Guild Wars 2

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Einlanzer.1627:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dante.1763:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’ve seen threads like this several times over the years, in this forum and others. It’s always guys and female chars. I’ve never seen one for gals and male chars.

Well…im a girl, and i hate playing as a guy. I just dont see the big enough deal to make a thread for it..soo..

Yah. Same.

Maybe I should make a thread about females unable to play male chars because it makes us feel weird and we’re unable to relate to our chars….

Oh please, like anyone would care – the exact same discussion would ensue.

Don’t undermine the credibility of feminism by turning this into a feminist rage thing (like has become so common these days). Literally the only reason you haven’t seen threads from girls on the topic is because girls playing guys is not nearly as much of a norm as guys playing girls.

Feminist rage?? lol. No.

However, I am going to whisper something to you, so lean close

Men and women don’t think (or feel) the same
Yep. They don’t. It may be cultural or it may be biological but the two sexes aren’t identical in how they feel or react. In addition it’s more culturally allowed for women to take on “male” characteristics than men to take on “female” characteristics. Which would relate to more men being more uncomfortable having a female char than females being uncomfortable having a male char.

Condescension was unnecessary. I agree.

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

But the only thing that says you are playing “as” a female by definition is… what? Right. Visuals. So yes. It’s all about staring at backsides.

Plus, the “opposite sex” is so diffuse. Have we ever seen what’s in their pants? We havent really seen anyone pregnant either. Who knows, maybe that’s why Logan is so moody.

The “backside” argument I see as an aesthetic argument. The uncomfortable argument is one where they are projecting themselves into the char and “seeing” themselves as a different sex. I don’t see it as a purely visual thing as a female can be covered up so that all you see is armor. It’s the projection of the self into that form that’s causing the discomfort for these people, not the form itself.

I’m a cishet male and some of my characters are female. Some classes, animations, or aesthetics look better on female characters than on male characters. I like to have half of my characters (Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant) be male and the other half (Ranger, Elementalist, Mesmer, and Necromancer) be female.

I think you should play what you like and not worry about silly conceptions of masculinity. Having a female video game character doesn’t mean anything about you other than you like that character. Anybody who says otherwise is an insecure idiot.

Odokuro.5049:

Does anyone else feel uneasy playing a toon of the opposite gender, I do.

I’m a guy, and even though most female toons are more pleasing on the eye to look at, playing one just makes me feel, “Strange”, not to mention the countless guys hitting on my toon, only to find out I’m a guy, and calling me well, some unpleasant names to say the least.

Like I want to make a female norn warrior, because I don’t like how the male norn’s torso seems to be shorter on one side than the other, lol.

Cool story bro.

My toons are about 50/50, as in, half of them are male and the other half female. My “main” is a human male though.

I see no issue playing as a character from the opposite gender. Dunno why there would be an issue.

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Carl Jung said, life is a journey toward true self, whether masculine or feminine at the outset of life we should also embrace our anima (which is the opposite) on the road to androgyny where our true self is, neither male or female, true self accepts the whole of which we are.
If you have difficulty playing a pixelated character of either gender for any reason, you might consider seeking professional help.
Playing over 45 characters, one of each class and race, I do not find myself so immersed into which gender I rolled but the skills and utilities I have.
Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are not dating sites and anyone that hits me up is probably a little deranged to begin with, those players are the ones that I would be seriously worried about their mental health and devious intent.

Paralux.6714:

Third of all, in Guild Wars, as with most MMORPGS and other computer games, the majority of players are men, so most female characters you see in the game are actually played by men.

Actually recent reports have shown that the percentage of female players in many games, including many MMOs is about 40%, and rising. Female gamers really aren’t that uncommon any more online or offline.

In my experience it’s never been that unusual, but that may be biased by being a female gamer myself and gravitating towards people who share my interests. The main exception I’ve found is, oddly enough, Pokemon Go. Most of the time I’m the only woman who shows up for a raid, although definitely not the only female player in my town. In other games I’ve never had trouble meeting other female players, or meeting other women in real life and then finding out they’re also gamers.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Cis gendered – physical gender matches the one you identify as. Het – short for heterosexual. I’ve not seen it written that way before, but in some circles it’s fairly common to clarify that when having a discussion like this.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Male assigned at birth, male identifying, but non-conforming heterosexual.

Well I have 24 lvl 80’s on my main account…

21 female, 3 male…

Interesting about the male characters: they are all build for WvW…

I just make characters based on what i feel like doing that moment, and what looks nice/fitting for the character I have in mind. Or just stumble on a nice setup by playing with the character maker options, and go… hey i like that. So often it begins with does the character feel like a man or woman … what options does the character builder give me for both genders and what clicks. And hey if it is a male… male it is… if it is a woman… woman it is.

It just happens that I play more males across MMO’s then females (I would guess 70% male 30% woman). But there 0.0 deliberate choice for it… just turned out that way. And no that does not make me feel insecure/dubious or whatever about my own gender ^^

Final pick for male had a fair few times to do with the females simply looking to much like young teenagers/dolls to my liking, or had breasts the size of Alaska when picking a small size (ok ok, hyperbole… but you get the idea), or most of the costume preview was skimpy manga like attire. And I often find the male picks to have more character.
I feel more comfortable playing a man looking around my age then an exposing teenager my sex (I am a 40 year old woman by the way and I have (had) some what might be considered sexy characters).

And hey if I have no problem playing some exotic race that’s nothing like me in real life, in a world that is nothing like real life, what the heck does it matter what sex a character is compared to what I am in real life?

Also I see characters more like characters in a book/movie then as an mirror of myself. Ofcourse if I RP often a part of me slips in, in game choices are also tinted by whom I am in real life… but a hell of a lot isn’t and just goes by what seems fitting.

I have had plenty of characters of both sexes, different races and looks/ages. I like ti that way. Keeps it nice and diverse.

I have a mixture of both.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I play mostly female toons and in all the years of playing I can only remember once or twice someone saying something. I really don’t think that’s a common problem. If you’re getting remarks, maybe you’re saying things in chat that gets people to react.

My husband and I both play all female characters (in games that give the choice) and have had this discussion many times, as we are having it right now in response to your thread.

In 20+ combined years of online gaming playing female avatars, we can count the times we’ve been hit on by random players on one hand.

Our primary driver for playing female is that their armor and body animations tend to be better done.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Which would relate to more men being more uncomfortable having a female char than females being uncomfortable having a male char.

Well it really depends on how you mean uncomfortable…

I find the prospect of staring at a mans hairy backside for thousands upon thousands of hours somewhat uncomfortable. I mean sure the GW2 men are basicly all supermodels with well toned buttocks, but still…

Edit: I managed to break censuring on the forum?! Better delete that line lol.

I did say more men than women.

So, I’m talking averages or % of population, not absolute all or none.

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

Well, we’re working from a framework of pixel choice corresponding to gender and sexual identity, so it’s going to end up contrived regardless.

Human brain sees too many patterns.

Dovienya.6597:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I play mostly female toons and in all the years of playing I can only remember once or twice someone saying something. I really don’t think that’s a common problem. If you’re getting remarks, maybe you’re saying things in chat that gets people to react.

My husband and I both play all female characters (in games that give the choice) and have had this discussion many times, as we are having it right now in response to your thread.

In 20+ combined years of online gaming playing female avatars, we can count the times we’ve been hit on by random players on one hand.

I think it varies a lot between games. In Ultima Online (back when I played it) it was fairly common, but then it was fairly common for people to respond positively too, so in a way it made sense.

These days it certainly happens to me more often in Elder Scrolls Online than Guild Wars 2, but it’s still rare and it’s happened to both my male and female characters. Sometimes its kind of ambiguous too – like someone following me around using the /bow emote and periodically whispering me asking if I’m female in real life and if I look like my character…I’m not sure it was flirting but I can’t think what else it could be.

I’ve known people who said they would never have made a female character in their previous MMO because they’d get too much hassle (both positive – like flirting, and negative – like being rejected for dungeon groups on the basis that they’re obviously an incompetent casual player who only cares about dressing up their character), but they’re happy to do it in GW2 and some other games because that kind of thing never happens.

lothefallen.7081:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Male assigned at birth, male identifying, but non-conforming heterosexual.

Okay… and what does any of that mean? Explain it to me like I’m 6.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Okay… and what does any of that mean? Explain it to me like I’m 6.

It means if you’re male that not only were you born with all the typical male parts, you think of yourself as male and are attracted to women. Cis is your inner idea of your gender is the same as your physical sex characteristics, het is short for heterosexual.

I hope no kitten filters have been invoked by this post.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Male assigned at birth, male identifying, but non-conforming heterosexual.

Okay… and what does any of that mean? Explain it to me like I’m 6.

Cis stands for comfortable in skin.

Your sex and your gender match up (you’re not transgender).

Then het for heterosexual. So, cishet.

FEMALE CHARR META

I primarily have female toons because they look better than the male ones. An no I don’t mean look better in the they “zomg so hawt” way, but in the “male characters in this game look like garbage most of the time” way. I like the armors, animations etc way more on the female toons more. I have maybe 4 male out of the 20 I have.

Also like the female voice acting more and if I am going to have to listen to them talk, I’d rather enjoy it than not.

I really don’t know what the hang up is.

cadmiumgreen.8712:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Okay… and what does any of that mean? Explain it to me like I’m 6.

It means if you’re male that not only were you born with all the typical male parts, you think of yourself as male and are attracted to women. Cis is your inner idea of your gender is the same as your physical sex characteristics, het is short for heterosexual.

I hope no kitten filters have been invoked by this post.

Inner idea of your gender?

Are we back to living in the 60s and 70s? Hahaha.

I have no inner idea of my gender. Like, I dunno about you guys, but my gender or what’s between my legs is not typically something I think about, you know what I mean?

I mean like, I get it if you’re suffering from the gender dysphoria mental disorder, then it would be a different story I guess. But I’m just a regular dude so, gender is not really something I’m concerned with or think about.

Hence – to get back on topic – I don’t really care much about the gender of my videogame characters. In GW2 I look at aesthetics and what I think looks cool, and base the race/gender/class combo of my characters on that; what I think looks cool.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I primarily have female toons because they look better than the male ones. An no I don’t mean look better in the they “zomg so hawt” way, but in the “male characters in this game look like garbage most of the time” way. I like the armors, animations etc way more on the female toons more. I have maybe 4 male out of the 20 I have.

Also like the female voice acting more and if I am going to have to listen to them talk, I’d rather enjoy it than not.

I really don’t know what the hang up is.

Based on voice acting I’d go for norn or charr (either male or female, both rock). I like the human and sylvari voice acting the least. But since I don’t care about the voice acting in this game, it’s not a factor I take in consideration when I create my characters.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

I mean like, I get it if you’re suffering from the gender dysphoria mental disorder, then it would be a different story I guess. But I’m just a regular dude so, gender is not really something I’m concerned with or think about.

Well, that’s the point- when you are cis you don’t have the dysphoria which someone who is trans might. Cis in this instance is intended as the opposite of trans.

So, yeah, you are just a regular dude.

Einlanzer.1627:

Unless something has drastically changed in the last handful of years, male players outnumber female players in most MMOs by huge margins – at least around 4:1, although it’s been moving toward greater parity in recent years.

Come on Einlanzer, you can do better. Google is right on that other tab you have opened anyway. Here are statistics from 2017:

http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

[img]http://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages-1024x878.png[/img]

About 36% of MMO Game players are female. Your assumption that only 20% of the players are female is wrong, probably anecdotal (to use the phrase you keep using to argue against others). Please provide a source next time you throw out numbers here, you can expect to be called out on it.

you have this kind of post in every mmo forum.
i, man, play only female characters. Charr female, Asura female, human female.
i play female in other games to. Dark Souls, WoW and so on. if it is possible i play a female character. why? Because in the most games male characters looks stupid.
for example i would love to play a male character with a beard. but in every game beards look like crap. like you have some halloween beard pint to a 5 year old boy.
only game that did it right was Witcher 3.

some of you said “i can not play the opposite sex because it feels weird” but then you mention that you play an asura …

Just a flesh wound.3589:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Male assigned at birth, male identifying, but non-conforming heterosexual.

Okay… and what does any of that mean? Explain it to me like I’m 6.

Cis stands for comfortable in skin.

Your sex and your gender match up (you’re not transgender).

Then het for heterosexual. So, cishet.

Actually cis is a Latin prefix that means ‘same as’, the opposite of trans. For example in molecular chemist you get cis isomers where all the functional groups in a molecule are on the same side, and trans isomers where they’re on opposite sides.

I suspect ‘comfortable in skin’ is a backronym.

I don’t think I’ve ever received clap-back for playing female toons, either. Most of the time when I get a response, it is for playing a black toon.

I play both – male and female characters. I only had an open mind for different things – different than I am. That’s why I also like to take the opposition in like Horde in Warcraft or make a female charr. It’s called ‘role play’ and to play a female doesn’t make me uncofortable (I am male). It’s a point of aesthetics. Like you like to watch a kitten female ninja fighting off some thugs etc.

Danikat.8537:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lothefallen.7081:

I’m a cishet male

Wtf is a “cishet”?

Male assigned at birth, male identifying, but non-conforming heterosexual.

Okay… and what does any of that mean? Explain it to me like I’m 6.

Cis stands for comfortable in skin.

Your sex and your gender match up (you’re not transgender).

Then het for heterosexual. So, cishet.

Actually cis is a Latin prefix that means ‘same as’, the opposite of trans. For example in molecular chemist you get cis isomers where all the functional groups in a molecule are on the same side, and trans isomers where they’re on opposite sides.

I suspect ‘comfortable in skin’ is a backronym.

Maybe. But if you google the meaning of cis in relation to gender, comfortable in skin is what you’ll find. It makes it easy to understand in an explanation, which undoubtedly is why it’s used (and why I used it above).

Odokuro.5049:

Does anyone else feel uneasy playing a toon of the opposite gender, I do.

No. I do not choose toons because of their sex, but other things factor in. E.g. I had a name in mind for a female Mesmer, had no Asura at the time and I do not like the male Asura voicing so I decided to create a female one.
Back when I created my female Norn Guardian I did so, because I rarely ever met female Norn Guardians in the open world and ebony Norn not at all.
I created my female Human Mesmer for similar reasons, name, profession, voicing. So I have three female toons out of 15 I play from time to time.

I have no male Human, no male Asura, no female Sylvari and no female Charr. Most are male Charr. But I’m open minded for the future. I also try to always keep a certain distance and to not confuse myself with my toons, so I have access to the whole range of character creation which grants more diversity when playing the game.

I wanted to use up my 80 boost yesterday so rolled a new character for the expansion. All 15 of my characters so far are female, but because of this thread I decided to make a human male for the 16th as an experiment.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

But the only thing that says you are playing “as” a female by definition is… what? Right. Visuals. So yes. It’s all about staring at backsides.

Plus, the “opposite sex” is so diffuse. Have we ever seen what’s in their pants? We havent really seen anyone pregnant either. Who knows, maybe that’s why Logan is so moody.

The “backside” argument I see as an aesthetic argument. The uncomfortable argument is one where they are projecting themselves into the char and “seeing” themselves as a different sex. I don’t see it as a purely visual thing as a female can be covered up so that all you see is armor. It’s the projection of the self into that form that’s causing the discomfort for these people, not the form itself.

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

I don’t ever stare at my character’s backside because I’m busy playing the game.

Ben K.6238:

Einlanzer.1627:

Ardid.7203:

Not fully true. There are scientific studies which DO confirm women are better received in the customer service industry because both men and women would rather be greeted by the female form. This is probably due to our inherent belief (whether that’s natural or society induced) that women are more attractive overall.

That is quite a leap in logic. Assuming this is true, it’s far more likely because of associations between the female form and maternity and nurturing.

It’s almost certainly an emotional response that has nothing to do with aesthetic or sexual preference.

Women aren’t better received in that industry when they give an answer someone doesn’t want to hear. Anecdotal evidence from personal experience again, but I doubt that this would surprise anyone.

Your right, your evidence is anecdotal but that doesn’t make it without value.

It is a weird conundrum on how many factors effect women’s better reception in such an industry, one thing is scientifically backed for sure though, as I posted earlier in the article link there are mentions of studies which find women are generally regarded as more attractive than men as a gender, and to add some anecdotal evidence to my scientific sources, most Bi people I know tend to agree.

Faaris.8013:

Einlanzer.1627:

Unless something has drastically changed in the last handful of years, male players outnumber female players in most MMOs by huge margins – at least around 4:1, although it’s been moving toward greater parity in recent years.

Come on Einlanzer, you can do better. Google is right on that other tab you have opened anyway. Here are statistics from 2017:

http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

[img]http://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages-1024x878.png[/img]

About 36% of MMO Game players are female. Your assumption that only 20% of the players are female is wrong, probably anecdotal (to use the phrase you keep using to argue against others). Please provide a source next time you throw out numbers here, you can expect to be called out on it.

Looks like I was womansplained! To be honest, I just hadn’t check the data recently. It used to be true that about 20% of the typical MMO playerbase was female – this was back when most people believed it to be less than 10%, and I would always take your side of this argument. Aging myself, hah (and to be fair, this is more or less the percentage in WoW, which heavily attracts former RTS players so the player base is disproportionately male for a fantasy MMO).

So it’s probably true that perception plays a huge role here. I tend to assume that toons are played by males unless they say otherwise, although it never impacted my behavior toward other players. Looks like I need to reevaluate my assumption.

PistolWhip.2697:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

But the only thing that says you are playing “as” a female by definition is… what? Right. Visuals. So yes. It’s all about staring at backsides.

Plus, the “opposite sex” is so diffuse. Have we ever seen what’s in their pants? We havent really seen anyone pregnant either. Who knows, maybe that’s why Logan is so moody.

The “backside” argument I see as an aesthetic argument. The uncomfortable argument is one where they are projecting themselves into the char and “seeing” themselves as a different sex. I don’t see it as a purely visual thing as a female can be covered up so that all you see is armor. It’s the projection of the self into that form that’s causing the discomfort for these people, not the form itself.

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

I don’t ever stare at my character’s backside because I’m busy playing the game.

Ben K.6238:

Einlanzer.1627:

Ardid.7203:

Not fully true. There are scientific studies which DO confirm women are better received in the customer service industry because both men and women would rather be greeted by the female form. This is probably due to our inherent belief (whether that’s natural or society induced) that women are more attractive overall.

That is quite a leap in logic. Assuming this is true, it’s far more likely because of associations between the female form and maternity and nurturing.

It’s almost certainly an emotional response that has nothing to do with aesthetic or sexual preference.

Women aren’t better received in that industry when they give an answer someone doesn’t want to hear. Anecdotal evidence from personal experience again, but I doubt that this would surprise anyone.

Your right, your evidence is anecdotal but that doesn’t make it without value.

It is a weird conundrum on how many factors effect women’s better reception in such an industry, one thing is scientifically backed for sure though, as I posted earlier in the article link there are mentions of studies which find women are generally regarded as more attractive than men as a gender, and to add some anecdotal evidence to my scientific sources, most Bi people I know tend to agree.

I’ve never heard a single bisexual person say this. I find this argument to be without much scientific merit, frankly.

Einlanzer.1627:

Looks like I was womansplained!

I don’t think you know what that word means, also, I’m not even a women.

stating facts vs. relying on your biased opinion is not womansplaining…

Einlanzer.1627:

PistolWhip.2697:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

But the only thing that says you are playing “as” a female by definition is… what? Right. Visuals. So yes. It’s all about staring at backsides.

Plus, the “opposite sex” is so diffuse. Have we ever seen what’s in their pants? We havent really seen anyone pregnant either. Who knows, maybe that’s why Logan is so moody.

The “backside” argument I see as an aesthetic argument. The uncomfortable argument is one where they are projecting themselves into the char and “seeing” themselves as a different sex. I don’t see it as a purely visual thing as a female can be covered up so that all you see is armor. It’s the projection of the self into that form that’s causing the discomfort for these people, not the form itself.

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

I don’t ever stare at my character’s backside because I’m busy playing the game.

Ben K.6238:

Einlanzer.1627:

Ardid.7203:

Not fully true. There are scientific studies which DO confirm women are better received in the customer service industry because both men and women would rather be greeted by the female form. This is probably due to our inherent belief (whether that’s natural or society induced) that women are more attractive overall.

That is quite a leap in logic. Assuming this is true, it’s far more likely because of associations between the female form and maternity and nurturing.

It’s almost certainly an emotional response that has nothing to do with aesthetic or sexual preference.

Women aren’t better received in that industry when they give an answer someone doesn’t want to hear. Anecdotal evidence from personal experience again, but I doubt that this would surprise anyone.

Your right, your evidence is anecdotal but that doesn’t make it without value.

It is a weird conundrum on how many factors effect women’s better reception in such an industry, one thing is scientifically backed for sure though, as I posted earlier in the article link there are mentions of studies which find women are generally regarded as more attractive than men as a gender, and to add some anecdotal evidence to my scientific sources, most Bi people I know tend to agree.

I’ve never heard a single bisexual person say this. I find this argument to be without much scientific merit, frankly.

Yes, that is because as I stated, it’s anecdotal, as almost everything you have said has been, including your proven wrongful statement about the gender distribution of MMO players.

“Frankly”, for someone who froths at the mouth at his own anecdotal contributions, you seem to call the “BUT SCIENCE!” chant quite quickly.

PistolWhip.2697:

Einlanzer.1627:

PistolWhip.2697:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

But the only thing that says you are playing “as” a female by definition is… what? Right. Visuals. So yes. It’s all about staring at backsides.

Plus, the “opposite sex” is so diffuse. Have we ever seen what’s in their pants? We havent really seen anyone pregnant either. Who knows, maybe that’s why Logan is so moody.

The “backside” argument I see as an aesthetic argument. The uncomfortable argument is one where they are projecting themselves into the char and “seeing” themselves as a different sex. I don’t see it as a purely visual thing as a female can be covered up so that all you see is armor. It’s the projection of the self into that form that’s causing the discomfort for these people, not the form itself.

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

I don’t ever stare at my character’s backside because I’m busy playing the game.

Ben K.6238:

Einlanzer.1627:

Ardid.7203:

Not fully true. There are scientific studies which DO confirm women are better received in the customer service industry because both men and women would rather be greeted by the female form. This is probably due to our inherent belief (whether that’s natural or society induced) that women are more attractive overall.

That is quite a leap in logic. Assuming this is true, it’s far more likely because of associations between the female form and maternity and nurturing.

It’s almost certainly an emotional response that has nothing to do with aesthetic or sexual preference.

Women aren’t better received in that industry when they give an answer someone doesn’t want to hear. Anecdotal evidence from personal experience again, but I doubt that this would surprise anyone.

Your right, your evidence is anecdotal but that doesn’t make it without value.

It is a weird conundrum on how many factors effect women’s better reception in such an industry, one thing is scientifically backed for sure though, as I posted earlier in the article link there are mentions of studies which find women are generally regarded as more attractive than men as a gender, and to add some anecdotal evidence to my scientific sources, most Bi people I know tend to agree.

I’ve never heard a single bisexual person say this. I find this argument to be without much scientific merit, frankly.

Yes, that is because as I stated, it’s anecdotal, as almost everything you have said has been, including your proven wrongful statement about the gender distribution of MMO players.

“Frankly”, for someone who froths at the mouth at his own anecdotal contributions, you seem to call the “BUT SCIENCE!” chant quite quickly.

I’m not sure why you think I’m frothing at the mouth about anything in this topic. It’s merely an interesting discussion. Also, it wasn’t “proven wrongful”, it’s just nuanced. A relatively small % of players are female in most MMOs, it just so happens that high fantasy MMOs that are not WoW are the exception.

Faaris.8013:

Einlanzer.1627:

Looks like I was womansplained!

I don’t think you know what that word means, also, I’m not even a women.

Uh, yes, I do. I don’t think you know how to spell woman, and you also apparently didn’t read the rest of the post which made it clear that I was being tongue in cheek. Forgive me for assuming that you were a woman.

Einlanzer.1627:

PistolWhip.2697:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dawdler.8521:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Edit: and I’m not talking about staring at backsides. I’m taking about being uncomfortable playing as the opposite sex.

But the only thing that says you are playing “as” a female by definition is… what? Right. Visuals. So yes. It’s all about staring at backsides.

Plus, the “opposite sex” is so diffuse. Have we ever seen what’s in their pants? We havent really seen anyone pregnant either. Who knows, maybe that’s why Logan is so moody.

The “backside” argument I see as an aesthetic argument. The uncomfortable argument is one where they are projecting themselves into the char and “seeing” themselves as a different sex. I don’t see it as a purely visual thing as a female can be covered up so that all you see is armor. It’s the projection of the self into that form that’s causing the discomfort for these people, not the form itself.

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

I don’t ever stare at my character’s backside because I’m busy playing the game.

Ben K.6238:

Einlanzer.1627:

Ardid.7203:

Not fully true. There are scientific studies which DO confirm women are better received in the customer service industry because both men and women would rather be greeted by the female form. This is probably due to our inherent belief (whether that’s natural or society induced) that women are more attractive overall.

That is quite a leap in logic. Assuming this is true, it’s far more likely because of associations between the female form and maternity and nurturing.

It’s almost certainly an emotional response that has nothing to do with aesthetic or sexual preference.

Women aren’t better received in that industry when they give an answer someone doesn’t want to hear. Anecdotal evidence from personal experience again, but I doubt that this would surprise anyone.

Your right, your evidence is anecdotal but that doesn’t make it without value.

It is a weird conundrum on how many factors effect women’s better reception in such an industry, one thing is scientifically backed for sure though, as I posted earlier in the article link there are mentions of studies which find women are generally regarded as more attractive than men as a gender, and to add some anecdotal evidence to my scientific sources, most Bi people I know tend to agree.

I’ve never heard a single bisexual person say this. I find this argument to be without much scientific merit, frankly.

wow reading this kitten stuff just wow . smh glad it is noting at all like some people seam to think it is .

Why not play a toon of the opposite gender? While you could try to make some sort of conclusion about what kind of person you are when you do, I believe a huge majority is perfectly capable of keeping their player characters and their own character separate.

Pretty much like watching movies television doesn’t automatically make you think that that is how life works exactly.

In fact, it might be healthy for people to step into their character shoes and think what they might think differently than your actual self. In a game you can explore all these options and experience other character traits to some degree without any problems. That’s the power of gaming really.

PistolWhip.2697:

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

You’d be amazed what someone can accomplish with peripheral vision alone.

as i heard there are people not grinding 24/7, but also sometimes just chilling in the guildhall with their friends etc.
in those moments, you have plenty of time to

FrizzFreston.5290:

(…) step into their character shoes and (…) explore all these options (…)

:P

never seen those people before, what kind of sick human would play a game and just chill?

Faaris.8013:

Einlanzer.1627:

Unless something has drastically changed in the last handful of years, male players outnumber female players in most MMOs by huge margins – at least around 4:1, although it’s been moving toward greater parity in recent years.

Come on Einlanzer, you can do better. Google is right on that other tab you have opened anyway. Here are statistics from 2017:

http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

[img]http://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages-1024x878.png[/img]

About 36% of MMO Game players are female. Your assumption that only 20% of the players are female is wrong, probably anecdotal (to use the phrase you keep using to argue against others). Please provide a source next time you throw out numbers here, you can expect to be called out on it.

Awesome info.

I would also point that they DIDN’T include GW2 in the MMO High Fantasy selection of games(biiiig mistake!), but they DID include WoW. This is important because:

1) My personal “anecdotal experience” tells me that WoW is much, much, much more male prevalent than GW2 (80% of my female gamer friends plays GW2, none plays WoW) (Of course, this is just my perception)

2) The same study confirms WoW IS less prefered by the female players in comparison to the rest of the High Fantasy MMO selectable group.
“23% of World of Warcraft gamers are women. This is substantially lower than the group average (36%). A lot of game researchers (Nic and I included) focused on studying WoW as an exemplar of online gaming, but it looks like WoW was not only an outlier in terms of market success, but also in terms of its demographics relative to other games in the genre.”

If we take this seriously, it means a lot of the research about MMOs in genereal is in fact biased because the excesive prominency of WoW.

If we then think that GW2 has been and (even with all the mounts and other “normalizing measures”) still is THE anti WoW MMO, then it is easy to speculate that it is very possible the margin of female participation in GW2 could even be above the average. The guilds were I have participated in GW2 all have had a truly high amount of (real) women actively playing, so I’m inclined to believe it.

EDIT: I correct myself. I found a declaration from the researcher, Nick Yee, that sets this issue, at least with the data they have:
According to their study, 34% of Guild Wars players are women.

wrathmagik.3518:

I play only female toons. No male ones and i’m male.

It really has to do with how secure you are with yourself. Why does it even bother you? You need to really think about it.

As for me. If i’m going to be looking at something for hours on end I’d rather it be a females rear then a mans lol

you talk about how it has to do with how secure you are with yourself and then you use the most insecure excuse there is

besides, you look at whats going around more often than at your character’s pixelated ass

gender of your character does not matter and normal people don’t really think twice about it, its all about what looks coolest with your intended fashion wars getup

Einlanzer.1627:

I’m not sure why you think I’m frothing at the mouth about anything in this topic. It’s merely an interesting discussion. Also, it wasn’t “proven wrongful”, it’s just nuanced. A relatively small % of players are female in most MMOs, it just so happens that high fantasy MMOs that are not WoW are the exception.

Anecdotal just seems to be your go to buzz argument is all, even when unfounded.

It was proven wrong. You made a statement without fact, someone disputed it using fact, thus statement had nothing to stand on and was proven wrong. No amount of backtracking can hide that.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

wow reading this kitten stuff just wow . smh glad it is noting at all like some people seam to think it is .

Ignorance is not a virtue. Whether you like it or not, science will stay consistent. You will just have to learn to accept it, or be crushed by the torrent of reality.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

PistolWhip.2697:

Plus, I must again stress, anyone busy staring at their character’s hind quarters is likely a detriment to their team because they won’t be watching the game.

You’d be amazed what someone can accomplish with peripheral vision alone.

Sadly, such people tend to pervade my solo queue in ranked, so I am quite well versed with those only using peripheral vision.

Killerbot.8645:

gender of your character does not matter and normal people don’t really think twice about it, its all about what looks coolest with your intended fashion wars getup

Thanks for telling us about “normal people”. I’m sure your wide understanding of normality is highly valuable.

In actuality, if you look at it from that standpoint, I would like you to go onto youtube or twitch for example, and look at how many people play characters of their same own gender in video games. You might find, shockingly to yourself, most pick their own gender as a default.

Though I agree, a lot of people are open to playing the opposite gender, they often don’t go for it as a default, why is that?

Because the most “NORMAL” thing, is when entering a new environment, or new world, you keep what is most familiar to you as comfort. This means, people will likely make their own gender, of their own race, and deviate from it only once they have familiarised themselves with the new environment. This isn’t just limited to games and gender either.

If you are at a social function, and you see people you don’t know, and a group of people you have some familiarity with, you will go toward the latter, even if just initially to anchor yourself. People tend to go as far as being more attracted or even likely to agree with or be closer to those who have similar features (such as found in in Sean Mackinnon, Christian Jordan and Anne Wilson’s work, ‘Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin’). Gender is a large part of this familiarity for a lot of people (enough to make it the “norm”).

In a sense you were correct, in that “normal people don’t think about it,”, they don’t, they just go for what ever is similar, and that usually includes gender

Odokuro.5049:

Does anyone else feel uneasy playing a toon of the opposite gender, I do.

Nope.

I’m a guy, and even though most female toons are more pleasing on the eye to look at, playing one just makes me feel, “Strange”, not to mention the countless guys hitting on my toon, only to find out I’m a guy, and calling me well, some unpleasant names to say the least.

That happened to me during GW1. I can’t say it ever did in GW2. I think the playerbase as a whole has gotten more mature or at least has learned to not make assumptions.

PistolWhip.2697:

Einlanzer.1627:

I’m not sure why you think I’m frothing at the mouth about anything in this topic. It’s merely an interesting discussion. Also, it wasn’t “proven wrongful”, it’s just nuanced. A relatively small % of players are female in most MMOs, it just so happens that high fantasy MMOs that are not WoW are the exception.

Anecdotal just seems to be your go to buzz argument is all, even when unfounded.

It was proven wrong. You made a statement without fact, someone disputed it using fact, thus statement had nothing to stand on and was proven wrong. No amount of backtracking can hide that.

Anecdotal wasn’t even mentioned in the quote that you posted. There are two things going on in our specific sub-conversation on this thread:

1. I assumed the ratio of male to female players in GW2 was something like 4:1, when it’s probably more like 2:1. My bad, and I admitted it. But that conclusion was based on prior research, it wasn’t just a baseless assumption, and it holds true in other games, including WoW. So, in reality, this topic is nuanced, and we actually don’t know for sure what the ratio is in GW2.

2.) You argued that women are demonstrably, through scientific evidence, objectively the more attractive sex, which I call BS on. I’ve seen no convincing scientific research corroborating this, and that psychology today article certainly doesn’t cut it. The flaws in any research purporting to support this claim are obvious as beauty is relative, subjective, and the image of beauty changes over time.

If you’re going to continue pointlessly arguing with me to prop up your own ego, try harder.

Odokuro.5049:

Does anyone else feel uneasy playing a toon of the opposite gender, I do.

I’m a guy, and even though most female toons are more pleasing on the eye to look at, playing one just makes me feel, “Strange”, not to mention the countless guys hitting on my toon, only to find out I’m a guy, and calling me well, some unpleasant names to say the least.

Like I want to make a female norn warrior, because I don’t like how the male norn’s torso seems to be shorter on one side than the other, lol.

I completely understand. I have a hard time playing female toons myself. I think it has something to do with projecting/immersing your self in a fantasy environment. Truth be told I would also rather read male driven books. It’s probably because I can empathize more with a male character than a female. Same holds true for gaming…

Einlanzer.1627:

PistolWhip.2697:

Einlanzer.1627:

I’m not sure why you think I’m frothing at the mouth about anything in this topic. It’s merely an interesting discussion. Also, it wasn’t “proven wrongful”, it’s just nuanced. A relatively small % of players are female in most MMOs, it just so happens that high fantasy MMOs that are not WoW are the exception.

Anecdotal just seems to be your go to buzz argument is all, even when unfounded.

It was proven wrong. You made a statement without fact, someone disputed it using fact, thus statement had nothing to stand on and was proven wrong. No amount of backtracking can hide that.

Anecdotal wasn’t even mentioned in the quote that you posted. There are two things going on in our specific sub-conversation on this thread:

1. I assumed the ratio of male to female players in GW2 was something like 4:1, when it’s probably more like 2:1. My bad, and I admitted it. But that conclusion was based on prior research, it wasn’t just a baseless assumption, and it holds true in other games, including WoW. So, in reality, this topic is nuanced, and we actually don’t know for sure what the ratio is in GW2.

2.) You argued that women are demonstrably, through scientific evidence, objectively the more attractive sex, which I call BS on. I’ve seen no convincing scientific research corroborating this, and that psychology today article certainly doesn’t cut it. The flaws in any research purporting to support this claim are obvious as beauty is relative, subjective, and the image of beauty changes over time.

If you’re going to continue pointlessly arguing with me to prop up your own ego, try harder.

Not in that specific quote yes, but you should check your post history in this thread alone.

1). Yes you admitted it, in a flip flop fashion, instead of just saying you were wrong due to ignorance, which is the case. Though, that’s about it for that matter.

2). Beauty is relative indeed, but there is a general consensus to follow. Just because morals can be relative, doesn’t mean there isn’t a general consensus on what is okay and what isn’t. In that article itself it has sources to follow, I’m not gonna do all your leg work. On the contrary, I have seen no evidence supporting the fact that there ISN’T a generally accepted gender/sex to be the more attractive.

It isn’t pointless, it’s about exposing your lack of credibility because I feel I have an obligation as someone with insight on this subject to dispel falsities, of which you just happen to provide in copious amounts.

If you want to actually sound intelligent in your arguments, try harder.

Faaris.8013:

Come on Einlanzer, you can do better. Google is right on that other tab you have opened anyway. Here are statistics from 2017:

http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

[img]http://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages-1024x878.png[/img]

About 36% of MMO Game players are female. Your assumption that only 20% of the players are female is wrong, probably anecdotal (to use the phrase you keep using to argue against others). Please provide a source next time you throw out numbers here, you can expect to be called out on it.

That study is a voluntary one, so it’s going to suffer from some amount of self-reporting bias.

Although it’s still one of the better data collections I’ve seen. To bad organizations like the ESA that have the resources to do unbiased studies are completely clueless about how to classify what a “gamer” is. (last I saw the ESA counted people that play a phone game while sitting at their docter waiting room count as “gamers”)