Because warriors may build with extra stability, they cannot use control skills.
Because guardians may build with constant protection, they cannot build toughness.
Because thieves may build to spam evasion, they cannot dodge.
Because engineers may build with extra kit skills, they cannot weapon swap.
Because Rangers may build with the highest range, they cannot use melee.
Because Elementalists may build with extra condition clears, they cannot apply conditions.
Because Necromancers may build a minion party, they cannot party with others.
Because Mesmers may self apply any boon, they may not receive boons from others.
I don’t think anyone can deny these balance changes would be completely moronic. If not only for the fact that an entire game mechanic is being denied to each class, then almost certainly because in each case it is being denied due to potential use of an optional skillset, rather than a constant.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
I think he’s mad because engineers aren’t forced to use kits, like elementalists are forced to use attunements. Therefore, an engineer who doesn’t use kits has fewer weapon skills than other classes. Though, an engineer who refuses to use kits is about as useful as an elementalist who never swaps attunements.
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
I think he’s mad because engineers aren’t forced to use kits, like elementalists are forced to use attunements. Therefore, an engineer who doesn’t use kits has fewer weapon skills than other classes. Though, an engineer who refuses to use kits is about as useful as an elementalist who never swaps attunements.
Not every other profession is forced to use their secondary weapon. If he wants to kitten himself, it’s his fault. Arenanet have supplied the tools for him.
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
They way I look at it is thus. You lose a weapon slot, so you take a kit to make up for the lack of weapon swap. This means your down a utility, but wait what’s that there you get another 4 ability type skills in your toolbelt to make up for that. And wait also on top of that you can swap weapons as often as you like so you never really have cooldown issues.
Yeah I really do think Engineers got the raw end of the deal on weapons. sarcasm
Now if you said Gadgets were a bit iffy I think we could all agree. But I don’t really see the issue in having 1 weapon set. I often run 3 kits.. that’s 20 different 1-5 skills (OK really 18 as 3 of them are drop Medipack. but you know what I mean), that’s twice what any class other than Elementalists get (and Elementalists have limitations, I run D/D I’m stuck with melee range).
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
I think he’s mad because engineers aren’t forced to use kits, like elementalists are forced to use attunements. Therefore, an engineer who doesn’t use kits has fewer weapon skills than other classes. Though, an engineer who refuses to use kits is about as useful as an elementalist who never swaps attunements.
Hey, whaddya know, somebody who actually read the post.
The engineer will never be as capable as the remainder of the classes so long as it has a heavy and constant drawback for a light and occasional advantage. Especially when that advantage is both inferior to actual weapons, and sacrifices a skill slot.
The elementalist argument, is inapplicable. The elementalist’s extra skills are always available without exception. They do not have a drawback to every build for an advantage they receive in specific builds, they have a drawback to every build because of an inherent advantage they have in every build.
lol this is the second time today someone has mentioned ele/engis getting more weapon skills than other classes.
Long story short:
Eles NEED to switch attunements to be effective in most cases. Attunement swapping is not as versatile as some would believe (example-d/d eles do not have a ranged option from attunements)
Engis do NOT automatically have access to kits. Engineers sacrifice other utilities in the process.
Lastly it is what makes these professions unique.
(example-thief initiative “Why can this profession spam abilities without cooldowns but others can’t?”)
What makes the thief unique.
lol this is the second time today someone has mentioned ele/engis getting more weapon skills than other classes.
Long story short:
Eles NEED to switch attunements to be effective in most cases. Attunement swapping is not as versatile as some would believe (example-d/d eles do not have a ranged option from attunements)
Engis do NOT automatically have access to kits. Engineers sacrifice other utilities in the process.
Lastly it is what makes these professions unique.
(example-thief initiative “Why can this profession spam abilities without cooldowns but others can’t?”)
What makes the thief unique.
Being made of fecal matter would be unique. It would still be stupid. Being unique in a good way is the result of intelligent design, not forcibly making one thing different from another.
Engineers already have tool belt skills, turrets, and dozens of other unique niches they fill, including kits when they use them. Why should they have an inherent disadvantage while using all of these other niches because of one the devs have a bender for?
Claiming they are made unique by an ill-thought drawback applied haphazardly like a smothering blanket over every nook and cranny of the class, is beyond ridiculous.
Have to agree. And to make matters worse, they’ve broken the refined kits, one of the few things that made using kits acceptable to the loss we suffer as engineers.
I made a post some time ago explaining what they should have done with these new traited refined kit skills because what they gave us in many of these kits were weird. Like medkit having the magnetic shield for 2 seconds and EG having tiny spots of glue for 2 seconds, doesn’t really show me they were at all serious about improving these abilities at all, was sortof thrown together and thrown out there for us to live test it and then not pay attention when we complain about it.
~ toolkit should have had the shield bubble and should last at least as long as other shield bubbles do on other toons/mobs 5 seconds
~ medkit either needed an AOE heal or it needed to cast protection for 5 seconds.
~ EG should return to it’s AOE heal zone.
~ grenades work about as well as the oddly placed mines do right now. They need work to fly in front of the engineer in a 180 degree area because flying behind doesn’t help. It doesn’t help for mines either.
I really wish I was a fly on the wall over there at hq so I could see their testing process and know exactly whos doing what with this class because with each new change it seems that no one is actually playing this class to actually understand what’s wrong with it. We try to explain to them but they are just not listening and I highly doubt they are playing it to see the issues they are actually causing.
Not getting into that whole kit debate, I do have to agree with the OP that the way devs are acting around the classes, it makes it so there isn’t nearly as much build diversity.
You’ve got to see the opposite side, too: if they gave every class everything, then in the end there wouldn’t be any diversity. It’s a catch 22.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
why do every other profession other than the engineer have long range, and short range capabilities? but we’re only stuck with short range weapons or long range?
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
why do every other profession other than the engineer have long range, and short range capabilities? but we’re only stuck with short range weapons or long range?
Uh…eles? And engies never get stuck at short range.
While we’re on the subject of engineers being denied this or that, I’d personally like to see them get some signets at some point. For whatever reason, it bugs me that all classes save one have signets.
Ok, what about ANet add the weapon swap and remove the weapon kits for Engies? Would that be good?
Every class has its advantages and drawbacks. Engineers have the ability to use kits that substitute their weapon skills (making it the class that has the potential of bringing the greatest number of skills to the battlefield: 5 weapon skills + 5×5 skills if you use kits on every utility / healing / elite slot + the f1-f4 skills) but don´t have access to the weapon swap (like the Elementalist). Saying you would prefer to have access to the weapon swap because you don´t wanna use kits on utility slots is the same thing as an Ele saying he would prefer to have the weapon swap instead of the attunement swap because he doesnt use the different attunements and would prefer to swap between d/d and staff. Well, Eles dont have that option either.
So you gotta pick your class based on the pros and cons of each one of them. If you can´t live without weapon swap, well, Eles and Engies are not for you. On the other side, if you wanna be able to use the greatest number of skills at any given time, those are the top 2 classes.
Because warriors may build with extra stability, they cannot use control skills.
Because guardians may build with constant protection, they cannot build toughness.
Because thieves may build to spam evasion, they cannot dodge.
Because engineers may build with extra kit skills, they cannot weapon swap.
Because Rangers may build with the highest range, they cannot use melee.
Because Elementalists may build with extra condition clears, they cannot apply conditions.
Because Necromancers may build a minion party, they cannot party with others.
Because Mesmers may self apply any boon, they may not receive boons from others.
I don’t think anyone can deny these balance changes would be completely moronic. If not only for the fact that an entire game mechanic is being denied to each class, then almost certainly because in each case it is being denied due to potential use of an optional skillset, rather than a constant.
People who nag that engies/eles can’t swap in combat seriously should just roll a class that can.
I’m pretty sure they’re 9/10 times the ones who don’t care to learn to really play their class and blame the game instead of themselves.
Neither class NEEDS an in combat swap, they work fine as they are. There’s on reason to redo everything to change it because some people are lazy. There’s also no reason to continue to keep the complaints going.
You’re overlooking that engineers do not “lose” any utility slots by taking kits per-say.
Engineers also have their 4 utility belt slots, if you don’t intend to bring a kit, then you have 3 utilities you pick directly and 4 customisable utilities that are “linked” to their utilities. Any other class gets 3 utilities, and additional 5 fixed skills linked to their weapon.
Another point of consideration is that engineer’s primary weapons are nothing to write home about; if you’re rolling engineer and NOT using any kits, you might want to review why you are playing an engineer as this is an awful lot like when I hear mesmer’s kittening about shatters, elementalists who’d prefer to specialise in a single attunement, and rangers who don’t want a pet.
If you don’t like your classes core mechanic you may want to re-assess which class best suits you.
Imho, the problem is another. As far as the devs’ visions for the classes say, we pay the existance of kits with a reduced damage with our main weapons.
That kinda forces us to use kits, despite having all the other utilities. Technically speaking, our toolbelt mechanic should make up for that…but it really doesn’t. Apart from a couple of them, their effects are really lackluster.
Even the supposed versatility isn’t there anyway. Kits are too dependant on traits to work well. Grenades are kinda useless unless you’ve got explosives grandmaster traits. Bombs kitten your survivability unless you’ve got their grandmaster trait (and the adept, for the range). You’ve got to take juggernaut to make up for the poor damage of the flamethrower and having to fight in a near-melee range. EG has got just the recharge trait (it isn’t really a damage-dealing kit and we haven’t got any trait to increase its support capabilities). Tool kit was mostly used for the prybar.
And all of them aren’t actually that good, as far as damage go.
The only way we’re really viable, as now, is because we can stack might to make up for the poor damage we can do in normal situations. Until they nerf us. Again.
I disagree with that all about engineer. I do think we are expected to take one kit as part of our utilities yeah but what? Engineer is a class that :
- has no weapon swap by default
- can get one weapon swap per utility slot used. If you get two utilities for it, we got more swaps than all other classes except elem
- has no cooldown on weapon swap
- has a toolbelt profession mechanic that means we don’t really lose utility slots when we equip kits
All in all, I think it’s a rather nice trade off. You take a 1 kit build it gives us compared to other classes :
- 2 weapons, same as them
- 0.5s weapon swap CD compared to 10s (or 5s warriors with trait)
- 6 utilities + 1 heal. Yeah 4 of those utilities are a little weaker but it’s still more than 3 utilities + 1 heal. We trade 1 utility for 4 toolbelt utilities in the end.
You’re overlooking that engineers do not “lose” any utility slots by taking kits per-say.
Engineers also have their 4 utility belt slots, if you don’t intend to bring a kit, then you have 3 utilities you pick directly and 4 customisable utilities that are “linked” to their utilities. Any other class gets 3 utilities, and additional 5 fixed skills linked to their weapon.
Okay so by that logic they lose their class mechanic, to make up for a global drawback. Wait what? Toolbelt skills are more are at best a half of an ability, and in case you haven’t noticed kits have them too.
Ok, what about ANet add the weapon swap and remove the weapon kits for Engies? Would that be good?.
Please show me where I stated that would be a good idea. The problem isn’t kits, the problem is that engineers receive a drawback at all times because of kits, whether they use them or not. Elementalist and Engineers have the same drawback, because you can build an engineer very much like an elementalist, swapping between many skill bars. But unlike the elementalist you don’t have to, kits are only 5 utilities of 20, they are not an ever present class mechanic. And the entire class is cheapened by that potential playstyles’ drawback applying to all others.
Only the last two are really worthwhile, and yet they have some drawbacks (delayed activation in the first case, dispersion in the second – and you need them to be traited anyway for the full effect).
And these are the ones on our weapons. The ones on turrets and utilities are usually even worse, mostly because the utilities themselves are kinda weak in account on having an associated toolbelt skill.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
why do every other profession other than the engineer have long range, and short range capabilities? but we’re only stuck with short range weapons or long range?
Uh…eles? And engies never get stuck at short range.
Only the last two are really worthwhile, and yet they have some drawbacks (delayed activation in the first case, dispersion in the second – and you need them to be traited anyway for the full effect).
And these are the ones on our weapons. The ones on turrets and utilities are usually even worse, mostly because the utilities themselves are kinda weak in account on having an associated toolbelt skill.
Completely agree, throw wrench takes a secondary trait to even begin to be useful as an attack. And let’s not forget the need to use the electrical shock trait so that they’ll actually do some close-to-decent damage there. Which is worthless too if you use anything else like throwing elixirs or putting down mines, the electrical shock thing just goes anywhere it wants instead of towards the enemy/ies due to a bug they still have yet to fix after all this time. Why can’t these things autotarget the enemies and just hit things?
20 pages of bugs and design flaws and they try to fix only 1 leaving 19 untouched and in the process of “fixing” refined kits they break them some more. I mean seriously who’s actually used the tiny glue spots in EG? Name one person that’s actually got that to work and it was actually useful? Those spots are tinier then a bandage.
Another point of consideration is that engineer’s primary weapons are nothing to write home about
Not true. Engineer P/P is one of the most awesome (if not the best) weapon set to apply damaging conditions
Which is great until you see the Primary damage you do with them compared to every other profession, and conditions are useless as soon as you group up.
Engineers can have 5 different weapons at 1 time while still having 4 skills available outside of that (wich could be considdered utility), even if you don’t play with kits you still get 8 utility skills instead of 4. Seriously suck it up. (i have a 80 engineer btw)
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
I think he’s mad because engineers aren’t forced to use kits
Not every other profession is forced to use their secondary weapon. If he wants to kitten himself, it’s his fault. Arenanet have supplied the tools for him.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
If anything, eles and engies got the short end of the stick here (mostly engies). Their class mechanics just ended up being slightly more skills or skill swapping, but to get that they lost the ability to weapon swap.
Other professions got true class mechanics where they didnt have to sacrifice jack for theirs. Whats the differnce between a guardian and an engie? an engie got one more skill slot at the cost of weapon swapping.
Edit: Im only talking about class mechanics here, you know those skills that you always take no matter what build you have, not about kits, who already have damage tax to pay for instant swapping.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
why do every other profession other than the engineer have long range, and short range capabilities? but we’re only stuck with short range weapons or long range?
Uh…eles? And engies never get stuck at short range.
Guess you’ve never used pistols then.
I use them, and they have a longer range than d/d.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
If anything, eles and engies got the short end of the stick here (mostly engies). Their class mechanics just ended up being slightly more skills or skill swapping, but to get that they lost the ability to weapon swap.
Other professions got true class mechanics where they didnt have to sacrifice jack for theirs. Whats the differnce between a guardian and an engie? an engie got one more skill slot at the cost of weapon swapping.
Edit: Im only talking about class mechanics here, you know those skills that you always take no matter what build you have, not about kits, who already have damage tax to pay for instant swapping.
Like I said, every class has its drawback. As a Mesmer I can only have access to 2 weapon skills sets, while Eles have access to 4, and Engies up to 6. If you prefer a less diverse skill set but with access to weapon swap, you should be picking another class instead of Eles and Engies. It seems to me that you want to play as an Engineer while you prefer another class mechanic.
How about this: engineer weapons and kits get scaled up in power to be more comparable with other classes, but dropping a kit puts it on a 15 second cooldown, like ele attunements.
What you’re basically asking for is another available weapon set, on a class that can have access to the greatest number of skills of any profession. That’s not going to happen.
When I play my D/D ele every single time I’m trapped in melee in an unexpected encounter I kick myself and wish I’d brought my engineer that (traited) can fight at a comfortable 1050 range for everything except Blowtorch, not to mention being able to equip an elixir gun or grenades. The ranged utility weaponset you can equip for an ele is 900 range, has charges and a time limit, and cannot be traited to have better range. No, you do not have weapon swap, but unlike ele attunements you can customize which additional “weapon” skills you bring via kits as a class mechanic AND there’s no cooldown for them.
How about this: engineer weapons and kits get scaled up in power to be more comparable with other classes, but dropping a kit puts it on a 15 second cooldown, like ele attunements.
What you’re basically asking for is another available weapon set, on a class that can have access to the greatest number of skills of any profession. That’s not going to happen.
When I play my D/D ele every single time I’m trapped in melee in an unexpected encounter I kick myself and wish I’d brought my engineer that (traited) can fight at a comfortable 1050 range for everything except Blowtorch, not to mention being able to equip an elixir gun or grenades. The ranged utility weaponset you can equip for an ele is 900 range, has charges and a time limit, and cannot be traited to have better range. No, you do not have weapon swap, but unlike ele attunements you can customize which additional “weapon” skills you bring via kits as a class mechanic AND there’s no cooldown for them.
And we use up utilities to take kits with us. Also, they need heavy investment in traits to make them good. That also means that getting more kits makes the untraited ones mediocre, on top of them being already weaker simply because we could use them.Same for our main weapon. By the way, we’ve got to have a kit even if we simply want a non-projectile weapon, cause our mains are all like that.
So we’ve got mediocre weapons because we have the chance to use them, and mediocre utilities and toolbelt skills because we’ve got toolbelt skills. Wow, how convenient.
Not to talk about turrets.
If it weren’t for might-stacking builds, we would already be forgotten and buried.
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
As stated by the devs before the game was even released, engineers do not have weapon swap because of kit skills. How would tool belt skills even make any sense as an explanation anyway? Mesmers have four class mechanic skills as well, each one superior to any toolbelt skill. Why don’t they have weapon swap removed? And most toolbelt skills are a quarter of a skill slot at best, any one of them would be a laughable option for any utility or weapon slot.
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
As stated by the devs before the game was even released, engineers do not have weapon swap because of kit skills. How would that even make any sense anyway? Mesmers have four class mechanic skills as well, each one superior to any toolbelt skill. Why don’t they have weapon swap removed? And most toolbelt skills are a quarter of a utility at best, any one of them would be a laughable option for a utility slot.
Seriously, what is your point?
You create a topic complaining about engineers not having weapon swap. We point it out to you that engineers do not have weapon swap because they have access to weapon kits instead. You then complain that engineers are denied a class mechanic, and we point it out that engineers have the tool belt skills as a class mechanic. Now you are going back to engineers not having weapon swap…
If the problem is balance and you think tool belt skills are weak or useless, just be clear about it and stop walking in circles.
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
As stated by the devs before the game was even released, engineers do not have weapon swap because of kit skills. How would that even make any sense anyway? Mesmers have four class mechanic skills as well, each one superior to any toolbelt skill. Why don’t they have weapon swap removed? And most toolbelt skills are a quarter of a utility at best, any one of them would be a laughable option for a utility slot.
Seriously, what is your point?
You create a topic complaining about engineers not having weapon swap. We point it out to you that engineers do not have weapon swap because they have access to weapon kits instead. You then complain that engineers are denied a class mechanic, and we point it out that engineers have the tool belt skills as a class mechanic. Now you are going back to engineers not having weapon swap…
If the problem is balance and you think tool belt skills are weak or useless, just be clear about it and stop walking in circles.
The point is you are wrong, your claim that engineers do not have weapon swap because of toolbelt skills is false, as stated by the devs. I am not ‘speaking in circles’ because you choose to speak up about something you clearly have put little if any thought and research into.
The engineer is, in case you haven’t noticed, a single class with it’s own group of abilities, just like every other class. Abilities affect each other in the enclosed build system of each class. The engineer however has a global affect over all it’s abilities because of a single subset of abilities, to the point that there is almost no way to build effeciently. That’s called logic, one thing affects another, which further compounds upon all of the classes available content. Your failure to see that logic chain is not my fault.
It’s true that almost every respectable engineer build absolutely must have at least 1 kit. If you’re okay with that, engineers are fun. If you’re not okay with that, engineers are the worst profession in the game by a lot.
Only the last two are really worthwhile, and yet they have some drawbacks (delayed activation in the first case, dispersion in the second – and you need them to be traited anyway for the full effect).
And these are the ones on our weapons. The ones on turrets and utilities are usually even worse, mostly because the utilities themselves are kinda weak in account on having an associated toolbelt skill.
This is where “Oh you get to have extra toolbelt skills on top of kits so the class is fine” just goes straight out the window. Me on my 4th day as Engi can see how useless these skills are; anybody who claims otherwise have either never played an Engi or never uses them because they’re noobs too swamped with kit swapping.
Considering how the ENTIRE turret traits are not even working, throw wrench is personally the biggest joke of all.
It’s true that almost every respectable engineer build absolutely must have at least 1 kit. If you’re okay with that, engineers are fun. If you’re not okay with that, engineers are the worst profession in the game by a lot.
I enjoy using kits so I like playing an engineer.
Y’see I don’t see it that way at all, I love playing my engineer, but I go through build after build because not a single one ‘clicks’. They all feel inefficient and clunky to some degree or another, and some, especially those without kits, don’t just feel inefficient but very much are. I like several kits, and I use them often, Mine Kit is my favorite. And I also like several builds that do not use kits. But the class as a whole does not feel as fun as it could be would the dev team have thought of some appropriate drawback to kits rather than just copy-pasting the completely inapplicable one from the Elementalist.
You create a topic complaining about engineers not having weapon swap. We point it out to you that engineers do not have weapon swap because they have access to weapon kits instead. You then complain that engineers are denied a class mechanic, and we point it out that engineers have the tool belt skills as a class mechanic. Now you are going back to engineers not having weapon swap…
If the problem is balance and you think tool belt skills are weak or useless, just be clear about it and stop walking in circles.
The point is you are wrong, your claim that engineers do not have weapon swap because of toolbelt skills is false, as stated by the devs.
“We point it out to you that engineers do not have weapon swap because they have access to weapon kits instead.”
Engineers can have 5 different weapons at 1 time while still having 4 skills available outside of that (wich could be considdered utility), even if you don’t play with kits you still get 8 utility skills instead of 4. Seriously suck it up. (i have a 80 engineer btw)
No you don’t get 5 different weapons at one time you must switch to them like everyone else you also lose all effectiveness of your Utilities while your kits are dormant.. very few toolbelt skills are worth using and you can only use one kit at a time..
I have 80 on every profession, Ranger and Engi are my mains, doesn’t mean i don’t think Engi is inherently flawed and in need of serious over hauls..
You create a topic complaining about engineers not having weapon swap. We point it out to you that engineers do not have weapon swap because they have access to weapon kits instead. You then complain that engineers are denied a class mechanic, and we point it out that engineers have the tool belt skills as a class mechanic. Now you are going back to engineers not having weapon swap…
If the problem is balance and you think tool belt skills are weak or useless, just be clear about it and stop walking in circles.
The point is you are wrong, your claim that engineers do not have weapon swap because of toolbelt skills is false, as stated by the devs.
“We point it out to you that engineers do not have weapon swap because they have access to weapon kits instead.”
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
That’s you, in case you didn’t notice, stating that engineers do not have weapon swap because of tool belt skills, which is what I was responding to in the first place. It was your first post in this thread.
Additionally, this thread is not here for you to defend your wounded pride because you put forth neither thought nor research into your argument before posting. A moderator will shortly be removing your post and this one as well.
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
That’s you, in case you didn’t notice, stating that engineers do not have weapon swap because of tool belt skills, which is what I was responding to in the first place. It was your first post in this thread.
That was an answer to your claim that engineers dont have a class mechanic. In fact, they do: the toolbelt skills, like I have pointed out for you. Which have nothing to do with weapon swap or kits.
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
That’s you, in case you didn’t notice, stating that engineers do not have weapon swap because of tool belt skills, which is what I was responding to in the first place. It was your first post in this thread.
That was an answer to your claim that engineers dont have a class mechanic. In fact, they do: the toolbelt skills, like I have pointed out for you. Which have nothing to do with weapon swap or kits.
I never stated they don’t have a class mechanic anywhere in this entire thread, I merely stated that Kits were not it, which they aren’t. Ipso facto, my opening point, that engineers receive a permanent drawback for a temporary mechanic, still stands. Your point, that the drawback is justifiable because of their existing class mechanic, is still invalid.
The difference is Engineer’s kits count as other weapon abilities. Similar to Elementalist and attunement, they unlock whole new weapon abilities.
If anything, both Elementalists & Engineers get 4 (or 5 including med kit) weapons, so if anything all other professions should be able to cycle through 4 sets.
Why do these professions get 20 weapon skills to play around with but others only get 10?
If anything, eles and engies got the short end of the stick here (mostly engies). Their class mechanics just ended up being slightly more skills or skill swapping, but to get that they lost the ability to weapon swap.
Other professions got true class mechanics where they didnt have to sacrifice jack for theirs. Whats the differnce between a guardian and an engie? an engie got one more skill slot at the cost of weapon swapping.
Edit: Im only talking about class mechanics here, you know those skills that you always take no matter what build you have, not about kits, who already have damage tax to pay for instant swapping.
Are you really saying the ranger doesn’t have to sacrifice anything for his profession mechanic? Really? When a pet is expected to do X amount of your damage, and they die too fast (or get you killed because of bad AI). Some of this was only fixed in the last major patch.
And how about necros. Their class mechanic is deathshroud. If you don’t spec into it, it isn’t much at all. If you do spec into it, you cant’ spec into other things. In fact, I think the necro attributes may be the worst designed in a game, because minions are spread across mulitple attributes, conditions are, everything is just so….disorganized. It’s a pretty bad deal necros got over all.
Everyone’s problem seems worse to them…but other professions have feelings too. lol
It’s true that almost every respectable engineer build absolutely must have at least 1 kit. If you’re okay with that, engineers are fun. If you’re not okay with that, engineers are the worst profession in the game by a lot.
I enjoy using kits so I like playing an engineer.
Y’see I don’t see it that way at all, I love playing my engineer, but I go through build after build because not a single one ‘clicks’. They all feel inefficient and clunky to some degree or another, and some, especially those without kits, don’t just feel inefficient but very much are. I like several kits, and I use them often, Mine Kit is my favorite. And I also like several builds that do not use kits. But the class as a whole does not feel as fun as it could be would the dev team have thought of some appropriate drawback to kits rather than just copy-pasting the completely inapplicable one from the Elementalist.
I wasn’t disagreeing at all. It’s why almost every useful engineer build has a kit or two.
Every engineer build is inefficient because it’s a high APM playstyle, for the reasons you described. By definition, it will take more work for the same results. At the moment, I can’t see any realistic way to change that. We shouldn’t hold our breath for total overhauls when there are still so many simple bugfixes that no one has gotten around to yet. And besides, it’s already fun this way! I have a hard time playing alts because of being restricted to just a few skills at a time on most professions.
On my ele, I get 4 weapon swaps on a low CD and a full utility bar of stun breakers. On my engi, I have 5 weapon swaps on lower CD, and what do I have to make up for my lost utility slots? F1-F4 abilities, which I can’t customize. Want a decent escape mechanic on an engi? That will cost you a weapon swap. Want to use elixirs, one of the best DPS builds atm? You probably wont have more than 3 weapon swaps.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my engi in wvw/pvp, but I still think kits need a little something else to make them balanced with ele attunment swapping.
