Guild Wars 2

I fully agree. Bumping this.

i work in an industry that makes LMS (Learning Management Systems for people not familiar with the term) for companies. Specifically we make training scenarios in virtual game like worlds. I think I know a thing or two about working tutorials into game like environments and this patch is utter nonsense.

Unfortunately, the information you’re asking for is actually extremely valuable (in real $$$) business development information and most likely won’t be forthcoming. I’d love to see it too, it’s probably fascinating.

Windsagio.1340:

Unfortunately, the information you’re asking for is actually extremely valuable (in real $$$) business development information and most likely won’t be forthcoming. I’d love to see it too, it’s probably fascinating.

If they use them as a proof for their argument, then it would be nice that they show them to us.

I mean, here I got a fluffy rabbit here. You cannot see it, but I have it… and it is fluffy.

Yep.

You know, in much of the internet there is a saying for when a poster claims to be a girl. I think something similar applies.

The Elder Dragons most likely. So they won’t be defeated! -_-

But yeah, please do share your numbers ANET. esp. who these people are.

I have worked for several game companies and from time to time, there were these “focus tests” where they get a bunch of average joes off from wherever to test the game or a part of the game. More often than not, when I read these feedback documents, they break down into a few different categories:

- The “OMG I’m playing this game before ANYONE!” type – This person doesn’t provide any useful feedback. They agree with what is in the game is what’s going in and already set in stone, and will just give a 10/10 rating to anything.

- The “So I heard there was gonna be free pizza” type – These people have probably never played a game in their life. I am not kidding when I say this. Easy mechanics like cover / aim / dodge are way above their heads.

- The “Vet gamer” type – These are the ones we want. However, sometimes everything is too easy for them and so balance becomes an issue.

Very rarely do I read these questionnaires and take away anything useful. I don’t know what the case may be for ANet, but these thousands of players who they’ve based the NPE on may not have the best opinions on a post-game survey. It is unfortunate.

Anet doesn’t OWE anyone an explanation though. If you think they’re not doing what they think is best for the game, thats your weird issue.

I’d actually like to see some proof as well. I have never heard of anyone thinking the game was too difficult to learn.

Jaken.6801:

I dare to say it is on the same level as the USA said: “We have information of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Irak”

I uh.

It’s not quite like that.

ANet isn’t taking your money in the same way the government does. If you don’t like the stuff they put out, you can stop giving them money. If you stop paying taxes, well, gl with that
ANet isn’t planning on uh, murdering anyone, installing a new regime or destabilizing a region. At least I don’t think they are. I would probably put “slightly worsening a commercial product” in a different category of badness than “military occupation”

Sarrs.4831:

Jaken.6801:

I dare to say it is on the same level as the USA said: “We have information of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Irak”

I uh.

It’s not quite like that.

ANet isn’t taking your money in the same way the government does. If you don’t like the stuff they put out, you can stop giving them money. If you stop paying taxes, well, gl with that
ANet isn’t planning on uh, murdering anyone, installing a new regime or destabilizing a region. At least I don’t think they are.

Even if they are, this is a completely non-standard way to do so.

This is ridiculous. Do you think they’re lying to us all? Anet has no obligation to provide you with their statistics, and demanding that they do is outright insulting. If you don’t believe them, that’s your prerogative, but nobody is forcing you to stay here against your will.

If you go back and read the 1st month (bad) reviews by players and threads where new players were basically asking how to play, you’d know why ArenaNet made these changes.

I once saw a review where the person complained about how grindy leveling was. Their problem was that they were only killing mobs to level. That was simply what they were accustomed to, and it usually works in practically every other MMO.

Back at launch, many people were coming from other MMOs and expecting the standard experience. In traditional MMOs you’re trained to follow the quests to level and grind mobs when you need to. These people tried to apply the same logic to GW2 and that simply doesn’t work here. With the changes however, now you can follow the hearts and the personal story to level and you can follow the arrow to explore, which is something these players had completely ignored.

If people want the ‘traditional MMO experience’ then they can go play a traditional MMO. GW2 was meant to be different. It was meant to give you freedom and let explore and learn on your own, not hold your hand.

Andred.1087:

This is ridiculous. Do you think they’re lying to us all? Anet has no obligation to provide you with their statistics, and demanding that they do is outright insulting. If you don’t believe them, that’s your prerogative, but nobody is forcing you to stay here against your will.

Is it that crazy to think? Anet has lied straight to the players’ faces before, why would they stop now? People in China complained about the leveling in the chinese client, people complain now, who where the people Anet used to “test” the new leveling? Do they exist?

(the answer is no)

Thia.4891:

If people want the ‘traditional MMO experience’ then they can go play a traditional MMO. GW2 was meant to be different. It was meant to give you freedom and let explore and learn on your own, not hold your hand.

You can always turn off your targeting computer, Luke. Use the force!

You won’t get any statistic because THERE AREN’T ANY!!

Andred.1087:

This is ridiculous. Do you think they’re lying to us all? Anet has no obligation to provide you with their statistics, and demanding that they do is outright insulting. If you don’t believe them, that’s your prerogative, but nobody is forcing you to stay here against your will.

They attracted me with a fake Manifesto, fake promises and all the rest everybody (you included) perfectly knows…so…uhm…yes, i think they’re lying…and i dont feel like i’m insulting them saying this…so far the evidence is that players were insulted not them.

Jaken.6801:

I dare to say it is on the same level as the USA said: “We have information of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Irak”
While it is a radical comparison, the result is more or less the same.
You tell us you have information, but you are not sharing them with us.

This has to be one of the silliest things I have read in a very long time. It is not a “radical” comparison, it’s straight up foolish. I don’t know if you follow world events, and it seems you don’t, but the result of the weapons of mass destruction lie (or misinformation – w/e you believe) was invading a country where many lives were lost. The result of Anet’s actions just seems to be a group of angry gamers. “More or less the same” you say? Yeah, I’m gonna have to go with less…. much less. Like miles and miles less.

But hey, +1 for not Godwinning the thread off the bat.

The sole purpose of this patch was to:
1. Add longevity to the game without actually having to invest in content development by gating progress and implementing the proverbial carrot on a stick.
2. As always, increase cash shop revenue by creating more money sinks and gems to gold conversion.

So there you have it. No further analysis necessary.

As others have pointed out, the data the OP wants is far too valuable to competitors to allow it to be released. ArenaNet has been around for 13 years. If they had a history of making bad business decisions, they would not have lasted that long. In this regard, I think it’s safe to trust them when they say there was a problem that needed to be fixed.

Now whether the solution they have implemented is such a fix appears to be a matter of considerable debate.

i work in an industry that makes LMS (Learning Management Systems for people not familiar with the term) for companies. Specifically we make training scenarios in virtual game like worlds. I think I know a thing or two about working tutorials into game like environments and this patch is utter nonsense.

It always amazes me when MMOs don’t have tutorials in them. A virtual setting which allows user interaction is one of the most ideal ways to teach! The military, airplane pilots, I’m sure you can list even more fields where virtual learning is used.

I was dumbfounded ArenaNet thought GW2 should launch without any kind of tutorial systems at all beyond annoying pop-up text boxes. I can’t speak for how effective this new patch might be, but I have to think this is the kind of thing that should have been incorporated into the game years ago back during its years of development rather than applied post-launch.

Over and over again Arena Net claim that their decisions are based off the detailed metrics they have. I would love to see these magical statistic that Arena Net claim can predict what I would find useful/enjoyable, so far they have been hit and very much miss.

Arena Net might have better luck in getting things right if they flip a coin when making decisions.

I believe that the issue is that some people love the game so much, that they have developed a faith based relationship.

Other, more pragmatic, people are unwilling to invest in this on principle.

Andred.1087:

Savez.4657:

Andred.1087:

This is ridiculous. Do you think they’re lying to us all? Anet has no obligation to provide you with their statistics, and demanding that they do is outright insulting. If you don’t believe them, that’s your prerogative, but nobody is forcing you to stay here against your will.

They attracted me with a fake Manifesto, fake promises and all the rest everybody (you included) perfectly knows…so…uhm…yes, i think they’re lying…and i dont feel like i’m insulting them saying this…so far te evidence is that players were insulted not them.

If by “players” you mean a small selection of childish, paranoid narcissists, then you’re quite right, the players were greatly insulted. The manifesto was years ago. If you can’t accept that things change in the course of years, you’re going to have a hard time in life. And do please list off a few of the “promises” they broke, preferably including a point at which they actually promised something (not suggested, or implied, or indicated they were interested in). You’re just regurgitating everything you’ve read here on the forums.

I dont have hard time in life, because if i buy a thing claiming to have this or that feature, but it doesnt have it i simply dont pay for it…easy .
Things changes over time, thats true, but not in a short time.
No grinding game and the famous horizontal progress? I buy it!
In the very beginning of playing keywords already were “Farm Wars 2” and “Ascended Gear”.
The small selection of childish, paranoid nacisists is flooding the forums as u can see, maybe the selction is not so small? (that was a direct attack insult, i got an infraction for calling a guy “fanboy”, lets see what happens to you…if no infractions/deletion happens then the (also deleted) thread about payed forum posters must be true)
U know what’s the reason that forces a company to switch to megaservers at least? Because a “small” playerbase left the game and maps are empty.

How about just getting them to do another “By the numbers” infographic?

1. metrics like this never make sense, out of context of the tests. People spend a lot of time pouring over the details to understand just what they are — and are not — telling them.
2. Even if ANet were to publish the studies, players wouldn’t automatically agree with how the company interpreted or adjusted the game as a result. All the people up in arms would still be up in arms; all the people who love the changes would still love the changes.

As a result, there’s no benefit to ANet to take the time to publish and a lot of potential downside.

Sarabande.8260:

This has to be one of the silliest things I have read in a very long time. It is not a “radical” comparison, it’s straight up foolish. I don’t know if you follow world events, and it seems you don’t, but the result of the weapons of mass destruction lie (or misinformation – w/e you believe) was invading a country where many lives were lost. The result of Anet’s actions just seems to be a group of angry gamers. “More or less the same” you say? Yeah, I’m gonna have to go with less…. much less. Like miles and miles less.

But hey, +1 for not Godwinning the thread off the bat.

You might be right. It was a bit over the top if you consider the negative side of something that has become a running gag over the years.
Do not take me for foolish, that i do not know about the lost lives and the price humanity in general had to pay there (thought there were many facepalming moments at that time, mosty if the lives lost per country were uttert.)

nevertheless, i didn`t want to et too much into the politcial side, since my mainpoint was basicly: they have info, but they cannot really show it to us, for reasons…

the compairson might be not the best, i admit, but it does not change the issue. Something radical happened and we know only the abriged version of the underlying data.

@Andred
i don`t say that they are lying at us at all. I just want to have some clarifcations on how they came to these conclusions.
A others have pointed out, these metrics can be interpreted in several ways, however giving us at least the option to look into (maybe some) them would be highly apreaciated for a transparent comunication.

As I opened this thread up, there are several variables which in the right combination can offer lots of information.
It would just be a nice move of them to tell us what and how they are getting their metrics.