Guild Wars 2

I’m at a loss here…
Why is PVE not separated from PVP like in Guild Wars 1?? The thief nerfs are completely unjustified from a PVE standpoint.
I am a high end skill player and can do some great things for my party, but its laughable how much effort it takes for me to do what a warrior can do just by smashing his face against the keyboard repeatedly. Do all A-Net employees play Warrior??? I hate to single out a class, but that’s the one that’s the most laughable in my opinion.

When I play games like this I have 1 main character and that’s it. I don’t have time to build up 3-4 characters, I liked thief as a play style and that’s what I want to play.

I had high hopes for this game and enjoyed it thoroughly when it came out. I wanna get back to that level of fun.
What happened to all those promises you made?
Where is the build diversity ? Where is that choice to play any style I want to play and be effective. Not to mention, the fact that you have to craft now to get the highest tier weapons. I hate crafting.. it’s boring, and you promised I wouldn’t have to do boring things like that. Yet here we go again.

So please do something and bring back all those weaker classes (not just thief) up to the standards of the stronger classes in PVE.

Thay also play Autoattack Pistol Pistol thief with no traits and no swap.

i never get in dungeon group that has 2 thief in it(LOL)particularly if that dungeon is arah.
i agree with u pve need some love,so far most of the anet balance patch were about pvp
and they still need to do something about pve.its common to see people are asking for guard or warrior (some ask for mesmer too)because of the group with heavy class can run the dungeon a lot faster and easier in compare with group of thief and engi or even ranger.
its shows the serious balance issue in pve and anet must fix it.

I just gave up trying to play Ranger and succumbed to ANET’s obvious preference for Warrior and used one.

Yea, I played thief from day 1, and my best friend played ranger. We don’t play anymore, obviously. We sure picked the short straw on this one.

I guess I just don’t get why ANET caters to just the PVP population. I know they whine the most, but is the PVP population really that much greater than the PVE people?

Anet promised us we could play however we wanted. I want to go healway thief with only a mainhand pistol and out-DPS everyone else, but I can’t. Anet has broken its promise and my heart for the last time. Q.Q

Elm.8169:

Anet promised us we could play however we wanted. I want to go healway thief with only a mainhand pistol and out-DPS everyone else, but I can’t. Anet has broken its promise and my heart for the last time. Q.Q

Cool story bro.
Tell me again how much PVE you play with thief.

PVE needs to be balanced in General. I don’t mean to single out one class like I said, it’s just what I have the most experience with.

Seperate PVE from WvW, and balance the classes already. Simply stated.

Sparrow.5936:

Elm.8169:

Anet promised us we could play however we wanted. I want to go healway thief with only a mainhand pistol and out-DPS everyone else, but I can’t. Anet has broken its promise and my heart for the last time. Q.Q

Cool story bro.
Tell me again how much PVE you play with thief.

PVE needs to be balanced in General. I don’t mean to single out one class like I said, it’s just what I have the most experience with.

Seperate PVE from WvW, and balance the classes already. Simply stated.

My advice? Don’t waste your time.

While I like the thief class concept, the execution was poor. Why bother when a warrior can do everything better? They’ve had over a year and class balance is still atrocious.

I’m a Dungeon Master. I’ve beaten every dungeon path with every class in the game, rangers and thieves included.

I think “learn to play” fits here pretty well.

I think the game is easy enough you really can play with any class.

but that dont’ stop the fact warrior is a much “easier” class to play.

On a bright side, at least thief is a good harvester. I know I purposely made a few thief for harvesting.

Usually when I join a pug and see a warrior I’ll be happy because in my mind I’ll tell myself any dufus can play a warrior. I can’t say the same thing about thief, eventhough I seen some pretty good thief before.

Stark.1350:

I’m a Dungeon Master. I’ve beaten every dungeon path with every class in the game, rangers and thieves included.

I think “learn to play” fits here pretty well.

“learn to reading comprehension”

If you don’t want to roll a heavy armor class then just accept you will need to put in significantly more effort for only ~70% the efficiency. Once you accept this you will be much happier.

Anet will never change this. I mean look it’s been almost 1.5 years and they are still trying to pretend this game is some sort of esport. If they can’t even figure that out then the chances of class balance are slim to none.

Stark.1350:

I’m a Dungeon Master. I’ve beaten every dungeon path with every class in the game, rangers and thieves included.

I think “learn to play” fits here pretty well.

dont talk like ur the only one who has done dungeon here and the rest are noobs.i am dungeon master too, not just done it all,i am doing a lot of dungeons include arah almost every day and i did it on both my ranger and my warrior ,i also done arah p4 with my ranger before the nerf patch,so i know what i am talking about.
“u learn to read properly”people said include op that they have played a lot of pve content and based on their experience with heavy armor class and classes like thief they say pve need balance.

To be honest, I’m confused. We were fine. Our mechanics were running smooth, but people didn’t like stealth. They thought perma stealth was op, and it was, so they nerf that, and a ton of other aspects for no reason. This is the part I’m confused about, why does EVERYBODY have access to what they so avidly hated. Mesmers got stealth, okay, a 3 sec stealth for confusion makes sense. Then ranger gets stealth. Um, why? Oh wait. The Mesmers stealth now has no limit to their stealth. Why doesn’t SR have that? Then, stealth gets nerfed. Why? Nothing was wrong. Next thing I see, warriors are disappearing into thin air. I’ve even heard of a way necros can use wells to get stealth. WHY IS EVERYONE A THIEF?! It’s turned us into a lesser form of a warrior or necro. It’s just frustrating.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Thay also play Autoattack Pistol Pistol thief with no traits and no swap.

Sad thing is this is true. XD Watching that was painful.

We have a very valuable role in PVE though. We exist to stealth revive downed Warriors when they forget to look at their screen for too long when they’re beating on everything.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Thay also play Autoattack Pistol Pistol thief with no traits and no swap.

Woah woah woah! There were numerous threes thrown in there as well! Make sure you give full and fair assessments!

Thief is a higher skill cap profession. You can be really effective with a thief in PvE, especially with niche things like stealth, perma blind, interrupt spamming and venom sharing. A thief can bust out some crazy numbers with Pistol Whip, Heartseeker or shortbow spamming. It’s hard. They aren’t less effective than warriors, it’s just harder.

PLEASE STOP WITH THIS SPLIT NONSENSE.

omg. seriously. the nerfs that occured are unwarranted here in spvp/tpvp/wvw as well.

know both sides before making such comments. ty

Thief is still viable in every game mode, but it gets harder to play with every patch.

Even the tiny things like: “now you thiefs can’t dodge roll after infiltrators arrow anymore” and “lets lower the amount of dodges a thief can use”

I don’t get what everone’s problem is. Thief is more than balanced and on the edge of OP in pve. The only classes that can be considered OP are ele for offensive buffs and fgs and guardian for the ridiculous amount of reflects. And more importantly, how can any of you think warrior is OP? They have great offensive buffs and amazing survivability but you have to give up so much damage. If your playing thief right then you should easily be doubling a warriors damage. Its all about trade-offs, damage vs. survivability.

Yea I dont see the PVE complaints at all. I actually stopped playing my thief in PVE a logn time ago because its so easy with him. For maps you can literally use S/P 5,1 on everything, even things 20 levels higher than you and win.

I just broke out my thief again recently because im making Bolt and dont know if I want to give it to ym Mesmer. For dungeons pistol whip owns everything. I run S/P D/D dont even bother using my shortbow and im just dandy. Ranger is the only class I can see complaining about PVE because their mechanics are warped.

I DEF find Zerker Thief way easier to play than Zerker guard, though my guard does out damage my thief slightly

@Clumsy, Azure and all the others who insist that thief is OP in PvE:

Here’s a suggestion: Go to Lions Arch on your server at a busy time and try and count all the various classes around the bank, the crafting stations, the mystic fountain, and the trading post. I just did this in TC – one of the more populous servers – and found about 5 thieves. What I found mostly instead were a lot of were the real OP classes: Guardians and Warriors. They were followed by Elementalists and Rangers (in a reasonably close tie), than Necromancers and Engineers. If thieves are so OP in PvE there ought to be tons of them – right? Better yet, go to an event – any world event and do the same survey. Do it enough times and you get the same result pretty consistently. What is it that all those players don’t know about how wonderfully OP the thief class is? Maybe you should share that knowledge with them – spread the gospel. I’m sure it will be well received once they all understand. After that it will be thieves EVERYWHERE!

Oh and just for the heck of it: while your at it just to prove the thief’s PvE OPness try the Inquest Golem event Mount Maelstrom (I hope you about a 10 ms ping and no noticeable lag. Have fun!.

Anet needs to redesign stealth completely. the ability to steath during combat is a terrible design principle and it causes infinite rage in wvw. I am tired of being spam emoted, etc because players rightfully hate how stealth was done in this game. If you want anything to be improved for thieves, plead with anet to overhaul stealth. It’s a broken mechanice that allows abuse and encourages hatred for our class. With balanced stealth, other improvements can be made to make this class more enjoyable.

Sanduskel.1850:

Anet needs to redesign stealth completely. the ability to steath during combat is a terrible design principle and it causes infinite rage in wvw. I am tired of being spam emoted, etc because players rightfully hate how stealth was done in this game. If you want anything to be improved for thieves, plead with anet to overhaul stealth. It’s a broken mechanice that allows abuse and encourages hatred for our class. With balanced stealth, other improvements can be made to make this class more enjoyable.

You should probably stop playing this class, then. It’s unlikely that Anet will redesign the core mechanic from the ground up to please you.

That’s a hypothetical — I don’t think there are three people in this forum who believe your main is a thief. I say “three” because I’ll give you your own vote and Burnfall’s.

Arrow.4619:

@Clumsy, Azure and all the others who insist that thief is OP in PvE:

Here’s a suggestion: Go to Lions Arch on your server at a busy time and try and count all the various classes around the bank, the crafting stations, the mystic fountain, and the trading post. I just did this in TC – one of the more populous servers – and found about 5 thieves. What I found mostly instead were a lot of were the real OP classes: Guardians and Warriors. They were followed by Elementalists and Rangers (in a reasonably close tie), than Necromancers and Engineers. If thieves are so OP in PvE there ought to be tons of them – right? Better yet, go to an event – any world event and do the same survey. Do it enough times and you get the same result pretty consistently. What is it that all those players don’t know about how wonderfully OP the thief class is? Maybe you should share that knowledge with them – spread the gospel. I’m sure it will be well received once they all understand. After that it will be thieves EVERYWHERE!

Oh and just for the heck of it: while your at it just to prove the thief’s PvE OPness try the Inquest Golem event Mount Maelstrom (I hope you about a 10 ms ping and no noticeable lag. Have fun!.

ive tried going routes like this in explaining it. they just dont let it sink in. between the trolls and thief haters….it just …. wont sink in. excellent points tho.

heres another… check the LFG status. they actually have “no thieves plz” in the lfg status.

while this will most probably fall yet again on deaf ears,

yes, please, please separate the pve from pvp skillsets
just like they were forced to in gw1, where endgame bosses
and dungeon mechanics don’t scale so well with numbers
balanced against fellow players.
and while yes, anyone can argue that pve here is easy,
(the go for zerk and just dodge the red circles, is for another topic)
it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is balanced as well.

did the dungeon master exclusively on my main, thief, and yet
having 4 more 80’s of other classes that are much less geared,
shows me that the constant updates of nerfs just makes thieves
less and less of a compelling choice.

they already started the split, that’s why its boggling that they
haven’t continued on with it for so long. would rather have
actual pve-pvp skill split and balancing based on representatives
of ALL classes, than the constant annoyance of scarlett updates

Does anyone have any records of highest possible dps for both Warrior and Thief? Because, when it’s said and done, I really don’t feel like my thief does that much less dps than my warrior. In fact, I feel like my Thief has more burst damage than my warrior. Both are in full zerkers, as well.

As for Thief requiring more effort? Meh. That’s opinionated. It doesn’t take too much thinking to spam #3 with S/P. I think my Thief brings great utility to the group via blind field and constant pistol whip stuns. My Warrior brings the banner, which is also great in its own regard, but overall I feel like my thief has a much larger impact. Also, it’s not bad for a class to require more effort to deal damage, as long as said damage is equal to another’s output. Some people enjoy a challenge. Some people don’t, and there are other, easier classes to play if that is what you so desire.

Arrow.4619:

If thieves are so OP in PvE there ought to be tons of them – right?

Absolutely not. The most popular class is always going to be the easiest. After that you have to consider what the majority of the population actually does. In this case the majority likes to run around in open world zergs, a 1200 range-fest.

Arrow.4619:

Better yet, go to an event – any world event and do the same survey. Do it enough times and you get the same result pretty consistently. What is it that all those players don’t know about how wonderfully OP the thief class is?

How is the number of a class a representation of how strong a class is? If anything, its a representation of how easy a class is. And I’m not sure about the population of TC but it can’t be as many as Blackgate and we have plenty of thieves running around.

Arrow.4619:

Oh and just for the heck of it: while your at it just to prove the thief’s PvE OPness try the Inquest Golem event Mount Maelstrom (I hope you about a 10 ms ping and no noticeable lag. Have fun!.

Is this supposed to be hard? Now I see why your having so much trouble with your thief. It might be somewhat difficult if I solo it.

Amiron.1067:

Does anyone have any records of highest possible dps for both Warrior and Thief? Because, when it’s said and done, I really don’t feel like my thief does that much less dps than my warrior. In fact, I feel like my Thief has more burst damage than my warrior. Both are in full zerkers, as well.

Thief barely outdamages a warrior. With cleave. With d/d you should be close to doubling a warriors damage.

ive tried going routes like this in explaining it. they just dont let it sink in. between the trolls and thief haters….it just …. wont sink in. excellent points tho.
heres another… check the LFG status. they actually have “no thieves plz” in the lfg status.

And how does that represent a classes ability to perform well? That just shows how bad the average thief is and why most people believe thief is UP.

I can’t believe I’m about to reply to this, especially since your general attitude is pretty miserable. Not sure why you are resistant to the idea of improving something.

Clumsy.6257:

Arrow.4619:

If thieves are so OP in PvE there ought to be tons of them – right?

Absolutely not. The most popular class is always going to be the easiest. After that you have to consider what the majority of the population actually does. In this case the majority likes to run around in open world zergs, a 1200 range-fest.

I’m pretty sure that’s the point. Other classes are way too easy to play. Why are they easy? Think about it… I’ll give you a hint, it’s what this thread is about!

Clumsy.6257:

Thief barely outdamages a warrior. With cleave. With d/d you should be close to doubling a warriors damage.

I’d like to see the actual math to support this. Maybe you’re assuming that you are attacking a stationary target that isn’t fighting back. But I think you have to take into the account the amount of time you have to put into dodging and evading and what not. Where a warrior can keep up more consistent DPS in an actual fight without having to worry as much about being 1 shotted. (assuming you are in zerker gear).

It is kinda sad when you think about it… that thief became this PVP only class. When i saw the very first trailers, gameplays and convention footage i immediately fell in love with a thief. It was such a perfect class… everything i ever wanted for a rogue stealthy class in an MMO, but as they nerfed and nerfed it even more to make it less op in PVP and yet almost useless in PVE… i couln’t take it anymore so i switched to warrior

Now don’t get me wrong warrior is fine and is actually fun to play with in PvE, but its just not…… me.

Clumsy.6257:

Arrow.4619:

If thieves are so OP in PvE there ought to be tons of them – right?

Absolutely not. The most popular class is always going to be the easiest. After that you have to consider what the majority of the population actually does. In this case the majority likes to run around in open world zergs, a 1200 range-fest.

Arrow.4619:

Better yet, go to an event – any world event and do the same survey. Do it enough times and you get the same result pretty consistently. What is it that all those players don’t know about how wonderfully OP the thief class is?

How is the number of a class a representation of how strong a class is? If anything, its a representation of how easy a class is. And I’m not sure about the population of TC but it can’t be as many as Blackgate and we have plenty of thieves running around.

ive tried going routes like this in explaining it. they just dont let it sink in. between the trolls and thief haters….it just …. wont sink in. excellent points tho.
heres another… check the LFG status. they actually have “no thieves plz” in the lfg status.

And how does that represent a classes ability to perform well? That just shows how bad the average thief is and why most people believe thief is UP.

Clumsy, Clumsy, Clumsy . . . cannot figure out if you are just a troll or an apologist for Anet.

Sparrow already tried to head smack you with the obvious point you overlooked so I won’t bother. This entire thread is about PvE balanced being sacrificed for PvP balance. Anet made a really fundamentally flawed decision long ago not to separate the skills/traits/etc. between PvE and PvP. PvPers may take exception when PvEers point this out but most of that exception is taken because class balance is as broken for them as well. The only people who don’t get it are people like you, one ot the “I’m an uber player so you should just shut up, man up and just l2p crowd” that everyone else finds rather pathetic.

Arrow.4619:

Oh and just for the heck of it: while your at it just to prove the thief’s PvE OPness try the Inquest Golem event Mount Maelstrom (I hope you about a 10 ms ping and no noticeable lag. Have fun!.

Is this supposed to be hard? Now I see why your having so much trouble with your thief. It might be somewhat difficult if I solo it.

Now try not to be silly (although your response was partially my fault I suppose since I wasn’t clear enough). I can solo the event now . . . anyone could with the right class. I could do that on my thief but would I could very well have to spend more than I make from the event on repair bills and way pointing out. I’ve completed it once with my thief without getting downed and I realized after that the event is simply not worth the effort with a thief. As a thief your range is 900 which means you HAVE to be on the platform in the “kill zone” for the Inquest Golem event, which also means that unless you know and/or can see the electric filed pattern and have very very good reflexes you will get downed instantly at least once and probably several times (whether it be from lag, failing to notice the wisps as electric field starts to come up, or just simply missing that dodge or Withdrawl or Shadow Return by a fraction of a second). There is no room for error and its simply foolish to bother with that event if you have to get within 900 range (let alone hand-to-hand). The only class that can do that event at 900 or less range with any reasonable chance of walking away unscathed it the Warriors (as the can either make themselves immune to direct damage or conditions for long enough to get away from the field). I compare my experience as a longbow ranger in that event (which I did “2 man” but not solo just recently) with my experiences playing the thief. On my ranger I never used a heal and face tanked/Rampaged my way through the entire event. If you are at that event as a thief you are the least OP player at the event . . . guaranteed. You either get that or you don’t.

The event itself is actually a perfect example of of how PvE class balance has been unnecessarily broken by balancing for the sake of PvP. The thief range limitation is clearly about making sure a very mobile class (the thief) cannot simply hound players at range forever and never get caught. A totally unnecessary restriction in PvE since any class at 1000-1200 range can simply run away and escape most PvE encounters if necessary. A thief with a 1200 range is no better or worse off than any other class in a PvE encounter. A thief in an encounter where a 1200 range is a virtual necessity is clearly at a distinct disadvantage.

Sparrow.5936:

I can’t believe I’m about to reply to this, especially since your general attitude is pretty miserable. Not sure why you are resistant to the idea of improving something. I’m pretty sure that’s the point. Other classes are way too easy to play. Why are they easy? Think about it… I’ll give you a hint, it’s what this thread is about!I’d like to see the actual math to support this. Maybe you’re assuming that you are attacking a stationary target that isn’t fighting back. But I think you have to take into the account the amount of time you have to put into dodging and evading and what not. Where a warrior can keep up more consistent DPS in an actual fight without having to worry as much about being 1 shotted. (assuming you are in zerker gear).

You seem to be misinterpreting. I’m not against brainstorming ideas to improve something. I’m against making this class easy because in turn Anet would balance us out to be much weaker. And most importantly back to what the OP was complaining about, all classes are balanced, except necromancer. Its about trade-offs. You say that some classes are easier. They are. They’re also weaker. Thief and elementalist are both top tier damage and have a good bit utility but because of that higher damage they are made to be much squishier. On the other hand, you have warriors who have a strong offensive support in the form of banners but have mediocre damage to be balance out the heavier armor, blocks, and healing signet. Apparently you seem to think that thieves deserve the same survivability of the warrior while maintaining our superior damage. I’m not going to provide you with any math. Do it yourself. I did it myself. Just to point out this tiny little factor, if a thief has to dodge but a warrior doesn’t, then the warrior takes a hit and will be below 90% hp and lose a 10% damage bonus so a warrior is going to be dodging just as much as a thief.

edit:Disclaimer: currently thieves support abilities (stealth) are useless due to a certain consumable that provides permanent stealth, because of this a thief really has no place in the current meta until that consumable is nerfed, an elementalist would be a much better option providing your group isn’t cheap and will spend ~3g and buy a stack of them

Arrow.4619:

snip

Just to provide a little background information that renders your argument invalid, pve and s/tpvp are split balance-wise. While the cluster bomb nerf was a little odd it didn’t change anything for fractals/dungeons and a thief could never “hound players at range” in pvp due to cluster bomb’s slow moving arc. If your having trouble with the golem in 900 range then either your not paying attention or your lagging so badly that you can’t see whats happening. I do agree that 1200 range would make open world pve easier to afk and that thieves should have this option. However thieves have never had a 1200 range auto attack, only the worlds slowest projectile that’s about as inaccurate as North Korea’s missiles.