Personal storylines and Invulnerable mobs.

Personal storylines and Invulnerable mobs.

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Posted by: mauried.5608

mauried.5608

Ive been finding this problem numerous times going thru all the various storylines in the game, and basically you find an invulnerable mob you have to kill to progress the storyline.
Theres little to no information provided by the game to help you, and Ive been having to resort to Utube videos of previous players who have recorded what they did to get the storyline to progress.
This to me seems a bizarre way to design a game , and is really just a band aid fix to get you thru this part of the story so you can move on to the next part.
You have no idea of why you are doing what you are doing, other than this is whats needed to progress.
Surely a sensible solution would be to get some kind of ingame hint of what to do when trying to attack invulnerable mobs, rather than having to go outside the game to 3rd party web sites for hints.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Why should Anet provide this if someone is already doing a superior job doing it for them? That’s a completely sensible solution if you ask me.

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

It is a puzzle. The mob is not invulnerable. Your job is to figure out why and counter it.

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Posted by: mauried.5608

mauried.5608

Easier said than done.
How long should a fight take whilst the player explores every possible option to figure out something thats simply not explained.
How many hours is reasonable?
This is the first MMO Ive ever played that required me to have to go to 3rd party web sites to learn how to play the game.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

It’s the first and I doubt it will be the last either .. it’s becoming more common actually. Better get used to it if anything.

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Posted by: TheLordQ.1857

TheLordQ.1857

What is an example of a mob you couldn’t determine how to kill?

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Yeah. It would have been nice to have a clue. Thankfully the mob stood there while I tried this and tried that (which actually was sort of immersion breaking) till I finally gave up and googled it. A hint somewhere in game would have been better than going off to the side and opening up Google in the middle of the storyline.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Tekoneiric.6817

Tekoneiric.6817

What gets me is that ANet’s people have such good imaginations yet they resort to cheap grind and repeat boss scenarios at the end of the story chain. HoT is that way and so is LWS3. While it is fun trying to figure out how to do something but doing the same grind over and over and over is very boring and tiring especially on the long story instances they want to put at the end. Of course you can’t save your place in it and come back when your rested to finish it. I’m sure there are a lot of people who lack the endurance to grind thru those long end story instances.

I finished the LWS3 one but still haven’t finished the end one for HoT. I had to abort my first attempt because I ran out of time and had life to deal with.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

What mobs are invulnerable? I finished the stories solo, except for Arah a long time ago, and I don’t remember such. I certainly never Googled or Youtubed. I may or may not have consulted the Wiki, but if so, it was long ago.

Are you referring to something recent?

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

What mobs are invulnerable? I finished the stories solo, except for Arah a long time ago, and I don’t remember such. I certainly never Googled or Youtubed. I may or may not have consulted the Wiki, but if so, it was long ago.

Are you referring to something recent?

The one I’m referring to was this Living Story. The final episode had you using the special skill to break the mobs invulnerability, but no instructions on how to use the skill.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

The one I’m referring to was this Living Story. The final episode had you using the special skill to break the mobs invulnerability, but no instructions on how to use the skill.

There’s a small tutorial just before the boss where the NPCs talk about what to do.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

The one I’m referring to was this Living Story. The final episode had you using the special skill to break the mobs invulnerability, but no instructions on how to use the skill.

There’s a small tutorial just before the boss where the NPCs talk about what to do.

What? A tutorial? Which NPCs?

Anyway, I’m talking about mobs before the boss.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

The one I’m referring to was this Living Story. The final episode had you using the special skill to break the mobs invulnerability, but no instructions on how to use the skill.

There’s a small tutorial just before the boss where the NPCs talk about what to do.

What? A tutorial? Which NPCs?

Anyway, I’m talking about mobs before the boss.

After you use the skill on the first crystal (the first one in the traps) Marjory says something about "inversing spell effects ", i also believe canach says something about using the effect to break the invulnerability (or it says so in the top right corner). Cant remember the actual words, for me it was clear:
got something new => mobs with a new invulnerability => prob have to use my new skill somehow => keep trying different uses till one succeeds.

edit: found the lines in the wiki:
(after the first crystal)

Marjory Delaqua: Interesting. Countering the magic of these bloodstones returns whatever magical properties it absorbed.
Marjory Delaqua: I know a certain big-eared asura who’d love to be here to study this…

(at the elementals)
Canach: Perfect. Shields.
Rytlock Brimstone: How do we bring them down?
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Canach: If the commander is right about Caudecus absorbing bloodstone magic, that may prove handy.

(edited by Bohantopa.5729)

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

I have to agree, this was a bit anoying. Personally it took me a couple of minutes to figure out what to do especially since the shield doesn’t come immediately off even if you do the “correct” action.

That being said, I think the bigger problem is that Arenanet has started using the special action button command more where you get to activate a limited time skill. This was already done in some of the raid fights so people with experience there knew where to look or what to watch out for.

I’m all for encounter specific design but a proper tutorial so players can get accustomed to this action might be nice. My guess is quite a few people will miss the button showing up and might not even have it keybound which does not help the entire situation. Maybe a small text hint could leviate this issue.

That being said, guides for new content appear within hours of release. It is unfortunate if this breaks immersion for some players, but it serves as a steping stone and help players progress. The new love for wild teleportation and condition spamming mobs was far more anoying.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

The one I’m referring to was this Living Story. The final episode had you using the special skill to break the mobs invulnerability, but no instructions on how to use the skill.

There’s a small tutorial just before the boss where the NPCs talk about what to do.

What? A tutorial? Which NPCs?

Anyway, I’m talking about mobs before the boss.

After you use the skill on the first crystal (the first one in the traps) Marjory says something about "inversing spell effects ", i also believe canach says something about using the effect to break the invulnerability (or it says so in the top right corner). Cant remember the actual words, for me it was clear:
got something new => mobs with a new invulnerability => prob have to use my new skill somehow => keep trying different uses till one succeeds.

edit: found the lines in the wiki:
(after the first crystal)

Marjory Delaqua: Interesting. Countering the magic of these bloodstones returns whatever magical properties it absorbed.
Marjory Delaqua: I know a certain big-eared asura who’d love to be here to study this…

(at the elementals)
Canach: Perfect. Shields.
Rytlock Brimstone: How do we bring them down?
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Canach: If the commander is right about Caudecus absorbing bloodstone magic, that may prove handy.

Yeah. I knew you were supposed to do something with them. Like I said on my post above I spend some time doing different things trying to figure it out until I gave up and googled it.

It was just annoying. I had never seen the special action skill before when it suddenly appeared on my UI. I knew I was getting some sort of new skill at some point so when I saw the icon I figured that was it. However I had no idea there was a keybind for it since I’ve never raided. (It was only from reading Cyninja’s post above that I even know that it is from doing raids). I was having to turn off action camera, hit the icon with my mouse, turn action camera back on and try to figure out what to do with it before the skill ended. Then repeat after each failure.

If they’re going to put mechanics from content that’s only played by some players into the story line where people may never have encountered these things before and are often playing solo, then they need to explain it clearly beforehand. Suddenly presenting players with a new skill that needs a keybind to be effective and not explaining that at all so that people even realize there is a brand new skill up there, and giving vague instructions to “do something with it” in a soloable story line is very poor. There should only be one new thing presented to players at a time. Not two unexplained new things for them to figure out.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

Yeah. I knew you were supposed to do something with them. Like I said on my post above I spend some time doing different things trying to figure it out until I gave up and googled it.

It was just annoying. I had never seen the special action skill before when it suddenly appeared on my UI. I knew I was getting some sort of new skill at some point so when I saw the icon I figured that was it. However I had no idea there was a keybind for it since I’ve never raided. I was having to turn off action camera, hit the icon with my mouse, turn action camera back on and try to figure out what to do with it before the skill ended. Then repeat after each failure.

If they’re going to put mechanics from content that’s only played by some players into the story line where people may never have encountered these things before and are often playing solo, then they need to explain it clearly beforehand. Suddenly presenting players with a new skill that needs a keybind to be effective and not explaining that at all so that people even realize there is a brand new skill up there, and giving vague instructions to “do something with it” in a soloable story line is very poor. There should only be one new thing presented to players at a time. Not two unexplained new things for them to figure out.

I dont believe that the “special action” was specifically designed for raids, just that it was introduced in them first. At the beginning it was also a surprise for most raiders as a “special action” was not mentioned anywhere.
Now if you read the new mastery description it specifially states “special action skill” which gives a hint that it is something that needs to be activated to use. It also has a standard keybinding (the key right of the “0” key i believe, “ß” on german layout)

The information exists, it’s not really hidden, it is just not emphasized. I prefer it this way, I hate all these tutorials with big arrows pointing to something on my screen.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Yeah. I knew you were supposed to do something with them. Like I said on my post above I spend some time doing different things trying to figure it out until I gave up and googled it.

It was just annoying. I had never seen the special action skill before when it suddenly appeared on my UI. I knew I was getting some sort of new skill at some point so when I saw the icon I figured that was it. However I had no idea there was a keybind for it since I’ve never raided. I was having to turn off action camera, hit the icon with my mouse, turn action camera back on and try to figure out what to do with it before the skill ended. Then repeat after each failure.

If they’re going to put mechanics from content that’s only played by some players into the story line where people may never have encountered these things before and are often playing solo, then they need to explain it clearly beforehand. Suddenly presenting players with a new skill that needs a keybind to be effective and not explaining that at all so that people even realize there is a brand new skill up there, and giving vague instructions to “do something with it” in a soloable story line is very poor. There should only be one new thing presented to players at a time. Not two unexplained new things for them to figure out.

I dont believe that the “special action” was specifically designed for raids, just that it was introduced in them first. At the beginning it was also a surprise for most raiders as a “special action” was not mentioned anywhere.
Now if you read the new mastery description it specifially states “special action skill” which gives a hint that it is something that needs to be activated to use. It also has a standard keybinding (the key right of the “0” key i believe, “ß” on german layout)

The information exists, it’s not really hidden, it is just not emphasized. I prefer it this way, I hate all these tutorials with big arrows pointing to something on my screen.

It’s not important whether it was designed for raids. What I was saying it was put in content that only a subset of the population does then added to the story without explanation because ANet forgot that there are people who’ve never seen this before and therefore wouldn’t automatically know what to do.

In addition, theres a big difference between giving a group of 10 people something new and unexplained to figure out and giving it to one person playing solo. The 10 people can discuss it amongst themselves and figure it out from everyone helping each other then tell any new players from then on. Not so a solo player who is figuring it out for the first time all alone.

I knew there was a new skill coming up so I figured out I needed to click it when I saw it. However there are going to be people who didn’t read the new mastery or they read it but didn’t understand. It’s one thing to put in new, unexpected special mechanics in raids. That’s where people go who want challenge and to figure things out. However story lines are done by the whole population. The smart, the dumb, the quick to see and understand, the terminally clueless. They will all be doing it. The story is for everyone and the mechanics in it should either be what is already known or they should be explained for the first run through. Any special figuring out and challenges needs to be reserved for the achievements.

(As for my keybinds, I checked yesterday. The Special Action had nothing assigned to it)

Edit: they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help. For example, you could have captured a White Mantle prisoner and had the option to threaten him so he explains what to do. Those that want to figure it out themselves can do so. Those that want help can threaten the prisoner and have him tell them what to do.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help.

If they were going to spell it out for you, they should simply use the original help popups. After a minute of not destroying the crystals for example, it should point to the new skill, with a basic description of what to do.

What I was saying it was put in content that only a subset of the population does then added to the story without explanation because ANet forgot that there are people who’ve never seen this before and therefore wouldn’t automatically know what to do.

You’re expected to be able to figure it out. When you first reach the crystals, the NPCs state that you’ll need to clear a path and ask if you have any tricks, hinting that you have the (new) ability. The lack of enemies in the area was to get you to focus on this and figure out the new skill. The sound effect should also help you to realize when the skill pops up. If you move around during this part, you should also notice the beam following you, which should have made the dialogue in the next part – how to break the shields – fairly obvious. If you didn’t notice however, you should know that the crystals are required in order to break the shields, since not only do the NPCs tell you, but the event UI does also, plus this time, they’re marked by the event. Eventually, you should notice the beam and realize what the NPCs meant or accidentally break them by simply running between the crystals to use the ability.

(the default binding was -)

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

It was a few seconds before I noticed the ‘-’ on the skill (because ‘-’ is very small), but it, like every other skill, did show you the key to press to activate it. I can’t remember what the tool-tip on the skill stated, but if I remember correctly (and I might not) it gave some information on its use. Thus, I never ‘clicked’ it, but pressed that key on my keyboard. Somewhat awkward way over there, I really need to remember to change the key-binding for it for use in the future…lol.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help.

If they were going to spell it out for you, they should simply use the original help popups. After a minute of not destroying the crystals for example, it should point to the new skill, with a basic description of what to do.

What I was saying it was put in content that only a subset of the population does then added to the story without explanation because ANet forgot that there are people who’ve never seen this before and therefore wouldn’t automatically know what to do.

You’re expected to be able to figure it out. When you first reach the crystals, the NPCs state that you’ll need to clear a path and ask if you have any tricks, hinting that you have the (new) ability. The lack of enemies in the area was to get you to focus on this and figure out the new skill. The sound effect should also help you to realize when the skill pops up. If you move around during this part, you should also notice the beam following you, which should have made the dialogue in the next part – how to break the shields – fairly obvious. If you didn’t notice however, you should know that the crystals are required in order to break the shields, since not only do the NPCs tell you, but the event UI does also, plus this time, they’re marked by the event. Eventually, you should notice the beam and realize what the NPCs meant or accidentally break them by simply running between the crystals to use the ability.

(the default binding was -)

Yes. I know. Should should should. But should is not would.

What I was saying that there should not be two brand new things to figure out at the same time for someone who is playing solo through the story line. One. Not two. That’s why they had the NPE because there were too many new things at once for people to learn while leveling. The principle is the same. They should have kept that in mind and either taught people about one of these beforehand or had a different setup.

and like I said, it wasn’t set up on default key for me, probably since I had reset all the defaults years ago to suit myself.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Yeah. I knew you were supposed to do something with them. Like I said on my post above I spend some time doing different things trying to figure it out until I gave up and googled it.

It was just annoying. I had never seen the special action skill before when it suddenly appeared on my UI. I knew I was getting some sort of new skill at some point so when I saw the icon I figured that was it. However I had no idea there was a keybind for it since I’ve never raided. I was having to turn off action camera, hit the icon with my mouse, turn action camera back on and try to figure out what to do with it before the skill ended. Then repeat after each failure.

If they’re going to put mechanics from content that’s only played by some players into the story line where people may never have encountered these things before and are often playing solo, then they need to explain it clearly beforehand. Suddenly presenting players with a new skill that needs a keybind to be effective and not explaining that at all so that people even realize there is a brand new skill up there, and giving vague instructions to “do something with it” in a soloable story line is very poor. There should only be one new thing presented to players at a time. Not two unexplained new things for them to figure out.

I dont believe that the “special action” was specifically designed for raids, just that it was introduced in them first. At the beginning it was also a surprise for most raiders as a “special action” was not mentioned anywhere.
Now if you read the new mastery description it specifially states “special action skill” which gives a hint that it is something that needs to be activated to use. It also has a standard keybinding (the key right of the “0” key i believe, “ß” on german layout)

The information exists, it’s not really hidden, it is just not emphasized. I prefer it this way, I hate all these tutorials with big arrows pointing to something on my screen.

It’s not important whether it was designed for raids. What I was saying it was put in content that only a subset of the population does then added to the story without explanation because ANet forgot that there are people who’ve never seen this before and therefore wouldn’t automatically know what to do.

The Raiders didn’t get any more information about it than you did.

Edit: they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help. For example, you could have captured a White Mantle prisoner and had the option to threaten him so he explains what to do. Those that want to figure it out themselves can do so. Those that want help can threaten the prisoner and have him tell them what to do.

… sorry, but if someone’s too dumb to figure out how to listen to their own companions and push a great big button in the middle of their screen, I highly doubt they’d be able to figure out how to capture a white mantle prisoner and make them say what to do.

(edited by Sartharina.3542)

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Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246

TheRandomGuy.7246

Edit: they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help. For example, you could have captured a White Mantle prisoner and had the option to threaten him so he explains what to do. Those that want to figure it out themselves can do so. Those that want help can threaten the prisoner and have him tell them what to do.

- “How do I kill them?! Talk!”
- “Press Special Action Key <default keybind> and position yourself between crystal and the elemental to make him vulnerable.”

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Yeah. I knew you were supposed to do something with them. Like I said on my post above I spend some time doing different things trying to figure it out until I gave up and googled it.

It was just annoying. I had never seen the special action skill before when it suddenly appeared on my UI. I knew I was getting some sort of new skill at some point so when I saw the icon I figured that was it. However I had no idea there was a keybind for it since I’ve never raided. I was having to turn off action camera, hit the icon with my mouse, turn action camera back on and try to figure out what to do with it before the skill ended. Then repeat after each failure.

If they’re going to put mechanics from content that’s only played by some players into the story line where people may never have encountered these things before and are often playing solo, then they need to explain it clearly beforehand. Suddenly presenting players with a new skill that needs a keybind to be effective and not explaining that at all so that people even realize there is a brand new skill up there, and giving vague instructions to “do something with it” in a soloable story line is very poor. There should only be one new thing presented to players at a time. Not two unexplained new things for them to figure out.

I dont believe that the “special action” was specifically designed for raids, just that it was introduced in them first. At the beginning it was also a surprise for most raiders as a “special action” was not mentioned anywhere.
Now if you read the new mastery description it specifially states “special action skill” which gives a hint that it is something that needs to be activated to use. It also has a standard keybinding (the key right of the “0” key i believe, “ß” on german layout)

The information exists, it’s not really hidden, it is just not emphasized. I prefer it this way, I hate all these tutorials with big arrows pointing to something on my screen.

It’s not important whether it was designed for raids. What I was saying it was put in content that only a subset of the population does then added to the story without explanation because ANet forgot that there are people who’ve never seen this before and therefore wouldn’t automatically know what to do.

The Raiders didn’t get any more information about it than you did.

Edit: they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help. For example, you could have captured a White Mantle prisoner and had the option to threaten him so he explains what to do. Those that want to figure it out themselves can do so. Those that want help can threaten the prisoner and have him tell them what to do.

… sorry, but if someone’s too dumb to figure out how to listen to their own companions and push a great big button in the middle of their screen, I highly doubt they’d be able to figure out how to capture a white mantle prisoner and make them say what to do.

As I said above, having 10 people figuring out something all together, especially 10 people who go somewhere expecting that they’ll have to puzzle out techniques, is different than one person trying to figure it out all alone. The 10 have a group effort that can try this and try that faster than one person, who by himself might not even see the new icon or know what to do with it.

What I’m saying is that people are different and have different abilities and capabilities. The story line is for everyone to do, both people who like puzzles and people who needed the NPE, and should be made for the story alone. Any new icons or things to do should either be explained or reserved for achievements.
________________

that’s all I’m going to say on here on this since the conversation is devolving to how people are too stupid to even follow a scripted story line to capture a prisoner and ask him a question. Y’all can discuss how stupid other people are on your own time,

Good day.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

Edit: they could have set that situation up for those that want to figure it out by themselves and for those that wanted help. For example, you could have captured a White Mantle prisoner and had the option to threaten him so he explains what to do. Those that want to figure it out themselves can do so. Those that want help can threaten the prisoner and have him tell them what to do.

- “How do I kill them?! Talk!”
- “Press Special Action Key <default keybind> and position yourself between crystal and the elemental to make him vulnerable.”

Whoops, I think you mean “and position the elemental between yourself and the crystal” there.

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Posted by: mauried.5608

mauried.5608

Well, the part of the LS now that is causing me the problem is called cornered which has an invulnerable mob in it which afaik doesnt have to be killed and the event ends by having to get to a near impossible room and kill a golem in a short timeframe.
According to the Utube videos, Ive done everything thats needed, but the event doesnt end.
Im now stuck with either, theres something else thats got to be done of which I have no idea what, or I havnt done things in the right order.
The numbers or combinations of things that I could try would keep me there for the rest of my life if theres no kind of hints or instructions as to what I have to do to finish it.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Well, the part of the LS now that is causing me the problem is called cornered which has an invulnerable mob in it which afaik doesnt have to be killed and the event ends by having to get to a near impossible room and kill a golem in a short timeframe.
According to the Utube videos, Ive done everything thats needed, but the event doesnt end.
Im now stuck with either, theres something else thats got to be done of which I have no idea what, or I havnt done things in the right order.
The numbers or combinations of things that I could try would keep me there for the rest of my life if theres no kind of hints or instructions as to what I have to do to finish it.

This may be informational:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cornered

Good luck.

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Posted by: mauried.5608

mauried.5608

Thanks for that.
I did read it b4 and tried to follow , but Ill try again.
The requirement to go to the hidden room is confusing as it implies thats part of the event, but it seems its 2 events that have to be done seperately.
If the event had simply said that you have to kill the saboteur , Aerin, then it would have made more sense,

(edited by mauried.5608)