Guild Wars 2

Underwater combat was such an integral part of the core game and some of the most fascinating and impressive areas to explore are underwater. It also provide a great excursion from land combat due to the significantly different tactical elements involved.

Of course, we’re all aware that some balance was still required to really make it work. Traits weren’t properly geared for both land and water, many skills that traits affect are completely unavailable and with no way to set your build before jumping in it can wind you up in a difficult situation. Then there was the mob layouts, the lack of aqua breathers, etc…

The main concern is that ANET appears to be simply phasing it out rather than fixing the issues. We first had the large water area replaced in WvWvW, then the removal of the PvP map, and now the latest weapon skins (leyline) do not have underwater versions.

I think most of the community would be in agreement that we would rather ANET was open about where they are heading regarding underwater combat, rather than simply ghosting it out with no customer engagement.

What does this mean for underwater legendaries? What does this mean for the Largos?
Does this mean no underwater areas when we finally meet “bubbles”?

It really would be a shame to lose such a large part of the core experience when it’s just on the edge of working…

when this game came out at launch I Was like oh god why is there so much underwater content? these hearts and pois and vistas wtf I hate this!!! Now about 2 years later I feel like im not underwater enough and I kind of miss it, as the underwater is actually done very well in this game. I also think there should be more water in wvw again but thats a whole different topic

You might want to edit the title of your thread to avoid an infraction.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/rules
“Do not engage in staff call-outs. Using the words “ArenaNet” or any staff member’s name will not expedite the answer to your query.”

Azure.8670:

when this game came out at launch I Was like oh god why is there so much underwater content? these hearts and pois and vistas wtf I hate this!!! Now about 2 years later I feel like im not underwater enough and I kind of miss it, as the underwater is actually done very well in this game. I also think there should be more water in wvw again but thats a whole different topic

The content is still there, however it was bugged like hell in the beginning and so totally no fun for me and thats why i simply ignored underwater more and more with every new character i played.

Astral Projections.7320:

You might want to edit the title of your thread to avoid an infraction.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/rules
“Do not engage in staff call-outs. Using the words “ArenaNet” or any staff member’s name will not expedite the answer to your query.”

Thanks – I just edited it.

I also just hit the wrong button and reported a post in error… It’s hard hitting the reply arrow on an iPhone

I remember hearing a lot of complaining about underwater after release. Though I never outright disliked it, myself, and loved to visit the aquatic environments, it wasn’t until shortly before Raid on the Capricorn was removed that I really started to appreciate the combat on ele. Even though necros, engies, and rangers could easily overwhelm opponents when in the right hands, I had a lot of fun at that center capture point.

It’s confusing that ANet seems to be slowly phasing it out, as you say, even though they only just recently fixed Evasive Arcana after roughly a year and a half (something I had otherwise been content to consider “working as intended”). This fix could have added some direction to attunement rotations underwater and given trident a “flow” similar to d/d.

I agree that it would be a great shame for ANet to continue neglecting underwater combat. It’s well-worth the variety it offers in gameplay and scenery.

I was really excited with underwater combat when I started playing. I still like the idea, but I think it was badly executed.
Hopefully the reason they’re phasing it out is to have a big overhaul in the future. Not a complete overhaul, just improving some aspects, fixing issues and giving underwater combat a bigger role in the game.

I think it’s more that they’re wanting to overhaul it in the future but at the moment they’ve got other things they’re working on and fixing underwater combat is on the back burner (hence no new underwater weapons).

I honestly love underwater combat (I made Kraitkin and am working on Frenzy…so yeah I like underwater) and hope that it isn’t too far in the future that they work on underwater combat and we get to see Bubbles and more of the Largos.

It’s the silence that bothers me – considering legendaries take so much time and planning, i’d rather know to spend my time working toward a land weapon.

khani.4786:

I think it’s more that they’re wanting to overhaul it in the future but at the moment they’ve got other things they’re working on and fixing underwater combat is on the back burner (hence no new underwater weapons).

I honestly love underwater combat (I made Kraitkin and am working on Frenzy…so yeah I like underwater) and hope that it isn’t too far in the future that they work on underwater combat and we get to see Bubbles and more of the Largos.

I very much hope so. The wording in the patch notes for the removal of Raid on the Capricorn suggests underwater PvP will never see the light of day again.

Underwater combat is rather boring and unrewarding.
They’re probably phasing it out because they’ve noticed players stay well away from it.

I think there will be more underwater combat, I mean look at the people who actually crafted underwater Legendaries.

I think they are trying to figure out how to fix it, so that it is more balanced.

Elestian.6134:

I remember hearing a lot of complaining about underwater after release.

Most annoying part was that mobs all the time got invulnerable, and then you pulled one mob and suddenly out of nothing there were 3 or 4 .. then when you had one nearly down it again was invulnerable ..

Or the underwater instance in the personal story, where mobs were always bugged in the walls ..

They had underwater version of the tormented weapons, although I don’t think they did that for the newer skins.

It will still be in the game, just mostly non-existent in PvP (I say mostly since it’s still in WvW). They just didn’t feel it was working in that format, but it’ll still be a integral part of PvE (although it’s not a part of the new LS… yet, anyways).

I do hope they address some of the issues with it sooner than later, but it’s definitely not on the priority list… maybe a step above downed state skills though.

Isn’t there an underwater elder dragon? I’d be hard pressed to think they are phasing out water fights completely. I agree that they probably just didn’t think it was in a place where it would be balanced enough for PVP and WVW (although, is wvw really balanced?). Still, I’m looking forward to swimming down into the briny depths to strike at Bubbles or even see that mythical large underwater creature that was shown in one of the early trailers.

I really hope they don’t phase out underwater combat. That would require a huge overhaul of how we map complete frostgorge and a few other areas. I don’t see them ever doing it.

Lady Deedra.3126:

I really hope they don’t phase out underwater combat. That would require a huge overhaul of how we map complete frostgorge and a few other areas. I don’t see them ever doing it.

What if the Deep Sea Dragon could absorb impossible quantities of water. It could change Honor of the Waves Explorable to deal with frantic quaggans, but keep the Plunderer. Collapsed glaciers and kodan ships can act as stairs.

I don’t believe UW combat is going anywhere. ANet has put many aspects of GW2 on the back burner. UW combat is just one of them.

I think underwater combat in PvP is being phased out, as players in WvW and PvP have consistently shown to avoid fighting in water whenever possible.

I also think underwater combat in PvE will receive a major overhaul at some point in the future, in order to rebalance it, remove various bugs, and present it to us as a brand-new feature (for example by reworking all underwater weapon skills, adding new underwater weapons, or adapting all “normal” weapons to also work underwater somehow – which would allow for the removal of the current underwater weapons).

Finally, I believe this to be a long-term project.

However, the fact that the new weapon set does not include underwater weapons does have me slightly worried. While it could just be time constraints (with underwater weapons added later on), some remarks by a developer could do much to assuage these worries.

They do seem to have been moving away from underwater combat and exploration. I don’t mind it, yet. But if and when we get to take the fight to Bubbles, it kitten ed well better not be on dry land. Thematically and mechanically, that fight belongs underwater.

Lady Deedra.3126:

I really hope they don’t phase out underwater combat. That would require a huge overhaul of how we map complete frostgorge and a few other areas. I don’t see them ever doing it.

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting they will go back and remove the UW PvE areas; that would definitely be far too much work, especially with the personal story having so many UW sections.

What I feel they may be doing instead is simply doing away with it going forward by not including any underwater elements or weapon skins in future content.

If this IS true then it’s a huge disappointment. I really don’t think UW combat is THAT bad that it would simply need to be dropped. It is one of the key features that makes this game stand out.

I’ve noticed the phasing out of water combat as well. Hopefully they will figure out what they want to do with it, so they will be more comfortable adding a little in the future, though I don’t expect this to happen very soon.

I thought to check the map, and there is a little water North of Dry top, and quite a bit in the area South of Dry Top and North of Rata Sum, so hopefully there will be water areas introduced in this Living Story season, though there doesn’t seem to be anything notable in the Magus Falls area, which looks a bit more fleshed out than the rest of Maguuma.

Perhaps the worst part, if they continue to avoid water, is that so many area’s I’m really interested in have a lot of water. That massive lake in Northern Maguuma, the Tributary at Janthir Bay, and the area North of Janthir Bay (is that a volcano? I think what little we can see most cloesly resembles the Ring of Fire) are all of particular interest to me. And while we probably won’t see all of those, it would be a shame for none of them to be available on the fact that Anet decides to avoid water combat because some players don’t like it.

Awww. I was hoping that some day they would introduce Largos as a player race, not because I have any interest in playing them, but for a full map underwater complete with underwater towns and cities

I have a lvl 80 of each class and do notice that some classes feel really strong underwater and some feel like fish food, so I guess there were problems with balance for pvp/wvwvw.

In pve I hardly see people in underwater events like the ones in straits of devastation, so I wonder if their data is showing that players are avoiding water combat.

I’ll be very sad if they take away my ability to get those temporary quaggan potions. They already took away (or broke) the fun of using the little charzooka while in little blue quaggan form. One of the funniest things I ever saw in this game was when about 15 mini quaggans armed with charzookas fought the old Tequatl (tnx JQ FOO and friends xD)

I really wish they would remove those underwater helmets and let us use the normal helmets instead. I’m really not willing to buy for example Travellers Runes to put them in my lvl 77 green underwarer breather since there is still nothing better in the game.

And yeah .. green 80s in Orr .. but with condition damage.

Underwater is a zone where mesmers are actually fast and can put off a fight. Of course it has to go.

I’ve been saying this for the longest time…
It’s sad that they gave up on underwater crap you can’t do or doesn’t work, maybe it’s for the best.
It will probably be for exploration only with a huge decrease or complete removal of underwater enemies.
Then you have underwater fractal!!! That feedback is gonna be great once that gets taken out…

khani.4786:

I think it’s more that they’re wanting to overhaul it in the future but at the moment they’ve got other things they’re working on.

That’s what I observer.

From what I’ve seen of ANet they typically don’t abandon things they’ve created. They get wavering attention but they always revisit it at some point.

Many years in the future as GW2 gets older they will look for ways to reinvigorate the environment and a complete overhaul to underwater combat would be an exciting way to do that. But atm there’s not the momentum from them and posts like this celebrating underwater combat historically have been uncommon.

I really enjoy the underwater combat. Sure it could be improved but with everyone screaming for their pet projects to be improved the company goes for the majority and the majority are ambivalent towards this aspect of the game.
I would request the underwater swimming animations be changed the diver in me just does not like it. It is kind of boring how you actually move underwater but it is better than flailing around like the characters/npc’s do now.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

khani.4786:

I think it’s more that they’re wanting to overhaul it in the future but at the moment they’ve got other things they’re working on.

From what I’ve seen of ANet they typically don’t abandon things they’ve created. They get wavering attention but they always revisit it at some point.

I’m not sure I’m seeing the same trend as you. They removed Tengu and Polearms with no real hints toward them returning.

They removed the personality system even though they have now found a way to deliver the living story in a more personal and customisable way (therefore more supportive of the personality system developing).

They appear to be removing Underwater elements in the same way as the personality system (It’s still there for the older content, but future stuff won’t include it)…

The thing about the underwater stuff is that it’s a much, much larger part of the game than the personality system, so would be such a huge loss if they stopped developing it.

I think they set it too far apart from land combat. Engineer kits are a perfect example of how it should have been handled for everyone; use all the same weapons and skills whether on land or water, but simply tweak the skills where necessary (like how grenades become enemy-targeted rather than ground-targeted).

Underwater combat and the look of it’s environment is the best I’ve seen in any game.
I hope they include more underwater environments in future LS story or expansion.
Killing underwater content totally would be the final blow for this game or at least my participation in it.

Beldin.5498:

I really wish they would remove those underwater helmets and let us use the normal helmets instead. I’m really not willing to buy for example Travellers Runes to put them in my lvl 77 green underwarer breather since there is still nothing better in the game.

And yeah .. green 80s in Orr .. but with condition damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Benthic_Aquabreather would like a word.

Never.8571:

Beldin.5498:

I really wish they would remove those underwater helmets and let us use the normal helmets instead. I’m really not willing to buy for example Travellers Runes to put them in my lvl 77 green underwarer breather since there is still nothing better in the game.

And yeah .. green 80s in Orr .. but with condition damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Benthic_Aquabreather would like a word.

Oh yeah .. wait 1000 hours at Teq to get a chance of a stupid aqua breather .. no thanks.

You can buy around on the TP.

RedStar.4218:

You can buy around on the TP.

Or i use the money to buy a useless mini that i will never use.
I refuse to pay x gold for a yellow item that i nearly never use.
Either they give us proper exotics that we can also craft with all stats and also
give us the checkbox to hide them, or they simply remove them and let us use
the normal helmet instead.

Beldin.5498:

RedStar.4218:

You can buy around on the TP.

Or i use the money to buy a useless mini that i will never use.
I refuse to pay x gold for a yellow item that i nearly never use.
Either they give us proper exotics that we can also craft with all stats and also
give us the checkbox to hide them, or they simply remove them and let us use
the normal helmet instead.

Shouldn’t you be angry after they’ve had the chance to not do it? I believe this is the first update to introduce a set of skins that are Exotic and craftable. But since we’re nowhere near a body of water, you’ll probably have to wait as long as the underwater fans for an aquabreather Exotic as they are for Black Lion weapon skins.

Were they testing the water with Tormented? Do ho ho ho ho!

I’m not angry .. i just wanted to say i wish they remove them .. or they
implement them as real items like all other armor.

Underwater combat is sort of ok for fighting a small number of enemies but it is not fit for PvE bosses or major PvP fights. Future content can be released on that basis but it would mean we’re not going to see any major new underwater battles.

It would take a lot of work to bring underwater combat up to scratch. The land combat system looks 3D but is mostly 2D, the prime example being combo fields. Water combat needs to be 3D and immediately there are problems with traps, fields, walls, area targeting, etc. This means that weapon skills are limited (boring), classes are gutted of their utilities, traits fail as utilities are not viable, and so on. That’s just the start of the problems so I’m guessing nothing will be done until water combat really is needed for the Deep Sea Dragon.

I don’t think it will be phased out because that would be A LOT of work.
And by the way, the WvW thing was just a way to turn a part of the map no one ever wanted to play on, to something “small groups can do that will actually contribute to the fight without having to zerg” boy did they cried about it, now that something is there no small groups are to be seen, but what ever.

Whats happening is no new underwater content, since it was too hard for people to learn the underwater weapons and movement in a volume, all they did was spam their skills and complain it was too hard.

I have yet to play a game which had underwater combat which actually worked out. Even the first Super Mario Bros. game was terrible at it. Everyone knows to start face-desking when they see the water-based dungeon in a Zelda game. And in every MMO I played where there was water involved there was usually some component of “get the fight out of the water” to most combat.

The only worse example is space combat, where the only game I played which did it well enough to engross me forgot about inertia. The game which didn’t forget that was relatively tough to take advantage of that, despite it being potentially really effective to the AI.

I’m happy with the way it has been handled.

You can go underwater, but it is not the main part of the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I have yet to play a game which had underwater combat which actually worked out. Even the first Super Mario Bros. game was terrible at it. Everyone knows to start face-desking when they see the water-based dungeon in a Zelda game. And in every MMO I played where there was water involved there was usually some component of “get the fight out of the water” to most combat.

Bubble Man is disappointed to hear that.

darkace.8925:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I have yet to play a game which had underwater combat which actually worked out. Even the first Super Mario Bros. game was terrible at it. Everyone knows to start face-desking when they see the water-based dungeon in a Zelda game. And in every MMO I played where there was water involved there was usually some component of “get the fight out of the water” to most combat.

Bubble Man is disappointed to hear that.

Sorry, Mega Man 2? Nah, it wasn’t all that good as underwater. It was just control adjustments rather than, eh . . . actually different.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I have yet to play a game which had underwater combat which actually worked out.

It works really good in Champions Online since there the movement under water in the end isn’t different than flying in the rest of the world, only that mobs can be on different height levels.

However .. even there most people totally hate Lemuria (the underwater zone)

Underwater combat could stand to be improved. Increase base movement speed in the water, for example. Water shouldn’t feel like an obstacle. That said, classes other than thief need better underwater combat skillsets for their weapons. As a Thief I can stay underwater and fight pretty much anything with a Spear. Every other class? Not so much.

“As a Thief I can stay underwater and fight pretty much anything with a Spear.”

Any one opponent. If you want to cleave multiple opponents you have to surrender your defense and risk getting hit through the block response. So the spear is a essentially a broken weapon as it either too good or too bad and never balanced.

Azure.8670:

when this game came out at launch I Was like oh god why is there so much underwater content? these hearts and pois and vistas wtf I hate this!!! Now about 2 years later I feel like im not underwater enough and I kind of miss it, as the underwater is actually done very well in this game. I also think there should be more water in wvw again but thats a whole different topic

Yeah, same here. When I first started plying I didn’t care for underwater content, now, I like it just as much as the rest of the content. It mixes stuff up and gives the player something different to do, which keeps stuff from getting boring.

Stooperdale.3560:

“As a Thief I can stay underwater and fight pretty much anything with a Spear.”

Any one opponent. If you want to cleave multiple opponents you have to surrender your defense and risk getting hit through the block response. So the spear is a essentially a broken weapon as it either too good or too bad and never balanced.

I also used to find thief completely OP underwater. Before they increased the evade and stab skill to 7 initiative I used to solo champion sharks.

Thief is still pretty kick-kitten underwater though (Used to go 2 and 3v1 on the PvP map) but not as much as it used to be.