Guild Wars 2

For 10 dollars a month, I don’t mind. What does that mean? Reduction in allll expansion prices after 1 year membership, constant cash shop price reductions, etc etc. look I understand that anet still makes good money…..for them to have such a big staff….they must make good money, but if you’re all sooooo caught up in their reported revenue, then that’s the solution. Pay to play with tweaks. You don’t like it?? Then don’t complain mate because that’s THE only solution.

cyn.2157:

Wrong game, mate. Guild Wars has always had no subscription fee, that’s their model, it’s their unique shtick, and that’s why so many filthy casuals keep popping gems and buying expansions. Make it a monthly fee, even a small one, and you’re going to outright lose a huge player base.

An active player who buys gems in batches a few times a year is better than a player who quits and goes to another game.

Hahahaha but why filthy?? I became a casual when I started my family….and work full time plus school…I am so busy I don’t even have friends except for maybe 2-3 who stuck around and I can’t even hangout with them. Casuals aren’t filthy lmaooo. There’s a reason why they’re casuals. Anyways you do have a very strong point. One of the main things that draw players in is how you can return at any time and pick up from where you left off. The point of the thread was to say that hey if you complain so much, then pay for a fee sort of thing, but not saying it’s a good idea to do so.

I have come to like the way GW2 is set up. No monthly fee means when work gets busy or vacation or for whatever reason I am not playing I do not feel I am wasting money or forced to feel I have to play because I piad for something.

I don’t mind paying for an X-PAC every couple years and the GEM store gets my gold when I want something and my money when I REALLY want something.

In this game, it’s up to the players to decide if they want to pay a monthly/weekly or even quarterly fee.

I might decide to buy gems for 10 bucks per month regularly, that’s a voluntary subscription fee. And why not? Others can choose to spend 20 per month on their hobby, depends on your income, the area you live in and how much other freetime activites would cost. I live in an area where a coffee to go costs 2,60 Euro average. If I bought a coffee every work day, I would spend 600 bucks per year for coffee to go. I also lived in an area where a coffee to go costs only 1,30 Euro. I have to work the same amount of time now to buy a coffee as I did when I lived in that area. The thing is that coffee prices take people’s income into account, international MMOs don’t. 10 bucks for someone living in the Bay area is less than 10 bucks for someone who lives and works in an area that’s cheaper (everywhere else ^^).

What I’m trying to say is that fixed subscription fees put lots of people at a disadvantage. A fair system would take into account where people live, like with local goods. But then you would see people complaining that someone in Spain has to pay less for the game than someone in Norway.

If people want to support the developers, they can choose to pay a monthly fee. And if they are not forced to do so, many will do it happily because they see that they get value in return.

I will not subscribe to a game for 12 or 24 months. I want to control when I pay money, and I want to be flexible with it.

I agree with all of you. Good points

Look, there’s in benefits and downsides in all models, but it’s generally bad to change a model during the run, because you will lose a base of players who came for that purpose, that base won’t be refilled 1:1 with new players.
I would’ve never played gw2 if it was 10 a month, but maybe 20-30 a year I’d have considered.

cyn.2157:

Wrong game, mate. Guild Wars has always had no subscription fee, that’s their model, it’s their unique shtick, and that’s why so many filthy casuals keep popping gems and buying expansions. Make it a monthly fee, even a small one, and you’re going to outright lose a huge player base.

An active player who buys gems in batches a few times a year is better than a player who quits and goes to another game.

then ppl will hear how good the game has gotted with all the steady flow of income and will come back to take a look ^^

when will people learn it’s physically impossible to use sarcasm on the internet.

Why not just set up auto pay for $10/month and get 800 gems monthly? Same thing as to what you’re saying =/

cyn.2157:

Wrong game, mate. Guild Wars has always had no subscription fee, that’s their model, it’s their unique shtick, and that’s why so many filthy casuals keep popping gems and buying expansions. Make it a monthly fee, even a small one, and you’re going to outright lose a huge player base.

An active player who buys gems in batches a few times a year is better than a player who quits and goes to another game.

Pretty much all of this.

Plus who’s to say “if” after it goes subscription, that it won’t eventually go P2W? If this game went subscription, there’s a majority of the player base gone, as mentioned above, but then many people would then view this game as some of other P2W games that eventually ran dry. I’d hate to have to abandon this game if it went that route with so much time invested, and I’m sure others as well.

The key points of this game and its predecessor are/were:
- No subscription to play after initial purchase to play the game(s).
- Play anytime, take a break, and come back anytime.
- Any missed goodies in the gemstore will eventually return
- If you weren’t active during a week of newly released content, a small fee will allow you to play it. Small but fair price.
- Continuous updates weekly (usually), even if very little.

I’d rather leave it at that. There’s many people (surely more) who help revenue with gemshop purchases. I don’t even want to get into numbers, but if a massive chunk of the playerbase were to get disgusted and leave because of some kind of subscription just to play, it would hit hard and really hurt both Anet and the game, then I’m sure there’d be noticeable down sizing to accommodate income.

Warcry.1596:

Why not just set up auto pay for $10/month and get 800 gems monthly? Same thing as to what you’re saying =/

But no! It’s not the same thing. In ‘ptp games’ (two healthy examples are WoW and FFxiv) you get a rewarding content for your 9-12 euros/dollars per month. And in GW2 you’ll get almost nothing. Not to mention that almost all in-game activities in GW2 are absurdly unrewarding for now. Anet makes more and more pay walls and time gates to encourage players to buy gems with real money (don’t get me wrong pls, i understand how FtP works, and i’m fine with that), but it doesn’t seem that many gw2players are very enthusiastic about this design at the present time (inc. myself: i’ve got an active subscription in ffxiv now, but i won’t buy gems in gw2, i think they’re overpriced, and you can feel free to call me cheap, i don’t mind, dear).
Long story short, you can buy an outfit or convert your 800 gems into gold (what cool stuff can you actually buy from TP for that amount of gold? it’s a rethorical question), but if you compare that to the rewards you can get in a ptp-game after a month of playtime, you’ll see the difference. And it’s huge. o/

P.S. Only wanted to mention that $10 can have a different value in another business model.
I’m sorry for my english.

Nereikia.3507:

Warcry.1596:

Why not just set up auto pay for $10/month and get 800 gems monthly? Same thing as to what you’re saying =/

But no! It’s not the same thing. In ‘ptp games’ (two healthy examples are WoW and FFxiv) you get a rewarding content for your 9-12 euros/dollars per month. And in GW2 you’ll get almost nothing. Not to mention that almost all in-game activities in GW2 are absurdly unrewarding for now. Anet makes more and more pay walls and time gates to encourage players to buy gems with real money (don’t get me wrong pls, i understand how FtP works, and i’m fine with that), but it doesn’t seem that many gw2players are very enthusiastic about this design at the present time (inc. myself: i’ve got an active subscription in ffxiv now, but i won’t buy gems in gw2, i think they’re overpriced, and you can feel free to call me cheap, i don’t mind, dear).
Long story short, you can buy an outfit or convert your 800 gems for some gold (what cool stuff can you actually buy from TP for that amount of gold? it’s a rethorical question), but if you compare that to the rewards you can get in a ptp-game after a month of playtime, you’ll see the difference. And it’s huge. o/

P.S. Only wanted to mention that $10 can have a different value in another business model.
I’m sorry for my english.

Quite the opposite
I paid for expansion AND a subscription in WoW, but the expansions felt so dead and empty. Every event was a copy-paste, really, raids and the last 3-4 story missions were all the reason to play WoW. 95% of the content is dead weight.
And in gw2 you get almost nothing? What? have you not been paying attention, you get for free: Raids, Living Story, Current Events, and in the last case, we got 5 maps, and a 6th map coming, for free

Amaimon.7823:

And in gw2 you get almost nothing? What? have you not been paying attention, you get for free: Raids, Living Story, Current Events, and in the last case, we got 5 maps, and a 6th map coming, for free

You’ll get almost nothing for 800 gold, imo. Those were my exact thoughts. Ok?

And btw if you need 5 or 6 new maps just to run through the same unworthy events with those wonderful greens and blues again, and again, and again ‘for free’, i see no problem with that: different ppl look for different rewards and have their own visions of a good content.

Amaimon.7823:

I paid for expansion AND a subscription in WoW, but the expansions felt so dead and empty.

The lfg tool in gw2, that’s what feels ‘dead and empty’, dear sir. Unfortunately.

OP! Google is your. By using it you would have discovered that this has been discussed many many many times and it is always viewed the same way. An overwhelming NO.

If there was even an inkling of that happening I’d quit immediately.

Nereikia.3507:

Amaimon.7823:

I paid for expansion AND a subscription in WoW, but the expansions felt so dead and empty.

The lfg tool in gw2, that’s what feels ‘dead and empty’, dear sir. Unfortunately.

did you forget to open it? it doesn’t show any parties until you actually select a tab

Nereikia.3507:

Amaimon.7823:

And in gw2 you get almost nothing? What? have you not been paying attention, you get for free: Raids, Living Story, Current Events, and in the last case, we got 5 maps, and a 6th map coming, for free

You’ll get almost nothing for 800 gold, imo. Those were my exact thoughts. Ok?

And btw if you need 5 or 6 new maps just to run through the same unworthy events with those wonderful greens and blues again, and again, and again ‘for free’, i see no problem with that: different ppl look for different rewards and have their own visions of a good content.

if you think an entire zone with events and story is “nothing” then I pity you, good sir, then I see there is also no point in discussing this.
“the same unworthy events”? why do you even come here if you don’t like the game. feel free to uninstall it and play something else.

Amaimon.7823:

did you forget to open it? it doesn’t show any parties until you actually select a tab

Oh, hun! Really? We can keep kidding each other, like ‘did you forget to log in to your WoW client… ?’, but that makes no sense. WoW, which has something ten times more active players than GW2, felt dead and empty to you. Ok, maybe. Let us just stop this funny off-topic chat right now.

Nereikia.3507:

Amaimon.7823:

did you forget to open it? it doesn’t show any parties until you actually select a tab

Oh, hun! Really? We can keep kidding each other, like ‘did you forget to log in to your WoW client… ?’, but that makes no sense. WoW, which has something ten times more active players than GW2, felt dead and empty to you. Ok, maybe. Let us just stop this funny off-topic chat right now.

you’re shifting the discussion without context here, I NEVER said wow had a smaller playerbase than gw2, I don’t discuss that, WoW has a larger playerbase.
The discussion was the money’s worth of content, and in my opinion, blizzard delivers very poorly when it comes to content per dollar spend. Every event in gw2 is unique and tailored to the area, with dialogue and interaction. Half the events of WoW are literal copy pastes without any context or any reason why you’re doing it. THAT was the discussion, if you change topic then yes, arguments are not going to make sense anymore.
In case you hadn’t noticed, blizzard has 1, yes ONE model, they use for everything.
ALL races individuals look identically the same, only very important NPCs get their unique looks, even named semi-important people are normal models they just make 10% larger
ALL buildings of the same type have the EXACT SAME design and layout
Really, Raids was the only unique content that didn’t feel like a repetitive grind as much as the rest of the game, and now GW2 has raids as well. And given we have more dynamic combat, I say GW2 is slowly killing WoW. If the leak is true, and we get mounts, then blizzard will have nothing left what made them stand out.
Just accept that blizzard tries to make as much money when putting as little effort as possible into a game. Pandaria was a complete flop, Legion was a good intent, but a hit and miss, WoW is well past it’s prime and living of the existing playerbase while GW2 is still rising and expanding. Whether or not GW2 will reach the same number of playerbase in the end we can only wait and see, but the forecast is pretty good.

Nereikia.3507:

Amaimon.7823:

did you forget to open it? it doesn’t show any parties until you actually select a tab

Oh, hun! Really? We can keep kidding each other, like ‘did you forget to log in to your WoW client… ?’, but that makes no sense. WoW, which has something ten times more active players than GW2, felt dead and empty to you. Ok, maybe. Let us just stop this funny off-topic chat right now.

Wow doesn’t give value for money, its legendary for slow releases, and basically has its players grinding numbers, today its +1 to dmg to hit a boss with 1 more hp – tomorrow, you grind for another +1……… $120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Amaimon.7823:

you’re shifting the discussion without context here, I NEVER said wow had a smaller playerbase than gw2, I don’t discuss that, WoW has a larger playerbase.
The discussion was the money’s worth of content.

No! It’s not me, it’s you. I’m not saying i don’t like the game. What i said was ’you can get much more for your $10 in ptp games ’, maybe you should re-read the post i quoted when i entered this thread, i dunno.

vesica tempestas.1563:

$120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Actually, without a discount now you would spend ~$120 for HoT and the locked story chapters.

Nereikia.3507:

vesica tempestas.1563:

$120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Actually, without a discount now you would spend ~$120 for HoT and the locked story chapters.

$30 for HoT +$30 for all Living Story chapters = $120?

Skittish.4539:

Nereikia.3507:

vesica tempestas.1563:

$120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Actually, without a discount now you would spend ~$120 for HoT and the locked story chapters.

$30 for HoT +$30 for all Living Story chapters = $120?

1. The keyphrase is ‘without a discount’.
2. How did you count the cost of all LS chapters? Last time i checked the full set cost 4000-5000 gems for a newcomer. Something has changed? Or am i mistaking?

Skittish.4539:

Nereikia.3507:

vesica tempestas.1563:

$120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Actually, without a discount now you would spend ~$120 for HoT and the locked story chapters.

$30 for HoT +$30 for all Living Story chapters = $120?

1. wow expansions cost money as well.
2, you get story chapters for free by simply playing, discussed to death.

Wow $120 + expansion to simply be allowed to logon.
GW2, Expansion to play anytime you want.

Nereikia.3507:

Skittish.4539:

Nereikia.3507:

vesica tempestas.1563:

$120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Actually, without a discount now you would spend ~$120 for HoT and the locked story chapters.

$30 for HoT +$30 for all Living Story chapters = $120?

1. The keyphrase is ‘without a discount’.
2. How did you count the cost of all LS chapters? Last time i checked the full set cost 4000-5000 gems for a newcomer. Something has changed? Or am i mistaking?

8 chapters in LWS2. Soon to be 6 in LWS3. 14 chapters total. 200 gems each. 2800 gems total, not counting any discounts at all.

However, the compete LWS2 pack can be bought for 1,280 gems and I’m pretty sure that discount is always around, so I have no idea why you wouldn’t count it. Add the 6 chapters for this season and the total becomes less than 2,500 gems.

Skittish.4539:

8 chapters in LWS2. Soon to be 6 in LWS3. 14 chapters total. 200 gems each. 2800 gems total, not counting any discounts at all.

Oh, thank you. For some reason i decided one should pay to unlock the basic HoT story separately. Silly me!

Nereikia.3507:

Amaimon.7823:

you’re shifting the discussion without context here, I NEVER said wow had a smaller playerbase than gw2, I don’t discuss that, WoW has a larger playerbase.
The discussion was the money’s worth of content.

No! It’s not me, it’s you. I’m not saying i don’t like the game. What i said was ’you can get much more for your $10 in ptp games ’, maybe you should re-read the post i quoted when i entered this thread, i dunno.

to which I replied: the content you get is of lower quality and usually copy pasted.
more content doesn’t equal better content. that was my argument, but I’m done, reply if you will or not, I’m done with you.

On the other hand … the episodes can be bought with gems. They are around 50g each. That is either a month of dailies or around a week of just world bosses(assuming you skip Teq).

vesica tempestas.1563:

$120 a year to simply be allowed to logon and play your characters is greedy and dated.

Nereikia.3507:

Actually, without a discount now you would spend ~$120 for HoT and the locked story chapters.

It’s $110 if you played since launch, which is closer to $25/year.

Total, If Purchasing Today: US$56 for 4.5 years worth of content.

• HoT today costs US$30.
• LS3 Ep1-4 cost 800 gems, i.e. US$10 if you aren’t willing to pay with in-game gold
• LS2 complete unlock costs 1280 gems, i.e. US$16 to purchase today, without using in-game gold.

Total, If Playing Since Launch: US$110 for 4.5 years of content.

• Original price for core game: US$60
• Original price for HoT: US$50
• Cost to unlock LS2 and LS3: 0, since we’re counting from launch and it’s free if you had a single character enter the game for 5 seconds during long period each story was ‘current’.

Nereikia.3507:

Warcry.1596:

Why not just set up auto pay for $10/month and get 800 gems monthly? Same thing as to what you’re saying =/

But no! It’s not the same thing. In ‘ptp games’ (two healthy examples are WoW and FFxiv) you get a rewarding content for your 9-12 euros/dollars per month. And in GW2 you’ll get almost nothing. Not to mention that almost all in-game activities in GW2 are absurdly unrewarding for now. Anet makes more and more pay walls and time gates to encourage players to buy gems with real money (don’t get me wrong pls, i understand how FtP works, and i’m fine with that), but it doesn’t seem that many gw2players are very enthusiastic about this design at the present time (inc. myself: i’ve got an active subscription in ffxiv now, but i won’t buy gems in gw2, i think they’re overpriced, and you can feel free to call me cheap, i don’t mind, dear).
Long story short, you can buy an outfit or convert your 800 gems into gold (what cool stuff can you actually buy from TP for that amount of gold? it’s a rethorical question), but if you compare that to the rewards you can get in a ptp-game after a month of playtime, you’ll see the difference. And it’s huge. o/

P.S. Only wanted to mention that $10 can have a different value in another business model.
I’m sorry for my english.

Funny… I played WoW during the BC/Wrath period and I recall paying the industry standard fee for Wrath as well as the monthly sub. I also recall that “free” content in between XPac’s was few and far between. in fact, it was less often than this game, now that ANet has hit its 2-3 month release cadence. I have a hard time believing that WoW is doing a better job. The best predictor of current or future performance is past performance.

I sort of agree with the OP here.
I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.
Producing and running an MMO costs roughly the same regardless of whether its P2P or F2P, and so a F2P game has to recover its costs in some other way, but they have to be recovered.
eg its not reasonable to expect an expansion for a F2P game to cost the same as an expansion for a P2P game , as the revenue helps to make up for the loss of the monthly sub.
Theres already been threads here where ppl are expecting the next expansion to cost only $20 which is utterly unrealistic.
WOWs expansions cost on average $49.99, so any expansion for a F2P game will cost at least this much if not more.
People have got to be realistic.

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I will quit playing the day P2P is announced.

Dawdler.8521:

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I read that and I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about cuz I’m not paying extra for any content past my expansion purchases.

Complementary slop is ?
$2 coke is ?
$5 premium slop is ?

I dont agree, some people have to quit the game then, because not everyone could pay $10 a month.

Some people could only play this game because it is free to play. Thats why i dislike other MMO’s that you have to pay each month. Its not for everyone anymore, i live in The Netherlands, but i know roughly 1 on the 10 households have serious debts. And i know they should not keep an eye for them out. But offering this now its to late.

But there is an different solution, cut the gold(way more) to gems convert. then most people have to pay for cosmetics. This would raise the income aswell. And arenanet is under NCsoft so i dont know for sure, but wouldnt this mean, all the money goes to NCsoft and they pay Arenanet and all the other MMO’s/games they have under their wings? (I dont know)

I’m not sure why some people think that ArenaNet actually has problems with money. They are a business at the end of the day, not a charity. If they need money, they’ll find ways to get it.

And also, more money does not necessarily equate to better content.

Adry.7512:

For 10 dollars a month, I don’t mind. What does that mean? Reduction in allll expansion prices after 1 year membership, constant cash shop price reductions, etc etc. look I understand that anet still makes good money…..for them to have such a big staff….they must make good money, but if you’re all sooooo caught up in their reported revenue, then that’s the solution. Pay to play with tweaks. You don’t like it?? Then don’t complain mate because that’s THE only solution.

Congratulations you just saved ANet a lot of money. They can fire their whole marketing department and just follow advice from forum. That has to be a good business strategy.

I’d be for a monthly sub TBH, so we can get content in a reasonable time

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I read that and I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about cuz I’m not paying extra for any content past my expansion purchases.

Complementary slop is ?
$2 coke is ?
$5 premium slop is ?

And the concept of metaphors fly over your head, wooooosh… Use your imagination.

Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire. You may not buy more than expansions – plenty buy keys, makeover kits, character slots, inventory slots, bank tabs, hell even multiple HoT accounts. They arent forced and they arent thrown out if they dont.

For people that want a monthly sub, buy gems every month. Nothing is stopping you. A subscription wouldnt give us amy more content than what Anet has amazingly achieved (dont think anyone truly expected GW2 to be alive and well 5 years on, given the stiff competition over the years… from subscription MMOs that tanked hard).

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I read that and I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about cuz I’m not paying extra for any content past my expansion purchases.

Complementary slop is ?
$2 coke is ?
$5 premium slop is ?

And the concept of metaphors fly over your head, wooooosh… Use your imagination.

Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire. You may not buy more than expansions – plenty buy keys, makeover kits, character slots, inventory slots, bank tabs, hell even multiple HoT accounts. They arent forced and they arent thrown out if they dont.

For people that want a monthly sub, buy gems every month. Nothing is stopping you. A subscription wouldnt give us amy more content than what Anet has amazingly achieved (dont think anyone truly expected GW2 to be alive and well 5 years on, given the stiff competition over the years… from subscription MMOs that tanked hard).

The metaphors have to make sense or else it doesn’t work. The other MMOs have “gemstores” selling “slop” also, including subscription MMOs. You’re describing every MMO out there and pointing out gw2 like it’s different.

Here’s WoW’s ingame store. Pets, mounts, bundled items, skins, services, etc, that they charge on top of their: buy game, pay for expansion and monthly fees.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Note the prices. Not cheaper and in some cases, way more expensive “slop”

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I read that and I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about cuz I’m not paying extra for any content past my expansion purchases.

Complementary slop is ?
$2 coke is ?
$5 premium slop is ?

And the concept of metaphors fly over your head, wooooosh… Use your imagination.

Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire. You may not buy more than expansions – plenty buy keys, makeover kits, character slots, inventory slots, bank tabs, hell even multiple HoT accounts. They arent forced and they arent thrown out if they dont.

For people that want a monthly sub, buy gems every month. Nothing is stopping you. A subscription wouldnt give us amy more content than what Anet has amazingly achieved (dont think anyone truly expected GW2 to be alive and well 5 years on, given the stiff competition over the years… from subscription MMOs that tanked hard).

The metaphors have to make sense or else it doesn’t work. The other MMOs have “gemstores” selling “slop” also, including subscription MMOs. You’re describing every MMO out there and pointing out gw2 like it’s different.

Here’s WoW’s ingame store. Pets, mounts, bundled items, skins, services, etc, that they charge on top of their: buy game, pay for expansion and monthly fees.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Note the prices. Not cheaper and in some cases, way more expensive “slop”

Comparison the two shops is just silly.

How many pets, mounts and skins does that game have for you to earn in the world?

Now how much does it have in the shop?
Pets (mini’s): 13
Mounts: 10
Helms (skins): 3

Obviously they are still making some nice money, but the size of the staff is also based on how GW2 did in the pass, and compared to that things are really low. If the next expansion sales will be disappointing, so lower as HoT, what I personally expect because of people who left and won’t come back.

Then I expect also the team to shrink as well (what also scares some people of). Simply because the game itself is then running on a smaller scope (popularity, player-base, income).

Of course P2P is not the solution. Since the release of WoW (2004) only one other new MMO has been successful with the P2P model and that was Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. Now you talk about an optional subscription but the option for an subscription already exist as nobody is stopping you from spending 10 dollar a month on this game.

The solution was to make a game that people happily play and keep playing having fun and keep having fun, tell their friends about and have them come and play as well. Then people will be spending money, being it by buying the games, spending money in the cash-shop or by paying a subscription.

Basically the model itself is the not even the issue, the way it effects a game might be. But a P2P model could work, cash-shop could work or truly B2P could work. As long as the game is fun and stays fun for the players. (Most games use a mix but have a clear focus on one of them)

However all models have it’s issues. P2P is something that might prevent people from coming to the game in the first place. Cash-shop means the game needs to sell you items, keeping them out the game making a game over-time boring or and grindy (what happed with GW2 imho) and B2P has a higher risk because you better have a good game and expansions or you might lose money (wile with the other models at least you can still milk the cow a little).

I have always been an advocate for B2P (Like GW1) because P2P is just not very popular these days and will keep many people away in the first place. And a cash-shop focused approach (like GW2) is a problem in an MMO because you are always effecting the game / game-play itself. Compromising it if you will. Exactly what imo happed with GW2 and one of the main reasons why people got bored and burned out by it.

However what they should focus on is the game, and draw their conclusions from that.

Having said that, at best they will be able to get things stable again. I don’t think it’s possible to get it back to it’s former glory, simply because to many people have left that will not be coming back.

The one to Rule.2593:

I’d be for a monthly sub TBH, so we can get content in a reasonable time

More quickly than every 2-4 months?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The metaphors have to make sense or else it doesn’t work. The other MMOs have “gemstores” selling “slop” also, including subscription MMOs. You’re describing every MMO out there and pointing out gw2 like it’s different.

Here’s WoW’s ingame store. Pets, mounts, bundled items, skins, services, etc, that they charge on top of their: buy game, pay for expansion and monthly fees.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Note the prices. Not cheaper and in some cases, way more expensive “slop”

Well I have no idea what the WoW ingame store comparison to GW2 is supposed to mean.

Please explain?

The WoW ingame store was added nine years after WoW release.

Devata.6589:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I read that and I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about cuz I’m not paying extra for any content past my expansion purchases.

Complementary slop is ?
$2 coke is ?
$5 premium slop is ?

And the concept of metaphors fly over your head, wooooosh… Use your imagination.

Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire. You may not buy more than expansions – plenty buy keys, makeover kits, character slots, inventory slots, bank tabs, hell even multiple HoT accounts. They arent forced and they arent thrown out if they dont.

For people that want a monthly sub, buy gems every month. Nothing is stopping you. A subscription wouldnt give us amy more content than what Anet has amazingly achieved (dont think anyone truly expected GW2 to be alive and well 5 years on, given the stiff competition over the years… from subscription MMOs that tanked hard).

The metaphors have to make sense or else it doesn’t work. The other MMOs have “gemstores” selling “slop” also, including subscription MMOs. You’re describing every MMO out there and pointing out gw2 like it’s different.

Here’s WoW’s ingame store. Pets, mounts, bundled items, skins, services, etc, that they charge on top of their: buy game, pay for expansion and monthly fees.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Note the prices. Not cheaper and in some cases, way more expensive “slop”

Comparison the two shops is just silly.

How many pets, mounts and skins does that game have for you to earn in the world?

Now how much does it have in the shop?
Pets (mini’s): 13
Mounts: 10
Helms (skins): 3

Nope. You’re missing the point of this discussion.

He said about the first game
hey say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying.
In this case he’s only talking about monthly subscription.

The second (gw2 example) he’s talking about gemstore items.
Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire.

Whether or not there’s a lot that people want to buy in the gemstore isn’t relevant. His analogy is comparing apples to oranges since he’s comparing a required monthly subscription to play to optional gemstore pixels.

Amaimon.7823:

Nereikia.3507:

Warcry.1596:

Why not just set up auto pay for $10/month and get 800 gems monthly? Same thing as to what you’re saying =/

But no! It’s not the same thing. In ‘ptp games’ (two healthy examples are WoW and FFxiv) you get a rewarding content for your 9-12 euros/dollars per month. And in GW2 you’ll get almost nothing. Not to mention that almost all in-game activities in GW2 are absurdly unrewarding for now. Anet makes more and more pay walls and time gates to encourage players to buy gems with real money (don’t get me wrong pls, i understand how FtP works, and i’m fine with that), but it doesn’t seem that many gw2players are very enthusiastic about this design at the present time (inc. myself: i’ve got an active subscription in ffxiv now, but i won’t buy gems in gw2, i think they’re overpriced, and you can feel free to call me cheap, i don’t mind, dear).
Long story short, you can buy an outfit or convert your 800 gems for some gold (what cool stuff can you actually buy from TP for that amount of gold? it’s a rethorical question), but if you compare that to the rewards you can get in a ptp-game after a month of playtime, you’ll see the difference. And it’s huge. o/

P.S. Only wanted to mention that $10 can have a different value in another business model.
I’m sorry for my english.

Quite the opposite
I paid for expansion AND a subscription in WoW, but the expansions felt so dead and empty. Every event was a copy-paste, really, raids and the last 3-4 story missions were all the reason to play WoW. 95% of the content is dead weight.
And in gw2 you get almost nothing? What? have you not been paying attention, you get for free: Raids, Living Story, Current Events, and in the last case, we got 5 maps, and a 6th map coming, for free

If you have to pay to have access to these, they are not really free.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Devata.6589:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

mauried.5608:

I dont want to see a monthly sub, but players have to understand that theres no such thing as a free lunch.

The difference here is that for subscription MMOs every lunch lady say “$4 for slop and a coke”. You maybe say "but I dont have that today, can I have a sandwich? " and they say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying. You are sad and your friends that wanted to sit at the table with you miss you, so they are considering not eating tomorrow because this kittening sucks and the lunch lady is mean.

The Guild Wars lunch lady however say “here’s your complementary slop!” and dump it on your plate regardless. You say “uuuuh… can I have a coke?” and they say “sure thats $2!”. As you take your seat with your friends you think “hmm maybe I should have taken the premium slop for $5 instead” and at the end they say “see you tomorrow!” and you are all guranteed to come back, if only to smacktalk and enjoy the company. Or get premium slop.

I read that and I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about cuz I’m not paying extra for any content past my expansion purchases.

Complementary slop is ?
$2 coke is ?
$5 premium slop is ?

And the concept of metaphors fly over your head, wooooosh… Use your imagination.

Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire. You may not buy more than expansions – plenty buy keys, makeover kits, character slots, inventory slots, bank tabs, hell even multiple HoT accounts. They arent forced and they arent thrown out if they dont.

For people that want a monthly sub, buy gems every month. Nothing is stopping you. A subscription wouldnt give us amy more content than what Anet has amazingly achieved (dont think anyone truly expected GW2 to be alive and well 5 years on, given the stiff competition over the years… from subscription MMOs that tanked hard).

The metaphors have to make sense or else it doesn’t work. The other MMOs have “gemstores” selling “slop” also, including subscription MMOs. You’re describing every MMO out there and pointing out gw2 like it’s different.

Here’s WoW’s ingame store. Pets, mounts, bundled items, skins, services, etc, that they charge on top of their: buy game, pay for expansion and monthly fees.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Note the prices. Not cheaper and in some cases, way more expensive “slop”

Comparison the two shops is just silly.

How many pets, mounts and skins does that game have for you to earn in the world?

Now how much does it have in the shop?
Pets (mini’s): 13
Mounts: 10
Helms (skins): 3

Nope. You’re missing the point of this discussion.

He said about the first game
hey say GTFO you are not even allowed to sit in a chair or be in the cafeteria without paying.
In this case he’s only talking about monthly subscription.

The second (gw2 example) he’s talking about gemstore items.
Its not about you, its about the gemstore ecosystem of GW2 making people want to pay for something they desire.

Whether or not there’s a lot that people want to buy in the gemstore isn’t relevant. His analogy is comparing apples to oranges since he’s comparing a required monthly subscription to play to optional gemstore pixels.

But the “making people want to pay for something they desire (from the cash-shop)” is more of a thing in a game where there is a heavy focus on a cash-shop then in a game where there is just a small focus on it.

Anyway, Then I think I miss the point of the comparison with the other store. So nevermind then.

Devata.6589:

I have always been an advocate for B2P (Like GW1) because P2P is just not very popular these days and will keep many people away in the first place. And a cash-shop focused approach (like GW2) is a problem in an MMO because you are always effecting the game / game-play itself. Compromising it if you will. Exactly what imo happed with GW2 and one of the main reasons why people got bored and burned out by it.

However what they should focus on is the game, and draw their conclusions from that.

Having said that, at best they will be able to get things stable again. I don’t think it’s possible to get it back to it’s former glory, simply because to many people have left that will not be coming back.

You know the drill … bickering with each other for 22 days :P

1 year ago you where saying the the Devs should focus on the GW1 model (faster x-packs + remove the 2 Weeks Living story > for 3 months updates)
And put rewards , behind skiled content ,so it will feel rewarding and not grind (Raids>Legendary )
And now they cant go back in their former glory ?

The commuity where whinning about the price of the x-pack + lack of content (they got used to 2week updates) + difficulty fo the PvE envoiroment

I have an idea …. why should i not ’’force’’ another player to nug another game , if he doesnt representthe community + dont have clue +change his word with every xpack ?

Devata.6589:

Comparison the two shops is just silly.

How many pets, mounts and skins does that game have for you to earn in the world?

Now how much does it have in the shop?
Pets (mini’s): 13
Mounts: 10
Helms (skins): 3

So instead of bickering that WoW is already taking 12 dollars and forces you to pay EXTRA REAL MONEY to some cosmetic is ok.
But in GW2 case where you can change gold>gems IS NOT OK ?
Have you seen from the start opf the X-packall places offer a huge amount of gold and YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO SPENT ANY MONEY IN THE GEMSTORE ….hence the lack on the real income ?

But you know .you are Devate … we must do the 22 days cycle :P