Guild Wars 2

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

I don’t like making a new character, playing it from the perspective of a player who has never played it before and finding myself in blazeridge steppes at level 13, getting one shot by monsters 30 levels higher than me.

I don’t like that some of the biggest reasons for choosing this game over any other have been eliminated.

I like change. When it’s polished, appropriate, and constructive.

This change is destructive and unpolished, and causes much more confusion than it solves.

I’m pretty sure I would have bought this at release no matter what.

Although I wonder what I would have thought of the game if it had started out this way and ended up the way it was.

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

yeah I wouldn’t recommend it right now, it felt like an adventure before, you found/looted your weapons and unlocked the skills that related to those weapons, it was fun and exciting to get a new weapon and didn’t take much time to unlock it either. It was an organic way of learning skills by USING that weapon. Now with little arrows telling me where to go I feel like my sense of exploration is gone a little.. and besides wasn’t that what scouts were for? Maybe the game they set out to make has changed into a game that will appeal the highest amount of people with the lowest amount of patience. Everything doesn’t need to have rewards attached especially leveling… I feel like leveling is something that happens in the background if your game is FUN and engaging, you level as your doing the things you want to do and enjoying it. Has the philosophy of playing for fun been replaced by playing for rewards only? I get that rewards are needed.. and there are plenty already. Updating heart vendors, personal story rewards, or adding more coin rewards in hearts and dynamic events are all good ideas.. but I really don’t need or want to be clicking on my right hand corner of my screen to get rid of the icons anymore then I already do with events and hearts. I want to PLAY the game and enjoy what there is. You want to make things better well add more events and more lore in the game, and more reason to go back and see these places again, more unique items (even new skins that you can get in the game!), but more spam on the screen and less reason to explore on your own is not the way to go about it.. I don’t want to play the map I want to explore the world and I think new players would want the same feeling we got at launch

Theundersigned.4761:

I’m pretty sure I would have bought this at release no matter what.

Although I wonder what I would have thought of the game if it had started out this way and ended up the way it was.

You probably wouldn’t know any better since you’re new to the game. If I were a new player and have played other MMOs, I would probably just think of it as a learning experience. Putting it in perspective compared to other MMOs leveling system, this is nothing.

Vayne.8563:

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

There’s nothing fun or challenging about level gating basic things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over no matter how much you’ve already played. Veterans with level 80s should be able to skip past the pointless gating.

Lostwingman.5034:

Veterans with level 80s should be able to skip past the pointless gating.

If this were implemented, wouldn’t it just make new players feel like they were getting the short end of the stick?

If they had only bought the game sooner their lives would have been so much easier. That seems a little unfair to me.

Unless, of course, the first character to 80 would subsequently remove all time gating from new characters. That doesn’t sound like a bad idea.

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

There’s nothing fun or challenging about level gating basic things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over no matter how much you’ve already played. Veterans with level 80s should be able to skip past the pointless gating.

But there are ways in the game for players to skip past a lot of it. Birthday gifts give a year 20 boots. Other boosts can be attained from PvPing or black lion chests, plus people had a bunch of them from stuff like escape from lion’s arch. Double click a tome and poof a level. Double click a scroll and poof, 20 levels.

Anet probably needs to add more ways for this to happen, and make it so only people have an an 80 can use them, but they’re already in the game.

I approve of these changes as we will eventually have an end to the brain dead and “press 1 to get loot”/“only wear Zerker” players we see plaguing the game. I have enough lv 20 scrolls to bypass most of the tutorial stuff now added to the game for three brand new characters.

I just hope it gets even better for new players and the game teaches them how to dodge properly use conditions/condition removal/healing skills and combo finishers and fields.

As I will be willing to teach them myself if they weren’t so clueless and can’t listen. I’m sure many vets feel the same way I do too.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I approve of these changes as we will eventually have an end to the brain dead and “press 1 to get loot”/“only wear Zerker” players we see plaguing the game. I have enough lv 20 scrolls to bypass most of the tutorial stuff now added to the game for three brand new characters.

I just hope it gets even better for new players and the game teaches them how to dodge properly use conditions/condition removal/healing skills and combo finishers and fields.

As I will be willing to teach them myself if they weren’t so clueless and can’t listen. I’m sure many vets feel the same way I do too.

I don’t approve of these changes because simple logic dictates that we definitely won’t have an end to the brain dead and “press 1 to get loot”/“only wear Zerker” players we see plaguing the game. I’m equally as sure that many vets don’t feel the same way as you do either. Don’t take this the wrong way but, you’re quite naive in your way of thinking. There will always be players that will spam 1 and there will always be players that try to improve themselves. It will always be the responsibility of the player to undertake that challenge. Anet cannot and will not ever be able to teach a player on how to dodge properly or learn other game mechanics if the player does not want to. “Tutorials” can only help so much, as in, it’s helpful for players that are already motivated to improve and learn. It does absolutely nothing to solve the issues that you are bringing up (hence your flawed thinking). If it was possible to do this, many other games would have already found a solution, and I feel like it almost certainly wouldn’t resemble anything like what I see in this feature pack.

With these latest changes, the only thing that is certain is the high risk of alienating a portion of the veteran player base. You don’t need metrics to know that a veteran player who decides to create new characters without using boosts will eventually feel frustration from having to deal with these changes. Using boosts is avoiding the problem entirely and that isn’t something Anet should really be proposing as an alternative. Bearing this in mind, I’m convinced Anet has made a grave misstep and I feel like they really need to revert most of these changes or simply make it an option (of course, without using boosts to skip it). Sometimes, companies make dumb mistakes with good intentions. It happens all the time. I’m thinking this is one of those times.

Theundersigned.4761:

Lostwingman.5034:

Veterans with level 80s should be able to skip past the pointless gating.

If this were implemented, wouldn’t it just make new players feel like they were getting the short end of the stick?

If they had only bought the game sooner their lives would have been so much easier. That seems a little unfair to me.

Unless, of course, the first character to 80 would subsequently remove all time gating from new characters. That doesn’t sound like a bad idea.

No because we’ve already been through all that kitten already, they haven’t. If they were really new players they wouldn’t even know unless someone told them. Please, in excruciating, drawn out, and dull detail (just like the new system), explain how this is in anyway fun for people who have been over this already? I just want to play my kittening characters. I want to explore the classes as I run with my accumulated knowledge of the game. But no, now with this kittened system we have the same experience every. single. time. Want to take your new asura to Wayfarer and level in the mountains for a change of pace/new feeling? TOO BAD kittenLORD YOU GOTTA FOLLOW DAT ARROW.

This sucks and there is no getting around that with any kind of wishy washy bs.

Lostwingman.5034:

No because we’ve already been through all that kitten already, they haven’t. If they were really new players they wouldn’t even know unless someone told them. Please, in excruciating, drawn out, and dull detail (just like the new system), explain how this is in anyway fun for people who have been over this already? I just want to play my kittening characters. I want to explore the classes as I run with my accumulated knowledge of the game. But no, now with this kittened system we have the same experience every. single. time. Want to take your new asura to Wayfarer and level in the mountains for a change of pace/new feeling? TOO BAD kittenLORD YOU GOTTA FOLLOW DAT ARROW.

This sucks and there is no getting around that with any kind of wishy washy bs.

I’m not sure if this is directed at me as I don’t remember ever mentioning how fun the system is, but whatever.

New players do become old players. They’re bound to find out eventually that they were scammed out of an easier leveling experience. And I don’t think we should have to sacrifice them just to give ourselves an easier time…

still complaining about zerker

What’s wrong, don’t like people playing instanced content the way they want? What a self important prick.

“No because we’ve already been through all that kitten already, they haven’t.”
= “What a self important prick.”

A tad hypocritical, huh?

Oh, and you can turn off the arrow. I turned it off just as soon as I logged in. So there’s that.

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The gating, dumbing down, restrictive gameplay wont’t hurt? Whatever happened to horizontal progression and play like you wan’t? And no, vertical progression is no progression.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

You should scroll up and read my previous post on why your kind of thinking is flawed. That said, there are plenty of ways Anet could implement an optional tutorial for motivated vets without making it part of the new player experience. It could even be something as simple as a mini game (sort of like the shooting range contest that doesn’t work in Divinity’s Reach) where the player is tasked to perform certain objectives that would translate well with advanced group work (ie: positioning, blasting fields, dodging, managing cool downs, positives/negatives of certain types of builds, gear, and traits, etc).

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

Please explain how one adapts to “oh lol, now you have to grind to content!”?
I’m really interested who else thinks it’s fun to have to ride a railroad for several hours before you’re allowed to play how you want.

I just want to play how I want, simple, innit?

kitten.

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

Actually getting skills 1-5 is much much faster now.

Stick to the facts pls.

You dont grind for anything any more than before (in fact skills 1-5 are grind free now opposed to before ESPECIALLY skills 4-5)

AFAIK you had to “grind” levels before this change (i have only 12 lvl 80ies and 4 more alts form lvl 10-45, bu yeah, what do i know, right?)

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Still doesn’t have to be a kittened level lock system. Why can’t it be a competency system? They apparently understand that concept since they did it for dodge. I don’t want to have to be railroaded into doing a bunch of slow hearts (always the most boring part of this game) just so I can use weapon skills. It should just put you into competency checks. “Do this to move onto the next part”. People who have trouble with it will have to complete it before they go on and people who have done this kitten a million times can breeze through it and not be impeded. Wow, amazing, 4:30am and I can come up with a better system. This is just lazy implementation. Even if, even if you wanted to go with this system, why the hell is it still railroading older players into playing a bunch of grind content before they actually can play their characters? It makes no sense, unless you realize it was lazy implementation.

Lostwingman.5034:

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

Please explain how one adapts to “oh lol, now you have to grind to content!”?
I’m really interested who else thinks it’s fun to have to ride a railroad for several hours before you’re allowed to play how you want.

I just want to play how I want, simple, innit?

kitten.

Please explain of what “grind” you have to do now that you didnt need to do before? If anything lvl 20 reward is 8 skill points so you dont have to grind 7 skill points (like you had to do before)

Enlighten us all about this “added grind”

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

Actually getting skills 1-5 is much much faster now.

Stick to the facts pls.

You dont grind for anything any more than before (in fact skills 1-5 are grind free now opposed to before ESPECIALLY skills 4-5)

AFAIK you had to “grind” levels before this change (i have only 12 lvl 80ies and 4 more alts form lvl 10-45, bu yeah, what do i know, right?)

Yea, stick to facts. I bet your favorite part of the game is being railroaded into completing hearts before you get to use your character right? Because that’s my favorite part! Boy howdy is that just the most fun!

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

Please explain how one adapts to “oh lol, now you have to grind to content!”?
I’m really interested who else thinks it’s fun to have to ride a railroad for several hours before you’re allowed to play how you want.

I just want to play how I want, simple, innit?

kitten.

Please explain of what “grind” you have to do now that you didnt need to do before? If anything lvl 20 reward is 8 skill points so you dont have to grind 7 skill points (like you had to do before)

Enlighten us all about this “added grind”

Forcing us into specific content before we can play how we want. How is that not an added grind? Oh, it’s you talking. You get to define things. Ok, that’s cool.

Lostwingman.5034:

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

Actually getting skills 1-5 is much much faster now.

Stick to the facts pls.

You dont grind for anything any more than before (in fact skills 1-5 are grind free now opposed to before ESPECIALLY skills 4-5)

AFAIK you had to “grind” levels before this change (i have only 12 lvl 80ies and 4 more alts form lvl 10-45, bu yeah, what do i know, right?)

Yea, stick to facts. I bet your favorite part of the game is being railroaded into completing hearts before you get to use your character right? Because that’s my favorite part! Boy howdy is that just the most fun!

you are upset that the person actually knows what they are talking about and use facts to back it up?

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Still doesn’t have to be a kittened level lock system. Why can’t it be a competency system? They apparently understand that concept since they did it for dodge. I don’t want to have to be railroaded into doing a bunch of slow hearts (always the most boring part of this game) just so I can use weapon skills. It should just put you into competency checks. “Do this to move onto the next part”. People who have trouble with it will have to complete it before they go on and people who have done this kitten a million times can breeze through it and not be impeded. Wow, amazing, 4:30am and I can come up with a better system. This is just lazy implementation. Even if, even if you wanted to go with this system, why the hell is it still railroading older players into playing a bunch of grind content before they actually can play their characters? It makes no sense, unless you realize it was lazy implementation.

If you are so extremly compenent you wont notice any of it anyway.

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Still doesn’t have to be a kittened level lock system. Why can’t it be a competency system? They apparently understand that concept since they did it for dodge. I don’t want to have to be railroaded into doing a bunch of slow hearts (always the most boring part of this game) just so I can use weapon skills. It should just put you into competency checks. “Do this to move onto the next part”. People who have trouble with it will have to complete it before they go on and people who have done this kitten a million times can breeze through it and not be impeded. Wow, amazing, 4:30am and I can come up with a better system. This is just lazy implementation. Even if, even if you wanted to go with this system, why the hell is it still railroading older players into playing a bunch of grind content before they actually can play their characters? It makes no sense, unless you realize it was lazy implementation.

Ah the old lazy implementation argument. Do you realize how much work went into these changes? This was probably more work than anything Anet could have done. They’ve completely altered the first starting zones including hearts, adding tutorial stuff, adding tips, changing rewards. They could have just done a quick tutorial. That would have been lazy.

I don’t get why people call a change lazy that took more work than anyone would have thought they’d put into it in the first place.

The system is only a grind if you choose to see it as such. It’s so fast to level it’s silly.

Lostwingman.5034:

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

Please explain how one adapts to “oh lol, now you have to grind to content!”?
I’m really interested who else thinks it’s fun to have to ride a railroad for several hours before you’re allowed to play how you want.

I just want to play how I want, simple, innit?

kitten.

Please explain of what “grind” you have to do now that you didnt need to do before? If anything lvl 20 reward is 8 skill points so you dont have to grind 7 skill points (like you had to do before)

Enlighten us all about this “added grind”

Forcing us into specific content before we can play how we want. How is that not an added grind? Oh, it’s you talking. You get to define things. Ok, that’s cool.

What “specific” content lol You mean areas appropriate for your character level for noob levels? Really?

What you did before, run frostgorge/orr train on lvl 2?

I definitely wouldn’t recommend the game now. It’s not about being afraid of “change” as some of the lemmings like to think, it’s about changing the game for the worst, dumbing it down, restricting a player’s freedom and putting them on training wheels. What happened to the exploration aspect that ArenaNet wanted people to engage in? That is now GONE.

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

Please explain how one adapts to “oh lol, now you have to grind to content!”?
I’m really interested who else thinks it’s fun to have to ride a railroad for several hours before you’re allowed to play how you want.

I just want to play how I want, simple, innit?

kitten.

Please explain of what “grind” you have to do now that you didnt need to do before? If anything lvl 20 reward is 8 skill points so you dont have to grind 7 skill points (like you had to do before)

Enlighten us all about this “added grind”

Forcing us into specific content before we can play how we want. How is that not an added grind? Oh, it’s you talking. You get to define things. Ok, that’s cool.

What “specific” content lol You mean areas appropriate for your character level for noob levels? Really?

What you did before, run frostgorge/orr train on lvl 2?

Character content genius. You cannot, with a straight face, tell me that the last two feature packs have not added more grind to using character skills, abilities, and traits.

Vayne.8563:

snip

Still explains next to nothing. People learn by doing. Gating isn’t going to get them to learn any faster. A better idea would be to have everyone start as a spirit in the mist to learn a little about Tyria, what the races are, then movements, and combat mechanics. Then after this tutorial phase, be born into Tyria if you will. Even now, if you’ve never played an MMO, you’re going to be a bit lost. So I’d say the changes shackled existing players, while maybe helping a bit the few new players.

DeWolfe.2174:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Still explains next to nothing. People learn by doing. Gating isn’t going to get them to learn any faster. A better idea would be to have everyone start as a spirit in the mist to learn a little about Tyria, what the races are, then movements, and combat mechanics. Then after this tutorial phase, be born into Tyria if you will. Even now, if you’ve never played an MMO, you’re going to be a bit lost. So I’d say the changes shackled existing players, while maybe helping a bit the few new players.

Everyone learns differently. Some people learn by doing. Some people learn by watching. Some people get inundated more easily than others. If you’re the type of person who doesn’t it’s sometimes hard to understand how some people do. This particularly happens when people are out of their comfort zone.

I’m not saying the leveling hasn’t changed. I’m saying it’s not nearly the big deal people are making it out to be, and certainly not the first 15 levels.

Hell people have found a way to key farm already.

I’m not thinking it’s that bad a change.

I would NOT be averse to a toggle to turn it off, however.

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Still doesn’t have to be a kittened level lock system. Why can’t it be a competency system? They apparently understand that concept since they did it for dodge. I don’t want to have to be railroaded into doing a bunch of slow hearts (always the most boring part of this game) just so I can use weapon skills. It should just put you into competency checks. “Do this to move onto the next part”. People who have trouble with it will have to complete it before they go on and people who have done this kitten a million times can breeze through it and not be impeded. Wow, amazing, 4:30am and I can come up with a better system. This is just lazy implementation. Even if, even if you wanted to go with this system, why the hell is it still railroading older players into playing a bunch of grind content before they actually can play their characters? It makes no sense, unless you realize it was lazy implementation.

Ah the old lazy implementation argument. Do you realize how much work went into these changes? This was probably more work than anything Anet could have done. They’ve completely altered the first starting zones including hearts, adding tutorial stuff, adding tips, changing rewards. They could have just done a quick tutorial. That would have been lazy.

I don’t get why people call a change lazy that took more work than anyone would have thought they’d put into it in the first place.

The system is only a grind if you choose to see it as such. It’s so fast to level it’s silly.

What I meant was that it was a lazy concept. The simplest way isn’t always the easiest and the best way isn’t always the hardest. Simple demonstrations of the skills and mechanics would have done far and away more good. For down state you would probably have to be in an instance and from an npc’s perspective, the down state is shown, the action paused with tooltips that you have to click through that highlight what each skill does and small bits and pieces. You can choose to replay. Now, which sounds like less work. A cut scene type event in an instance or having to rework kittening everything when it comes to leveling?

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Still doesn’t have to be a kittened level lock system. Why can’t it be a competency system? They apparently understand that concept since they did it for dodge. I don’t want to have to be railroaded into doing a bunch of slow hearts (always the most boring part of this game) just so I can use weapon skills. It should just put you into competency checks. “Do this to move onto the next part”. People who have trouble with it will have to complete it before they go on and people who have done this kitten a million times can breeze through it and not be impeded. Wow, amazing, 4:30am and I can come up with a better system. This is just lazy implementation. Even if, even if you wanted to go with this system, why the hell is it still railroading older players into playing a bunch of grind content before they actually can play their characters? It makes no sense, unless you realize it was lazy implementation.

Ah the old lazy implementation argument. Do you realize how much work went into these changes? This was probably more work than anything Anet could have done. They’ve completely altered the first starting zones including hearts, adding tutorial stuff, adding tips, changing rewards. They could have just done a quick tutorial. That would have been lazy.

I don’t get why people call a change lazy that took more work than anyone would have thought they’d put into it in the first place.

The system is only a grind if you choose to see it as such. It’s so fast to level it’s silly.

What I meant was that it was a lazy concept. The simplest way isn’t always the easiest and the best way isn’t always the hardest. Simple demonstrations of the skills and mechanics would have done far and away more good. For down state you could have a to be in an instance and from an npc’s perspective, the down state is shown, the action paused with tooltips that you have to click through that highlight what each skill does and small bits and pieces. You can choose to replay. Now, which sounds like less work. A cut scene type event in an instance or having to rework kittening everything when it comes to leveling?

I’m pretty sure that Anet said they tested this with different methods and this was the one they found that was most effective.

Lostwingman.5034:

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

MikaHR.1978:

Lostwingman.5034:

Charleston Chew.1209:

When you say veterans, you mean dinosaurs scared of change. Being in the process of leveling my 11th character, with having finished 10 personal stories and living stories I would say I might fall into your categorization of “veteran” yet I do not agree with a single thing you said.

Please do not try to speak for others. Adapt or move on. How simple life is, innit?

Please explain how one adapts to “oh lol, now you have to grind to content!”?
I’m really interested who else thinks it’s fun to have to ride a railroad for several hours before you’re allowed to play how you want.

I just want to play how I want, simple, innit?

kitten.

Please explain of what “grind” you have to do now that you didnt need to do before? If anything lvl 20 reward is 8 skill points so you dont have to grind 7 skill points (like you had to do before)

Enlighten us all about this “added grind”

Forcing us into specific content before we can play how we want. How is that not an added grind? Oh, it’s you talking. You get to define things. Ok, that’s cool.

What “specific” content lol You mean areas appropriate for your character level for noob levels? Really?

What you did before, run frostgorge/orr train on lvl 2?

Character content genius. You cannot, with a straight face, tell me that the last two feature packs have not added more grind to using character skills, abilities, and traits.

Skills and abilities are actually LESS grind now.

And traits are not part of this feature pack, and people whined about “being more like GW1”. Well, now you have that, why are you whining now again, “community” got what it wanted.
Next time be careful what you wish for, as THAT was directly done because of feedback from “community”.

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

It’s worth it. I’m having a blast leveling now. The amount of unlocks and just seeing what they did with the system is great.

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

This is a stupid tired argument to use. People like change if the change makes sense and is good.

If you’ve played the game on a new character in the last 12 hours you’d notice there’s very little good to be had in the new update.

fellyn.5083:

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

This is a stupid tired argument to use. People like change if the change makes sense and is good.

If you’ve played the game on a new character in the last 12 hours you’d notice there’s very little good to be had in the new update.

People don’t like change. Calling it stupid does not alter that.

Yargesh.4965:

fellyn.5083:

Yargesh.4965:

People don’t like change that is at the heart of it.

This is a stupid tired argument to use. People like change if the change makes sense and is good.

If you’ve played the game on a new character in the last 12 hours you’d notice there’s very little good to be had in the new update.

People don’t like change. Calling it stupid does not alter that.

But it’s not true. I’m all for change if it’s good. The wardrobe change was good, for the most part, the trading post changes are good as well. The crafting UI changes are good, too.

The new player experience is completely and utterly terrible. Most people agree with that it seems. It’s makes the game feel so laughable dumbed down it feels like playing the game with training wheels on, which is essentially what it is. Anet assumes most of it’s new players are stupid brain dead morons who need to have their hands held.

So you see, people don’t hate change. They just hate bad changes.

Look up resistance to change.

Yargesh.4965:

Look up resistance to change.

I’m confused what the point is that you’re trying to make. Are you trying to imply we should like any change just because it’s change? Even if it’s for the negative?

fellyn.5083:

Yargesh.4965:

Look up resistance to change.

I’m confused what the point is that you’re trying to make. Are you trying to imply we should like any change just because it’s change? Even if it’s for the negative?

I am not implying anything. I have written exactly what I mean. Take it anyway you desire.

I thought that what OP said was how anet advertised gw2?

It’s all gone now….
————-
Doubt they will pay any attention to all our rants.
You can see from
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Areanet-stick-to-your-guns/first#post4369791
they only like to listen to good things.

That is not how you show community interaction…. At least tell us know why we all are so wrong and that these changes are necessary. Keeping us in the dark and we will keep ranting and hating.

Yargesh.4965:

Look up resistance to change.

Bad change deserves nothing but resistance.

Respect existence or expect resistance.

Vayne.8563:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

It’s worth it. I’m having a blast leveling now. The amount of unlocks and just seeing what they did with the system is great.

I’m curious, do you think you’ll still be having fun doing it your second or third time around, when you know what to expect?

Yes, this.

It felt like a free world. Like, you know… a second life. An adventure, where your choices were all that mattered. You could do content above your level if you were good, and fail if you were not. You wandered around the world and enjoyed that “living world” with dynamic events and tons of stuff to explore.

Now you log in, press [F], hit 1, get a cookie for it and are directed by large arrows to the next press [F] and hit 1 on the map. You know, like those linear Crysis, Need for Speed and browser flash games.

Oh, exciting!.. not.

Ltomato.8649:

We’re upset because we would not have bought or played this game had it been like this on release.

If that were really the case…surely ‘we’ wouldn’t have known any difference?