Guild Wars 2

Dear Arenanet,

I have a couple max-level characters, but only one of them has total map completion. The only areas in which I’m missing Points of Interest, Skill Points, and Vistas (“map completion nodes” or “MCNs”) are the Borderlands and Eternal Battleground (“EB”). Now, I understand having to collect these map completion nodes in all of World vs World. To be required to enter PvP areas to collect MCNs, however, is redundant, tedious, and a royal pain in the kitten .

Please, for the love of all that is good, change map completion! Take out the PvP in World vs World in order to get 100% Map Completion. Having to do so just is not fun. I play the game to have fun, not because I want a second job for which I do not get paid. I know there are many other players that feel the same way I do.

Warmest Regards,

Esplen.3940

But the point of them being inside is that you have to capture the objective. They’re guiding you to play wvw( granted not forcing you since you can wait till someone else caps it or you colour changes).

To add it really is subjective in terms of timing, and as a result I guess opinion on the subject.

With the first mapping I did EB in WvW was the Holy of Holy Grails. Due to a tightly fought WvW scenario at the time, assumption as I know sfa about WvW, it took me over two months to get the final vista there I needed for final map completion. I waited a long time for the chance to get that final ding.

Tonight I went from 0% to complete in Eternal Battlegrounds in around 20 minutes on my second mapping. My server had the whole map and all I needed was more speed boosts.Not a fight or poi held by other servers in sight.

If you really are in a rush.

Map in the middle of the night. (outside of tournament times of course.)
Just stay up late, I guarantee, it’ll be fairly empty and fairly easy..or you could you know, actually play WvW for a bit. Follow the comm and get loot!

calyx.9086:

aerial.7021:

Which is exactly the position I am in, “Gate of Madness” doesn’t even get a look in most of the time other than it’s own self named map which it mostly owns, now I suppose I could server switch for 1800 gems, and I seriously considered this until I realized that if I in time got all 8 of my toons to map completion I would have to spend 43200 gem server switching I packed that idea in quickly.

Your realize that server transfers are account wide right? It’s not per character. You can’t have one toon on GoM and another on JQ, it doesn’t work that way.

Yes I am aware of that, my maths;

(9 Classes) * (3 Sides Red / Green & Blue) = 27 for each switch cost is 1800 gems, 1800 * 27 = 48,600 gems

Time is a factor so you ‘may’ be able to get all 9 classes through on just 3 switches, but you wouldn’t be very relaxed while doing this, the figures above are based on “absolute” worse case scenario.

The point is we should not have to pay money for map completion if our server that we joined isn’t into PvP, it wasn’t like the server was noted when I join mine if it was PvP, PvE or even somewhere in between. Naturally when I opened my account the first thing I wanted to do was play not research servers, in retrospect would I have chosen differently knowing what I know now? not sure, I don’t think so.

Wvw isn’t magic but “work”, one objective held by red might be blue 5 minutes later and in most cases that is what’s happening. So if you only go into wvw for 5 mins a day best at the same time, then the maps will likely always look the same to you.
And a server who is not doing well right now might be dominating the next matchup or in a few months when they either fell down the ranks and get opponents who are a better match or get a lot of people who transferred.

Just seems to me that people want an easymode reward.

This whole “But I don’t want to PvP” argument is a smokescreen imo due mainly to the fact 90% of mapping is a cakewalk outside timesink, especially with the new arrow pointing you to every hidden poi, vista, etc.

With the recent update it’s easier than ever. Leave WvW in. People should earn it. Stop being lazy.

fireflyry.7023:

Just seems to me that people want an easymode reward.

This whole “But I don’t want to PvP” argument is a smokescreen imo due mainly to the fact 90% of mapping is a cakewalk outside timesink, especially with the new arrow pointing you to every hidden poi, vista, etc.

With the recent update it’s easier than ever. Leave WvW in. People should earn it. Stop being lazy.

Well no, that makes -9001 sense. Mapping the entire game world is extremely time-consuming. I don’t get how you could ever call it a cakewalk. Sure, it doesn’t take skill, but it still doesn’t, even with WvW. That doesn’t detract from it being tedious.

What I don’t understand is your smokescreen. Why are you obsessed with “people earning it” and “not being lazy”? How does it remotely affect you as an individual?

Labjax.2465:

Well no, that makes -9001 sense. Mapping the entire game world is extremely time-consuming. I don’t get how you could ever call it a cakewalk. Sure, it doesn’t take skill, but it still doesn’t, even with WvW. That doesn’t detract from it being tedious.

What I don’t understand is your smokescreen. Why are you obsessed with “people earning it” and “not being lazy”? How does it remotely affect you as an individual?

Ehhh?

I directly stated it was a timesink in my post. As for you weird tangent into personalizing my comments with some sort of obsession…well yeah…pass. Outside that it has no effect on me as an individual. It cheapens the reward. Period.

Want it, go get it. Or do you want a legendary with it as well?

I’m going to agree with this being seriously annoying. I’m again on my adventures of getting World Completion done for the nth time. I need more Gifts of Exploration to make more legendaries (and what other reason is there to do it..).

Today I have been in Eternal Battlegrounds for over 8 hours straight, and we have yet to take Veloka, the last structure I need before 100%. It’s over-defended and sieged up to the max, arrow being carts everywhere and it’s right next to the enemy gates. It’s easy for them to respawn and run back. We’ll also pretty much never have Veloka “by default”, because we are always Green, since we always win.

I am relying on everyone else wanting to take Veloka, for a personal reason of mine. It’s such a terrible idea to force us to do WvW completion when they are placed inside enemy structures like this. I can’t force everyone to take it, it’d be extremely selfish of me to expect them to go take it. For a personal thing, I am stuck waiting and being bored, for 8 hours straight… I can’t exactly go do something else, there’s always a queue of at least 50 players to enter EB. I have to be here or I’ll miss out if it for some miraculous reason gets captured.

I hate this. This is not fun. This is annoying. I’m also taking up space, because I need to be selfish. I am on a poorly geared character that will be deleted once this is done. It’s backwards that I have to do this.

Absconditus.6804:

I’m going to agree with this being seriously annoying. I’m again on my adventures of getting World Completion done for the nth time. I need more Gifts of Exploration to make more legendaries (and what other reason is there to do it..).

Today I have been in Eternal Battlegrounds for over 8 hours straight, and we have yet to take Veloka, the last structure I need before 100%. It’s over-defended and sieged up to the max, arrow being carts everywhere and it’s right next to the enemy gates. It’s easy for them to respawn and run back. We’ll also pretty much never have Veloka “by default”, because we are always Green, since we always win.

I am relying on everyone else wanting to take Veloka, for a personal reason of mine. It’s such a terrible idea to force us to do WvW completion when they are placed inside enemy structures like this. I can’t force everyone to take it, it’d be extremely selfish of me to expect them to go take it. For a personal thing, I am stuck waiting and being bored, for 8 hours straight… I can’t exactly go do something else, there’s always a queue of at least 50 players to enter EB. I have to be here or I’ll miss out if it for some miraculous reason gets captured.

I hate this. This is not fun. This is annoying.

You could provide some omega golems so your team can take it. =)

I already have given Commanders that, but I can’t force them to go there. The enemy siege up there is absolutely ridiculous as well. I’d expect even a golem rush to be a failed venture. I give away siege because it helps our war effort, but I will never expect my team to go do something I want, just because I want it. That’s why I find this annoying. I am running around on a poorly geared character, being a liability, to try keep myself occupied. I stand around scouting (yawn!) and try pull my weight away from combat. This is far from fun, and I won’t and refuse to try force my team to do something they don’t naturally want to do. Veloka is one of these things that enemy teams tends to ignore. It’s the closest tower to the home base, the hardest to capture. And my server pretty much never gets our base up there. It’s ridiculous to expect us to transfer.

Again, it’s a selfish goal, that requires everyone else on the map wanting to do what you want to do. It’s of no benefit to them besides the others that may need it. So I’m stuck waiting.. hoping we for some reason are going up there to take it. Maybe I can then slip inside and grab the Point of Interest and Vista I need. 9 hours and counting..

…or do something else and maybe try again later….like maybe Anet designed it?

Dear Anet,

Please change map completion and access to legendary weapons. I’m stuck at this one keep and want my shiney now, not later. I have talked to all the players who earnt it the hard way and they are totally cool for you to make it easier…just for me. kthx

If they’re that good that they’re always green check in more often as they will get veloka at some point – be glad that you’re not red and need Jerrifer’s =) But even that is possible, just saw that we must’ve lost it at some point today and we currently tick at 500PPT 24/7.
Anyway, don’t be too shy to go to wvw, it’s tough but people usually don’t care whether or not you’re a pve player and uplevel or wear the wrong gear. Sometimes the battles are that exhausting that commanders do complain (usually reset night or when it’s about to coming second) but that’s rare. It’s not selfish if you want map completion, just give it some time. Would be the same if you needed some guarded skill point in orr and no megaservers were around and none of your friends – you’ll have to wait a bit.
(I was joking with the golems)

Please note that I am for the most part a WvW-focused player. I just do not have any “main” characters left that can do World Completion, so this is a secondary, duplicate, pointless Thief, with rubbish blues and greens rewarded through playing. Since I have no interest in having two Thief characters (I currently have 4..), this one will be deleted once World Completion is done. Expecting me to gear up something I will just delete is as ridiculous as expecting someone to server transfer.

I have played this game for more than 5000 hours, it’s not that I’m new to the process. I’ve done the World Completion more times than most people have and I got a few more legendary weapons than the norm (currently sitting at 8). I always find this step to be annoying though. More so now, since our server is practically always winning (Seafarer’s Rest, EU). We just don’t go up to Veloka much. We’ll gladly take Overlook, but we just run past Veloka or Waypoint out once that’s done.

Saying that a player should do something else, when there is a hefty queue at all times for Eternal Battlegrounds, is a bit shortsighted. What are they going to do? Go do something else, and then queue up and hope that after 30-40 minutes of waiting time, that the structure they need, are magically captured as they’re let into the map again? Yeah, that’s fun. Let’s get repeatedly disappointed! It doesn’t matter if this is intended, it’s poorly thought out and executed by ArenaNet. People complaining about it, is just as valid as them thinking this was a good idea. I for one, are tired of needing to get into enemy structures. To rely on others for my selfish goal of getting 100% World Completion, to get my reward. If these things were located outside the structures, that you had to take some risk in running around mapping things, that’d be different. This relies on others for your, selfish, goal. It is selfish in its nature, you are wanting something that only benefits you.

As such, I hate it. I like World vs. World, but I sure don’t like it when I’m after one thing, one structure, and have been waiting inside the map for 9 hours straight. Closing in on 10. It’s not fun. Since I am not on my main character(s), I feel like I’m wasting space, I am not contributing the way I could be if I were on my better geared characters. And.. even if we were to go up there, our enemies are using excessive Superior Arrow Carts, manned by fully upgraded players. They hurt so bad, and the Siege Bunker upgrades are rubbish compared to the damage output of the upgraded carts. Unless you’re a Warrior/Guardian perhaps. I don’t think this design for World Completion is a good one. It’d be better if it required things accessible outside of structures, near structures, at the doors of structures. And even then, you have players running around, not wanting to do WvW at times, wasting space and adding to queues, for players who wants to play. In a competitive game mode, I find this to be rather poor design.

Ok, so you make alts to get the gift of exploration and then delete them. Ok. You also know that uplevels aren’t as strong as exotic geared 80. Ok but what percentage of the playerbase do you make? Also how many people are on servers that high populated they have a queue? I’d say it’s your problem with how you want to play the game but it is not a problem for 99% of the other players.

What does it matter what percentage I make out? And don’t just pull statistics out of thin air and state it as a fact, to try make your opinion more valid. I’m fairly sure we’re talking about a different number than 99%, as there’s plenty of complaints to be found about the task needing WvW throughout the past two years.

I still think it’s a bad design to set up something in a competitive environment, that has players who have no interest in participating in that game mode, running/standing around taking up space for those that do, for extended periods of time, since they need to rely on others. It’s not like queues are uncommon, on a lot of servers, more so for Eternal Battlegrounds.

What are you going to suggest next? That those with this problem should just take their wallet out, move away from their friends and go on a lesser populated server? You can always transfer back and pay those 1800 Gems, right? Oh wait, you’ll probably even state that you can use Gold to convert to Gems, which in no way what so ever helps support the game. Good idea.

What exactly would be so wrong with changing how it works currently? How does this hurt you? In what possible way does that negatively impact you or me? Shouldn’t I with my 8 legendaries be dead against this, since it would “lessen” my past efforts? Well, no.. as this is but a tiny step of the effort involved in making these weapons. Why is it so important to you that a player should not need to rely on others for a selfish goal of World Completion? Why should it even need WvW in the first place? Having players not interested in the game mode clutter the battlefields. The Legendary crafting itself requires (almost) all game modes. Gift of Battle being out of participating in World vs. World. And why isn’t it including Dry Top and Edge of the Mists then? Southsun Cove? It should encompass everything right? You seem dead set on it needing to be as-is, and not made better for players overall. Why not suggest it to be made harder, add those new maps.

Another one of these threads? (Insert “beating a dead horse” gif here.) I’m on a Tier 8 server for WvW, and while it may have taken a while, it is still doable. The thing is, you’re so used to running around in PvE where there’s no challenge to mapping that when it DOES become a challenge, you don’t like it because you can’t accomplish it as easy as mapping Queensdale.

Here’s a suggestion: Ask in map chat if anyone else needs a POI or vista that you need. If there are people that do need it, group with them and go get it or take it. Keep your eye on the matchups to see when your server has a Borderland you need to map. Yes, its a pain when your server is the same color for 3 weeks in a row, but it WILL change at some point. The WvW community is a fun bunch, and most likely will group with you to help. You’ll also get good loot. Every time you gain a WvW level, you get a rank up chest with cash and drops, each tower gives a champ loot bag, and you get ascended crafting mats if you’re level 80.

Are you upleveled when you go to WvW? It might help to be level 80 with full exotics all around, and food buffs. If you haven’t yet leveled up your crafting to 400 chef, and whatever armor and weapons you use, do that first so you’re not spending your hard earned gold on food buffs, armor, and weapons. You get achievement points for it, too. These forums have good topics on WvW builds for your class, so check those out as well. I’ll wager that when you get with a group that takes that tower you need the POI from, and stick with them when they take Bay, Hills, or Garrison on a Borderlands map, or a few other towers or camps, you’ll be hooked on the unique fun that is WvW.

One suggestion: always have supply!

(@Absconditus.6804)
Oh my..
Alright, statistics: only the servers in gold league might have a queue – you mentioned that as part that makes it difficult to check back in more often. So it’s 6-9 servers which might effect people like you.
Other statistic: People who level alts usually keep and gear them, I don’t knoe anyone who deleted a level 80 alt. So people with the exact same problem like you are in the absolute minority and I don’t see why the game should be changed because of that. Pve players usually hate wvw and that’s why they want to get rid of wvw map completion – anet wanted wvw map completion to bring pve players to wvw. So you have a different problem than all others who wrote in this thread.
What “personally affects” me is the rift between wvw and pve as all changes regarding pve also affects wvw and in terms of the crit damage nerf I was less than amused. So I’d love people to try wvw, learn how to play and to realize that zerker is the best in pve and that all changes would also change how wvw works.
And yeah, try a lesser populated server then you might realize that wvw is not just zerging.

I will point out the obvious. No one is required to get world completion. Nothing is forcing you to do it. If you’re doing it because you want to do it, then you’ll have to live with the requirements to get it done, just like the rest of us.

I like the WvW part of map completion, it gives me a far greater sense of achievement than the PVE map. Nothing better than getting map completion and 2 gifts of exploration from taking a cap in WvW. Much more of a challenge than PVE, it may include a few deaths but thankfully its not real life :P

fireflyry.7023:

Ehhh?

I directly stated it was a timesink in my post.

I missed that part, my bad.

fireflyry.7023:

As for you weird tangent into personalizing my comments with some sort of obsession…well yeah…pass. Outside that it has no effect on me as an individual. It cheapens the reward. Period.

Want it, go get it. Or do you want a legendary with it as well?

How can it have no effect on you and cheapen the reward. If it has no effect on you, you wouldn’t care whether or not the reward is ever cheapened.

I just want you to be honest about this. You clearly are bothered individually by the idea of people getting the reward for less investment.

aerial.7021:

calyx.9086:

aerial.7021:

Which is exactly the position I am in, “Gate of Madness” doesn’t even get a look in most of the time other than it’s own self named map which it mostly owns, now I suppose I could server switch for 1800 gems, and I seriously considered this until I realized that if I in time got all 8 of my toons to map completion I would have to spend 43200 gem server switching I packed that idea in quickly.

Your realize that server transfers are account wide right? It’s not per character. You can’t have one toon on GoM and another on JQ, it doesn’t work that way.

Yes I am aware of that, my maths;

(9 Classes) * (3 Sides Red / Green & Blue) = 27 for each switch cost is 1800 gems, 1800 * 27 = 48,600 gems

Time is a factor so you ‘may’ be able to get all 9 classes through on just 3 switches, but you wouldn’t be very relaxed while doing this, the figures above are based on “absolute” worse case scenario.

The point is we should not have to pay money for map completion if our server that we joined isn’t into PvP, it wasn’t like the server was noted when I join mine if it was PvP, PvE or even somewhere in between. Naturally when I opened my account the first thing I wanted to do was play not research servers, in retrospect would I have chosen differently knowing what I know now? not sure, I don’t think so.

That’s not how that works. It’s 1800 per account, not per character on your account.

On topic: I’ll admit, I got my only world complete when I was on Eredon Terrace. We had a miraculous break about a year ago where we shifted from 24th to 22nd and suddenly I was able to get the whole thing done. I waited… three months for that to happen? It was awful. On top of that, I generally resent having to be put up against other players in order to get something. I choose not to play games where competition against other players is a driving factor. Internally, WvW really should not be considered a PvE game mode.

Shen Slayer.3058:

I agree with OP, there’s absolutely no reason to mix PVE and PVP. If they were around during GW1, they would know that players hated this and there was constant bickering about it.

Technically, The Mist (WvW included) is part of the world just like the Battle Isles (back in GW1) but instead you’re mostly traveling around in an on-going open player war zone that isn’t like Alliance Battles (Luxons vs Kurzicks). Although the Fortress battles (Fort Aspenwood) is similar to WvW but there’s no zerging.

What should have been.

There should have been a way to garner everything needed for a Legendary Weapon in each of the three major game modes. Players could have sought the means via any combination of game modes. Perhaps playing in all three would provide some advantage in ease of acquisition, and playing only one would be more time consuming. Please note, I’m not saying easier, just more supportive of the desires of diverse groups.

Why do I think this?

• The legendary weapon chase is just about the only long-term goal the game offers. Sure, there’s achievements, and we now have WvW rank and Ascended. However, the legendary was and remains the one major goal the game offers.
• No matter what ANet does, there are going to be players who dislike a certain game mode enough to not play it. Denying them the ability to pursue the only major goal you’ve provided was not a smart move for overall retention.
• This actually applies more to players who prefer solely PvP or solely WvW, or some combo of those two modes than it does to solely-PvE players, and those groups got the short end of the Legendary carrot.

All that said, I believe it’s too late to make such a change. Too many people have done it the ANet way. No matter if getting the legendary by playing solely PvE were objectively more time consuming than doing it the ANet way, people are going to believe it’s too easy.

Please note: I am not complaining, just discussing whether a game design that actually catered to more demographics would have been a better choice in retrospect.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What should have been.

There should have been a way to garner everything needed for a Legendary Weapon in each of the three major game modes.

The Legendary Weapon process already requires almost all game modes. You need materials from WvW and/or PvE. You need the Gift of Battle from WvW’s Badges of Honor. You need Obsidian Shards from PvE (though the currency, Karma, can be obtained very efficiently in WvW). You need a Gift from 500 dungeon tokens. The only thing that’s not included in the process of creating a Legendary Weapon, is sPvP. The actual crafting process, I like, as it is not relying on several other players to go get something done, in a game mode where doing so is actually a bit detrimental to your overall war effort, since it’s rather futile to take something that deep into enemy territory instead of maintaining your corner and the middle of the map and win.

World Completion aside, you still need to involve yourself in most things the game has to offer. I also still haven’t seen anyone challenge my question about what it is that makes it such a must for the process to be as-is, and not tweaked. In what possible way does it hurt players if they could get the Points of Interests by walking up to the doors. And if the Vistas were moved outside the structures? For that matter, considering there is a need to get the Gift of Battle at any rate if your goal is a Legendary Weapon, why does the World Completion need to incl. World vs. World maps? And if that’s so important to you, why is it alright that Southsun Cove, Edge of the Mists and Dry Top are exempt from the process? Shouldn’t these be required as well in that case? If you can provide an argument as to why it should be as-is and nothing should be changed, by all means, please explain.

As someone who has done this a few times by now, as someone who has gotten 8 Legendary Weapons (I point this out to say that I definitely understand where some players are coming from when they complain. I have been through the process more than once), I can sympathize with how annoying it can be to do this. It’s not fun, and it’s frustrating. You can’t just grab a group and go get it, if a full server map fails to do so, what do you think a group is going to achieve. There’s also a lot more to making a Legendary than World Completion alone. If you think that creates your weapon, you clearly haven’t tried making one.

Absconditus.6804:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There should have been a way to garner everything needed for a Legendary Weapon in each of the three major game modes.

The Legendary Weapon process already requires almost all game modes.

Yes. My point was that it should have been possible to garner what’s needed to make one in each of the three game modes without venturing into the the other modes, albeit that playing all three should have conferred an advantage. Feel free to disagree with that statement, but not with something I did not say.

i think wvw map completion was supposed to encourage people to go and try wvw but i do not think that is working as intended

felessan.9587:

aerial.7021:

calyx.9086:

aerial.7021:

Which is exactly the position I am in, “Gate of Madness” doesn’t even get a look in most of the time other than it’s own self named map which it mostly owns, now I suppose I could server switch for 1800 gems, and I seriously considered this until I realized that if I in time got all 8 of my toons to map completion I would have to spend 43200 gem server switching I packed that idea in quickly.

Your realize that server transfers are account wide right? It’s not per character. You can’t have one toon on GoM and another on JQ, it doesn’t work that way.

Yes I am aware of that, my maths;

(9 Classes) * (3 Sides Red / Green & Blue) = 27 for each switch cost is 1800 gems, 1800 * 27 = 48,600 gems

Time is a factor so you ‘may’ be able to get all 9 classes through on just 3 switches, but you wouldn’t be very relaxed while doing this, the figures above are based on “absolute” worse case scenario.

The point is we should not have to pay money for map completion if our server that we joined isn’t into PvP, it wasn’t like the server was noted when I join mine if it was PvP, PvE or even somewhere in between. Naturally when I opened my account the first thing I wanted to do was play not research servers, in retrospect would I have chosen differently knowing what I know now? not sure, I don’t think so.

That’s not how that works. It’s 1800 per account, not per character on your account.

On topic: I’ll admit, I got my only world complete when I was on Eredon Terrace. We had a miraculous break about a year ago where we shifted from 24th to 22nd and suddenly I was able to get the whole thing done. I waited… three months for that to happen? It was awful. On top of that, I generally resent having to be put up against other players in order to get something. I choose not to play games where competition against other players is a driving factor. Internally, WvW really should not be considered a PvE game mode.

I think what he’s saying is he transfers to and from his primary server and the T1 server for each character as they hit level 80. Not waiting until they all need WvW and just doing them all in one go.

So he pays 3600 round trip since he doesn’t wait for more than one to be ready. Which is crazy.

felessan.9587:

aerial.7021:

calyx.9086:

aerial.7021:

Which is exactly the position I am in, “Gate of Madness” doesn’t even get a look in most of the time other than it’s own self named map which it mostly owns, now I suppose I could server switch for 1800 gems, and I seriously considered this until I realized that if I in time got all 8 of my toons to map completion I would have to spend 43200 gem server switching I packed that idea in quickly.

Your realize that server transfers are account wide right? It’s not per character. You can’t have one toon on GoM and another on JQ, it doesn’t work that way.

Yes I am aware of that, my maths;

(9 Classes) * (3 Sides Red / Green & Blue) = 27 for each switch cost is 1800 gems, 1800 * 27 = 48,600 gems

Time is a factor so you ‘may’ be able to get all 9 classes through on just 3 switches, but you wouldn’t be very relaxed while doing this, the figures above are based on “absolute” worse case scenario.

The point is we should not have to pay money for map completion if our server that we joined isn’t into PvP, it wasn’t like the server was noted when I join mine if it was PvP, PvE or even somewhere in between. Naturally when I opened my account the first thing I wanted to do was play not research servers, in retrospect would I have chosen differently knowing what I know now? not sure, I don’t think so.

That’s not how that works. It’s 1800 per account, not per character on your account.

Something is a little wonky here, if I have 9 characters on my account and I want to map complete on all of them, my account has to switch 9 * 3.

(ed: since not all of them will reach Level 80 at the same time, while it is not necessary to reach 80 before entering WvW I like to leave that place for last.)

Seera.5916:

felessan.9587:

aerial.7021:

calyx.9086:

aerial.7021:

Which is exactly the position I am in, “Gate of Madness” doesn’t even get a look in most of the time other than it’s own self named map which it mostly owns, now I suppose I could server switch for 1800 gems, and I seriously considered this until I realized that if I in time got all 8 of my toons to map completion I would have to spend 43200 gem server switching I packed that idea in quickly.

Your realize that server transfers are account wide right? It’s not per character. You can’t have one toon on GoM and another on JQ, it doesn’t work that way.

Yes I am aware of that, my maths;

(9 Classes) * (3 Sides Red / Green & Blue) = 27 for each switch cost is 1800 gems, 1800 * 27 = 48,600 gems

Time is a factor so you ‘may’ be able to get all 9 classes through on just 3 switches, but you wouldn’t be very relaxed while doing this, the figures above are based on “absolute” worse case scenario.

The point is we should not have to pay money for map completion if our server that we joined isn’t into PvP, it wasn’t like the server was noted when I join mine if it was PvP, PvE or even somewhere in between. Naturally when I opened my account the first thing I wanted to do was play not research servers, in retrospect would I have chosen differently knowing what I know now? not sure, I don’t think so.

That’s not how that works. It’s 1800 per account, not per character on your account.

On topic: I’ll admit, I got my only world complete when I was on Eredon Terrace. We had a miraculous break about a year ago where we shifted from 24th to 22nd and suddenly I was able to get the whole thing done. I waited… three months for that to happen? It was awful. On top of that, I generally resent having to be put up against other players in order to get something. I choose not to play games where competition against other players is a driving factor. Internally, WvW really should not be considered a PvE game mode.

I think what he’s saying is he transfers to and from his primary server and the T1 server for each character as they hit level 80. Not waiting until they all need WvW and just doing them all in one go.

So he pays 3600 round trip since he doesn’t wait for more than one to be ready. Which is crazy.

As I said worst in “case”, I won’t “ever” switch 1 time let alone 27 times.

My choice will be to wait, or protest by never playing WvW for any reason and hate a mechanic of the game that “at the moment” I’d like to enjoy.

Labjax.2465:

fireflyry.7023:

Ehhh?

I directly stated it was a timesink in my post.

I missed that part, my bad.

fireflyry.7023:

As for you weird tangent into personalizing my comments with some sort of obsession…well yeah…pass. Outside that it has no effect on me as an individual. It cheapens the reward. Period.

Want it, go get it. Or do you want a legendary with it as well?

How can it have no effect on you and cheapen the reward. If it has no effect on you, you wouldn’t care whether or not the reward is ever cheapened.

I just want you to be honest about this. You clearly are bothered individually by the idea of people getting the reward for less investment.

It doesn’t directly or individually effect me. I already have it. That does not equate to me agreeing to said reward being cheapened and yes…that bothers me as it effects the game as a whole, outside either your or my opinion or your or my game experience. It’s an MMO, such things have larger relevance…stop attempting to personalize it.

It’s a big fluffy kitten. Once you start retro-actively changing the reward structure in an MMO it effects the whole game and kittens on the very foundations of why most play such games…time investment for reward.

Cheapen that and most cry wolf, for valid reasons.

It should go both ways. WvW players should earn an equivalent item for legendary crafting that doesn’t involve PvE (maybe world XP) and the PvE players can get by without WvW for map completion. I really don’t think it would be all that tough for them to make that happen.

After just getting off a 13 week blue streak, my world is finally the color I need it to be to get 100%.
As a mapper, I feel your frustration.
But looking overall, completion limited to just the PvE areas wouldn’t be challenging enough.
If they take out the WvW maps, they’d have to go back to GW1’s Scrape and Drag mapping and add Southsun, dry top, and any and all other added areas over the future just to make it a challenge.

You could do what I did and raid someone’s mobile siege unit.
Someone parked an omega golem in the citadel, and I needed the Briar tower.
So I marched the golem down and single-handedly took it to complete the Blue borderlands. That was fun stuff.
And I managed to return the golem.
Not in the best shape, but still there.

munkiman.3068:

It should go both ways. WvW players should earn an equivalent item for legendary crafting that doesn’t involve PvE (maybe world XP) and the PvE players can get by without WvW for map completion. I really don’t think it would be all that tough for them to make that happen.

No.

Titles and such for sure but there should never be a change in regard to legendary crafting. It’s legendary for a reason, because people went through the hassle to get it. If others can’’t be bothered or find it a hassle to kitten bad.

The problem for me isn’t that ‘oh, it’s so much effort to do WvW’, it’s actually that WvW comping has the same problem as the rest of the game: too much RNG.

Your chances of completing it just really depends on who you are fighting and whether you end up on the right side of the map. If you’re on a weak server, you better hurry after reset before your citadel gets captured. If your server didn’t end up on the right side of the map, tough luck, wait til next week and see.

fireflyry.7023:

munkiman.3068:

It should go both ways. WvW players should earn an equivalent item for legendary crafting that doesn’t involve PvE (maybe world XP) and the PvE players can get by without WvW for map completion. I really don’t think it would be all that tough for them to make that happen.

No.

Titles and such for sure but there should never be a change in regard to legendary crafting. It’s legendary for a reason, because people went through the hassle to get it. If others can’’t be bothered or find it a hassle to kitten bad.

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

So wait…. People want World Completion without exploring the whole world?
(I still say PvP should be included but I can see why they’ve excluded it too…)
People want a “Legendary” weapon to become even less legendary by further decreasing the requirements to make one? It already requires nothing but a pathetic timesink instead of mastering game/profession mechanics and skills.

Well, since we’re in the discussion of decreasing requirements to attain a “Legendary” weapon, I vote that we should receive one Legendary of our choice upon completion of every Daily Achievement.

The normal requirements in place are boring and do not cater to my every whim. “Having to do so just is not fun. I play the game to have fun, not because I want a second job for which I do not get paid. I know there are many other players that feel the same way I do.”

munkiman.3068:

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

If you don’t care why even post? Then you go on to state map completion isn’t a big deal and one can just buy it. So that totally negates the issue at hand? Seriously? Why even bother posting on the topic if you care so little and choose to be so flippant.

Rabbitstew.2756:

So wait…. People want World Completion without exploring the whole world?
(I still say PvP should be included but I can see why they’ve excluded it too…)
People want a “Legendary” weapon to become even less legendary by further decreasing the requirements to make one? It already requires nothing but a pathetic timesink instead of mastering game/profession mechanics and skills.

Well, since we’re in the discussion of decreasing requirements to attain a “Legendary” weapon, I vote that we should receive one Legendary of our choice upon completion of every Daily Achievement.

The normal requirements in place are boring and do not cater to my every whim. “Having to do so just is not fun. I play the game to have fun, not because I want a second job for which I do not get paid. I know there are many other players that feel the same way I do.”

qft.

Rabbitstew.2756:

So wait…. People want World Completion without exploring the whole world?
(I still say PvP should be included but I can see why they’ve excluded it too…)
People want a “Legendary” weapon to become even less legendary by further decreasing the requirements to make one? It already requires nothing but a pathetic timesink instead of mastering game/profession mechanics and skills.

Well, since we’re in the discussion of decreasing requirements to attain a “Legendary” weapon, I vote that we should receive one Legendary of our choice upon completion of every Daily Achievement.

The normal requirements in place are boring and do not cater to my every whim. “Having to do so just is not fun. I play the game to have fun, not because I want a second job for which I do not get paid. I know there are many other players that feel the same way I do.”

I’m not really sure if the Mists can be counted as the ‘world’, it’s more a part of the multiverse.

Just watch an old’ish video about it from wooden potatos interesting listen.

fireflyry.7023:

It doesn’t directly or individually effect me. I already have it. That does not equate to me agreeing to said reward being cheapened and yes…that bothers me as it effects the game as a whole, outside either your or my opinion or your or my game experience. It’s an MMO, such things have larger relevance…stop attempting to personalize it.

It’s a big fluffy kitten. Once you start retro-actively changing the reward structure in an MMO it effects the whole game and kittens on the very foundations of why most play such games…time investment for reward.

Cheapen that and most cry wolf, for valid reasons.

You just admitted that it bothers you, so I don’t know why you’re saying it doesn’t affect you…

Anyway what exactly is this “larger relevance” that it would have? What, specifically, would be affected?

Saying it would “kitten on the foundation of why most play such games” sounds incredibly personal; like you and others would be bothered by the idea of someone getting the same reward for less work.

Which is barely an argument, if that’s what you’re saying. You’re more or less saying, “It shouldn’t be done because some people would be mad.”

It seems a large amount of people save the wvw zones for last, which surprises me, because it is an exceedingly short-sighted decision. When I tell people this, their response is generally “meh, I’ll get to it eventually”. These people then come and whine on the forums when they can’t get the borderlands in one week.

If you are working on map completion on a character, check wvw EVERY WEEK. Get everything you can in every BL when you check, because next week you will likely be a different color and no longer be able to access those things, instead gaining access to other things. It’s a good idea to check every day, as the BL keeps are fairly transient. Don’t wait until the end of your map completion efforts, do this concurrently with working on tyria.

Alternatively, if your server has a WvW teamspeak, mumble, or vent, check that on thursday night or friday morning to see if there’s a karma train in one of the BL’s that night- those typically cycle through every keep and tower (aka everything you have to own to get the POI)

and believe me, I have the biggest reason to be annoyed by this- back when I was building the predator, I was on SOR in t1 pre-BG, during JQ’s seemingly unending reign. Though I had full coverage of the BL’s from WvW with my guild, my guild rarely went to EB, leaving me short by one vista in the green keep- and since back then wvw colors were based on rank, JQ would not only never lose that keep, they’d be green as long as they kept winning- again, forever. So I payed the gem prices to transfer to HoD and back to get that keep, only to see JQ collapse the next week, losing the keep and bumping us to green the week after.

aerial.7021:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC2SaX45eV4

Just watch an old’ish video about it from wooden potatos interesting listen.

Interesting video. He makes some good points.

aerial.7021:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC2SaX45eV4

Just watch an old’ish video about it from wooden potatos interesting listen.

Yes that is a very fair analysis from him and I continue to watch him answer the question of the best way for getting precursor I was a little surprised that he got all his precursors from the TP!

This leads me to think that the acquisition of legendary in the game has a lot to do with either buying gems (for gold to buy precursors or server transfers), OR RNG (waiting for that garrison to flip colors in WvW so you can map complete or waiting for MF to drop that precursor that you need). It is like “yay awesome now I deserve that legendary because the garrison suddenly flipped or yay awesome now I deserve that legendary because of my dumb luck at the MF!” Both cases don’t feel all that “legendary” at all.

“Because I had to do it the hard way” isn’t a reason to refuse a change in gameplay that’s beneficial or better, sorry. I completed Personal Story twice before nerfs, the new system, and new rewards were added. Do you see me protesting constantly because I did it “hard mode”?

I’ve done map completion once out of the twenty toons I have. Once. Between the constant costs of repairing broken armor (yes, I know that was eliminated in future patches), the frustration of some jerk killing me two feet from a POI when I was naked and unarmed and KNEELING in an attempt to convey that I was just MCing, camping for hours and hours and hours waiting for a camp to turn my server’s color for more than a minute, and just the general BS from my own server for being there not to help fight but to do MC – I swore I’d NEVER do it again. It wasn’t worth it, it’s not like a Legendary just falls in your hands if you do MC. No, you still have all the crafting and dungeoning and other things to do first not to mention the luck of either finding a precursor or grinding enough gold to buy one. NO idea where this “easy mode” crap is coming from. Removing WvW completion isn’t putting a dent in the crafting of a Legendary or making it super easy at all.

It’s frustrating, boring, and forced to have to toddle into WvW for MC. It would be great to have it split, I’d be happy with just PVE completion myself.

DarkSpirit.7046:

aerial.7021:

Just watch an old’ish video about it from wooden potatos interesting listen.

Yes that is a very fair analysis from him and I continue to watch him answer the question of the best way for getting precursor I was a little surprised that he got all his precursors from the TP!

This leads me to think that the acquisition of legendary in the game has a lot to do with either buying gems (for gold to buy precursors or server transfers), OR RNG (waiting for that garrison to flip colors in WvW so you can map complete or waiting for MF to drop that precursor that you need). It is like “yay awesome now I deserve that legendary because the garrison suddenly flipped or yay awesome now I deserve that legendary because of my dumb luck at the MF!” Both cases don’t feel all that “legendary” at all.

Yes he articulated my point of view much better than I could.

I’m not even in the market for any legendary, or anything else that might be acquested by the finalization of map completion, but for the exception of map completion is now done for this character, because I’m by no means ready for such a thing should I even be able to build one I wouldn’t as I’ve only just figured out how to craft, my problem now is what to craft with all these stats, as I’ve no idea what is good or bad.

Aerlen.5326:

It’s frustrating, boring, and forced to have to toddle into WvW for MC. It would be great to have it split, I’d be happy with just PVE completion myself.

It would appear they didn’t learn one valuable lesson from Guild Wars 1, do not mix PvE with PvP in any way that will make one or the other a boat anchor to either one, oddly over time they made efforts with Guild Wars 1 to peal the 2 of them apart, when became abundantly clear that it just wasn’t going to work out. (favor of the gods anyone? anyone remember that little chestnut.) PvP was a choice with Guild Wars 1.

Kneeling!? I’ve a similar story I was naked and dead on the ground, some of my servers team found me laying there, “looks like a kitten victim!” (can’t even begin to explain how bad that looks for a game, esp. female characters I’m not one but I do play one) one of them said as they attempted to an successfully revived my corps, “yeah, I was hoping if I ran around this way people wouldn’t see me as a threat and leave me to my map completion.”

We should promote or WvW should promote that unless you can be seen actively to engage in offensive map activity that would disrupt there war effort then people should let them be, there not coursing any harm, in fact we’re watching which is a positive.

I’m an advocate of a semi-spectator mode for WvW, that is my half way line the sand.

I think Map Completion is a great way to show players all the content there is to find in the game. So I would not be for removing these things from the WvW areas.

Yet! When I did my map completion on my PvE character I noticed that the locations of most noticeably the PoI’s where nothing more than ‘a pain’. Placing them inside towers and keeps makes them incredible hard to complete… it’s not so much the hardship in having to go to WvW and avoid players from other teams, it’s getting to the location and being unable to complete the PoI or Vista due to a door/wall being in your way. And thus having to wait until your team takes said tower/keep.

The PoI’s should have been placed right ‘on’ the doors, Vista’s should have been placed outside of towers/keeps. This would still guide players into WvW, would still provide a hard to complete part of the completion (being able to sneak everywhere), yet, at least make it possible to get these locations without having to rely on your side taking said tower or keep.

Arghore.8340:

I think Map Completion is a great way to show players all the content there is to find in the game. So I would not be for removing these things from the WvW areas.

Yet! When I did my map completion on my PvE character I noticed that the locations of most noticeably the PoI’s where nothing more than ‘a pain’. Placing them inside towers and keeps makes them incredible hard to complete… it’s not so much the hardship in having to go to WvW and avoid players from other teams, it’s getting to the location and being unable to complete the PoI or Vista due to a door/wall being in your way. And thus having to wait until your team takes said tower/keep.

The PoI’s should have been placed right ‘on’ the doors, Vista’s should have been placed outside of towers/keeps. This would still guide players into WvW, would still provide a hard to complete part of the completion (being able to sneak everywhere), yet, at least make it possible to get these locations without having to rely on your side taking said tower or keep.

Well, the point really is to make you play the content. So putting the POIs at doors kinda defeats the purpose, just as it would if all the POIs in PvE would’ve been placed conveniently in the middle of LA.

Besides, you don’t need all that many people to cap a tower, even less to breach the gate. Just take a guildie or two and go get them POI.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, the point really is to make you play the content. So putting the POIs at doors kinda defeats the purpose, just as it would if all the POIs in PvE would’ve been placed conveniently in the middle of LA.

Besides, you don’t need all that many people to cap a tower, even less to breach the gate. Just take a guildie or two and go get them POI.

There is hardly a PoI or a Vista where you ‘have to’ complete or participate in any form or content in the PvE world. As long as you are a good sneak/run through player you can get to a PoI, sure Vista’s generally need a bit of jumping, but besides some creature standing around there is generally hardly any fighting involved.

And as far as ‘ease of capture’ of locations needed for map completions, I take it you haven’t been in WvW much. While you can technically use a couple of weeks for colours to change and get our colour’s side, taking SMC isn’t something you can just ‘do’ with a couple of friends.