Guild Wars 2

This is a term thrown around these forums left and right, but where was the original use of this term and what content was it used in? What was its intended meaning and are players quoting it correctly?

The clearest usage I’ve been able to find was in a blog post where Collin states:

“To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.”

But outside of that, the term seems to be player made. I see countless players using it, even a year before the game was released, yet nowhere can I find any official use of “play how you want” in the way players have been using it.

So please stop using it in such a broad way unless you can find a statement by ArenaNet saying otherwise. They did not promise that you’d be able to do all content with ineffective gear or builds, craft the new back piece without doing fractals, or the countless other things that players use “play how you want” for.

And even if they did say something like that things are subject to change. I know players love to bash on the manifesto but that was like how many years ago?Yeah, it didnt happn like that but thats how it is, let it finally rest godkitten it

I’ve always interpret that statement that the game allowed level advancement through various play styles. You can see this in all the different activities that award XP beyond bopping critters on the head. Crafters can level gathering and crafting. Explorers can level uncovering maps. The game’s co-opt nature means players who want to help strangers can without negatively affecting the player they are helping. Also the lack of a split XP and loot pool promotes socializing.

It’s not just bonking things in the head until you reach max level and then raid for BIS gear.

Behellagh.1468:

I’ve always interpret that statement that the game allowed level advancement through various play styles. You can see this in all the different activities that award XP beyond bopping critters on the head. Crafters can level gathering and crafting. Explorers can level uncovering maps. The game’s co-opt nature means players who want to help strangers can without negatively affecting the player they are helping. Also the lack of a split XP and loot pool promotes socializing.

It’s not just bonking things in the head until you reach max level and then raid for BIS gear.

I’ve always viewed that as part of it as well, and it makes sense. You can level up doing pretty much anything, and gear was like that too before ascended was released.

But I’ve always considered ascended gear, which was already announced when I first started, as a bone throne to traditional (read WoW) player wanting vertical progression. But instead of raiding continuously to finally get their BIS set, it’s leveling crafting and gathering exclusive mats continuously to achieve it, even if it’s arguable that BIS isn’t needed in PvE and worthless in PvP.

‘Zerker being the only viable build is not ’play how you want’.

The encounters are designed so poorly, as to actually discourage build diversity.

Change the encounters. Change dungeon design.

Bri.8354:

This is a term thrown around these forums left and right, but where was the original use of this term and what content was it used in? What was its intended meaning and are players quoting it correctly?

The clearest usage I’ve been able to find was in a blog post where Collin states:

“To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.”

But outside of that, the term seems to be player made. I see countless players using it, even a year before the game was released, yet nowhere can I find any official use of “play how you want” in the way players have been using it.

So please stop using it in such a broad way unless you can find a statement by ArenaNet saying otherwise. They did not promise that you’d be able to do all content with ineffective gear or builds, craft the new back piece without doing fractals, or the countless other things that players use “play how you want” for.

Let’s break it down then.

Their philosophy, is that players should play how they want, in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Ascended gear is the most powerful reward in the game. The attributes provide better stats.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment#Level_80_attribute_values

Can you play how you want to obtain Ascended gear? The easy answer is no.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_armor#Acquisition
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_chest

As the links above show, it can only be obtained by Ascended chests, Crafting, Living World events (back pieces), and trinkets from WvW merchants (the latter 2 aren’t mentioned in the wiki). It cannot be acquired by exploration chests, jumping puzzles, Personal Story, or SPvP (from what i know of), etc.

If anything, it doesn’t matter how you want to play, because the most powerful rewards still rely on RNG, with the few exceptions of Crafting, WvW merchants, and some Living World rewards such as the recent Mysterious Vine Back-Item, which do not rely on RNG.

I realize that statement wasn’t set in stone, and it doesn’t bother me at all whether they said it or not, but how can you say that players are taking it out of context? The latter part of the statement cannot be misinterpreted: “in order to reach the most powerful rewards”.

ipan.4356:

‘Zerker being the only viable build is not ’play how you want’.

The encounters are designed so poorly, as to actually discourage build diversity.

Change the encounters. Change dungeon design.

And this is where you listen to other people too much! There are TONS of people who don’t run Zerker (myself included on several toons), and if you do things like Teq and Wurm zerker is the most useless stat combo in the game (Read: You Cannot Crit either of those bosses). There is plenty of classes that benefit from things like Nomad’s or clerics gears, I’ve seen some really decent condi builds as well (espcially for Condi Team on Wurm). There are plenty of places where Zerker isn’t the best stat combo and I foresee them making even more in the future.

Also, at hte person above my post, you CAN get Ascended gear form anywhere. The Ascended Chest drops come from all over the world. I even had a friend get a Zojja’s weapon box from a champ in AC.

Paradox.1380:

ipan.4356:

‘Zerker being the only viable build is not ’play how you want’.

The encounters are designed so poorly, as to actually discourage build diversity.

Change the encounters. Change dungeon design.

And this is where you listen to other people too much! There are TONS of people who don’t run Zerker (myself included on several toons), and if you do things like Teq and Wurm zerker is the most useless stat combo in the game (Read: You Cannot Crit either of those bosses). There is plenty of classes that benefit from things like Nomad’s or clerics gears, I’ve seen some really decent condi builds as well (espcially for Condi Team on Wurm). There are plenty of places where Zerker isn’t the best stat combo and I foresee them making even more in the future.

Also, at hte person above my post, you CAN get Ascended gear form anywhere. The Ascended Chest drops come from all over the world. I even had a friend get a Zojja’s weapon box from a champ in AC.

Of course, who run zerker gear in front of wvw train? when i do wurm or teq i always wear ptv (or condi if i am in condi team). and even if you die it is not gonna matter much because it is open world with lots of players.

dungeon is a different story where efficiency is top priority with just 5 players. when you join a zerker group, don’t bring non-zerk stuff. you can always use other gear stats, just don’t join zerk or speed runs. no zerkers likes to carry non-zerkers. (This is the main issue in dungeon right now, non-zerkers don’t care/respect zerkers).

I understand why ‘Zerkers do what they do, and I’m fine with it – but I think Anet needs to redesign the game so that it doesn’t reward a single playstyle (or gear set) more so than others.

The problem is in the fundamental game design – not the players.

Thats an entirely different argument though being theres no Gear Check system in teh game itself. Personally, I do what is needed based on the content I am wanting to play at the time, but what I was saying is that Zerker is a niche gear for niche contents. Not everyone farms dungeons all day, and outside of dungeons where is Zerker gear absolutely needed? IMO even in Non-zerker groups the difference in clear times is a few minutes at the longest. The real key is understanding the content and knowing when and where to properly place your skills and DPS, as well as keeping up with when and where to use your defensive and dodge abilities. Dead men do no DPS regardless of gear.

This whole Zerker or GTFO has gotten outta hand and people run with it. There are places where being totally zerker is the right thing, but its not always. Also, carrying a couple non-zerkers has never been a problem for me. You barely notice in some cases. I’ve accidentally not switched gear after killing Teq one time on my Ele… Didn’t even notice until the end of all 3 paths of AC that I was still wearing my Knights gear.

To create contents that can be cleared by all kinds of gear set would be too easy.

If they changed core game design where mobs deal lots of chip damage, it would really hurt zerkers and reward bunker play style.

If they changed game design where mobs have tons of toughness and armor, this will hurt every playstyles except conditions.

the best way to do is to create encounters one after another that benefits different play-styles. but then people will complain about the needs for different gear/constant trait reset. (not even going to talk about elitisms).

rainynoble.6531:

To create contents that can be cleared by all kinds of gear set would be too easy.

If they changed core game design where mobs deal lots of chip damage, it would really hurt zerkers and reward bunker play style.

If they changed game design where mobs have tons of toughness and armor, this will hurt every playstyles except conditions.

the best way to do is to create encounters one after another that benefits different play-styles. but then people will complain about the needs for different gear/constant trait reset. (not even going to talk about elitisms).

They already have started doing this. The Wurm boss in Bloodtide Coast needs all kinds of different Stat set ups because the different mobs there do different things. I imagine as they go forward they will do this more and more.

Paradox.1380:

Thats an entirely different argument though being theres no Gear Check system in teh game itself. Personally, I do what is needed based on the content I am wanting to play at the time, but what I was saying is that Zerker is a niche gear for niche contents. Not everyone farms dungeons all day, and outside of dungeons where is Zerker gear absolutely needed? IMO even in Non-zerker groups the difference in clear times is a few minutes at the longest. The real key is understanding the content and knowing when and where to properly place your skills and DPS, as well as keeping up with when and where to use your defensive and dodge abilities. Dead men do no DPS regardless of gear.

This whole Zerker or GTFO has gotten outta hand and people run with it. There are places where being totally zerker is the right thing, but its not always. Also, carrying a couple non-zerkers has never been a problem for me. You barely notice in some cases. I’ve accidentally not switched gear after killing Teq one time on my Ele… Didn’t even notice until the end of all 3 paths of AC that I was still wearing my Knights gear.

The problem is not about needs for wearing zerker gear, it is about people asking for zerkers and we having liars who want to get carried in their nomad instead.

I pug all the time and i join “all welcome” group and speed runs indiscriminately. but when i have very little time before going out, i don’t want to see nomad-specced players. and somehow, playing zerker the way i wanted is wrong because carrying others is more important.

Paradox.1380:

rainynoble.6531:

To create contents that can be cleared by all kinds of gear set would be too easy.

If they changed core game design where mobs deal lots of chip damage, it would really hurt zerkers and reward bunker play style.

If they changed game design where mobs have tons of toughness and armor, this will hurt every playstyles except conditions.

the best way to do is to create encounters one after another that benefits different play-styles. but then people will complain about the needs for different gear/constant trait reset. (not even going to talk about elitisms).

They already have started doing this. The Wurm boss in Bloodtide Coast needs all kinds of different Stat set ups because the different mobs there do different things. I imagine as they go forward they will do this more and more.

I am talking about encounters one after another, aka in dungeons.

That is incomplete.

It’s “play how you want within the rules and intended mechanics of the game”.

If you exploit a bug, you are playing the way you want… but you are breaking the rules.

If you stack and abuse the faulty AI instead moving around dodging, you are not playing within the intended mechanics of the game.

So when they fix the bug, or when they punish players for exploiting it, or when they improve the AI or change events so petty gimmicks no longer work, players have no right to complain about that.

As for the Bersker issue, the problem derives from how ANet set the stats.

It should have been:

• Defense in armor, one accessory and one ring
• Offense in weapons, one accessory and one ring,
• And utility in some of the runes, some sigils, the amulet and back item.

So a player would choose the type of offense they want (e.g, full power, mix of power and conditions, more criticals, a mix of all), the type of defense they want, and then utilities to improve the build and change some mechanics.

Instead of that, a player can go full offense in all gear in some contexts. And if that works, they’ll expect others to do the same, eventually making anything but full offense trivial items no one uses in those contexts.

play how you want….within the rules of elitist, rushers and zergers……
ain’t i lucky i do play how i want regardless what others say.

Well, obviously “play how you want” can’t be taken completely literally because you cannot satisfy everyone’s desire. But I guess it was interpreted as being rewarded to playing the way you want within a certain range of playstyles. Surely, we can’t have people idling in Lion’s Arch and being rewarded for just walking around (though you will get a little exploration xp).

Thus far, Gw2 has generally allowed players choosing a variety of content to facilitate their progression and that’s a good thing. The trouble comes when certain types of actvies are easier than other ones and are rewarded a lot more. Or a certain activity is nerfed, creating some kind of disruption or inequality.

Paradox.1380:

Also, at hte person above my post, you CAN get Ascended gear form anywhere. The Ascended Chest drops come from all over the world. I even had a friend get a Zojja’s weapon box from a champ in AC.

Isn’t that kind of a copout though? If the main source is RNG, they could do that with literally any itemization in the game and claim that it’s “play how you want to get the best rewards,” when the reality is that it’s more like, “You get to roll a die within any kind of content to get the best rewards!”

Your vertical progression graph starts to look more like someone failing a lie detector test.

Bri.8354:

Behellagh.1468:

I’ve always interpret that statement that the game allowed level advancement through various play styles. You can see this in all the different activities that award XP beyond bopping critters on the head. Crafters can level gathering and crafting. Explorers can level uncovering maps. The game’s co-opt nature means players who want to help strangers can without negatively affecting the player they are helping. Also the lack of a split XP and loot pool promotes socializing.

It’s not just bonking things in the head until you reach max level and then raid for BIS gear.

I’ve always viewed that as part of it as well, and it makes sense. You can level up doing pretty much anything, and gear was like that too before ascended was released.

^This. Part of the initial appeal of GW2 for me was how easy it is to get max stat equips (exotic back then) by just doing essentially what I wanted (whether it be dungeons, crafting, wvw, open world exploration etc). They really messed that feeling up for me when ascended was introduced.

Bri.8354:

This is a term thrown around these forums left and right, but where was the original use of this term and what content was it used in? What was its intended meaning and are players quoting it correctly?

The clearest usage I’ve been able to find was in a blog post where Collin states:

“To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.”

But outside of that, the term seems to be player made. I see countless players using it, even a year before the game was released, yet nowhere can I find any official use of “play how you want” in the way players have been using it.

So please stop using it in such a broad way unless you can find a statement by ArenaNet saying otherwise. They did not promise that you’d be able to do all content with ineffective gear or builds, craft the new back piece without doing fractals, or the countless other things that players use “play how you want” for.

i enjoy defending objectives in wvw borderlands.
still waiting for that to be rewarding.

rainynoble.6531:

Paradox.1380:

Thats an entirely different argument though being theres no Gear Check system in teh game itself. Personally, I do what is needed based on the content I am wanting to play at the time, but what I was saying is that Zerker is a niche gear for niche contents. Not everyone farms dungeons all day, and outside of dungeons where is Zerker gear absolutely needed? IMO even in Non-zerker groups the difference in clear times is a few minutes at the longest. The real key is understanding the content and knowing when and where to properly place your skills and DPS, as well as keeping up with when and where to use your defensive and dodge abilities. Dead men do no DPS regardless of gear.

This whole Zerker or GTFO has gotten outta hand and people run with it. There are places where being totally zerker is the right thing, but its not always. Also, carrying a couple non-zerkers has never been a problem for me. You barely notice in some cases. I’ve accidentally not switched gear after killing Teq one time on my Ele… Didn’t even notice until the end of all 3 paths of AC that I was still wearing my Knights gear.

The problem is not about needs for wearing zerker gear, it is about people asking for zerkers and we having liars who want to get carried in their nomad instead.

I pug all the time and i join “all welcome” group and speed runs indiscriminately. but when i have very little time before going out, i don’t want to see nomad-specced players. and somehow, playing zerker the way i wanted is wrong because carrying others is more important.

I think you mis-read what I wrote there. Maybe read it again.

People asking peopel to wear zerker gear can get around that by asking people to link their gear upon entering the party if they care absolutely that much about it. Also, how many peopel wiht Nomad’s gear do you actually know? Nomads gear isn’t all that hard to get, no but it certainly takes more effort than some other stat combos. Besides even Soldiers and Cleris gear have the Power stat on them making them pretty good outside of High Crits for anything. But like I said if you can’t PLAY in zerker gear you’ll be downed and dead (which by far outweighs any lack of DPS because it requires others to STOP DPSing to res you or for you to get up when we’re outta combat.). Also, not everyone plays dungeons every day and outside of dungeons there is NO other place I can think of where Zerker is the best gear. Open World doesn’t really count since you can kill mobs easily and quickly in almost all gear types.

nexxe.7081:

Let’s break it down then.

Their philosophy, is that players should play how they want, in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Ascended gear is the most powerful reward in the game. The attributes provide better stats.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment#Level_80_attribute_values

Can you play how you want to obtain Ascended gear? The easy answer is no.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_armor#Acquisition
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_chest

As the links above show, it can only be obtained by Ascended chests, Crafting, Living World events (back pieces), and trinkets from WvW merchants (the latter 2 aren’t mentioned in the wiki). It cannot be acquired by exploration chests, jumping puzzles, Personal Story, or SPvP (from what i know of), etc.

If anything, it doesn’t matter how you want to play, because the most powerful rewards still rely on RNG, with the few exceptions of Crafting, WvW merchants, and some Living World rewards such as the recent Mysterious Vine Back-Item, which do not rely on RNG.

I realize that statement wasn’t set in stone, and it doesn’t bother me at all whether they said it or not, but how can you say that players are taking it out of context? The latter part of the statement cannot be misinterpreted: “in order to reach the most powerful rewards”.

The quoted statement was written before the game launched, when exotics — which could be gained through a large variety of play styles, including purchase of the crafted versions — were the most powerful items. It’s pretty clear that Ascended was a departure from more than one before-launch statement.

As to “play how I want” as it’s used in these forums — the concept is ludicrous when applied to group play. There is no way that ANet could ever design a game where efficiency players would accept inefficiency — unless they were willing to make every profession and possible build the same. If that happened, we’d be hearing how boring the professions were because there is zero variation.

So, I’m with Bri, let it go.

Don’t tell me what to do, I’ll interpret how I want.

I always felt like the concept of “play how you want” was a design goal that they set for themselves, not a promise to players. When you look at certain things like how dailies & monthlies are obtained, the removal of glory as a currency before the addition of PVP-exclusive gear, the fact that PvP doesn’t require a level 80 character with equipment obtained in PvE… you know, the list could go on for quite a while.

They did design many facets of the game around the concept of playing how you want to get what you want. It could still be improved upon in certain ways, but it feels like a “friendly” MMO in may ways. Obviously, precursor crafting needs to happen, and maybe a little more focus on WvW and PvP exclusive armor instead of the new stuff always going in the gem shop, but they’re doing a good job of allowing players to focus on the content they want without being limited by a power creep. It’s a pretty good balance overall.

Let me say, I do “how I want”, with the exception of Rangers are yet weak (but I still manage through), and WvW is rushfarmed, that isn’t “how I want”.

Simply, I do not do anything I don’t want, even if it slows me down and cuts off whole contents (like very repetitive Fractials, PvP and WvW), but hey, I’m full of Ascended.

Myself is a proof of their right – from an angle – and even Ranger’s useability. Even if have to put x10 times more effort on the table to achieve that. If it, let be it.
True honor belongs to me, after all. Priceless

takes a drink