Guild Wars 2

As the title suggests, please don’t join fractal groups you are not ready for.
There are several great online guides. Check out strife025 ‘s channel on youtube if you havent already.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the new system is much better than the old system.
If you’re running with guildies, and they are explaining to you over vent or whatever, that’s fine. But pug groups only have so much patience, and can only explain strategies so many times before people rage quit after the 10th wipe.
On a separate note: please recognize the power of reflect/prevent projectiles skills, especially on higher fractal levels. I just ran with 3 guardians on fractals 20 and none of them even knew what wall of reflection or sanctuary are.

Hey, sorry to sidetrack but I have a question.
Suppose a F-lvl 4 person is in a group with 4 F-lvl 3 persons, and they do F-lvl 4. Will they be doing the jade maw? and if so, does the F-lvl 3 people still get daily chests?

yes, if you are playing level 4 you will fight jade maw and get your daily reward. Much easier to do odd level fractals now since it doesn’t really matter Just don’t go to fractals 20 if you havent passed fractals 3 yet >:O

Quick Mouse.7635:

yes, if you are playing level 4 you will fight jade maw and get your daily reward. Much easier to do odd level fractals now since it doesn’t really matter Just don’t go to fractals 20 if you havent passed fractals 3 yet >:O

Heh, I stopped around the 17s, glad I can group up for the odds easier now. Thanks for the quick reply!

Just to confirm, the chest and daily at the end of Maw is separate for each player right? so if 3 lvl 20s and 1 lvl 4 do lvl 20 fractal, the 3 lvl 20s will get the daily and chest in accordance to their level? while the level 4 gets his lvl 4 chest and daily.

aint no thang

Lafiel.9372:

Just to confirm, the chest and daily at the end of Maw is separate for each player right? so if 3 lvl 20s and 1 lvl 4 do lvl 20 fractal, the 3 lvl 20s will get the daily and chest in accordance to their level? while the level 4 gets his lvl 4 chest and daily.

That sounds to be the case, yes.

Parties are going to start requiring members to link their rings if they haven’t already, especially in level 20+ fractal groups.

I’ve done more than 500 fractals on my main, so if I decided I wanted to play an alt to get him higher ranked in fractals, I’d start at level 26 or 30 probably… especially since I have rings on all my alts and backs on 2 alts.

But for people with no agony resist or knowledge of tactics in higher level fractals, I agree with the OP. Take it in steps.

Once you’ve done single digit levels of fractals a few times to get to know what to expect (expect more/tougher mobs and abilities the higher you go), do level 10 a few times. There’s a lot of changes at level 10 that ramp up the difficulty. You shouldn’t try 20 until you have 10 or 15AR at least I think. Without AR you’re just a hindrance to the party.

Yeah having no AR is definitely a problem on higher fractals. You can get away with it on level 10; it will also teach you which attacks apply agony and how to avoid it. If you have insane micro you can actually avoid/dodge every single agony attack. But having no clue what’s going on, leroy-ing into boss fights etc. is pretty brutal to the rest of the team. Especially when they have explained several times (by typing it all out, no less) what to do and how to do it.

They should change the window to show like this…

Fractals of the Mists
This portal leads to a mysterious destination. Many
adventurers have entered, few have left.
Recommended Players: 5
Player 1 Reward Level: 80
Player 2 Reward Level: 27
Player 3 Reward Level: 2
Player 4 Reward Level: 25
Player 5 Reward Level: 22
Difficulty Scale: 26 (With arrows for choice)
Enter Explorable Mode (Level 80) Close.

I imagine this will make pugs pretty bad. I already run into players frequently who have clearly been carried to higher levels than they are ready for. Now they can skip and get carried or make it so rediculously hard that you leave or waste way too much of your time.

If a lv 1 person joins with 4x lv 25s

Will the enemies be way too hard for the lv 1 fractal player? Or is there some kind of scaling due to FotM level?

Clark Skinner.4902:

If a lv 1 person joins with 4x lv 25s

Will the enemies be way too hard for the lv 1 fractal player? Or is there some kind of scaling due to FotM level?

If the level 1 is playing in level 25s, Im pretty sure he will instantly die every time a boss appears and pops agony and it won’t be worth reviving them.

Agony is the key factor. And knowing what is going on.

The maw has unavoidable agony at 10+. It gets stronger at 20/30 etc…

sostronk.8167:

Clark Skinner.4902:

If a lv 1 person joins with 4x lv 25s

Will the enemies be way too hard for the lv 1 fractal player? Or is there some kind of scaling due to FotM level?

If the level 1 is playing in level 25s, Im pretty sure he will instantly die every time a boss appears and pops agony and it won’t be worth reviving them.

So you’re basically saying the change….changed nothing and it still segregates the community and is still an elitist dungeon…good to know thanks…what a waste of coding..

Dante.1508:

sostronk.8167:

Clark Skinner.4902:

If a lv 1 person joins with 4x lv 25s

Will the enemies be way too hard for the lv 1 fractal player? Or is there some kind of scaling due to FotM level?

If the level 1 is playing in level 25s, Im pretty sure he will instantly die every time a boss appears and pops agony and it won’t be worth reviving them.

So you’re basically saying the change….changed nothing and it still segregates the community and is still an elitist dungeon…good to know thanks…what a waste of coding..

If you want my opinion, I believe the change segregated the community even more and made it more elitist than it already was. It is great in theory, I see what they were trying to do, but for players like myself I will not want to pug much anymore. FotM can be extremely hard or extremely easy, depending on your team. Before this was smoothed by the fact that the player at least got to X level. Now they could be a level 1 and literally die constantly to the point where it would be quicker and easier not to revive them at all.

Sorry, I should have asked if a lv1 and four lv 9s go in together, are teh enemies going to be way too hard for the lv1, way too easy for teh lv9, or somehow equalized?

Clark Skinner.4902:

Sorry, I should have asked if a lv1 and four lv 9s go in together, are teh enemies going to be way too hard for the lv1, way too easy for teh lv9, or somehow equalized?

So it depends on the level selected by the party. Since in your above example, the max possible level is level 9, then no. Before level 10, the monsters do not have any special abilities and the bosses do not yet have agony. At level 10, bosses get agony and mosters get new (and more powerful) attacks. The damage done by agony increases as you go up in difficulty. At level 10, agony is manageable by popping your heal, but still hurts. If you went into fractals 30 for example with 0AR, agony would one-shot you. For people starting fractals, level methodically until you get to level 10. Don’t join groups >10 until you get ascended items with agony resist. Doing the level 10 daily bonus gives you a chance to get an ascended ring, and one pristine relic. If you don’t find the ring you want, you can always buy the ring you want for 10 pristine relics. Get the simple infusion for 75 regular relics if you don’t have the mats for the ones with stats on them. Save up 1850 regular relics and you can buy an ascended backpack. Good luck!
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/17/gw2-ascended-gear-and-infusion-recipes/

Finally a decent not QQ’ing Fractals Thread. Agree on all the arguments here. Don’t forget that newbies don’t know what to do, so just be patience and explain that, instead of being rude!

Cheers!

and so…the personal/social gating rears it’s ugly head.

Why can’t you just take a newbie along and teach them the ropes? Be a good Samaritan.

LHound.8964:

Finally a decent not QQ’ing Fractals Thread. Agree on all the arguments here. Don’t forget that newbies don’t know what to do, so just be patience and explain that, instead of being rude!

Cheers!

Very true, and I am (perhaps it wasn’t made obvious). I do explain and try my best to bring new players up to speed. So should everyone else. It’s really not that bad.
When I used to run arah all the time, I would spend a good 10-15minutes explaining the giganticus lupicus fight to new players, since that is probably the easiest place in-game to wipe when you don’t know what’s going on.
That being said, if you are new to fractals, please ask questions if you are unsure what to do. You don’t have to exclaim “I’m a total noob, what do I do!?” but it does get frustrating when you spend a good 10 minutes explaining something like the dredge fractal to someone over and over. Then you ask them “got it?” and they say “ok!”, then they don’t do any of the things you just explained xD.

Completely agree.

I don’t want to sound like an elitist or anything, but higher level fractals aren’t easy. I’ve done at least one path of every dungeon. I haven’t done arah path 4 but barring that, 30+ fractals seems more difficult than any other PvE content I’ve experienced in this game.

Higher levels you need to have everyone pulling their weight. Plain and simple. You need to be able to pull your own weight or you bring the party down. It’s not about being an elitist, it’s about wanting to be able to get it done. And honestly we can explain everything a million times over, but if you’re not quite skilled enough for high level fotm, or you use a poor build, then you just cause wipes.

People like to complain about elitist but look at it this way, if one person isn’t skilled enough to complete the fractal and is constantly dying and doesn’t pull his weight, whose in the wrong here? If you can’t pull your weight then you’re a burden on the party and should be replaced.

So there’s a pretty basic rule here:
- do fractals 5 until you’ve seen them all. Takes half a day to learn the mechanics, they aren’t difficult.
- stick to fractals 10 to get the daily as long as you don’t have AR.
- Start doing fractal 20 when you have 5 or 10 AR.

That’s what I’ll be doing. I like the update.
Higher health pools and damage don’t mean anything once you’ve got the mechanics down. I don’t get what all the QQ by elitists is about. Learn the mechanics, go up as high as you can based on your AR. Done.

I have (infused rings) on 5 of my alts.. So what if they are level 1? they have 30AR they can handle the higher levels.. You can’t judge someone purely based on thier level of fractal since it isnt account bound and the rings are.

marnick.4305:

So there’s a pretty basic rule here:
- do fractals 5 until you’ve seen them all. Takes half a day to learn the mechanics, they aren’t difficult.
- stick to fractals 10 to get the daily as long as you don’t have AR.
- Start doing fractal 20 when you have 5 or 10 AR.

That’s what I’ll be doing. I like the update.
Higher health pools and damage don’t mean anything once you’ve got the mechanics down. I don’t get what all the QQ by elitists is about. Learn the mechanics, go up as high as you can based on your AR. Done.

Short Answer: Dodging.

Long Answer: People can’t dodge. A lot of times people in higher level fractals are more practiced with dodging, but not enough to take down a boss with only 1 or 2 players or simply do not want to carry others through. It used to be only a few classes gets a free pass for going down in fractals due to their innate usefulness. Now, anything goes.

People often confuse the scale someone is on with that person’s ability to dodge. I’m certain it’ll get sorted out in no time.

Clouded Judgement.7834:

I have (infused rings) on 5 of my alts.. So what if they are level 1? they have 30AR they can handle the higher levels.. You can’t judge someone purely based on thier level of fractal since it isnt account bound and the rings are.

You also have done fractals then. The above examples were for new people to fotm, not alts.

DancingPenguins.9875:

marnick.4305:

So there’s a pretty basic rule here:
- do fractals 5 until you’ve seen them all. Takes half a day to learn the mechanics, they aren’t difficult.
- stick to fractals 10 to get the daily as long as you don’t have AR.
- Start doing fractal 20 when you have 5 or 10 AR.

That’s what I’ll be doing. I like the update.
Higher health pools and damage don’t mean anything once you’ve got the mechanics down. I don’t get what all the QQ by elitists is about. Learn the mechanics, go up as high as you can based on your AR. Done.

Short Answer: Dodging.

Long Answer: People can’t dodge. A lot of times people in higher level fractals are more practiced with dodging, but not enough to take down a boss with only 1 or 2 players or simply do not want to carry others through. It used to be only a few classes gets a free pass for going down in fractals due to their innate usefulness. Now, anything goes.

Dodging has a place in every encounter in the game. People who don’t dodge have a problem with the game mechanics in general, not just with fractals.

Heh I am a guardian and none of pug people I run fractals with don’t know about reflect/block projectiles guardian has…

marnick.4305:

DancingPenguins.9875:

marnick.4305:

So there’s a pretty basic rule here:
- do fractals 5 until you’ve seen them all. Takes half a day to learn the mechanics, they aren’t difficult.
- stick to fractals 10 to get the daily as long as you don’t have AR.
- Start doing fractal 20 when you have 5 or 10 AR.

That’s what I’ll be doing. I like the update.
Higher health pools and damage don’t mean anything once you’ve got the mechanics down. I don’t get what all the QQ by elitists is about. Learn the mechanics, go up as high as you can based on your AR. Done.

Short Answer: Dodging.

Long Answer: People can’t dodge. A lot of times people in higher level fractals are more practiced with dodging, but not enough to take down a boss with only 1 or 2 players or simply do not want to carry others through. It used to be only a few classes gets a free pass for going down in fractals due to their innate usefulness. Now, anything goes.

Dodging has a place in every encounter in the game. People who don’t dodge have a problem with the game mechanics in general, not just with fractals.

It’s a lot more apparent in fractals so people notice it. For example, you’ll rarely notice a keyboard turner or a clicker in world PvE or most other dungeons. There aren’t any mechanics that punishes these styles of play. Certain fractals makes them apparent in a very close team environment, so people tend to notice. They would also start caring because one person is dragging down the group.

Not just dodging but knowing how to play and build your character.

When you start low level fractals they’ll be filled with 5 signet warriors that never switch from greatsword. They die out the higher you go. There’s players who clearly have no clue how to play their character properly. When I run AC I frequently see eles that run a 4 signet build (last run had an ele with signet of restoration, signet of fire, signet of water, signet of air) that almost never switch attunements and it just makes me think “wow I’m so glad I don’t see these guys in my fractal runs.” I don’t say that to them of course.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Not just dodging but knowing how to play and build your character.

When you start low level fractals they’ll be filled with 5 signet warriors that never switch from greatsword. They die out the higher you go. There’s players who clearly have no clue how to play their character properly. When I run AC I frequently see eles that run a 4 signet build (last run had an ele with signet of restoration, signet of fire, signet of water, signet of air) that almost never switch attunements and it just makes me think “wow I’m so glad I don’t see these guys in my fractal runs.” I don’t say that to them of course.

That’s why I look at the name and builds for red flags before entering any dungeon with people.

You SHOULD tell them their builds suck and why their builds suck. It helps them improve their own gaming experience.

They need to show the level of fractal each group member is on or even better yet, instead of being completely open ended now, make the max level of fractal the person can do, be like 5 higher than the fractal they are on. So if they are on level 20, they could do up to 25.

Tonight, I did a 26, which was particularly bad with this new system, despite everyone in group saying they were at least on level 22. I knew it was going to be bad, when we are doing the Grawl fractal, and 1 group member is standing there doing nothing on the 1st boss fight, because he’s too busy typing out his question of “Why are you throwing stones at the shaman this early in the fight? I thought you have to wait for him to come down first.”

this is not something new…
fotm 20-26 became unplayable since last month when too many players was brought to higher levels despite not even knowing basic fotm mechanics….

They don t know what to do.
They don t read chat
They just wander around and die Always

Yesterday prepatch at 22 i was in party with 3 players wandering around 2 rooms on floor 3 of cliffside…..

WIthout hammer, Killing random mobs…..they left me alone with hammer and even ignored target (not to mention common strategy we all know for that part).

So nothing i m not used to…

Only difference is that now fractals are harder than Yesterday……they somehow increased difficulty at 20 ._. along with agony damage and other things…

I wonder if i will be able to do fotm 28 with ar25 again……

That’s why I look at the name and builds for red flags before entering any dungeon with people.

You SHOULD tell them their builds suck and why their builds suck. It helps them improve their own gaming experience.

I’ve tried many times.

Unfortunately most of the people who run those types of builds have had it explained to them many times. They then refuse to admit that their build isn’t good and refuse to listen to what others tell them.

Not all of them. Some of them will talk to someone more experienced and improve their build. This was actually pretty common a while ago, but now a days someone using that build has already been told it’s bad, why it’s bad, and how it could be improved, but don’t care.

nethykins.7986:

and so…the personal/social gating rears it’s ugly head.

Why can’t you just take a newbie along and teach them the ropes? Be a good Samaritan.

Sometimes I am that guy that wants a fast run through a dungeon with people who know their stuff. Sometimes I’m tight for time or just plain grumpy.

I actually don’t mind taking people on ‘teaching runs’, though. My alts are generally in a good place, gear wise, I can start spreading the love a bit. My patience drops if newbies are total dum-dums who can’t dodge, defend themselves, or follow basic instructions/advice though. Because of this, you will find that 99% of players will be, for want of a better word, elitest when it comes to who they group with. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this – if you want the pretty things you gotta grind – but it does make some people uber intolerant.

I guess some fractals are quite newbie unfriendly, especially those players who are not just new to Fractals, but new to the game also, and haven’t honed their survival methods as well as others and end up dying on the swamp or beginning of the dredge fractals. Since you don’t know what you’re gonna get, the majority of players don’t wanna have to spend +5 mins per fractal explaining and waiting for the new player to keep up.

As for me…. I’m on fractal L17. I’m bored of it honestly. I got 2 ascended rings out of it, and a back brace, but now I sort of feel like I shouldn’t go with L20+ groups until I’ve managed to get at least 20 agony resist, more out of respect for those groups than anything. I’m sure by the time I’ve got that 20 agony resist the bulk of the population will be on L40s and I’ll be undergeared once again. This is just why I usually can’t be bothered with fractals and WISH THEY’D STOP PUTTING IT IN THE MONTHLY. I just worry that Agony will be needed elsewhere in the game, at some point, and I’ll be too far behind to participate in new content. I don’t know, it’s a strange ‘gamble’…

Sarie.1630:

As for me…. I’m on fractal L17. I’m bored of it honestly. I got 2 ascended rings out of it, and a back brace, but now I sort of feel like I shouldn’t go with L20+ groups until I’ve managed to get at least 20 agony resist, more out of respect for those groups than anything. I’m sure by the time I’ve got that 20 agony resist the bulk of the population will be on L40s and I’ll be undergeared once again.

The thing is, many builds will not survive the trash on 40 without being carried. Most people cannot dodge well enough to survive the agony without being overstacked in AR.

Unfortunately, ANet decides that until these same people can reach 40, they won’t open up the cap on fractals. Why even make a scaled dungeon in the first place.

I think the point is that you can group with people near your level. Say you’re a level 7, you can group up with people from 5-9 (or 10) and still do well.

Been to level 10 did the daily a couple times, haven’t got a ring yet, and wouldn’t dare go any higher till I do. Saving for back piece too.

I seriously hope people have the common sense to stay the hell out of a fractal that they really shouldnt belong in. Id say joining a group that is going to run a fractal that is 5 levels above you is OK. 10 is ok, but thats pushing it. Beyond that, no.

BTW, curious(I wasnt paying attention), what was LFG like? What were people spamming in LFG?

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Completely agree.

I don’t want to sound like an elitist or anything, but higher level fractals aren’t easy. I’ve done at least one path of every dungeon. I haven’t done arah path 4 but barring that, 30+ fractals seems more difficult than any other PvE content I’ve experienced in this game.

Higher levels you need to have everyone pulling their weight. Plain and simple. You need to be able to pull your own weight or you bring the party down. It’s not about being an elitist, it’s about wanting to be able to get it done. And honestly we can explain everything a million times over, but if you’re not quite skilled enough for high level fotm, or you use a poor build, then you just cause wipes.

People like to complain about elitist but look at it this way, if one person isn’t skilled enough to complete the fractal and is constantly dying and doesn’t pull his weight, whose in the wrong here? If you can’t pull your weight then you’re a burden on the party and should be replaced.

“Pull your weight” is by itself an elitist comment though (no offense.) Especially since someone may expect another player to play by his/her rules (which may be unwarranted, or his/her own perception of what is “right”), or else use specific builds/skills/gear, etc. In short, there’s no established standard about what “pulling your own weight” is, and to pretend that there is does reek of elitism.

(For the record, I wouldn’t also go to high level Fractals for which I lack sufficient Agony resistance, so I do understand that most people would want party members to be somewhat well-prepared for Agony, elitists or otherwise.)

I would hate that a random person that knows NOTHING of my playing skill judges me “not good enough” because I made some mistake, appeared to “not be listening”, or worse, was blamed for party deaths/wipes because I was not “following orders”, even though my “rebellion” was totally unintentional, and their deaths may not have been my fault at all. Make sure a player is INTENTIONALLY slowing you down, or else is really, really “bad” (how bad can a player who has been playing forever can be?) before you make snap judgements about his/her playing ability and worse, kick him/her out.

I understand you may not be that kind of player I mentioned, but it does happen a lot, and will still happen. Elitism is not my thing, and I fear Fractals of the Mist, which does fosters such bad attitudes, will never be my cup of tea either.

I also understand that elitism is sometimes a personality thing, so if that’s how you are, so be it; but I am not that way, and that’s OK too (we just shouldn’t play together if that’s the case, which is fine.)

They should modify the system so that it works in tiers. As in, any 1-10 level can group up, so it is easier for people to find groups to level their fractals, but someone who is below 11 cannot do fractals above that level. 11-20 again can, then 21 – 30 and so on.

I think this would remove a lot of frustration people have both with finding low-level fractal groups and with getting inexperienced people in high level fractals.

Star Ace.5207:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Completely agree.

I don’t want to sound like an elitist or anything, but higher level fractals aren’t easy. I’ve done at least one path of every dungeon. I haven’t done arah path 4 but barring that, 30+ fractals seems more difficult than any other PvE content I’ve experienced in this game.

Higher levels you need to have everyone pulling their weight. Plain and simple. You need to be able to pull your own weight or you bring the party down. It’s not about being an elitist, it’s about wanting to be able to get it done. And honestly we can explain everything a million times over, but if you’re not quite skilled enough for high level fotm, or you use a poor build, then you just cause wipes.

People like to complain about elitist but look at it this way, if one person isn’t skilled enough to complete the fractal and is constantly dying and doesn’t pull his weight, whose in the wrong here? If you can’t pull your weight then you’re a burden on the party and should be replaced.

“Pull your weight” is by itself an elitist comment though (no offense.) Especially since someone may expect another player to play by his/her rules (which may be unwarranted, or his/her own perception of what is “right”), or else use specific builds/skills/gear, etc. In short, there’s no established standard about what “pulling your own weight” is, and to pretend that there is does reek of elitism.

(For the record, I wouldn’t also go to high level Fractals for which I lack sufficient Agony resistance, so I do understand that most people would want party members to be somewhat well-prepared for Agony, elitists or otherwise.)

I would hate that a random person that knows NOTHING of my playing skill judges me “not good enough” because I made some mistake, appeared to “not be listening”, or worse, was blamed for party deaths/wipes because I was not “following orders”, even though my “rebellion” was totally unintentional, and their deaths may not have been my fault at all. Make sure a player is INTENTIONALLY slowing you down, or else is really, really “bad” (how bad can a player who has been playing forever can be?) before you make snap judgements about his/her playing ability and worse, kick him/her out.

I understand you may not be that kind of player I mentioned, but it does happen a lot, and will still happen. Elitism is not my thing, and I fear Fractals of the Mist, which does fosters such bad attitudes, will never be my cup of tea either.

I also understand that elitism is sometimes a personality thing, so if that’s how you are, so be it; but I am not that way, and that’s OK too (we just shouldn’t play together if that’s the case, which is fine.)

Here’s the thing though : There’s a place for unexperienced people to go in fractals – the low levels. There, things are much more forgiving (this goes for both combat and non-combat things like the Swamp fractal time allowance). On top of that, anyone experienced in a group at this level can expect people may not know what to do, and teach accordingly.

The problem is unexperienced people are now avoiding the low levels completely.

It might sound elitist to you to expect that when you get a group for a higher level fractal that everyone be already familiar with all the encounters and not need explaining, but that’s because this is the more advanced section.

The reason they’re avoiding the low levels is because the drops are better higher up. It’s basically being selfish; wanting a reward they’re not yet practiced enough to get, and as a result, people who have put in the time to learn are suffering for this selfishness.

Gaudrath.6725:

They should modify the system so that it works in tiers. As in, any 1-10 level can group up, so it is easier for people to find groups to level their fractals, but someone who is below 11 cannot do fractals above that level. 11-20 again can, then 21 – 30 and so on.

I think this would remove a lot of frustration people have both with finding low-level fractal groups and with getting inexperienced people in high level fractals.

I was thinking the same thing, but then the problem is people running on alts who are level 30 on their mains and have a lot of AR on their alts, just haven’t leveled them up yet. They want to do lvl 30 with their guilds or whatever.