Guild Wars 2

This way, people who like to be ranged will not be yelled at in dungeons. If a player is not in a party, perhaps his/her boons will apply to the 4 closest allies not in party.

Taking the short range requirement off of boons would have two effects:

1. It would remove the coordination aspect of using them
2. Instead of complaining about ranged players because of boons, people will complain about them using ranged weapons when melee is better

+1 to the OP’s suggestion

It would remove one of the reason’s people give as being critical for stacking. If it helps kill off 10 armed flailing masses of tissue – I’m a supporter.

I agree something has to be done. Anet has made longbow skills most effective at the 1000-1500 range, and yet the boons that help the group have a shorter range. Spotter is only 600, spirits are only 1000. Which means its impossible for Rangers to maximize their effectiveness in a group, even if they had better pet control/higher dps, because they have to chose between their most effective dps and sharing their boons (speaking entirely of ranged, of course, this isn’t an issue in melee).

It is strictly against the PVP

funkylovemonkey.3097:

I agree something has to be done. Anet has made longbow skills most effective at the 1000-1500 range, and yet the boons that help the group have a shorter range. Spotter is only 600, spirits are only 1000. Which means its impossible for Rangers to maximize their effectiveness in a group, even if they had better pet control/higher dps, because they have to chose between their most effective dps and sharing their boons (speaking entirely of ranged, of course, this isn’t an issue in melee).

If this is for dungeons and a ranger wants to be ‘maximizing their effectiveness in groups’ they should not be using a bow regardless.

Sw/wh or Sw/Axe and Gs are what should be used for ‘most effective dps’. In which case they would be, as you say, in melee range so it wouldn’t be a big deal.

-GMB

Sword/wh is the best DPS but not if the player isn’t effective at it. Let’s be real here some people will excel at your meta nonsense and perfect play. Those people already have hardcore groups they go with. some people just play better ranged or mid ranged or like the type. Right now the way to dungeon is pretty much stack, boon spam and go along your way only really using a few classes in the game.

That’s boring. taking off boon range at least in pve/dungeons would help players play their own way without denying boons from their group. Just because a certain weapon set is effective doesn’t mean everyone will be effective with it or even like it. So why deny people wanting to play a certain style? What harm would it do?

Why should you be able to chill out at 1500 range and get as many boons as everyone else up in the boss’ face in melee? You’re at no risk, they are, you don’t deserve to receive any of their boons. You’re taking ‘play how you want’ out of context just like everyone else in this forum, anet haven’t said anything about how you should be allowed to chill at max range and be rewarded for afk pewpewing bosses.

maha.7902:

Why should you be able to chill out at 1500 range and get as many boons as everyone else up in the boss’ face in melee? You’re at no risk, they are, you don’t deserve to receive any of their boons. You’re taking ‘play how you want’ out of context just like everyone else in this forum, anet haven’t said anything about how you should be allowed to chill at max range and be rewarded for afk pewpewing bosses.

Well that’s just silly talk. Ranger has an effective long range play to it. If you roll a melee based class than playing in melee makes sense. Besides most players in game just stack and use the environment to bypass boss abilities anyways. Many bosses have ranged attacks and melee already gets a bonus to it’s damage as is. Melee is rewarded for it being melee while ranged is penalized at pretty much every turn in pve. So i don’t see how having someone at range be more effective than they are now is at all holding down the melee types.

Assuming this isn’t a joke thread, no, for the reasons already mentioned.

maha.7902:

Why should you be able to chill out at 1500 range and get as many boons as everyone else up in the boss’ face in melee? You’re at no risk, they are, you don’t deserve to receive any of their boons. You’re taking ‘play how you want’ out of context just like everyone else in this forum, anet haven’t said anything about how you should be allowed to chill at max range and be rewarded for afk pewpewing bosses.

Actually I would say since there is no such thing as body blocking in this game – They are at equal “risk”. Its just limiting AI and game mechanics that prevents said AI from attacking a distant player, most times. But again, a melee player is not pinning a boss or mob down in front of them.

Every class is melee based except engineer. I also would like examples of using the environment to bypass mechanics. The point is, the game pushes melee play with the limited boon range and higher damage, I don’t see why players chilling in the back line should be rewarded in any way when they’re at no risk.

Are you seriously trying to say that the Ranger profession isn’t iconic and known to be “range based”. Just because it has the ability to use melee weapons, doesn’t mean that its a primary weapon type for the profession. …. That because of cheap combat/game mechanics the Ranger now has to melee and view its bows as equally cheap toys?
I’m not a Ranger main… but I feel the need to speak up for them in this.

Most classes have a melee way to play them yes but it doesn’t mean it’s always as effective or fun for those said classes. By your logic theives, d/d ele and dps guards should be complaining that Warriors have more survivability without giving up much of their DPS since they’re all doing melee. Someone ranging doesn’t take away anything at all from those melee classes because they’re going to be doing less damage. But what’s better, someone who can range and stay up 100% of the time and avoid boss agro? Or someone who isn’t very good at melee, gets cleaved a lot, goes down and ends up doing less damage?

As I said, taking the range off won’t make ranged DPS zomgwtf over melee DPS, just let those players actually help their group with boons and someone if they do not get hit with boss attacks, (Even though most bosses have ranged attacks) to help support and get people up if there is an accidental screw up. Pve already punishes some classes for having too much condi type damage or lack of buffs in general.

All this would do is open up the option for people to play at ranged if they want.

I really don’t think that removing the range factor would be a good idea. But boosting it to like 2000, 1500, 1000 range? Enough so that someone don’t need to be always stacked. Don’t also mean that stacking would be useless. For sPvP, i don’t know. 1000 range seem pretty good, but 2000 seem a bit too range in the small map used in sPvP. And I don’t really like that sPvP and the rest of the game have too much of different rules. So maybe 1000 range would be better.

The point is, its a step toward more diversity in meta build. I like that I can Hammer camp, use GS + Sw/F, or GS + Hammer or GS + Scepter and still do really good dmg (even if GS + Scepter is situational). I would like more good option that feel different. And for ranger its really, really limited. Why not work toward finding a nice for those weapons to make them useful? I would like to see the ranger longbow being one of the best Single Target in the game, while putting a good amount of vulnerability. A Sw/Warhorn + Longbow meta ranger would be nice too see. A longbow build that can actually bring something to the party. Who can be against that?

Anyway, I think that setting the range of boons and buff to something like 1000 range would bring a bit more tactical mobility, while not removing the fact that you need to stay relatively close to your teamates.

Thaddeus.4891:

I really don’t think that removing the range factor would be a good idea. But boosting it to like 2000, 1500, 1000 range? Enough so that someone don’t need to be always stacked. Don’t also mean that stacking would be useless. For sPvP, i don’t know. 1000 range seem pretty good, but 2000 seem a bit too range in the small map used in sPvP. And I don’t really like that sPvP and the rest of the game have too much of different rules. So maybe 1000 range would be better.

The point is, its a step toward more diversity in meta build. I like that I can Hammer camp, use GS + Sw/F, or GS + Hammer or GS + Scepter and still do really good dmg (even if GS + Scepter is situational). I would like more good option that feel different. And for ranger its really, really limited. Why not work toward finding a nice for those weapons to make them useful? I would like to see the ranger longbow being one of the best Single Target in the game, while putting a good amount of vulnerability. A Sw/Warhorn + Longbow meta ranger would be nice too see. A longbow build that can actually bring something to the party. Who can be against that?

Anyway, I think that setting the range of boons and buff to something like 1000 range would bring a bit more tactical mobility, while not removing the fact that you need to stay relatively close to your teamates.

Could just make it so the changes only work in pve/dungeons and not spvp or wvw.

The person meleeing and dying is always better since at least they’re trying to learn the fights. I made an ele, leveled them within like 3 hours, and immediately went full glass cannon. Going from playing classes like Mesmer and warrior meant I’ve died and I need to learn the limits of my class but I can guarantee you I’ve done more dps than the groups I’ve joined – I did arah story, and when I died the bloated creeper actually started out healing the four other players in the party. Once they got me back up I was able to finish the fight with them. Like I honestly don’t think you realise how large the difference is between melee and ranged dps. You can already play ranged anyway, just don’t expect it to be even close to optimal.

Sunshine.4680:

Thaddeus.4891:

I really don’t think that removing the range factor would be a good idea. But boosting it to like 2000, 1500, 1000 range? Enough so that someone don’t need to be always stacked. Don’t also mean that stacking would be useless. For sPvP, i don’t know. 1000 range seem pretty good, but 2000 seem a bit too range in the small map used in sPvP. And I don’t really like that sPvP and the rest of the game have too much of different rules. So maybe 1000 range would be better.

The point is, its a step toward more diversity in meta build. I like that I can Hammer camp, use GS + Sw/F, or GS + Hammer or GS + Scepter and still do really good dmg (even if GS + Scepter is situational). I would like more good option that feel different. And for ranger its really, really limited. Why not work toward finding a nice for those weapons to make them useful? I would like to see the ranger longbow being one of the best Single Target in the game, while putting a good amount of vulnerability. A Sw/Warhorn + Longbow meta ranger would be nice too see. A longbow build that can actually bring something to the party. Who can be against that?

Anyway, I think that setting the range of boons and buff to something like 1000 range would bring a bit more tactical mobility, while not removing the fact that you need to stay relatively close to your teamates.

Could just make it so the changes only work in pve/dungeons and not spvp or wvw.

spvp maybe…. But WvW could use the changes.

maha.7902:

The person meleeing and dying is always better since at least they’re trying to learn the fights. I made an ele, leveled them within like 3 hours, and immediately went full glass cannon. Going from playing classes like Mesmer and warrior meant I’ve died and I need to learn the limits of my class but I can guarantee you I’ve done more dps than the groups I’ve joined – I did arah story, and when I died the bloated creeper actually started out healing the four other players in the party. Once they got me back up I was able to finish the fight with them. Like I honestly don’t think you realise how large the difference is between melee and ranged dps. You can already play ranged anyway, just don’t expect it to be even close to optimal.

Nobody is arguing for Ranged to be superior, just for an option in dungeons. As i said many bosses have ranged attacks and there is not taunt feature so ranged players are still at risk. They also wouldn’t get the short ranged heals/condi removal from other classes, just the boons. Besides dungeons are pretty much guard hammer prot spam and fire field might stack spam anyways. totally skillful! It’s just better for some people to play how they feel most comfortable than to force people into a style they simply aren’t effective with.

You don’t help less capable players by throwing in more and more crutch mechanics which dumb down the gameplay even more than it already is.

I really don’t understand why people don’t buy into the whole “build and spec for the content you are doing” ethos.

If you want boons, adapt and stand where the boons are being put out. Don’t moan about “but muh iconic bow” and expect boon range to be increased just so you can camp out at x000 range and safely spam damage.

Then don’t melee. Just don’t expect to be efficient. You can range in dungeons just fine. And maybe I’ve been in different pugs than you but I rarely see fire fields or hammer guardians, and when I run with guild meta groups we don’t have a hammer guard in dungeons either, so I don’t know what meta you’re looking at.

Thaddeus.4891:

A longbow build that can actually bring something to the party. Who can be against that?

The blind. The inflexible. The single-minded.
Take your pick.

There are many people that view any form of change as being instantly bad, negative. Something to be disregarded without full consideration. They’re so caught up in what is – that anything else is a potential threat.

Sure doesn’t help players to pigeon hole them into a boring way of playing to simply satisfy the needs of the forum meta worshipers. This is why I leveled a warrior to 80 so when I do dungeon I can just go in and kill and that’s it so I don’t have to deal with the constant meta this or meta that rants.

Yes prot hamer guards are pretty popular. same with firefield might stacking.

In my past few months pugging I have never seen a hammer guard or fire fields, or if they were they were never blasted. And I’ll say it again – you can range. Feel free to range. Just don’t expect to be efficient.

Sunshine.4680:

Sure doesn’t help players to pigeon hole them into a boring way of playing to simply satisfy the needs of the forum meta worshipers. This is why I leveled a warrior to 80 so when I do dungeon I can just go in and kill and that’s it so I don’t have to deal with the constant meta this or meta that rants.

Yes prot hamer guards are pretty popular. same with firefield might stacking.

What someone finds boring or not is besides the point. Regardless, you do not try and increase diversity or player ability by throwing ever more crutch mechanics into the mix.

Trying to put more diversity is not equal to pushing for more crutch mechanics or bring poor build up to the efficiency of good build.

Take for exemple Staff Elementalist. Its a range weapons, but its also one of the best DPS weapon in the game once you build it right. I play meta build and I like it. Everytimes someone try to change the game to make defensive gear viable over zerker gear, I call them out because defensive gear is by definition a suboptimal gear only for those that need defensive gear.

Its all about balance. I’m not saying make range weapon better only because I want to play range weapons, because actually I don’t really like that. I’m just saying, I’m sure there is a way to make more weapons and build viable. If we can, that’s great, if we can’t too bad, but not a big deal.

Would it be terrible, if a longbow could have a good DPS but only single target. Making the ranger a really good profession against boss, especially since it can give a good amount of vulnerability and it something that can lack in several party. Of course, someone using a Longbow in the rest of the dungeon would be pretty stupid, and you should carry another weapons like a Sword or a GS for the rest of the dungeon.

But this can’t be possible as long as the boons range is that small. But like I said, if it too wide or if its completely remove this would be bad too. A larger tactical circle within which you can move around and still receive boons. Something that the devs could use to make some boss that move around and where stacking wouldn’t be the best solution. Just to be clear, I like stacking when there is a challenge to it, but not when its braindead and its the only solution possible in most situation.

Again, its all about balance. I would like Condition Duration gear for a specific vulnerability or weakness build, I would like condition damage to be efficient in group content, etc. I like the current system, I just want more diversity to it. And I’m not talking about diversity in the way maha talk. Ya you can use range weapons or condition damage, but its kitten right now, so i don’t use those.

I don’t want to make Staff build viable in dungeon, its a support weapons for WvW and its just fine the way it is and should stay outside of dungeon for most situation. But there is no reason to ban all range weapons. We already have staff Ele and Scepter guardian can be good against very large mobs, so why not more?

maha.7902:

Every class is melee based except engineer. I also would like examples of using the environment to bypass mechanics. The point is, the game pushes melee play with the limited boon range and higher damage, I don’t see why players chilling in the back line should be rewarded in any way when they’re at no risk.

1) As you said, melee already has higher damage so extending boon range would not deprive melee of having an advantage for being close to the mobs.

2) One is not at, “no risk,” when in the back line.

We should maybe increase boon range a little in non-instanced PvE. This needs some future updates.

However, inside instanced PvE I see no reason why small boon range should be a requirement. It doesn’t serve any big purpose and successfully keeps the ranged combat outside of dungeons.

Why that range cannot be 1500 for example? I mean, maybe not boons spreadable across whole dungeon, but the small range requirement is just archaic.

It doesn’t stop bearbows from standing outside of boon range anyway. So we might just increase the range so they don’t hamper the group dps that much and actually get boons too.

I believe that ANet by the time of 2 years already knows some tricks how to engage ranged combat into the fight, given there are hundreds of possible mechanics in other games.

See, Sunshine, the problem here is one of vantage point.

The people who run dungeons all the time, they want to be done with the dungeon as fast as possible, and the way to do that is stack. Maybe they’re not even running a single dungeon. Maybe they want to do a range of dungeons to get some money and they might be able to do an extra dungeon or even two if everyone is on the same page. It makes running dungeons much faster and more efficient.

Then there are people who enter dungeons casually to do the dungeon for the sake of doing the dungeon. They’re not in as much of a rush. They take their time. They chat with their friends. That’s the kind of runs I usually do.

But if we don’t say before hand we’re not stacking, everyone still usually does stack because after doing each dungeon literally dozens (if not hundreds) of times, it’s just not all that exciting to take my time.

But if people wanted to play a dungeon casually, non-meta, I’d be happy to go with them and range away with them, as long as I was having fun.

I have a foot in both worlds. lol

Azhure.1857:

Sunshine.4680:

Thaddeus.4891:

I really don’t think that removing the range factor would be a good idea. But boosting it to like 2000, 1500, 1000 range? Enough so that someone don’t need to be always stacked. Don’t also mean that stacking would be useless. For sPvP, i don’t know. 1000 range seem pretty good, but 2000 seem a bit too range in the small map used in sPvP. And I don’t really like that sPvP and the rest of the game have too much of different rules. So maybe 1000 range would be better.

The point is, its a step toward more diversity in meta build. I like that I can Hammer camp, use GS + Sw/F, or GS + Hammer or GS + Scepter and still do really good dmg (even if GS + Scepter is situational). I would like more good option that feel different. And for ranger its really, really limited. Why not work toward finding a nice for those weapons to make them useful? I would like to see the ranger longbow being one of the best Single Target in the game, while putting a good amount of vulnerability. A Sw/Warhorn + Longbow meta ranger would be nice too see. A longbow build that can actually bring something to the party. Who can be against that?

Anyway, I think that setting the range of boons and buff to something like 1000 range would bring a bit more tactical mobility, while not removing the fact that you need to stay relatively close to your teamates.

Could just make it so the changes only work in pve/dungeons and not spvp or wvw.

spvp maybe…. But WvW could use the changes.

You can’t separate the two different types of PvP as both are in the Mists. That is how the changes in the specific skills happen (PvE vs. PvP). it would be too onerous to separate the 2 types of PvP.

The assumption being made here is that players get mad at ranged because they don’t provide boons to the stack and that removing this would let players stay at range while still being helpful to the stack. But the one issue i still see with this is that, as far as stacking goes, of far greater importance seems to be the ability to group up your enemies.
Regardless of how much dps and boons you’re bringing, as long as you provide the possibility for enemies to scatter, people will still hate you for ranging.

Azhure.1857:

Are you seriously trying to say that the Ranger profession isn’t iconic and known to be “range based”. Just because it has the ability to use melee weapons, doesn’t mean that its a primary weapon type for the profession. …. That because of cheap combat/game mechanics the Ranger now has to melee and view its bows as equally cheap toys?
I’m not a Ranger main… but I feel the need to speak up for them in this.

Ranger melee weapons were not created as “primary” weapons. If you take a look at Greatsword and Sword you’ll see that these weapons have very strong defensive factor included in skills.

They both have some mobility but also a lot of evades, blocks.

In case of Greatsword, we see it pretty clearly. Auto-attack having evade, a short cd block with knockback+optional cripple, mobility, small CC(pet connected) and one burst ability.

In case of Sword, two of three abilities are defensive. Chain attack was most likely designed for Beast Mastery since it cripples (making pet land hits against mobile targets) and buffs it with Might. It doesn’t stack vulnerability, apply DoTs.
Second ability has nothing to do with damage. It’s a short cd evade with bonus cripple, second time. With Leap. How many on-demand combo fields does ranger have ? Water Field. So Leap through Water field, healing you and your pet, stationary, perfect for fighting with chain attack inside it.
Third ability, longer evade and poison. Tell me that it isn’t defensive.

Conclusion: Ranger’s weapons were designed as secondary, defensive melee option in mind. At least when they were created. Not “primary offensive weapons”. It’s just that during some part of development, someone took a coffee break when designing a Ranger. It’s still going, seems like

Ashen.2907:

maha.7902:

Every class is melee based except engineer. I also would like examples of using the environment to bypass mechanics. The point is, the game pushes melee play with the limited boon range and higher damage, I don’t see why players chilling in the back line should be rewarded in any way when they’re at no risk.

1) As you said, melee already has higher damage so extending boon range would not deprive melee of having an advantage for being close to the mobs.

2) One is not at, “no risk,” when in the back line.

Aggro the champion orrian warrior in arah, range it. Next time around, melee it. Range is literally brain afk, it’s not even remotely challenging. This is nothing to do with depriving melee of advantages, it’s to do with not rewarding inefficient play styles.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Azhure.1857:

Sunshine.4680:

Thaddeus.4891:

I really don’t think that removing the range factor would be a good idea. But boosting it to like 2000, 1500, 1000 range? Enough so that someone don’t need to be always stacked. Don’t also mean that stacking would be useless. For sPvP, i don’t know. 1000 range seem pretty good, but 2000 seem a bit too range in the small map used in sPvP. And I don’t really like that sPvP and the rest of the game have too much of different rules. So maybe 1000 range would be better.

The point is, its a step toward more diversity in meta build. I like that I can Hammer camp, use GS + Sw/F, or GS + Hammer or GS + Scepter and still do really good dmg (even if GS + Scepter is situational). I would like more good option that feel different. And for ranger its really, really limited. Why not work toward finding a nice for those weapons to make them useful? I would like to see the ranger longbow being one of the best Single Target in the game, while putting a good amount of vulnerability. A Sw/Warhorn + Longbow meta ranger would be nice too see. A longbow build that can actually bring something to the party. Who can be against that?

Anyway, I think that setting the range of boons and buff to something like 1000 range would bring a bit more tactical mobility, while not removing the fact that you need to stay relatively close to your teamates.

Could just make it so the changes only work in pve/dungeons and not spvp or wvw.

spvp maybe…. But WvW could use the changes.

You can’t separate the two different types of PvP as both are in the Mists. That is how the changes in the specific skills happen (PvE vs. PvP). it would be too onerous to separate the 2 types of PvP.

You’re probably right.

No, but change ranger “fortified bond” to works both ways, whenever ranger or his pet gain a boon, it shares. Then a ranger with longbow and a melee pet will gain the stacked boon his pet gained at least. Only spotter is not fully shared….

Crossaber.8934:

No, but change ranger “fortified bond” to works both ways, whenever ranger or his pet gain a boon, it shares. Then a ranger with longbow and a melee pet will gain the stacked boon his pet gained at least. Only spotter is not fully shared….

Good idea.
However this isn’t just about rangers. They’re just the primary example.

Azhure.1857:

In a fantasy game, like GW2, when the average person pictures a Ranger profession. What weapon do you think they most often view them as using/wielding?

Ranger ? Two scimitars .. what else ?

the distance of boons is part of the balance and design of using them. What you can ask for is other skills/combo methods that have a different positional strength.
Aka, some boons/combo could apply their effects in non pbaoe ways.

Rym.1469:

Azhure.1857:

Are you seriously trying to say that the Ranger profession isn’t iconic and known to be “range based”. Just because it has the ability to use melee weapons, doesn’t mean that its a primary weapon type for the profession. …. That because of cheap combat/game mechanics the Ranger now has to melee and view its bows as equally cheap toys?
I’m not a Ranger main… but I feel the need to speak up for them in this.

Ranger melee weapons were not created as “primary” weapons. If you take a look at Greatsword and Sword you’ll see that these weapons have very strong defensive factor included in skills.

They both have some mobility but also a lot of evades, blocks.

In case of Greatsword, we see it pretty clearly. Auto-attack having evade, a short cd block with knockback+optional cripple, mobility, small CC(pet connected) and one burst ability.

In case of Sword, two of three abilities are defensive. Chain attack was most likely designed for Beast Mastery since it cripples (making pet land hits against mobile targets) and buffs it with Might. It doesn’t stack vulnerability, apply DoTs.
Second ability has nothing to do with damage. It’s a short cd evade with bonus cripple, second time. With Leap. How many on-demand combo fields does ranger have ? Water Field. So Leap through Water field, healing you and your pet, stationary, perfect for fighting with chain attack inside it.
Third ability, longer evade and poison. Tell me that it isn’t defensive.

Conclusion: Ranger’s weapons were designed as secondary, defensive melee option in mind. At least when they were created. Not “primary offensive weapons”. It’s just that during some part of development, someone took a coffee break when designing a Ranger. It’s still going, seems like

actually, GS was nerfed in beta, it was a lot stronger before.

ranged damage is not supposed to be optimal direct dps in this game, if it was, it would be OP. it partially self tracks, it reduces your need to evade (which means less loss of dps) and its easier to do.
If they were going to give big dmg to some ranged abilities, it would have to lock down your movements or require heavy set up, or possibly make it more avoidable from certain ranges. As well they would have to design enemies that could take advantage of your lack of movement or required set up.

until these type of mechanics are in place ranged weapons can only offer fairly good dmg with low risk, and strong utility. Otherwise they will be OP, and the easiest answer for many encounters.

Make boons without range is not a good idea (balance in pvp, or consistency between pve and pvp). What would be better would be the introduction of more offensive debuffs (not to be mistaken for conditions).

Right now the balance is 9 offensive buffs (might, fury, spotter,frost spirit, empower allies, banners, venoms and quickness) versus 2 offensive debuffs (vulnerability and signet of vampirism).

Debuffs have the advantage of ignoring distance but they come at the price that they are linked to the enemy and not the allies. Perfect for ranged characters to give and receive.

For me, the underlying frustration of the Ranger class is I wish it were more useful, like it was in GW1. I have fond memories going in Barrage groups through Urgoz, for instance. In general I like a ranged profession. But GW2 forces me into melee to be effective. I have ten characters across every profession, but it seems like if I want to experience higher level content I need to rely on my warriors and guardians. This is fine, to an extent, but at a certain point I have to wonder why Anet even bothers with other professions at all? And quite honestly, I don’t find playing Guardian or Warrior particularly interesting or challenging, and I don’t really see the mechanic of stacking a strategy that really deserves defending. It’s obviously the meta for most higher level content, but its also boring as hell. Even the abominable trinity is more interesting, and I hate trinity gameplay. The problem with the Ranger and the contradictions within the class are emblematic of a larger problem with the game. GW1 had some amazing class synergies, depending on the period of its life, GW2 so far has had just one.

If everyone bunches up (I can’t help but associate “stacking” with “get in that corner”), they get to share boons, combo fields and rally in case someone gets downed.
It took us 1 dungeon to figure this out.

Even when I used a scepter on my necro, I’d stand right next to the warrior and guardian. So did the mesmers. Because once again, being surrounded has its advantages with the only downside being cleaving attacks.
Even when fighting Frost (cm p1) it’s better for everyone to be at melee range and turn around him, instead of being spread out and having the aggro changed without a warning.

As for people claiming that being at 1500 range is still being in danger. If you are at 1500 range from the boss, there’s a reason : he isn’t targeting you (or he can’t reach you). A lot of bosses don’t even have attacks that can reach at 1500.

One of the things I hate the most with PuGs isn’t that they aren’t using optimal builds (or that they have no kittening idea how to play the build they got on youtube), but that they are afraid of danger. They’d rather range than learn.

I can see the problems that come out of removing the distance limits on boons, but I would still greatly like to see encounters in dungeons where being a ranged character is actually beneficial in some way. Too many bosses in this game play like “MMORPG bosses,” rather than “videogame bosses.” More bosses should do something other than just stand there and swipe at whomever is closest. They should be more mobile, and more resistant to being kited into a corner and stacked on by burst damage. Think of cool bosses in old-school games — they would teleport to different places, leap around the room, shoot stuff at you from afar that you have to dodge, charge at you, and make you navigate the environment in order to get at a good place to hit them for a few moments.

Master Ranger Nente in AC Story Mode was pretty good for this. He would teleport to different places, and sometimes appear on that central platform that was not easy to get to for melee, but ranged damage could still hit him with no problems.

I’m not saying every fight should be a major pain for melee either, but at least bring some character, variety, and mobility to future bosses, please! Make it so the whole party can’t just stack in one spot the entire fight; while things are momentarily hectic for melee then the ranged people can still shoot while moving around. This also gives added value to condition damage, which also seems to be undervalued in PvE.

All things being equal, ranged damage doesn’t have to be on par with melee during “stable” moments where you can just wail on the boss — but a ranged-focused player should still have a role in a party. It’s like how single-target is good for some situations, and AoE is good for others. There should be a time and a place for everything. Unfortunately, I think it is to GW2’s detriment that there is no time nor place for ranged attacks, at least in dungeons.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

For me, the underlying frustration of the Ranger class is I wish it were more useful, like it was in GW1. I have fond memories going in Barrage groups through Urgoz, for instance. In general I like a ranged profession. But GW2 forces me into melee to be effective. I have ten characters across every profession, but it seems like if I want to experience higher level content I need to rely on my warriors and guardians. This is fine, to an extent, but at a certain point I have to wonder why Anet even bothers with other professions at all? And quite honestly, I don’t find playing Guardian or Warrior particularly interesting or challenging, and I don’t really see the mechanic of stacking a strategy that really deserves defending. It’s obviously the meta for most higher level content, but its also boring as hell. Even the abominable trinity is more interesting, and I hate trinity gameplay. The problem with the Ranger and the contradictions within the class are emblematic of a larger problem with the game. GW1 had some amazing class synergies, depending on the period of its life, GW2 so far has had just one.

I’ve soloed arah on warrior, guardian, Mesmer, ele, thief. Mesmers are like, a trash tier class so it’s not like you even need a good class to perform high level content. I think I have guildies who have soloed it on ranger too. If you want to be optimal, groups should be stacking as many elementalists as possible, the dps they can output can in some cases be superior to the buffs provided by a warrior with banners, and then most likely you want a defensive support class like guardian so that the 3/4 eles can burst bosses uninterrupted. In regards to ranged versus melee, you can use scepter on guardian or staff on ele (at <600 range, mind you, eles have a trait which gives them a damage modifier below 600) and still output very high dps.

No. Quit gimping your comrades by staying at max range when it isn’t sensible. Be fluid, dynamic. Move with the combat. Range to melee and melee to range.

Back and forth, as the situation warrants. Quit being an archer and start being a ranger.

People like the OP are why nobody likes rangers.

I like my rifle on my warrior, but do I go into dungeons and expect everyone to be OK with me sitting in the back and shooting the boss with it? No.

Thing is, aside from engineers, every other classes have better damage with melee weapons. And when it comes to ranged weapons, some have considerably worse damages than other professions.

Honestly, if you make me put a kittening scepter on my guardian as the only possible alternative, I’m going to burst.
I’ve become so kittened off at people ranging the dredge carrier during SE p3 that I prefer to take my engineer for this one.

You can melee and still need to move around. For example HotW p1 boss.

I do agree that most bosses should do more than be a big punching bag, but nothing will force people to say that during a particular event, “range will always be better than melee so matter how good you are.”
If a boss were to teleport, in order for range to be better, he’d have to move only as far as 1200 (knowing that Thieves can’t get past 900). 1200 isn’t a lot to run, especially if you have leaps/charge/swiftness/teleports.
A boss with deadly melee attacks but will only use ranged attacks if you range him ? … kind of the most obvious anti-melee mechanic. Which players will get around eventually.

If you want to use a bow, use a bow. But stand in melee range.
If your only goal is to deal the best amount of damage then choose the correct class/weapon combination.

Fyrebrand.4859:

I can see the problems that come out of removing the distance limits on boons, but I would still greatly like to see encounters in dungeons where being a ranged character is actually beneficial in some way. Too many bosses in this game play like “MMORPG bosses,” rather than “videogame bosses.” More bosses should do something other than just stand there and swipe at whomever is closest. They should be more mobile, and more resistant to being kited into a corner and stacked on by burst damage. Think of cool bosses in old-school games — they would teleport to different places, leap around the room, shoot stuff at you from afar that you have to dodge, charge at you, and make you navigate the environment in order to get at a good place to hit them for a few moments.

Master Ranger Nente in AC Story Mode was pretty good for this. He would teleport to different places, and sometimes appear on that central platform that was not easy to get to for melee, but ranged damage could still hit him with no problems.

I’m not saying every fight should be a major pain for melee either, but at least bring some character, variety, and mobility to future bosses, please! Make it so the whole party can’t just stack in one spot the entire fight; while things are momentarily hectic for melee then the ranged people can still shoot while moving around. This also gives added value to condition damage, which also seems to be undervalued in PvE.

All things being equal, ranged damage doesn’t have to be on par with melee during “stable” moments where you can just wail on the boss — but a ranged-focused player should still have a role in a party. It’s like how single-target is good for some situations, and AoE is good for others. There should be a time and a place for everything. Unfortunately, I think it is to GW2’s detriment that there is no time nor place for ranged attacks, at least in dungeons.

I agree with the boss mechanic needing more depth and variety.
One of my favorite bosses is a simple Champ Abomination. I love watching it charge through a crowd, usually downing a dozen or more people. It makes me smile every time and actually keeps me on my toes. I also can’t help but cheer for the champion in a way, because its main victims are those players that are so set in a “melee or bust” mentality. The argument has been made that melee is just better because ranged can’t compare on a DPS level. Well neither does standing in front of a charging rhino on steroids, getting downed, and throwing dirt at said rhino. Another point is made that melee is more effective because of increased risk. Debatable. But I get what you’re saying, stupidity is risky.

I know this thread is primarily about applied boon distance. Just wanted to throw my two cents in there concerning better boss mechanics. Would LOVE for them to be more than giant hp pools.

If it’s on open PvE map, then sure, I don’t see why not.

In dungeon, pls no, the last thing you want is half melee and half range, there are many reason to stack, sharing boon is just one of them.

ps. People generally blame the range, cause they proc boss’s more dangerous attacks/mechanics, killing melees, then unable to anchor. NOT because they have less boons.

Azhure.1857:

One of my favorite bosses is a simple Champ Abomination. I love watching it charge through a crowd, usually downing a dozen or more people. It makes me smile every time and actually keeps me on my toes. I also can’t help but cheer for the champion in a way, because its main victims are those players that are so set in a “melee or bust” mentality. The argument has been made that melee is just better because ranged can’t compare on a DPS level. Well neither does standing in front of a charging rhino on steroids, getting downed, and throwing dirt at said rhino. Another point is made that melee is more effective because of increased risk. Debatable. But I get what you’re saying, stupidity is risky.

It’s been awhile since I’ve fought that champion, but isn’t there a huge tell to his charge ?

But I don’t laugh at people dying repeatedly in melee range during meta events. At first I don’t mind because we all had to learn. After a while it becomes perfectly clear that that kind of player isn’t paying attention to anything.