So I just discovered from a friend they can’t access any of the ls3 maps because they don’t have the chapters unlocked???
It makes 0 sense to block each map behind a paywall for new or returning players. I 100% Understand blocking the actual story behind the wall but if I was a returning player to a buy to play game and found out hot which I purchased didn’t give me the new maps I most likely wouldn’t buy them but I’d be more inclined if I enjoyed the maps and wanted to know the story there.
But seriously it’s like making dry top and Silverwastes cost money if you didn’t log in during the time.
I’m sorry anet but that’s really messed up actually in my opinion.
Who knows though maybe my friend just can’t figure out how to get to the map and is wrong but if not I’m a sad player you’d do this
It makes sense when you consider that game developers need revenue to develop these maps, and anet have a once off purchase model instead of an ongoing subscription, which is cheaper for players. The maps don’t even have to be purchased with real money. you can use in-game gold to buy the gems. I did that for LS2, since I came to the game after it. Does that make the system more understandable now?
EDIT: In fact, I used my hard-earned gold to buy LS2 for a friend, as you can do for yours.
It’s not like LS content was not free to “bank” for later, for years, even if you didn’t want to play it, you could have just logged on and banked it for later.
There is no real requirement to do that content anyway. If it has something there you really want, then you can buy the LS content.
Hey, on the upside, at least you get a discount on HoT while those who got LS3 for free likely paid full price.
There’s a couple of different ways to look at this:
ANet’s Point of View
ANet needs to pay for new content, so they charge a nominal amount for LS chapters, $US10 max (for all chapters & maps in LS3), same as the cost of a new character.
To make the cost more attractive, the maps are also gated (along with different local map currencies that offer various benefits).
ANet would like to reward loyal players and one way they can do so is by making the LS chapters free for those who logon just once during the release period.
New Player PoV
For a new player, it can be difficult to see the logic: “I bought the game, why don’t I get the entire game?” And to be fair: the distinction is a bit arbitrary.
On the other hand, when you buy either HoT or PoF from ANet, it’s made clear that there’s an extra cost for the LS.
Alternatives to Charging for LS & Maps
The alternative is that ANet charges more for the base cost of the expacs — that doesn’t go down well with veterans, who probably spend the most RL money on gems, one of the major sources of revenue for the game.
In the end, ANet needs to accept that they are going to alienate a few people by gating maps behind the LS (& its costs). At the same time, players are going to have to accept that ANet is a business — they have to charge for more things than we’d like.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Most players that received Living World Season 3 purchased Heart of Thorns at launch (with free Living World Season 3) – $50.00 (plus Path of Fire [$30.00] – total $80.00)
New players – purchase Heart of Thorns – $30.00 + LW Season 3 – $10.00 (total – $40.00) or Heart of Thorns/Path of Fire bundle – $50.00 + LW Season 3 – $10.00 (total – $60.00)
Seems like many new(er) players got a (total cost) deal compared to ‘Veterans’.
You forgot to add that if you payed the $50 launch price you got to play the game for 2yrs more, which is of course a big deal. Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title that is why to attract buyers prices have to be driven down. But this living world ‘fee’ feels like a bit of bait then add on cost after for new/returning players esp since guys who logged in earlier got it for no extra cost. A game marketed as Free-to-Play with the only major component cost being the expansions. It seems a little underhanded and deceptive and is not something you want to do when you want to attract new comers.
if you log in when they’re relevant you get them for free.
not to mention LS3 can also be bought with gems, which you can buy with gold, if you feel really awful for your friend you could probably pitch in and help him out.
Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title
Only if they decide to have less play time. There’s no subscription and the game isn’t going anywhere. They have all the time in the world to play, if they want to, for as long as they want to, regardless of when they start.
I actually think what they could do is allow players onto the new maps even if they don’t have the chapter unlocked, but don’t allow them to unlock the mastery or the unique mechanics for that map, which would make it much less fun. Yeah, you could whip around Draconis Mons if you like, but with no grapple vine? Or Bloodstone Fen without the glider skills? Or Ember Bay without the Lava Tubes? Siren’s Landing without the Shrine portals?
I tend to think that playing those maps, without those travel methods available to you, would really get people excited about actually buying them.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
You forgot to add that if you payed the $50 launch price you got to play the game for 2yrs more, which is of course a big deal. Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title that is why to attract buyers prices have to be driven down. But this living world ‘fee’ feels like a bit of bait then add on cost after for new/returning players esp since guys who logged in earlier got it for no extra cost. A game marketed as Free-to-Play with the only major component cost being the expansions. It seems a little underhanded and deceptive and is not something you want to do when you want to attract new comers.
Only core game is free to play and it has been only for the last 2 years. Everything else is Buy To Play. LW is not different. They just happen to be given for free for a limited time to anyone who simply log in the game during that time.
Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title
Only if they decide to have less play time. There’s no subscription and the game isn’t going anywhere. They have all the time in the world to play, if they want to, for as long as they want to, regardless of when they start.
Kind of a false statement there. I have been back playing after being gone for 5 years and already looking to step away after just two weeks. Being so far behind and lost and limited is a turn down.
Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title
Only if they decide to have less play time. There’s no subscription and the game isn’t going anywhere. They have all the time in the world to play, if they want to, for as long as they want to, regardless of when they start.
Kind of a false statement there. I have been back playing after being gone for 5 years and already looking to step away after just two weeks. Being so far behind and lost and limited is a turn down.
How is it a false statement? Who are you “so far behind” and who, besides yourself, is making you step away after two weeks? Honestly, I’d like to know. These kinds of comments really confuse me. Having a ton of stuff to do in a video game sounds like a really awesome problem to have.
So far behind what? Having played the content to death? Far behind waiting for new content to play? I wish I had the whole world, new and exciting, in front of me.
It kind of sounds like you aren’t really interested in the game, having left at launch, and considering leaving, again, after only 2 weeks. You might consider concentrating on what you do like, and have, rather than what you don’t.
I haven’t actually played GW2 since shortly after the release of HoT. However, I always knew I’d come back someday, so I made it a point to log in every single day. It took just a few seconds of my time to do so, and in doing so I not only secured the daily log in rewards for my account, but I also unlocked the living story chapters as they became available.
I know you think it’s unfair, but from my perspective, I don’t see what the problem is. Again, I hadn’t played in ages and even I knew that the Living Story content was unlocked by logging in at that time. Even if I hadn’t logged in for the login rewards, I still knew about the Living Story updates through emails and social media posts, so I could have just logged in then to unlock it.
As far as feeling left behind, I didn’t time myself but I was able to get all the Living Story done within a few weeks of fairly casual play. Of course that was just the story itself, not 100% on the maps or getting all of the achievements.
I tend to think that playing those maps, without those travel methods available to you, would really get people excited about actually buying them.
My guess is that would lead to people complaining it’s pay-to-play, rather than feeling that they were getting value added for their gem purchase. Plus it’s almost certainly simpler to design the system to have one clear gate (unlocking the story) than to try to establish locks at the mastery level.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Total cost to play all Guild Wars 2 at this moment, about $90 or about six months of a Final Fantasy XIV subscription.
I’m not sure why people think $90 for 2 expansions and 2 living world seasons is somehow some sort of gigantic money grab. What MMORPG gives you more for less?
They have to earn money somehow. The Living stories aren’t even expensive. Nothing is “messed up”. Pay or don’t play those maps, which aren’t mandatory.
agreed, it makes zero sense to lock new content, that employees worked to generate, behind a paywall. After all, i paid for the first Harry Potter movie, why should have to pay again to see part 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7a and 7b?
Afaik, your friend should be able to access Siren’s Landing, at least, as long as he has logged in recently, or up until the release of PoF (assuming he also owns HoT).
As far as LS3 content access goes…. here’s a comparison:
Sub games: charge for XPacs and any new maps that come with them; rent you access to the game and XPacs you also bought; rarely if ever add new maps between XPac’s.
Most non-sub (or sub-optional) games: gate access to new maps behind an XPac or DLC price; and tie access not only to that price but also to ownership of the base game. Note the dual conditions required — own base game, plus pay.
ANet: publishes DLC (every 2-3 months). They also charge for it. It may be shorter DLC, but then the episodes don’t cost very much. They also have a dual access condition requirement (own latest XPac and pay for episode). And here it gets different: they waive the DLC cost for people who log in during the episode’s release period.
Which one’s the better deal? I know what I think. I suspect that the sour grapes from people who didn’t get that free unlock is based on frustrated expectations caused by inattention and/or failure to research fully before purchase; and failure to consider what the alternatives are in the gaming industry. No one else gives DLC away, even if it’s “just” a loyalty reward.
nah i understand the creator of this thread and agrre to it. you did buy Hot already and to lock hot content after you buyed it after a next paywall is realy not so good ….
if the would bring it as an dlc with some extras it would be ok but only story/mini map …. thats b.s.
Most non-sub (or sub-optional) games: gate access to new maps behind an XPac or DLC price; and tie access not only to that price but also to ownership of the base game. Note the dual conditions required — own base game, plus pay.
I like this one. I bought the base game before it was made free and was willing to pay for both expansions. However, I wont buy PoF and not have access to maps which were a freebie at some point before its release.
Youd think the whole point of having expansions in the first place is to have all the important stuff in one easy to purchase package.
I think it’s perfectly fair as it is. 800 gems = 10 Euros, less than a month’s subscription to other games, and that’s if you don’t log in for even just one moment while an episode is free.
If we’re going to criticize Anet’s money-making strategies, we should start with the gambling scheme that is BLC. Charging for actual content is completely acceptable.
Theres no reason to have it a freebie for players who logged in earlier if you say the reason is to make A.Net more money. The only thing you do is end up kittening ppl off who jumped onto the 2nd expansion thinking they can explore all areas that people who also bought both expansions can, but no. You are charged more. Atleast have the maps available for those who get PoF (if not the content itself) or include it in a package and make it obvious what youre missing out on. It doesnt disadvantage anyone, since they play the story component.
The bit I don"t like is having the LS but not able to get to a map as its been episode locked. Particularly if that episode is too difficult for me. Yes, LFG, but I like to do LS stuff by myself – isn’t that what they are for?
It makes 0 sense to block each map behind a paywall for new or returning players.
Frankly, the maps feel so underdeveloped and “throwaway”, I feel they’re doing returning players a service by not letting them see them immediately. They’d just drive them off again :<
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
It’s more like “Play to play new maps”. You can play the game, get gold by doing it, buy gems with gold, buy a story chapter with gems. 200 gems per chapter, it’s about 50 gold. Sounds like a lot but if you return to the game after, let’s say, 2 years, my bet is you have something in your storage that sells for more than 400 gold today, some weapon or skin that is not available anymore today.
But even if you have no gold at all, 50 gold is quickly earned. Do a few dungeon runs, go to the silverwastes, play some fractals. One or two days of simply playing the game gives you enough gold to buy a chapter. Then go play that new map and earn the next one by doing that.
nah i understand the creator of this thread and agrre to it. you did buy Hot already and to lock hot content after you buyed it after a next paywall is realy not so good ….
if the would bring it as an dlc with some extras it would be ok but only story/mini map …. thats b.s.
When was LS3 HoT content? Its clearly a balthazar prologue.
If you said LS2 that would’ve made sense. I seriously think LS2 shouldve been bundles into HoT special edition, and LS3 shoulve been bundled into PoF special edition.
If you said LS2 that would’ve made sense. I seriously think LS2 shouldve been bundles into HoT special edition, and LS3 shoulve been bundled into PoF special edition.
Well they do give you 4k gems with the deluxe editions of HoT and PoF
I’ve never liked the need to pay to unlock these story episodes, I can see how it’s a big turn off for returning players and (especially) for new players. I know it at least partially contributed to one of my friends not returning to the game with HoT. Now this guy is a serial “Founder’s Pack” purchaser with no problem spending money on games (in general at least). It just contributed to the general bad feeling he had about HoT.
I know why they do it, I just don’t think it’s a good idea.
You forgot to add that if you payed the $50 launch price you got to play the game for 2yrs more, which is of course a big deal. Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title that is why to attract buyers prices have to be driven down. But this living world ‘fee’ feels like a bit of bait then add on cost after for new/returning players esp since guys who logged in earlier got it for no extra cost. A game marketed as Free-to-Play with the only major component cost being the expansions. It seems a little underhanded and deceptive and is not something you want to do when you want to attract new comers.
Yes they could have marketed it better, but there’s an entire team working on the Living Story, how u do expect them to get paid? there has to be a point when freebees stop flowing and some of the costs get recouped. anyway frankly, if some 1 is that upset to have to pay extra $10 for 6 new zones, then that’s up to them, they don’t have to buy them, after all it is an optional content. You get games like ESO that charge more than double that amount for their dlc’s and they’re no where near rich in content, they complain about a mere $10 for so much content?
The Living Story is DLC, just under a different name. And just like DLC in any game you have to buy it if you want to play it.
I can see the sense in Anet offering some kind of bundle where you can buy HoT+PoF+LS 2&3 all together, but it’s highly unlikely they’re going to just give it away to everyone. I think we’re lucky they make it free for the first few months, I don’t know of any other game that does that.
Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).
Now this guy is a serial “Founder’s Pack” purchaser with no problem spending money on games (in general at least). It just contributed to the general bad feeling he had about HoT.
To each their own, but IMO it’s a bit odd that pre-orders, season passes, founders’ packs and such have become so widely accepted, but charging for actual, already existing content is somehow bad. I’ve lost all patience with people (especially big studios) clamoring for our money when there’s not even a product yet and won’t be for weeks or months on end. That’s why I stopped looking for Dauntless news when they released their founders’ packs and started spamming my inbox with emails about them.
Early access is a massive gamble as well, but at least you actually get something for it and can check out other people’s LPs and opinions first to decide if you may like it.
Tell your friend to either buy it and play or don’t. There’s nothing wrong with the system ANET employs. They need the revenue to keep putting out the content. Your friend should’ve logged on when it was free. I’ve quit many times since launch (and came back) yet I ALWAYS kept up on living stories. I would log in grab story while it’s free and log out again until next one. The system doesn’t need to be changed to accommodate a couple of players.
Noble Dragons (NOBL) rocking GW’s since 2005 now rocking the Sorrow’s Furnace Server!
If you said LS2 that would’ve made sense. I seriously think LS2 shouldve been bundles into HoT special edition, and LS3 shoulve been bundled into PoF special edition.
Well they do give you 4k gems with the deluxe editions of HoT and PoF
More accurately, 4000 Gems are included in the Ultimate Editions, but not the Deluxe Editions. =)
Now this guy is a serial “Founder’s Pack” purchaser with no problem spending money on games (in general at least). It just contributed to the general bad feeling he had about HoT.
To each their own, but IMO it’s a bit odd that pre-orders, season passes, founders’ packs and such have become so widely accepted, but charging for actual, already existing content is somehow bad. I’ve lost all patience with people (especially big studios) clamoring for our money when there’s not even a product yet and won’t be for weeks or months on end. That’s why I stopped looking for Dauntless news when they released their founders’ packs and started spamming my inbox with emails about them.
It’s a weird one alright, I think it’s mainly “fear of missing out”, I know I’ve happily bought the deluxe editions of base GW2, HoT and PoF because the idea that I might not have the random gewgaws that I’ll never use is just terrible! I mean, look how much use Mistfire Wolf is!
In my friend’s case, I reckon it’s more a reflection on the poor value that he thought HoT represented. As he said at the time he’s quite happy to drop money on just about any game he likes but a €50 expansion with so little content that didn’t even include the LS episodes… well, like I said, it just felt a little off to him.
Early access is a massive gamble as well, but at least you actually get something for it and can check out other people’s LPs and opinions first to decide if you may like it.
Yeah, I’ve personally given up on early access completely. I got burned out completely on Kickstarters that never materialised and, frankly, there are more finished games out there that I like than I’ll ever be able to play.
I don’t understand the appeal of various forms of season passes/pre-orders etc. either. It was a huge leap of faith for me to pre-purchase GW2 but I’d read a lot about the game and it seemed highly unlikely it was going to disappoint me. For various reasons it was much less of a gamble with HoT and PoF but it’s still not something I’d do unless I was absolutely sure I wanted the game/expansion.
With some games they start nagging you to buy a season pass before the DLC has even been announced – you have no idea what you’re actually buying but somehow you’re supposed to go for it anyway?
I have to admit when it was first announced as this great new thing I didn’t like the idea of DLC at all. It sounded to me like you pay full price for a ‘starter pack’ game and then have to keep paying out to get the full game. And in some cases that’s exactly how it’s used. But I don’t think GW2 is one of those. I certainly feel like I got a full game’s worth of content when I bought the base game, and whilst HoT was undeniably smaller I thought it was worth the price too (and now you can get both together for less than HoT cost originally it’s a great deal). So I don’t mind paying extra for additional storylines, just like I don’t mind paying extra when a new expansion comes out.
Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).
So I just discovered from a friend they can’t access any of the ls3 maps because they don’t have the chapters unlocked???
It makes 0 sense to block each map behind a paywall for new or returning players. I 100% Understand blocking the actual story behind the wall but if I was a returning player to a buy to play game and found out hot which I purchased didn’t give me the new maps I most likely wouldn’t buy them but I’d be more inclined if I enjoyed the maps and wanted to know the story there.
But seriously it’s like making dry top and Silverwastes cost money if you didn’t log in during the time.
I’m sorry anet but that’s really messed up actually in my opinion.
Who knows though maybe my friend just can’t figure out how to get to the map and is wrong but if not I’m a sad player you’d do this
Its a buy to play game not a subscription one. Dont expect everything to be handed out for free. Besides for the map/ story the price is low and they uped the time that you can get it for free to like up to 2-3 months.
There’s a couple of different ways to look at this:
ANet’s Point of View
ANet needs to pay for new content, so they charge a nominal amount for LS chapters, $US10 max (for all chapters & maps in LS3), same as the cost of a new character.
To make the cost more attractive, the maps are also gated (along with different local map currencies that offer various benefits).
ANet would like to reward loyal players and one way they can do so is by making the LS chapters free for those who logon just once during the release period.
New Player PoV
For a new player, it can be difficult to see the logic: “I bought the game, why don’t I get the entire game?” And to be fair: the distinction is a bit arbitrary.
On the other hand, when you buy either HoT or PoF from ANet, it’s made clear that there’s an extra cost for the LS.
Alternatives to Charging for LS & Maps
The alternative is that ANet charges more for the base cost of the expacs — that doesn’t go down well with veterans, who probably spend the most RL money on gems, one of the major sources of revenue for the game.
In the end, ANet needs to accept that they are going to alienate a few people by gating maps behind the LS (& its costs). At the same time, players are going to have to accept that ANet is a business — they have to charge for more things than we’d like.
Anet could put a season pass option when you purchase an expac. As you said 10 USD for the lw as well. It can be a pop up window when you go putchase the expac.
You forgot to add that if you payed the $50 launch price you got to play the game for 2yrs more, which is of course a big deal. Those late to the game will have less play time on a older title that is why to attract buyers prices have to be driven down. But this living world ‘fee’ feels like a bit of bait then add on cost after for new/returning players esp since guys who logged in earlier got it for no extra cost. A game marketed as Free-to-Play with the only major component cost being the expansions. It seems a little underhanded and deceptive and is not something you want to do when you want to attract new comers.
The base price of the box would have to be higher to copensate for it. No mmo does free story and content updates like this without a paywall being somewhere.
I actually think what they could do is allow players onto the new maps even if they don’t have the chapter unlocked, but don’t allow them to unlock the mastery or the unique mechanics for that map, which would make it much less fun. Yeah, you could whip around Draconis Mons if you like, but with no grapple vine? Or Bloodstone Fen without the glider skills? Or Ember Bay without the Lava Tubes? Siren’s Landing without the Shrine portals?
I tend to think that playing those maps, without those travel methods available to you, would really get people excited about actually buying them.
The only reason to revisit the nap are the currencies/ asc trinkets. If you give them that for free then it defeats the purpose of having to pay for the full exp.
IMO every1 should pay for lws1,2 and3. More money to anet, More content faster ^^
Yeah should have been like this from the start. Paid Dlc with a season pass for who ever wants that. More money to anet more content in the game.
I think the only reason they let you unlock it for free was because they were transitioning from the Season 1 model where it was free but only available for 2 weeks then it was gone forever. As much as players kept asking for permanent content and new maps I can imagine it would have been extremely controversial to suddenly start charging for it.
I assume they get enough income from their current payment model that they can justify the free period, but I’m sure if they were struggling that would be the first thing to go.
Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).
There’s a couple of different ways to look at this:
ANet’s Point of View
ANet needs to pay for new content, so they charge a nominal amount for LS chapters, $US10 max (for all chapters & maps in LS3), same as the cost of a new character.
To make the cost more attractive, the maps are also gated (along with different local map currencies that offer various benefits).
ANet would like to reward loyal players and one way they can do so is by making the LS chapters free for those who logon just once during the release period.
New Player PoV
For a new player, it can be difficult to see the logic: “I bought the game, why don’t I get the entire game?” And to be fair: the distinction is a bit arbitrary.
On the other hand, when you buy either HoT or PoF from ANet, it’s made clear that there’s an extra cost for the LS.
Alternatives to Charging for LS & Maps
The alternative is that ANet charges more for the base cost of the expacs — that doesn’t go down well with veterans, who probably spend the most RL money on gems, one of the major sources of revenue for the game.
In the end, ANet needs to accept that they are going to alienate a few people by gating maps behind the LS (& its costs). At the same time, players are going to have to accept that ANet is a business — they have to charge for more things than we’d like.
Anet could put a season pass option when you purchase an expac. As you said 10 USD for the lw as well. It can be a pop up window when you go putchase the expac.
They already offer the Season Two bundle on the purchase page when you go to buy the expansion. I’m not sure why they don’t offer Season Three Episodes 1-5, but maybe it is because Season 3 is still active, and they would have to create 2 separate bundles (Episodes 1-5 and Episodes 1-6 [later]). /shrug
Even though I already have S3 unlocked I would LOVE to see them open up those zones to everyone at some point after they have been in the game (maybe when S4 releases say). If you want to do the story you still will have to pay but it will keep the zones active and some of the people that it brings it will buy the story because they like the zone. Meanwhile people who previously unlocked it will have gotten their enjoyment from it and moved on to the current content.
Saying it is part of HOT is a cop-out. LS stuff should be treated like silverwastes and drytop and made core regions as far as access.
