Guild Wars 2

Martin The Brave.8731:

Lafiel.9372:

That’s pretty much the last straw for most players if they increase the level cap.

Why would it be? They never stated that they weren’t going to increase the level cap. They in fact stated it multiple times that would increase it and also add new tiers of gear. This isn’t Guildwars 1 and it was never intended to be, People enjoyed the game from 1-80 right? What’s stopping them from enjoying it 80-90?

Look at how far WoW’s come and look at how unbelievably ridiculous those numbers now are? It’s ridiculous. Noone wants to worry about stats anymore. Statistical increases are simply a way to keep players playing but it’s truthfully not needed.

I’ll give you an example of why noone wants more levels and it doesn’t even have anything to do with power creep.

Take the frost brood mount in WoW. You get that out of Icecrown citadel. Well that was two Xpacs ago. Noone goes there because it’s “old” content. Noone wants to do it anymore because it’s not beneficial whatsover to them.

Sure now you can go in solo but who really wants to solo a raid?

There’s no need for a higher level in GW2.

I want to progress my toon by achieving higher levels of PRESTIGE through armor, weapons, titles and so on.

There are far better and far more enriching paths to progression than going from +10 to +20.

Not to mention class balancing would no longer be an issue. Once they’ve reached a balance that they and the player base can agree on, that’s it. It’s done. No more numbers.

There’s so much more potential for simple customization that would EASILY take the place of normal numbered progression………it’s just stupid to raise the level cap.

NO to a level cap increase.

- New lands of varying levels so people of different level ranges can have new things to see and do, there’s a down scale system in place anyway.

- Varying PvP maps and modes.

- Titles, mini games, fishing and non-combat activities, guild halls and battles, some kind of observer mode for the various instanced pvp matches like the original GW.

-new skins (so sick of trechcoats) and tell me why as an Asura I can’ commission a Norn to whip me up something with a Norm flare? It can be different from the Norn cultural armor (so that is still special) but it still has a Norn signature look.

There are a bunch of stuff you can add, fresh content doesn’t have to have bigger numbers attached, that’s cheap and lazy especially for a game that says it’s straying from tradition.

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

Oreoz.2573:

No. Don’t want it. Don’t need it.

There’s no need whatsover to increase our power. People are used to ascended gear by now and things will even out again once Anet rolls it out in full.

To raise the bar again is just……no.

Progression does NOT mean we need to get more powerful.

This game and any mmo for that matter would be so much better if progression was achieved through the exploration of new content and the acquisition of new gear. Imagine what a breath of fresh air it would be if the devs weren’t bound by the worry of how something is going to be handled statistically and instead devoted all their time to simply making the world better, to putting more in it?

Progression through aesthetics, NOT through stupid numbers.

You asume that you actually get more powerfull from leveling which in this game is not the case do to the. Gear and skills are the only thing that actualy make you stonger.

Levels are nothing more than a form of control (much like the liener game desine of gw1 was a form of control). It dosnt make you stronger but it dose dictate the order in which you get the gear and the order in which you consume new content.

It would be stupid if at day one players could just skip content grab all the best gear and move to Orr.

Thats why the gear stats are so slight and why buffs on food (and much of the gear) are based on % and not straght number values.

Things like the live story are controled by relising it slowly overtime. That wont happen with an expack and thay will again need to use levels so people just dont rush to the end with all the grate new drops and such

Oreoz.2573:

Martin The Brave.8731:

Lafiel.9372:

That’s pretty much the last straw for most players if they increase the level cap.

Why would it be? They never stated that they weren’t going to increase the level cap. They in fact stated it multiple times that would increase it and also add new tiers of gear. This isn’t Guildwars 1 and it was never intended to be, People enjoyed the game from 1-80 right? What’s stopping them from enjoying it 80-90?

Look at how far WoW’s come and look at how unbelievably ridiculous those numbers now are? It’s ridiculous. Noone wants to worry about stats anymore. Statistical increases are simply a way to keep players playing but it’s truthfully not needed.

I’ll give you an example of why noone wants more levels and it doesn’t even have anything to do with power creep.

Take the frost brood mount in WoW. You get that out of Icecrown citadel. Well that was two Xpacs ago. Noone goes there because it’s “old” content. Noone wants to do it anymore because it’s not beneficial whatsover to them.

Sure now you can go in solo but who really wants to solo a raid?

There’s no need for a higher level in GW2.

I want to progress my toon by achieving higher levels of PRESTIGE through armor, weapons, titles and so on.

There are far better and far more enriching paths to progression than going from +10 to +20.

Guildwars 2 =/= World of Warcraft, The way that blizzard develops content for players is not the same as Arenanet. Just because a certain situation happened in one game doesn’t mean it will repeat in this one. This game will never be about “Stats” even if they implement new tiers as they will have a minimal effect in progression. You guy’s are just setting yourselves up for disappointment Arenanet want’s level and gear progression to an extent.

YES. because it will give me more trait points so it will be more cool to have all the traits. but i mean only levels, because if they raise items level too, so many people is going to rage.

Oreoz.2573:

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

plenty of people bought it and played it would beet the capain and the go (myself included)

Because unlike what this game will do were thay will just keep adding to the world GW1 “expantions” were basicly a new game each time. Were much like the mass effect or bulders gate games you could transfer over your old charater into this new story

GOD NO! I’d hate to see the level cap keep going up, in fact, I’d go back to GW1 if that happened.

Added note i think its relevant to this topic:
They are going back and making level down system more effect at putting you on the same level as low level once your back in that zone so if they do efficiently pull this off with WvW (80 as cap) and other level 80 zones i can see them adding in higher level with out destroying the build in effects.

Oreoz.2573:

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

Well Guildwars 1 did have stagnant progression, the level cap was the same from release. And I think Guildwars 2 is their most successful title.

NO. Even when they will add new content, all they have to do is make it 80 and that’s it.

Martin The Brave.8731:

Oreoz.2573:

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

Well Guildwars 1 did have stagnant progression, the level cap was the same from release. And I think Guildwars 2 is their most successful title.

well it’s a matter of opinion but it did sell over 7 mill copies and help fund development of this game which has sold 3 million so far. The stagnation could not have been that bad.

There are going to be so many disappointed people in this thread.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Oreoz.2573:

No. Don’t want it. Don’t need it.

There’s no need whatsover to increase our power. People are used to ascended gear by now and things will even out again once Anet rolls it out in full.

To raise the bar again is just……no.

Progression does NOT mean we need to get more powerful.

This game and any mmo for that matter would be so much better if progression was achieved through the exploration of new content and the acquisition of new gear. Imagine what a breath of fresh air it would be if the devs weren’t bound by the worry of how something is going to be handled statistically and instead devoted all their time to simply making the world better, to putting more in it?

Progression through aesthetics, NOT through stupid numbers.

You asume that you actually get more powerfull from leveling which in this game is not the case do to the. Gear and skills are the only thing that actualy make you stonger.

Gear doesn’t, just skill.

3 months ago, players in full exotics had the best armor in the game, and the highest content in the game was designed around that. As Ascended gear rolls out, that armor becomes the best in the game and the new content is designed around that. In the end, your character in relation to whatever the “current” strongest monsters happen to be hasn’t changed one bit. You are still equally matched, in regards to the monster and assuming you have all the best current armor, as you were when you were in exotics.

When it comes to gear, you don’t progress forward. You either run at max speed to remain in the same place you were months ago, or slow down and get left behind.

Oreoz.2573:

Martin The Brave.8731:

Oreoz.2573:

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

Well Guildwars 1 did have stagnant progression, the level cap was the same from release. And I think Guildwars 2 is their most successful title.

well it’s a matter of opinion but it did sell over 7 mill copies and help fund development of this game which has sold 3 million so far. The stagnation could not have been that bad.

I would need the actual quote from Chris.W to discuss any further, but if he did say it then it must have had a good reason to say it.

Level Cap – No
Vertical Progression – Yes

No.

I came in here expecting to /popcorn and read the massive debate…. Instead it’s a bunch of boring discussion about stuff I agree with…

Side note: I do think having something that tracked how many levels above 80 you’ve attained would be kind of neat, but really not sure it’s worth the time it would take to program (yes I know it would be very little, my point stands).

Martin The Brave.8731:

Oreoz.2573:

Martin The Brave.8731:

Oreoz.2573:

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

Well Guildwars 1 did have stagnant progression, the level cap was the same from release. And I think Guildwars 2 is their most successful title.

well it’s a matter of opinion but it did sell over 7 mill copies and help fund development of this game which has sold 3 million so far. The stagnation could not have been that bad.

I would need the actual quote from Chris.W to discuss any further, but if he did say it then it must have had a good reason to say it.

It was in the most recent AMA on reddit, the one where everyone bombarded him with ascended inquiries. lol

Developers will say whatever sounds reasonable to justify decisions they may make but the proof is in the pudding that whether or not it was because it stopped at level 20, GW1 sold and made them rich.

It was Mike O’Brien in an AMA on reddit that said the line about GW1 being stagnant.

Only for those that believe levels and gear are the only forms of progression did it seem stagnant. This is a very narrow minded view in my opinion.

Increasing levelcap is meaningless and lazy design it only widens a gap that should never have existed to begin with. Bigger numbers does not make for better gameplay.

NO.

No to raising level cap.

Yes to more lvl 80 maps without risens.

Yes to more skills and traits.

Oreoz.2573:

Martin The Brave.8731:

Oreoz.2573:

Martin The Brave.8731:

Oreoz.2573:

Christ Whiteside (i think it was) said that GW1 was stagnate in it’s limited progression.

How can he possibly say that when the success of that game allowed them to develop this one? How stagnate could it possibly have been when it was Anet’s most successful title?

Well Guildwars 1 did have stagnant progression, the level cap was the same from release. And I think Guildwars 2 is their most successful title.

well it’s a matter of opinion but it did sell over 7 mill copies and help fund development of this game which has sold 3 million so far. The stagnation could not have been that bad.

I would need the actual quote from Chris.W to discuss any further, but if he did say it then it must have had a good reason to say it.

It was in the most recent AMA on reddit, the one where everyone bombarded him with ascended inquiries. lol

Developers will say whatever sounds reasonable to justify decisions they may make but the proof is in the pudding that whether or not it was because it stopped at level 20, GW1 sold and made them rich.

I don’t think it made them “Rich”, Guildwars 1 probably sold more on the notion that the game was Buy 2 Play rather than their not being level progression. But even then, Guildwars 1 hasnt always had a large and active player base. So what if Guildwars 1 was a good game? They shouldn’t design the game around every concept that came from it. And if they felt that they game was “Stagnant” well so be it, they are the Developers if they felt it was stagnant then it was stagnant. There is really no point in complaining, this game has been designed with level progression in mind.

Conner.4702:

It was Mike O’Brien in an AMA on reddit that said the line about GW1 being stagnant.

Only for those that believe levels and gear are the only forms of progression did it seem stagnant. This is a very narrow minded view in my opinion.

Increasing levelcap is meaningless and lazy design it only widens a gap that should never have existed to begin with. Bigger numbers does not make for better gameplay.

As i have already said. Its kinda a big deal that GW1 was NOT open world. Unlike gw2 you could not move to the next part of the world unless you beet the one befor it.

If thay add all of cantha in an expac with a story not haveing levels would be a problem.

No. Don’t even think about it.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Conner.4702:

It was Mike O’Brien in an AMA on reddit that said the line about GW1 being stagnant.

Only for those that believe levels and gear are the only forms of progression did it seem stagnant. This is a very narrow minded view in my opinion.

Increasing levelcap is meaningless and lazy design it only widens a gap that should never have existed to begin with. Bigger numbers does not make for better gameplay.

As i have already said. Its kinda a big deal that GW1 was NOT open world. Unlike gw2 you could not move to the next part of the world unless you beet the one befor it.

If thay add all of cantha in an expac with a story not haveing levels would be a problem.

WHY would it be a problem? Why do the areas have to follow such a linear path that it requires gating to go from point A to point B? Why can’t I just run around the zone helping people, while following a linear story that sends me from one town to the next. The way the story instances you, it would be no problem at all for me to go back to a zone I’ve already completed in order to do my storyline quests. In fact, I had to do just that in the regular GW2 story because one of my quests was broken (a level 45 one) until after I hit level 80. That worked out just fine.

I don’t see any valid or sensible reason why levels are NECESSARY. Desired by some folks? Of course, everyone’s tastes are different. But masking that desire as a need when it clearly is not won’t do anyone any good.

No on levels.

But if you want to give me say, ten more extra trait points, I’m okay with that.

Tolmos.8395:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Conner.4702:

It was Mike O’Brien in an AMA on reddit that said the line about GW1 being stagnant.

Only for those that believe levels and gear are the only forms of progression did it seem stagnant. This is a very narrow minded view in my opinion.

Increasing levelcap is meaningless and lazy design it only widens a gap that should never have existed to begin with. Bigger numbers does not make for better gameplay.

As i have already said. Its kinda a big deal that GW1 was NOT open world. Unlike gw2 you could not move to the next part of the world unless you beet the one befor it.

If thay add all of cantha in an expac with a story not haveing levels would be a problem.

WHY would it be a problem? Why do the areas have to follow such a linear path that it requires gating to go from point A to point B? Why can’t I just run around the zone helping people, while following a linear story that sends me from one town to the next. The way the story instances you, it would be no problem at all for me to go back to a zone I’ve already completed in order to do my storyline quests. In fact, I had to do just that in the regular GW2 story because one of my quests was broken (a level 45 one) until after I hit level 80. That worked out just fine.

I don’t see any valid or sensible reason why levels are NECESSARY. Desired by some folks? Of course, everyone’s tastes are different. But masking that desire as a need when it clearly is not won’t do anyone any good.

I dont see any valid or sensible reason not to have them. New gear tears, we already knowfor a fact there comeing. Time? Please 10 levels is nothing with this flat level curve. With the use of scaleing old content is still relavent as you yourself pointed out as you outleved your story do to a bug. (More so with the updates to scalling systam)

So how would haveing it negative effect you.

(Also if there is new content mechanics it offers a good way to introduce them by gateing the content this way. Instead of them rushing to the end and getting mad because thay dont know what the Kitten there doing wrong.)

This is the first game I could even deal with in a long time that even had levels/classes. I usually can’t even play an MMO with those restrictions due to the fact that I started on games like Ultima Online and Asheron’s Call.

So far I love this game, if they start adding more levels that is pretty much an instant deal breaker for me. So far they have managed to walk a very fine line that makes this game enjoyable – even to someone who typically hates mmo’s with level/class restrictions.

For whatever god forsaken reason level grinding is the popular thing in MMO’s released since Asheron’s Call (in general) and the thought of them doing that to this game is terrible.

If it isn’t clear my vote is please please please NO.

There won’t be any level increases until we have all Ascended gear out (and a reasonable amount of people wearing full Ascended) that will take a lot of time imo so we can discuss this again later…. It doesn’t make any sense to release some Ascended parts that aren’t level 80 and some that are 80.

Anyway on the topic at hand, I believe that the dynamic level adjustment makes adding more levels a no problem. I don’t see any issues with it and can’t see any serious arguments so far against it, other that the “it can be done without increasing the levels”, which is of course true, but even if they did add new levels how much of a difference would it make?

Also it adds insentive to move through the story the way the devs intended as story gives you alot of exp

As long there will be not smth like ‘outdated Content’(→ need good sidekick and rewarding low level zones) and no Gear & Level Grind for max Stats, then I don’t mind. Although it gets more likely to get screwed up with a stat increase…

maddoctor.2738:

There won’t be any level increases until we have all Ascended gear out (and a reasonable amount of people wearing full Ascended) that will take a lot of time imo so we can discuss this again later…. It doesn’t make any sense to release some Ascended parts that aren’t level 80 and some that are 80.

Anyway on the topic at hand, I believe that the dynamic level adjustment makes adding more levels a no problem. I don’t see any issues with it and can’t see any serious arguments so far against it, other that the “it can be done without increasing the levels”, which is of course true, but even if they did add new levels how much of a difference would it make?

Exactly

Im not a big fan of leveling but in this game its so much a none ishue

CeNedro.7560:

As long there will be not smth like ‘outdated Content’(-> need good sidekick and rewarding low level zones) and no Gear & Level Grind for max Stats, then I don’t mind. Although it gets more likely to get screwed up with a stat increase…

Given how laurels work (everywhere, no matter the level) they CAN keep old content relevant no matter how many levels they add.

I played the game for a couple of months. Leveled two toons to 80 and quit. Then I deleted all my toons (gave all my stuff to someone first) so there’s nothing left to steal and because if I ever wanted to play this game again, it should be from start again for me. I didn’t like my toons as they were.

Why bring this up here? Well, because it puts me in a different situation. I now am more in the situation of a new player who still has to create hist first character to level to 80 but I have played enough to have an idea what’s waiting for me if I would start playing again (Don’t know if I will but you never know).

And when I sit and think of leveling another toon to 80 all over again and then think they will add more levels (as they said they would), I have no wish to play again even just from that point of view.

The 80 levels are too long and spread out over too many zones. It got boring after level 30-40ish. The character progression after level 30 is as flat as a pancake. There is nothing to look forward to except trait points. If level 30 had been max level, you would have all your skill slots unlocked and you keep gaining skill points afterwards anyways. Give people more trait points per level on the way to 30 and that easily fixes that. Point is after level 30, leveling is boring, the zones get repetitive and on top of that the story line goes completely south.

Why in the world would I want to do that again and then even more levels after 80? Honestly the leveling zones should’ve been divided more equally between races and they shouldn’t overlap and level ranges per zone should go up, giving more replay value as well as a less fragmented population in the world zones and more to do in each zone so you might actually spend a little more time there instead of rushing on. It might encourage more people to do stuff together anyways.

So, I know they are going to do it but I think it’s a bad idea in the current state of the leveling zones. They need to improve the leveling experience or it’s going to feel even more daunting and boring to get to max level. Not because of difficulty but boredom.

maddoctor.2738:

CeNedro.7560:

As long there will be not smth like ‘outdated Content’(-> need good sidekick and rewarding low level zones) and no Gear & Level Grind for max Stats, then I don’t mind. Although it gets more likely to get screwed up with a stat increase…

Given how laurels work (everywhere, no matter the level) they CAN keep old content relevant no matter how many levels they add.

I could go complete my daily in Queensdale, but why would I? It’s best to just complete them where ever you happen to be going normally, unless you need more kill variety (Orr lacks variety), a zone with underwater combat, etc.

NO.

80 levels is ridiculous.

GW1 was epic fun for YEARS with only 20 levels.

More good content – less levelling and gear grinding.

No.

Levels are just an arbitrary bunch of numbers to say “you can’t go here yet”
I would much rather have them focus on non arbitrary things, like dungeons, more classes, more zones, or other things that can actually improve outside arbitrary numbers.

No. Not ever.

No!!!

I disliked leveling after 30. There’s no reason point other then a number going up and maybe getting a few traits.

No. What would the game gain from increasing the level cap?

Fiontar.4695:

What are the perceived negatives of raising the level cap? If scaling can accommodate level scale increases, I guess people are then worried about having to reacquire max stat gear. For the most part, the stat side of exotic gear isn’t that hard to obtain. The gear that requires the most cost or effort to acquire usually doesn’t offer a stat advantage over cheaper exotics, it’s all about the looks and those looks can easily be transferred.

Top tier is now ascendant, not exotic – yes, they aren’t all out yet, but ANet is not going to raise level cap until we get full ascendant set in the game anyway.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

maddoctor.2738:

There won’t be any level increases until we have all Ascended gear out (and a reasonable amount of people wearing full Ascended) that will take a lot of time imo so we can discuss this again later…. It doesn’t make any sense to release some Ascended parts that aren’t level 80 and some that are 80.

Anyway on the topic at hand, I believe that the dynamic level adjustment makes adding more levels a no problem. I don’t see any issues with it and can’t see any serious arguments so far against it, other that the “it can be done without increasing the levels”, which is of course true, but even if they did add new levels how much of a difference would it make?

Exactly

Im not a big fan of leveling but in this game its so much a none ishue

Levelling itself is not a big issue (except for it not really adding anything to game). Reacquiring gear is.

Yes, of course.

And of course it will be.

To those who don’t like leveling, why do you play MMOs? Why did you play Guild Wars 2 in the first place? The very FIRST TASTE of progression you get is hitting level 2. What makes you think that they will shut off this channel of progression forever? Makes no sense.

guardian.6489:

No!!!

I disliked leveling after 30. There’s no reason point other then a number going up and maybe getting a few traits.

Then why not put a piece of tape over your screen where the level is? If there was no reason or point, then why would you care what your level is?

No! If they did, it would be the last straw!

Levels already are sort of pointless, they’re just for gating. If there were better scaling, we wouldn’t need levels in this game at all.

Zeldain.5710:

To those who don’t like leveling, why do you play MMOs? Why did you play Guild Wars 2 in the first place?

Because i liked GW1, and the devs promised me that everything i liked in GW1 will be in GW2?

Yeah, i know, they didn’t really keep that promise, but i can still hope.

Astralporing.1957:

Zeldain.5710:

To those who don’t like leveling, why do you play MMOs? Why did you play Guild Wars 2 in the first place?

Because i liked GW1, and the devs promised me that everything i liked in GW1 will be in GW2?

Yeah, i know, they didn’t really keep that promise, but i can still hope.

I don’t think they ever said anything of the sort. It should have been clear the moment that there were 80 levels announced that the game was going to be very different in terms of character progression.

NO

Because more levels = more trait points and as long as they don’t fix/balance all classes they should’t add anything to the metagame.

And more levels =/= more fun (look at WoW)

Zeldain.5710:

Astralporing.1957:

Zeldain.5710:

To those who don’t like leveling, why do you play MMOs? Why did you play Guild Wars 2 in the first place?

Because i liked GW1, and the devs promised me that everything i liked in GW1 will be in GW2?

Yeah, i know, they didn’t really keep that promise, but i can still hope.

I don’t think they ever said anything of the sort. It should have been clear the moment that there were 80 levels announced that the game was going to be very different in terms of character progression.

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that’s got more active combat, a fully-branching, personalized storyline, a new event system to get people playing together, and still no monthly fees.
Mike O’Brian, GW2 manifesto.

Astralporing.1957:

]Because i liked GW1, and the devs promised me that everything i liked in GW1 will be in GW2?

Yeah, i know, they didn’t really keep that promise, but i can still hope.

Yea I had a lot of hope until Nov 15th. Now I have very, very little. With each update, I keep realizing that they’re probably going to just keep going in the same direction they’ve chosen since Nov 15th.

Basically, they’ve lost me as a player. I’m just here until the next thing comes out. If they actually came out and said they were going get off this grindy, tiered, just-like-every-other-crappy-mmo path that they’ve put themselves on, I’d stick around. If that doesn’t happen before the next thing comes out…good bye Guild Wars 2 and ArenaNet.

But they won’t. They don’t communicate if they don’t have to.

I loved Guild Wars – thanks for the thousands of hours and years of fun. That was an epic game. I guess I got my 60 bucks worth out of Guild Wars 2. It’s time to move on.

No.

for one, Anet seems utterly unable to balance the classes and traits as they are.
Raising the cap will set these efforts back even further.

There is absolutely no need to rise level cap, nor was there ever need to add ascended gear or add more levels to it.

Pity they already announced they will do both anyway.