Guild Wars 2

I just started a Charr character to get the hero story achievements (not a fan of the Charr being a playable race, really) and was strolling the lands of Ascalon.

One mission leads to the Ruins of Rin area within the Black Citadel, and even though I have been there multiple times in the past, my heart sinks each and ever single time I wander the beautiful autumn trees, the cobblestone paved remains of Ascalon’s roads and the old walls. I miss those classic GW designs so much!

What is it with the increasing amount of sci-fi and high-tech designs the design team has been pushing down my throat as of late? Buildings, weapons, armor, utilities etc.

I am playing this game for its genre, which is fantasy not mecha-tech or sci-fi. Please, have a heart and return to the roots and very heart of GW. Don’t let it glide into some futuristic “modern age”.

Ashantara.8731:

I just started a Charr character to get the hero story achievements (not a fan of the Charr being a playable race, really) and was strolling the lands of Ascalon.

One mission leads to the Ruins of Rin area within the Black Citadel, and even though I have been there multiple times in the past, my heart sinks each and ever single time I wander the beautiful autumn trees, the cobblestone paved remains of Ascalon’s roads and the old walls. I miss those classic GW designs so much!

What is it with the increasing amount of sci-fi and high-tech designs the design team has been pushing down my throat as of late? Buildings, weapons, armor, utilities etc.

I am playing this game for its genre, which is fantasy not mecha-tech or sci-fi. Please, have a heart and return to the roots and very heart of GW. Don’t let it glide into modern age.

i think the setting of gw2, at least in tyria, is supposed to be magi/tech

that said, i think they have kind of shifted too far towards the fantastic recently. whether its the magic or the science, almost everything is radical and over the top. A bit of that is ok, but it seems out of balance now, to the point that they have lost a bit of the wow factor

phys.7689:

i think they have kind of shifted too far towards the fantastic recently. whether its the magic or the science, almost everything is radical and over the top. A bit of that is ok, but it seems out of balance now, to the point that they have lost a bit of the wow factor

Agreed.

I don’t mind the Asura with their technology, but I liked that better in GW1 where there were only (more “archaic” looking) golems and a lot of mechanical tinkering. Now we have high-tech computer systems running on magic. It’s ridiculous and feels “loveless”. There is no more heart to it.

This mix of high-tech, magic, dragons and weirdly changed gods (all being interconnected) doesn’t sit well with me. I want my beloved GW back.

Went full-generic-Asian RPG especially with all the overdone particle effects and silly weapons/armor and I’m honestly disappointed. It’s no longer got that great rustic feel.

DeceiverX.8361:

Went full-generic-Asian RPG especially with all the overdone particle effects and silly weapons/armor and I’m honestly disappointed. It’s no longer got that great rustic feel.

This. The term “rustic” describes it perfectly. It’s what a classic RPG should look like <3 and what GW did look like until they launched this new design agenda.

Hmm, I dunno. I think the latest map is pretty awesome, visually.

AliamRationem.5172:

Hmm, I dunno. I think the latest map is pretty awesome, visually.

Jungle maps don’t count. It’s not what any of us was referring to. We were talking about armor, weapons, buildings, and the general increase of futuristic technology. The recent story had plenty of that AGAIN as well, hence my previous comment:

[…] This mix of high-tech, magic, dragons and weirdly changed gods (all being interconnected) doesn’t sit well with me. I want my beloved GW back.

DeceiverX.8361:

Went full-generic-Asian RPG especially with all the overdone particle effects and silly weapons/armor and I’m honestly disappointed. It’s no longer got that great rustic feel.

people always say asian rpg, i dont think yall have played many of these. GW2 current style is a very american take on things.

GW2 has a “high fantasy” theme, always did. And with a touch of the Steampunk/Magitech. Every person have their own taste, likes and dislikes. I’m not a super fan of some of the parts myself (You can shuttle the asura with all their stuff to the moon for all that I care). But they’ve made it this way so that everyone should be able to find something they like somewhere.

Ascalon maps, the Charr areas, are in general some of my favorites. Like the terrain and all the ruins, though personally think the charr is too fond of all their machines. Ah well, when I need a break from that I can go to Siverpeaks for more unspoiled nature, or to Kryta for a more traditional “fantasy” setup.

What we will never get: GW1 back in GW2. For good and bad (depending on the person and their taste). And it would probably feel like a waste for most of ANet to make GW1 maps over again for GW2, they tend to have plans with any maps they create (for story etc), so it seems unlikely they have a use for a “GW1 map” again.

/rant

I would love to see more of Ascalon, or even similar theme! It’s the beautiful places to run around in!
I still hate that Charr allowed to build their crap over the Beautiful city of Ascalon just like that!
GW2 Humans are betrayers for GW1 Ascalonians (also our older characters )

Alga.6498:

I would love to see more of Ascalon, or even similar theme! It’s the beautiful places to run around in!
I still hate that Charr allowed to build their crap over the Beautiful city of Ascalon just like that!
GW2 Humans are betrayers for GW1 Ascalonians (also our older characters )

Do remember that the Humans first took Ascalon from the Charr to begin with, so by that logic it’s Charr’s by right of first claim.

joneirikb.7506:

Alga.6498:

I would love to see more of Ascalon, or even similar theme! It’s the beautiful places to run around in!
I still hate that Charr allowed to build their crap over the Beautiful city of Ascalon just like that!
GW2 Humans are betrayers for GW1 Ascalonians (also our older characters )

Do remember that the Humans first took Ascalon from the Charr to begin with, so by that logic it’s Charr’s by right of first claim.

True, and even before that it was the Grawls homeplace…
But still, pre-searing Ascalon was the beautiful places in GW1, I’d love to visit it again but in GW2… or similar places…

The game is extremly far from being technologic aside from the Asuran (and still it’s a lot of magic involved). On top of that Asuran technology was already a thing in Eye of the North for example. The game happens much after the first GW so it makes sense that some technologic evolution happened. It’s far from being sci-fi, there’s a tiny bit of steam-punk but that’s it seriously. I mean the most advanced weaponry we have is a flamethrower basically, we are far away from spaceships and all man.

Believable worlds need to show technological progression – this is one area GW2 gets right, even if it isn’t always used the right way (Scarlet…Taimi..)

Well GW2 world design and theme falls mostly into what is now because what Era the civilization in GW2 is in.

GW1 was the past where advancement of technology was not so relevent and needed but now in GW2 the world is at a crossroad where Civilization is advancing in technology so rapidly that the old world style of culture and fighting are slowly being replaced with new and more advance technology.

Most Fantasy world either set their timeframe in either the Old world or the Future world of their setting but GW2 is set between the Old and Future world setting thus it being at the crossroad of technology advancement between old magic and new technology.

it is actually a nice setting unique to GW2’s fantasy world because as the story progress we are seeing how a world that once depended on magic only for their culture is now developing into a culture that depend more on advance technolgy.

Well, the expansion’s going to be mostly desert so with luck that will see the high-tech stuff put to rest for a while.

joneirikb.7506:

GW2 has a “high fantasy” theme, always did. And with a touch of the Steampunk/Magitech.

You said it yourself: A touch. The complaint is about it having taken over and destroying the part oldtimers like me loved dearly about the game.

joneirikb.7506:

Do remember that the Humans first took Ascalon from the Charr to begin with, so by that logic it’s Charr’s by right of first claim.

That is correct, but cats being all into metal is just another ridiculous implementation. Their architechtures look awful and displaced in a fantasy world IMO.

Then again, I’ll take that over the whole computer high-tech crap anytime. By the looks of the leaked material for Expansion Pack 2, many of the new elite specializations (and with them most likely new armor sets as well) look totally high-tech as well. Bye-bye, classic Guild Wars, you will be missed.

Ashantara.8731:

joneirikb.7506:

GW2 has a “high fantasy” theme, always did. And with a touch of the Steampunk/Magitech.

You said it yourself: A touch. The complaint is about it having taken over and destroying the part oldtimers like me loved dearly about the game.

joneirikb.7506:

Do remember that the Humans first took Ascalon from the Charr to begin with, so by that logic it’s Charr’s by right of first claim.

That is correct, but cats being all into metal is just another ridiculous implementation. Their architechtures look awful and displaced in a fantasy world IMO.

Then again, I’ll take that over the whole computer high-tech crap anytime. By the looks of the leaked material for Expansion Pack 2, many of the new elite specializations (and with them most likely new armor sets as well) look totally high-tech as well. Bye-bye, classic Guild Wars, you will be missed.

Regarding the Charr turning to machines and technology, I feel that makes sense, considering how they got burned on the flame shamans, and become distrustful of both magic and gods. Their focus on machinery is a pretty natural change.

I do agree that most of their machines looks horrible (like a mix of warhammer 40k Orkz with the super spiky bits from Chaos Ugh).

Though to be fair, personally I miss GW1’s more low fantasy setting, never was a fan of high fantasy myself Ah well. But ANet would rightfully tell me to just play GW1 instead in that case. And I’m way too much in love with GW2 combat to ever go back to GW1, even if they made the setting into a starwars ripoff (shudders).

GW1 was 200 years in the past.

Earth looks like science fiction compared to 200 years ago too.

Haishao.6851:

GW1 was 200 years in the past.

Earth looks like science fiction compared to 200 years ago too.

I am not complaining about the differences between GW1 and GW2.

Please read through my previous posts more carefully. What I am complaining about is the recent developments within GW2.

Haishao.6851:

GW1 was 200 years in the past.

Earth looks like science fiction compared to 200 years ago too.

To be fair, gw1 had a tech level similar to somewhere between 11th century and 14th century europe. Two hundred years later europeans did not have helecopters, machineguns, tanks, autocannon, etc.

Ashen.2907:

To be fair, gw1 had a tech level similar to somewhere between 11th century and 14th century europe. Two hundred years later europeans did not have helecopters, machineguns, tanks, autocannon, etc.

+1 That, too.

But like I said, my complaint is not about the differences between GW1 and GW2. Still, thank for making a valid point there. The devs use “the Asuran genius” and “magic” as an excuse to explain their radical changes within the past year, which I find pretty pitiful, to be honest. It’s like young designers, who happen to be high-fantasy fans (or fans of modern/futuristic settings), have taken over the game.

My points of disconnect with the gw2 tech level is more about anachronism. Bows as a weapon of war in a setting where assault rifles, machine pistols, flamethrowers, grenades and so on not only exist but are commonplace.

Add in attack helicopters, combat drones, submarine wolfpacks, autocannon, etc and it feels a bit out of place to be drawing a sword and yelling charge.

I am not opposed to an mmo with a fantastical setting including bizarre nonhuman races, magic and advanced technology, and so on, but…the decision to put sharpened pieces of kittenock, or metal in competition with machine pistols and assault rifles is a bit off IMO.

If you’d be comparing gw1 and gw2 i would understand. But gw2 always was very high tech in my opinion. At least the pact was very advanced with airships and submarines and fort trinity is a big metal fortress.

Charr and Asura had lots of technology, dredge have technology. Asura gates and waypoints were there since the beginning. Wintersday is a giant golem airship with technological flimflam all around.

And right now I dont find all that much technology in living season 3 as you would in living season 1 with watchknights aetherblades molten alliance scarlets digging machine scarlets mechanical constructs raiding a giant watchknight worldboss mechanical probes and what not.

Living world season 3 is like. Taimi. Ratanovus maybe some exalted magitech taimis little machines and devices…bloodstone infused weapons and jade constructs? I dunno but I cant say I would agree that its more technological than scarlets two years of mechanical madness.

This will be Guild Wars 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Esy83MQ0

Nole.3017:

This will be Guild Wars 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Esy83MQ0

just….just…..just….

Nole.3017:

This will be Guild Wars 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Esy83MQ0

LOL, I’m afraid so!

FrizzFreston.5290:

If you’d be comparing gw1 and gw2 i would understand. But gw2 always was very high tech in my opinion.

I think there is yet another misunderstanding here. It’s all about the design. There are “high-tech” things that are designed to fit into the world (airships being one of them), and then there are things, items, that look totally like out of a sci-fi movie (some recent armor sets, the Dominator weapons, Asuran “computer panels” etc.).

This thread is all about the designs that don’t fit, not the technology per se. Stuff needs to blend in, not destroy the beauty of what we have known and loved as Tyria. Some more classic designs are in order.

I am of the opinion that Anet does need to cool it with the Asura Magi-tech. Seems like EVERYTHING is solved with Asura magi-tech, and it kind of diminishes the other races importance. And its too little magic, too much tech, at least ascetically. You can say its “magic” all you want but its going to be off putting to be using a sword or a bow on what feels like the set of a B science fiction show.

Its all just not been handled properly.

DeceiverX.8361:

Went full-generic-Asian RPG especially with all the overdone particle effects and silly weapons/armor and I’m honestly disappointed. It’s no longer got that great rustic feel.

The old areas have indeed a more rustic feel to the game and I often love to go back a bit and in GW2 you can easily see what’s older and what’s new – except for an increased amount of flora and fauna, which is a bit low in central Tyria. What I like is – I have the music off in all games I play – the feel of it. Back in the 90s, Myst created an eerie and haunting feel with a still image and a ambient sound. I still like to just sit there and scan the areas high above on a cliff. The visual impact of great waterfals and green grass next to a lake with some Skelk wandering around while the sound of a cold wind is coming from the speakers. Or the rainy, dark days on the barren land wherever the centaurs are…

But then, have you ever really played an “Asian” game? GW2 is not even close to it. FF14 for example, I think Japan counts as Asia and “generic” because the design philosophys are there for over 2 decades now, starts out to have nice forest areas in Gridania – and at the end of 2.0 (A Realm Reborn), you have Magi-Tech machines, fighting giant mechs, walk around in a metal castle-like building (Castrum X) with literally metal everywhere. It looks more like the Scrap Brain Zone or Megalopolis Zone from SONIC 2 for the MegaDrive than any Final Fantasy setting you would expect. There are literally red and blue neon pipe lamps and futuristic monorail tracks there – and I was there as Bard, fighting with my harp and bow against machines… Yo… The end bosses were basically weird, deformed Power Rangers.. THAT is generic.

GW2 is hard ad the edge of a bit too much Sci-Fi. While I really enjoy that the Asura get their spotlight and their technology is involved much I think ArenaNet should stop here. Asura Technology should stick to their homelands, maybe camps (with these antennae like things) and the Asura him/herself. Now everything’s forced upon everyone. Norn for example, they are basically contributing not much apart from being the big guys acting tough.

Charr technology is also way too advanced with the Charr copter things. I liked their street lamps with the cog in it as if there is a flintstone permanently keeping the flame up and the rattling noise coming from it.

Ashantara.8731:

What is it with the increasing amount of sci-fi and high-tech designs the design team has been pushing down my throat as of late? Buildings, weapons, armor, utilities etc.

Well the world advanced 250 years. Magitech is everywhere. For science!

Tiny Doom.4380:

Well, the expansion’s going to be mostly desert so with luck that will see the high-tech stuff put to rest for a while.

I’m hoping it doesn’t cost us the Charr vehicles. We need the fury of the engines roaring across the dunes, Mad Max-style.

I’m pretty sure the Human contribution to the world’s tech level is looking at Charr inventions and technology, and removing all the spikes.

I’m not in favor of the steampunk Charr cities, it’s a disgrace to what they were built upon. Nor am I a fan of how the Asuran designs turned out, there once was a time where they almost had a Mayan feeling to it, and even their high-tech golems looked old.
The Norn have become lackluster aswell. Remember Jora? She was a cool Norn.
And don’t get me started about the Sylvari, they’re so cheesy… (except Canach, he’s cool.)
Ever since HoT released the designs of Anet have become more and more thorny and unbalanced, it stings the eye when I look at it. Often I find myself wanting to speak to whoever made an outfit design and ask them Are you really serious?

But to end this rant, I’ll try to put reasoning to it.

GW1 was more serious and mature as a game, while GW2 is catered for kids.

When Zaitan was the enemy there where too many undead and the game should go back to its roots.
When Mordy was the enemy there was too much focus on Sylvari and the game should go back.
Now when Assura are the focus since they have been studying Primordius the game should return to its roots.
GW1 was not a universally enjoyed game. It is not coming back unchanged except for the ability to jump.

The Greyhawk.9107:

I am of the opinion that Anet does need to cool it with the Asura Magi-tech. Seems like EVERYTHING is solved with Asura magi-tech, and it kind of diminishes the other races importance.

Only that? I think that the Asura really diminished the significance of other races when they made the decision “will Ebonhawke stand or fall”, by way of allowing humans to ship in supplies and troops, but refusing the charr access to invade.

Once you are deciding which way wars between other races fall out, they are much less significant in the whole picture. They fight their little wars, but they only win if the asura see it to their own advantage…

Ashantara.8731:

Nole.3017:

This will be Guild Wars 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Esy83MQ0

LOL, I’m afraid so!

FrizzFreston.5290:

If you’d be comparing gw1 and gw2 i would understand. But gw2 always was very high tech in my opinion.

I think there is yet another misunderstanding here. It’s all about the design. There are “high-tech” things that are designed to fit into the world (airships being one of them), and then there are things, items, that look totally like out of a sci-fi movie (some recent armor sets, the Dominator weapons, Asuran “computer panels” etc.).

This thread is all about the designs that don’t fit, not the technology per se. Stuff needs to blend in, not destroy the beauty of what we have known and loved as Tyria. Some more classic designs are in order.

Living World wouldn’t be called Living World if the world didn’t constantly move forward. As new event happen, people adapt and develop new technology to face them.

The Pact was created and developed new technology to face Zaithan.
Scarlet developed new technology to meet her ends and the people developed new technology to go against her.
Ley lines came to lights and people started researching on them. They made discoveries which led to new technological development.
The Pact upgraded their fleet to face mordremoth.
We discovered Rata Novus which led to new researches and discoveries and new technology
Ley line energy got even stronger new discoveries were made and new technology developed.
A Bloodstone exploded which led to new researches and new discoveries and new technological development.
Two Dragons rose at the same time so we needed to adapt again and develop new technology to face them.

And it will continue to go forward.
I wish the world would evolve a bit more evenly but arenanet can only do 1 thing at a time.

I think what the OP problem truly is (and not what transpired into the conversation) is that at the end of the day a lot of recent events is about Taimi being a genius.

My comparison is a bit of a stretch but to me it feels a LOT like a modern “police/detective” series with pseudo high-tech guru stuff behind such as NCIS and others. Taimi is your genius talking through a com and summoning you to the base regularly and send you on missions to do random stuff in each episode.

The real problem is more than the living world is very similar to a tv show in terms of story writing (Kasmeer/Marjory last love troubles is a good example) and less of the story of 5 races surviving in a hard environment (with so many dragons oddly enough liking to sleep).

I also find it refreshing, it is an original way to tackle MMO story-telling to say the least. We could have two type of content, the serie-tv like with living world seasons and the more "planet gw2 real fantasy lore) stories with expansions. I just wished the two matched more together and had a bit more cohesion. Because so far the 5 episodes of this season have been in so many directions, started so many things and truly finished (halfly) only one being the White Mantle and mainly Caudecus threat.

Ashantara.8731:

Nole.3017:

This will be Guild Wars 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Esy83MQ0

LOL, I’m afraid so!

FrizzFreston.5290:

If you’d be comparing gw1 and gw2 i would understand. But gw2 always was very high tech in my opinion.

I think there is yet another misunderstanding here. It’s all about the design. There are “high-tech” things that are designed to fit into the world (airships being one of them), and then there are things, items, that look totally like out of a sci-fi movie (some recent armor sets, the Dominator weapons, Asuran “computer panels” etc.).

This thread is all about the designs that don’t fit, not the technology per se. Stuff needs to blend in, not destroy the beauty of what we have known and loved as Tyria. Some more classic designs are in order.

I dunno, technology usually doesn’t blend in at all. That it does look out of place is pretty natural to me.

Other than that I didn’t really notice that technological stuff looks out of place more than that it already does. So maybe I just don’t see it.

joneirikb.7506:

GW2 has a “high fantasy” theme, always did. And with a touch of the Steampunk/Magitech. Every person have their own taste, likes and dislikes. I’m not a super fan of some of the parts myself (You can shuttle the asura with all their stuff to the moon for all that I care). But they’ve made it this way so that everyone should be able to find something they like somewhere.

Ascalon maps, the Charr areas, are in general some of my favorites. Like the terrain and all the ruins, though personally think the charr is too fond of all their machines. Ah well, when I need a break from that I can go to Siverpeaks for more unspoiled nature, or to Kryta for a more traditional “fantasy” setup.

What we will never get: GW1 back in GW2. For good and bad (depending on the person and their taste). And it would probably feel like a waste for most of ANet to make GW1 maps over again for GW2, they tend to have plans with any maps they create (for story etc), so it seems unlikely they have a use for a “GW1 map” again.

/rant

Go ahead, shuttle us asura to the moon. You just KNOW we would make a secret (or not) moon base up there. Today, Tyria. Tomorrow…

It’s probably no coincidence that green is one of our skin colors. Little AND green.

I dislike the existence of contemporary technology, holograms, flat panels screens etc.
Way points and jump gates are OK, magical teleportation and inter dimensional travel have appeared in many fantasy novels.

I also dislike contemporary language, modern slang, military or police speech.

So the world has advanced 250 years? To an American that must seem like a long time, but look at the history of Europe, on which most fantasy novel are loosely based or influenced by. Start around the time of the rise of the Roman Empire and it’s advanced technology and go right through to Victorian era Britain. Plenty of scope for steam tech and Harry Potter style magic without ending up in the modern ipad world.

I prefer finding old, ancient magic and different secret powerful things to solve problems as opposed to making a machine or whatever science stuff is used to fix everything. There’s no mysterious to just making a device to fix everything. It’s too real and not fun or mystical. It’s like GW1 was the belief in the wizard of oz and then GW2 is opening up the curtain and really it’s just some dude with a computer and there was no magic to it all along. It makes the magic in game seem obsolete and not as grand as it once was.

It would be much cooler and rad if we had to get ancient magical items and rituals and stuff to defeat the dragons as opposed to building a giant laser to just roast them. magic empowers the individual while technology makes the individual insignificant.

It would be acceptable if in the end magic still trumped technology on the grand scale and tech just helped us when our magical abilities weren’t enough, but in this universe tech is able to trump every type of magic and it’s 100% lame.

Metrica Province looks pretty techy sci-fi to me and that’s a starter zone. I think your perception about the game is going to vary depending on what zone you start in.

I much preferred the more renaissance-esque style of GW1 over GW2, all of my GW2 characters I’ve done my best to replicate how amazing the GW1 style was. I appreciate the magi-tech rainbow tards of GW2 but I’d prefer more steam-punk. Of course, that’s just me! I think everyone running around with angel wings takes away the aesthetic of GW2. Those people look absolutely obnoxious but that’s their right & how they want to look.
GW2 feels less poised because of those rushed-felt decisions.

Hopeful that we’ll see more of the older style of GW1 appear, more steampunk/renaissance styles will take place & no more cheaply looking outfits.
Like I said before, that’s just how I feel.

Sombrero.9204:

The game is extremly far from being technologic aside from the Asuran (and still it’s a lot of magic involved). On top of that Asuran technology was already a thing in Eye of the North for example. The game happens much after the first GW so it makes sense that some technologic evolution happened. It’s far from being sci-fi, there’s a tiny bit of steam-punk but that’s it seriously. I mean the most advanced weaponry we have is a flamethrower basically, we are far away from spaceships and all man.

You call this far from being SCIFI ????
Beside that, it would be nice to not lie blatantly into peoples faces.
Living Story and the Aetherblades have ships in the air and shoot lasers on ground targets. The battle for Lions Arch and the Marionette was full of laser pew pew

Haishao.6851:

GW1 was 200 years in the past.

Earth looks like science fiction compared to 200 years ago too.

I’m sure people who use video games to escape from their every day madness highly
appreciate your comment.

If GW2 need one thing more it’s connection to the real world.
May i suggest some lawyers or self helping groups ?

Goldfox.5729:

GW1 was more serious and mature as a game, while GW2 is catered for kids.

Actually, I think it’s more that GW2 is catered to people who were kids 20-30 years ago.

the modern ideas are ruining mmos , older versions did things better.
lineage 2 and wow used to be a lot better in the past and almost everyone admits that.
gw1 i did play but i read so much positive stuff about it that arena net used to leave behind.
i think even runescape players liked their older game more.

lineage 2 tried to become wow and wow tried to become dora the explorer

jihm.2315:

the modern ideas are ruining mmos , older versions did things better.
lineage 2 and wow used to be a lot better in the past and almost everyone admits that.
gw1 i did play but i read so much positive stuff about it that arena net used to leave behind.
i think even runescape players liked their older game more.

I miss classic titles like Zelda Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye for the N64, and in the MMO sphere, SWG pre-CU.

I think there’s a charm to some of those old games that is missing from a lot of modern games, but I’m not sure what it is. It seems to be one of those things that is elusive and hard to grasp onto in art. Perhaps it’s that things are being done too much out of a money-centric philosophy than a design-centric philosophy. Perhaps it’s just that I expect every prominent game to be a classic and only a few can be.

But I am pretty certain that there are some philosophies that took hold in the industry which are detrimental to gameplay more often than not. One of them that sticks out to me is the achievement philosophy. Achievement points, attaching achievements to everything. In Ocarina of Time, you might get a special item or reward for defeating a boss, but it was focused on practicality; getting a tunic that allows you to go back in the temple you just defeated and navigate it more easily, for example. Or getting an item that you need to progress into the next part of the game.

Nowadays, we have games where there are achievements for the sake of achievements. Achievements where literally the only “reward” is a little numerical number that might eventually add up to something (or in some games, may never mean anything other than being a numerical number). It’s more just “brag points” than anything to do with actual gameplay.

The problem with this kind of stuff is that the gameplay might be really well designed and interesting, but it can get drowned out by things like reward saturation drawing your attention to something else. I mean, if I logged into GW2 and played with the UI off and just wandered around, I might find the worlds really gorgeous and engaging, and the clock disappearing.

Instead, when I log in, I find myself asking, “What reward can I get next and how quickly can I get it?”

And I just straight up did not think that way before I started playing games like this. Games like this seriously affected how I think about games and not in a way that I’m happy about.

One of the things that I believe SWG pre-CU got right in the beginning, even though many people thought it was dumb and annoying, was the time it took to get around. On the one hand, it meant you could spend 20-30 minutes just traveling to the location you wanted to do your activity at. On the other hand, it meant you had to slow down. You couldn’t rush through the game and it was a lot harder to become engrossed in efficiency. The pace meant you had more time to do that fundamental thing that MMOs get called multiplayer for: Socializing.

In most modern MMOs, the pace is so fast-moving that you almost need to be on VOIP with other people if you want to get a word in while playing. A lot of activities simply don’t have the space in them to stop and type things out.

Carighan.6758:

Ashantara.8731:

What is it with the increasing amount of sci-fi and high-tech designs the design team has been pushing down my throat as of late? Buildings, weapons, armor, utilities etc.

Well the world advanced 250 years. Magitech is everywhere. For science!

It’s already been said multiple times in this thread that that’s just a lame excuse and poor attempt to explain this nonsense, as it makes no sense whatsoever.

The GW1 setting was something like 14th or 15th century Earth, so add 250 years to that and then tell me again that in the 17th/18th century we had choppers, machine guns, alien-movie type of armor and the like…

The Greyhawk.9107:

I am of the opinion that Anet does need to cool it with the Asura Magi-tech. Seems like EVERYTHING is solved with Asura magi-tech, and it kind of diminishes the other races importance. And its too little magic, too much tech, at least ascetically. You can say its “magic” all you want but its going to be off putting to be using a sword or a bow on what feels like the set of a B science fiction show.

Its all just not been handled properly.

This.

Labjax.2465:

jihm.2315:

the modern ideas are ruining mmos , older versions did things better.
lineage 2 and wow used to be a lot better in the past and almost everyone admits that.
gw1 i did play but i read so much positive stuff about it that arena net used to leave behind.
i think even runescape players liked their older game more.

I miss classic titles like Zelda Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye for the N64, and in the MMO sphere, SWG pre-CU.

I think there’s a charm to some of those old games that is missing from a lot of modern games, but I’m not sure what it is. It seems to be one of those things that is elusive and hard to grasp onto in art. Perhaps it’s that things are being done too much out of a money-centric philosophy than a design-centric philosophy. Perhaps it’s just that I expect every prominent game to be a classic and only a few can be.

But I am pretty certain that there are some philosophies that took hold in the industry which are detrimental to gameplay more often than not. One of them that sticks out to me is the achievement philosophy. Achievement points, attaching achievements to everything. In Ocarina of Time, you might get a special item or reward for defeating a boss, but it was focused on practicality; getting a tunic that allows you to go back in the temple you just defeated and navigate it more easily, for example. Or getting an item that you need to progress into the next part of the game.

Nowadays, we have games where there are achievements for the sake of achievements. Achievements where literally the only “reward” is a little numerical number that might eventually add up to something (or in some games, may never mean anything other than being a numerical number). It’s more just “brag points” than anything to do with actual gameplay.

The problem with this kind of stuff is that the gameplay might be really well designed and interesting, but it can get drowned out by things like reward saturation drawing your attention to something else. I mean, if I logged into GW2 and played with the UI off and just wandered around, I might find the worlds really gorgeous and engaging, and the clock disappearing.

Instead, when I log in, I find myself asking, “What reward can I get next and how quickly can I get it?”

And I just straight up did not think that way before I started playing games like this. Games like this seriously affected how I think about games and not in a way that I’m happy about.

One of the things that I believe SWG pre-CU got right in the beginning, even though many people thought it was dumb and annoying, was the time it took to get around. On the one hand, it meant you could spend 20-30 minutes just traveling to the location you wanted to do your activity at. On the other hand, it meant you had to slow down. You couldn’t rush through the game and it was a lot harder to become engrossed in efficiency. The pace meant you had more time to do that fundamental thing that MMOs get called multiplayer for: Socializing.

In most modern MMOs, the pace is so fast-moving that you almost need to be on VOIP with other people if you want to get a word in while playing. A lot of activities simply don’t have the space in them to stop and type things out.

copying wow from wotlk and after is the biggest mistake mmo devs do.
they forget that wotlk was the hype but also the downfall of wow.
wow used to be a lot better game in vanilla and burning crusade.
the biggest disappointment for me though was lineage trying to become wow
they gave so many skills to classes to fix their weaknesses and also streamlined leveling by forcing you to do daily instances to level up.

mmos need firstly good combat and socialization to be interesting all those new features should not be the main focus

Ashantara.8731:

The GW1 setting was something like 14th or 15th century Earth, so add 250 years to that and then tell me again that in the 17th/18th century we had choppers, machine guns, alien-movie type of armor and the like…

GW1 was also, frankly, a really meh game built around a handful of cool ideas. Yes I understand there are people here who have a host of fond memories for it ,but do keep in mind that for most players of GW2, it’ll mean squat all.

So, rather have a good art-design than a classic one. Also, GW1 != 14th century europe, unless they had giant fire cauldrons to summon a pocket apocalypse from. Not sure, ofc. Might be.

The point being, in universe, 250 years could easily have seen Magitech come into the world, we already had all kinds of magical nonsense before.