Guild Wars 2

Why are people overly politically correct?

• The Outmanned buff has been renamed to Outnumbered

Why was this change so important? I know as of late there have been states that have changed their constitutions, to even the US Government changing many law bills so that words with “man” in them are changed around.

What’s next? Are we going to replace the term “mankind” with “peoplekind”? How about “humans” just being completely replaced with “Earthlings”?

Well, we are playing Sylvari, Norn, Asura and Charr who are not a part of mankind.

maybe they felt outnumbered was more self explanatory?

Outnumbered better describes the condition, outmanned could also mean one side is better at the game even if they have fewer players.

Not sure. Is it worth complaining about?

Goes both ways. Why are people overly sensitive to the mere possibility of political correctness?

They should have just called it the “kittened” buff.

There are a number of arguable practical reasons, like that there’s a second definition of “outmanned” that involves the other party being more masculine rather than more numerous, and that the game isn’t human-centric, but with that said…

Siphaed.9235:

Why was this change so important?

If it in fact isn’t an important distinction, why not err on the side of trying not to hurt people’s feelings?

It’s kind of illogical to state that the wording doesn’t matter in a thread complaining about a change to it. If it doesn’t matter, then who cares? If you care, then apparently it matters on some level.

That being the case, isn’t sensitivity generally preferable to insensitivity, especially when it’s an easy change?

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

There are a number of arguable practical reasons, like that there’s a second definition of “outmanned” that involves the other party being more masculine rather than more numerous, and that the game isn’t human-centric, but with that said…

Siphaed.9235:

Why was this change so important?

If it in fact isn’t an important distinction, why not err on the side of trying not to hurt people’s feelings?

It’s kind of illogical to state that the wording doesn’t matter in a thread complaining about a change to it. If it doesn’t matter, then who cares? If you care, then apparently it matters on some level.

That being the case, isn’t sensitivity generally preferable to insensitivity, especially when it’s an easy change?

Because if they changed every tiny thing that hurt some person’s -or group of people- feelings, it would leave us with absolutely nothing. Everything would be censored and we’d see nothing but a big black bar….oh wait, that might offend someone, nix the black bar. Just leave a blank space instead.

The base definition of man:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/man

c : a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) that is anatomically related to the great apes but distinguished especially by notable development of the brain with a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning, is usually considered to form a variable number of freely interbreeding races, and is the sole living representative of the hominid family; broadly : any living or extinct hominid

That’s what the definition means when you say something like “mankind” and “human”. It an overall broadened term towards all on Earth, no matter sex, race, creed, religion, or whatever. We are all man. It’s the fault of other individuals if they interpret a singular piece of a word, and decide to take it out of context to read it as something it’s not.

Outmanned = There are more of those bi-peddle enemies than your team. There’s no definition of sex within that statement, nor should some be thinking it’s “politically incorrect” when they read it out of context (i.e. wrong).

It isn’t political correctness. It would be political correctness if it was called:

World-to-World Tactical Unit Imbalance

as “Outnumbered” is a discouraging term to use in combat.

Do we know for a fact that the change was made for political correctness? It seems to me like they just decided outnumbered sounded better. I really can’t recall the last time I heard the word outmanned.

As a man I object to the removal of my male supremacy. All women are sexist for not acknowledging men are the superior sexe.

/sarcasm.

I want my buff to say “Outnorned”.

Spiral Architect.6540:

They should have just called it the “kittened” buff.

LOL, I support this. XD

Outdone. Really have to dig deep into the complaint idea jar tonight, don’t you? Wow.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Not sure. Is it worth complaining about?

Serenity.6149:

Goes both ways. Why are people overly sensitive to the mere possibility of political correctness?

op has a point. tho it might just be for clarity’s sake.

marnick.4305:

As a man I object to the removal of my male supremacy. All women are sexist for not acknowledging men are the superior sexe.

/sarcasm.

man
noun, plural men, verb, manned, man·ning, interjection
noun
1.
an adult male person, as distinguished from a boy or a woman.
2.
a member of the species |-|omo sapiens or all the members of this species collectively, without regard to sex: prehistoric man.

Kitten Sapiens? Look we’re talking about Humans here, not Charr.

Esplen.3940:

Well, we are playing Sylvari, Norn, Asura and Charr who are not a part of mankind.

Well, real world expressions have nothing to do with a random game’s lore.

Serenity.6149:

Goes both ways. Why are people overly sensitive to the mere possibility of political correctness?

because there is an underlying assumption that there’s someone being discriminated against here.

marnick.4305:

As a man I object to the removal of my male supremacy. All women are sexist for not acknowledging men are the superior sexe.

/sarcasm.

yes because women used to go to wars and hunt for food in prehistoric times.

Dawdler.8521:

I want my buff to say “Outnorned”.

“Outcharred” would be okay as well.

Dawdler.8521:

I want my buff to say “Outnorned”.

Hahaha, or “Outzerged”!

Serenity.6149:

Goes both ways. Why are people overly sensitive to the mere possibility of political correctness?

Because it can start to be downright patronizing after a while. Only a handful of women are crazy enough to actually be offended by words like “outmanned” or “mankind”. But the rest have to feel like they are getting patted on the head for something they don’t even give 2 craps about, like it’s some sort of victory.

It’s like someone bringing up a valid point, and then other people blowing the point so out of proportion thakittens silliness overshadows the valid complaint entirely.

Instead of an outnumbered buff at all they should have Asura posted at the exits to the spawn area that say “You really don’t want to go out there right now.”

VOLKON.1290:

Instead of an outnumbered buff at all they should have Asura posted at the exits to the spawn area that say “You really don’t want to go out there right now.”

But would they be male or female asura?

In light of some of the more common complaints about WvW, perhaps for now it should say “out-zerged”

You’re crying about nothing OP, please don’t waste people’s time by causing trouble.

The new word makes much more sense.

Watch out, OP! We’ve got people breaking out the dictionary definitions! Shiz just got super serious!

Outmanned and outnumbered are synonyms.

Yes, it has been changed because of the reason you mentioned, OP.

Neural.1824:

In light of some of the more common complaints about WvW, perhaps for now it should say “out-zerged”

Out-zerged it is then!

I like the change

It never even occured to me that this could be seen as a political correctness thing.

I just assumed it was to clarify when you got the buff. Outmanned can be interpreted a lot of different ways (although I suspect it has it’s origins in exactly this situation, just in real life battles). In particular it can mean you’re scared or panicked, or simply that your opponent is better than you.

Outnumbered is much clearer and saves people having to look up why they’ve got it.

(Although I’d also be in favour of renaming it the ‘kittened’ buff, especially if it actually said kitten and not whatever was censored to make it say that.)

I suppose there’s not official word “zerg” in your dictionary, is there?

It’s a term of another game … maybe wrong to use it due to … politeness ?

Anyone else found themselves reading this and going “Yep. This change is totally worth complaining about.” in their most sarcastic inner voice?

Personally I have a problem with PC when it actually affects anything, like censorship… But you know… fight the power… ! I guess.

The asura were gonna sue, so….

No this is not overly sensitive political correctedness.

It was an easy fix. Even if it was for PC reasons, the change was easy. An over the top reaction would be removing the buff, or something else which either a) takes a lot of dev time or b) has an impact on gameplay. This was neither.

I am sure it took ANet less time to change the name than it did for them to read this thread.

Esplen.3940:

Well, we are playing Sylvari, Norn, Asura and Charr who are not a part of mankind.

outnorned?

but yeah, Americans don’t have real problems so they are making them up

pullnointer.1476:

because there is an underlying assumption that there’s someone being discriminated against here.

That’s a big stretch. Discrimination is a serious thing.

If you’re personally going to interpret “We didn’t word this as well as we could have” as “Whoa discrimination!” – well, that’s not really on ANet, that’s your own choice to view this in an exaggerated manner.

When you read things into it that weren’t said, you can’t expect everyone else to buy into your extreme interpretation and avoid things they would otherwise do to accommodate your assumption.

I think the new wording is better. Calling the old wording discrimination frankly strikes me as pretty silly nonetheless.

it’s because gary roberts got a copy of the game, and EVERYONE was outmanned:

I would add that, gender issues aside, personally at a glance I would read “outmanned” as “overpowered” rather than “outnumbered” – and the dictionary definitions would suggest that interpretation is equally plausible.

So yeah, the new wording is just flat out clearer too. If the intention that you’re outnumbered, it makes more sense to just say that rather than using a more ambiguous wording.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

pullnointer.1476:

because there is an underlying assumption that there’s someone being discriminated against here.

That’s a big stretch. Discrimination is a serious thing.

If you’re personally going to interpret “We didn’t word this as well as we could have” as “Whoa discrimination!” – well, that’s not really on ANet, that’s your own choice to view this in an exaggerated manner.

When you read things into it that weren’t said, you can’t expect everyone else to buy into your extreme interpretation and avoid things they would otherwise do to accommodate your assumption.

I think the new wording is better. Calling the old wording discrimination frankly strikes me as pretty silly nonetheless.

you completely misunderstood my point

Perhaps Anet could introduce border where all men can go to be outwomaned…

On serious note, “outmanned” is term very often used in warfare so im puzzled why change it to something more self-explainatory.

Seriously? Someone might be offended by the word?

I doubt it was changed for that reason. More likely that Anet decided use of the more common word ‘outnumbered’ made more sense.

Outnumbered is a bit more clear. You get the buff when the enemy has more numbers. Outmanned can mean more than just that.

pullnointer.1476:

marnick.4305:

As a man I object to the removal of my male supremacy. All women are sexist for not acknowledging men are the superior sexe.

/sarcasm.

yes because women used to go to wars and hunt for food in prehistoric times.

/throws chum to the sharks
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/featured-article/2013/05/we-have-always-fought-challenging-the-women-cattle-and-slaves-narrative-by-kameron-hurley/

OP, yes, this change was so ‘important’ that they waited 11 months to change a tooltip and did so without any comment or fanfare. Who is being thin-skinned and oversensitive in this conversation: your hypothetical pearl-clutching strawfeminist, or you?

I notice that the word ‘sidekicked’ in the daily has been changed to ’mentored ’too.

No doubt there’s some deep and significant political purpose behind it.
If anybody needs me I’ll be in the cupboard under the stairs wearing my tinfoil hat.

Siphaed.9235:

I know as of late there have been states that have changed their constitutions, to even the US Government changing many law bills so that words with “man” in them are changed around.

Good luck to them to try to fix the word ‘woman’ then

I wonder where that word came from. Women are people who woo men? xD

zerospin.8604:

Siphaed.9235:

I know as of late there have been states that have changed their constitutions, to even the US Government changing many law bills so that words with “man” in them are changed around.

Good luck to them to try to fix the word ‘woman’ then

I wonder where that word came from. Women are people who woo men? xD

There is a political correct word for woman, it’s womyn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womyn
I like the womban one. It sounds the most kittened.

Also there you can find explanation about the origin of the words “man” and “woman”, and why so many words contain the word “man” :
In Old English sources, the word “man” was gender-neutral, with a meaning similar to the modern English usage of “one” as an indefinite pronoun. The words wer and wyf were used to specify a man or woman where necessary, respectively. Combining them into wer-man or wyf-man expressed the concept of “any man” or “any woman.” Over time, wer-man was simplified to man while wyf-man developed into woman.³⁴ Feminist writers have suggested that the less prejudicial usage of the Old English sources reflects more egalitarian notions of gender at the time.