Guild Wars 2

Please make a Permanent Upgrade Extractor for sale on the BLTC. That product would actually be worth buying. Thanks.

I would see this being possible with a fee (1s per use, perhaps) or giving upgrades a BoE status.

Yeah, I’m fine with a 1s fee.

I agree that currently the Upgrade Extractor isn’t worth it’s cost in gems at all. Some of the runes I put into unsalvageable armor are really expensive, mostly in the 8-12 gold/each range. Even with that high cost, it’s less expensive to just replace that rune and discard the old rune than to spend 2-3x more buying an Upgrade Extractor.

I seriously doubt that A-net thought the cost of this item through enough, as anyone with the simplest of math skills can figure out that the Upgrade Extractor isn’t worth the cost by a large, almost comical margin.

Not going to happen for 1s per use. The black lion kit is 300 gems which is equivalent roughly to 30g for 25 uses and will guarantee a upgrade extract although destroy the item (about a little more than 1g per use).

Anet will probably release a “Gold-Feed-Extractor” following the pattern of the copper/silver salvage kit. And it will probably “eat” 1-2g per extract.

Stars.2179:

Not going to happen for 1s per use. The black lion kit is 300 gems which is equivalent roughly to 30g for 25 uses and will guarantee a upgrade extract although destroy the item (about a little more than 1g per use).

Anet will probably release a “Gold-Feed-Extractor” following the pattern of the copper/silver salvage kit. And it will probably “eat” 1-2g per extract.

The concern here mostly is the current engame gear. Ascended. Which the BLSK is completely useless on.
This is why the extractor was even created. For such gear as in the current state, salvage kits cannot remove anything from Karma, badges, certain special gear (usually obtained through story or levels) and Ascended.

Salvaging normally had other benefits that came with the price tag besides the sigil/rune. Such as ectos, dark matter in exotics and inscriptions in certian gear which usually added a bit of profit. Whereas this extractor gets none of those benefits.

It should not be a gem required item.

The item should be in the game.

Mystic Forge type or NPC that removes upgrades. Can remove any player upgrade. Can not remove runes that were initially in karma armor. Can remove player upgrades from Karma and WvW gear.

Real suggestion: Remove the runes from Karma armor and alleviate this issue all together.

Upgrade extractor isn’t there for runes. Its there for high-end agony infusions (Like +10, +15..). Still, I don’t find it worth.

GOSU.9574:

It should not be a gem required item.

The item should be in the game.

You do know that you could just obtain the gold in the game, then convert it to gems instead; right? There’s no difference between earning gold to buy an item from an NPC and earning gold to convert to gems to buy an item from the gem store.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

GOSU.9574:

It should not be a gem required item.

The item should be in the game.

You do know that you could just obtain the gold in the game, then convert it to gems instead; right? There’s no difference between earning gold to buy an item from an NPC and earning gold to convert to gems to buy an item from the gem store.

Since gem cost is very floating thing, his arguments isn’t that unvalid. But still, its not a in-game thing. Its just a convenince (As much as boosters are), so it just fits perfect in gem store.

i think if we get perma xtractor, we lose a point in making a legendary. ( if it’s rune your after )

Zygomaticus.7469:

i think if we get perma xtractor, we lose a point in making a legendary. ( if it’s rune your after )

What are you talking about? Legendary have permanent STATS swappable. Not runes.

ohhhhhhhhhhhh i thought runes can be changed also. XD sorry haha

that’s why I place “i think” well what I thought, was wrong haha my bad.

I remember in GW1 how a salvage kit would remove runes from hero armor without destroying the armor. I’m just looking for more convenience, and something that is worth my money. And I’m willing to pay real-world money for it. I think whatever they come up with as a fee, it’s fine. I’m looking for a better deal than we have now (of course), but something that lasts.

Upgrade Extractors seem like they should be a merchant/craft-able item, the original Guild Wars had perfect salvage kits which you could obtain in-game.

LOL! I was just going to buy an Upgrade Extractor myself when I found out it was one use only. XD

I want this x1000000000000000

I rather doubt they want this to be a common thing. Blowing gold on replacing your runes and buying extractors is likely intended to sink some of your resources.

100% would buy… Even if it was priced at 4k gems maybe a bit more..

100 percent would buy.

It wouldnt happen without Anet making it bind runes, sigils, and infusions upon removal. Frankly a lot of the “why cant this have multiple uses” threads are just shell arguments by people wanting to use it to make money without understanding, or caring, the massive impact on the market it would have.

Yes please, I don’t mind paying 1g for extracted upgrade, especially if said upgrade is worth 6-14g (even if it is to become account bound as result of extraction, which is frankly a must for this type of item).

Paying ~6g to transfer runes to different gear is a whole lot better than paying 6*6g or in some cases a lot more by wasting the existing runes. Also would make stat swapping ascended gear using the new MF system a lot more appealing.

This will never happen because they never balance anything around gold/gem ratio.

It would also affect alot of markets in the game economy.

If the would lower the price of the extractor to maybe 5g in gems, everybody would convert gold to gems, buy the extractor and extract runes worth more than 5g.
This would go on until the gem price goes up and prices for the expensive upgrades go to down. They would basically hard cap the price of upgrades, which will make crafting many of them worthless, resulting in completely removing material sinks for the crafting mats.

Not getting your upgrade components off unsalvageable gear is an INTENDED sink for them, otherwise they wouldnt be destroyed anymore, while constantly getting new supply in from the forge, salvaged from exotic drops or crafted.

Wanze.8410:

Not getting your upgrade components off unsalvageable gear is an INTENDED sink for them, otherwise they wouldnt be destroyed anymore, while constantly getting new supply in from the forge, salvaged from exotic drops or crafted.

Would like to point out that there actually wasn’t any unsalvageable gear immediately after launch as far as I am aware… the primary reason they became a thing was to restrict karma to gold conversion when they realized that there weren’t nearly enough karma sinks (and arguably now there are even less).

In short it is or at least was not so much about upgrades but ultimately about ectoplasm (back then ectos were supposed to be what dark matter is now in my opinion) and crafting materials, I haven’t got the data to support this but if anything the way upgrades slot in to the economy right now is an after effect of rather than a cause for unsalvageable gear. The trade off for retrieving upgrades was always intended to be loosing the item they were used on (plus that it wasn’t guaranteed even then, excluding BL kits).

babazhook.6805:

100 percent would buy.

I agree 100%. If it was a permanent item it would be worth buying.

Would love to see one as long as it wasn’t too expensive per use, really miss the perfect salvage kits from GW1.

Crise.9401:

Wanze.8410:

Not getting your upgrade components off unsalvageable gear is an INTENDED sink for them, otherwise they wouldnt be destroyed anymore, while constantly getting new supply in from the forge, salvaged from exotic drops or crafted.

Would like to point out that there actually wasn’t any unsalvageable gear immediately after launch as far as I am aware… the primary reason they became a thing was to restrict karma to gold conversion when they realized that there weren’t nearly enough karma sinks (and arguably now there are even less).

In short it is or at least was not so much about upgrades but ultimately about ectoplasm (back then ectos were supposed to be what dark matter is now in my opinion) and crafting materials, I haven’t got the data to support this but if anything the way upgrades slot in to the economy right now is an after effect of rather than a cause for unsalvageable gear. The trade off for retrieving upgrades was always intended to be loosing the item they were used on (plus that it wasn’t guaranteed even then, excluding BL kits).

Temple armor was in game since launch, as far as i am aware and they were never salvageable. It didnt matter that much at that time though, as until the wardrobe changes, you could just transmute your temple gear to something salvageable and retrieve the rune/sigil.

I think John Smith mentioned once, that they thought that upgrade components in general would be destroyed at a higher volume. They disabled the option to forge exotic runes/sigils into a new one because is basically crippled the crafting market.

Basically, what people want is to buy a rune set once and be able to use it on any armor set or be able to transfer it to a new one (when they change stats or upgrade from exotic to ascended). While understand that sentiment, its simply not feasable for the economy and the game balance itself.

It would change the economy by removing mats sinks for the upgrade components itself and their crafting components.
Now many people would argue that the high price for some upgrade components (usually the popular ones) is counterproductive to build diversity, as many players cant afford to try new builds.
I disagree. If everybody could run popular builds with little investment, those builds would be all we see and the meta would become even more boring.
Now people might try out cheaper alternatives and the more popular some builds get, the more expensive their components will get.
I am ok, if people have to pay more for popular builds and get rewarded for creating alternative cheaper builds.

Anyways, in the long run, i think Anet will move upgrade components to be an account unlock, similar to stat swap on leggies. If only legendary gear or also ascended or exotic gear will be able to choose from your personal upgrade library remains to be seen.
However, I am not sure, if they are already working on this or not so it might take another year until we see this.
But I am quite sure, that they will not lower the price for the upgrade extractor, introduce a permanent one or make upgrades from unsalvageable gear retrieveable by any other means.

Wanze.8410:

Temple armor was in game since launch, as far as i am aware and they were never salvageable. It didnt matter that much at that time though, as until the wardrobe changes, you could just transmute your temple gear to something salvageable and retrieve the rune/sigil.

I concede the temple armor were not salvageable, but like you said they might as well have been. It’s been three years, all I remember was there wasn’t a real demand for extracting upgrades without destroying the item until they started to make all karma, WvW and Order gear unable to be salvaged and then later when Ascended gear became a thing. In other words, back then being unable to salvage something was an exception specific to few armor sets now it has become a fact that affects everyone due to the nature of Ascended gear. The whole karma weapon exploit back then was what initially caused them to make more and more items unable to be salvaged if I recall correctly.

By the way, can dungeon armor still be salvaged or is it in the same category as all the other vendor purchasable exotics and rares?

Edit: for the record, the buy once mentality would probably only affect a minor subset of runes and sigils (ie. Strength runes for example), and only until the reduced demand would normalize the price to be more reasonable. Because the process of stripping and re-applying in upgrades would always be a bigger inconvenience than having two gear sets still.

as long as it account binds the item extracted it’s hard to see how this could significantly mess up the economy.

Crise.9401:

Wanze.8410:

Temple armor was in game since launch, as far as i am aware and they were never salvageable. It didnt matter that much at that time though, as until the wardrobe changes, you could just transmute your temple gear to something salvageable and retrieve the rune/sigil.

I concede the temple armor were not salvageable, but like you said they might as well have been. It’s been three years, all I remember was there wasn’t a real demand for extracting upgrades without destroying the item until they started to make all karma, WvW and Order gear unable to be salvaged and then later when Ascended gear became a thing. In other words, back then being unable to salvage something was an exception specific to few armor sets now it has become a fact that affects everyone due to the nature of Ascended gear. The whole karma weapon exploit back then was what initially caused them to make more and more items unable to be salvaged if I recall correctly.

By the way, can dungeon armor still be salvaged or is it in the same category as all the other vendor purchasable exotics and rares?

Dungeon armor can be salvaged. And the demand for extracting upgrades just came around when you couldnt simply transmute your gear anymore with the wardrobe upgrade. Before that, we would simply transmute our temple armor piece with our newely crafted ascended piece, choose the stats from ascended and the rune from the temple gear and whatever skin you like better. Various vendor gear was unsalvageable way before that.

Narrrz.7532:

as long as it account binds the item extracted it’s hard to see how this could significantly mess up the economy.

Its easy, if you get an account bound item back, you might not be able to sell it, so you dont add new supply, but you also dont need to buy a new one, so you dont add to demand, as you do now.

Wanze.8410:

Dungeon armor can be salvaged. And the demand for extracting upgrades just came around when you couldnt simply transmute your gear anymore with the wardrobe upgrade. Before that, we would simply transmute our temple armor piece with our newely crafted ascended piece, choose the stats from ascended and the rune from the temple gear and whatever skin you like better. Various vendor gear was unsalvageable way before that.

My point about the inability to salvage things being an exception before and now a norm still stands though. They started restricting salvaging first due to various unintended currency conversion methods (this of course including upgrades as medium but the primary vessels back then were ectos and rare mats).

Crise.9401:

Wanze.8410:

Dungeon armor can be salvaged. And the demand for extracting upgrades just came around when you couldnt simply transmute your gear anymore with the wardrobe upgrade. Before that, we would simply transmute our temple armor piece with our newely crafted ascended piece, choose the stats from ascended and the rune from the temple gear and whatever skin you like better. Various vendor gear was unsalvageable way before that.

My point about the inability to salvage things being an exception before and now a norm still stands though. They started restricting salvaging first due to various unintended currency conversion methods (this of course including upgrades as medium but the primary vessels back then were ectos and rare mats).

Rare mats cant be salvaged though.

Wanze.8410:

Rare mats cant be salvaged though.

Well by rare I meant what salvage kits refer to as “chance to salvage rarer materials” obviously in this context.

The character customization is one of the best features of this incredible game.
But, runes and sigils stand as an obvious flaw to the ease and freedom of switching builds, which severely restrains what each character can do in a particular group.

For 5000 gems you can get 25 extractors, this means you can change your armor by itself 5 times or your armor & weapons together at least 3 times.
Or, you can grind for a second set of slotted ascended gear and freely switch builds whenever you want and in 1/10th the time.
The choice between the two is obvious and many would prefer to go through the effort of creating a second or third set as a result.
After all, it does not seem a good idea to spend around $60 to be able to change something a couple of times and then spend $60 dollars again to do it a couple more times.

But having said that, though I would never purchase a disposable upgrade extractor, I would gladly pay for a permanent extractor that uses 1G for each use.
This would definitely be worth it in my book and I would gladly spend money for it.

Please consider implementing something like this, it would greatly be appreciated.

Consider Superior Rune of Leadership. Full set of 6 is 12 gold and 600 crystalline ore, or 12 gold and 450 Proof of Heroics. And it is account bound on acquire. That is a lot of grinding in either Dragon Stand or WvW for a set. So what is one supposed to do when the meta changes and now my chrono needs a different armor stat? Even with all the other grinding that I have to do in the game, I don’t mind grinding it out for the first set of runes that I’m never going to replace. But if Anet is going to push out a balance patch every 3 to 4 months, then I’m POTENTIALLY looking at the same grind every 3 to 4 months because their balance patch caused the meta to shift.

To my mind, there seem to be a couple of ways to fix this, the permanent upgrade extractor, or, and I like this one better, give Miyani the ability to reapply lost runes to ascended armor that was just stat-swapped in the mystic forge AND the ability to move runes from one set of armor to a new set.

Lastly…SWAP SOULBOUND TO ACCOUNTBOUND for unique, once per account items. Like Mistward Armor. Just a pet peeve of mine.

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