Guild Wars 2

To solve the problem of zerging, they need to create in depth content that rewards individual skill and contribution, rather than catering to karma trains

Kite.2510:

Seera.5916:

Kite.2510:

Seera.5916:

Killing all of the farms out in open world PvE will drive farmers to dungeons. Then the maps will be deserted. Undoing the reason for the megaserver. To keep maps populated.

Who said anything about killing farms?!

Because the farms are where the zergs are.

They’ll still be getting good loot!
And they’ll still be rewarded for having more players!
The difference will be that when they have 10 players, they’ll be getting the rewards equivalent of 20, and when they have 50 players, they’ll also be getting the rewards equivalent of 20…

I’ve repeated my self so many times in this topic that I could swear that you pretend to misinterpret my suggestion on purpose just to give me a headache.
I that’s the case, you’ve won! You gave me a headache!

Your suggestion is to lower the amount of loot a group gets if it does too much content together in a period of time.

If 20 people spawns 10 creatures and 50 people spawns 25 creatures, then my chances of loot should not be any different. If 50% of creatures spawn a drop, then I should get 5 drops with 20 people and 12-13 drops with 50 people. Period.

Just because I’m with others doesn’t mean I should get less chance at loot. Because that’s what your suggestion is.

Faoiltiarna.4271:

This thread stinks of socialism….

That is absurd! This thread is the exact opposite of it. This thread is asking for individuals to get more for playing solo than for playing in groups. See how being “social” is to be punished then?

To the OP, still no.

‘Nerf mindless zerg farming.’

So that we can instead go mindless solo farming, mindless dungeon farming or mindless eotm farming? Nothing will ever stop pve from being mindless.

sorudo.9054:

instead of limiting the useful loot, why not limit the junk loot by about 60%.
getting gear in the first place is not something that can’t be done but when the inventory space is wasted with junk then it has no use to have good loot because the game will bug you with a big fat window to show you can’t pick it up.

limit junk, not actual loot.

We barelly get any junk!
And even if we did get less junk, they stack on the same item space! That would be pointless!

The rest of the loot is barely usefull! You salvage millions of trashy weapons, just to get 1 piece of leather and perhaps a luck essence from each! That’s trashy, but they give so little because in zergs we get so Kitten many of these!

Seera.5916:

Just because I’m with others doesn’t mean I should get less chance at loot. Because that’s what your suggestion is.

Coldtart.4785:

‘Nerf mindless zerg farming.’

So that we can instead go mindless solo farming, mindless dungeon farming or mindless eotm farming? Nothing will ever stop pve from being mindless.

Settle it with loot quality not quantity. The more people in the immediate area the lower the quality of loot the fewer the people the greater the loot quality.

Now your zergs will be smaller.

Most events that scale up that have adds have increased time for completion.

Assume 50% of foes will drop loot.

So let’s say 20 people and 10 foes takes 30 seconds. That’s 5 drops. That’s 0.1666 drops per second. Or 10 drops per minute

Current scaled up conditions: 50 people and 25 foes and lets say that takes 40 seconds. And 12-13 drops. That’s 0.3 to 0.325 drops per second. Or 18 to 20 drops per minute

Your proposal: 50 and 25 foes. Still takes 40 seconds, but I only get 5 drops. That’s 0.125 drops per second. Or 7 to 8 drops per minute.

Why do I mention rate? Because zergs that deal with content with adds rarely stick together just for that one event. They typically are on a train. Jumping from one event to another.

And that rate of drops would affect how profitable a farm is. And that’s what zergs do in PvE areas. They’re groups of farmers. Unless it’s one of the world bosses, but they don’t spawn adds that drop loot a majority of the time and when they do, it’s reported to be champions which drop champion bags at a 100% rate if they’re coded to drop loot.

And the zerg will go to the farm with the highest loot to time ratio (as that correlates typically to a gold to time ratio) as long as it’s relatively easy.

You’re not solving the problem by nerfing loot for zergs. The only way to solve the problem is to make everything have the same gold to time ratio. That’s the ONLY way.

Theftwind.8976:

Settle it with loot quality not quantity. The more people in the immediate area the lower the quality of loot the fewer the people the greater the loot quality.

Now your zergs will be smaller.

And then map chat will be toxic with people telling others to go away because they were there first and the person just caused the quality of loot to go down.

No thanks.

The Maize Balm farmers and the Kill Achievement farmers have issues being civil to each other when both are on the same map.

Coldtart.4785:

Nothing will ever stop pve from being mindless.

I do not share that opinion. My faith is still strong that MMORPGs will continue to evolve.

Coldtart.4785:

Nothing will ever stop pve from being mindless.

Relax, WvW is also brain dead most of the time.
PvP has it’s moments, but how rare are they?

Azhure.1857:

I do not share that opinion. My faith is still strong that MMORPGs will continue to evolve.

I am glad that you generalized the statement so I can agree with you.

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

What I’m saying is that there is a very freakishly big gap between the loot small groups and single players are getting, and the loot an 50 man zerg is getting. Having an inventory of more than 60 blues and greens for half an hour play, while solo and leveling players struggle to get 2 isn’t exactly normal, for a game you are supposed to play “however you want”.

~Snip~

Tell me this statement is a joke. You’ve got to be kidding if you don’t think a leveling player can’t fill up his inventory with blues and greens in the same amount of time as a 50 man zerg? Do you know how many times while leveling a character in normal PvE I would have to stop and clear out inventory? Quite easily within 30 minutes some times, and that’s with even equipping larger size bags than you normally get(usually handed down from some other character). I think you’re trying to combat a problem that doesn’t really exist if this is the reason for your suggestion.

If you really want to improve reward structure, ask for better rewards for events (the UI and ground chests). Do not ask for less loot from drops.

Yeah, i get that you hope, that if Anet nerfs drop numbers, then maybe, just maybe they will increase drop quality. Unfortunately, it’s far more likely they’d stop with just the nerf phase. That’s why you never start proposals with nerfs – you are quite likely to get them, but without buff followups.

As it is now, it’s hard to treat your proposal as anything else than a straight drop nerf call – because the core of what you are asking for is just that.

No. Just no.

We don’t need any more changes that reward players less.

0/10
Terrible suggestion.
The game is basically Choke Loot Wars 2.
We already getting crap loot and rewards in the entire game.

They need to make automatic loot. So you dont have to spam F, to loot. And then some dude drops the flag, and you accidently pick it up..

I got 146 slots on 11 of my characters, 18-36 slots are used for addional armors on avg…
Leaving me 110+ slots on charcters. others: 2 have 148and 2 have 125…

cleaning them out with a copper fed salage-o-matic is fast and trouble free. with standard 25 uses kits it tend to be abit annoying but just bring a couple, and you have some usefull salvage capabilitie as well… else you are left with another great option: Mystic salvage kits. 250 uses, mostly suited for rares and exotics. but generally helpfull, though minor sigils and runes tend to stack up fast…

Oh and the occasional farm can be VERY useful to get some needed t6/ecto/asc crafting mats or plain karma and exp. as there are as many farms as there are types of loot…

GL! ( oh and you’ll need those farms if you’d ever want to make more then 1 legendary…
250 t6 costs 150 gold minimaly and you tend to need 7 stacks and astack of ecto’s and dust as well so make that 1200 gold just for the mats for the 2 always required gifts…

It can be earned in 100 days of dungenon farms or in a few weeks of hardcore farmin in usefull spots. then a precursor… well 400-1100 additional gold… think about it….

Oh and I tend to be a hesitant farmer… I cannot no-life but I generally notic I made a good score.

Theftwind.8976:

Settle it with loot quality not quantity. The more people in the immediate area the lower the quality of loot the fewer the people the greater the loot quality.

Now your zergs will be smaller.

Then along comes the zerg to grief your solo gameplay by ruining your loot quality. Much like how individual players can foil a zerg’s event-failure plan.

With megaservers, people are everywhere these days. I don’t want them messing with my loot, no matter how many of them there are.

I give up…
My flame shield melted.
It’s impossible to convince you guys, and by looking at how childish some of the answers are, it looks like I never had the chance…

Lets hope that A-net will eventually deal with this problem, one way or another.
Until then, I don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to play.

Theftwind.8976:

Settle it with loot quality not quantity. The more people in the immediate area the lower the quality of loot the fewer the people the greater the loot quality.

Now your zergs will be smaller.

Pretty much what we have now. Not necessarily the player factor but the low quality loot.

Looking at some answers, I’m not sure if everybody has grasped the purpose of the thread.
OP is not trying to nerf farming at all, just put an end to the unfair mechanic where the scaling system, trying to balance the event for a large amount of people, ends up generating more loot sources and makes the event more profitable than if a lower amount of players would be taking part on it.

Vargamonth.2047:

Looking at some answers, I’m not sure if everybody has grasped the purpose of the thread.
OP is not trying to nerf farming at all, just put an end to the unfair mechanic where the scaling system, trying to balance the event for a large amount of people, ends up generating more loot sources and makes the event more profitable than if a lower amount of players would be taking part on it.

The drop rate for loot should not be affected by number of players at the event. If an enemy has a 50% drop rate when 1 person is there, it should have a 50% drop rate when 100 people are there.

DR wasn’t in the game initially and I happened to play it for a good few weeks before DR was introduced. And honestly guys, this game was so much more fun before DR, basically punishing people for wanting to play. Absolutely abhorrent system.
We thought they were going to revert it when they got rid of the bots, but nope that never happened.

We really don’t need anymore systems that amount to choking the rewards for time invested. I’m all for improving the game so that it’s not mindless, but that won’t ever happen. This game is designed for casuals if you make the content require any degree of skill or thought they will complain – it just won’t happen and zergs will always be part of the game because of that.

Another thing it adds is another level of complication for new players and casuals to understand, will they stick around long enough for them to figure out why they stopped getting loot an hour ago, I’d say with the amount of other games on offer in today’s market they simply won’t.

No support.

Vargamonth.2047:

Looking at some answers, I’m not sure if everybody has grasped the purpose of the thread.
OP is not trying to nerf farming at all, just put an end to the unfair mechanic where the scaling system, trying to balance the event for a large amount of people, ends up generating more loot sources and makes the event more profitable than if a lower amount of players would be taking part on it.

He may be thinking about it, but what he asked for is a nerf to drops. The end result of implementing his suggestion would be far less drops total in the game. And his suggestion to that? “We’ll assume Anet will fix that later”.
No, thank you very much.

He is not interested in trying to propose a system that woule be more “fair” (whatever that means, on those forums “fair” ended up being an extremely subjective term), but not hurt the community as a whole. He just seems interested (in the interest of “fairness”) to bring everyone’s drop rates down to a level he himself describes as unsatisfying. And when pressed further, says that maybe those poor drops will be then improved by Anet (and then, maybe not), but he doesn’t seem to be that much interested in pursuing that thought.

It’s quite clear, that he had seen that there is a problem, but is unwilling to put an effort into understanding it better, preferring to shoot for a highly superficial “solution” that sounds simple and clear. Which, unfortunately (as most simple solutions happen to be), is not so simple and doesn’t actually solve anything.

Astralporing.1957:

Vargamonth.2047:

Looking at some answers, I’m not sure if everybody has grasped the purpose of the thread.
OP is not trying to nerf farming at all, just put an end to the unfair mechanic where the scaling system, trying to balance the event for a large amount of people, ends up generating more loot sources and makes the event more profitable than if a lower amount of players would be taking part on it.

He may be thinking about it, but what he asked for is a nerf to drops. The end result of implementing his suggestion would be far less drops total in the game. And his suggestion to that? “We’ll assume Anet will fix that later”.
No, thank you very much.

He is not interested in trying to propose a system that woule be more “fair” (whatever that means, on those forums “fair” ended up being an extremely subjective term), but not hurt the community as a whole. He just seems interested (in the interest of “fairness”) to bring everyone’s drop rates down to a level he himself describes as unsatisfying. And when pressed further, says that maybe those poor drops will be then improved by Anet (and then, maybe not), but he doesn’t seem to be that much interested in pursuing that thought.

It’s quite clear, that he had seen that there is a problem, but is unwilling to put an effort into understanding it better, preferring to shoot for a highly superficial “solution” that sounds simple and clear. Which, unfortunately (as most simple solutions happen to be), is not so simple and doesn’t actually solve anything.

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards of more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

Dumb suggestion, zerg content is what GW2 does best, and if you were getting capped on loot, well, I’d just stop logging in, because I’ve done everything in the game that can be done “for fun” and at this point there’s no reason to log in but to work for certain long term goals like legendaries and really expensive weapon skins, which require lots of loot to acquire.

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards that more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

I have a suggestion for you, before you thought of this idea…did you do an event with say 5 players and tally your rewards, then do the exact same event with 20 players and tally your rewards? IF you did, and you’re talking about the rewards from the event…were they any different? IF you’re talking about the drops from mobs in the event(which have nothing to do with the event rewards by the way), then you should be getting more drops from the mobs in the event with 20 players than the one with 5 because there are more mobs to begin with when there are those 20 players vs the 5. Now tell me there’s an issue after reading the above statement.

Keep in mind, event rewards(which are rewards, and not loot), are different from mob loot(which are not rewards)…they’re mutually exclusive. One does affect the other, nor should the mob loot be capped, because not all mobs are associated with events.

Zaklex.6308:

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards that more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

I have a suggestion for you, before you thought of this idea…did you do an event with say 5 players and tally your rewards, then do the exact same event with 20 players and tally your rewards? IF you did, and you’re talking about the rewards from the event…were they any different? IF you’re talking about the drops from mobs in the event(which have nothing to do with the event rewards by the way), then you should be getting more drops from the mobs in the event with 20 players than the one with 5 because there are more mobs to begin with when there are those 20 players vs the 5. Now tell me there’s an issue after reading the above statement.

Keep in mind, event rewards(which are rewards, and not loot), are different from mob loot(which are not rewards)…they’re mutually exclusive. One does affect the other, nor should the mob loot be capped, because not all mobs are associated with events.

I’m strictly speaking about loot rewards (with the exception of bandit chest’s in SW that are lootable by everyone)
The event may give whatever the hell it wants. I would have a problem with that, since everyone would get the same.
When it comes to looting mobs however, I want to close the gap of loot you get when you are on a small or a big group!

Kite.2510:

Zaklex.6308:

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards that more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

I have a suggestion for you, before you thought of this idea…did you do an event with say 5 players and tally your rewards, then do the exact same event with 20 players and tally your rewards? IF you did, and you’re talking about the rewards from the event…were they any different? IF you’re talking about the drops from mobs in the event(which have nothing to do with the event rewards by the way), then you should be getting more drops from the mobs in the event with 20 players than the one with 5 because there are more mobs to begin with when there are those 20 players vs the 5. Now tell me there’s an issue after reading the above statement.

Keep in mind, event rewards(which are rewards, and not loot), are different from mob loot(which are not rewards)…they’re mutually exclusive. One does affect the other, nor should the mob loot be capped, because not all mobs are associated with events.

I’m strictly speaking about loot rewards (with the exception of bandit chest’s in SW that are lootable by everyone)
The event may give whatever the hell it wants. I would have a problem with that, since everyone would get the same.
When it comes to looting mobs however, I want to close the gap of loot you get when you are on a small or a big group!

And it punishes groups who play together. Guilds get punished for running Orr Temple runs or for running around maps and doing events together.

It is not fair that a group of people who defeat 10 enemies should get the same number of drops as a group who defeats 5 enemies. And that’s what your proposal says. I call that unfair and punishment for playing with a group. And you should never be punished in this game for playing in a group. No matter what size that group is.

Kite.2510:

Zaklex.6308:

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards that more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

I have a suggestion for you, before you thought of this idea…did you do an event with say 5 players and tally your rewards, then do the exact same event with 20 players and tally your rewards? IF you did, and you’re talking about the rewards from the event…were they any different? IF you’re talking about the drops from mobs in the event(which have nothing to do with the event rewards by the way), then you should be getting more drops from the mobs in the event with 20 players than the one with 5 because there are more mobs to begin with when there are those 20 players vs the 5. Now tell me there’s an issue after reading the above statement.

Keep in mind, event rewards(which are rewards, and not loot), are different from mob loot(which are not rewards)…they’re mutually exclusive. One does affect the other, nor should the mob loot be capped, because not all mobs are associated with events.

I’m strictly speaking about loot rewards (with the exception of bandit chest’s in SW that are lootable by everyone)
The event may give whatever the hell it wants. I would have a problem with that, since everyone would get the same.
When it comes to looting mobs however, I want to close the gap of loot you get when you are on a small or a big group!

Then your logic is flawed and this is a failed suggestion…remember the ethos: play the game the way you want to play it. So for those that want to solo, they know what they’ll get, those that want to play with large groups, they know what they’ll get. You can’t restrict how anyone wants to play, and that’s basically what your proposal does; what about events like Tequatl that can handle up to a 100 people, are you saying those people that do it with 100 should get the same amount of loot as those that can do it with only 50 people? Just read this over and over in your head, we aren’t talking fuzzy logic hear, but that’s exactly what you’re proposing using, fuzzy logic and math.

What I think this comes down to is jealousy. Some players’ skill level or skill set up isn’t as efficient at killing mobs faster than zergs, so they want zerg loot nerfed. The math here is simple: (# of players) X (DPS) / (HP of individual enemy) – (time to kill enemy) = profit

Seera.5916:

Kite.2510:

Zaklex.6308:

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards that more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

I have a suggestion for you, before you thought of this idea…did you do an event with say 5 players and tally your rewards, then do the exact same event with 20 players and tally your rewards? IF you did, and you’re talking about the rewards from the event…were they any different? IF you’re talking about the drops from mobs in the event(which have nothing to do with the event rewards by the way), then you should be getting more drops from the mobs in the event with 20 players than the one with 5 because there are more mobs to begin with when there are those 20 players vs the 5. Now tell me there’s an issue after reading the above statement.

Keep in mind, event rewards(which are rewards, and not loot), are different from mob loot(which are not rewards)…they’re mutually exclusive. One does affect the other, nor should the mob loot be capped, because not all mobs are associated with events.

I’m strictly speaking about loot rewards (with the exception of bandit chest’s in SW that are lootable by everyone)
The event may give whatever the hell it wants. I would have a problem with that, since everyone would get the same.
When it comes to looting mobs however, I want to close the gap of loot you get when you are on a small or a big group!

And it punishes groups who play together. Guilds get punished for running Orr Temple runs or for running around maps and doing events together.

It is not fair that a group of people who defeat 10 enemies should get the same number of drops as a group who defeats 5 enemies. And that’s what your proposal says. I call that unfair and punishment for playing with a group. And you should never be punished in this game for playing in a group. No matter what size that group is.

No it’s not punishment. It is actually fair that a group defeating 10 enemies should get the same drops as a group that defeats 5 enemies. Why?

1) Because the event takes the exact same amount of time, and if not more players will finish it even faster. So the drops per minute for the individual player will be the exact same, why shouldn’kitten

2) Few players have a challenge, more players make it easy mode (safety in numbers). The less the players, the higher the challenge, yet you want more rewards for less challenge. Why?

3) If events with more players spawned only veterans /elites then it wouldn’t be a problem, now they spawn a large number of normal mobs, see for example Temple of Grenth or Temple of Melandru final events. The individual player isn’t doing anything more if it’s 20+ players, but more mobs spawn resulting in more drops for everyone, while the chance of getting even hit is diminished. Why should these players be rewarded more?

While I believe more players shouldn’t get more rewards, it’s all about the individual player and keeping the drops equal, I don’t want a direct nerf. The way they did the rewards in the Silverwastes events is the best way and needs to be applied everywhere. Get rewards for the fact that you finish an event, not based on how many mobs you tag or how many people where there.

maddoctor.2738:

Seera.5916:

Kite.2510:

Zaklex.6308:

Kite.2510:

~Snip~

My intention was to Buff (double) the rewards small groups are getting, and nerf the rewards that more than 20 player groups (stop being increased after intense enemy tagging)

I have a suggestion for you, before you thought of this idea…did you do an event with say 5 players and tally your rewards, then do the exact same event with 20 players and tally your rewards? IF you did, and you’re talking about the rewards from the event…were they any different? IF you’re talking about the drops from mobs in the event(which have nothing to do with the event rewards by the way), then you should be getting more drops from the mobs in the event with 20 players than the one with 5 because there are more mobs to begin with when there are those 20 players vs the 5. Now tell me there’s an issue after reading the above statement.

Keep in mind, event rewards(which are rewards, and not loot), are different from mob loot(which are not rewards)…they’re mutually exclusive. One does affect the other, nor should the mob loot be capped, because not all mobs are associated with events.

I’m strictly speaking about loot rewards (with the exception of bandit chest’s in SW that are lootable by everyone)
The event may give whatever the hell it wants. I would have a problem with that, since everyone would get the same.
When it comes to looting mobs however, I want to close the gap of loot you get when you are on a small or a big group!

And it punishes groups who play together. Guilds get punished for running Orr Temple runs or for running around maps and doing events together.

It is not fair that a group of people who defeat 10 enemies should get the same number of drops as a group who defeats 5 enemies. And that’s what your proposal says. I call that unfair and punishment for playing with a group. And you should never be punished in this game for playing in a group. No matter what size that group is.

No it’s not punishment. It is actually fair that a group defeating 10 enemies should get the same drops as a group that defeats 5 enemies. Why?

1) Because the event takes the exact same amount of time, and if not more players will finish it even faster. So the drops per minute for the individual player will be the exact same, why shouldn’kitten

2) Few players have a challenge, more players make it easy mode (safety in numbers). The less the players, the higher the challenge, yet you want more rewards for less challenge. Why?

3) If events with more players spawned only veterans /elites then it wouldn’t be a problem, now they spawn a large number of normal mobs, see for example Temple of Grenth or Temple of Melandru final events. The individual player isn’t doing anything more if it’s 20+ players, but more mobs spawn resulting in more drops for everyone, while the chance of getting even hit is diminished. Why should these players be rewarded more?

While I believe more players shouldn’t get more rewards, it’s all about the individual player and keeping the drops equal, I don’t want a direct nerf. The way they did the rewards in the Silverwastes events is the best way and needs to be applied everywhere. Get rewards for the fact that you finish an event, not based on how many mobs you tag or how many people where there.

Your solution is a better one than the OP’s.

But in events where mobs drop loot, the chance of them dropping loot should not be changed just because of the number of people playing with me.

Zergs with normal mobs already have an inherent drop in loot. Because it becomes harder for people to tag everything if there are more people in there applying damage. The chance of drops should not have how many people are there as a factor.

OP’s solution has the possibility of punishing large groups if the nerf rate is too high. It will be too hard to equalize based on number of players. Especially for different events where scaling effects new spawns differently. Like some spawn vets and champs which may slow down the event, but others like you mentioned just spawn more normal mobs. Her solution will punish someone. Because ANet would never be able to get the percentage right.

Mobs that drop loot that spawn from events should not be affected by number of people present.

I’d say a mixture would be best. Have the elites and champs have a chance at dropping loot if they spawn (they don’t get mowed down super quickly and would slow the event down). And if that loot isn’t a huge number, reduce chances of junk showing up in those drops.