Guild Wars 2

Obviously the patch is 99% complete since it’s going up today sometime, so why can’t we get the patch notes BEFORE the patch??

Better yet, how about putting patches with full patch notes on a public test server 1-2 weeks before they go live.

Cuz…no?

They don’t want to…

We are going to get the notes before the patch.

I like Jeffrey Vaughn more then the moderators, he didnt lock the topic after his remark :P

Emunator.5371:

I like Jeffrey Vaughn more then the moderators, he didnt lock the topic after his remark :P

Suddenly; “Badmouthing moderators, thread closed”

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

We generally don’t release patch information beforehand for the simple reason that things don’t always make it. Sometimes, we have to hold off on a feature at the last minute, and it’s better not to over-promise.

Excelent! Just excelent! This IS the way to comunicate, Jeffrey thank you very much.

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

If you don’t like how Arenanet operates then play a different game. Simple as that.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

We generally don’t release patch information beforehand for the simple reason that things don’t always make it. Sometimes, we have to hold off on a feature at the last minute, and it’s better not to over-promise.

Err…

Regardless, its not stopped you from pushing a new build a few hours later, and adding those fixes to the patch notes afterwards…like you did before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-3-2012

Releasing notes before and adding ones you eventually fix won’t be any different…right?

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

really. this is quite sad. there are many reasons why patch notes are not released before the patch rolls out. what mark said is completely true. in addition, if any recipes are released, then the effect on the tp is absolutely massive.

BroScientist.9875:

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

If you don’t like how Arenanet operates then play a different game. Simple as that.

operates the game? do you even read what you type, is not about how they operate the game, is about how they handle the information, like the 40 megabyte patch they did a couple of days ago in which they never revealed what it contained.

beside some members of the community that lack of common sense or knowledge about topics that are being talked about, (like you) the game is pritty much fine

Jeffrey:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That actually sounds brilliant! It’s a win/win!

kiba.2768:

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

really. this is quite sad. there are many reasons why patch notes are not released before the patch rolls out. what mark said is completely true. in addition, if any recipes are released, then the effect on the tp is absolutely massive.

so after the release the tp is not affected massively anyways? right, that is what you ment?

Gorwe.9672:

Jeffrey:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That actually sounds brilliant! It’s a win/win!

You realize that would probably just eat dev time trying to figure this stuff out and we wouldn’t get the notes significantly earlier, right? I’d love to know just as much as everyone but we’re just going to have to wait a few hours here (hopefully it does land today).

Benkei.6293:

kiba.2768:

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

really. this is quite sad. there are many reasons why patch notes are not released before the patch rolls out. what mark said is completely true. in addition, if any recipes are released, then the effect on the tp is absolutely massive.

so after the release the tp is not affected massively anyways? right, that is what you ment?

anyone who uses the tp knows that speculation runs rampant the days leading up to a new patch. those who bought up a ton of mats that are rendered useless lose in their gamble. now if there was such a thing as guaranteeing that your speculation paid off, then there’s no risk. those who stand to gain, will gain much more with an early release of patch notes. now do you understand? it is absolutely unfair to players who do NOT browse the forums like the tp vultures.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Benkei.6293:

BroScientist.9875:

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

If you don’t like how Arenanet operates then play a different game. Simple as that.

operates the game? do you even read what you type, is not about how they operate the game, is about how they handle the information, like the 40 megabyte patch they did a couple of days ago in which they never revealed what it contained.

As we stated at the time, that was a maintenance build. Nothing was changed. The 30-40MB you downloaded was the update process downloading a new EXE file, which happens whenever a build is released, regardless of if any content has changed.

People, the EXE alone is around 22MB, lets not forget that. Even changing the spelling of something in the client means a full redeploy of the EXE.

the reason is market prices and value of items

Benkei.6293:

BroScientist.9875:

Benkei.6293:

that statement is completely unreasonable, your patch releases contain hundreds of bugs and errors which you still have to be fixed later on, so releasing the information does not affect in any different way as the bugs and errors you are already including, if you dont want to release the information right now, then atleast come up with better excuses.

If you don’t like how Arenanet operates then play a different game. Simple as that.

operates the game? do you even read what you type, is not about how they operate the game, is about how they handle the information, like the 40 megabyte patch they did a couple of days ago in which they never revealed what it contained.

beside some members of the community that lack of common sense or knowledge about topics that are being talked about, (like you) the game is pritty much fine

Please tell me where I said “operates the game?” Obviously I was talking about how Arenanet operates in relation to releasing patch/notes and that would be clear to anyone who entered this thread.

Like I said, if you don’t like how they operate then move on to a different game. They can’t release the notes right this second because things may change last minute. They can’t give specific times because if they’re late by just one hour then people will have a kitten storm.

I’m confused, how do other games release patch notes (or a list of changes NOT related to the TP (or AH)) early then? It has never been an issue with other games as far as I know. I’m also very very confused about how anybody could not be sure what was getting released today. Shouldn’t all of this have been tested, tested, and re-tested before today? If not releasing something is related to the actual process of patching and some error there then isn’t there a method for testing that? I admit you can’t foresee every outcome but within reasonable doubt you can assume most will work before it is ever patched. How much testing actually takes place behind closed doors?

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

We generally don’t release patch information beforehand for the simple reason that things don’t always make it. Sometimes, we have to hold off on a feature at the last minute, and it’s better not to over-promise.

I don’t think people realize that this is a very good thing.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

If that is true you lose all credebility.
You should be 100% sure before any release or dont release it at all.
We are not your Q&A, your Q&A should have tested everything already.
And dont tell me your Q&A is testing till 1 hour before release, else you couldnt even set a date.
And no i dont mind it if bugs are left since not everything will be found by just a department testing.
But before release you must be 100% sure to release it, or else you shouldnt release it.
So if you are 100% sure you can release the patch notes too and not be afraid if we start complaining before or after the release.
But do not lie to us. I dont like to be lied to. (Should be “We dont like being lied to”, but i cant speak for everyone)

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

It’s true then what I said earlier in the closed thread- they’ve become scared to promote stuff. Sigh.

Look ANET, just accept that in life humans are not always right , aren’t always perfect, and don’t always do the best job. Oh, and there’s that little thing called unforeseen issues. WE GET THAT- we go through it every day.

ANET, instead of attempting to never be wrong by never promising anything, have the stones to announce what you hope to accomplish, and update us on the progress after the fact. If it doesn’t go right….oh well you tried, and more importantly you honestly COMMUNICATED (say it with me now) with us. This would be a better business model than what you have now, trust me.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

How certain are you then that you will release a proper patch 100% if you are not certain that patch features work at the day of the patch landing lol

It sounds like “We are not even certain that we will deploy patch, maybe it will fail in last minute”…

@Anet. I am just happy all of you are active in the forums. While I understand that a lot of people are super excited about updates and want to learn more ASAP, I think you have the right approach of only giving specific details when they are ready.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

I like the surprise. It’s like Christmas and the anticipation of whats coming. You would surely never open your presents early would you? Let’s all have what this world is lacking these days…Patience.

Personalty I like the thought of them holding off on info till its 100% done since I have played other games that would over promise and then break the game during an event, I’ve played one game that almost every event was like that, this is much better IMO since you know what day to expect it and know that they check for bugs before release to me that’s a win win.

Dragon.9564:

Personalty I like the thought of them holding off on info till its 100% done since I have played other games that would over promise and then break the game during an event, I’ve played one game that almost every event was like that, this is much better IMO since you know what day to expect it and know that they check for bugs before release to me that’s a win win.

Read my last post. What is the point of holding off until afterwards with the notes? You’re STILL going to have to rollback some things or do fixes for it later (if not all goes as planned), which will be in the hotfix notes, so there’s literally NO point in not stating beforehand what you are attempting to patch.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I’m confused, how do other games release patch notes (or a list of changes NOT related to the TP (or AH)) early then? It has never been an issue with other games as far as I know. I’m also very very confused about how anybody could not be sure what was getting released today. Shouldn’t all of this have been tested, tested, and re-tested before today? If not releasing something is related to the actual process of patching and some error there then isn’t there a method for testing that? I admit you can’t foresee every outcome but within reasonable doubt you can assume most will work before it is ever patched. How much testing actually takes place behind closed doors?

let me illustrate a point that though i didn’t express, it was more a read between the lines thing that ties in succinctly with mark’s official post.

what if a recipe was released in the patch notes that said for ‘x new item,’ you need:

250 powerful sacs of venom
150 mystic coins
200 karka shells
50 globs of ectoplasm

now, as per mark’s post, what if this recipe was not 100% working, yet according to the entitlement whiners here, the patch notes are due NO MATTER THE CONDITION OF THE PATCH ITSELF?

tp manips would go buy up these items furiously and artificially raise prices to astounding levels. then guess what? the recipe DOES NOT WORK.

now 3 things happen here:

1. the manips get kitten at anet, even though it wasn’t their fault. ‘when it’s done, it’s done.’

2. those who needed those mats are punished for the impatience of the people pushing for patch notes.

3. both parties lose confidence in anet’s ability to deliver, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN’T ANET’S FAULT.

gosh people really. learn to be patient.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

We generally don’t release patch information beforehand for the simple reason that things don’t always make it. Sometimes, we have to hold off on a feature at the last minute, and it’s better not to over-promise.

If that’s true, then you guys should change many previous patchnotes, as many trait changes you did are still bugged. This is contradicting.
With every patch it sounds more and more like a very poor Q&A, sorry.

Word on the grapevine is precursors are going to get an increase in drop rate this patch.

Man some of you are downright insane. It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so sad and pathetic.

Things change. If Q&A finds an exploit 10 minutes before the patch then they don’t deploy that part of the patch. If something that was supposed to be fixed is somehow broken in another way they pull that part of the patch. It really isn’t rocket science here, heck it isn’t even high school science.

my suggestion while waiting for the patch to release is to go see a movie, walk your dog, tell the CM’s here how much you love them in a thread(it’s community manager appreciation day) read a book, or just play gw2 as you have been playing it since launch and don’t think about it. That way, you won’t be building the anticipation up to heights that can never be reached and you won’t become one of those people that gets on forums and whines that what they released isn’t what you wanted and that you are going to quit the game etc. No one likes those people when they act like that.

Kiba, you forgot option 4. “sellers of the recipe get banned”.

Oh just kidding! :P

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Man some of you are downright insane. It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so sad and pathetic.

Things change. If Q&A finds an exploit 10 minutes before the patch then they don’t deploy that part of the patch. If something that was supposed to be fixed is somehow broken in another way they pull that part of the patch. It really isn’t rocket science here, heck it isn’t even high school science.

Q&A should be well done before you release a patch date in general. Do not put up hard limits unless you are sure you can make them.

Dear god Ive seen it all now. Does early patch notes do ANYTHING useful? Your complaining for the sake of hearing yourself complain now. Hell a mod answered the question and ya still cant leave it be.

Xavion.6580:

Kiba, you forgot option 4. “sellers of the recipe get banned”.

Oh just kidding! :P

you never know…what i believe is that anet learned from the snowflake fiasco. if a recipe were to loop infinitely with a 100% return in both profit and material, they would want to make sure it didn’t happen again and have a bad week of PR what with permabans and then the banned and co lashback against anet’s actions.

I think its great that they want to wait until they are sure the patch is ready I don’t know how many games I’ve played that didn’t practice this and received more complaints than the devs here are getting now. I rather have a finished product than a half baked one. I say just get up go out of the house maybe go see a movie, go to the mall, got to the park or to a friends house and wait for it to come out later that way you are distracted from the wait. If you have smart phones or access the the internet through some sort of phone or tablet just check back on the forum later as you are having a good time doing something else. Give the devs a break.

For all of you who keep making “OMG you are pathetic, learn some patience, yadda yadda…” statements and the like, remember that you are on here too.

Besides, most of us are asking for some accountability in patch notes, etc. I don’t see anyone saying they will explode if they can’t login in the next five minutes…

Xavion.6580:

For all of you who keep making “OMG you are pathetic, learn some patience, yadda yadda…” statements and the like, remember that you are on here too.

Besides, most of us are asking for some accountability in patch notes, etc. I don’t see anyone saying they will explode if they can’t login in the next five minutes…

No we get the “Is guild wars down ??” when the patch starts since we dont even get informed in the launcher about any update coming.

xavion, your point is pointless. we are here just like everyone else in anticipation of the patch dropping, yet we aren’t pointing a gun at anet’s back demanding notes prior to launch. i’m not fanboi’ing anet in any way, but imagine if there was an angry crowd outside of your workplace demanding something you couldn’t 100% guarantee because of unforeseen complications? how would you feel? not great, i can imagine.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

Hard to have faith in a company that doesnt have faith in itself.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

To everyone here that isn’t a developer – this is called continuous delivery

kiba.2768:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I’m confused, how do other games release patch notes (or a list of changes NOT related to the TP (or AH)) early then? It has never been an issue with other games as far as I know. I’m also very very confused about how anybody could not be sure what was getting released today. Shouldn’t all of this have been tested, tested, and re-tested before today? If not releasing something is related to the actual process of patching and some error there then isn’t there a method for testing that? I admit you can’t foresee every outcome but within reasonable doubt you can assume most will work before it is ever patched. How much testing actually takes place behind closed doors?

let me illustrate a point that though i didn’t express, it was more a read between the lines thing that ties in succinctly with mark’s official post.

what if a recipe was released in the patch notes that said for ‘x new item,’ you need:

250 powerful sacs of venom
150 mystic coins
200 karka shells
50 globs of ectoplasm

now, as per mark’s post, what if this recipe was not 100% working, yet according to the entitlement whiners here, the patch notes are due NO MATTER THE CONDITION OF THE PATCH ITSELF?

tp manips would go buy up these items furiously and artificially raise prices to astounding levels. then guess what? the recipe DOES NOT WORK.

now 3 things happen here:

1. the manips get kitten at anet, even though it wasn’t their fault. ‘when it’s done, it’s done.’

2. those who needed those mats are punished for the impatience of the people pushing for patch notes.

3. both parties lose confidence in anet’s ability to deliver, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN’T ANET’S FAULT.

gosh people really. learn to be patient.

You should read at least 1 sentence of my post… it would have saved you a lot of time. “or a list of changes NOT related to the TP (or AH)” I fully understand not adding in changes that directly or indirectly relate to the TP, but there are many changes (class, events, etc) that can be disclosed much earlier without much if any problems.

And on this “What if they find a problem 10 minutes before the patch is released” thing: If that happens, there wasn’t decent testing going on. Why are we getting a patch that they aren’t even sure about? Why are we getting a patch that they think might still hold some critical bug? If you aren’t sure (within a reasonable doubt) that this won’t go off without too many hiccups, and you aren’t sure enough to disclose patch info, then it probably hasn’t been tested enough. I do NOT want to be some QA group. That makes the game look like a beta and it shouldn’t be.

Is the DR and drop rate being tuned in this patch, will there be anything in the patch notes about it.

Or is the topic simply to radioactive at this point and no one will even bother with it.

EverythingXen.1835:

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Gorwe.9672:

How about you release patch notes with the stuff you are 100% sure about(balancing, already announced changes/additions) and release other stuff you are not sure about as a surprise content?

That’s exactly what we do—we can’t be 100% sure on ANYTHING until we actually release the update, so we pre-announce nothing.

Hard to have faith in a company that doesnt have faith in itself.

Well looking at the people in this thread alone whining about nothing, and you think its a faith thing. More like the cba listening to the endless crybabying when they have to leave even a slight thing out due to technical issues. Lets face it the people complaining the patch notes aint here before the patch are the type to scream bloody murder over nothing. Case proven with this thread.

kiba.2768:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I’m confused, how do other games release patch notes (or a list of changes NOT related to the TP (or AH)) early then? It has never been an issue with other games as far as I know. I’m also very very confused about how anybody could not be sure what was getting released today. Shouldn’t all of this have been tested, tested, and re-tested before today? If not releasing something is related to the actual process of patching and some error there then isn’t there a method for testing that? I admit you can’t foresee every outcome but within reasonable doubt you can assume most will work before it is ever patched. How much testing actually takes place behind closed doors?

let me illustrate a point that though i didn’t express, it was more a read between the lines thing that ties in succinctly with mark’s official post.

what if a recipe was released in the patch notes that said for ‘x new item,’ you need:

250 powerful sacs of venom
150 mystic coins
200 karka shells
50 globs of ectoplasm

now, as per mark’s post, what if this recipe was not 100% working, yet according to the entitlement whiners here, the patch notes are due NO MATTER THE CONDITION OF THE PATCH ITSELF?

tp manips would go buy up these items furiously and artificially raise prices to astounding levels. then guess what? the recipe DOES NOT WORK.

now 3 things happen here:

1. the manips get kitten at anet, even though it wasn’t their fault. ‘when it’s done, it’s done.’

2. those who needed those mats are punished for the impatience of the people pushing for patch notes.

3. both parties lose confidence in anet’s ability to deliver, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN’T ANET’S FAULT.

gosh people really. learn to be patient.

Not really a good point. Why? Because most patch notes released by developers would read more like:

New crafting recipes added!

And that’s it. Generally patch notes don’t break down what the whole recipe for something like that is. Heck, have you ever seen a patch from any MMO that lays out a new dungeon and breaks down how much Hp the enemies have, what items they drop, how the encounters work, etc?

Of course not. They just briefly tell you that there is a new dungeon and what it’s about. So why would they give you all the mats you need to know to make something?

[quote=1306722;Emunator.537
If that is true you lose all credebility.
You should be 100% sure before any release or dont release it at all.
We are not your Q&A, your Q&A should have tested everything already.
And dont tell me your Q&A is testing till 1 hour before release, else you couldnt even set a date.
[/quote]

Two things:

First, Al Lowe (a former Sierra Online programmer) said a long while ago that he would often be working on features and alterations right up until the discs went for printing (and sometimes during the process itself). Sometimes, a feature has to be removed at the last minute.

Second, I’ve been an EVE Online player for several years; the biggest fiasco CCP ever faced occurred when they promised features they were unable to properly deliver; two hundred people lost their jobs because of the negative backlash from upset fans.

It’s better that ANet doesn’t say anything until they know they can deliver.