People complaining about the grind...
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It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.
Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.
Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.
The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.
If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.
What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.
If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.
Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.
Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?
For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares
They said they will add more.
Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.
They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.
The stat increase over exotics outside endless dungeons needs to go. It will destroy the game.
How is the stat increase any different from the stat increase from Rare > Exotics? If anything the difference between Rares and Exotics is a bigger problem than Exotics and Pinks.
And I’m pretty sure they announced they would release ways to acquire Pinks outside of FotM. Oh and btw, you actually craft the Pinks via Mystic Forge. And you get most of the mats outside the endless dungeon anyways so no worries there^^
The only thing you get from the dungeon is Vials and I’ve gotten like 5 vials going from lvl 1 to 6 the first day.
Rare is for under 80. Exotic stats are the cap. Once you reach 80 and get your exotic you are now on a level playing field with other lvl 80’s. This makes the game skill based.
A new tier makes the game not about skill.
Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Beserker
+67 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Critical Damage
w/ Exuisite Ruby Jewel
+ 25Power
+ 3 Critical Damage
+ 15 PrecisionTotal:
+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damagevs.
Vine of the Pale Tree (Ascended Ring)
+103 Power
+50 Precision
+8% Critical Damage
+18 Vitality
-Unused Defensive Infusion SlotPosted this on wrong thread. Anyways, I don’t know about you guys but even a +2% Critical Damage and 180 Health is a HUGE increase.
Don’t forget stats like power, crit chance and crit damage have a compounded effect as well. That’s not just +2% crit damage extra because you’re critting more often and it’s scaling up from a higher base damage.
Actually the 2% extra crit damage is not as good as it seems since it will be added to your current stats.
IE I have 56% crit damage on my guardian. 2% more crit damage is literally 1% more damage from crits.
Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Beserker
+67 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Critical Damage
w/ Exuisite Ruby Jewel
+ 25Power
+ 3 Critical Damage
+ 15 PrecisionTotal:
+92 Power
+63 Precision
+6% Critical Damagevs.
Vine of the Pale Tree (Ascended Ring)
+103 Power
+50 Precision
+8% Critical Damage
+18 Vitality
-Unused Defensive Infusion SlotPosted this on wrong thread. Anyways, I don’t know about you guys but even a +2% Critical Damage and 180 Health is a HUGE increase.
Don’t forget stats like power, crit chance and crit damage have a compounded effect as well. That’s not just +2% crit damage extra because you’re critting more often and it’s scaling up from a higher base damage.
Actually the 2% extra crit damage is not as good as it seems since it will be added to your current stats.
IE I have 56% crit damage on my guardian. 2% more crit damage is literally 1% more damage from crits.
I don’t see extra Critical Chance listed here, Precision actually went down with this comparison.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.
Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.
Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.
The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.
If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.
What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.
If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.
Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.
Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?
For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares
They said they will add more.
Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.
They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.
The stat increase over exotics outside endless dungeons needs to go. It will destroy the game.
How is the stat increase any different from the stat increase from Rare > Exotics? If anything the difference between Rares and Exotics is a bigger problem than Exotics and Pinks.
And I’m pretty sure they announced they would release ways to acquire Pinks outside of FotM. Oh and btw, you actually craft the Pinks via Mystic Forge. And you get most of the mats outside the endless dungeon anyways so no worries there^^
The only thing you get from the dungeon is Vials and I’ve gotten like 5 vials going from lvl 1 to 6 the first day.
Rare is for under 80. Exotic stats are the cap. Once you reach 80 and get your exotic you are now on a level playing field with other lvl 80’s. This makes the game skill based.
A new tier makes the game not about skill.
Well considering the new tier is a small jump in stats from the two where 3 stacks of might does more for you than ascendant gear. In addition, it only affects PvE and WvW.
And people who are good at PvE will still be good at PvE since it’s literally something as small as getting a crit off or not.
And for WvW, well WvW is more about large battles and multiman fights with lowbies and 80s and geared 80s. It’s rare gear ever comes into play and it if does, RNG plays more of a factor.
Some notes:
- It’s not 2% Critical Chance, it’s 2% Critical Damage . . . mild difference but given my criticals are around 2500-3000 from my current bow, it doesn’t seem that big a gain.
- +11 Power, dunno what that translates to in raw damage . . .
- -13 Precision, meaning LESS chance of a critical; note that I’ve heard from some stat crunchers that Precision’s affect on Critical Chance diminishes after a point.
- +18 Vitality, which is +180 Health. Nothing much to say here, I’m good . . .But comparing the two, while there’s definitely a small step up there is definitely a different arrangement of stats. Let’s see another one . . .
I already edit my post before your response. Remember that is only one ring. Assuming all accessory slots had same stats: that’s +55 Power, + 65 Precesion, + 10% to Critical Damage, and +900 health. Ascended gear already has one more stat over Exotic.
Why can’t they be obtained via WvWvW from day one?
A bigger problem is: Why can a person doing a level 35 dungeon obtain the same stat gear as from a level 80 dungeon, yet a person cannot get Ascended gear in a level 80 dungeon but can in a ‘player’ level one dungeon?
While I highly doubt any new lvl 35 can get the resources it takes to even craft Pink Gear, would it be wrong to say that Fractals rewards Skill vs Time Invested?
What’s wrong with rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in the game?
What about the people who have 3 stacks of might and ascended gear? Any difference no matter how small is to much.
It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.
Maybe your looking at it wrong? Achievements is more like reading a good book with a conclusion. Then you find out there is a sequel to the book. I look at the Achievements and figure out where to ponder in Tyria to complete my goals. Some are more repetitive, but its mostly from playing the game in a ‘normal’ sense.
Grinding is me purposely doing the same action over and over again. It’s more like me reading the back cover of a book over and over again. I did not really enjoy the book nor will I care about a sequel.
The difference is that I earn achievements by playing all contents of the game. I grind for a legendary in a specific location. I could have a legendary with 500 achievement points and not have a legendary at 15,000 achievement points.
If we hate dungeons, being forced to do them to remain competitive is a grind. sorry.
What? I started dungeons with rare gear. My first exotic dungeon set was from TA. Then with mats I had and some bought, I had my friend CRAFT me an exotic set. All other sets of armor from dungeons is my reward for grouping with friends to master the mechanics of each dungeon.
If you spent 10mins with me on Ventrilo during a dungeon run, you will know that I hate skipping content that is considered hard by the GW2 community. Of lately, I have pugged a few CoF and insisted that we defend Mag the legit way.
Most importantly is that you do not have to run dungeons to remain competitive. There is many ways to obtain exotic gear, and you don’t even have to step foot in a dungeon if you want a Legendary.
Lol, did you miss the detail that ascended gear is 20-50% better than exotic? Besides, I have zero interest in mastering the mechanics of any dungeon, lol. Why force me to do so?
For something that gives about 8 more Power/Precision, I find it hard to believe it will be 20-50% better than exotics. And by your math, that’d mean Exotics are close to 200% times better than Rares
They said they will add more.
Reset the stats and put the infusions on all exotics. Collecting Exotic and upgrading them provides much more endgame and doesn’t limit endgame to one location.
They said they will add more Ascendant Gear, not more stats.
The stat increase over exotics outside endless dungeons needs to go. It will destroy the game.
How is the stat increase any different from the stat increase from Rare > Exotics? If anything the difference between Rares and Exotics is a bigger problem than Exotics and Pinks.
And I’m pretty sure they announced they would release ways to acquire Pinks outside of FotM. Oh and btw, you actually craft the Pinks via Mystic Forge. And you get most of the mats outside the endless dungeon anyways so no worries there^^
The only thing you get from the dungeon is Vials and I’ve gotten like 5 vials going from lvl 1 to 6 the first day.
The Difference is: can you obtain Ascended gear from previous established dungeons?
And technically you can since a majority of the drops don’t even come from the Fractal itself. And let’s face it, Explorer Mode is faceroll easy. I can prolly beat Giganticus solo.
Well if they had released Fractals on day 1, would it have changed your view on Pink?
It does not matter if its majority or one single drop. If can’t run a level 35 dungeon and gain the same stats from a new dungeon, then Anet has deviated from their mission statement, simple.
The mission statement was all over the game when I can obtain as good of gear from level 35 TA instead of Arah. Arah was not based around gear, but being a good dungeoner.
And for WvW, well WvW is more about large battles and multiman fights with lowbies and 80s and geared 80s. It’s rare gear ever comes into play and it if does, RNG plays more of a factor.
No, actually tactics/strategy tend to work more than numbers and RNG damage/critical chances. Truth, that the reason certain servers are at the top is not because their gear is at least 20% cooler. They’re there because they get to the battlefields, secure themselves a foothold, and coordinate holding it.
I’m on Stormbluff Isle. A couple really good squads have ventrilo/TS chat rooms going and they organize multi-front offenses and raids on supply groups. They scout, they spot, they do all kinds of things you’d expect actual military engagements to do. They take it seriously enough when they show up that they whip a zerg into a focused force instead of a mindless rush. Sure, the commander is running around with Sunrise out but it makes him extra visible and that becomes a way to tell where he is exactly on the battlefield.
This is one reason WvW engagements get won. Not by raw statistical advantage when comparing one person to their opposing number. Because they behave like a unit, an army, and it freaking works :P
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Some notes:
- It’s not 2% Critical Chance, it’s 2% Critical Damage . . . mild difference but given my criticals are around 2500-3000 from my current bow, it doesn’t seem that big a gain.
- +11 Power, dunno what that translates to in raw damage . . .
- -13 Precision, meaning LESS chance of a critical; note that I’ve heard from some stat crunchers that Precision’s affect on Critical Chance diminishes after a point.
- +18 Vitality, which is +180 Health. Nothing much to say here, I’m good . . .But comparing the two, while there’s definitely a small step up there is definitely a different arrangement of stats. Let’s see another one . . .
I already edit my post before your response. Remember that is only one ring. Assuming all accessory slots had same stats: that’s +55 Power, + 65 Precesion, + 10% to Critical Damage, and +900 health. Ascended gear already has one more stat over Exotic.
Actually the numbers would be something like
+55 Power
-65 Precision
+10% Critical
+900 Health.
Since you lose precision and all.
Why can’t they be obtained via WvWvW from day one?
A bigger problem is: Why can a person doing a level 35 dungeon obtain the same stat gear as from a level 80 dungeon, yet a person cannot get Ascended gear in a level 80 dungeon but can in a ‘player’ level one dungeon?
While I highly doubt any new lvl 35 can get the resources it takes to even craft Pink Gear, would it be wrong to say that Fractals rewards Skill vs Time Invested?
What’s wrong with rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in the game?
That is what the Legendary Weapons were suppose to do. But the Legendary Model failed, and this is the horrible fix Anet is imposing.
Correction: Legendary is time invested.
Dungeon sets (skins) are skill.
Some notes:
- It’s not 2% Critical Chance, it’s 2% Critical Damage . . . mild difference but given my criticals are around 2500-3000 from my current bow, it doesn’t seem that big a gain.
- +11 Power, dunno what that translates to in raw damage . . .
- -13 Precision, meaning LESS chance of a critical; note that I’ve heard from some stat crunchers that Precision’s affect on Critical Chance diminishes after a point.
- +18 Vitality, which is +180 Health. Nothing much to say here, I’m good . . .But comparing the two, while there’s definitely a small step up there is definitely a different arrangement of stats. Let’s see another one . . .
I already edit my post before your response. Remember that is only one ring. Assuming all accessory slots had same stats: that’s +55 Power, + 65 Precesion, + 10% to Critical Damage, and +900 health. Ascended gear already has one more stat over Exotic.
Right, apologies.
Interesting question. Does this ring have “Unique” on it? (checks) Yes, it seems so. You can’t use two of the same ring.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
How many people do you see spamming, LFG Arah? Arah was the first panicle for skill achievement. The reward is something few have, Arah gear.
Some notes:
- It’s not 2% Critical Chance, it’s 2% Critical Damage . . . mild difference but given my criticals are around 2500-3000 from my current bow, it doesn’t seem that big a gain.
- +11 Power, dunno what that translates to in raw damage . . .
- -13 Precision, meaning LESS chance of a critical; note that I’ve heard from some stat crunchers that Precision’s affect on Critical Chance diminishes after a point.
- +18 Vitality, which is +180 Health. Nothing much to say here, I’m good . . .But comparing the two, while there’s definitely a small step up there is definitely a different arrangement of stats. Let’s see another one . . .
I already edit my post before your response. Remember that is only one ring. Assuming all accessory slots had same stats: that’s +55 Power, + 65 Precesion, + 10% to Critical Damage, and +900 health. Ascended gear already has one more stat over Exotic.
Right, apologies.
Interesting question. Does this ring have “Unique” on it? (checks) Yes, it seems so. You can’t use two of the same ring.
Aye did not see that. I guess you can just use a different “Unique” ring with a different name to still get better stats than exotics. The argument however is not the stats. The argument is the concept of Anet vs. Grind. Like I said, if it is even +0.000001% increase in any stat, it’s against Anet’s mission statement.
And technically you can since a majority of the drops don’t even come from the Fractal itself. And let’s face it, Explorer Mode is faceroll easy. I can prolly beat Giganticus solo.
Well if they had released Fractals on day 1, would it have changed your view on Pink?
It does not matter if its majority or one single drop. If can’t run a level 35 dungeon and gain the same stats from a new dungeon, then Anet has deviated from their mission statement, simple.
The mission statement was all over the game when I can obtain as good of gear from level 35 TA instead of Arah. Arah was not based around gear, but being a good dungeoner.
Well who’s to say they have deviated? Why can’t ascendant be the new exotic?
And the mission statement was more along the lines of “You won’t have to constantly grind new gear” as opposed to “You can grind the lower level stuff to get for higher level stuff”
With the game not even being out for 6 months, I’m not surprised they added a new tier.
They had originally wanted Exotics to be much harder to acquire but because of the incessant amount of crying from players and exploiting the dungeons *Cough*COF*Cough* they were forced to make exotics the new “Rares” of sorts.
Why can’t they be obtained via WvWvW from day one?
A bigger problem is: Why can a person doing a level 35 dungeon obtain the same stat gear as from a level 80 dungeon, yet a person cannot get Ascended gear in a level 80 dungeon but can in a ‘player’ level one dungeon?
While I highly doubt any new lvl 35 can get the resources it takes to even craft Pink Gear, would it be wrong to say that Fractals rewards Skill vs Time Invested?
What’s wrong with rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in the game?
That is what the Legendary Weapons were suppose to do. But the Legendary Model failed, and this is the horrible fix Anet is imposing.
Correction: Legendary is time invested.
Dungeon sets (skins) are skill.
I wouldn’t even consider dungeon sets as skill. Arah in itself is a joke at how easy it is. Giganticus Lupicus is a shadow of what he could be. When I heard people saying Subject Alpha and GL would be some of the harder boss fights, I was excited.
“Finally hard content”
Then when I attempted them both and cleared both… without even getting downed… on my first try… I was disappointed. HEAVILY.
How many people do you see spamming, LFG Arah? Arah was the first panicle for skill achievement. The reward is something few have, Arah gear.
To further this statement vs. new Grind gear. Grind is, of course, relative. However, about 23 runs In Arah will get you your full Arah set. Assuming a casual player did one Arah run a day, that’s under a Month a player can have an Arah which can showcase player and team skill.
How many months will it take a person to obtain all the ecto for Ascended gear? Last time I checked, it takes no skill to obtain ecto.
“Well who’s to say they have deviated? Why can’t ascendant be the new exotic?”
I can ask, why can’t Exotic gear stay the top tier gear?
In another posting of yours, you state that anti-agony is not needed or relative in level 20 FOTM. This implies that even level 20 FOTM is easy. Now you argue that Arah and CoE are a joke and too easy. You also argue that a player should be rewarded for skill vs. time invested. If FOTM is implied easy… then why should a player be rewarded with new gear with better stats according to your own standards? I ask this because you Argue that Ascended gear is a reward for skill vs. time invested.
Aye did not see that. I guess you can just use a different “Unique” ring with a different name to still get better stats than exotics. The argument however is not the stats. The argument is the concept of Anet vs. Grind. Like I said, if it is even +0.000001% increase in any stat, it’s against Anet’s mission statement.
Hey, NO, no moving the goalposts here. Everyone has been saying the stats are so superior they give an obvious advantage. I wanted to see the math and compare and now that I have a look, I think they actually are more powerful but suffer a bit because they don’t have the concentration of the statistics Exotics have.
This is the crux of the argument and where people are saying there’s an increase. An increase in “any stat”? Look, if the items had two statistics totaling 180 instead of three totaling 170, that’s not “simply an increase”. Do we count Magic Find instead of Precision as an increase? What about if we trade Precision for Critical Damage, or Toughness for Vitality? These ARE in fact sideways improvements . . . you trade something for something else.
The other nestled core of the argument is that you’re not ever allowed to compromise or do something even remotely against something you said. If I said “I will never watch MLP” and then I wind up sitting through an episode while babysitting . . . I compromised my vision from what you are saying, and that’s bad. If I was writing on a novel and said “it’s not my intention to have Susan die” but as I’m writing it seems to spring from the narrative? What do I do then? Start over or sigh and realize my intentions might not be the best thing for the narrative on that point.
(ON THAT POINT. Not generally, not “for every thing, throw out the guidebook and go nuts! Woo!” )
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
How many people do you see spamming, LFG Arah? Arah was the first panicle for skill achievement. The reward is something few have, Arah gear.
To further this statement vs. new Grind gear. Grind is, of course, relative. However, about 23 runs In Arah will get you your full Arah set. Assuming a casual player did one Arah run a day, that’s under a Month a player can have an Arah which can showcase player and team skill.
How many months will it take a person to obtain all the ecto for Ascended gear? Last time I checked, it takes no skill to obtain ecto.
Point taken. Though as someone who recently learned to both play the market and increase my gold gained, it’s quite surprising how easy it was for me to make 10+ gold a day with a starting value of 40 gold or so but I digress.
Even at that I still feel the original dungeons were FAR too easy. Too many people cried and complained. Whenever I do a PuG CoF 1 Exp and see people actually die at the totem part from fight 3 mobs their level, I can’t help but think “Are these the people Anet listens to? This is ridiculous. Even Vindictus was harder than this.”
But that’s my own problems. While I wont say I agree with the whole Pink Gear and how it currently is (Cuz I quite frankly think it’s stupid for what they did. As a poor college student I could do better), I will say to wait and see where this goes.
The gear wont bother me because I compensate with skill. The grind wont bother me because I compensate with learning markets.
I can see why everyone has a pitchfork over Anet, but I do think a lot of whining and crying could be spent elsewhere.
Oh and 8% increase in stats does give about 20% more total damage done overall, but that’s if you standstill and blow your DPS rotation. And let’s face it, if you’re standing still in lvl 19 fractals,you’re prolly dead already.
How many people do you see spamming, LFG Arah? Arah was the first panicle for skill achievement. The reward is something few have, Arah gear.
To further this statement vs. new Grind gear. Grind is, of course, relative. However, about 23 runs In Arah will get you your full Arah set. Assuming a casual player did one Arah run a day, that’s under a Month a player can have an Arah which can showcase player and team skill.
How many months will it take a person to obtain all the ecto for Ascended gear? Last time I checked, it takes no skill to obtain ecto.
@Tobias Trueflight.8350
The Goal of this thread is about the Grind.
“I can see why everyone has a pitchfork over Anet, but I do think a lot of whining and crying could be spent elsewhere.”
-Because Anet deviated from their mission statement
-Anet started a gated community
-LFG/M LvL ‘x’ has replaced LF Tank/Healer
-Grinding is needed even more in a game that has implemented anti-grinding
Read the Forums much?
(edited by Leonard.2867)
“Well who’s to say they have deviated? Why can’t ascendant be the new exotic?”
I can ask, why can’t Exotic gear stay the top tier gear?
In another posting of yours, you state that anti-agony is not needed or relative in level 20 FOTM. This implies that even level 20 FOTM is easy. Now you argue that Arah and CoE are a joke and too easy. You also argue that a player should be rewarded for skill vs. time invested. If FOTM is implied easy… then why should a player be rewarded with new gear with better stats according to your own standards? I ask this because you Argue that Ascended gear is a reward for skill vs. time invested.
Nah I’m here because people are blowing out how much stronger Ascendant Gear is vs Exotics. Everything else was purely cuz I am bored and wanted to see where you’d go with it.
And yeah FotM is fairly easy cept once you get past around lvl 16. Then 1 hit = death and with a group with no agony…. let’s just say getting perfect runs on bosses 3 times in a row without breaking our armor is rather hard. Is it hard mechanically? Not really. Is it artificially harder? Yeah and that’s kinda dumb.
And there’s nothing wrong with rewarding someone who’s skilled vs someone who isn’t.
While I am personally am against Time Grinds, I can see the necessity (They gotta get you to play somehow) And plus I’ve gotten good at it over the many years I played multiple MMOs.
@Tobias Trueflight.8350
The Goal of this thread is about the Grind.
And my . . . belief, position, what-have-you . . . is that the grind is a self-inflicted pursuit rather than a forced choice. And that the “vast statistical advantage” resulting from the grind is not entirely accurate.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
“Well who’s to say they have deviated? Why can’t ascendant be the new exotic?”
I can ask, why can’t Exotic gear stay the top tier gear?
In another posting of yours, you state that anti-agony is not needed or relative in level 20 FOTM. This implies that even level 20 FOTM is easy. Now you argue that Arah and CoE are a joke and too easy. You also argue that a player should be rewarded for skill vs. time invested. If FOTM is implied easy… then why should a player be rewarded with new gear with better stats according to your own standards? I ask this because you Argue that Ascended gear is a reward for skill vs. time invested.
Nah I’m here because people are blowing out how much stronger Ascendant Gear is vs Exotics. Everything else was purely cuz I am bored and wanted to see where you’d go with it.
And yeah FotM is fairly easy cept once you get past around lvl 16. Then 1 hit = death and with a group with no agony…. let’s just say getting perfect runs on bosses 3 times in a row without breaking our armor is rather hard. Is it hard mechanically? Not really. Is it artificially harder? Yeah and that’s kinda dumb.
And there’s nothing wrong with rewarding someone who’s skilled vs someone who isn’t.
While I am personally am against Time Grinds, I can see the necessity (They gotta get you to play somehow) And plus I’ve gotten good at it over the many years I played multiple MMOs.
I have played many MMOs myself but Guild Wars 2 was the one I choose. I have chosen GW2 because I loved the GW1 Model and I was dead set that the same philosophy would carry to GW2. And it did, for three months. I love the new dungeon for the content and the new skill it has to offer. I detest the Ascended gear, grind, and gated community. I am here to picket Anet like the rest. This is in hopes that Anet will continue its former philosophy. If not, then I will move on, simple as that.
@Tobias Trueflight.8350
The Goal of this thread is about the Grind.And my . . . belief, position, what-have-you . . . is that the grind is a self-inflicted pursuit rather than a forced choice. And that the “vast statistical advantage” resulting from the grind is not entirely accurate.
Like I said in another post, If I pass gas and get a couple of droppings in my pants, it is no different than taking a full fledge dump in my pants; I still pooped all over myself. It does not matter if Anet drops a few stats on us because it is no different than getting fully dumped on.
And I agree, WoW is a gear treadmill pursuit as other games are non-stop grind pursuits. That’s why I don’t play them and I play GW2.
Like I said in another post, If I pass gas and get a couple of droppings in my pants, it is no different than taking a full fledge dump in my pants; I still pooped all over myself.
Yes, it is different. You don’t see a difference but there is a vast difference from “passing gas and a little bit got out” to what I’ll just call “pudding pants” . . . something I had to endure only once and it was not pleasant at all.
They are similar in that there is going to be a certain odor. However, the drycleaner would beg to differ that one is the same as the other. And I don’t care how slick you try to make the comparison, “two plus two” does not equal “five”.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Well I’m sure if it wasn’t meant to last, millions of people wouldn’t be interested in buying it in the first place. The reason why it attracted to many players is because it promised something different. Now it’s going down the wrong route. I can tell you that if people knew about this way back, they would avoid it/have no high hopes for it.
What’s wrong with rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in the game?
Gear can be a substitute to skill. Heck, sometimes gear is more important than skill because without gear you mechanically have barely no chance to succeed and with gear you’d only need a moderate skill.
Now, I’d say rewarding skill as opposed to time invested in a game is doomed to begin with. I mean, rewarding skill with better gear is doomed. Giving better gear to someone lowers the skill level required to do stuff. So, once you get rewarded for your skills with a full set of ascended stuff, everything in the game requires a little less skill to be done. Thus the gear treadmill people complain about.
On the other hand, if skill rewards you with filling little bars and cool looking stuff, you don’t have that issue. You don’t obsolete old content through your progression.
I don’t mind grind if I’m doing something fun. I don’t mind grind locking me out of things I desire. I do not want grind to lock me out of better stats because if I’m tiered of grinding something, I can just say “forget it, that unicorn bow isn’t THAT worth the effort”. If on the other hand grind locks stats, I cannot say that because, heck, if I don’t get those stats all the other grinding I’ll be doing will be less efficient, to the point I might even be unable to access the content at all.
This is why I complain about that stupid heavy grind for gear ArenaNet is adding.
What’s the total stat difference between rare and exotic? If people are going to proclaim the complete destruction of WvW because of this stat increase lets compare it to the current state of the game. What’s the difference between an 80 in exotics and a lvl 2 in WvW?
What’s the total stat difference between rare and exotic? If people are going to proclaim the complete destruction of WvW because of this stat increase lets compare it to the current state of the game. What’s the difference between an 80 in exotics and a lvl 2 in WvW?
. . . don’t go there. I got a guy constantly insisting +20% but he won’t give me numbers to work with. The numbers I do have can be examined, debated, and held under tight scrutiny to notice they don’t exactly directly compare in some ways.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Idk must be a lot i kill everyone who isnt lvl 80 in a couple seconds? dont think i would bother with the math. I talk from experience, 5 seconds tops for anyone under 80 for me. If they let me hit them though, im meelee, people run.
When i first started mmos, i was of the camp that skill and hard work, knowledge of the class etc would always be better than gear which just gives you a minor stat increase. As i played mmos longer, i became more and more disillusioned of the whole skill > gear idea. Frankly, 90% of the time its not just gear and class balance comes into play a lot as well.
My experience in mmos has taught me those little points of stats add up. In another game, i had a +13 bow, and honestly, upgrading it to +15 wouldnt put its damage by 10%. But i did it anyway, and personally for me, the change was rather breathtaking. The whole feel was different. Not that much stats on paper, but it changes things.
And crit damage IS a big deal, people with offensive builds can get near 100% crit rate for a while. Warriors can get close to 90% crit rate no thanks to fury most of the time. Even as a guardian which isnt known for burst, i can have 90% crit rate for 10 seconds.
For people running offensive based builds in WvW. 1 point of crit damage basically equals 1 point of dps.
Im betting on ascended set giving close to +20% crit damage with full set, since i see one ring have 2% more crit damage than exotics.
To me this translates to 20% damage increase for glass cannon burst builds. When you figure in the base damage increase in weapons, and extra power and precision you get. It actually more.
You thought backstabs, hundred blades, and kill shots killing you in 3seconds is bad now? wait till they get full ascended.
Yeah, thing is, I’m not in WvW for one-on-one fights and comparisons. I’m in WvW for purely other reasons than squaring off against someone who was going to smear me. I’m not the one in front trying to lead the charge and go for four kills before I’m brought down. I’m the guy doing combat revives and running supply to the gates to delay them breaking. I’m the guy putting the Arrow Cart plan down for defensive siege, or buying a Ram to sneak in onto a gate. I’m the guy escorting Dolyaks and keeping an eye out for enemies trying to sneak around and hit supply camps.
I’ll also say it again – WvW isn’t really about two exactly matched groups meeting on the field of battle and fighting it out. It’s not about calling a duel between two warriors and may the best set of equipment win.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind, …
Stopped reading there. This might be the case for you and the other gear locusts out there that ruin every MMO but the good old GW1 community doesn’t need a grind to play the game. GW1 was/is played because it’s fun, not because there’s a grind.
I think its pretty obvious that they wanted to appeal to MORE than just the GW1 fans, a game only for GW1 fans isnt enough. If you want a solution, you need to appeal to more..this game is more expensive than GW1, they are hiring people left and right to try and keep up with their demand at the moment. So they have to appeal to many player types, not just one.
The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind, …
Stopped reading there. This might be the case for you and the other gear locusts out there that ruin every MMO but the good old GW1 community doesn’t need a grind to play the game. GW1 was/is played because it’s fun, not because there’s a grind.
I think its pretty obvious that they wanted to appeal to MORE than just the GW1 fans, a game only for GW1 fans isnt enough. If you want a solution, you need to appeal to more..this game is more expensive than GW1, they are hiring people left and right to try and keep up with their demand at the moment. So they have to appeal to many player types, not just one.
The whole Anet statement about GW2 not being GW1; GW2 is
-Action MMO
-Discarded the Trinity
-No more LFG
-Action MMO
-Dynamic Events
-Persistent World
-Action MMO
The Philosophy that transmuted from GW1 to GW2, and in the Anet Mission statement:
-Not a Grind
-Balanced play (seen via sPvP)
-Not a Grind
-Based around the Player
-Not a Grind
-6.5 Million copies of GW1 Sold, including all expansions.
-GW2 has 2 Million Copies sold under the original GW2 mission statement. Besides WoW, who has that beat?
Missing one important point. This game wasn’t marketed to the hamsters. It was marketed to everyone else. And then they went and made it so the hamsters are catered to and everyone else is left behind.
This industry just needs to move on. We’ve seen a bunch of “WoW 2.0” attempts, and
who actually wants that? Do we really want to be playing those same game mechanics for
another 5 or 10 years? -Mike O’Brien
who actually wants that? Do we really want to be playing those same game mechanics for
another 5 or 10 years? -Mike O’Brien
You can add grind and progression without adding gear checks and power creep.
For example, by adding ways to collect skins, or by adding dynamic upgrade slots that offer different stats that can’t be compared with each other, and work better if different areas.
For example:
- Add a mystic recipe that uses transmutation stones and a piece of equipment to transfer the skin to a ‘costume piece’. Exotic and higher rarity skins would require fine stones.
- Using a costume piece unlocks the costume for the account.
- Add a ‘costume tab’ in which you can select and unselect unlocked costume pieces. Click the slot, a panel like the pet selection panel appers with the skin icons, plus an X icon to unselect in that slot. Slots with a selected costume piece will cover the armor.
- Make infusions a consumable item.
- Use the item to unlock the infusion for the character. They’ll unlock in the same way PvP upgrades did in GW1: Better infusions of the same type will override lower-grade ones (e.g: One that gives 5 power and 5 agony resistance would be replaced by another that gives 10 of the same two things).
- Add a second rectangular narrow icon next to equipment slots when an ascended item is placed on it. Click on it, and another selection panel appears with all unlocked infusions. Infusions would feature stats like “+ damage/armor vs race”, “+agony resistance” and the like, that make them better than others in certain dungeons, but not better in general all over the game, and definitely not better in WvW.
- Add FotM’s level style to all dungeons, drastically reducing the difficulty
- The current upgrades would still work like now: Runes, sigils, crests, jewels, etc.
Like that, there would be progression without messing up things like now.
The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind, when you can easily get what you want there is no point to continue playing. I always thought that this game will be focused on PvP, because i don’t see a lot of players repeating DE or even dungeons all over again just for fun. There always have to be an objective to reach.
because you don t go there….
There is a reason if Jormag claw is a huge zerg night and day…..and i don t think it a couple of blue and green items.
Same goes for dungeons, so many people used to help new players with their exotics….
I mean my bank is full of dungeon tokens got helping players and yet i got all my equipment crafting (side an AC dagger due to the skin…).
So many players could prove you are wrong :/ and expecially PvE players like me…
But according to what you say, you bought the wrong game…what s the point in all mechanics like downscaling?
WvWvW also is not profitable…..
Also rewards were there in form of skin…..or do you want an unfair advantage against other players so you can prevail with less skill? (its not only wvwvw its also dungeons for example see those cries “dungeon are too easy…AC is too easy for my lvl 80 exotic guardian, please make it harder”
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind, when you can easily get what you want there is no point to continue playing.
Ok. I disagree with you, but for quite a lot of people this is obviously true. Once they get the gear they’ve been lusting after, the game is over.
Why is that a problem? Can’t people get to their personal objective and say “okay, I’m finished!”
Why do we care if they carry on playing? Why should Arenanet care? They already bought the game didn’t they? There are millions of us who don’t want a gear grind game, there are millions of us who only really care about PVP and WVW, and just see high level PVE as a fun way to make money to buy stuff in WvW… Let the people who do want gear grind go away to another game, we will still be here.
Now, with ascended gear, we’ve got the worst of both worlds. A small grind which is not really going to keep the gear grind people happy for very long, and those of us who never wanted it in the first place are leaving, and there’s a lot more of us…
Actually the numbers would be something like
+55 Power
-65 Precision
+10% Critical
+900 Health.Since you lose precision and all.
-3% crit chance vs +10%crit damage +55 power +900health … not bad i think.
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
Yeah, thing is, I’m not in WvW for one-on-one fights and comparisons. I’m in WvW for purely other reasons than squaring off against someone who was going to smear me. I’m not the one in front trying to lead the charge and go for four kills before I’m brought down. I’m the guy doing combat revives and running supply to the gates to delay them breaking. I’m the guy putting the Arrow Cart plan down for defensive siege, or buying a Ram to sneak in onto a gate. I’m the guy escorting Dolyaks and keeping an eye out for enemies trying to sneak around and hit supply camps.
I’ll also say it again – WvW isn’t really about two exactly matched groups meeting on the field of battle and fighting it out. It’s not about calling a duel between two warriors and may the best set of equipment win.
Well its fine that you want to do support and rez and rams and siege and stuff. But let me tell you this. When i started, i thought the same thing as you. I main a guardian, naturally i rolled the class because i wanted to support my team members. I wanted to build tanky, charge in the frontlines, take hits for teammates. Drop my wall of reflection and shield of avenger. Take out my staff and hammer to choke points. i wanted to stay at the back and drop my heals and let the tough guys charge in and start killing people.
yeah, i never thought i would become damage and kill obssessed when i started.
And basically what made the change in me was people like you.
What i found always in what seems like a 10 man pug. Is that half of my team are lowbies. The other half are undergeared 80s. and 2-3 people left that could actually kill anything.
I want to go support too. But when more than half of my team cant kill someone even if they afked for 10seconds. Someone has to do the dirty work, and “go for four kills before he’s brought down”.
Really, us “gear-chasers” are doing you “support” people a favor in WvW all the time preventing people from kicking your kittens. Appreciate us a bit more.
Yes and you can tell me good strategy and communication stuff wins battles. But without people like me to put all your plans into practice. You would just fail.
Gear matters.
“The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind”
And there’s where i just stopped reading.
Leader of Heroes [Hero] – Seafarers Rest
Well its fine that you want to do support and rez and rams and siege and stuff. But let me tell you this. When i started, i thought the same thing as you. I main a guardian, naturally i rolled the class because i wanted to support my team members. I wanted to build tanky, charge in the frontlines, take hits for teammates. Drop my wall of reflection and shield of avenger. Take out my staff and hammer to choke points. i wanted to stay at the back and drop my heals and let the tough guys charge in and start killing people.
yeah, i never thought i would become damage and kill obssessed when i started.
And basically what made the change in me was people like you.
What i found always in what seems like a 10 man pug. Is that half of my team are lowbies. The other half are undergeared 80s. and 2-3 people left that could actually kill anything.
I want to go support too. But when more than half of my team cant kill someone even if they afked for 10seconds. Someone has to do the dirty work, and “go for four kills before he’s brought down”.
Really, us “gear-chasers” are doing you “support” people a favor in WvW all the time preventing people from kicking your kittens. Appreciate us a bit more.
Yes and you can tell me good strategy and communication stuff wins battles. But without people like me to put all your plans into practice. You would just fail.
Gear matters.
I’m not support because my gear is bad, I’m support because I have no real hand for PvP maneuvers. I understand the theory, and I can grasp how to handle some situations, but I cannot execute well enough to actually have it matter. I could have the best gear ever and it wouldn’t change that I cannot fight for beans.
My first instinct, owing to experiences thus far, is that if I see one “Other Server Invader/Defender” then there is a high likelihood they’re not alone and it’s better to avoid conflict. (This is, partially, due to the “culling” which I won’t BEGIN to say is a fair thing and I really hope they can lessen that in the future.)
I do not engage unless there are at least 3:1 odds in my favor, because I know I am going to be minimally effective because of my habits and my inability to execute. I’m not built for damage, so I can’t take someone down in 10 seconds without an extra damage source (usually). I generally clocked it at 20 seconds, with 15 when my criticals were flowing well and the other person wasn’t fighting after the last 30% of their health, but trying to escape.
You people who are capable of fighting on the level I can’t? I do appreciate you, yet when you say “gear matters” I still think . . .
“Does it really matter as much as you think it does? Does squeezing every few points make that big of a difference on a battlefield where you are not the sole producer of damage?”
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
I totally agree with people saying that A-NET didn’t entirely followed their initial manifesto,
The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind, when you can easily get what you want there is no point to continue playing.
Actually the majority of players are casual players, we’ve seen my type of player start to game in mmo’s some years ago. Anyone worth their salt in statistics will tell you that we the casuals became interested in these games some years ago and came on the scene not for the gear grind but for the exploration of worlds, the lore, and the RP.
So you definitely do not speak for me or for the majority of the people who bought Anet’s game because of the promises of the manifesto.
That being said. They have done a 180 on their manifesto in three ways.
1: nerfing farming for crafting (DR, severely reduced rare drops, severely reduced globs, mf doesn’t work)
2: no improved drops from vets/champs, despite their claims that this is improved I have yet to get anything other then a white or grey from these larger monsters.
3: exotics and dungeons and open world events all old content now. nothing is more frustrating to not get enough people to take the camps in Orr.
These are the reasons why this community is so angry. It’s not as simple as adding a single tier of armor to a game it’s all of the other things they did prior and during to make it impossible to play.
Casuals were promised we would have a game that would have closer to horizontal progression, horizontal in this case means that all armors and weapon tiers are available via crafting. (even legendaries can be made)
Basically, how would you feel if you spent all this time farming for mats for your legendary item (assume legendary was just a regular item for this example) and then they suddenly cut off your ability to get those mats, made it so there was a new tier of item that made your legendary useless, and made it so that you could no longer craft the new tier and the only place to even get mats if they were to add this new tier to crafting is in this dungeon forcing you to play in a single way instead of having a choice?
That’s what’s happening with this game right now when it comes to farming for exotics people just can’t seem to get the mats they need and infused armors cannot be crafted and if they were to be almost all of the mats only seem to drop in the dungeons (for the items we can craft right now).
Do you see why we’re angry now?
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
(edited by tigirius.9014)
Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?
You “need” anti-agony if only to buffer your survival in case you can’t dodge in time. It’s a safety net, so you can be a little sloppy and not be wrecked.
The stats? I’m not sure. I think the +Stats are there because the Infusions may . . . may . . . be overall weaker than gemstones/runes/crests since the Agony resistance takes the place of a stat.
Agony resistance does NOT take the place of a stat.
Arenanet lies.
Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?
You “need” anti-agony if only to buffer your survival in case you can’t dodge in time. It’s a safety net, so you can be a little sloppy and not be wrecked.
The stats? I’m not sure. I think the +Stats are there because the Infusions may . . . may . . . be overall weaker than gemstones/runes/crests since the Agony resistance takes the place of a stat.
Agony resistance does NOT take the place of a stat.
. . . okay, let me clarify.
Gems have three different statistics which they affect. Infusions only have one plus Agony Resistance (thus far).
So a Gemstone (Embellished Emerald for instance) would give a better boost to what it was in. Except you can’t put it into an Ascended item, you can only put an Infusion in there. Which (thus far) is significantly weaker than the possible Gemstones you can drop into things.
Hence, it could be . . . it would be my way of design, in other words . . . that Ascended items have better raw statistics because their upgrades (Infusions) are generally weaker than upgrades for Exotics (Gemstones).
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Why can’t PvE be about having fun and enjoying content for the sake of enjoying content? Why do we have to grind?
Can I grind fun?
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
Why can’t PvE be about having fun and enjoying content for the sake of enjoying content? Why do we have to grind?
Can I grind fun?
When Lady Bird meets Papa Bird and Papa builds a nest…. then yes you can grind for fun.
Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?
You “need” anti-agony if only to buffer your survival in case you can’t dodge in time. It’s a safety net, so you can be a little sloppy and not be wrecked.
The stats? I’m not sure. I think the +Stats are there because the Infusions may . . . may . . . be overall weaker than gemstones/runes/crests since the Agony resistance takes the place of a stat.
Agony resistance does NOT take the place of a stat.
the infusions add agony resist AND more stats!
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
tigirius’s post is the best of this thread, that was my point too. their model of a dynamic world was broken from the start, and ive seen it from the beta. i guess this DE model could have been implemented better in this game, but they have chosen the easy path so they can release the game earlier.
but i have to make a few corrections about your points:
1. crafting is pure grinding in every game, i cant see it working other ways. of course the drop rates can be bigger, but this way you reach the best content too early, therefore you lose interest fast.
2. this really is a good idea, but the point in running dungeons is to be the most difficult and rewarding part of the pve. so, even if drop rates of champions in low level zones will be bigger, most people will still be running dungeons.
3. this is the main problem, too little pve content for launch date, i saw that coming from the beta, and they are trying to resolve it now.
i want to add a little thing that crossed my mind… pve is only going to last through grind for the simple reason that there is not enough human and material resource to create that much content to bring always something new to players who are playing full time. it’s only basic logic, this is where Anet screwed pre-launch.
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