Guild Wars 2

I’m happy to see that I’m not the only 1 who hates HoT maps >.<

Yes, please no more zones like that place…I managed to 100% every other HoT map despite all the problems, but this one is horrible on a level beyond even them. The frustration of trying to get through it to get hero points for a character even left me with a headache for a time. It’s that bad.

I enjoyed exploring it. The problem with the majority of GW2 maps is that I dont find them satisfying to explore. There is no sense of adventure because everything is too easy and accessible to reach. It waters down the landmarks and landscapes enormously when you reach a cool location, yet you are a quick walk to the next.

TD, whilst flawed, is a map catering to adventurers and explorers. Finding masteries and hps deep within tunnels which require a bit of though over the navigation is healthy for a fantasy game.

I understand the frustrations and I am not advocating all maps emulate this, but maps need to cater to a wider audience. A full batch of bland, flat maps is as much not for everyone as complex maps are. Hopefully they will find a middle ground going forward.

I felt exactly the same way about TD at first but after you get to know the map, I find it’s one of the easier maps for me to navigate. It was designed well, just not for people who get frustrated easily. We need more maps like TD.

I quite like TD actually.

A jungle should be hard to navigate. A jungle should be dangerous. Not sure what op was expecting.

TD frustrated the hell of me at first, but I have to say, no map made me say “wow” as much as TD. It’s just so kitten beautiful.

I want more maps like TD IF they can make it more navigable. The minimap is almost no help at all. The other problem is that the mobs are tough, and their difficulty actually punishes exploration.

So overall, TD is easily one of my favorites.

I hated it at first, but after being able to explore it a bit more I find it dangerous, beautiful and entertaining.

I LIKE TANGLED DEPTHS!

The wanderlust of getting lost in a very exotic, colorful, and complicated place is the most enjoyable aspect of this zone and the only aspect that’s enjoyable.

Whats not enjoyable about this zone?

It’s the most grindy map currency.

The most exciting part of any HoT map the “Meta” has the longest wait period, because of this wait period less people are willing to participate or even want to take the time to learn it. Also since the meta bar doesnt reset until after the meta is done the amount of map currency you can farm from the meta is the least you can earn from any HoT map.

Most of its content is anti-solo. CHAMPIONS EVERYWHERE! In a very complicated map like this, help will have trouble getting to you plus at the time i got to this zone most of the player base were still in Verdant Brink.

I completely understand where the op is coming from. I avoided TD for quite sometime. Still to this day, I struggle. But its a ‘get used to’ issue. I remember first going to Orr and finding some places in Malchor’s Leap, Cursed Shore really difficult to navigate and find different places, let alone find a commander on the map. TD still makes me want to pull my hair out when I am trying to catch up with a group, finally get there and they’ve glided off somewhere else as SOON as I get there lol…

But, I love Verdant Brink, I really enjoy the chain events (although added events has messed with this slightly), and I am getting used to TD… not to say it isn’t hard though, because it is.

Interesting to see a “before and after” perspective. It seems like there was more hate for TD several months ago than there is today, with several people saying they hated it at first but rather enjoy it now that they know their way around.

Count me along with the others who love maps like TD and VB. I do hope they show some love to the people who don’t appreciate these maps, but I would hate to see the next expansion feature only flat maps. I’m hooked on this kind of map design!

Hannelore.8153:

A few tips:
1) After first entering the map from Auric Basin, you do a little jump puzzle near the start and take a few wind gusts up to the Great Tree. This allows you to fly over to Ogre Camp and bypass the confusing depths entirely.

I hate this zone, but this sounds like just the help I need to get a better start on it when I enter. The problem is, I can’t find the “little jump puzzle” mentioned. Any advice?

The map tool just does not work well with the hot maps. It comes closest to being usable with AB though. It tries to show you your current level and the top level at the same time … with icons from lower layers shining through (the ^ and v do not tell you a lot since the distance is the distance from where you are, not how much up or down). Since in AB you rarely have map stuff showing at 2 levels at the same xy coordinates (and most of the stuff is on the same rough z level) the map makes a bit more sense once you know the places where it breaks down.

VB is almost there but it has those big chasms all over the place. It keeps feeling like it is half complete.

TD is just insane. I agree that you REALLY need wallows there.

I have yet to enter the dragon map so have no basis to judge that one.

I get the feeling that anet was giving us several completely different styles. That way they can judge what maps to do next. Personally, I would like to see them keep to maps like core tyria or AB.

Albeit confusing at first, having done HoT completion on 15 characters now, Tangled Depths isn’t that bad. The zone was designed on having masteries. The later the zone, the more masteries you really need to have to move around effectively (or even complete – Itzel poison mastery for example). You have to view the “paths” through the zone including the layers and mastery shortcuts, like wallows, in order to really see where it goes. There are some surprising shortcuts that make the zone really easy to navigate once you have played it a while.

Palador.2170:

Hannelore.8153:

A few tips:
1) After first entering the map from Auric Basin, you do a little jump puzzle near the start and take a few wind gusts up to the Great Tree. This allows you to fly over to Ogre Camp and bypass the confusing depths entirely.

I hate this zone, but this sounds like just the help I need to get a better start on it when I enter. The problem is, I can’t find the “little jump puzzle” mentioned. Any advice?

Sort of straight ahead through the camp, where the path splits several ways and you see your first mordrem. There’s a tree with kitten in the trunk. You glide to the hole from a nearby rocky outcropping. On the other side of the hole you can reach the updraft. There is also a hero point you can glide to when you reach the top of the tree.

Ubi.4136:

Albeit confusing at first, having done HoT completion on 15 characters now, Tangled Depths isn’t that bad. The zone was designed on having masteries. The later the zone, the more masteries you really need to have to move around effectively (or even complete – Itzel poison mastery for example). You have to view the “paths” through the zone including the layers and mastery shortcuts, like wallows, in order to really see where it goes. There are some surprising shortcuts that make the zone really easy to navigate once you have played it a while.

This. Exactly. The thing about TD is there are usually multiple ways to get from one place to another. So, while it’s a bear to learn your way around initially, once you start to put the pieces together and discover the various tricks to getting around, it can actually be faster to get around than VB, for comparison.

There are only so many ways into the canopy in VB, and sometimes you end up having to go a fair distance out of your way to reach one. Then you still need to glide halfway across the map to reach your objective! In TD you can get to most places much more quickly by using wallows, provided you know your route.

It’s just a lot more difficult to learn those routes through the tangled depths than it is to find the few routes into the canopy that can take you everywhere in VB.

I suppose the biggest problem I had with TD first wasn’t TD. I ran through the place first back before the elite specializations were changed to require fewer hero points. Getting 400 points was grueling, and the elite specs were 80% of the reason why I bought the expansion in the first place. So, to get the points, I had to go to tangled depths with very few mastery points and bee-line my way to where all the hero points were.

Problem is, the guide I was using assumed that you had all the waypoints unlocked already, so there was absolutely zero explanation how to get basically anywhere. Given the tightly packed zerg rush of difficult monsters in winding narrow labyrinths, trying to rush to find the starting point to rush to the next hero point was like pulling teeth. My first experience with TD wasn’t “fun new zone to explore” but “exceptionally difficult obstacle between me and what I actually want to do”.

I suspect many players have the same experience I do. When they first get to TD, they aren’t looking for an end-game level map to explore and fight through. They’re there for the mastery and hero points. When taken on its own the map is alright (albeit convoluted, since as I said before there is no reason to go down most of the corridors), but nobody takes the map on its own.

AliamRationem.5172:

Sort of straight ahead through the camp, where the path splits several ways and you see your first mordrem. There’s a tree with kitten in the trunk. You glide to the hole from a nearby rocky outcropping. On the other side of the hole you can reach the updraft. There is also a hero point you can glide to when you reach the top of the tree.

Ah, thank you. I found the starting point, and managed to reach one of the HPs. But I can’t figure out my way up to the one on the tree, or that big opening I see in what I think is another tree. I’ll keep at it, now that I can at least get started.

I still don’t LIKE the zone, but this should help me get started with it, when I figure out the updrafts.

Honestly, I think Anet should look at improving the mini-map. That is the only thing they need to do. Personally, I think the map is awesome: great design and great use masteries that you gain while exploring it. It really feels like you accomplished something when you master it and it is the best possible content for endgame purpose. I had a lot more fun exploring it than going to dragon stand for comparison.

You gonna need Subway Style map to Navigate TD.

The zone itself is a masterpiece. The mobs however are ridiculous. Those mushrooms hit way too hard and have way too much cc. If the mob difficult was reduced considering the sheer amount of mobs and respawn timers it wouldn’t be nearly that bad. Love all the hidden shortcuts everywhere.

It’s not too bad. Its 3 layers. It’s a top layer that connects to the camp’s in straight lines, and a bottom one that does the same and some small tunnels that connect top to bottom. Also underwater tunnels which is weird since they weren’t in any of the other maps.

To be honest, might be for my sight problems, but really don’t enjoy exploring TD, it’s the only map I didn’t finish yet of the new ones, I tried to find ways to some vistas and pois by myself but I realized I’ll never get them without vids showing me the path, that’s nothing I can enjoy. And it’s so annoying to follow a commander when he doesn’t tag WP due to the layers.
BUT I really like TD events and Chack Gerent is my fav meta event in game, that’s something!

Agree… I HATE TD with a passion… I don’t even go in there to get all the achievements… hands down the worst map in the game.. no only is it confusing to find your way in to, all the things in there hit way too hard and too…
If next expansions are going to have maps like TD then i am 100% NOT going to buy…

AB is the only good map from the 3 HoT maps.. DS is okay too. VB is also a pain cause most of the stuff is god knows where up in sky… but TD is just the worst…

Vova.2640:

Agree… I HATE TD with a passion… I don’t even go in there to get all the achievements… hands down the worst map in the game.. no only is it confusing to find your way in to, all the things in there hit way too hard and too…
If next expansions are going to have maps like TD then i am 100% NOT going to buy…

AB is the only good map from the 3 HoT maps.. DS is okay too. VB is also a pain cause most of the stuff is god knows where up in sky… but TD is just the worst…

Just like TD, your issue with VB is that you don’t understand how to get around. VB has 3 (possibly more? But I know of three!) pathways into the canopy: one by crossing over the wrecked airship at Mellagan’s wp and over to that 3 boss platform, another by climbing to the top of Faren’s Flyer wp and gliding across to a vine to the north that leads to a chain of updrafts, and another near that southernmost waypoint, head west up the stairs to where you find the doctor during the pact events. There’s a jump mushroom where the dust mites are. Find a vine up above that leads to a platform with wyverns. You run through the middle to find a jump mushroom on the other side that leads to the JP mastery near the matriarch platform.

If you familiarize yourself with those routes into the canopy, VB is easy to navigate. TD is more complex, but it’s the same way. You just have to explore these maps for awhile to get the hang of them.

It’s a very well designed map, but I have to agree with it’s extremely confusing.

I think the issue, and myself often in the same boat, is that the mini map and world map is not filtering out upper and lower levels enough. This a bit of the same case for path to the golem hp at AB.

I would look at the world map, plan my path, and start running. By the time i get there, I can’t get onto the path that I tried to get on because the path is actually on a different level. facepalm WP back and try to figure out a new route.

Honestly I love all the maps in HoT, almost especially TD due to all the details and many layers you can explore. Though I do find the Chak annoying at some point, I personally feel that DS is one of the more tedious maps to manoeuvre around.

TD’s the most varied and visually interesting map. Each section is distinct and navigation becomes simple once you have nuhoch wallows. It feels the most like a metroid area. It’s my favourite map in the entire game.

VB’s an awkward mess and AB’s very repetitive and uninteresting, both the meta and the vine walls make it a chore to map complete or do an adventure if you’ve turned up at the wrong time or in a dead instance.

I love all the HOT maps. Excellent job anet! Cannot wait for the next expansions maps.

Yeah, what you said^

Tangled Depths is by far the worst designed map of any game I’ve ever played. Including Moria in LOTRO. It’s an enormous mess with vets around every corner and under every leaf that makes travelling outside of the designated lane areas a kittening pain.

I avoid this hole unless I need ley line crystals and I very much doubt I’ll ever bother doing map completion unless there’s a big zerg doing it at once.

It’s frankly amazing that Anet managed to make a map more irritating than Dry Top (thanks to it’s sandstorm and crystal mechanic) but with TD they managed it.

Ubik.8315:

I avoid this hole unless I need ley line crystals and I very much doubt I’ll ever bother doing map completion unless there’s a big zerg doing it at once.

You mean like daily squads? Sometimes and not necessarily you, I think many don’t know how squads work. In these HOT maps get in one, your difficulty issue on knowing the map and surviving just got a lot better. Squads are great, you can come and go and not feel pressure that could happen in a small group. You blend in like Marcus Broady, exactly like Marcus Broady.

Random Weirdness.6750:

I used to hate TD, would avoid it whenever possible. But I started running around, completing the meta events and opening up the supply caches, and I ended up learning most of the map. Now its easily my favorite map, because I know it so well. Time and experience makes a lot of the new maps easy to get used to.
It also helps if you have some of the masteries unlocked like the nuhoch wallows

I absolutely love TD. The map is so complex and twists and turns on itself that I am constantly discovering new things, and I’ve spent far more time in TD than any other HoT zone.

If anything, I wish Rata Novus was larger. It doesn’t seem big enough to be a proper city. I love lost underground cities. (Looking at you, Thief: The Dark Project)

I disliked TD in the beginning as well. But the mastery grind and the TD map are awesome together. Too bad they lack the easy access to events like VB or AB.

AB is hands down the best map though.

Well, the like/dislike of TD is more or less determine by people’s navigation habit.

If you are the kind who like to use map/GPS, TD is arguable one of the most miserable map in the game, as mini-map is fairly useless on this map.

If you are the kind just “improvise”, then TD is one of those more “interesting” map. Until you realize everything is connected to ley-line WP, which can be fairly far from the entrance of map without burrow mastery.

Auroralie.3521:

Random Weirdness.6750:

I used to hate TD, would avoid it whenever possible. But I started running around, completing the meta events and opening up the supply caches, and I ended up learning most of the map. Now its easily my favorite map, because I know it so well. Time and experience makes a lot of the new maps easy to get used to.
It also helps if you have some of the masteries unlocked like the nuhoch wallows

I absolutely love TD. The map is so complex and twists and turns on itself that I am constantly discovering new things, and I’ve spent far more time in TD than any other HoT zone.

I like TD as well. I feel the designers really put in effort to make this map the way it is, complex and with alot of depth, things to discover. The non-linearity of the map makes it hard to navigate at first, so it takes time to learn it which is not a bad thing actually.

Still remember the time when I swam underground to discover a hidden area which looks beautiful with the crystals and all, with a secret jumping puzzle that led to the secret asuran dancing room with an achievement. We need to appreciate this kind of design more.

I’ve never gotten out of Verdant Brink, have always gone back to play my lower-level toons. But so far, I find that HoT maps do and at the same time do not encourage exploration and taking in the details of the map. They do encourage it because of how complex they are, and the more WPs you get, the easier it will be to get around. However, they discourage good exploration because of how many mobs there are all over the place. I end up focusing on simply surviving instead of looking at how the devs created the map.

(Also, on an unrelated note, some sound design in VB is very odd. Heard what might have been a tiger, but it literally sounded like a human making a tiger-ish sound, not like a real animal. It was weird, and I was running around trying to figure out where the hell that annoying sound was coming from!)

Nocturnal.5023:

Still remember the time when I swam underground to discover a hidden area which looks beautiful with the crystals and all, with a secret jumping puzzle that led to the secret asuran dancing room with an achievement. We need to appreciate this kind of design more.

Yep, that was an amazing discovery. Immediately told my guild when i surfaced and saw all those crystals,and waited for one of them to show up before proceeding. I had heard about the dance room beforehand, but didn’t know it was at the end of the crystals.

A good day indeed.

But-but-but-but I like TD

I like TD.
It is more complex to figure out and understand.
Still gets confusing from time to time, but that’s ok.
Wish more maps were like this.

Tangled Depths is generally OK if you’re there for the meta or something like that… but trying to get map completion in it was one of the lowest points of GW2 I’ve experienced. There are hero points in places that are very difficult to find a path to… and compounding it all is a horde of trash mobs that really don’t want to let you run past them. (You can still do it, it’s just not much fun.)

Thankfully you don’t actually need to max the Nuhoch mastery line (which takes quite a while) to get the chak lair POI… since there’s no requirement you get back out alive.

As I’ve said before in “I hate TD” threads, I’d be much better with it if I could make my own, account-bound map markings. The slop that is the current minimap not only doesn’t help but sometimes actively hurts attempts at navigation.

Endless Soul.5178:

Nocturnal.5023:

Still remember the time when I swam underground to discover a hidden area which looks beautiful with the crystals and all, with a secret jumping puzzle that led to the secret asuran dancing room with an achievement. We need to appreciate this kind of design more.

Yep, that was an amazing discovery. Immediately told my guild when i surfaced and saw all those crystals,and waited for one of them to show up before proceeding. I had heard about the dance room beforehand, but didn’t know it was at the end of the crystals.

A good day indeed.

Yes, I found that room by accident too. I was just swimming around picking paths at random, saw some crystals and branches that looked climbable and ..bingo!.. there we are.

Agemnon.4608:

Harper.4173:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

TD is a decent concept in theory, but failed in execution. It is a labyrinth that is tightly packed with extremely dangerous enemies, which make navigation hard, except there’s one big problem: You have no reason to go into those labyrinths.

The reality of Tangled Depths is that it is a fairly generic map structure with complicated labyrinths tacked on to the sides. Once you get to Ley-Line Confluence Waypoint the entire map is pretty linear. You just head down the labeled tunnel to get to the respective labeled waypoints. The hardest part from there is figuring out whether you go up or down to get to an event from that respective waypoint.

Oh, there are plenty of confusing paths and mazes in the map, but there’s no reason to go into them. All of the big and important events are usually tethered to Confluence Waypoint, or one of the respective main waypoints in the map, so if you find your bearings there, you’ve basically explored the whole map. The Nuhoch wallows trivialize pretty much everything else from there.

Exactly this – TD is a mess – and it’s a mess because of bad design.
Most of the times it’s not clear if you’re supposed to go up, down or in case you do know – how to get there.
The minimap doesn’t work with the layers well either.

If a player can’t figure out how to get to an event don’t you think the player deserves to miss out? Players need to get lost and die more often and I hope to see more in the next expansion.

I detest TD thus far. One wrong turn and boom, dead. One RIGHT turn, and boom, dead.

“Players need to get lost and die more often?”

I’ll put this simply. I don’t have tons of time to play or grind, or treat anything other than my job like a job. My time is more important that some else’s sense of digital accomplishment. I play GW2 because it’s fun, fast, flexible and accessible. If I wanted to blow hours of time on frustration, I’d be playing Allods.

Highlord.7158:

I’ll put this simply. I don’t have tons of time to play or grind, or treat anything other than my job like a job. My time is more important that some else’s sense of digital accomplishment. I play GW2 because it’s fun, fast, flexible and accessible. If I wanted to blow hours of time on frustration, I’d be playing Allods.

I’m in a similar boat in that I have family and job and not much time to play, but I still find TD one of the most fun maps in the game. It helps a lot if you get a friend or two explore with you, and you’ll soon figure out how the map works. It’s a really beautiful place.

If you are on EU, hit me up during the evenings (mostly 8-10 central European time), and I’ll take you on a sightseeing tour.

Garock.2854:

Has anyone actually enjoyed tangled depths?

Yes, i enjoyed it with all my heart. Its my favorite map so far. If i dont know what to do..but if i want to run around and have an enjoyable advanture..thats my nr1. choise. Its really a cool map..bcs i find evertime something new (even i spent there more than 200h only in this map).
But i agree..if u just wanna rush content get all the achievments and only make the meta and farm stuff..its the most horrible map ever…but that goes away after like 50h there. But i think once u reached the central wp of the meta..it np to even make the meta..since that part of the map is extra easy. So the rest is for fun for people who loves to have advantures <3

(and personaly i wish there will be more of such maps…where the meta is easy(for people who just farm, like most player here) but there r many hidden things which r fun to be discovered)

TD is quite cool map, actually takes some thinking and brain power to navigate.
After initial confusion pretty much everyone get used to it.

I don’t think people really have an issue with the map itself, even though they think they do. I think the real issue is the mob abundancy and the fact that you’re dealing with either Chak, which do a lot of damage, or mushrooms, which are insanely annoying with crowd control AND do a ton of damage.

It’s not just a matter of figuring out your way around, which is actually really fun, it’s managing to figure out how to either avoid a group of mobs so you don’t have to die and find your way back again, or killing everything else first.

I personally love the zone though and think it’s genius. It took me awhile to figure out how and I had a few tour guides here and there but the zone itself is quite amazing. Auric Basin is nice as well but not as intricate as TD. I also enjoy Dragon Stand though but I think that’s because I like the meta most of all, and because I know how to break out of the map and see some of the really cool behind the scenes areas that make me appreciate it more. Coincidentally, Tangled Depths is pretty sweet from out of the map as well. So much detail that the players don’t even see!

If you hate TD because you can’t find your way around, watch a video.
There’s a couple of people on youtube who literally run round the whole zone and you can replicate their route. The maps on dulfy.net for waypoints and mastery points are invaluable.