Guild Wars 2

Rage.9723:

That is true that more choices are given in terms of more achievements. They are more specific now though and a great amount of freedom is not there to choose how you may want to do one of the more generic achievements.

See here’s my issue. The only thing affected are achievement points and nothing else. The log in rewards are actually what replaces the old daily.

Therefore you get the old daily (with the exception of achievement points) just for logging in. It’s easier to get the old daily.

Now we look at achievement points. Some people want (and indeed were getting) achievement points just for doing what they normally do. To some this was better. To me it’s not better, because it’s meaningless. It’s not an achievement. Do I think it’s fair game for Anet to actually raise the bar (just a bit) on achievement points and make you do something to get them. Sure I do. But that’s not the end of the story.

Right now if you do 3 achievements you get 10 achievement points. In the past you needed to do ten achievements to get that many points, so even if a person who used to get the daily every day was to skip every other day, they’s still have the same number of achievements. And for those of us who did 8 or 9, this is better.

So for people who don’t care about achievement points at all, this should be better. For people dead focused on achievement points this should be better and for many of the people in the middle, it should also be better, because you’re also getting MORE rewards.

Twice in the last week, I got 3 ectos for crafting an exotic essence of luck. That’s a whole lot better for me than the rewards used to be.

This system is far more rewarding. The new daily rewards are rewards we never had before.

As others have mentioned in this thread the old dailies were easier for me to weave into normal play. For example if there was a requirement for Shiverpeak events then I could use my character in Timberline Falls and combine that daily with working on personal story there or combine it with a different character who was getting 100 % completion of Frostgorge, say. As a consequence I would usually stay playing longer than it would take to get the dailies.

With the specificity of the requirements now I will most likely not have someone in Wayfarer’s, say, so most go there specifically to get the daily requirement. As a consequence since the new dailies I have not played any longer than it took to get the new dailies, if I bothered to get them at all.

More players logging in to get their daily laurels may pad the login statistics but I doubt that translates into more time playing the game.

DeceiverX.8361:

The responses were really negative, with many people insisting that the killing mobs guarding camps in WvW is not PvE content or comparable to PvE content. I genuinely don’t understand this kind of attitude and don’t really see why it’s such a big problem for some people to do.

One thing they may be wary of is being in the middle of that when the zerg comes over the hill and they all die to the swarm of floating names (because the models haven’t rendered) with absolutely no chance to fight back, escape, or basically do anything at all besides die. The removal of white swords might help in preventing that, but even so… I have nothing against PvP in general or WvW in particular, but being on a world that was regularly going up against Blackgate for a while, every time I got steamrolled by one of those zergswarms it took away a little bit of enthusiasm about the whole deal.

Getting 5v1ed in sPvP is bad enough, but at least then you at least theoretically have 4 other allies nearby to either assist or exploit the enemy’s absence in the rest of the map.

Still, at the bottom line, this isn’t a zero-sum game. Giving more choice to people who don’t like PvE did not need to mean taking choice away from people who don’t like PvP.

Vayne.8563:

It’s not an achievement. Do I think it’s fair game for Anet to actually raise the bar (just a bit) on achievement points and make you do something to get them. Sure I do. But that’s not the end of the story.

So let’s look at the shape of these PvE ‘achievements’:

Area-specific event completion achievements: Just like the old event completer achievements, except that there’s only one zone you can do them in. The only ‘achievement’ over the old system is going to the zone you’re required to go to… and competing with the locust swarm of other players who are having to do the exact same events to get the daily achievement.

Vista viewing: Revisit the easiest vista in the specified region. It’s such an achievement to have to walk over to a spot and maybe do a few easy jumps.

Regional gathering: Harvest 4 nodes. Clearly, an act worthy of legendary heroes. Of course, if it doesn’t happen to be the same region as one of the others, you’re going to have to put some travel in.

World bosses: For most of them, this is simply a matter of knowing when and where to travel to which place, and not being completely incompetent. Some of the more epic cases like the jungle wurm and Tequatl are more of an achievement, but let’s face it – the true achievement is by the commanders who have managed to herd cats enough for what is needed to happen to happen, generally not the individual players.

Fractals… okay, this is actually reasonable achievement-worthy. They’ve been low level fractals so far, but on the other hand, it might be intended to give the veteran fractal runners an incentive to help the beginners scale up occasionally.

So, basically… for the PvE “achievements”, in most cases the only real “achievement” is forking out the time or money to travel to the location that the achievement forces you to go to. Once you get there, it’s trivial. But is it really helping anything to get people to bounce between three locations a day rather than sticking around on one map for a bit and getting their achievements there?

Subdue.5479:

Guhracie.3419:

Subdue.5479:

I’m just going to say the premise of this thread in itself is rather misleading. How does shifting the rewards for the dailies into the login result in fewer choices? The fact that the all important time gated currency (laurel) is now no longer tied to any activity means you can log in and do whatever you want without issue. And should you -choose- to hunt AP, it’s now faster and easier, but it’s treated as an actual reward for going out of your way to do something, just like everything else (pvp, dungeons, etc). If anything, the recent daily changes add MORE choices rather than remove them.

Okay, first of all, the premise of this thread is to have a discussion about the topic. So that is in no way misleading.

Shifting the rewards for dailies into the login system isn’t the issue, and it’s either dishonest to suggest that’s what I’ve said, or you honestly didn’t read the original post.

I’d be happy to discuss the actual contents of my posting with you.

You can claim it’s to have a “discussion” but you’d have to be kidding yourself if you think there’s no bias in the original post. That aside, I’d be happy to explain further.

1. Dailies: As I mentioned in my previous post (which you basically dismissed with a “you didn’t read what I said” comment, by shifting rewards to login rather than tied to random activities, A.Net made doing the dailies a -choice- rather than a requirement. You’re not locked out of any content by not doing the dailies anymore, where as previously if you weren’t doing the dailies you’d have reduced access to laurels, a time gated currency. Edit: And I am just going to add this. It should be obvious, but for many it’s not. You -cannot- analyze the daily change without considering the shift in rewards. The two go hand in hand.

2. Wintersday Festival Dailies: If I recall correctly last year’s festival didn’t reward you with a laurel, they were just factored into the regular daily. This year, they provide you with a laurel on top of the set you get from the 28-day track. Greater reward, greater effort required. Is that really unreasonable?

3. Traits: Previously you had to buy all of the traits in each section, and expend the gold to do so, even for traits you have no intention of using. There was no way around this. Now, you can choose each individual trait you want to get, and you can choose to buy it with currency and SP, or do the quest associated with it. More choices!

There’s a big difference between “having choices” and “getting everything you want for doing anything at all,” and the points you bring up do not support the premise of fewer choices. They support the premise of wanting to have everything without expending any additional effort for it.

Wait, what? Where did I ever even try to imply that my original post is without bias? I literally said that I was going to list changes to the game that I perceive to have led to fewer choices, and then explain why I don’t like that. Bias is not a bad thing, in the context of discussions, because we all have inherent biases. I did say that the number of dailies available to PvE players has been demonstrably reduced twice this year, and that’s a fact, without bias.

1. Dailies were always a choice. So are achievements. So is playing the game. My issue is that this, in the larger picture, is part of a more regimented, structured system. It’s a symptom, not the entirety of the problem.

2. My issue with wintersday is not the dailies. It’s the fact that festivals have, historically, offered a choice in how to complete the meta achievement. This meta has 11 achievements, and requires 11 achievements.

3. Better people than I am have already addressed your statement about traits, and I addressed this line of “reasoning” once already in the thread. It’s laughable to say that instead of having to buy the whole line, you can choose to buy a single trait. The reason that’s so funny is because each individual trait costs the same in coin currency as it used to cost to unlock the entire tier of all 5 lines. The additional skill point cost is just insult to injury. So, if you can honestly look at unlocking 30 traits for 10s as being less flexible and more restrictive than doing 30 “quests” (including zone completions, obsidian sanctum, at least two dungeons, and the grub in wvw) or spending 3g and 60 skillpoints, I think you’ll find yourself in the minority.

Your final paragraph is just insulting, and if that’s really your takeaway from this discussion, I don’t know how to get past that hurdle.

draxynnic.3719:

DeceiverX.8361:

The responses were really negative, with many people insisting that the killing mobs guarding camps in WvW is not PvE content or comparable to PvE content. I genuinely don’t understand this kind of attitude and don’t really see why it’s such a big problem for some people to do.

One thing they may be wary of is being in the middle of that when the zerg comes over the hill and they all die to the swarm of floating names (because the models haven’t rendered) with absolutely no chance to fight back, escape, or basically do anything at all besides die. The removal of white swords might help in preventing that, but even so… I have nothing against PvP in general or WvW in particular, but being on a world that was regularly going up against Blackgate for a while, every time I got steamrolled by one of those zergswarms it took away a little bit of enthusiasm about the whole deal.

Getting 5v1ed in sPvP is bad enough, but at least then you at least theoretically have 4 other allies nearby to either assist or exploit the enemy’s absence in the rest of the map.

Still, at the bottom line, this isn’t a zero-sum game. Giving more choice to people who don’t like PvE did not need to mean taking choice away from people who don’t like PvP.

Vayne.8563:

It’s not an achievement. Do I think it’s fair game for Anet to actually raise the bar (just a bit) on achievement points and make you do something to get them. Sure I do. But that’s not the end of the story.

So let’s look at the shape of these PvE ‘achievements’:

Area-specific event completion achievements: Just like the old event completer achievements, except that there’s only one zone you can do them in. The only ‘achievement’ over the old system is going to the zone you’re required to go to… and competing with the locust swarm of other players who are having to do the exact same events to get the daily achievement.

Vista viewing: Revisit the easiest vista in the specified region. It’s such an achievement to have to walk over to a spot and maybe do a few easy jumps.

Regional gathering: Harvest 4 nodes. Clearly, an act worthy of legendary heroes. Of course, if it doesn’t happen to be the same region as one of the others, you’re going to have to put some travel in.

World bosses: For most of them, this is simply a matter of knowing when and where to travel to which place, and not being completely incompetent. Some of the more epic cases like the jungle wurm and Tequatl are more of an achievement, but let’s face it – the true achievement is by the commanders who have managed to herd cats enough for what is needed to happen to happen, generally not the individual players.

Fractals… okay, this is actually reasonable achievement-worthy. They’ve been low level fractals so far, but on the other hand, it might be intended to give the veteran fractal runners an incentive to help the beginners scale up occasionally.

So, basically… for the PvE “achievements”, in most cases the only real “achievement” is forking out the time or money to travel to the location that the achievement forces you to go to. Once you get there, it’s trivial. But is it really helping anything to get people to bounce between three locations a day rather than sticking around on one map for a bit and getting their achievements there?

Achievements show dedication as well as difficulty. If you’re willing to do the time to get them, then you’re showing more than you used to show.

Obviously achievement in this game (and most these days) can’t be taken literally. But since achievement points mean absolutely nothing in this game, unless you happen to be competing on the leaderboard. it’s fair game to make it more inconvenient to get them.

If people care about them it’s worth it, because you get more for less effort over all. If people don’t care about them they’re not really losing out.

Time as an achievement? The current achievements can be done faster than the old ones if you’re willing to waypoint. It just means that you’re bouncing around the world rather than having fun.

draxynnic.3719:

you’re bouncing around the world rather than having fun.

Those are not mutually exclusive.

I honestly don’t understand where you get this idea of less choice. Have you ever tried to get 10 AP before the patch? You had to do ALL of the dailies. does having to do 10 out of 10 dailies mean more choice to you?

And how long have you followed gw2 living story? Many of the prev meta achievements required you to finish all of the achievements before you get the grand reward.

Trait? maybe, but anet still give you the easy/gold way to unlock it. The difference (excluding the new GM traits) is only 8g. Yes, you need an extra couple hundreds of skill point, but with the new champ bag system, skill point is not a problem anymore. That if you really care to unlock all of the traits (we knw most ppl here only use meta build).

Pls do research first before making another ignorant post

BlueBoy.1236:

I honestly don’t understand where you get this idea of less choice. Have you ever tried to get 10 AP before the patch? You had to do ALL of the dailies. does having to do 10 out of 10 dailies mean more choice to you?

And how long have you followed gw2 living story? Many of the prev meta achievements required you to finish all of the achievements before you get the grand reward.

Trait? maybe, but anet still give you the easy/gold way to unlock it. The difference (excluding the new GM traits) is only 8g. Yes, you need an extra couple hundreds of skill point, but with the new champ bag system, skill point is not a problem anymore. That if you really care to unlock all of the traits (we knw most ppl here only use meta build).

Pls do research first before making another ignorant post

Uh, maybe you should do some research. The difference in trait cost is 360 skillpoints and 40g. And the rest isn’t even worth repeating myself over.

Honestly BlueBoy, before they changed up traits you could unlock ALL of your adept traits on ALL tracks for 10s. Now it’s 10s and 2SP (I think) per adept trait. A character has what, 30 adept traits.

10s Vs 3g and 60SP. Of course you don’t need to get them all but before you could experiment, now if you don’t have the means you need to choose carefully. Or scour the world to do the events that unlock them. And it’s too bad if the one you want is tied up at a high level event, guess you have to pay to get it “early”.

Guhracie.3419:

BlueBoy.1236:

I honestly don’t understand where you get this idea of less choice. Have you ever tried to get 10 AP before the patch? You had to do ALL of the dailies. does having to do 10 out of 10 dailies mean more choice to you?

And how long have you followed gw2 living story? Many of the prev meta achievements required you to finish all of the achievements before you get the grand reward.

Trait? maybe, but anet still give you the easy/gold way to unlock it. The difference (excluding the new GM traits) is only 8g. Yes, you need an extra couple hundreds of skill point, but with the new champ bag system, skill point is not a problem anymore. That if you really care to unlock all of the traits (we knw most ppl here only use meta build).

Pls do research first before making another ignorant post

Uh, maybe you should do some research. The difference in trait cost is 360 skillpoints and 40g. And the rest isn’t even worth repeating myself over.

Ok, my mistake, it should have been 25g and a few hundred skillpoints. Still it’s not really a big problem. If anet didn’t give us a way to farm gold or skillpoints, then yes you have the right to complain. Didn’t they give us champ bags and new dungeon rewards to compensate those changes? also didn’t i say excluding the new traits? If anet released a manual that cost 15g for the new traits, would that satisfy you? You also forget that you now dont need to pay a dime when you wanna retrait.

After reading your other post, i finally understand what you mean. Just like most ppl who replied to your post, i also had problems understanding your point. I’m gonna quote one of the most important question from Vayne.8563:

“How do you keep adding more dailies, without falling into the trap of everyone doing the ones that absolutely take no work?”

And please.. 10 out of 10ach for meta has been there since season 1

Behellagh.1468:

Honestly BlueBoy, before they changed up traits you could unlock ALL of your adept traits on ALL tracks for 10s. Now it’s 10s and 2SP (I think) per adept trait. A character has what, 30 adept traits.

10s Vs 3g and 60SP. Of course you don’t need to get them all but before you could experiment, now if you don’t have the means you need to choose carefully. Or scour the world to do the events that unlock them. And it’s too bad if the one you want is tied up at a high level event, guess you have to pay to get it “early”.

I agree that some of trait quests are stupid, but overall, the design is not bad. There’s no more gold barrier that prevents you from getting the traits. But like i said in my prev post, you were also given a compensation for this change. You can get skill pts from champ bags and more reliable gold from dungeons.

BlueBoy.1236:

Guhracie.3419:

BlueBoy.1236:

I honestly don’t understand where you get this idea of less choice. Have you ever tried to get 10 AP before the patch? You had to do ALL of the dailies. does having to do 10 out of 10 dailies mean more choice to you?

And how long have you followed gw2 living story? Many of the prev meta achievements required you to finish all of the achievements before you get the grand reward.

Trait? maybe, but anet still give you the easy/gold way to unlock it. The difference (excluding the new GM traits) is only 8g. Yes, you need an extra couple hundreds of skill point, but with the new champ bag system, skill point is not a problem anymore. That if you really care to unlock all of the traits (we knw most ppl here only use meta build).

Pls do research first before making another ignorant post

Uh, maybe you should do some research. The difference in trait cost is 360 skillpoints and 40g. And the rest isn’t even worth repeating myself over.

Ok, my mistake, it should have been 25g and a few hundred skillpoints. Still it’s not really a big problem. If anet didn’t give us a way to farm gold or skillpoints, then yes you have the right to complain. Didn’t they give us champ bags and new dungeon rewards to compensate those changes? also didn’t i say excluding the new traits? If anet released a manual that cost 15g for the new traits, would that satisfy you? You also forget that you now dont need to pay a dime when you wanna retrait.

After reading your other post, i finally understand what you mean. Just like most ppl who replied to your post, i also had problems understanding your point. I’m gonna quote one of the most important question from Vayne.8563:

“How do you keep adding more dailies, without falling into the trap of everyone doing the ones that absolutely take no work?”

And please.. 10 out of 10ach for meta has been there since season 1

Most people who (I’m not swearing, forum filter) responded to my post didn’t have a problem seeing my point. I don’t want them to add more dailies, I want them to stop taking them away. And I’ve been playing since the original living story, and despite the fact that I wasn’t talking about living story specifically, I was talking about festival meta achievements, you’re still wrong. I can’t think of a single living story meta that required all of the achievements in order to complete it. There was usually a pool of options, and you could choose which ones to complete. Anet even facilitated this by giving credit for each daily related to the meta event. For someone who accused me of being ignorant, you are appallingly uninformed.

And, once again, the difference in trait cost is not 25g. It is 40g and 360 skillpoints. Per character. Traits now cost 43g and 360 skill points, where they previously cost 2g60s.

But I did see the point of the OP. The way dailies were, they were completely meaningless, because everyone chose the easiest dailies and got them done fast as they could. Well most people anyway. Even me. It was completely silly.

So they give us that for doing nothing considering that’s pretty much what I was doing anyway. If they give more choices, and more of those choices are easy, then everyone will do them, which defeats the purpose.

What we have now is really a dual daily system. A daily log in reward that replaced the old reward (and is therefore MORE flexible) and a daily achievement point reward which is more “inconvenient” than the old reward, but it’s fair game because it’s only for achievement points.

What most people are really arguing about is that they want their easy achievement points back, when achievement points don’t make you more powerful and won’t win the game for you.

The achievement point dailies, the new dailies are the only thing Anet could have changed.

If they make it so that there’s nothing at all to doing them, they might as well remove them altogether. They serve no purpose at all.

CalamityO.2890:

Guhracie.3419:

If this is what you think, then you didn’t read the original post in this thread. Or any of my replies.

I have indeed read your original post. And your replies. One word keeps cropping up in my head: conflicted. As some one who does PvE, I get that you want more variety in your dailies. But as some one who also dabbles in WvW. I understand that there wasn’t enough variety in WvW dailies. This attempt was to address something, the game has gotten wrong over the last 2 years. Balance. Everyone should enjoy their game mode equally. And not have it so loop-sided.

If people do not enjoy playing one mode, the solution should never be “nerf enjoyment of everyone else to match”. There was no reason whatsoever for the balancing of dailies between game modes to b done by sacrificing choices on PvE side.

Did they nerf the dailies or did they create a completely new daily though? Because the old daily rewards you get for logging in. The whole system is different.

They didn’t take away dailies. The replacement for the old daily is the log in rewards. The new dailies are something that were never in the game before and if Anet had called them something other than dailies we’d not likely be having this conversation.

Vayne.8563:

But I did see the point of the OP. The way dailies were, they were completely meaningless, because everyone chose the easiest dailies and got them done fast as they could.

Isn’t that exactly what you advocate doing now? All those “but they can be done in 5 minutes flats” arguments hinge exactly on that kind of behaviour – taking the optimal (requiring the least work) dailies and doing them as fast as possible.

Vayne.8563:

What most people are really arguing about is that they want their easy achievement points back, when achievement points don’t make you more powerful and won’t win the game for you.

But they are nice to have. Honestly, the whole point of this game was to go mostly at things that aren’t powerful, that won’t win the game for you, but are still desirable to obtain for other, non-stat related reasons.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

But I did see the point of the OP. The way dailies were, they were completely meaningless, because everyone chose the easiest dailies and got them done fast as they could.

Isn’t that exactly what you advocate doing now? All those “but they can be done in 5 minutes flats” arguments hinge exactly on that kind of behaviour – taking the optimal (requiring the least work) dailies and doing them as fast as possible.

Vayne.8563:

What most people are really arguing about is that they want their easy achievement points back, when achievement points don’t make you more powerful and won’t win the game for you.

But they are nice to have. Honestly, the whole point of this game was to go mostly at things that aren’t powerful, that won’t win the game for you, but are still desirable to obtain for other, non-stat related reasons.

I agree. It’s the point of the game. Anet has made getting those points a bit inconvenient. That’s the complaint. The loot that we used to get isn’t a problem. We get more. And if we used to go for ten achievement points a day, this is a lot easier and faster.

The people who are most inconvenienced are the people who don’t want to go even a little out of their way to get achievement points. That is exactly the point.

Yes, I think it’s better for the game that people have to do something to get achievement points. But that’s only one man’s opinion, which is meaningless.

I understand you feel differently.

Vayne.8563:

Did they nerf the dailies or did they create a completely new daily though? Because the old daily rewards you get for logging in. The whole system is different.

They didn’t take away dailies. The replacement for the old daily is the log in rewards. The new dailies are something that were never in the game before and if Anet had called them something other than dailies we’d not likely be having this conversation.

Rubbish. The log in rewards replace nothing. They just provided an excuse to remove certain rewards from the dailies. That, compounded by the pedestrian, asinine new PvE dailies, makes them several orders of magnitude less attractive to go after. There is not a shred of fun to be found in the new PvE dailies, making the whole system completely antithetical to the reasons why mentally healthy people play games: having fun. The only people served by this new system are the obsessives, and they’d be much better served by just taking the game away from them and putting them somewhere they can’t hurt themselves.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Did they nerf the dailies or did they create a completely new daily though? Because the old daily rewards you get for logging in. The whole system is different.

They didn’t take away dailies. The replacement for the old daily is the log in rewards. The new dailies are something that were never in the game before and if Anet had called them something other than dailies we’d not likely be having this conversation.

Rubbish. The log in rewards replace nothing. They just provided an excuse to remove certain rewards from the dailies. That, compounded by the pedestrian, asinine new PvE dailies, makes them several orders of magnitude less attractive to go after. There is not a shred of fun to be found in the new PvE dailies, making the whole system completely antithetical to the reasons why mentally healthy people play games: having fun. The only people served by this new system are the obsessives, and they’d be much better served by just taking the game away from them and putting them somewhere they can’t hurt themselves.

Actually it’s not rubbish. The new dailies have rewards associated with them and appear in a format that never existed before. They are a new thing, not an old thing.

I wasn’t talking about the new dailies. What I thought was rubbish was clearly stated after that word: “The log in rewards replace nothing.”

They obviously didn’t create log in rewards to replace a reward no longer earned by completing dailies. They could’ve just left them there and not give out log in rewards.

They created log in rewards because they wanted the game to have log in rewards, and they stripped away the laurel and occasional random BLC item from the daily completion rewards so there wouldn’t be too many easy rewards. It’s ludicrous to think that the log in rewards are just there to replace daily rewards.

And you vastly overstate the ‘new-ness’ of the new dailies. The only difference is the nature of the tasks (and that’s not even true for all game modes), the rewards and the obtrusive way they push them in our faces when we log in. They’re not a “new” thing, they’re a degenerate version of something that existed since launch.

Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people. That changed with the last incarnation, but it still didn’t do what Anet was trying to do. So they changed it.

They couldn’t change it by taking away rewards, so the old dailies were completely retired. They’re encouraging people with more achievement points now and new rewards. To do what they tried to do originally.

If they’re just giving you stuff for doing what you’re doing anyway, there’s no reason you should get it, particularly an achievement.

Vayne.8563:

Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people. That changed with the last incarnation, but it still didn’t do what Anet was trying to do. So they changed it.

Not quite. What they did want is for people to play everywhere. To spread out across all zones and game modes. Currently this has changed to channeling people towards selected parts of the game. Dailies now cause people to congregate in specific places, activities, and even times (the world boss daily). I’d say that this is completely contrary to the original idea.

Perhaps this means that the population has declined enough that spreading out is no longer enough to get a sensible player populations at different zones. That you need to gather everyone in the same place to give an ilusion of healthy and populated game.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people. That changed with the last incarnation, but it still didn’t do what Anet was trying to do. So they changed it.

Not quite. What they did want is for people to play everywhere. To spread out across all zones and game modes. Currently this has changed to channeling people towards selected parts of the game. Dailies now cause people to congregate in specific places, activities, and even times (the world boss daily). I’d say that this is completely contrary to the original idea.

I’m not sure where you got that. It was always about funneling people to specific areas. It’s what the living story does. It’s what world bosses do.

If you didn’t have that traffic control, the game would seem emptier and there are a whole lot of people out there who want to see a lot of other people.

Vayne.8563:

If you didn’t have that traffic control, the game would seem emptier and there are a whole lot of people out there who want to see a lot of other people.

Yes, that is now. The idea behind dailies was created when there was still lot of people playing, though. There’s a reason why this is the first incarnation of dailies with zone-specific achievements (there were region-specific ones before, but, from what i remember, they were less about making people go to those regions, and more about getting them out of Orr).

Ehhh . . . I’m not seeing less choice.

I’m seeing the same meaninglessness of a lot of choices I could be making as before. There’s not a compelling reason to really go do things other than “I think I want to do that today”. Sure there’s the daily achievements but . . . even back in the system before last week I didn’t feel compelled to do any of it.

A lot of it might be because I’m a veteran player and don’t really need a lot of what it gets me. AP? Please, I’ve still got a lot of Agent of Entropy to work on, not to mention pages of Season 2 entries! Loot? World Boss Grand Tour, full stop. Materials? See last, add salvage kits. Karma? For what? Laurels? I don’t plan on setting foot in Fractals more than casually, and I was working slowly on my Ascended armor anyway so why need more Infusion slots I won’t use?

. . . guh, seriously, I still play this game and I still enjoy it because I can fool around and do stuff without really worrying about losing anything over not doing it perfectly or having to meet friends for “Raid Night” or else I wind up losing out on progression. There’s no pressure for me to get things done at anything other than my own pace.

And I still have the choice of what to do, including whether or not to go World Boss Touring or to just hop in WvW and see what I can do for a couple hours.

Ashen.2907:

draxynnic.3719:

you’re bouncing around the world rather than having fun.

Those are not mutually exclusive.

Depends on how you look at it. Spending money on waypoints or time running between locations, and additional time looking at loading screens (particularly if you have a slower machine in that respect) is not fun. And there’s certainly no correlation between visiting three different places and fun, especially if you were having plenty of fun where you were.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure where you got that. It was always about funneling people to specific areas. It’s what the living story does. It’s what world bosses do.

More rubbish.

Are you seriously claiming that these were about funneling people to specific areas?

• Daily Kill Variety (Tiers for 5, 8, 11, and 15 different enemies)
• Daily Kills (Tiers for 10, 30, and 60 foes)
• Daily Gatherer (Tiers for 3, 10, and 20 gatherings)
• Daily Events (Tiers for 1, 3, and 5 events)

You just make stuff up as you go along, don’t you?

Vayne.8563:

If you didn’t have that traffic control, the game would seem emptier and there are a whole lot of people out there who want to see a lot of other people.

Yeah, it’s sure cozy on top of that building near the statue in the Black Citadel.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

If you didn’t have that traffic control, the game would seem emptier and there are a whole lot of people out there who want to see a lot of other people.

Yes, that is now. The idea behind dailies was created when there was still lot of people playing, though. There’s a reason why this is the first incarnation of dailies with zone-specific achievements (there were region-specific ones before, but, from what i remember, they were less about making people go to those regions, and more about getting them out of Orr).

I think you’re rewriting history a bit. First of all, before April 15th there was no mega server. There were never enough people on lower pop servers to fill the all the areas in the game at the same time on every server. Even shortly after launch. Once you divide the population into different time zones, WvW, PvP and dungeons, open world, the middle zones were dead on lots of servers.

And to add to that point, the early incarnations of dailies did have a lot more specific dailies and it changed at a certain point, but it didn’t do anything. That is to say, the same zones were busy as were always busy.

However, I don’t think any MMO, not even WoW, has enough people playing at the same time to fill every zone on every server. That’s just a fool’s errand.

So all these games direct traffic. Rift did it. Guild Wars 2 did it. Holidays, Living Story, it all was geared to get people to common areas.

This is no different.

yolo swaggins.2570:

But restricting existing features will only irritate the playerbase more than motivate them to explore other parts of the game. You simply can’t push players into content. All you can do is attract them.

In my eyes, this decision is meant to suppress the hunger for content by getting players used to content they would not normally try. It is not going to work as well as they want.

- good statement

I remember WvW-season one and what it did to cues: it´s also not always the best for the specific game-mode to force players into them. The same goes for the new pvp-dailies, calling for special classes can be bad, going in as a new player, beeing stomped all over can be bad.

Improvements to pvp and wvw are the real way to go.

Over all I have mixed feelings concerning the daily and would appreciate more Pve-options. I was also someone who never did the old full 10 AP-daily – but it still was nice to receive a few AP for actually playing the game.

Besides the rewards it gave some structure to my playing time while still giving enough room to play where and whatever I wanted and left atleast a little feeling of accomplishment – while a part of the new dailies often is too much of an annoyance and waste for me.

The wintersday-meta is simply a bad joke in a MMO and makes me ask the sanity of some decision-makers – and of future metas.

Almost the same goes for the mostly failed trait-revamp and how they can leave that mess that long while on the other hand they want to bring new players to the game, who really suffer from those changes the most.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure where you got that. It was always about funneling people to specific areas. It’s what the living story does. It’s what world bosses do.

More rubbish.

Are you seriously claiming that these were about funneling people to specific areas?

• Daily Kill Variety (Tiers for 5, 8, 11, and 15 different enemies)
• Daily Kills (Tiers for 10, 30, and 60 foes)
• Daily Gatherer (Tiers for 3, 10, and 20 gatherings)
• Daily Events (Tiers for 1, 3, and 5 events)

You just make stuff up as you go along, don’t you?

Actually, he’s said that stuff WASN’T working as they wanted, so they changed it.

Vayne.8563:

Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people. That changed with the last incarnation, but it still didn’t do what Anet was trying to do. So they changed it.

They couldn’t change it by taking away rewards, so the old dailies were completely retired. They’re encouraging people with more achievement points now and new rewards. To do what they tried to do originally.

If they’re just giving you stuff for doing what you’re doing anyway, there’s no reason you should get it, particularly an achievement.

Actually, he said this:

“Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people.”

That was nonsense.

Then he said this, also about the dailies: “It was always about funneling people to specific areas.”

More nonsense.

Because these were the original dailies:

• Daily Kill Variety (Tiers for 5, 8, 11, and 15 different enemies)
• Daily Kills (Tiers for 10, 30, and 60 foes)
• Daily Gatherer (Tiers for 3, 10, and 20 gatherings)
• Daily Events (Tiers for 1, 3, and 5 events)

And they were obviously not about “getting people to places they wanted people” or “funneling people to specific areas”.

I don’t know why you quoted me, your reply has no bearing on what I said.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

If you didn’t have that traffic control, the game would seem emptier and there are a whole lot of people out there who want to see a lot of other people.

Yes, that is now. The idea behind dailies was created when there was still lot of people playing, though. There’s a reason why this is the first incarnation of dailies with zone-specific achievements (there were region-specific ones before, but, from what i remember, they were less about making people go to those regions, and more about getting them out of Orr).

I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage. Even though it is inconvenient I almost never pay for waypoints, except when I die. I use asura gates, waypoints in cities and run everywhere else. But with these new specific requirements for dailies I have paid for waypoints much more than I usually do.

I’m currently working on completing Blazeridge Steps on my engineer. In the past I could have stayed in that map to get 4 Ascalon events but instead I had to run her down to Fields of Ruin, which she’s already got, to do 4 events. Was this requirement any harder than doing 4 general Ascalon events? No, but it was more inconvenient because I refused to pay for the waypoint. Did I linger to play after I got the 4 events? No. I probably would have finished 100%ing Blazeridge Steps if the old daily system was still in effect.

Lazuli.2098:

~Snip~

I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage.
~Snip~

Revenue for who, A.net?, you do realize that waypoints take Silver and Copper to use, those are in-game currency, not real life dollars, and if you don’t have a few Silver on you at any given time to use a couple of WP’s…that’s an entirely separate issue.

Zaklex.6308:

Lazuli.2098:

~Snip~

I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage.
~Snip~

Revenue for who, A.net?, you do realize that waypoints take Silver and Copper to use, those are in-game currency, not real life dollars, and if you don’t have a few Silver on you at any given time to use a couple of WP’s…that’s an entirely separate issue.

The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.

Subdue.5479:

Zaklex.6308:

Lazuli.2098:

~Snip~

I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage.
~Snip~

Revenue for who, A.net?, you do realize that waypoints take Silver and Copper to use, those are in-game currency, not real life dollars, and if you don’t have a few Silver on you at any given time to use a couple of WP’s…that’s an entirely separate issue.

The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.

Ha! I’m sure someone buys gems with cash, convert it to gold just because the nickle and dime cost of waypoints makes saving coin impossible. If it costs so much, get off the train. Or walk.

Behellagh.1468:

Subdue.5479:

Zaklex.6308:

Lazuli.2098:

~Snip~

I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage.
~Snip~

Revenue for who, A.net?, you do realize that waypoints take Silver and Copper to use, those are in-game currency, not real life dollars, and if you don’t have a few Silver on you at any given time to use a couple of WP’s…that’s an entirely separate issue.

The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.

Ha! I’m sure someone buys gems with cash, convert it to gold just because the nickle and dime cost of waypoints makes saving coin impossible. If it costs so much, get off the train. Or walk.

Wp costs are not a not deal to me, and they may not be for you either, but just reading through all the wp whining will show it is a big deal for some.

To me, GW2 was a fantasy world I could journey each day and select my own adventure, and be rewarded for it. At the end of each day, I had sometimes hours of fun because I got to wander wherever I wanted. And sometime during my wandering I’d have slayed 50 foes, performed 4 good deeds helping NPC in events, … and somehow I came out a hero for the day.

Now, the fun is .. dictated. Mm, gamemaster says go to Frostgorge, but I feel like wandering a green Spring themed zone today and as my 4th level Asura. Gamemaster says, “No daily quest here for you.”

Ok. I don’t want the current daily reward. I’m willing to give it up, even though I had enjoyed building AP, feeling that score showing my long-term committed achievement as a hero in the GW2 world. Lol. Guess I’m no longer going to be a hero in Tyria.

Mmm, somehow not many people are around me. Even when there is a dynamic event, people seem to just run by. After all, there is no longer incentive for many of them to do it. They are just gathering, or running away.

Seems to me the game is dying in many zones.

My only guess in why ANet chose to go this route: An expansion is coming.

ANet is setting up for it so that there won’t be too many vacant zones once the game may run for 10 years and can end up with too many vacant zones. So it is setting up to focus all players in one zone, making sure all level 80 characters are there to support the level 80 zones, all newbies will get their own focus zone, without level 80s trampling them.

Mmm, nice purpose, but something is lacking in the implementation. It is indeed feeling too restrictive. If all I am going to get is a very strict gamemaster, I won’t be staying long in this world.

At a minimum, please have the daily quest match the level of the character that is logged in. It’d also help to have 5 racial zones for each 10 level-spread or something, selected daily so players can at least suit their mood of the day.

Player flow will still be continuous throughout levels. With mega-server helping, it should not be too hard to fill 5 instances. In the long run it is good for a game to keep all levels of zones populated to encourage interaction between long-time and new players. My new Asura toon had a blast helping new players in the last few weeks in starting zones when he was doing his daily. Now I’m supposed to play my level 80 to be a hero. What hero?

BlueOcean.5380:

To me, GW2 was a fantasy world I could journey each day and select my own adventure, and be rewarded for it.

And this is still the case.

Ashen.2907:

BlueOcean.5380:

To me, GW2 was a fantasy world I could journey each day and select my own adventure, and be rewarded for it.

And this is still the case.

Allow me to clarify: For me the reward for playing a game is fun. The problem atm is many zones are dying as a result of people totally ignoring dynamic events. (Not on the list of daily.)

I don’t care about AP, laurel, etc. as much as fun. If the fun is not there, no amount of AP, laurel is worth it. People, other players, are the fun.

BlueOcean.5380:

Ashen.2907:

BlueOcean.5380:

To me, GW2 was a fantasy world I could journey each day and select my own adventure, and be rewarded for it.

And this is still the case.

Allow me to clarify: For me the reward for playing a game is fun. The problem atm is many zones are dying as a result of people totally ignoring dynamic events. (Not on the list of daily.)

I don’t care about AP, laurel, etc. as much as fun. If the fun is not there, no amount of AP, laurel is worth it. People, other players, are the fun.

I see.

I wasn’t seeing events getting all that much attention, certainly not any more than is now the case, before the change. With certain, farmable, exceptions of course.

The joy of the new dailies for me is that I can complete whatever is required in order to get the reward faster than has ever been the case (for me) and so get on with what I want to do in game. I have limited play time and so being able to get my laurels immediately and my APs within as little as 4 minutes means that more of my play time can be spent doing whatever suits my fancy that day.

I confess, I don’t play events anymore. Why? Because I no longer get an AP when I’ve done 5 on a day, and I don’t get a laurel when I get to 5 AP. I just run past or through events, on my way to where I want to be. The pitiful few coppers and smattering of karma isn’t worth the delay.

Ashen.2907:

BlueOcean.5380:

Ashen.2907:

BlueOcean.5380:

To me, GW2 was a fantasy world I could journey each day and select my own adventure, and be rewarded for it.

And this is still the case.

Allow me to clarify: For me the reward for playing a game is fun. The problem atm is many zones are dying as a result of people totally ignoring dynamic events. (Not on the list of daily.)

I don’t care about AP, laurel, etc. as much as fun. If the fun is not there, no amount of AP, laurel is worth it. People, other players, are the fun.

I see.

I wasn’t seeing events getting all that much attention, certainly not any more than is now the case, before the change. With certain, farmable, exceptions of course.

The joy of the new dailies for me is that I can complete whatever is required in order to get the reward faster than has ever been the case (for me) and so get on with what I want to do in game. I have limited play time and so being able to get my laurels immediately and my APs within as little as 4 minutes means that more of my play time can be spent doing whatever suits my fancy that day.

Actually I share your joy. I was initially very happy (being I’m busy) to just log in and get laurel. I did not miss AP one bit. But then I realized I enjoy hanging out with people in a more conversational way then zergs allow. :P Went to lowbie zone and had fun hanging out with a newbie. But when played my mid-level toon (around 54) it seems the zone was dead. People just ran by. None stopped for dynamic events. It felt empty (both in zone and in heart.) What? NPC needs help and everyone just ran away. Nobody rezzed either. Haha.. The fantasy world of heroes seems shallow and untrue now. :p

I came to realize my initial euphoria about log-in reward was not working out for me at all. Yikes…

Manasa Devi.7958:

I confess, I don’t play events anymore. Why? Because I no longer get an AP when I’ve done 5 on a day, and I don’t get a laurel when I get to 5 AP. I just run past or through events, on my way to where I want to be. The pitiful few coppers and smattering of karma isn’t worth the delay.

Huh. I do events for the fun of doing it, really. I did them for that reason a long time ago when I passed the point where the Karma was pointless for me, as was the cash award. I just liked doing them, rather than rushing through them and ignoring them.

I think the only places I seriously do that are starter zones . . . so I can leave players with a more appropriate level something to do. But with resource nodes being thinned out in starter zones, and no need for Copper/Green Wood I generally don’t bother starting zones unless I am after something specific.

Yes. I’m very weird

Subdue.5479:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure where you got that. It was always about funneling people to specific areas. It’s what the living story does. It’s what world bosses do.

More rubbish.

Are you seriously claiming that these were about funneling people to specific areas?

• Daily Kill Variety (Tiers for 5, 8, 11, and 15 different enemies)
• Daily Kills (Tiers for 10, 30, and 60 foes)
• Daily Gatherer (Tiers for 3, 10, and 20 gatherings)
• Daily Events (Tiers for 1, 3, and 5 events)

You just make stuff up as you go along, don’t you?

Actually, he’s said that stuff WASN’T working as they wanted, so they changed it.

Vayne.8563:

Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people. That changed with the last incarnation, but it still didn’t do what Anet was trying to do. So they changed it.

They couldn’t change it by taking away rewards, so the old dailies were completely retired. They’re encouraging people with more achievement points now and new rewards. To do what they tried to do originally.

If they’re just giving you stuff for doing what you’re doing anyway, there’s no reason you should get it, particularly an achievement.

You don’t remember the original dailies do you? lol

Subdue.5479:

Zaklex.6308:

Lazuli.2098:

~Snip~

I’m also wondering if the reason the requirements are so specific is to generate more revenue via waypoint usage.
~Snip~

Revenue for who, A.net?, you do realize that waypoints take Silver and Copper to use, those are in-game currency, not real life dollars, and if you don’t have a few Silver on you at any given time to use a couple of WP’s…that’s an entirely separate issue.

The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.

But you get more money in the rewards now anyway. Rewards are worth more. Let’s pretend you do the daily gatherer and you sell the stuff you get from it. You’ve paid for your waypoints and more.

Vayne.8563:

Subdue.5479:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure where you got that. It was always about funneling people to specific areas. It’s what the living story does. It’s what world bosses do.

More rubbish.

Are you seriously claiming that these were about funneling people to specific areas?

• Daily Kill Variety (Tiers for 5, 8, 11, and 15 different enemies)
• Daily Kills (Tiers for 10, 30, and 60 foes)
• Daily Gatherer (Tiers for 3, 10, and 20 gatherings)
• Daily Events (Tiers for 1, 3, and 5 events)

You just make stuff up as you go along, don’t you?

Actually, he’s said that stuff WASN’T working as they wanted, so they changed it.

Vayne.8563:

Anet had a reason to create dailies. To get people to places they wanted people. That changed with the last incarnation, but it still didn’t do what Anet was trying to do. So they changed it.

They couldn’t change it by taking away rewards, so the old dailies were completely retired. They’re encouraging people with more achievement points now and new rewards. To do what they tried to do originally.

If they’re just giving you stuff for doing what you’re doing anyway, there’s no reason you should get it, particularly an achievement.

You don’t remember the original dailies do you? lol

Yes I do, I quoted them in the post you quoted.

I have noticed a big shift in their choice of design this year. It feels as if they are moving the opposite direction from the one they originally started out on. As a scientist, I have to wonder why. I wonder what lead to these choices and what is the primary driving force behind them. It would be nice to know, but that is something we will probably never know.

I would love to be a fly on the wall so to speak, during one of their meetings and hear about their reasoning, justification and evaluation of these decisions. That is something I always wonder about, and for some reason it feels such a mystery with Anet. Other producers/developers I’ve followed I always felt more informed about where things are going, or reasons for decisions. Not so here.

Most of Anet’s changes seem to be gift baskets bought and paid for by us, to themselves, with some pageantry they seem to hope will make us think any of it is for us or to our benefit.

I do not believe much of their design philosophy has changed in ways that will benefit us in the future, as I look at things like the new trait unlocking ‘feature’ and I cannot feel that they haven’t done far more damage than they’ve ameliorated in anything else.

I don’t dislike everything they’ve done, but the things I do dislike, I dislike so broadly and intensely that I basically don’t care about the rest. For the social circle I keep, this seems to be a very common way to feel.

Its hard for me to engage in civil discussion on it, in any case. I’ve been playing MMO’s since UO was a new idea. I’ve seen every sort of discussion anybody can ever have about MMO’s, and I’ve seen what they almost invariably amount to – screaming into a digital void.

You can’t reason with the void. The developmental gods like to tell us they value our input and its very important, but I don’t really believe that. I think they ‘listen’ to whatever people are saying that echoes their own voices and do whatever they intended to do anyway.

I do not believe anything we say, unless we say it in ways or places that cause financial disruption, means anything at all, because we, this forum and everything to do with all of it are enormously ignorable. Here’s the hamster wheel, run on it and vent and complain until you’ve exhausted all emotion that might’ve elsewise fueled figuring out something actually damaging (useful or not) to do about it.

Anet is going to do what Anet wants. If you would like to file a complaint, please press one; para español oprima dos. Please be aware that due to high volume, your wait time may be extended, though your opinion is very important to us.