Guild Wars 2

Hi all, I am having difficulty with GW2 in PVE.

My problem is only when I go to new beginning areas after I carefully leveled up to 20ish by getting 100% in my starting area (so I am effectively under level 10 in the new area).

What usually happens is an event appear around me or I’ll take on a group of enemies (like level 9 harpies or bandits) and before I know it I am 1-2 hit downed with no way to recover and I die because they keep attacking me. If I didn’t care about dying it wouldn’t be an issue but I always play RPG’s to permadeath rules (for me that is role playing even though it’s not an option in-game, I blame 12 years of Diablo for this mindset lol).

In action isometric RPG’s and in more traditional single player RPG’s I can play on the hardest difficulty and come out on top after I develop my skills over time, but in GW2 no matter how ‘on top’ I think I am I can die in an instant from what seems like a ridiculously under-powered enemy in a level area less than half my actual level. To me it seems as this game is designed to ensure I die cheaply unless I remain in my current level area and/or stay in a large group (which can be hard to find sometimes). I am also careful to keep my weapons and armor at my current level.

This is my first real attempt an MMORPG so do I have the wrong expectations on what’s possible, or am I doing something wrong?

I ask because people in this forum always say PVE is so easy, maybe they aren’t trying to play a character with zero deaths or maybe I suck at MMORPG’s. Also, I have done this with 10 characters so far and always the same result so I have been trying to work my way through this. My last character was a level 21 necromancer (I loved that character) that had never been downed until I was in a small party taking on the ghost boss under old Duke’s estate in the Charr beginning area, needless to say all 4 of us were slaughtered within 15 seconds (and I have beaten this ghost on several occasions in the past but it just seemed strangely strong this time).

Any suggestions would be appreciated, cheers.

cant really help other than syaing “get better”, though your game record seems to point you already are a better player, it is very hard, if not impossible, to not die at least once here, if you intend to keep playing wiht self inflicted permadeath rules:

1.- never take on more than 2 foes at a time
2.- never fight agianst a champion boss
3.- becareful when figthing veterans
4.- dont enter dungeons, neither explorable nor story modes
5.- stay clear of orr
6- keep your armor up to date.

its not that its intended for you to “die cheaply”; its just that the game was meant to be as much action as possible as it could allow, meaning you have to dodge, and at some point you are to die, if you are soloing, getting downed will most likely also mean that you will die.

now why would you play at permadeath self rule beats me, but if thats your wish to play, go ahead and keep playing like that, but personally i have to say, you will not find it enjoyable here.

Check the level of your gear. Often times people will be ~10-15 levels above the gear that they have equipped. The level scaling also plays a significant role in keeping areas challenging at high levels.

AW Lore.5682:

now why would you play at permadeath self rule beats me, but if thats your wish to play, go ahead and keep playing like that, but personally i have to say, you will not find it enjoyable here.

LOL, I’ve asked myself this during the past couple of heartbreaking deaths and the answer is always ‘this toon is tarnished by death’ and I just can’t continue playing with it. Perhaps the problem is my expectations etc but you know what, Diablo 2 hardcore play was extremely fun for me.

i know about it, i made one char, i died at lvl 12, never tried again, it was defnitively not fun for me, and here in these few months since the came out my main has died 272 times, and im not a bad player, but sometimes it just happens.

i really wish you teh best with this but i highly doubt you’ll have fun here, specially when other players have a high influence in your live or die situations.

have you tried diablo 3?

Level scaling means that any time you go to a new starting area, your toon is “starting over.” A level 20 going from Queensdale to Wayfarer Hills has the same chance to survive in the area as a level 1-5 toon. You probably assume, even if only subconsciously, that you outlevel the content and it should not be as difficult as running through the new area with a new toon.

I don’t know why you would want to handicap yourself with “permadeth” rules, but I’d recommend you do not. The game is already designed to be challenging at any level, and because of this even high level toons are more likely to die when going back into lower level areas.

Looks like it’s as I suspected, the game isn’t really designed for any type of permadeath play… Ah well, if I can get past the fact my toon has died I might be able to see some of the higher level content lol.

Thanks for the replies guys!

Which proffesion do you use ? There are a few that seem to be better at solo-pve then others. Without knowing that, all I can say is learn when to evade and heal, use stuns and other forms of creature control, and (i know it’s already said, but still) don’t pull more then 1-2 mobs at once. And stay clear of WvW, you never know when a zerg of 80 people runs around the corner …

As a warrior, I think there’s only been one occurance where I’ve legitimately been overwhelmed and killed. Otherwise, I essentially put myself in front of death’s door willingly (typically when engaging champs.)

I’ve considered doing this very act with another warrior but only if there’s an achievement as a result. Otherwise, it’s this stressful experience with nothing to show for it and only fear of dying when I hit the cap. What do I do if I do die at 80? Delete the toon?

Well… as an RPer that might draw some real emotion from others, even if it’s just over a bunch of pixels >.>

Solution. Play Planescape: Torment to get over your fear of perma-death.

Also, yeah, that’s not gonna work. However, if you want those rules, why not force yourself to sell all your gear when you die? You sort of start from scratch this way.

StormageddonBK.9842:

AW Lore.5682:

now why would you play at permadeath self rule beats me, but if thats your wish to play, go ahead and keep playing like that, but personally i have to say, you will not find it enjoyable here.

LOL, I’ve asked myself this during the past couple of heartbreaking deaths and the answer is always ‘this toon is tarnished by death’ and I just can’t continue playing with it. Perhaps the problem is my expectations etc but you know what, Diablo 2 hardcore play was extremely fun for me.

I know where you’re coming from because I played on whcl for years but there is no way in hell you can play “hardcore” in GW2. There are so many instagibs :/ I have been 1 shot before into downed and I run a mix of toughness and vit, fully geared lvl 80

Just think of bugged FELE lister if you remember that in the old days of HC baal runs haha.

Outside of dungeons, the game absolutely supports this style of play well through at least the mid levels.

You just can’t let yourself be overwhelmed. If you try to fight 5+ things at once without some sort of plan you’ll eat the dirt sometimes. Mobs actually leash pretty quickly in this game, simply running in the opposite direction while dodge rolling occasionally is an extremely viable way to stay alive against anything outdoors as long as the stuff doesn’t out level you or something.

As such, dying usually means you legitimately screwed up by entering a bad situation and staying around too long.

As for not picking up the random death here and there during events with lots of mobs, don’t be the guy that gets everythings attention as they’re approaching. If you’re doing one of those “defend the ring against invaders” type events that means not jumping in front and firing off some big AOE that gets 9 mobs on you unless you have a specific plan to kite them.

Often times you have npc help in those events so even if you have little/no other players around, let them be the ones that take the initial volley from everything incoming.

Beyond that, there’s just little reason to die on the overworld map. I don’t play some sort of permadeath style but I can say on my second trip to 80 I only died maybe 5 times or so outside of pvp. Believe me, it wasn’t through some incredible feat of skill that I didn’t die much, just a general understanding of when to run away and how to deal with large groups of mobs in events. All of my deaths by the way, could have been avoided if I was playing permadeath and was really intentional about staying alive.

The easiest advice again, is simply to run in the other direction. 99% of mobs simply don’t have an answer to this (some high level mobs can immobilize/pull you, but honestly even then you can just eat it and then continue running even if you don’t have some condition removal of some sort loaded). So then you’re just left with knowing when it’s time to run, if you start running at 10% with your heal on cooldown, that’s probably not going to cut it. There’s no reason to get one shot by multiple mobs in events because there’s no real reason to ever be in a position in an event where that many mobs can hit you all at once.

Imo do the perma death thing on another of yout alts, not your main, just so yoi fitst grt a feel of how to play the game

I tried playing with my ‘zombie toon’ for a day and couldn’t do it and I figured out why, re-spawning (for me) makes it feel like all skill has been taken out of the game.

I know there’s a token death penalty of a few copper for re-spawn and gear repair but so what? I might as well hit the ‘I win button’ when all I have to do is re-spawn over and over to see all the content. I did try Wv3 for a couple of hours and it was fun even though I died 4 more times, but I expected it. However, I’m a PVE story driven role player and I definitely don’t want to kill off my PVE character in Wv3 (I’d have to have a dedicated toon for Wv3 for sure).

I guess what I’m saying is ‘PVE death’ in this game is pointless if you re-spawn as easily as dropping a few copper, why don’t you just get taken to a field hospital and call it ‘/recoveries’ instead of ‘/deaths’ if all it takes is some token payment to magically reappear, I mean all the toons are zombies after their first death right, so is the world populated by zombies now? :P Sorry for my rant, I just died again…

I’m starting my next toon now (trying another tank guardian as this is the build I got the furthest in at lvl 26), but chances are I’ll die in the few hours or so. I’m am finding I really need to avoid story events as I have no idea if it’s an easy/impossible mission unless you’ve done it before, but then I’ll miss out on the story, sigh…

p.s. I did try Diablo 3 as suggested (it’s free until level 13 on Battlenet) and it looks like Torchlight 1 and is BORING as hell. Very linear, and very uninteresting (glad I didn’t get this on launch lol). It’s nothing like Diablo 2 in game-play and equipment etc…

Hahaha…

My level 8 guardian was one hit killed by the bandit boss (who I didn’t see) in the cave outside Queensdale as I approached the bridge lol. Don’t know what he was doing there (didn’t know he could cross the bridge), maybe chasing someone else from the instance.

So I give up on GW2 permadeath as it is impossible and not fun (especially if you solo), I mean if you are 1 hit from an enemy within your level area then it just can’t be done. I’ll try to stick with Wv3 as it seemed fair but other than that I just can’t sink another minute of my time than the 250+ hours I’ve already spent trying to play PVE.

I guess I would also add scaling in the game is drunk in some places. Im not sure if it is a level issue or gear issue or coding. But there were some sections when i was scaled I actually felt weaker then when I was the right level for that stuff. Now that i am 80 and in exotics when i scale everything is so freaking easy it isnt fun. Im not sure where the middle is.

Id also make a point of at least stacking 10 points into vitality. This has saved me a lot. at level 22 it took me from being all but 1 shot on the fire elemental with close to 6-8 deaths. To not dying.

Thanks Wryscher I’ll have to try the vitality stacking on my next PVE character (when I calm down that is :P). I did that on a previous character in the past but even that didn’t work out for me then, but who knows, after a few patches and bug fixes maybe the anomaly of instant deaths (mostly when scaled down) will also disappear.

I also like to play Dead is Dead in offline RPGs but I don’t think it is a viable playstyle in any MMO.

I played in a Permadeath Guild in EQ2 for several months. If you are ever looking for more challenge in any game, try that for awhile. If you die in game, delete the toon and start over. No rezzing allowed.

It finally folded. Mostly because all of us just got tired of re-rolling toon after toon. No matter how good you think you are…you will die eventually. No biggie to lose a young toon…much harder to lose level 50’s and above.

The hardcore setting in Diablo is a setting in a single player game. That’s a big difference right there.

Even though a lot of the content is soloable, it is also a game for groups and so it’s easier to make a mistake and end up dead.

Also the downed mechanic is part of the combat system. It’s expected that you go down from time to time and it’s up to the group to notice it and ress you….again as part of the combat system.

This mechanic does mean that also as a solo player you can’t realistically expect to never get downed and this, since you are alone and no one is there to ress you, means then that leveling to 80 without ever dying is not realistic either.

Any group play like dungeons and wvw also will mean that from time to time you will die.

All in all I won’t say that it’s impossible but just not realistic to play in this mode in GW2

I don’t see why you couldn’t play that way though. The downed state does allow you to Rally. True death is when it gives you the option to portal somewhere.

If I were to play a permadeath toon here though, it would be a ranger specced for toughness and Vitality. With axes & warhorn and Longbow. Fight from a distance, run if necessary. Never close for melee.

Sort of assassin mode. Pick your fights, ambush…no more than 2 × 1...but keep it 1 × 1 as much as possible. Use your pet effectively. Scout the area ahead of you…move carefully etc…etc..

in GW2 as in life there are only 2 guarantees. death and gold sinks.

O.o

Uh… it seems like you’re putting a needless level of insanity on yourself with your personal permadeath rule, honestly. I guess the best thing you can do is follow what other people have said, but maybe you ought to try dealing with whatever is going on in your head as well.

How about you just lie there until someone comes along and revives you? Though I’m not sure if you’d get idle-kicked. I guess relogging isn’t so bad though.

GW1 had a survivor title for making it to max level (and quite a ways beyond) without dieing, but in general, many people didn’t go for the title on their first character, it was something they came back to work on with a new character that was set asside to work on this title. Later on, the title was changed to allow characters who had died to earn the title by accumulating the experience total for the title without deaths.

Honestly, the game is designed that you will face death as a frequent possibility. One of the dev’s has said “Personally, I love that my content kills players and challenges them. I feel pretty kitteny though when my content beats someone into the ground and takes their lunch money.” (full post is: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/4-hours-of-Arah-EM-and-no-shards/first#post392172)

My suggestion would be to play through the game on a character you like, get to know your way around, and then come back to try a run without deaths.

I loved D2 Hardcore, but there was also a reason you couldn’t create a Hardcore character until you’d beaten normal mode :P

Hope that helps, and good luck in your endeavors!

XCom is an option for the PD player.

Couldn’t you just stay in a 1-15 zone all game? If you want to get to 80 without dying I hate to say it but you’re probably best off just running gathering laps around Queensdale.

If you wanna get to 80 without dying…. drop 40+ gold and craft your way there.

There really isn’t any other way to do it, not as far as I can see.

Besides, you’ll never know how much you can accomplish until you find the point where you fail. That’s a lot of the fun, for me at least. Will this kill me? I dunno but WE’RE ABOUT TO FIND OUT! To quote Sam Jackson.. hold on to your butts! ;D

warmonkey.8013:

If you wanna get to 80 without dying…. drop 40+ gold and craft your way there.

There really isn’t any other way to do it, not as far as I can see.

Besides, you’ll never know how much you can accomplish until you find the point where you fail. That’s a lot of the fun, for me at least. Will this kill me? I dunno but WE’RE ABOUT TO FIND OUT! To quote Sam Jackson.. hold on to your butts! ;D

I did fine leveling my necro 1-80 with no deaths and not sticking exclusively to crafting. Know when to pick and choose battles (I also didn’t do a dungeon so that prob helped).

Mira said…

“…Couldn’t you just stay in a 1-15 zone all game? If you want to get to 80 without dying I hate to say it but you’re probably best off just running gathering laps around Queensdale….”

That would be one way, I suppose. Bu the challenge of permadeath is to complete most content without dying. It takes honesty and integrity on the part of the participants in a Guild setting. And even on personal setting where you are challenging yourself.

I wouldn’t mind giving it another whirl. What server are you on Storm?

Raf, I’m on the Northern Shiverpeaks server and my toon goes by the name ‘Permadeath’ :P

Just started a thief for pure DPS to see if I can go on the offensive instead of tanking lol.

Mira, I tried staying in 1-15 zones but the down-leveling seemed to make me weaker the higher level I became. (weaker as in a level 25 was weaker than a level 10 in a level 10 zone…)

So far it seems very powerful but I haven’t tackled a boss yet.

On a side note, I think I could handle Diablo 2 Hard Core because of health potions, I remember having half my inventory dedicated to spamming potions which would have saved me countless number of times.

• Oh, I’m on holidays out of town without internet for a week starting Monday so if I’m not there I didn’t quit!!!

He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.

Watch your health, equip an escape (swiftness buff, condition removal) get the kitten out of there when your health drops under 50%.

Personally, I would never play PD in GW2. It is trading the thrill of taking on challenges and sometimes beating the odds with running and fear. This is a game and I want it to be exciting, not just thankful to be surviving. It is simply too restricting in the content available and a completely different state of mind.

I hope you’re using food, too, though I’m not sure how useful food and enhancement buffs will be at such low levels. As other have mentioned, you need to be careful on your pulls (what level, how many, are they veterans/champions/etc.) regardless of what level you really are. I’d further suggest killing ranged mobs (especially those with guns) first. Their projectiles are often really hard to see and dodge and they’ll just keep plucking away your health.

Vitality and toughness are certainly good traits to go after, there are also foods that increase your health and damage while downed, or foods that add a constant health regen that you might find beneficial.

Good luck.

Being a RP-er myself, I don’t really understand the concept of your toon being “tarnished by death” – since you don’t actually die in this game. You get defeated. Not quite the same. Basically you get the stuffing beaten out of you and left for dead. That’s the game explanation.

Alternatively, you could play a magical character which is immortal (Planescape: Torment style), or defies death through various magical means (necromancer with a phylactery), or simply is denied death by higher powers due to his/her destiny. That way you can stay true to your character and avoid that whole “yeah, but it DIED, man!” feeling.

If you play permadeath for challenge, you won’t see high level content. MMO’s are designed to frequently wipe the floor with players. Keeps the treadmill going.

I have leveled all classes to level 20 or above and I hardly die in PvE except a few falling deaths. Was dying a lot with my first character in story quest but after I realize how to treat them, hardly die now.

You might want to be aware of some of the rules which is specifically useful in GW2.

(1) Update your gear every 6 levels starting from level 14 with masterwork gears. Then it is 20, 26/27, 32/33, … depends on your profession and builds. There is a severe problem with the current side-kicking system. If you don’t update your gear, you can become weaker and weaker when you gain level if you keep using the same gear. The multiplier applied to your downscaled stats at level 14 with level 14 gear is 14/14, but become 14/19 at level 19 (You are weakest at level 19 until you get the new gear set at level 20 to bring it back to 20/20 or that multiplier would be 14/20 which is 0.7, meaning you lose 30% more of every stats after downscaling).

(2) With the exception of some events that you cannot let a specific npc die, usually you want to let the npc ‘tank’ a while for you (unless you are a guardian/warrior and you are confident that you can take the hit). Let the npc die while you deal as much damage as you can, then finish the mobs, revive the npc. This is also useful in many cases in story quest. Run immediately when an encounter starts suddenly, then come back to participate is always a good option in this game.

(3) Traits priority should be always on Toughness and Vitality in low level because that +100 toughness/vitality means A LOT when your level is low, and become much less significant at high level. So, level 80 builds are not always a good choice for low level. You will get them reset twice at higher level after all.

As a roguelike player from way back I can certainly sympathize with your position, OP, but the fact is that only a few games are actually designed for permadeath. Roguelikes are a good example. For one thing, they’re turn-based – which allows plenty of time not to do something dumb… which any game in real-time is going to make you do eventually. Hell, there’s not even a pause button in a MMORPG… much less a way to deal with death due to lag or service loss!

It’s an interesting problem. Heroic fiction rarely allows for the death of the protagonist – and RPG’s have had to deal with this mess since 1974. In a story – the hero is often captured alive – only to escape later from the lair of the bad guys, for instance… in a game? that could work, I suppose – but it would make group-play difficult.

I’ve always wondered why I couldn’t choose from different difficulty levels within the game to say – enhance my loot-finding at the risk of losing more xp when I die. Such a system could work in GW2 or any MMORPG because the rules would apply to individuals who could still participate together.

Fisher.8290:

Personally, I would never play PD in GW2. It is trading the thrill of taking on challenges and sometimes beating the odds with running and fear. This is a game and I want it to be exciting, not just thankful to be surviving. It is simply too restricting in the content available and a completely different state of mind.

EXCITING! Exactly

I may look down on PvE monkeys who love their tiered gear progression excuse for content (I do… ‘cause I don’t like it), and I may not ever care to play permadeath anything (I kinda really don’t, though I suppose DayZ is permadeath since you lose all your stuff.. but that has no progression other than finding new stuff!)..

but permadeath? more power to ya, I wouldn’t enjoy it, but best of luck.

Me, I like pulling more mobs.. and harder mobs.. and more harder mobs.. until I get to the point that, OK, yes, this right here, this is more than I can handle. This is too strong for me. Then I’ll try a different approach, see if I can play better to handle that kind of pull. The best pulls, in my mind, are the ones where I get downed, and then rally immediately as a mob dies, fall over again, rally again because another mob died, throw a dodge in and blast any and all abilities off cooldown at whatever’s remaining, and then loot their bodies with 100-some HP
EXCITEMENT!

Yeah I like heading down to the pirate ship in Cursed Shore by myself and pulling multiple mobs at once.. that for me is enjoyment. Oh god, will this work, can I pull this off, yes I can ok this is under controOHH GOD THEY’RE RESPAWNING ALREADY! Hehe.

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

in GW2 as in life there are only 2 guarantees. death and gold sinks.

So sad, yet so true.

My advice is to level up in the 1-15 areas. You will get to know which areas of these might be risky and once you get to around level 30 or 40 these areas become really really easy. When you get higher, perhaps even level 80, you can take advantage of the best gear and traits. Traits that will allow you survive better in downed state, or when low on health. Then you can take on the other challenges. If your aim is just to get to 80 then that’s easy. If its 100% completion or whatever, then good luck.