Guild Wars 2

What happened to this???

I am very far behind in this game because the mastery system. I really have a hard time getting mastery points to level anything and my exp bar is always full.

You have to do these silly mini games which is ok…but you HAVE to complete in x amount of time.

You need to do story missions which is fine as I enjoy them, but you HAVE to do it by anets rules and do all the achievements to get the mastery points. This makes the story quests extremely annoying and not fun at all.

I want to unlock mastery points by playing and advancing in the game not by you have to play this part of the game this way only

I’m curious about how many “ways” you think that they can make available to obtain things so you and everyone else can “play the way you want”?

There has to be limits in ways of obtaining anything. For every person in game, each one will want to play a little differently. I don’t see a way they could accommodate everyone.

That’s why there’s many more mastery points available than you actually need to train all available masteries.

I’m at 57. I just keep going. If I’m missing something, I don’t notice.

So I’m not sure how it holds you back.

Did you get the 9 points they recently added to Core?

jheryn.8390:

I’m curious about how many “ways” you think that they can make available to obtain things so you and everyone else can “play the way you want”?

There has to be limits in ways of obtaining anything. For every person in game, each one will want to play a little differently. I don’t see a way they could accommodate everyone.

They could have had Masteries mimic the level-up experience in expansions. That way, no points would be needed. I’d have preferred this. They could also have tied where you gain XP to specific lines. Want Itzel, gain XP in VB. Want Nuhoch, gain XP in TD. Want Exalted, gain XP in AB. I’d have been happy with much more XP needed, too, as long as I didn’t have to jump through hoops that hold little interest for me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

jheryn.8390:

I’m curious about how many “ways” you think that they can make available to obtain things so you and everyone else can “play the way you want”?

There has to be limits in ways of obtaining anything. For every person in game, each one will want to play a little differently. I don’t see a way they could accommodate everyone.

They could have had Masteries mimic the level-up experience in expansions. That way, no points would be needed. I’d have preferred this. They could also have tied where you gain XP to specific lines. Want Itzel, gain XP in VB. Want Nuhoch, gain XP in TD. Want Exalted, gain XP in AB. I’d have been happy with much more XP needed, too, as long as I didn’t have to jump through hoops that hold little interest for me.

OK, but that still doesn’t answer the question about how you think they could have done it so that it would appeal to everyone. Just because you or I or anyone else might like something, there will always be someone who doesn’t like it that way.

Then those people do not get to play the way they want. The company has to decide on a path and go with it. There is no possible way they could account for every person’s likes and wants. It just isn’t possible in any game or situation.

IndigoSundown.5419:

jheryn.8390:

I’m curious about how many “ways” you think that they can make available to obtain things so you and everyone else can “play the way you want”?

There has to be limits in ways of obtaining anything. For every person in game, each one will want to play a little differently. I don’t see a way they could accommodate everyone.

They could have had Masteries mimic the level-up experience in expansions. That way, no points would be needed. I’d have preferred this. They could also have tied where you gain XP to specific lines. Want Itzel, gain XP in VB. Want Nuhoch, gain XP in TD. Want Exalted, gain XP in AB. I’d have been happy with much more XP needed, too, as long as I didn’t have to jump through hoops that hold little interest for me.

Kinda hit the nail on the head.

Playing the game should grant mastery points to advance similar to xp. Xp is still a useless aspect of this game as I’ve gotten enough xp to level mastries to max level but my xp is a useless amount as I’m forced to do things that aren’t enjoyable by forcing enjoyable things in the game with requirements.

Like I said I love the story maps and the mini games but hate that doing them isn’t enough unless I play by anets rules while doing them making them not enjoyable anymore

jheryn.8390:

IndigoSundown.5419:

jheryn.8390:

I’m curious about how many “ways” you think that they can make available to obtain things so you and everyone else can “play the way you want”?

There has to be limits in ways of obtaining anything. For every person in game, each one will want to play a little differently. I don’t see a way they could accommodate everyone.

They could have had Masteries mimic the level-up experience in expansions. That way, no points would be needed. I’d have preferred this. They could also have tied where you gain XP to specific lines. Want Itzel, gain XP in VB. Want Nuhoch, gain XP in TD. Want Exalted, gain XP in AB. I’d have been happy with much more XP needed, too, as long as I didn’t have to jump through hoops that hold little interest for me.

OK, but that still doesn’t answer the question about how you think they could have done it so that it would appeal to everyone. Just because you or I or anyone else might like something, there will always be someone who doesn’t like it that way.

Then those people do not get to play the way they want. The company has to decide on a path and go with it. There is no possible way they could account for every person’s likes and wants. It just isn’t possible in any game or situation.

Gaining experience is a standard feature in every MMO. Faction benefits which require play in specific areas are standard features in many MMO’s. Tying the main progression system for an XPac to mini games and off-the-wall achievements is decidedly not standard. Anyone who wants to miss and poan about having to gain XP in an MMO is playing the wrong genre. Complaining about closed progression systems makes a lot more sense for the MMO genre.

As to possible responses about GW2 being different, it is also supposed to appeal to MMO fans, and has made many concessions to those fans.

If experience was the way you gained everything, then why have any content other than “killing stuff”?

Why have dynamic events, boss fights, personal stories where you are required to do certain things, dungeons, any instanced content at all? Why have meta events or dailies or collections or anything else other than killing creatures? You can’t just “play the way you want” and get those rewards without doing those things.

All of those things have rewards for doing them that you cannot get unless you do them. Masteries are not made to be “experience” driven. They are made to be content driven so you have to get them in a new, different way rather than just killing things.

Man its funny its always the PvE guys saying i wish i could just run along and play as selfishly as a can in a group setting no matter what. (raids)

Then people said man there so much content i have to do together and so the anet proceeded to make a good 90% of the game capable of being done with out talking to a single soul, again you PvE only guys.

And now people complaining about masteries because some of them require you to a a particular thing in a particular way.

It maybe just the genre of video game you play just isn’t for you guys at this point.

At launch, in 2012 the game was pretty much play as you want. Even the skill point challenges weren’t necessary as you would gain a skill point each time you leveled.

In 2014 the NPE launched and player freedom was diminished

Hero point challenges supplanted skill challenges…. leveling no longer gave you skill points and player freedom was further limited

2016 Hot was launched with the mastery system launched with arbitrarily assigned mastery points and player freedom was limited even more.

It is not that the genre isn’t for us. It is that Anet has diverted from the game that many players really enjoyed.

IndigoSundown.5419:

They could also have tied where you gain XP to specific lines. Want Itzel, gain XP in VB. Want Nuhoch, gain XP in TD. Want Exalted, gain XP in AB. I’d have been happy with much more XP needed, too, as long as I didn’t have to jump through hoops that hold little interest for me.

I don’t like this at all, that would mean you’d have to “farm” your experience in zones you might have no interest in playing at, especially if they increased the amount of xp needed. At least with the current system you get the points by playing for a limited time in varied content, then you can level up the mastery by playing anything you want. Getting the points requires a couple of minutes doing some content you might not find interesting, but you can do the time intensive part anywhere you like.

“Play the way you want” is partially still here. Mostly for normal PvE and WvW. For raids, higher fractals and structured PvP this is a thing of the past or never was the case. There, it is mostly “Play meta or not at all”. I personally dislike this because it excludes many players. But in the end, that is the current state of the game. Non-meta builds tend to under perform so players who tun them get discouraged or kicked.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hero point challenges supplanted skill challenges…. leveling no longer gave you skill points and player freedom was further limited

I don’t know where you get your information but this how the game works (post NPE):
You get 398 points simply by leveling.
You need 98 of those to unlock all your skills
You need 60 per specialization track, 5 tracks per character, so 300 points to unlock all traits. Total: 398
Without touching a single hero challenge, you get enough points to unlock all the skills and traits of your character. How did the NPE limit player freedom again?

so you are telling me without touching a single hero challenge you can get a fully developed tempest, berserker, etc…. ???

No that is not right. In the at launch game, you could fully develop your character to the most powerful levels without doing mandatory content. The player chose where and how to gain experience which was all that was needed back in the original gw2 game.

Now to get your character to the most powerful levels you HAVE to do mandatory content.

Dashingsteel.3410:

so you are telling me without touching a single hero challenge you can get a fully developed tempest, berserker, etc…. ???

No that is not right. In the at launch game, you could fully develop your character to the most powerful levels without doing mandatory content. The player chose where and how to gain experience which was all that was needed back in the original gw2 game.

Now to get your character to the most powerful levels you HAVE to do mandatory content.

I quote what you typed:

In 2014 the NPE launched and player freedom was diminished
Hero point challenges supplanted skill challenges…. leveling no longer gave you skill points and player freedom was further limited

There were no elite specs in 2014 when the NPE launched.
There was absolutely no limit to player freedom, in fact you could now unlock all your skills and traits without doing a single challenge.

In the 2012 system, before NPE, you needed 223 skill points to fully unlock all your skills. You only got 76 from levels and had to get the rest from skill challenges, or leveling beyond level 80.

The pre-NPE system, the original system was more restricting than the post-NPE system. In fact it was more similar to the HoT system, with the option of excessive grind to skip challenges.

Nope the NPE restricted where you could go and what you could achieve based on your current level.

To empower player freedom with the mastery system all that needs to be done is the elimination of mastery points and allow experience to fill the mastery bars to achieve the mastery.

I am no fan of gating, but the mastery system is about as unobtrusive as possible. There are a lot of extra points to unlock, so you needn’t do adventures if you don’t want.

In any case, ArenaNet’s “play as you like” comment had to do with reaching max level and equipment; those remain completely unrestricted.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I am no fan of gating, but the mastery system is about as unobtrusive as possible. There are a lot of extra points to unlock, so you needn’t do adventures if you don’t want.

In any case, ArenaNet’s “play as you like” comment had to do with reaching max level and equipment; those remain completely unrestricted.

This.^ Play as you want never had anything to do with players creating the game in their own ideal image.

maddoctor.2738:

Dashingsteel.3410:

so you are telling me without touching a single hero challenge you can get a fully developed tempest, berserker, etc…. ???

No that is not right. In the at launch game, you could fully develop your character to the most powerful levels without doing mandatory content. The player chose where and how to gain experience which was all that was needed back in the original gw2 game.

Now to get your character to the most powerful levels you HAVE to do mandatory content.

I quote what you typed:

In 2014 the NPE launched and player freedom was diminished
Hero point challenges supplanted skill challenges…. leveling no longer gave you skill points and player freedom was further limited

There were no elite specs in 2014 when the NPE launched.
There was absolutely no limit to player freedom, in fact you could now unlock all your skills and traits without doing a single challenge.

In the 2012 system, before NPE, you needed 223 skill points to fully unlock all your skills. You only got 76 from levels and had to get the rest from skill challenges, or leveling beyond level 80.

The pre-NPE system, the original system was more restricting than the post-NPE system. In fact it was more similar to the HoT system, with the option of excessive grind to skip challenges.

Suggest you stop while you are already this far behind the actual truth.

The original system was not more restrictive as you could get the skills you wanted and ignore the ones you didn’t want until a later date. Traits were a separate matter that only needed a bit of gold to unlock.

My comments have nothing to do with Arena Net’s “play as you want” statement

My points are comparing gw2 at launch gameplay as compared to gw2 today. At launch, the player had a choice of how to level their character and today not so much.

All of the core principles the game launched with were up for grabs by November of the first year. I think that GW2 maintained play it your way up until Dry Top/HoT. (The idea that you wouldn’t have to prepare to have fun was gone with the implementation of vertical progression in November 2012.)

With HoT you have required platforming with the addition of masteries which initially are nothing more than platforming tools. From that point play it your way was gone.

With PoF it looks like some of the heavy-handedness of HoT has been toned down but mounts will gate content. PoF is not play it your way. They should have been a fun and travel QoL addition to the game. You should have been able to do anything in PoF without a mount. The easiest way to understand it is that they want you to use mounts and you must play it their way, not yours, if you want to play the game.

It would be interesting to have Jason articulate the current design philosophy the way all of Anet did prior to the launch of GW2. Anet largely went dark after the 11/2012 AMA on reddit. There has never been a true communication of principles since the launch of GW2. We’re pretty much left in the dark to suss out our surmisings from their actual behavior. I prefer a more collaborative relationship.

Dashingsteel.3410:

To empower player freedom with the mastery system all that needs to be done is the elimination of mastery points and allow experience to fill the mastery bars to achieve the mastery.

This was also my realization. (It actually, for me, came from the paragon system in Diablo.) XP based horizontal progression is the only thing that will absolutely guarantee progression from playing the game your way. I don’t believe it needs to be the only way to progress your character. I actually feel a well-rounded game will have multiple lines of progression possible and there can certainly be options that a player decides among. For instance, I’m perfectly OK with the notion of faction rep and rewards and the like. It’s just that there must be something progressing the game in a meaningful way from your play of the game alone.

jheryn.8390:

If experience was the way you gained everything, then why have any content other than “killing stuff”?

Why have dynamic events, boss fights, personal stories where you are required to do certain things, dungeons, any instanced content at all? Why have meta events or dailies or collections or anything else other than killing creatures? You can’t just “play the way you want” and get those rewards without doing those things.

All of those things have rewards for doing them that you cannot get unless you do them. Masteries are not made to be “experience” driven. They are made to be content driven so you have to get them in a new, different way rather than just killing things.

If XP were the only currency for Masteries, various types of play would still be desirable because different people like different things. How can everyone play as they want if there are no options? XP, especially in GW2, is a wide-open system. Masteries are a closed system (the XP is useless without the points). XP comes from so many things one can do, I wonder why you even bother to make the “just killing things” reference.

I have zero issues with rewards exclusive to specific content. If I do not like the content, I am fine with foregoing that reward. I do question whether rewards (Masteries) that are needed to do certain things in game should be gated by content that has nothing to do with the Mastery or the things one needs a Mastery to accomplish.

Were I a developer, I could see the attraction of putting MP’s behind content I thought large numbers would avoid. I’m not a developer. As a player, I think it kittens.

Dashingsteel.3410:

My comments have nothing to do with Arena Net’s “play as you want” statement

My points are comparing gw2 at launch gameplay as compared to gw2 today. At launch, the player had a choice of how to level their character and today not so much.

At launch vs now : Leveling edition
Then: PVE,Crafting, Map Explo, WvW, PvP
Now: PvE, Crafting, Map Explo, WvW, PvP

Im confused.

As for masteries. I’m so confused on how you’re having trouble. I stopped playing for 8 months, had mastery level was 82. Less than a week of being back I’m at 130 and the majority of those, minus 2-3 getting sliver in the challenge/adventures, were from doing the masteries you channeled from maps and doing Living Story 3.

Thats 48 masterie. 38 HoT and 9 Core.

You get masteries by playing the game. Literally.

Sylent.3165:

What happened to this???

I am very far behind in this game because the mastery system. I really have a hard time getting mastery points to level anything and my exp bar is always full.

You have to do these silly mini games which is ok…but you HAVE to complete in x amount of time.

You need to do story missions which is fine as I enjoy them, but you HAVE to do it by anets rules and do all the achievements to get the mastery points. This makes the story quests extremely annoying and not fun at all.

I want to unlock mastery points by playing and advancing in the game not by you have to play this part of the game this way only

I could have understood this near the release of HoT, when LS S3 didn’t exist, but now it seems rather absurd. I have 17 spare HoT MPs after completing all but the raid mastery. I got ~10 from adventures (most of those weren’t too hard at all) and 0 from the HoT story achievements.

I am not having trouble. I have many elite specs maxed out. That is not the point of this discussion. The point is that with at launch gw2 experience was all that was needed to max out your character. There was no specific content you had to do besides the intro scenario when you first make your character.

In current gw2 if you want to max out your character you are forced to do specific content. That is all I am pointing out.

Many people liked how gw2 at launch gave the players ultimate freedom to max out. I also get that many people like to be given “chores” to do….. With the NPE and later HoT, the players that like “chores” seem to be the ones Anet catered to.

Whar are you talking about?

Are you sure you’re playing the same game everyone else is… what is this “you need to do specific things to get max level”…. nothings changed in terms of leveling.

HoT maps are terrible for casual playing and many think it was designed that way. You can play (read: run around) anytime you want, but to do the important stuff you have to follow a schedule.

@LimeSamurai …….. If you have played this game from launch in 2012, you would know that the leveling system has absolutely changed. The NPE added level gates to character leveling. The change from skill points to hero points and the loss of a skill point each time you leveled was a huge change.

These changes killed the play as you want aspect that was present at gw2 launch. Once again, before anyone chimes in I am not referring to Anet’s statement. I am just observing how the game was at launch compared to the game now.

Didn’t even the devs admit that that was a stupid quote?

zealex.9410:

Didn’t even the devs admit that that was a stupid quote?

I don’t recall them calling it a stupid quote but it wouldn’t surprise me at all. That’s exactly how you go about changing your mind and heading in a different direction. When they reversed themselves on vertical progression, Mike said “How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time.Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.” He was, in effect, saying that their pre-release position on vertical progression was wrong, or as you say “stupid”. Same difference.

The point is that “play it your way” was a big idea at the release of GW2 along with the absence of vertical progression, non-competitive resource nodes and the like. It was not an idea that was bounded or qualified as suggested above, it was rather one of the big ideas of GW2. These design principles distinguished GW2 as another kind of MMO, something different than WoW. This is exactly what caused me to pre-order and play beta. And, GW2 was everything they promised—it was a breath of fresh air. And, this is precisely why a lot of us have problems with the direction the game took after launch, here the current absence of “play it your way”. And, it’s been awhile, eh? Some of us really, really liked GW2.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Nope the NPE restricted where you could go and what you could achieve based on your current level.

With the original system you had to do many skill challenges to unlock your skills OR level up 147 times above 80. In other words pre-NPE you had to level up to level 227 to unlock all your skills. After the NPE you had to simply reach level 80, provided you didn’t finish any challenges with either methods but since the challenges themselves didn’t change it’s a moot point. There is a huge difference in grinding here.

But I see something strange on these forums. Players that prefer endless grinding over doing something specific for 10 minutes to get what they want.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Were I a developer, I could see the attraction of putting MP’s behind content I thought large numbers would avoid. I’m not a developer. As a player, I think it kittens.

You need a total of 144 heart of thorns mastery points to unlock everything.
There are 216 heart of thorns mastery points available.

You need a total of 49 central tyria mastery points to unlock everything.
There are 82 central tyria mastery points available.

There lies the player freedom. If you don’t like how you get mastery point A, go get mastery point B

ArenaNet likes to make wild changes, which is why HoT went in the opposite direction of the core game. Everything was the result of feedback.

The problem with playing however you wanted to was the freedom it had. There was nothing to actually push you forwards, like having to stick to areas near your level. The problem is, people would grind to 80 in Queensdale or skip most of the content and complain about it. The result of that was mastery points, which are there to force you to play the content. Forcing you to play what would normally be optional content however, like achievements, wasn’t a smart idea, but most masteries were optional, so it really wasn’t a problem. The mistake was simply in the presentation, the illusion of a new level cap which people think they needed. The simplest solution for future mastery points is to only offer them through content that nearly everyone is going to do normally, such as insights and the story.

Dashingsteel.3410:

My comments have nothing to do with Arena Net’s “play as you want” statement

My points are comparing gw2 at launch gameplay as compared to gw2 today. At launch, the player had a choice of how to level their character and today not so much.

L1-80 is easier now than it ever has been, even for the newest players. Masteries, by their very nature, have fewer unlocks, but even more ways to gain XP. So I’m not sure what you mean by “today not so much” — in what ways are we more limited than before?

@Illconceived When I talk about leveling your character I am meaning to its utmost power, I am including fully unlocked elite spec. I already mentioned it up above in another post but didn’t fully explain again in the entry that you posted.

In original gw2 there was no specific content needed to level your character to its most powerful fully unlocked state. Skill points weren’t necessary because of the skill point received everytime you leveled past 80.

If Anet would have 2 experience bars one for masteries and one general experience bar, it would be nice to receive a hero point everytime you lvl past 80 on the general experience bar to encourage player freedom………… I know this will never happen. This is how the game used to be.

I am aware this would take longer to fully complete your elite spec than just doing the hero points but it would be a nice extra to have.

Mastery system just eliminate the mastery points and allow experience to fill the bars to get the mastery would also allow for more player freedom.

These solutions would make the game harken more to its at launch state. I know it won’t happen but I think a lot of players would welcome those kind of changes.

jheryn.8390:

Play as you want never had anything to do with players creating the game in their own ideal image.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a response to this issue stated so succinctly before.

I’m actually surprised it took this long after the PoF Announcement for someone to complain about not being able to “play how they want”.

IndigoSundown.5419:

If XP were the only currency for Masteries, various types of play would still be desirable because different people like different things.

You more or less just repeated what I said with different wording. Devs cannot make everything perfect for everyone. So just because you personally do not like how masteries were implemented, does not mean that everyone feels the same way you do. There are several things I can think of that I do not enjoy doing in game to get what I want, but I don’t feel that the game should be changed because I don’t like it. There are plenty that do like the things I do not.

IndigoSundown.5419:

How can everyone play as they want if there are no options? XP, especially in GW2, is a wide-open system. Masteries are a closed system (the XP is useless without the points). XP comes from so many things one can do, I wonder why you even bother to make the “just killing things” reference.

There is no possible way that devs could make alternative options for everything in game. I do not understand why people do not understand that.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I have zero issues with rewards exclusive to specific content.

Well, apparently you do or we would not be having this discussion.

IndigoSundown.5419:

If I do not like the content, I am fine with foregoing that reward. I do question whether rewards (Masteries) that are needed to do certain things in game should be gated by content that has nothing to do with the Mastery or the things one needs a Mastery to accomplish.

The bottom line to your question is that the are not ‘needed’. They are, however, required. There are many things in many collections and accomplishments you have to do in this game that have nothing to do with the collection or accomplishment. You still have to do them if you want it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Were I a developer, I could see the attraction of putting MP’s behind content I thought large numbers would avoid. I’m not a developer. As a player, I think it kittens.

I don’t think there is any ‘attraction’ in doing that. I do not believe developers have any sort of sadistic slant in generating content. It is just the system they devised. You have every right to not like it. Saying it is wrong because you don’t like it is another thing.

I have played since the Beta 5 years ago and I am still playing the way I want. I play mostly alone or with my wife and/or kids and/or granddaughter. I have never had to “grind” for anything. I just play the game – kill things, harvest/log/mine everything, events if I feel like, etc. – along the way I have done quite a few achievements without even trying to do them.

I struggled hard near the end trying to get 185 mastery as I had almost nothing left but stupid mini games and Story achieves that were too hard for me. I did everything I could except what was still available during events in TD and DS. It was really hard to get people to help you to do anything on these maps as they only cared about doing the end boss of both maps and will not even bother to give you any ounce of help. I sometimes had to take it into my own hands and don a tag and just try to figure out where to go and what to do and lead other like-minded individuals myself. The community is atrocious and the game-play sucks! A lot of the events needed to be done for masteries I have left are bugged or partially broken or have no clear indicator when they are active. I’m talking about things like Lore Untangler and Scar outpost events and Chak Driver In TD especially. You try to ask people for help and they give nasty remarks tell you to leave the map as its the Meta running map, or auto block you (I’m sure this is happening).

This really makes me fell bad for this game that its gone so far off the rails. I am going to get my guild back up and running just to have people like us on this thread and other threads (raids also comes to mind) that are having such a hard time get all into one massive 500 man group to finally get the help we deserve and “play our way”.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I struggled hard near the end trying to get 185 mastery as I had almost nothing left but stupid mini games and Story achieves that were too hard for me. I did everything I could except what was still available during events in TD and DS. It was really hard to get people to help you to do anything on these maps as they only cared about doing the end boss of both maps and will not even bother to give you any ounce of help. I sometimes had to take it into my own hands and don a tag and just try to figure out where to go and what to do and lead other like-minded individuals myself. The community is atrocious and the game-play sucks! A lot of the events needed to be done for masteries I have left are bugged or partially broken or have no clear indicator when they are active. I’m talking about things like Lore Untangler and Scar outpost events and Chak Driver In TD especially. You try to ask people for help and they give nasty remarks tell you to leave the map as its the Meta running map, or auto block you (I’m sure this is happening).

This really makes me fell bad for this game that its gone so far off the rails. I am going to get my guild back up and running just to have people like us on this thread and other threads (raids also comes to mind) that are having such a hard time get all into one massive 500 man group to finally get the help we deserve and “play our way”.

Agreed.

my issue isn’t the points of mastery points, it’s how long it takes to actually get a “level” in the first place.
seriously, i can level a character all the way to lvl 50 or higher before i get one single mastery level done, if that’s not excessive then i don’t know anymore.

I’m glad this thread has developed the way it has. It shows the vast difference in what players want and expect in a game. I’m also glad that many players are happy with the ever increased challenge offered in the expacks and some patches.

At the same time, it is important to realize here though that many players do not. This is likely to come to a head and potentially soon. PoF will likely show many that the game they want to play is gone and not likely to return.

What is most important here is how many will leave. We don’t get metric data but its safe to assume that there are 6 or 7 million GW2 accounts. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t most of those players play mostly PvE? So, If that is the case, the number of players coming to that realization that the game they want is changing/has changed to something they don’t want, and will they continue to play and help fund the game? And more specifically, how many would it take to make the game unsustainable without a monthly fee?

So, while I would never do it, go ahead and tell players “this game is not for you”, “go play something else”, “you are wrong and your opinion doesn’t matter” but remember, the share holders rule and they could decide tomorrow to change it back if they think it changes the money favorably.

Wow. Ok.

I can level my character from 1-80 however I want. That has not changed. In fact as a vet player I can scroll/tome to level 80 and then run like a mad man through the core maps hitting every hp and then do the same on the HoT maps just so I can have a surplus come PoF should i choose to get it.

And while some of the masteries (specifically for core tyria) can be annoying to get (I’m looking at you LW season 2), there are a bunch more that are easier to get and encourage doing different things in the game to get them. As for HoT mastery points, sure they can be difficult to get, but that’s part of the fun. I know i have a handful I still need to earn in Dragonstand at some point and a few others probably hidden about, but I’m not overly pressed since I got the important ones out of the way. I still play as i like and where I like.

After reading through this thread, am I seriously the only person struggling with Mastery points? I’m training capped in every single category except Exalted and Gliding due to having those finished.

All these people saying it isn’t an issue.

The issue imo, is that it gates content. I seriously don’t mind leyline challenges requiring the leyline gliding, or Exalted Gathering to get the specialization weapon. They are goals to reach.

But, it sucks that in order to do a lot of the content in the game, I have to do very specific things I don’t really care to do. I’ve capped everything, so I obviously play in HoT a lot. But I only play in sort spurts most hte time, I want to go do Dragons Stand, or do some fun events. I don’t want to have to go off and do some mini-games I don’t enjoy to make it so I can finally glide across the map properly, or to even do specific events in Dragons Stand.

My personal opinion, make it so Mastery Points unlock via both XP, and challenges and such. A way to get them faster, but you still get them just by playing the game.

Fractured.3928:

After reading through this thread, am I seriously the only person struggling with Mastery points? I’m training capped in every single category except Exalted and Gliding due to having those finished.

You may have skipped some posts in this thread, because you’re not the only one with this issue. Lots of us have it, myself included. And I have to admit, I look ahead to PoF with a bit of dread, because the new Masteries may be just as bad if not worse.

I hope they’re better, but we’ll have to wait and see. Even the limited glimpse from the preview weekend won’t really tell us all we need to know.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Wow. Ok.

I can level my character from 1-80 however I want. That has not changed. In fact as a vet player I can scroll/tome to level 80 and then run like a mad man through the core maps hitting every hp and then do the same on the HoT maps just so I can have a surplus come PoF should i choose to get it.

And while some of the masteries (specifically for core tyria) can be annoying to get (I’m looking at you LW season 2), there are a bunch more that are easier to get and encourage doing different things in the game to get them. As for HoT mastery points, sure they can be difficult to get, but that’s part of the fun. I know i have a handful I still need to earn in Dragonstand at some point and a few others probably hidden about, but I’m not overly pressed since I got the important ones out of the way. I still play as i like and where I like.

Let me give you another perspective on play it your way, perhaps different than the OP or Dashingsteel who has made excellent points. I had no problems in terms of play it your way in GW2 so let’s go back to the beginning of HoT. Upon entry probably most players immediately died a few times to mobs who looked the equivalent of gnats or mosquitoes but they were mosquitoes who drank your blood by the pint. Annoying but maybe things will get better. After X number of deaths you spot an objective on the mini-map and it’s an objective that will advance the game. Yay! You then navigate towards the objective and to the edge of a cliff. You see a platform below and the objective appears to be there so you jump down. You look around for awhile and its nowhere to be found. So you make the logical next jump from the platform you are on to the youtube platform where you discover that the objective is on still another platform and that, moreover, you will need two additional abilities (that you don’t currently have) before you can reach the desired platform.

To my horror, platform by platform, I was discovering that HoT was nothing but a extended platformer but not strictly as usually, in platformers, the next platform is visible in the user interface, and here it’s not. HoT is a Platformer Obscura where the first logical jump is always to the youtube platform (if you don’t want to brute force it). So, what’s my issue with this? I hate platformers. I actually thought jumping puzzles were great and brilliantly implemented in GW2. They were there for those who loved them and could be avoided without penalty by those who didn’t. Brilliant!

So, my immediate issue with HoT is that platforming is not my way of playing an MMO. I had no issue with GW2 in this regard, but it’s in my face constantly in HoT. It is such an obvious violation of play it your way that it’s probably going to be observed and commented upon by the player base. And witness this thread and the hundreds of others like it since the release of HoT. There will probably be hundreds more after the release of PoF. Why? Because many people bought in, hook, line, and sinker, to the big ideas of GW2. And, play it your way was one of those big ideas.

Raine.1394:

Major snip

So for me, I’m glad they went the route of having a vertical HoT. It is indeed frustrating at times, but it is super unique! I haven’t seen a map like it in any MMO, ever. It is grand, beautiful, and exploring is more fun than any area of any MMO.

It really sucks that you don’t like having to explore to get to your places, but I understand thats part of “Play your way”, but in this instance, there isn’t a way to get a unique feeling like this without it being kinda slightly niche.

My complaint though, which we both agree on I believe, is the part where you mentioned you need 2 abilities which you don’t have yet to get to an event. That right now, is what sucks about HoT. Not only that, but having to chase down masteries makes it even worse.