Currently I am running a build that uses 2 adept in 1 tree, and 2 major in another.
Even though some of the traits are moving around or being merged, in its current iteration, my build would still need 2 majors, and would completely avoid one of the grandmasters.
I am sure there are plenty of builds that would benefit from being able to double up on adept and major traits, forgoing one of the others (2 adept + grandmaster, 1 adept, 2 major, etc.)
I just don’t understand why there is a bridge that needs to be crossed, and leave everything else behind, even if you want to make traits feel more meaningful (which it seems like you do), it doesn’t help, when you cross the bridge only to have 3 options you don’t even want to use left at the end with no other option but to take one “just because”
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
Totally agree with this. Im largely in favour of the new system, but it cant ruin existing builds. WoW Has had the exact same talent setup for a couple of years now, but the difference is that the talents you choose dont “define” your build. They simply add utility, enhance a certain playstyle, etc. They add flavour to your either your role as tank, healer, or dps. It seems were getting a similar system, which is great imo. Im super excited for this. But my only apprehension comes from the fact that our ability to create a certain build is limited to where those traits are located in the tier. And if they compete with another trait that is inportant for that build to work, theres going to be issues.
This is indeed a massive loss to build flexibility. Just look at the current meta builds, practically all of them use lower level traits. This also means that poor trait development and bugged traits will be far more serious than it is now — and looking at Anet’s development history, these issues aren’t going away anytime soon.
That said, they already have the graphic for the new system. Good luck getting them to make changes at this point.
We don’t know if it’s a loss to flexibility yet. We just know that we wouldn’t be assigning two adept traits any longer. I’m in favor of waiting to see what the traits actually look like before being upset that I can’t assign them in the old way.
Right now, the main reason I assign two adepts at a time is that often the majors don’t offer anything I can actually use. I’d prefer a system with more substantive master traits, even if it means only one adept at a time. This is especially true if, as suggested in some of the presentations, some of the capabilities are moved to minor traits or the baseline and/or merged with master/GM traits.
tl;dr I think it’s too soon to say if this is going to be better or worse (or even) with what we have now.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
We don’t know if it’s a loss to flexibility yet. We just know that we wouldn’t be assigning two adept traits any longer. I’m in favor of waiting to see what the traits actually look like before being upset that I can’t assign them in the old way.
Right now, the main reason I assign two adepts at a time is that often the majors don’t offer anything I can actually use. I’d prefer a system with more substantive master traits, even if it means only one adept at a time. This is especially true if, as suggested in some of the presentations, some of the capabilities are moved to minor traits or the baseline and/or merged with master/GM traits.
tl;dr I think it’s too soon to say if this is going to be better or worse (or even) with what we have now.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
Well to be fair people have been raging about balance since the game was released.
Many choices and good balance usually don’t go well together.
To be fair, i swear they start frothing at the mouth in my PVP guild when it comes to balance… Im hoping that this system is much easier for them to balance so i wont have to listen to it anymore.
The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.
Someone asked this question in the AMA, and the answer I heard was you can certainly do this if you want too. You’re not restricted to going straight across the board and selecting one of each level…they specifically mentioned you could select 2 Grand Master Traits if you wanted too.
Someone asked this question in the AMA, and the answer I heard was you can certainly do this if you want too. You’re not restricted to going straight across the board and selecting one of each level…they specifically mentioned you could select 2 Grand Master Traits if you wanted too.
You can most definitely NOT select 2 grandmaster traits in the same line.
Someone asked this question in the AMA, and the answer I heard was you can certainly do this if you want too. You’re not restricted to going straight across the board and selecting one of each level…they specifically mentioned you could select 2 Grand Master Traits if you wanted too.
I highly doubt this is the case, they never showed any sign of being able to backtrack through the trait tree.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
You misunderstand. Not being able to take multiple Adept or Master traits cannot be anything BUT a loss of flexibility.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
Going by the triplet-design in WoW before they completely screwed it over in the name of numerical balancing, this design can actually be really good.
In theory it allows to make 3 really powerful traits, but since you are guaranteed people can only take a single one of them, they cannot supercharge a specific aspect of their character too much.
Example (abstract, not overly realistic):
Illusions could be centered around shattering, clones and area damage, in descending order of importance.
Minor traits go from most-focused to least-focused.
Major trait selections are the other way around.
Minors give something which upgrades shatter, then something which upgrades clone generation or clone survival during shatters, then something increasing damage areas or something similar.
Adept Major offers 3 improvements to AE damage, say increased AE on shatter, increased ability to hit multiple targets with AA, and more max targets for all multi-target attacks you have.
Master Major offers 3 improvements to clones. Say clone on getting CCed (and the clone is CCed, not you), clones take 75% reduced damage, clones explode for a mixture of debuffs on death.
Finally GM Major offers 3 improvements to shatter. Clones invulnerable once shatter is pressed, you count as a clone for purposes of shatter, Main the Disillusioned.
The point would be to offer one specific point where to buff area X. One only. And you pick one of three improvements. The upside is that the total power becomes worlds easier to balance, baseline power can be buffed significantly (as you cannot stack 12 traits to all enhance the same thing any more) which increases build diversity by lots and lots as you are no longer limited to a handful of things you super-specced, and most importantly it offers actual player choice if done well.
It can be done even better (but this is difficult in GW2 compared to WoW), by offering a choice of 3 things which you weren’t truly interested in.
Example:
Just selecting Illusions gives you 3 minors which include 99% of the shatter spec. Say IP becomes a minor, as does DE, and you get them (and maybe even MtD on top for good measure :P ).
The majors are choices of stuff which is not related to shatter. Say one tier is phantasm traits, one is clone-death traits, one is healing traits.
The point here is to offer very what-you-prefer choices as ideally the triplet offers virtually no power towards the main goal of the tree.
(this part would be virtually impossible to balance as we pick 3 trees)
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I still think it would benefit the player more to have the pool open, rather than restricted, it will be hard to balance regardless.
The main problem I am seeing, is that some of the trait’s are just not useful globally, it is nice to specialize, but some traits in the Grandmaster spots for example, just simply do not add any substance to builds that aren’t specializing into what they have to offer, meaning they limit the build variety potential greatly.
Let’s take the warrior defense tree for example ( http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg). With the new limited system, every weapon based trait will now instantly kitten your available choices if you are not using those weapons. Whereas previously, I could simply trait around them instead.
If I had the defense tree active, and do not happen to run a mace or shield, my choices instantly lose 1/3 of their viable options(per slot!). I not only have a choice between 1/2 in each line, with a pool system I have the option to choose 1 of 6 for each tree, meaning the limiting traits (weapon traits) are less impactful on how I design my build, which is a good thing.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
While I’m all for opportunity costs being a factor in choice, there is a different problem with limited options. That is, that all too many of the traits retain their niche nature. This was OK when there were six options for each adept slot, nine for each master slot and twelve for the GM slot. When there are only three options per slot, broader traits would be better. If you’re going to limit choices, give us better options.
Example of general choices: Elementalist Fire GM. You’ve got a general field trait, a general +offense trait and a generally useful defensive trait.
Example of niche choices: Guardian Honor Adept. You can choose between falling damage reduction, a revive trait and the oh-so-likely proc a small amount of HP when you block while wielding a mace.
If I had the defense tree active, and do not happen to run a mace or shield, my choices instantly lose 1/3 of their viable options(per slot!). I not only have a choice between 1/2 in each line, with a pool system I have the option to choose 1 of 6 for each tree, meaning the limiting traits (weapon traits) are less impactful on how I design my build, which is a good thing.
You also have the choice of not having the defense specialization active. In fact, if you’re not taking it because you want some of those other choices, I’m not sure why you would have it active at all. That would be like an Elementalist going Fire specialization, then complaining that skipping past the fire attuned stuff leaves them no good options in the line to boost their healing.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
If I had the defense tree active, and do not happen to run a mace or shield, my choices instantly lose 1/3 of their viable options(per slot!). I not only have a choice between 1/2 in each line, with a pool system I have the option to choose 1 of 6 for each tree, meaning the limiting traits (weapon traits) are less impactful on how I design my build, which is a good thing.
You also have the choice of not having the defense specialization active. In fact, if you’re not taking it because you want some of those other choices, I’m not sure why you would have it active at all. That would be like an Elementalist going Fire specialization, then complaining that skipping past the fire attuned stuff leaves them no good options in the line to boost their healing.
that makes no sense at all…i could like 6/9 options and just be left with nothing i could use from the grandmaster slot…which is my current situation almost. i like several mid-low tier traits, and none of the grandmaster, but I have to take one of the grandmasters because “Anet Says So”
Since now we will not have the option to take partial of trees, we have the take everything or nothing….how is that defend-able?
You chose a really poor analogy since that isn’t what is really being discussed.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
It’s so limited now that you barely have any options at all once you’ve chosen a “theme” for your build. If you go condi, for example, your options are drastically limited. Not only that, each bugged trait (which we have lots of right now, and will certainly exist in the new system) removes a huge number of options.
So if i play a mesmer and want to trait into domination to use the trait fragility for the 10% dmg multiplier I have to use the grandmaster greatsword training even if I don’t use a greatsword in 80% of the cases in pve because the other two grandmaster traits are even more useless. I totally agree I would prefer to be able to pick a minor or adept one instead by any chance!
Someone asked this question in the AMA, and the answer I heard was you can certainly do this if you want too. You’re not restricted to going straight across the board and selecting one of each level…they specifically mentioned you could select 2 Grand Master Traits if you wanted too.
You can most definitely NOT select 2 grandmaster traits in the same line.
If you don’t believe me that’s fine, if they recorded the AMA and end up posting it on their YouTube channel, go listen to it…it was near the end when they answered someones question about this. I stick by what I heard.
While it might be a slight hit against flexibility, it is worth pointing out that the new system will probably be much easier to balance.
The problem is that developers “balance” the game at most two times a year. Ease of balance is the last cause for concern, if of course developers are honest with themselves.
If I had the defense tree active, and do not happen to run a mace or shield, my choices instantly lose 1/3 of their viable options(per slot!). I not only have a choice between 1/2 in each line, with a pool system I have the option to choose 1 of 6 for each tree, meaning the limiting traits (weapon traits) are less impactful on how I design my build, which is a good thing.
You also have the choice of not having the defense specialization active. In fact, if you’re not taking it because you want some of those other choices, I’m not sure why you would have it active at all. That would be like an Elementalist going Fire specialization, then complaining that skipping past the fire attuned stuff leaves them no good options in the line to boost their healing.
that makes no sense at all…i could like 6/9 options and just be left with nothing i could use from the grandmaster slot…which is my current situation almost. i like several mid-low tier traits, and none of the grandmaster, but I have to take one of the grandmasters because “Anet Says So”
Since now we will not have the option to take partial of trees, we have the take everything or nothing….how is that defend-able?
You chose a really poor analogy since that isn’t what is really being discussed.
You want a trait that’s in that line. Is it enough to make you take that line instead of another, yes or no?
If yes, you take it. If no, you don’t.
Nobody promises that every level in the line will give you something your build specifically needs. I think that’s part of the reason they gave us the extra four traits, to kind of counteract that.
Yes, there are different ways to do it so that it would help your build more. But they’d have to balance it differently, then. What you gain, someone else loses, be it in power now or in delay of changes later because it’s taking them longer to balance things.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
This is what OP is talking about.
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
The answer to:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
This is what OP is talking about.
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
The answer to:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
is orange, yellow, brown.
Choose any other combo is just gimping yourself.
True, but then that was never an option, even in the old system. It wouldn’t be in this one, even if there was back tracking.
The Grandmasters are “build defining,” but some of the masters and even adepts are pretty strong, and some of the grandmasters don’t matter. That was true before, and it’s still true. If I’m running skirmishing and I don’t use sword or shortbow there is only one other option that, while good, might not be as worthwhile to me as some previous traits, and I’m in Skirmishing because at least two of the traits are already a necessity to me.
I mean that’s the whole point behind builds that don’t go all the way to grandmaster, or even to master.
I don’t really care, I’ve already made peace with the new system and rebuilt any of my four line characters to comply. I’m just pointing the realities of some complaints.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
This is what OP is talking about.
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
The answer to:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
is orange, yellow, brown.
Choose any other combo is just gimping yourself.
That would not be an option in either system, you can still only have 1 grandmaster overall, a total of 2 majors if you exclude your grandmaster, or 3 adepts if you exclude your major and grandmaster options, with every build requiring a minimum of 1 adept.
The grandmaster slot is the only option giving you access to the entire pool, giving you only 1 of the “strongest” traits in the end, the major is reduced by 3, and the adept reduced by 3 again.
Whatever analogy they are trying to use doesn’t apply to the system.
Think of it more like:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : red, white, blue, green, purple, black.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
This is what OP is talking about.
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
The answer to:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
is orange, yellow, brown.
Choose any other combo is just gimping yourself.
That would not be an option in either system, you can still only have 1 grandmaster overall, a total of 2 majors if you exclude your grandmaster, or 3 adepts if you exclude your major and grandmaster options, with every build requiring a minimum of 1 adept.
The grandmaster slot is the only option giving you access to the entire pool, giving you only 1 of the “strongest” traits in the end, the major is reduced by 3, and the adept reduced by 3 again.
Whatever analogy they are trying to use doesn’t apply to the system.
Think of it more like:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : red, white, blue, green, purple, black.
Simply adding 3 new options with each step-up in tier, rather than throwing everything else away….(kinda like what we have now cough cough)
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
However, if we are going to make an exact replica of the current trait system, there would be far less combination if we don’t want to kitten ourselves greatly. Which is easier to balance? A trait competing against 9 traits vs. a trait competing against 2 traits.
Maybe the whole thing can be made really simple. At lv 80 there is a total of 50 trait points for example. a GM trait cost 5 point, major cost 4, adept cost 3, other traits 2 or 1, etc (GM, major, adept are just naming). Just assign a base cost of each trait. Then players choose any combo to a sum of 50 freely. If some build ends up overpowered, just increase trait cost to break that build later. This way I feel there are more builds to play
From what I’ve seen so far, I must agree with Ziet. While I understand, somewhat, ANet’s logic behind this, it does limit choices for those players who want, or currently use, two or more traits in the Adept or Master line.
I’d like to test it first, but I can already see it will cause some issues.
The problem is that developers “balance” the game at most two times a year. Ease of balance is the last cause for concern, if of course developers are honest with themselves.
What makes you so sure it is not connected?
Maybe they can’t make swift balancing changes simply due to the fact that there are millions different things they need to take into consideration?
Someone asked this question in the AMA, and the answer I heard was you can certainly do this if you want too. You’re not restricted to going straight across the board and selecting one of each level…they specifically mentioned you could select 2 Grand Master Traits if you wanted too.
You can most definitely NOT select 2 grandmaster traits in the same line.
If you don’t believe me that’s fine, if they recorded the AMA and end up posting it on their YouTube channel, go listen to it…it was near the end when they answered someones question about this. I stick by what I heard.
I think you have it mixed up with them saying you will have another Grandmaster trait to balance it out.
don’t mention WoW system, you chose 1 of 3 specs then some tallents that in a pve environment had a “fixed” set up for each raid encounter, and there was no choice in what you took as others can inspect you and tell u to use X or your kicked.
gw2 lets u mix and match any 3 trait lines out of 5. and then combine traits from all 3 trait lines (with in each respective trait line) giving u a high range of freedom in what u want to take.
they also made a lot of the “meta” traits either baseline or merged 2-3 of the most highly used and in most cases mandatory into 1 trait so that we actually have a choice in build set up.
how ever what you are suggesting. as nice as it would. would cause INSANE balance issues esp if u play say an ele or engineer where just 1 trait choice can greatly impact / define your gameplay in such a massive way, having acces to 2 of these would cause a GREAT imbalance in the force that even non jedi would notice it !!!!!
The problem is that developers “balance” the game at most two times a year. Ease of balance is the last cause for concern, if of course developers are honest with themselves.
What makes you so sure it is not connected?
Maybe they can’t make swift balancing changes simply due to the fact that there are millions different things they need to take into consideration?
don’t mention WoW system, you chose 1 of 3 specs then some tallents that in a pve environment had a “fixed” set up for each raid encounter, and there was no choice in what you took as others can inspect you and tell u to use X or your kicked.
gw2 lets u mix and match any 3 trait lines out of 5. and then combine traits from all 3 trait lines (with in each respective trait line) giving u a high range of freedom in what u want to take.
You conveniently forgot that the only difference is that people cannot inspect you.
There is still an optimal setup. The only difference is that people cannot check whether you’re using it. “Freedom of choice” only applies if an actual choice between two equivalent or at least comparable choices exists. It doesn’t. You want to play PvE, play setup X because it’s flat out better than the other setups.
That’s not saying that a condi guardian cannot do fractals. Sure can do. PvE is easy enough. It’s just not optimal.
If people could inspect, they’d kick you for trait setups in Gw2 ,too. That’s the only real difference.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Have you read all the different new traits? Especially the Necro ones. There are few, if any, really good Grandmaster traits mentioned. As per usual with a necro.
Frankly, unless they totally rework the traits entirely, Necros are once again pooched, moreso without the ability to take 2 master or 2 adept traits in a line.
What will happen is LESS build diversity – they’ve certainly messed up condi necros. The only viable build for WvW would be power. They’ve seemed to have buffed minions – but few necros run a minion-build in WvW.
Without actually being able to try it out, from whats been shown, it looks to be a lot more limiting than it currently is.
If this is to limit meta builds…..its a poor way to do it as it limits many other builds as well. Seems like they want each class limited to be in either 1 or 2 builds and are pushing people to have to play that way. May as well just have pre-defined builds to pick from when you start your class. Why bother with traits at all if you only want each class limited?
I had some hopes when they first said they were redoing the trait system that it would open up more viable builds. Seems to be doing the complete opposite.
I’m behind the change. Having too many traits was actually very limiting because you were shoehorned into taking “the best” for DPS causing you to never take the non-DPS traits (unless you are PvPing).
By restricting choice at each tier and simplifying the traits, they are actually making it viable to use many traits that were otherwise never being taken.
This should result in traits actually impacting HOW you play, rather than how much damage you do, which is a much more engaging goal for the system.
I’d suggest instead of asking for double adept/major traits in a line (I think it’s safe to say it’s just not going to happen. They put too much work in this new system to change it) make suggestions for better Grandmaster traits. The devs clearly want feedback on the kinds of traits classes get, but the likelihood of them changing the entire new mechanic just isn’t high.
Totally agree with this. Im largely in favour of the new system, but it cant ruin existing builds. WoW Has had the exact same talent setup for a couple of years now, but the difference is that the talents you choose dont “define” your build. They simply add utility, enhance a certain playstyle, etc. They add flavour to your either your role as tank, healer, or dps. It seems were getting a similar system, which is great imo. Im super excited for this. But my only apprehension comes from the fact that our ability to create a certain build is limited to where those traits are located in the tier. And if they compete with another trait that is inportant for that build to work, theres going to be issues.
Honestly, I think I disagree with this.
I think current builds NEED to get broken up, and the player base kinda going back to step one. Your WoW example? You pretty much couldn’t be more wrong. The “meta”, ideal builds, optimum rotations… you can count on them changing (often times drastically) with each expansion, and you can even expect to retool your entire approach with every content patch.
I say let it ruin what the players have become comfortable with. The game needs a shakeup.
Anytime I hear a poster compare something ‘new’ being similar to something that’s been in WoW, for a number of years, and saying they’re in favor of it, I get nervous . . . I hope for reasons I don’t have to explain.
I would still like to be able to select a item from a lower tier and use in place of a higher level one. Most of the people I discussed the presentation with did not find creating builds difficult in the past and would prefer more options over flashier interface. If the interface needs to stay please consider allowing players to replace the contacted abilities so that we can run 2 master traits versus 1 master and 1 grand.
At the same time it would also be nice to allow minor traits to have options of their own or even allow us to replace the minor traits with an ability below it. More build variety might be harder to balance, but the more variety the more re-playability the game has and the more people it retains.
I appreciate the structure of the new system and how it will open the door for new growth with new elite specializations, but we will no longer be able to create builds with more than 3 lines so allowing for some player adjustments in the existing lines would be a plus.
Well to be fair people have been raging about balance since the game was released.
Many choices and good balance usually don’t go well together.
Well to be fair, people having been raging more about the lack of build customization.
And to be honest, I’d rather have more options than more equality. For the record, my main builds are often those considered not top gear (afaik). And I think half of them become impossible with the new design.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
