Guild Wars 2

I am wondering if Arenanet would mind commenting on their plans for our existing gear following the trait system reset.

Firstly, don’t get me wrong – separating stats from traits is a great idea and I’m all for it

However, the problem as I see with it is that if I am running toughness and vitality stats in my trait lines and zerker stats in my weapon and armour then when the trait system resets I will lose my toughness and vitality points and gain zerker stats from my weapons and armour.

So in order to restore my build’s balance I would now need acquire new weapons/armour.

It seems this reset may throw out the balance of hybrid stat builds.

I am hoping your answer will be that you are offering a one time stat reset on all of our soulbound gear so we can rework our builds following the reset.

If you can’t reveal the plans yet it would be nice to know if the issue is at least under consideration in some regard.

Thank you.

Perhaps, you could just replace your existing trinkets or upgrades with those featuring Toughness/Vitality etc.

Good luck.

You do reallize that if you just swap out 1~2 accessories you should be able to get the same stats? And if you go by their previous actions they won’t reset anyone’s gear.

armor – full zerker set
trinket – full celestial set

I think this is actually great.
For example thieves in PVP generally all take 6 in trickery.
That gives them 300 condition damage.
Majority of the thieves actually play D/P or, rarer, S/D, both of which are power-based.
That’s 300 stats down the drain, which will be rebalanced into much more useful vitality, power,precision,ferocity on the amulet.
That’s my take on it anyways. So this change is actually amazing.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, you could just replace your existing trinkets or upgrades with those featuring Toughness/Vitality etc.

Good luck.

Uh, well that was sort of the point of my post: I don’t think we should have to do that.

Amulet: 20 laurels + 250 badges

Rings: 25 laurels + 250 badges

Accessories: 40 laurels + 50 ecto

Given the stats don’t translate directly (2 stats for a trait line vs 3 for a trinket) then I could see myself adjusting 150 laurels worth of gear to rebalance just for 1 of my 8 alts.

Evalia.7103:

I think this is actually great.
For example thieves in PVP generally all take 6 in trickery.
That gives them 300 condition damage.
Majority of the thieves actually play D/P or, rarer, S/D, both of which are power-based.
That’s 300 stats down the drain, which will be rebalanced into much more useful vitality, power,precision,ferocity on the amulet.
That’s my take on it anyways. So this change is actually amazing.

I think you missed my point about this being for people that want hybrid stat combinations.

I also said I wasn’t against this change, simply the re-gearing cost.

Varezenem.2813:

You do reallize that if you just swap out 1~2 accessories you should be able to get the same stats? And if you go by their previous actions they won’t reset anyone’s gear.

Let’s say (for sake of example) someone has a build with the following stats contributed from traits:

Trait line 1:
+300 power
+300 condi duration

Trait line 2:
+300 precision
+300 condi damage

Trait line 3:
+100 toughnesss
+100 (10%) boon duration

What two accessories could you purchase to restore this balance? I think you’d struggle to restore this without altering all your trinkets. That could be up to 150 laurels per alt.

Varezenem.2813:

And if you go by their previous actions they won’t reset anyone’s gear.

They did it with magic find so I don’t think you’re giving them enough credit.

azizul.8469:

armor – full zerker set
trinket – full celestial set

Shotgun approach to stats doesn’t work for me thanks.

use guild commendations for accessories. save laurel a bit.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I am wondering if Arenanet would mind commenting on their plans for our existing gear following the trait system reset.

Firstly, don’t get me wrong – separating stats from traits is a great idea and I’m all for it

However, the problem as I see with it is that if I am running toughness and vitality stats in my trait lines and zerker stats in my weapon and armour then when the trait system resets I will lose my toughness and vitality points and gain zerker stats from my weapons and armour.

So in order to restore my build’s balance I would now need acquire new weapons/armour.

It seems this reset may throw out the balance of hybrid stat builds.

I am hoping your answer will be that you are offering a one time stat reset on all of our soulbound gear so we can rework our builds following the reset.

If you can’t reveal the plans yet it would be nice to know if the issue is at least under consideration in some regard.

Thank you.

Their plans are going to amount to “tough kitten, adapt or stagnate.” Frankly it’s the smart move. Many builds dont go into the “nonstandard” trait lines for the stats, but the traits IN them. At best you’d lose incidental stats. At worst you’d simply need to swap out trinkets, which, iirc, would give similar stats to what you’d be losing from traits.

edit: magic find is the exception, not the rule, because that was a statistic REMOVED FROM GEAR. There’s no trait for MF.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Varezenem.2813:

You do reallize that if you just swap out 1~2 accessories you should be able to get the same stats? And if you go by their previous actions they won’t reset anyone’s gear.

Let’s say (for sake of example) someone has a build with the following stats contributed from traits:

Trait line 1:
+300 power
+300 condi duration

Trait line 2:
+300 precision
+300 condi damage

Trait line 3:
+100 toughnesss
+100 (10%) boon duration

What two accessories could you purchase to restore this balance? I think you’d struggle to restore this without altering all your trinkets. That could be up to 150 laurels per alt.

Considering toughness is probably going to be incidental in that build, it’s a nonissue. Furthermore, if those are the stats in your build, unless you’re running something else on your necro for some ungodly reason, you dont need to change your armor or weapons, because they SHOULD BE GIVING YOU those stats (aside from %duration).

That being said, there is nothing to restore. A build with those stats, which, unfortunately for you, I run on my own necro, is going to be wearing armor that provides at least 2 of those stats. All three if you’re running a hybrid build (IE rampager or sinister armor, or the third variant if it exists). Same with your trinkets. Net stat loss? 100 toughness, 10% boon duration, MAYBE 30% condi duration (they havent said anything about condi duration). A negligible amount.

Also, a side note, in the same time you can get your accessories replaced (22 days), you can also get your rings replaced (20 days [minus dailies]). All of which will probably be comparatively faster than replacing your amulet. Only someone who cant find a guild doing missions able to give out temp invites (or doesnt like guilds), and refuses to find 4 other people to regularly do a single set of low level fractals, would need to spend laurels on everything.

don’t forget, ANETdid mention that baseline stats for each class will be increased, as well as base attribute points on equipment.

base stats will be upped from 926 to 1000, so 74 points, the additional; 26 toughness you’ll be missing is easily corrected by changing 1 trinket.

When looking for most PvE builds this change is a HUGE QoL update, for WvW this is a bit worse… but we are said to gain a lot on WvW change… We’ll see..

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

They did it with magic find so I don’t think you’re giving them enough credit.

That was only for the primary magic find stat combo because it was removed from the game. Celestial was not given that opportunity. People complained then, nothing happened.

Another example is the change to crit damage. They didn’t offer refunds either.

There is no chance that they’ll offer gear swaps. If they implemented a trade-in vendor, you would lose your upgrades. If they handed it like magic find, every item would have to be duplicated into two versions, which is a huge waste. If they were going to do anything, they would simply add a new UI for the stats instead of automatically adding them to gear. The problem with that however is that the more casual audience doesn’t want to bother with it. It would have the same problem as the original traits that used 5 points per trait.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, you could just replace your existing trinkets or upgrades with those featuring Toughness/Vitality etc.

Good luck.

Uh, well that was sort of the point of my post: I don’t think we should have to do that.

Amulet: 20 laurels + 250 badges

Rings: 25 laurels + 250 badges

Accessories: 40 laurels + 50 ecto

Given the stats don’t translate directly (2 stats for a trait line vs 3 for a trinket) then I could see myself adjusting 150 laurels worth of gear to rebalance just for 1 of my 8 alts.

Rings come from fractals.
Guild Missions/Dungeoneer(only expense comes from 2nd sets of dungeoneer) for Earrings
2 Amulets a month from Laurels
Backpiece.. is the only real difficulty.

I’d rather hear from Arenanet because I think most of the arguments here are flawed.

Most people are thinking lineally. Hopefully ANet are basing their stat changes on a method that requires minimal gear changes, and hence player cost. One way to keep people a bit happy is a one-time stat change on all gear including 1 for 1 account bound trinket swaping. Otherwise the cost of re-gearing for people who don’t have a store of these things will be prohibitive.

I think the only thing you guys should be worrying about right now is the lost in 30% condition duration and 30% boon duration that has been compensated by nothing.

They’re not going to give you an answer because they don’t care. Once something is announced, it’s long past discussion time.

For what it’s worth, you’re right. The fact that baseline stats are changing is immaterial; 5% more toughness when everyone has 5% more power means you’re taking the same amount of damage. It becomes problematic when you’ve lost more than they have.

Yes, the mantra is “Trait for abilities, not for stats.” However, those stats are a part of why certain builds work. Upward of 300 points in an attribute is nothing to sneeze at. Let’s consider a build that currently has 300 points of Vitality from traits and uses Soldier’s armor (+235 Vitality), but no Vitality from trinkets. Assuming gear gets a 5% increase (I believe that’s what I read) and the character baseline is increased to 1000, then the character has lost a net of 214 Vitality, or 2,140 HP: a loss of 40% of its bonus HP over profession baseline, or about 14.5% of its total Vitality.

Conversely, a full Power build (300 in the Power traitline, plus all Power primary gear) is losing a net of 172 Power, or around 7.5% of its total Power. All else being equal, the Power build will now do more damage as a percentage of total health to the Vitality build unless the latter gets new gear.

Of course, it really doesn’t matter for PvE, where there are only three stats and you don’t have to worry about profession balance. Any time something seems confusing, just remember that every decision is made with PvE first and foremost in mind and the consequences on the other game modes are just casualties.

At least WvW has the option to make new gear, pain though it’s going to be. Many PvP builds rely on the extra Boon Duration or Toughness or Healing that isn’t going to appear on the best amulet. There are going to be changes. We have yet to see whether things will be better or worse, but I’d rather they spare us the deceit about how they worked to make sure most existing builds are still viable with the new setup. Yeah, the same traits will be there, but all the balance from the stats is gone.

It’s a shame, because the stats on the traitlines represented tradeoffs — giving up damage for team support (SA, Shoutbow, Cele Ele), giving up survival for damage (PS, Shatter, Fresh Air), giving up burst for a little bit of sustain or control (Acro, Medi, Terror) — choices that no longer have to be made. It wasn’t the largest part of making builds, but there was some nuance to it. Soon, everyone will have Panic Strike (thanks so much for making that baseline — seriously when I play my thief and sarcastically when I’m anything else!) and if something gets out of hand it’s less work for them to fix it.

Just because you think they’re flawed it doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

In all previous changes with traits Anet has not given stat resets on armor. The only time they’ve given a stat reset is when they eliminated Magic Find as a stat. This time they aren’t eliminating anything, they’re just changing numbers.

You could also take the line of thought that you bought it and used it and now you want to exchange it. Most companies will give you a grace period for that of 30 days or so, which is fair. You’ve had your armor more than 30 days, you aren’t eligible for an exchange.

Face it, MMOs change, stats get adjusted, things get balanced, metas shift, etc. Part of the risk you take when you create your build is that things will change and your build will need to change with it. It’s part of the nature of MMOs. Anet would be creating an unending amount of problems for themselves if they gave out stat resets and it’s unlikely to happen.

One thing I can guarantee though, they will not come here and talk to you about their plans. Beyond token responses, Anet has made their communications policy abundantly clear.

Aomine.5012:

I think the only thing you guys should be worrying about right now is the lost in 30% condition duration and 30% boon duration that has been compensated by nothing.

As it stands, I’m reserving any comments on the state of Conditions until I see how all the changes fall out. Between this (the duration loss), the scaling change, Resistance (I think it’s called), and everything else, I get the sense Condi builds are just going to play differently from how they do now.

(Let’s not even get into how a lot of builds are losing 20% crit damage, which is hard to replace with gear — many already have Ferocity on everything, but it’s never a primary stat. Again, probably a change made for PvE.)

Torsailr.8456:

. . . MMOs change, stats get adjusted, things get balanced, metas shift, etc. Part of the risk you take when you create your build is that things will change and your build will need to change with it. It’s part of the nature of MMOs.

This is the other part of it. I’ve been through regearing before in another MMO when they decided to change how stats worked. It’s a pain, but it’s part of the deal. I’m just not making any more gear until the changes go through and we see how things are.

It doesn’t help PvP, of course, but a new set of “best builds” will emerge, same as always.

On the OP’s question I doubt they will allow gear swaps but since getting new trinkets isn’t so hard you can change them to tweak your build.

Varezenem.2813:

You do reallize that if you just swap out 1~2 accessories you should be able to get the same stats? And if you go by their previous actions they won’t reset anyone’s gear.

It’s more than 1-2 trinkets to get the same stats. Suppose that a character is using Berserker gear (Pow/Pre/Fer) and wants to get the same Toughness/Vitality as 2 maximum trait lines (+300 on both)

If you use Soldier’s gear you will need to change Amulet + 1 Ring + 2 Accessories + Back to get +308 on both, so it’s not like changing 1-2 trinkets will give the same stats, you need to change all of them. With Exotic you need to change Amulet + 2 Ring + 1 Accessories + Back to get +305 on both attributes.

Now if you don’t require 2 stats but only 1 then it’s much easier because you can change the primary stat of the trinkets, 2 Accessories + Amulet = +308 attribute points or 2 rings + accessory for 297

Ocosh.5843:

They’re not going to give you an answer because they don’t care. Once something is announced, it’s long past discussion time.

For what it’s worth, you’re right. The fact that baseline stats are changing is immaterial; 5% more toughness when everyone has 5% more power means you’re taking the same amount of damage. It becomes problematic when you’ve lost more than they have.

Yes, the mantra is “Trait for abilities, not for stats.” However, those stats are a part of why certain builds work. Upward of 300 points in an attribute is nothing to sneeze at. Let’s consider a build that currently has 300 points of Vitality from traits and uses Soldier’s armor (+235 Vitality), but no Vitality from trinkets. Assuming gear gets a 5% increase (I believe that’s what I read) and the character baseline is increased to 1000, then the character has lost a net of 214 Vitality, or 2,140 HP: a loss of 40% of its bonus HP over profession baseline, or about 14.5% of its total Vitality.

Conversely, a full Power build (300 in the Power traitline, plus all Power primary gear) is losing a net of 172 Power, or around 7.5% of its total Power. All else being equal, the Power build will now do more damage as a percentage of total health to the Vitality build unless the latter gets new gear.

Of course, it really doesn’t matter for PvE, where there are only three stats and you don’t have to worry about profession balance. Any time something seems confusing, just remember that every decision is made with PvE first and foremost in mind and the consequences on the other game modes are just casualties.

At least WvW has the option to make new gear, pain though it’s going to be. Many PvP builds rely on the extra Boon Duration or Toughness or Healing that isn’t going to appear on the best amulet. There are going to be changes. We have yet to see whether things will be better or worse, but I’d rather they spare us the deceit about how they worked to make sure most existing builds are still viable with the new setup. Yeah, the same traits will be there, but all the balance from the stats is gone.

It’s a shame, because the stats on the traitlines represented tradeoffs — giving up damage for team support (SA, Shoutbow, Cele Ele), giving up survival for damage (PS, Shatter, Fresh Air), giving up burst for a little bit of sustain or control (Acro, Medi, Terror) — choices that no longer have to be made. It wasn’t the largest part of making builds, but there was some nuance to it. Soon, everyone will have Panic Strike (thanks so much for making that baseline — seriously when I play my thief and sarcastically when I’m anything else!) and if something gets out of hand it’s less work for them to fix it.

They’re also removing applied fortitude from killing guards. So you’re losing like 5500 HP at most post patch in WvW.

Aomine.5012:

They’re also removing applied fortitude from killing guards. So you’re losing like 5500 HP at most post patch in WvW.

Yeah, I know; it’s going to be rough. But I figured that was off-topic here, or just too painful to add to the pile. : )

My biggest concern is that the damage difference from berserker to knights, soldier
or celestial now gets bigger. At the moment if you wear armor with those stats
and the rest zerker its around 12-13% less damage .. wonder how much it will
be after the change.