,” button nerfed without outrage from those who have come to believe that facerolling content by relying on a broken skill/mechanic/etc means that they are somehow highly skilled elite players.

Maybe my buddy will be outraged, I promised him a pic if thief gets a significant buff (20% more damage on pistol doesn’t count).

Jana.6831:

(20% more damage on pistol doesn’t count)

It does for me! It’ll still be near-useless without Ricochet, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Also, I’m pretty sure many people have been asking for Ice Bow nerf, they’ll definitely be pleased.

Also also, thanks for the Flamethrower AA buff, as well.

Also also also (this is the last also, I promise!), I admittedly QQ’d a little about the FMW nerf, cause the way it was supposedly abused barely applied to the way I play (i.e., mostly roaming open world alone). But whatever, I don’t care THAT much. Maybe they’ll make it instant-cast like the other shouts (hey, I can dream).

Ariurotl.3718:

Jana.6831:

(20% more damage on pistol doesn’t count)

It does for me! It’ll still be near-useless without Ricochet, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Good for you =)
They destroyed my D/D thief in June, so a pistol buff isn’t helping me – and it took them 3 months for a balance patch, so I don’t think I will be holding my breath for much longer.

Roundabout.1752:

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Leagues-1/first#post5511329

Yep, PvP is a barren wasteland with tumbleweeds.

Roundabout.1752:

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

i’ll be so glad to not have to see ice bow everywhere in pvp, man that kitten was getting annoying…

Behellagh.1468:

Roundabout.1752:

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Leagues-1/first#post5511329

Yep, PvP is a barren wasteland with tumbleweeds.

It actually is, them saying that it is the fastest increasing gamemode in terms of population isn’t saying much when your population is already low. If 15 people join and the original population was 5 that is a 300% increase but it is nothing compared to the amount of ppl you will see in PvE and WvW.

I don’t exactly believe them when they say it “earns them money” because honestly their esports showings are small with relatively small payouts. Not only that but how does it earn them money with only 6k views average? Less than 1/3rd of the average views on say a general Guild wars 2 content video. I think they are just trying to promote it to cash in on the esports trend.

Besides that…It still isn’t a good reason to balance around PvP “Well it is the fastest growing gamemode” that doesn’t mean it is the only gamemode.

ice bow and pu nerf been needed for long time stop whining, pu nerf doesnt go far enough imo though

X T D.6458:

ice bow and pu nerf been needed for long time stop whining, pu nerf doesnt go far enough imo though

“stop whining” isn’t a legitimate argument, that is literally like telling somebody to shut up without giving reasoning. If anything telling the people who are legitimately concerned about balance being skewed that they are “whining” and they must be a fan of “insert class that got nerfed here” is definitely setting up a strawman about the people who are concerned.

What people are dissatisfied with is that “Balance” is based off a gamemode which is a small part of the game not counting all the players who go in just for dailies/reward tracks with friends.

Senario.2038:

X T D.6458:

ice bow and pu nerf been needed for long time stop whining, pu nerf doesnt go far enough imo though

“stop whining” isn’t a legitimate argument, that is literally like telling somebody to shut up without giving reasoning. If anything telling the people who are legitimately concerned about balance being skewed that they are “whining” and they must be a fan of “insert class that got nerfed here” is definitely setting up a strawman about the people who are concerned.

What people are dissatisfied with is that “Balance” is based off a gamemode which is a small part of the game not counting all the players who go in just for dailies/reward tracks with friends.

Yes because nothing in this game is every centered around pve right? please….

X T D.6458:

Senario.2038:

X T D.6458:

ice bow and pu nerf been needed for long time stop whining, pu nerf doesnt go far enough imo though

“stop whining” isn’t a legitimate argument, that is literally like telling somebody to shut up without giving reasoning. If anything telling the people who are legitimately concerned about balance being skewed that they are “whining” and they must be a fan of “insert class that got nerfed here” is definitely setting up a strawman about the people who are concerned.

What people are dissatisfied with is that “Balance” is based off a gamemode which is a small part of the game not counting all the players who go in just for dailies/reward tracks with friends.

Yes because nothing in this game is every centered around pve right? please….

Putting words in my mouth, I never said everything is centered around PvE. What I am saying is that PvP makes up a small population compared to the other two modes of World v World and PvE. Of course if you aren’t even willing to have a discourse about the legitimacy of balancing over one mode then I can’t help you.

If it matters to you, I really could care less about icebow. And that was nerfed FOR PvE. I don’t know of many examples using it in WvW and PvP.

Would be hard to believe a hundred or so people attacking one target cant swap the damage from that main icebow skill lolz

I do not whine about it. It a game, and if I have to whine about a little change, then I need some help. I will adjust, and play like normal. I may talk about if I like or dislike a change, but I see no reason to be angry about it. The changes will come, and we shall see how it goes from there.

Roundabout.1752:

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

Except Icebow was a PvE nerf :-D

Anyway, this will be the best kittenstorm since launch..i waited this for SO long.

Today’s gonna be great. Alllll the tearrrrsssss. Can’t wait.

Does anyone know what time skill updates like these are usually released?

Wow, such blatant trolling. Good work Behellagh.

Looking forward to this alot!

Remember, there will not only be nerfs. Be prepared for new metas good people.

Behellagh.1468:

Roundabout.1752:

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Leagues-1/first#post5511329

Yep, PvP is a barren wasteland with tumbleweeds.

Notice how they never mentioned how significant PvP population is compared to other game modes. It may be growing fast (whatever that means), but it’s still just tiny compared to PvE.

has anyone typed up a list of changes or is there a stream capture somewhere with the details? or do we really not know that much?

Kodiak.4213:

has anyone typed up a list of changes or is there a stream capture somewhere with the details? or do we really not know that much?

They havent released it all but this is what is hot topic atm.
http://dulfy.net/2015/09/26/gw2-twitchcon-skill-balance-update-preview/

Hmm… nerf of FB, Sceptre dragon’s tooth easier to aim and LH remains untouched even though there were rumors about a LH nerf…

This looks like S/F/LH mightstacking eles will see a return. This however will make Phalanx warriors useless, so warrior goes back to banners + pure dps. I’d better get some strength runes before the other eles do.

Roundabout.1752:

Nope we’ll blame PvP because this game is balance around PvP no matter how few play it.

Nobody ever uses Icebow in Pvp but yeah sure it was nerfed because of PvP not because 1 skill dominated the PvE meta for 3 years. /s

What does P4F mean?

Someone else said something about the ‘PU nerf not going far enough’. What’s PU?

notebene.3190:

What does P4F mean?

Someone else said something about the ‘PU nerf not going far enough’. What’s PU?

P4F or F2P = Play for free or Free to play
PU or PUG = Pick up or Pick up group

Kodiak.4213:

has anyone typed up a list of changes or is there a stream capture somewhere with the details? or do we really not know that much?

At Twitchcon they only went over the major bullet points in changes. They did not go over every single change. We won’t know them all till today. They are did state that the balance patch is not huge but important none the less.

The ice bow nerf is detrimental for two reasons:

1.No one ever uses it in PvP and rarely in WvW.

2.PvE content will take longer to clear.

I say reverse the nerf.

Agemnon.4608:

The ice bow nerf is detrimental for two reasons:

1.No one ever uses it in PvP and rarely in WvW.

2.PvE content will take longer to clear.

I say reverse the nerf.

If the time it takes to clear content is to be the only, or primary, consideration for game balance then all skills should do more damage in a single hit than any mob has health.

Ashen.2907:

Agemnon.4608:

The ice bow nerf is detrimental for two reasons:

1.No one ever uses it in PvP and rarely in WvW.

2.PvE content will take longer to clear.

I say reverse the nerf.

If the time it takes to clear content is to be the only, or primary, consideration for game balance then all skills should do more damage in a single hit than any mob has health.

It’s only used in PvE where balance isn’t important. In high level fractcals warriors with full soldier’s still get one shotted making berzerker far more valuable. Where’s the balance there? Bosses get defiance, have large HP pools, large damage output, and sometimes cheap mechanics like Molten and Mai Trin where you can get knocked off, have to watch multiple bosses (so you can’t just watch tells from one) and in Mai Trin’s case you need to lure her into a blue field shot by Turak (walk into electricity shot by someone with a red name! Sure is intuitive!) They also have more attacks than you have dodges so even if you know to dodge you can’t because endurance limits.

With such cheapness players don’t owe bosses anything less than the best and most efficient strategies being employed.

Revolutionen.5693:

Does anyone know what time skill updates like these are usually released?

I’m East Coast time, it tends to drop around midday here.

I wonder how many people are going to be totally blindsided by this. Not everybody was watching/attending TwitchCon, ya know. Unless they heard it from their guilds (as I did) or are following the forums/Reddit, they may be in for a rude awakening.

For my part…meh, I just use my ele to traipse around after the world boss train anyway, I’ll slot something else and move on. Not gonna worry about doing major changes to any character’s build this close to the expansion.

Someone know when the balance patch hits?

ANet usually gets into the office around 9am PCT, which is Noon ET. So they usually drop any updates after the usual time they start for the day.

PyrateSilly.4710:

notebene.3190:

What does P4F mean?

Someone else said something about the ‘PU nerf not going far enough’. What’s PU?

P4F or F2P = Play for free or Free to play
PU or PUG = Pick up or Pick up group

PU is a super OP mesmer build and has nothing to do with pugs. When you get burst for 30k in 1s from stealth then congrats you were killed by a PU mesmer.

This balance patch seems like the first patch in quite some time that will actually restore some balance to the game. The IB nerf is amazing, ele and mesmer and being brought back down to earth with the rest of us mortals, and the lowest classes/builds are getting buffs to bring them up a bit.

I think we are actually moving towards balance for once.

Well it only took them less than 4 weeks sense my return after 2 years away to begin neutering my main class. Now I remember why I quit playing in the first place. It’s not balancing if your still screwing with things 3 years in.

Bad Wolf.1879:

Well it only took them less than 4 weeks sense my return after 2 years away to begin neutering my main class. Now I remember why I quit playing in the first place. It’s not balancing if your still screwing with things 3 years in.

That’s actually literally the definition of balancing… It would be much worse if they weren’t still making adjustments after only 3 years.

WoW does balance patches every 2-3 months for the last 10 years…

Agemnon.4608:

Ashen.2907:

Agemnon.4608:

The ice bow nerf is detrimental for two reasons:

1.No one ever uses it in PvP and rarely in WvW.

2.PvE content will take longer to clear.

I say reverse the nerf.

If the time it takes to clear content is to be the only, or primary, consideration for game balance then all skills should do more damage in a single hit than any mob has health.

It’s only used in PvE where balance isn’t important. In high level fractcals warriors with full soldier’s still get one shotted making berzerker far more valuable. Where’s the balance there? Bosses get defiance, have large HP pools, large damage output, and sometimes cheap mechanics like Molten and Mai Trin where you can get knocked off, have to watch multiple bosses (so you can’t just watch tells from one) and in Mai Trin’s case you need to lure her into a blue field shot by Turak (walk into electricity shot by someone with a red name! Sure is intuitive!) They also have more attacks than you have dodges so even if you know to dodge you can’t because endurance limits.

With such cheapness players don’t owe bosses anything less than the best and most efficient strategies being employed.

Guess someone hasnt been paying attention to the talk of raids going on in the next few months.

These changes are in preparation for HOT, nothing more. And its a good idea to launch them now so they have a few weeks to see how the changes go and fix any bugs.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PU is a super OP mesmer build and has nothing to do with pugs. When you get burst for 30k in 1s from stealth then congrats you were killed by a PU mesmer.

I have played online games since the BBS days … it is also used to talk about pick up groups …….

Ice Bow 4 has needed a hard nerf for years. No single skill should warp the meta as hard as Ice Bow 4 has, and certainly not a single skill on a single Conjure.

Now Anet just needs to get off their butts and figure out a way to make Conjures worth taking when they aren’t hideously OP.

“blame pvp”…ha, the common cry of pve scrubs who think only their interests within the game matter. Pvp is just as important as pve.

PyrateSilly.4710:

notebene.3190:

What does P4F mean?

Someone else said something about the ‘PU nerf not going far enough’. What’s PU?

P4F or F2P = Play for free or Free to play
PU or PUG = Pick up or Pick up group

PU is Prismatic Understanding, a Mesmer trait that used to grant +100% stealth uptime and has been nerfed to +50% stealth uptime with the upcoming balance patch. PUG is the only acceptable form of “pick-up group”. Otherwise, P4F is correct.

Anet just doesn’t like conjures, they don’t know how to gently swing the nerf hammer. Fiery greatsword got turned to dust and the ice bow will almost definitely go the same way.

I look forward to using that time i used to use for ice bow for something more active and fun like putting down a lava font under an enemy and then waiting for that lava font to run out and then putting down another lava font under that enemy.

Therodin.2970:

Anet just doesn’t like conjures, they don’t know how to gently swing the nerf hammer. Fiery greatsword got turned to dust and the ice bow will almost definitely go the same way.

ANet created the conjures, so they have liked them .. they mostly just haven’t expected
that some were so badly abused that it will be a problem. Oh and then there are also
always those people complaining that all content is too easy. Funny often the exact
same people that abuse those skills to death .. and then they wonder why it gets
nerfed.

Beldin.5498:

Therodin.2970:

Anet just doesn’t like conjures, they don’t know how to gently swing the nerf hammer. Fiery greatsword got turned to dust and the ice bow will almost definitely go the same way.

ANet created the conjures, so they have liked them .. they mostly just haven’t expected
that some were so badly abused that it will be a problem. Oh and then there are also
always those people complaining that all content is too easy. Funny often the exact
same people that abuse those skills to death .. and then they wonder why it gets
nerfed.

Can’t wait for all this challenge we will have without the icebow.

Oh yeah, now instead of boss’s dieing in 1 minute it might even take 2

I find it funny how IB being op in PvE didn’t bother ANet for 3 years and now that raids are coming ANet suddenly nerfs it.

My guess is that, thanks to raids being a thing, we’ll see some more balance patches for PvE in the future. How about nerfing wall of reflection next? Or making shadow refuge deal 1 point of damage in it’s area, so that it becomes impossible to stealth while surrounded by enemies? We could also replace the phalanx strength trait with something “more engaging”.

While this may sound exaggerated, those are very possible nerfs to bring those skills and traits in line with other skills and traits to promote build diversity.

I for one welcome our new balanced overlords.

In all honesty there are quite a few OP builds and UP builds running around out there. Balance patches are one of the healthiest things an MMO can do for the community.