Guild Wars 2

Hello,

I just found that at dungeon part of looking for party are always nearly no peeps to play dungeons with. I was trying to find the reason why is that. And finally found info about that huge dungeon nerf thing.

Running dungeons was always my most pleasing activity in GW2, not because of reward, I just like dungeoning in a small organised group in every MMO. More so in GW 2 are dungones nicely diversive because of more routes in each etc. And compared to fractals (except that the fractaIs don have any diversity inside one fractal) always liked that you can choose the one you have mood to play.

I agree, the direct gold gains from dungeon final rewards was really high and I understand that you woudnt have any space to move rewards up at HoT content.

But, please, do the dungeons at least similarly rewarding like the Silverwastes farm is now for example. So the people want to play them too, so we can find the co-players to play them, instead of waiting big time gaps for party to fill up. Please do not only select the easiest route of “solvilng your problems” by nerfing old content everyone loved.

Not by raw gold rewards, do it intelligently, for example by more material rewards, or some specific material rewards. Or If you want people kill all mobs instead of running through some parts of dungeons just give to the common mobs some meaningfull loot please.

First you have taken us the map champions nearly to the last one, only huge world bosses stayed to these days, and now you are taking the dungeons from us, its so sad for me.

If I will be speaking for myself, I really dont like attending at grindy farms like Silverwastes are, that type of gameplay dond giving me any pleasure.
Please left the game, like it always was, giving people freedom in ways they like to play the game. It was once your “watchword”.

Problem was, that people were just farming them for gold.

They were only taking classes, builds (gear type) and players that met their expectations of a superfast, clean run and were skip>permastack>melee speed-running them.

There were a few “everyone welcome” groups, but at least half of them would turn out to be an, often unwanted, tutorial on speedrunning.

New players weren’t getting to have fun, or experience the dungeons as they were originally intended to be experienced and were just being trained-up by people to help speedrun them, in future.

Sad, really.

If people had just played them in an anything goes, everyone welcome kind of way, they probably wouldn’t have felt the need to nerf the rewards.

But, as it was, they were just reducing Anet’s potential income and putting off new players.

The justification given was that the gold reward outweighed the time investment. Yet, in even low level fractals, I believe that I am making comparable (or more, in my opinion) gold in the same time frame in content that is, to my mind, very similar (and in many cases easier).

Seems like it’s more a move to push people away from dungeons (which aren’t well supported going forward, or since launch, by ANet) into Fractals and forthcoming Raids, which ANet is focussing on.

I would be fine with that if ANet had supported Fractals better – and made more of them.

dace.8019:

The justification given was that the gold reward outweighed the time investment.

Well, it probably did, if they were almost exclusively being speedrun farmed.

If they were being played normally, it almost certainly would have been fine.

It’s not really even, mostly, the players’ fault.

It’s due, at least partly, to Anet’s highly questionable design choices.

Such as stacking and meleeing being made the only efficient way to play.

Fact still remains that the players could have chosen to try to keep fun and diversity alive, but they (mostly) didn’t.

They, mostly, decided to milk dungeons for everything they had, in as short a time as possible and reject any players who didn’t want to do it like that.

It was really sad, I had to explain to a brand new guildy last night that his experience with his first dungeon was the same as all the other dungeons, skipping past content and just burning down bosses often with cheesy stacking.

Tigaseye.2047:

Problem was, that people were just farming them for gold.

Of course people farmed it for gold, Anet nerfed every other zone and event to within an inch of its life, they removed so much loot from the game, events where mobs and mobs of enemies would spawn and drop no loot at all, the dungeon gold farmers was 100% Anets own doing, if you remove the rewards from all other areas of the game and leave 1 main source then people will flock to that source,

If Anet had fixed the loot drop problem across the game instead of nerfing it into the floor, then people would have had a reason to move away from the dungeons, but as they got so focused on removing the loot, people had no choice,

And now they have nerfed dungeons, not because they don’t want people doing them, but because they want to try and force people into Raids/Fractals, only from what im hearing Fractals loot has been nerfed 10 fold also,

As great as HoT is, Anet are pushing the game towards buy Gem and Convert to Gold as they are removing every source of loot in the game, and the chests/rewards in the new zones are bad they need buffed, you have to spend an hour in a new zone to get the same reward as an old 15 min dungeon run,

People who review these games are noting this, in the long term this will do more damage to the game, which is truly sad, as they have done a great job with HoT, but rewards have always been Anets downfall, and continue to be.

^ Yes, I know and I think the gold rewards, from playing all aspects of the game, should be slightly higher.

As you can’t just expect people, who have already spent plenty on the game, to use endless amounts of real money indefinitely…

At some point, the game has to provide the player with enough gold to buy everything they need and most things they want.

But, as it was previously, the richest players in the game (by far) were the speedrunners.

They didn’t ever need to spend any real money on gems, because they got so much gold in-game and they were insisting that everyone else played that way.

That was not good for the overall, ongoing, health of the game.

Especially as many of them didn’t want to even tolerate newer players, as they viewed them as a liability, as they were slowing down their ability to earn gold per minute.

This excessive greed (albeit, partly, due to Anet’s own design flaws) gave Anet the perfect excuse to nerf group PVE rewards, for everyone.

Really, what they should have done, is change the game mechanics, so skip>permastack>melee was no longer optimal, but I guess they just thought it was far easier to remove the rewards for everyone?

As I say, I think it’s a shame that it came to this, but not exactly a surprise.

Unrelated but worth noting is that vanquishing worked well in GW1 because to complete the content you actually had to do it all. When ANET designed these dungeons, they were designed in such a way to reward the fastest most efficient runs, which often meant skipping the “trash.”

If trash isn’t trash, you don’t have players skipping content. Seems pretty simple. All that gold that was reduced from dungeons? Why not distribute it among the trash mobs? Or why not reward higher gold for more mobs killed so that endgame dungeon rewards increase with the number of non-champ mobs killed?

These are just examples of course, but the bigger problem is that ANET didn’t see dungeons worth saving. They seemed to think that other areas were more worth developing. So despite all of the solutions we can come up with, the fact that ANET just didn’t seem to like how dungeons turned out isn’t changed.

Javonovich.5280:

Unrelated but worth noting is that vanquishing worked well in GW1 because to complete the content you actually had to do it all. When ANET designed these dungeons, they were designed in such a way to reward the fastest most efficient runs, which often meant skipping the “trash.”

If trash isn’t trash, you don’t have players skipping content. Seems pretty simple. All that gold that was reduced from dungeons? Why not distribute it among the trash mobs? Or why not reward higher gold for more mobs killed so that endgame dungeon rewards increase with the number of non-champ mobs killed?

Yes, I totally agree.

Have you looked at the price of mats lately, especially t6 ones? Most of them are below 20s (down from 40-50s) and even powerful blood is down to 50s and dropping (used to be 60-70s). So you get less gold from dungeons, but if you can buy mats for 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of before its not that big of a nerf. Might take a while for all mats (esp ascended mats) to go down, but they will in time.

Imo the lack of people running dungeons is either everyone being busy with HOT content (more likely) or the dungeon runners are still too kitteny about the “nerf” to realize it wasnt that big of a nerf after all (less likely, but i bet it still happens)

I was hoping for any word from official staff on that topic …. sad, still nothin

Has anyone ever played any game of this type where the player base didn’t home in on the best farming spots and then find ways to speed them up as much as possible? And where those spots then didn’t get nerfed, either by reducing the rewards or by beefing up the mobs (or by changing the terrain a little – whadya mean I can’t push them off the cliff now?)

It’s just how it is. There is always another farming spot to be had. People are people.

Dasenthal.6520:

It was really sad, I had to explain to a brand new guildy last night that his experience with his first dungeon was the same as all the other dungeons, skipping past content and just burning down bosses often with cheesy stacking.

I know, right! We try to do guild dungeon runs where we don’t do cheese mechanics. They take longer, sure, but I find it more enjoyable.

Dunno if you considered that, or if you reluctantly perpetuate the stack and skip to get through it as quickly as humanly possible.