Guild Wars 2

Arghore.8340:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, the point really is to make you play the content. So putting the POIs at doors kinda defeats the purpose, just as it would if all the POIs in PvE would’ve been placed conveniently in the middle of LA.

Besides, you don’t need all that many people to cap a tower, even less to breach the gate. Just take a guildie or two and go get them POI.

There is hardly a PoI or a Vista where you ‘have to’ complete or participate in any form or content in the PvE world. As long as you are a good sneak/run through player you can get to a PoI, sure Vista’s generally need a bit of jumping, but besides some creature standing around there is generally hardly any fighting involved.

And as far as ‘ease of capture’ of locations needed for map completions, I take it you haven’t been in WvW much. While you can technically use a couple of weeks for colours to change and get our colour’s side, taking SMC isn’t something you can just ‘do’ with a couple of friends.

Then again, SMC is a juicy target your team will (attempt to) visit frequently. To get a POI in a tower, well, while you can solo a gate, it’s easier if you have 1-2 guildies with you.

As for PvE, I doubt too many people would be able to just create a new character and go cap the POIs before doing anything else. So why should they be able to do that in WvW? I dare say the average player takes weeks or even months before being able to venture to the areas where the last POIs in PvE are.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, the point really is to make you play the content. So putting the POIs at doors kinda defeats the purpose, just as it would if all the POIs in PvE would’ve been placed conveniently in the middle of LA.

Besides, you don’t need all that many people to cap a tower, even less to breach the gate. Just take a guildie or two and go get them POI.

Potatoes made an interesting point concerning this in his video: He was talking about the intention to get people to play the content and one of the things he said was (I’m paraphrasing), “How many people are actually going to decide that WvW is enjoyable content and start doing it, due to the need to map complete there? Probably not many.”

He was further suggesting that small groups get a bit more capability for having an affect, instead of people having to rely on huge zergs.

It’s quite the fair point that if your server is poorly represented in WvW, you’re going to be distinctly worse off when it comes to, “Just playing WvW to get your map completion.” And server representation in WvW is not something you have a lot of control over if you’re one guy (or even a small group of people) against massive zergs.

Labjax.2465:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, the point really is to make you play the content. So putting the POIs at doors kinda defeats the purpose, just as it would if all the POIs in PvE would’ve been placed conveniently in the middle of LA.

Besides, you don’t need all that many people to cap a tower, even less to breach the gate. Just take a guildie or two and go get them POI.

Potatoes made an interesting point concerning this in his video: He was talking about the intention to get people to play the content and one of the things he said was (I’m paraphrasing), “How many people are actually going to decide that WvW is enjoyable content and start doing it, due to the need to map complete there? Probably not many.”

He was further suggesting that small groups get a bit more capability for having an affect, instead of people having to rely on huge zergs.

It’s quite the fair point that if your server is poorly represented in WvW, you’re going to be distinctly worse off when it comes to, “Just playing WvW to get your map completion.” And server representation in WvW is not something you have a lot of control over if you’re one guy (or even a small group of people) against massive zergs.

While not everyone is not going to fall in love with WvW, the point is to ensure you give it a honest try before you declare you don’t like it. Not to mention that ultimately, if you don’t want to complete the requirements for a PvX title, you should probably find some content you do enjoy doing instead and complete the titles associated with that.

As for one person versus a zerg, I know there are a good many fairly inactive servers. They don’t usually get matched against the most active servers, tbh, unless they’re terribly unlucky, they’re mostly matched against equally inactive servers.

Besides, it’s not like your team has to capture anything for you to get that POI. All that is required is for someone to take down those doors for you. Doesn’t have to be you, doesn’t have to be your team. The less you rely on teamwork tho, the more cunning you need to accomplish your goal.

Fred Fargone.3127:

While not everyone is not going to fall in love with WvW, the point is to ensure you give it a honest try before you declare you don’t like it. Not to mention that ultimately, if you don’t want to complete the requirements for a PvX title, you should probably find some content you do enjoy doing instead and complete the titles associated with that.

Well clearly blocking vistas / pois behind locked doors isn’t doing WvW any favors either, maybe the inactive servers are an indication of those that just for intent and purpose erased the button WvW along time ago, but is there any indication of such servers that are inactive ?

Fred Fargone.3127:

While not everyone is not going to fall in love with WvW, the point is to ensure you give it a honest try before you declare you don’t like it. Not to mention that ultimately, if you don’t want to complete the requirements for a PvX title, you should probably find some content you do enjoy doing instead and complete the titles associated with that.

As for one person versus a zerg, I know there are a good many fairly inactive servers. They don’t usually get matched against the most active servers, tbh, unless they’re terribly unlucky, they’re mostly matched against equally inactive servers.

Besides, it’s not like your team has to capture anything for you to get that POI. All that is required is for someone to take down those doors for you. Doesn’t have to be you, doesn’t have to be your team. The less you rely on teamwork tho, the more cunning you need to accomplish your goal.

Yeah, but the question is, are those circumstances really showing the best side of WvW? (e.g. are the circumstances going to make it an appealing game type?)

I grew to enjoy certain concepts from EotM because I went in there to level and get karma a bunch of times. I never felt like EotM was the only way to get karma or to level, so my attitude was an open-minded one to getting fun out of it. Had I felt funneled into going in there, my attitude may have been different.

The very first time I went into a traditional WvW map was to see how good it was for leveling, so again, I was pretty open to what it provided. It turned out it wasn’t the fastest of leveling for my preference, but I had some fun moments (I hit it at a time when a commander/zerg was running around).

I might instead be kind of resentful toward the game type if my first experience was trying to complete a map and getting gated/killed.

One of the issues with map completion as a motivator is that people who have a poorly represented server may just grow to resent WvW, instead of seeing its potential for fun. I think there are better ways to get people to try WvW – ways that may sell the game type better in the process.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Then again, SMC is a juicy target your team will (attempt to) visit frequently. To get a POI in a tower, well, while you can solo a gate, it’s easier if you have 1-2 guildies with you.

As for PvE, I doubt too many people would be able to just create a new character and go cap the POIs before doing anything else. So why should they be able to do that in WvW? I dare say the average player takes weeks or even months before being able to venture to the areas where the last POIs in PvE are.

1. You realy do not play WvW right?

2. Do you even play GW? You can obviously just make a character and run everywhere to get the PoI’s and Vistas. There is not one thing that would prevent you from doing so, except for foes around, which may make it hard, but not impossible

Fred Fargone.3127:

While not everyone is not going to fall in love with WvW, the point is to ensure you give it a honest try before you declare you don’t like it. Not to mention that ultimately, if you don’t want to complete the requirements for a PvX title, you should probably find some content you do enjoy doing instead and complete the titles associated with that.

As for one person versus a zerg, I know there are a good many fairly inactive servers. They don’t usually get matched against the most active servers, tbh, unless they’re terribly unlucky, they’re mostly matched against equally inactive servers.

Besides, it’s not like your team has to capture anything for you to get that POI. All that is required is for someone to take down those doors for you. Doesn’t have to be you, doesn’t have to be your team. The less you rely on teamwork tho, the more cunning you need to accomplish your goal.

1. Unless you have a quote from an Dev. on the placement of PoI and Vista’s, that is just your assumption or opinion. And 100% map completion is needed to create Legendary weapons, it’s not just about a tittle.

2. You really do not even play WvW right? Did you get a 100% completion yourself?

3. Cunning doesn’t get you through a door or wall, especially not on your own. Even on a low population server keeping track of what happens is a way to keep your PPT up. Response times are all that matters, and if you are a PvE player you will have no points for Rams or Any other Seige, you might know how to make superior siege, but that is doubt full, nor would you be able to carry enough supplies, even with a claim you will have to run 3x up and down to run 40supplies, kill all the guards (likely 2x if not more), then bring down the door without any structural weakening, you would be putting swords on the structure, which would bring a response force to check up soon enough, even if its just 2 people you are screwed.

0. Aka. there is no way to do this on your own, even with a small team it will be hard, unless these people play WvW more often and know what to do. As I said earlier, the only way to get this is using reset nights and colour changes week after week to get your own sides. And hope SMC gets taken by your side when you are actually around. Now if this is your first ‘experience’ with WvW, how big are the chances you will actually return there to ‘try it out’ to see if it’s fun content.

The PoI and Vista’s should be in WvW to show new and PvE players around, offer a sense of danger and thrill to complete said content (because these players will run into fights getting them all). It should offer the least amount of frustration (to the level of a hard Vista) so that players aren’t discouraged to come back for the actual content. At least from my point of view.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. World completion should have been divided.

You should have had Tyria completion as one achievement, mists completion as another achievement and if you get the both, you get an achievement called Master Mapper or Grand Master Cartographer (as in guild wars 1) or something else. I’d still make the gifts of the explorer available only to those who get the comboed title though. But I’d give different rewards for people who got the other two.

Haha vayne. You finally don’t like something of the game. Something I like. Sorry but I gigle after this, after all your ‘the new newb area updates are great’ posts, it’s time you are put into your place.

Wvw isn’t all that hard to get all 3 sides. The only requirement there is, is to study the area’s or play wvw enough to know how it works. If you just pve, and enter wvw on random times you aren’t gonna get map completion. But hey you are making a LEGENDARY with it. It should at least be a bit legendary not? I got 100% wvw completion on 5 chars, (3 others have almost completion, if i’d push them, they also have it. If you don’t know how to do it, ask help for it. But please don’t cry. It’s like saying certain content is to hard. If anet is gonna dumb down every part of the game there’s nothing gonna be left. So Keep it as it is, please Anet.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. World completion should have been divided.

You should have had Tyria completion as one achievement, mists completion as another achievement and if you get the both, you get an achievement called Master Mapper or Grand Master Cartographer (as in guild wars 1) or something else. I’d still make the gifts of the explorer available only to those who get the comboed title though. But I’d give different rewards for people who got the other two.

Haha vayne. You finally don’t like something of the game. Something I like. Sorry but I gigle after this, after all your ‘the new newb area updates are great’ posts, it’s time you are put into your place.

Wvw isn’t all that hard to get all 3 sides. The only requirement there is, is to study the area’s or play wvw enough to know how it works. If you just pve, and enter wvw on random times you aren’t gonna get map completion. But hey you are making a LEGENDARY with it. It should at least be a bit legendary not? I got 100% wvw completion on 5 chars, (3 others have almost completion, if i’d push them, they also have it. If you don’t know how to do it, ask help for it. But please don’t cry. It’s like saying certain content is to hard. If anet is gonna dumb down every part of the game there’s nothing gonna be left. So Keep it as it is, please Anet.

Just so you can personally feel like you’ve obtained something?

I hate the PvP in this game, which includes WvW.

However, to get the full achievement, I am perfectly willing to grit my teeth and get ‘er dun.
-everyone else had to
-you’re not exploring the whole world unless you explore the whole world

*—jumping puzzles should be added to map completion requirement as well.

Spiderbite.8049:

I hate the PvP in this game, which includes WvW.

However, to get the full achievement, I am perfectly willing to grit my teeth and get ‘er dun.
-everyone else had to
-you’re not exploring the whole world unless you explore the whole world

*—jumping puzzles should be added to map completion requirement as well.

Well if you want to be technical about it, WvW is not a part of the world of Tyria, it is in the Mist.

I think that if map completion is meant to serve, in part, as a form of introduction to WvW some changes might be in order. As it stands now the most common reaction, that I see, to map completion in WvW from PvEers is frustration.

Frustration is not a good way to sell the game mode.

I think that WvW should remain part of map completion but that the POI, vistas, etc should be more accessible. Place them so that players need to move around the map. SPend some time there, likely approach game mode objectives, etc. Let these players see a big fight, maybe they will choose to jump in. Requiring that people spend weeks waiting to progress a goal, held back regardless of their efforts, seems like a poor way to encourage them to enjoy that game mode.

What I would like to see happen to map completion is:

• Separate WvW from “World Completion” (the actual title, it isn’t ‘map completion’ but world completion – which doesn’t make sense seeing how WvW isn’t part of ‘the world’), giving it its own achievement and rewards, adding the PvP hub, Heart of the Mists, and Edge of the Mists into it (I don’t recall if PoI in EotM are automatically unlocked, but if they are then they shouldn’t be with this change – furthermore, adding vistas and skill challenges to Edge of the Mists to make it more worthwhile to complete).
• Add Dry Top and Southsun Cove to World Completion; add a series of skill challenges and vistas to Southsun Cove to make it more challenging (perhaps new Points of Interests too), with a reward being a reduced equivilant of standard map completion (as they’re smaller than normal zones) – given their level, perhaps 1 exotic, 20 Karka Shells/Geodes, and 1 Transmutation Charge (plus standard exp).
• Make Claw Island an open zone that becomes accessible after Retribution, the PoI and areas having to be discovered as they are elsewhere (old characters who’ve discovered them would be grandfathered in). Add in a couple vistas and skill challenges and a single waypoint to expand its completion. Reward for completing this would be city-level due to minimal danger in the zone.
• Make Labyrinthine Cliffs permanent, altered for a non-Zephyrite season, and add to World Completion – add a few PoI, vistas, and skill challenges to expand it a bit; it’d give city rewards due to immensely small size and lack of danger (better than Chantry with its one PoI for exp-only reward). Alternatively, creating some permanent events involving locals could merit a small raise in stakes, perhaps, to just crafting materials + transmutation charge + exp?

I feel that such a change would allow WvW’ers to have their own completable mapping achievement, while PvE’ers don’t become “forced” into WvW, regardless of how easy one can argue the WvW mapping is, but don’t have an easier time at World Completion than they would with simply cutting out WvW from mapping.

And hell, I’d probably add uncovering areas to map completion too, just so that people have to uncover the whole world.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What I would like to see happen to map completion is:

• Separate WvW from “World Completion” (the actual title, it isn’t ‘map completion’ but world completion – which doesn’t make sense seeing how WvW isn’t part of ‘the world’), giving it its own achievement and rewards, adding the PvP hub, Heart of the Mists, and Edge of the Mists into it (I don’t recall if PoI in EotM are automatically unlocked, but if they are then they shouldn’t be with this change – furthermore, adding vistas and skill challenges to Edge of the Mists to make it more worthwhile to complete).
• Add Dry Top and Southsun Cove to World Completion; add a series of skill challenges and vistas to Southsun Cove to make it more challenging (perhaps new Points of Interests too), with a reward being a reduced equivilant of standard map completion (as they’re smaller than normal zones) – given their level, perhaps 1 exotic, 20 Karka Shells/Geodes, and 1 Transmutation Charge (plus standard exp).
• Make Claw Island an open zone that becomes accessible after Retribution, the PoI and areas having to be discovered as they are elsewhere (old characters who’ve discovered them would be grandfathered in). Add in a couple vistas and skill challenges and a single waypoint to expand its completion. Reward for completing this would be city-level due to minimal danger in the zone.
• Make Labyrinthine Cliffs permanent, altered for a non-Zephyrite season, and add to World Completion – add a few PoI, vistas, and skill challenges to expand it a bit; it’d give city rewards due to immensely small size and lack of danger (better than Chantry with its one PoI for exp-only reward). Alternatively, creating some permanent events involving locals could merit a small raise in stakes, perhaps, to just crafting materials + transmutation charge + exp?

I feel that such a change would allow WvW’ers to have their own completable mapping achievement, while PvE’ers don’t become “forced” into WvW, regardless of how easy one can argue the WvW mapping is, but don’t have an easier time at World Completion than they would with simply cutting out WvW from mapping.

And hell, I’d probably add uncovering areas to map completion too, just so that people have to uncover the whole world.

The problem with that suggestion is the Gifts of Exploration.

They are currently the ONLY requirement of the Legendary that requires you to actually venture out of the safe haven of the spawn point in WvW.

If they changed the requirements for the Gift of Battle to require players to actually play WvW, then I would not have an issue with the WvW requirement being removed. But a legendary should mean that the player has experience with all parts of the game that you can take a legendary to. Yes, I hate that the legendaries are on the TP. It cheapens them incredibly. To the point of it has no wow factor in game. Because enough people are in the business of making legendaries and too many players whipped out their credit card and bought one with money. Farming to get gold is a middle ground. It takes a lot to buy one off of the TP so that means tons of hours playing and those who try to do it as quickly as possible do tend to hop from one activity to the next as ANet likes to nerf farms.

Seera.5916:

But a legendary should mean that the player has experience with all parts of the game that you can take a legendary to.

You know, this is one of those concepts that unfortunately looks so great on paper, but can look so terrible in reality. I mean, prime example: I can complete the WvW part by religiously watching the map every day/week. I don’t actually have to participate in the mechanics of the game mode.

Or like you said, I can just buy the legendary off the TP.

After seeing how this game has done things, I think the reality is that trying to make legendary crafting an “all game modes” process actually worsens the experience. Instead of being the rewarding “legendary” quest that it looks like on paper, it’s more just a grind fest with some moments where you have to do game modes that you may not have any interest in.

The problem, I think (forgive any incoherent moments from my tired brain) is that most players enjoy one game mode more than any other. And sometimes they love it to the exclusion of all other game modes. Which means that their way of having fun is sticking mostly to one game mode.

Now you might think this should mean, “Oh, well they don’t get a legendary then. Legendaries are for people who experience the breadth of what the game has to offer.” Except that the concept of a legendary quest meaning breadth of experience may be a bit confused. If you look at a game like Ocarina of Time, where you do the quest to get the Biggoron Sword, you have to go to a lot of different areas in the game to complete the quest… and yet, most of the quest chain is, “Get this item from X spot and take it to Y spot. Sometimes with a time limit.”

Point being that although the areas you need to travel to are varied, the gameplay type, or “mode” is actually very consistent across the quest chain. You feel like you’re doing an epic scavenger hunt of sorts, but you’re never asked to do something that’s particularly startling or new.

I feel like the expectation for the on-paper concept is that it’s similar to the Biggoron Sword quest chain in Ocarina of Time; you go into a lot of different areas to complete the quest. Problem is, different “areas” in an MMO can be like going into a different game within the same game. WvW is GW2 the same as Dungeons or Fractals or Open World, but they all have distinctive gameplay mechanics that make them unique to one another.

So on paper, you have, “Explore various areas of the game to get each component you need for your legendary item.” In practice, in the Ocarina of Time example, this looks like, “Explore various areas of the game, all with the same mechanics, to gather and combine each component.”

In GW2, it’s more like, “Explore various areas of the game, each with distinctive mechanics/gameplay, to gather and combine each component.”

Now granted, perhaps my idea of a legendary hunt is different from others. But that’s how it looks to me – like an awkward meeting of two concepts (numerous areas on the one hand and MMO breadth of gameplay on the other hand) that doesn’t quite operate how you expect it to.

I see the same thing with some of the Collections they added.

fireflyry.7023:

munkiman.3068:

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

If you don’t care why even post? Then you go on to state map completion isn’t a big deal and one can just buy it. So that totally negates the issue at hand? Seriously? Why even bother posting on the topic if you care so little and choose to be so flippant.

I wasn’t saying you can buy map completion… The end result of it however is a legendary, which you can buy, bypassing that task completely. I don’t mind the WvW aspect of map completion, but i can see how people do. I was stating an opinion, like it or not and offered a suggestion for a change. I’m not sure why you’re so defensive to being with, but that’s not the point.

Further more, separating the 2 makes sense from a lore standpoint. As WvW takes place in the mist, which isn’t the “world” of Tyria itself. There are certainly players that just play WvW and don’t want to run around the map of Tyria to earn a legendary. I certainly don’t have a problem with that either.

munkiman.3068:

fireflyry.7023:

munkiman.3068:

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

If you don’t care why even post? Then you go on to state map completion isn’t a big deal and one can just buy it. So that totally negates the issue at hand? Seriously? Why even bother posting on the topic if you care so little and choose to be so flippant.

I wasn’t saying you can buy map completion… The end result of it however is a legendary, which you can buy, bypassing that task completely. I don’t mind the WvW aspect of map completion, but i can see how people do. I was stating an opinion, like it or not and offered a suggestion for a change. I’m not sure why you’re so defensive to being with, but that’s not the point.

Further more, separating the 2 makes sense from a lore standpoint. As WvW takes place in the mist, which isn’t the “world” of Tyria itself. There are certainly players that just play WvW and don’t want to run around the map of Tyria to earn a legendary. I certainly don’t have a problem with that either.

I’m not a lore buff at all but I know the mists aren’t apart of the world, but do we know that? are they on Tyria but behind some impenetrable mist (likely powered by all the dead PvE players attempting map completion by there lifeless corps, so that’s how the dragons woke up its all you PvP players fault! kitten you!).

There are other ways to roll around this map too, have a PvE tutorial for each of the maps with poi, vista, so no need to unlock them in the real PvP world.

aerial.7021:

munkiman.3068:

fireflyry.7023:

munkiman.3068:

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

If you don’t care why even post? Then you go on to state map completion isn’t a big deal and one can just buy it. So that totally negates the issue at hand? Seriously? Why even bother posting on the topic if you care so little and choose to be so flippant.

I wasn’t saying you can buy map completion… The end result of it however is a legendary, which you can buy, bypassing that task completely. I don’t mind the WvW aspect of map completion, but i can see how people do. I was stating an opinion, like it or not and offered a suggestion for a change. I’m not sure why you’re so defensive to being with, but that’s not the point.

Further more, separating the 2 makes sense from a lore standpoint. As WvW takes place in the mist, which isn’t the “world” of Tyria itself. There are certainly players that just play WvW and don’t want to run around the map of Tyria to earn a legendary. I certainly don’t have a problem with that either.

I’m not a lore buff at all but I know the mists aren’t apart of the world, but do we know that? are they on Tyria but behind some impenetrable mist (likely powered by all the dead PvE players attempting map completion by there lifeless corps, so that’s how the dragons woke up its all you PvP players fault! kitten you!).

There are other ways to roll around this map too, have a PvE tutorial for each of the maps with poi, vista, so no need to unlock them in the real PvP world.

The Mists are 100% definitely not on the world. They’re not in the same dimension even. Originally you couldn’t get from Tyria to the mists until one man created a fissure that opened up the passage.

The mists are where all things come from and all things go back to. It’s where the souls of dead adventurers go.

Edit: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Mists

aerial.7021:

munkiman.3068:

fireflyry.7023:

munkiman.3068:

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

If you don’t care why even post? Then you go on to state map completion isn’t a big deal and one can just buy it. So that totally negates the issue at hand? Seriously? Why even bother posting on the topic if you care so little and choose to be so flippant.

I wasn’t saying you can buy map completion… The end result of it however is a legendary, which you can buy, bypassing that task completely. I don’t mind the WvW aspect of map completion, but i can see how people do. I was stating an opinion, like it or not and offered a suggestion for a change. I’m not sure why you’re so defensive to being with, but that’s not the point.

Further more, separating the 2 makes sense from a lore standpoint. As WvW takes place in the mist, which isn’t the “world” of Tyria itself. There are certainly players that just play WvW and don’t want to run around the map of Tyria to earn a legendary. I certainly don’t have a problem with that either.

I’m not a lore buff at all but I know the mists aren’t apart of the world, but do we know that? are they on Tyria but behind some impenetrable mist (likely powered by all the dead PvE players attempting map completion by there lifeless corps, so that’s how the dragons woke up its all you PvP players fault! kitten you!).

There are other ways to roll around this map too, have a PvE tutorial for each of the maps with poi, vista, so no need to unlock them in the real PvP world.

I think the mists are more like the universe. so in that sense, we are saying you need to explore the moon in order to get world completion on the earth.

munkiman.3068:

aerial.7021:

munkiman.3068:

fireflyry.7023:

munkiman.3068:

I personally don’t care if they change it, but it would be nice if WvW exclusive players could get an equivalent reward without trudging through PvE. There really isn’t a big deal to do map completion and it certainly isn’t legendary to just buy it outright.

If you don’t care why even post? Then you go on to state map completion isn’t a big deal and one can just buy it. So that totally negates the issue at hand? Seriously? Why even bother posting on the topic if you care so little and choose to be so flippant.

I wasn’t saying you can buy map completion… The end result of it however is a legendary, which you can buy, bypassing that task completely. I don’t mind the WvW aspect of map completion, but i can see how people do. I was stating an opinion, like it or not and offered a suggestion for a change. I’m not sure why you’re so defensive to being with, but that’s not the point.

Further more, separating the 2 makes sense from a lore standpoint. As WvW takes place in the mist, which isn’t the “world” of Tyria itself. There are certainly players that just play WvW and don’t want to run around the map of Tyria to earn a legendary. I certainly don’t have a problem with that either.

I’m not a lore buff at all but I know the mists aren’t apart of the world, but do we know that? are they on Tyria but behind some impenetrable mist (likely powered by all the dead PvE players attempting map completion by there lifeless corps, so that’s how the dragons woke up its all you PvP players fault! kitten you!).

There are other ways to roll around this map too, have a PvE tutorial for each of the maps with poi, vista, so no need to unlock them in the real PvP world.

I think the mists are more like the universe. so in that sense, we are saying you need to explore the moon in order to get world completion on the earth.

I think I have a slightly better analogy. The moon is after all in the same dimension as Earth. It’s more like saying you have to explore the ethereal or astral plane in order to map the Earth.

Labjax.2465:

Seera.5916:

But a legendary should mean that the player has experience with all parts of the game that you can take a legendary to.

You know, this is one of those concepts that unfortunately looks so great on paper, but can look so terrible in reality. I mean, prime example: I can complete the WvW part by religiously watching the map every day/week. I don’t actually have to participate in the mechanics of the game mode.

Or like you said, I can just buy the legendary off the TP.

After seeing how this game has done things, I think the reality is that trying to make legendary crafting an “all game modes” process actually worsens the experience. Instead of being the rewarding “legendary” quest that it looks like on paper, it’s more just a grind fest with some moments where you have to do game modes that you may not have any interest in.

The problem, I think (forgive any incoherent moments from my tired brain) is that most players enjoy one game mode more than any other. And sometimes they love it to the exclusion of all other game modes. Which means that their way of having fun is sticking mostly to one game mode.

Now you might think this should mean, “Oh, well they don’t get a legendary then. Legendaries are for people who experience the breadth of what the game has to offer.” Except that the concept of a legendary quest meaning breadth of experience may be a bit confused. If you look at a game like Ocarina of Time, where you do the quest to get the Biggoron Sword, you have to go to a lot of different areas in the game to complete the quest… and yet, most of the quest chain is, “Get this item from X spot and take it to Y spot. Sometimes with a time limit.”

Point being that although the areas you need to travel to are varied, the gameplay type, or “mode” is actually very consistent across the quest chain. You feel like you’re doing an epic scavenger hunt of sorts, but you’re never asked to do something that’s particularly startling or new.

I feel like the expectation for the on-paper concept is that it’s similar to the Biggoron Sword quest chain in Ocarina of Time; you go into a lot of different areas to complete the quest. Problem is, different “areas” in an MMO can be like going into a different game within the same game. WvW is GW2 the same as Dungeons or Fractals or Open World, but they all have distinctive gameplay mechanics that make them unique to one another.

So on paper, you have, “Explore various areas of the game to get each component you need for your legendary item.” In practice, in the Ocarina of Time example, this looks like, “Explore various areas of the game, all with the same mechanics, to gather and combine each component.”

In GW2, it’s more like, “Explore various areas of the game, each with distinctive mechanics/gameplay, to gather and combine each component.”

Now granted, perhaps my idea of a legendary hunt is different from others. But that’s how it looks to me – like an awkward meeting of two concepts (numerous areas on the one hand and MMO breadth of gameplay on the other hand) that doesn’t quite operate how you expect it to.

I see the same thing with some of the Collections they added.

Like I said, if they changed the requirements for the Gift of Battle back to where you actually had to play WvW to get it, then I would be fine with removing WvW from map completion.

Yes, I’m fully aware that map completion in WvW does not require participating in WvW as it was designed. I map completed without really doing WvW. And I coincidentally got my Gift of Battle with badges of honor from the achievement chests before they announced they were going to have a rank requirement for it.

And while you can buy it off of the trading post, I did mention that I HATE that players can do that. It completely cheapens them. They aren’t truly legendary. Nothing legendary about opening a wallet to buy gems to convert to gold to buy a legendary off of the TP.

Don’t take it all away… Just make a WvW completion achievement and a PvE completion achievement…

On small low end WvW servers, It takes longer to Complete WvW than it does to complete PvE. Even though WvW is only like what? 5 or 10% of the map completion?

Instead of giving us 2 gifts of exploration for world completion, Give us 1 for PvE completion and 1 for WvW completion. Like that the WvW’ers don’t have to go to PvE, and the PvEers aren’t forced to WvW.

You don’t force people to do PvP for PvE achievements, so why force them to do WvW for PvE achievements?

You guys can defend it all you want, but I’d like you to open your world map right now. Now, can you show me where on the map WvW is? It isn’t there. So why should it count for map completion if it isn’t even on the map?

Resubian.5823:

You guys can defend it all you want, but I’d like you to open your world map right now. Now, can you show me where on the map WvW is? It isn’t there. So why should it count for map completion if it isn’t even on the map?

But if you go to WvW and open the map, it doesn’t show the PvE maps right?
That doesn’t mean they are not there though.
Sorry been over 1 1/2 years since I been to WvW so I don’t recall.

1) There is an achievement/reward for doing a certain thing.
2) I want the achievement/reward, but don’t want to do the thing.
3) Therefore, give it to me.

It was the same thing during the Queen’s Gauntlet event. If you could defeat all the bosses, you got a mini Liadri and the title “The Blazing Light.” But some people were not able to succeed, so they posted threads demanding that they be given the mini and the title just for trying, and did not seem to care a whit about those who put in the effort and earned it normally. I think their token “compromise” was “Just give those people a different title,” completely oblivious to the fact that they would probably just end up wanting that title as well.

You get the title, star, and gift of exploration for completing all maps, including WvW. I had to do it, and so did all the other people walking around with the gold stars. It’s been like this for 2 years, and although it is not a simple matter, it isn’t supposed to be. It’s also partially an incentive to get people to check back into WvW more than once in their lives.

And, finally: it is not mandatory. You don’t need that gold star, you want it. It is exactly like the title and mini for defeating Liadri in the Queen’s Gauntlet. There’s something you want, but you aren’t willing/able to complete the content to earn it. So? Is this locking you out of a story chapter or new zone? Why is it so important that the bar be lowered for you, when so many others have been earning it the legit way for over 2 years?

Resubian.5823:

You guys can defend it all you want, but I’d like you to open your world map right now. Now, can you show me where on the map WvW is? It isn’t there. So why should it count for map completion if it isn’t even on the map?

So, if a zone isn’t included on a certain “map,” it doesn’t exist? I’m pretty sure the Outlands existed in World of Warcraft, but it wasn’t on the default map of Azeroth. Play a few fantasy MMOs, and I think you’ll find there are all kinds of areas to explore that don’t technically fit on the same plane as the so-called “normal” world.

It’s not about any of that…

It’s about participating in a game mode to earn a legendary. I think if they “forced” PvE players to get a certainly level in PvP for one there’d be an even bigger stink. There really is no reason in my mind that a player that focuses on a single game mode should be required to do another mode they don’t enjoy in order to get a legendary. The fact that they included tracks to PvE content in PvP, shows that anet is probably of the same mindset. Now they just need to equalize it across all modes. I already have 2 toons with completion and i’m fine with a change like that.

There really is no reason in my mind that a player that focuses on a single game mode should be to get a legendary as it (in theory) proves you’ve at least some some of all of the game modes except sPvP.

I have more gifts of exploration than I know what to do with and I’m about to get 2 more to add to my pile.

There is nothing wrong with requiring people to explore WvW…you need to get to a certain rank to get your gift of battle (It really should have been lvl 30 imo). So get in there, take your time, get what you can and come back every day during the week til your color of the maps is complete. When your color changes, do it again.

Don’t expect to get an entire map in one go unless your server owns everything.

khani.4786:

There really is no reason in my mind that a player that focuses on a single game mode should be to get a legendary as it (in theory) proves you’ve at least some some of all of the game modes except sPvP.

At the risk of upsetting you too which I apologize, but owning a legendary in no way means you’ve played PvP at all, you can obtain your so called legendary right after you’ve hit 80 (even at level 1, if you don’t mind it taking up an inventory slot for 79 levels.) all it requires is real world cash, or enough gold farmed up by whichever means, no need to WvW at all in fact you never have to click the button, guess what? you can do that as a solo, and you’d never have to talk to a single person to do it either.

Again I apologize for any unintended belittling of your efforts for your own legendary(s) acquisitions, I’m sure your path that gives you a feeling of accomplishment for yourself has made you happy, but to deny others their happiness is just selfish.

The only map that should be removed is eternal battlegrounds, im currently at 99% world completion, and this is the only map left, since the server (maguuma) im on is almost non existance at the EB, (because of the massive amount players on the others servers), i will never complete it, in fact, i ask anyone to prove me wrong INGAME, without transfering servers or changing guilds, actually im so sure, it wont be possible without transfering that i’ll give 10 gold to anyone that proves me wrong and show me how to complete it lol.

Borderlands changes every week, so it shouldnt be a problem completing them.

I honestly done see the problem, you map for the gifts of exploration, you also need badges of honor for a legendary, and before they gave away tons in ap chests, you actually had to earn them in wvw, so mapping in wvw wasnt such a big deal. It might require some patience depending how your server does, but honestly Ive mapped all of wvw, all 4 maps with 10 toons and solo each time, its not that bad, most of the time you dont run into anyone. Sure it would be nice if colors would simply rotate every week instead of staying a color for x number of weeks, that would be a big help to many people. But why remove it completely simply because its a challenge? What else is there in gw that offers any challenge at all, especially when making a legendary??

There is no challenge in eternal battleground with my server current population.
I have completed all bordelands, i just dont think its a matter of challenge in some servers.
Feel free to prove me wrong ingame, if you think im wrong tho

Edit: See attachment LOL.

Let’s be honest. The people complaining on here are truly here for Gift of Exploration for LEGENDARY item crafting with fairly easy WvW completion to get. I’ve been on Eredon Terrace (The worst and consistently the LOWEST ranking NA server in WvW) where it has been difficult to get SM and I got it in 2 days. It wasn’t as terrible as this thread is making it out to be. Since it feels like the devs wanted to include PvE, WvW, let’s add PvP components to make it fair.

WvWers find dungeoneering a PITA and they paid the same as the PvE’rs to craft their legendary. PvPers have it the worst and still trudge through to get their legendary and I’m sure some of them don’t want to do PvE stuff or WvW stuff either and yet you don’t see them complaining.

Legendaries are there for a reason and exploring every Gw2 parts should be a requirement. If not then WvWers and PvPers need to get a way to avoid annoying parts like dungeons too. Heck, WvWers still don’t have the ascended/exotic backpacks that were discussed like a year ago.

I do 75% PvE and 25% WvW and basically 0% PvP and have had no issues with map completion. Yes, it took me slightly a bit more time to get since I was on Eredon Terrace, but you know what, I actually felt like I achieved something when I did it. It wasn’t boringly monotonous of “Let’s google this map and see where all the vistas, hearts, and POI is and follow the arrows they show to achieve this map completion the fastest.” If you want a legendary there should be a challenge besides the totally random RNG precursor requirement. But that’s my 2 cents.

Btw, im not for the legendary, if i ever want one, i’ll just buy it from the TP, i just want the title.

@Phantasmal: Including PvP is fine, and im ok with it, Borderlands is fine, since it rotates every week, you will eventually complete it. However with Eternal Battlegrounds, is NOT the same. If you managed to complete EB then good for you, but i dont see how to do it on my server.

Here’s a tip. I was on the WORST NA server and you know what brought the SM capture over easy? I paid for 3 Omega golems and 2 Superior rams. It cost me 2g thanks to EoTM badges. I announced let’s take SM, I have Omega golems. I rallied over 20 people in Eredon Terrace. We got it in 5 minutes.

If you are on a higher population server it gets taken ALL the time. Go to Mos.millenium to see when things get captured. Check out leaderboards or mos.millenium. Eredon Terrace is DEAD last in wvw rankings and we manage to take SM a number of times, particularly on weekends and on Wednesdays. It isn’t difficult. Be proactive.

Yes it requires some planning. Yes it requires a bit of group work. But you know, what. So does dungeons.

@Drakath the map you are showing isn’t exactly the best showing since Tournaments are on. Yeah, there is a 99.99% you won’t get EB completion this week, but that’s thanks to tournament shuffling match-ups. I’m on one of those EB maps being all one color this week too 85% of the time. When season 3 is over or even next week, your match up will change. If you are on Europe, I don’t know how devoted the wvw population there is. In NA it’s pretty much a dead zone after the weekend unless you’re in T1. It does sound like Europeans take their WvW more hardcore than us North Americans.

@Phantasmal, yes could be the tournament, i’ve been with 99% completion for a while tho, tho i dont live all day on EB, guess time will tell. I have SM if i remember correctly, but the kittenes are the POI and similar closer to the other world bases, they have higher pop and they swarm you quickly.

Seera.5916:

But a legendary should mean that the player has experience with all parts of the game that you can take a legendary to.

So…

What part of the Legendary requires sPvP?
What part of the Legendary requires the Personal Story?
What part of the Legendary requires Southsun Cove or Dry Top?
What part of the Legendary requires doing open world events?

Answer to all: None.

If you’re crafting a legendary rather than buying, you can easily get it by map completion (no events at all), running a single dungeon, and daily farming.

And that’s part of the best part of the legendaries. You can get the materials for them in multiple manners for a good deal of said materials. Only the dungeon tokens and the gifts of exploration are you really forced into a single method. You can get skill points for Bloodstone Shard in numerous ways. You can get T6 mats in numerous ways. You can even get Obsidian Shards and Badges of Honor in numerous ways.

Why should you be forced to WvW for a legendary, if you’re not forced to PvP, do PS, or simply “experience all parts of the game”?

And you know what? Fun fact: you don’t have to WvW to map the WvW maps. I seldom do. I’ve mapped them on almost all of my characters, and for the most part I just look to see what my server has conquered and cap that – then once I’ve capped my borderland and 1/3rd of EB, I wait until the color changes (usually the following Friday; SoR bounces colors a lot now) and rinse repeat. Takes me 3 days over 3 weeks, but I don’t have to join a single WvW battle (intentionally).

So it is entirely possible already to get the legendaries without actual WvW’ing.

khani.4786:

There really is no reason in my mind that a player that focuses on a single game mode should be to get a legendary as it (in theory) proves you’ve at least some some of all of the game modes except sPvP.

I have more gifts of exploration than I know what to do with and I’m about to get 2 more to add to my pile.

There is nothing wrong with requiring people to explore WvW…you need to get to a certain rank to get your gift of battle (It really should have been lvl 30 imo). So get in there, take your time, get what you can and come back every day during the week til your color of the maps is complete. When your color changes, do it again.

Don’t expect to get an entire map in one go unless your server owns everything.

That’s fine and all, but what if your server sucks and/or is always the same color. I’m on Darkhaven and we only changed color like once or twice. Are you going to tell me I have to go pay money to transfer servers just to get a legendary? I do WvW, but I gave up on map completion. I do WvW because it is fun. But I do not want to have to run around and do map completion there, because there is no time for map completing when you have an enemy zerg on your tail.

Phantasmal.5631:

Let’s be honest. The people complaining on here are truly here for Gift of Exploration for LEGENDARY item crafting with fairly easy WvW completion to get. I’ve been on Eredon Terrace (The worst and consistently the LOWEST ranking NA server in WvW) where it has been difficult to get SM and I got it in 2 days.

I don’t believe you. Most people who got it in that time frame use server transfers.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Seera.5916:

But a legendary should mean that the player has experience with all parts of the game that you can take a legendary to.

So…

What part of the Legendary requires sPvP?
What part of the Legendary requires the Personal Story?
What part of the Legendary requires Southsun Cove or Dry Top?
What part of the Legendary requires doing open world events?

Answer to all: None.

If you’re crafting a legendary rather than buying, you can easily get it by map completion (no events at all), running a single dungeon, and daily farming.

And that’s part of the best part of the legendaries. You can get the materials for them in multiple manners for a good deal of said materials. Only the dungeon tokens and the gifts of exploration are you really forced into a single method. You can get skill points for Bloodstone Shard in numerous ways. You can get T6 mats in numerous ways. You can even get Obsidian Shards and Badges of Honor in numerous ways.

Why should you be forced to WvW for a legendary, if you’re not forced to PvP, do PS, or simply “experience all parts of the game”?

And you know what? Fun fact: you don’t have to WvW to map the WvW maps. I seldom do. I’ve mapped them on almost all of my characters, and for the most part I just look to see what my server has conquered and cap that – then once I’ve capped my borderland and 1/3rd of EB, I wait until the color changes (usually the following Friday; SoR bounces colors a lot now) and rinse repeat. Takes me 3 days over 3 weeks, but I don’t have to join a single WvW battle (intentionally).

So it is entirely possible already to get the legendaries without actual WvW’ing.

So you want the legendary to be something that’s easy to obtain? I’m all for making the legendary truly legendary to have. That truly requires all aspects of the game that you’re allowed to take an actual legendary. And if that happens, I likely will not be able to get one. Because I’m the casual who decides they don’t want to spend the time memorizing rotations and keeping up with the meta. I button mash my skills and use the ones that seem to work the best for me and my button mashing rotation. And my main is a squishy elementalist so I don’t have room for a whole lot of errors.

And hey, guess what, I’ve got my Gifts of Exploration and the Gift of Battle and I’m fully aware you don’t have to play WvW at all to get the WvW components. I’m laughably bad at WvW. My badges of honor, which I had been dreading getting, got handed to me in a couple of AP chests. I got them before they changed the requirement to needing to be rank 14 to get the Gift of Battle. But I likely would have bought the liquid WXP and bought my way up to rank 14.

But the map completion part of WvW is currently the only part of WvW you can’t avoid by buying things or getting enough AP.

Phantasmal.5631:

Let’s be honest. The people complaining on here are truly here for Gift of Exploration for LEGENDARY item crafting with fairly easy WvW completion to get.

Try not to lump complaining into a pretty little box, so that you can dismiss it.

I think it’s poor design. If I ever make a legendary (or even if I don’t) will I still go into WvW and complete the maps if it hasn’t been changed? It’s likely that I will.

I can think something is poorly designed and still do it. But when I play past design that I don’t enjoy because there is no other option, it doesn’t exactly endear me to the game more. It just adds another building block to the choice in my mind that asks, “Do I leave?”

When I encounter design that is impressive and enjoyable, it adds a building block to the choice that asks, “Do I stay?”

It’s pretty simple; significant complaints over a long period of time means increased chance that I, as a customer, will leave. And it works the same way in reverse. I’m not saying I matter much as one customer, but I think you’ll find that when you break it down, that’s how it works for most people.

Labjax.2465:

It’s pretty simple; significant complaints over a long period of time means increased chance that I, as a customer, will leave. And it works the same way in reverse. I’m not saying I matter much as one customer, but I think you’ll find that when you break it down, that’s how it works for most people.

That is how it works for me for sure, Guild Wars 2 however is an exception I’ll just flat out not play that content, Guild Wars 1 I was the same way Hall of Heroes “was” connected to favor when your area was holding halls you could go to sorrows furnace or the underworld, else you could not go.

And when it was fixed, off I went to experience Hall of Heroes and had some enjoyable experiences.

I am being honest I’ve no intention ‘yet’ of getting legendary anything, I’m more focused on getting ascended armor, and working out how the game works I exclusively want it for the title and having completed something, the ‘Gift’ will likely sit in my over sized bank vault for months before I even think about using it.

Labjax.2465:

Phantasmal.5631:

Let’s be honest. The people complaining on here are truly here for Gift of Exploration for LEGENDARY item crafting with fairly easy WvW completion to get.

Try not to lump complaining into a pretty little box, so that you can dismiss it.

I think it’s poor design. If I ever make a legendary (or even if I don’t) will I still go into WvW and complete the maps if it hasn’t been changed? It’s likely that I will.

I can think something is poorly designed and still do it. But when I play past design that I don’t enjoy because there is no other option, it doesn’t exactly endear me to the game more. It just adds another building block to the choice in my mind that asks, “Do I leave?”

When I encounter design that is impressive and enjoyable, it adds a building block to the choice that asks, “Do I stay?”

It’s pretty simple; significant complaints over a long period of time means increased chance that I, as a customer, will leave. And it works the same way in reverse. I’m not saying I matter much as one customer, but I think you’ll find that when you break it down, that’s how it works for most people.

So, what is your intent in completing map world completion? Is it for the title, OCD in getting 100% map completion, or legendary, or simply because you can complain about it since you despise pvp altogether. Someone already posted that you don’t even need to kill anyone. Just press B and see if the POI you need got taken. Running dungeons requires more work than pressing B and checking.

On a side note, they really should require a PvP requirement for Legendary crafting. That would make it much more challenging because otherwise, if everything is PvE content 100%, why not just give everyone a legendary? The only hurdle would be RNG crafting a precursor and buying stuff off the TP. There is nothing legendary about that and it is the biggest hurdle to anyone wanting to craft it (precursors).

Precursor RNG annoys me to no end, guess what, I still have to force myself to earn enough gold to make one and RNG is much worse than checking to see if a POI is captured in WvW. RNG is the biggest hurdle to crafting Legendaries. I trudged through dungeons I didn’t want to do and I ended up liking it in the end. Was I forced to? Yes if I wanted a legendary. Was it a bad thing? Honestly, after doing it, no it wasn’t. I actually ended up liking it. It exposed me to something I was originally uncomfortable with and ended up growing to accept/like. Spending a couple of minutes/hours on any game mode is confusing and can be frustrating, but if you only spend minutes/few hours in it, it would be frustrating and confusing.

And to the person who doesn’t believe that I captured SM on ET, that is fine. You can believe whatever you want, but it did happen. Heck you can ask people on ET that SM does indeed get captured from time to time and is NOT an impossible feat like people make it out to be. Get some ingenuity and not lay around waiting for rain to drop on your mouth to quench your thirst. Be proactive and maybe spend some money buying siege to cap something.

Phantasmal.5631:

So, what is your intent in completing map world completion? Is it for the title, OCD in getting 100% map completion, or legendary, or simply because you can complain about it since you despise pvp altogether. Someone already posted that you don’t even need to kill anyone. Just press B and see if the POI you need got taken. Running dungeons requires more work than pressing B and checking.

I don’t see what difference it makes, but I don’t have one particular intent. It’ll be nice to have it done in case I ever do pursue a legendary. It’s a fun, relaxing goal for me to go for that I can do on my own time. It gives a nice title. And uh… I don’t despise PvP. I don’t know where the hell that came from.

As I already said in this thread (and I probably wasn’t the first one to point it out) completing WvW maps doesn’t technically require group play at all; in fact, you can just watch the map every day/week and grab stuff when your team has it. That’s part of what makes it stupid to me. The intention is clearly to get a certain crowd of people into WvW, but it’s questionable whether doing so does anything more than make those people never want to enter WvW to actually play it.

Honestly man, I get what you’re saying about doing something and finding out you like it, but that’s almost never how things work for me. If I do something because I feel I’m forced to and I hate taking the time to do it, I am likely going to have lingering bitterness about feeling forced to do it, even if I enjoy it some in the end.

It’s one thing to have that happen in real life; I mean, it’s life – I have to just get over it. But I don’t play games to be told what to do. If a piece of content isn’t significantly appealing on its own merits, then the content has problems. We don’t blame the consumer for not being interested in buying our products. And it certainly isn’t the consumer’s responsibility to find the good in a terrible product.

I’m speaking generally, mind you. Don’t take it personally to a particular game type. But the bottom line is, no matter what comes out of trying a piece of content, I am always going to resent things that I consider to be bad design and if it reaches a point where the bad consistently outweighs the good, I will eventually be gone. That’s just the way it goes.

Labjax.2465:

fireflyry.7023:

It doesn’t directly or individually effect me. I already have it. That does not equate to me agreeing to said reward being cheapened and yes…that bothers me as it effects the game as a whole, outside either your or my opinion or your or my game experience. It’s an MMO, such things have larger relevance…stop attempting to personalize it.

It’s a big fluffy kitten. Once you start retro-actively changing the reward structure in an MMO it effects the whole game and kittens on the very foundations of why most play such games…time investment for reward.

Cheapen that and most cry wolf, for valid reasons.

You just admitted that it bothers you, so I don’t know why you’re saying it doesn’t affect you…

Anyway what exactly is this “larger relevance” that it would have? What, specifically, would be affected?

Saying it would “kitten on the foundation of why most play such games” sounds incredibly personal; like you and others would be bothered by the idea of someone getting the same reward for less work.

Which is barely an argument, if that’s what you’re saying. You’re more or less saying, “It shouldn’t be done because some people would be mad.”

Read more.

As an individual I could not care less, commenting on how that effects the game as a whole is totally different. Hardly rocket science or merit for rebuttal.

Outside that games like this have core foundations and mechanics based on time investment for reward which have been in place since two cave-men started playing rock/paper/scissors…or Ultima. Basic economics either via coin or time, both valid currency in any MMO, are a core foundation of any online game.If you retro-actively alter or cheapen a reward players have invested timesink towards you are really kittening on your player base.

Mapping used to be a chore/challenge/effort/timesink. Now you just follow the arrow in easymode akin to how this whole game is going, and people want a legendary component for it.

Get real, or do you want this game to die faster?

Phantasmal.5631:

And to the person who doesn’t believe that I captured SM on ET, that is fine. You can believe whatever you want, but it did happen. Heck you can ask people on ET that SM does indeed get captured from time to time and is NOT an impossible feat like people make it out to be.

Sure SM does get captured from time to time, just not by my server. Unless you have a concrete plan on how just 1 player, with only 2 hours to play each day due to real life responsibilities, can change his entire server to be a WvW god, I suggest you stop giving such advice.

aerial.7021:

khani.4786:

There really is no reason in my mind that a player that focuses on a single game mode should be to get a legendary as it (in theory) proves you’ve at least some some of all of the game modes except sPvP.

At the risk of upsetting you too which I apologize, but owning a legendary in no way means you’ve played PvP at all, you can obtain your so called legendary right after you’ve hit 80 (even at level 1, if you don’t mind it taking up an inventory slot for 79 levels.) all it requires is real world cash, or enough gold farmed up by whichever means, no need to WvW at all in fact you never have to click the button, guess what? you can do that as a solo, and you’d never have to talk to a single person to do it either.

Again I apologize for any unintended belittling of your efforts for your own legendary(s) acquisitions, I’m sure your path that gives you a feeling of accomplishment for yourself has made you happy, but to deny others their happiness is just selfish.

I completely agree with you, anyone with a credit card and the will to spend that much money can have a legendary day 1 when they log into the game….but someone out there made that legendary and at least part of that legendary is an account bound set of gifts that the original creator had to put in at least some effort into creating. It’s not how I got mine because I worked for mine. The fact they can be sold on the trading post, I feel, cheapens the end result. (but I still love mine).

Back on the original topic, map completion takes time and even if you’re on a server that’s lower down and facing opposition, there is always a time when your server can get a group together to go take things that people need. Get a group together, buy some rams and go take it. “prime time” is probably not the best time to do it, but eventually you’ll be able to get everything.

I now have all 13 of my characters fully mapped in WvW thanks to the easy week we’re having. I almost feel sorry for Mags and FA……but then I don’t because I got killed plenty while trying to map (and killed plenty myself).

khani.4786:

I now have all 13 of my characters fully mapped in WvW thanks to the easy week we’re having. I almost feel sorry for Mags and FA……but then I don’t because I got killed plenty while trying to map (and killed plenty myself).

That’s the problem with this thread. People belonging to active WvW servers are here giving advice on how easy it has to be for everybody. When they are not realizing that there are servers out there with low population that are not active in WvW plus there are players out there belonging to these servers, who do not have that much time to play due to real life responsibilities to begin with.

DarkSpirit.7046:

khani.4786:

I now have all 13 of my characters fully mapped in WvW thanks to the easy week we’re having. I almost feel sorry for Mags and FA……but then I don’t because I got killed plenty while trying to map (and killed plenty myself).

That’s the problem with this thread. People belonging to active WvW servers are here giving advice on how easy it has to be for everybody. When they are not realizing that there are servers out there with low population that are not active in WvW plus there are players out there belonging to these servers, who do not have that much time to play due to real life responsibilities to begin with.

I never said it is or should be easy for everyone. I know that those on lower pop servers are going to have a hard time. But it is still possible to finish map completion even if it’s a couple camps or towers a week. EB will always be the hardest for people to finish regardless of tier (unless you get thrown into a match with servers who can’t compete with your coverage).

Mapping WvW should NOT be easy. 96% of the world is easy, there is only a small portion that must be worked for and done strategically.

This week for TC is only because of the weirdness of the Swiss rotation and I never expected to be able to finish all of my characters’ WvW mapping.

I wasn’t referring to you. But yes, at least PvE map completion is accumulative regardless of the time you play, even when you only have 2 hours/day to play in a low population server. WvW on the other hand, seems to be RNG to players in my circumstances.

fireflyry.7023:

Read more.

As an individual I could not care less, commenting on how that effects the game as a whole is totally different. Hardly rocket science or merit for rebuttal.

Outside that games like this have core foundations and mechanics based on time investment for reward which have been in place since two cave-men started playing rock/paper/scissors…or Ultima. Basic economics either via coin or time, both valid currency in any MMO, are a core foundation of any online game.If you retro-actively alter or cheapen a reward players have invested timesink towards you are really kittening on your player base.

Mapping used to be a chore/challenge/effort/timesink. Now you just follow the arrow in easymode akin to how this whole game is going, and people want a legendary component for it.

Get real, or do you want this game to die faster?

Whatever. I can’t make you admit that it affects you personally. It’s kind of amazing the lengths you’re going to to deny it though.

Anyway, retroactively making rewards somewhat easier happens all the time in MMOs. I mean, have you ever played a raiding MMO? Do you know how often gear sets get updated, making the current gear obsolete? Or a really difficult boss gets nerfed? That stuff is par for the course. I’d like to think that most players have come to understand that them earning a reward before a change is something to be proud of – they can say that they did it the old/harder way. It’s actually a way that veterans can feel more proud of being a veteran.

And really, implying that people would leave in droves (“make this game die faster”) because of the kind of change being proposed is absurd. Yes, the idea has some problems that have actually been outlined clearly in this thread – like the fact that WvW players and PvP players would still have to go into open world to do a crap ton of map completion (putting WvW players at an even worse feeling of being disadvantaged when it comes to the mapping process).

But please drop the chicken-little sky-is-falling nonsense. You can’t even support your argument. It’s just conjecture.

Because it happens “all the time” does not make it right.