Guild Wars 2

In most dungeons and fractals (and some world bosses), for most situations, the answer to everything is “STACK”. I feel like this is ruining the fun of actually trying to find new strategies.

I know that I could choose to just “not do it” but whenever I get pugs in my group there’s almost always one who ABSOLUTELY want everyone to stack, serious business is serious and must be fast too… What is the point of giving us lots of bosses with different skills and strategies if you can finish most of them by just brainlessly stacking?

I know there are counter examples, the aetherblade dungeon is actually great because it’s not brainless but this is still most of the dungeons.
What do you think?

People will always take the path of least resistance.

I do not agree with stacking , but understand the game is almost 2 yrs old and if they made dungeons harder without making the rewards MUCH better people would simply stop doing them.

The rewards are not good enough to warrant a difficulty increase at this stage in the game.

Once again I do not agree with stacking , but its a bit to late to really do anything about it now.

Well if you keep ppl togeater they tend to be able to foces there attks even if there was no AoE cap in say a pvp setting stakcing is the best chose.

As for pve its better to stack up because of aoe heals and the ability to move out of the mobs path and keep a mob from going all over due to hate. Most mmorpgs have some type of stacking most of the time its a class type of stacking as in healers stand in one places dmg in another away from the healers and tanks away from the healers too but closer to the dmg so if the dmg pulls the mob due to hate the mob will not go out of the ranges of the tanks. Its all staking by a different name.

There was some kind of stacking in GW1 but it was structured. Like the tank would aggro, protected by the link monks and if someone was failing then the whole group could wipe (in elite area like DoA anyway)

in GW2 it’s really brainless stacking, it doesn’t matter what is your class or your role in the group, you stack and it works.

I think this has less to do with the content and more to do with you being peeved by the mindset of some of the other players.

Best bet for you is to find a guild of like-minded players and play only with them.

Deihnyx.6318:

There was some kind of stacking in GW1 but it was structured. Like the tank would aggro, protected by the link monks and if someone was failing then the whole group could wipe (in elite area like DoA anyway)

in GW2 it’s really brainless stacking, it doesn’t matter what is your class or your role in the group, you stack and it works.

Because there is no class type system every one is a tank dmg and support all at the same time. Its not brainless too if there an big aoe going down you need to move and there is a level of work to get a mob in a places where you want on the pve side. I would say its more brainless to have a formation then to have more of a flue staking group. That the ideal behind formation to remove though from where each person is because in a fight you cant always see where some one on your side is going to be.

Deihnyx.6318:

What do you think?

We think that this horse has been beaten to death in the dungeons subforum, and then beaten again many, many times.

This is entirely anets fault if the ai wasn’t so bad that when los they all clump up it wouldn’t be an issue

There are lots of factors that make stacking viable that probably won’t change -

- small revive range in dungeons
- small boon/buffing radius in dungeons
- small combo field radius
- small radius melee attacks with cleave give highest total dps
- small radius of defense skills like missile defense

and so on. Theoretically players should be using skills/timing to control enemy positions to maximize the small radius attacks but stacking and corners do it much easier.

I do PvE for the rewards, not the experience. This game’s strength is not its PvE, if you want good PvE go else where.

So OP, you should start by defining stacking. To me, stacking is fighting in close proximity to your allies, nothing more. The very notion of a patch to counteract people fighting in close proximity to each other is an absurdity.

Being fed up with people using LoS or something really cheesy like dodging into walls, fair enough, but proximity itself? Why don’t you just cut to the chase and demand the removal of melee?

Meh, you people who oppose stacking/skipping/berserker gear typically don’t do dungeons often enough to warrant a change in your favour.

I hope these topics at least serve as a means of getting like minded players together. PM each other, form a guild or something.

How about a new line of code that says something along the lines of

<if player doesn’t move x amount of range after x time-frame, then mob starts to kite you?>

Or perhaps monsters in dungeons could get telegraphed skills which required you to either dodge, move out of the way or die

Jahroots.6791:

Meh, you people who oppose stacking/skipping/berserker gear typically don’t do dungeons often enough to warrant a change in your favour.

I hope these topics at least serve as a means of getting like minded players together. PM each other, form a guild or something.

Some people would prefer a challenge. Do you really prefer running the same dungeon doing the same boring thing over and over, no challenge whatsoever? Without the challenge running a monotonous dungeon becomes “work”. This is bad… Increase the difficulty and reward the player accordingly for completing a difficult task.

Don’t stack … problem solved

^

It really is that simple. Suggestions like these are a bit selfish, imho. You want the entire game changed in a way that would upset a majority of players, when you could simply put some effort into grouping and play the way you want to.

Grimreaper.5370:

Some people would prefer a challenge. Do you really prefer running the same dungeon doing the same boring thing over and over, no challenge whatsoever? Without the challenge running a monotonous dungeon becomes “work”. This is bad… Increase the difficulty and reward the player accordingly for completing a difficult task.

Actually, no, I rather enjoy it. Having a ‘script’ to go by takes a lot of the guesswork out of running. Everybody knows what to do, most of ’em do it and in between phases we goof off, emote, have fun basically.

Rewards aren’t going to be increased. It would be nice to topple the almighty BLTC, but this game’s reward and loot structure is very firmly rooted in maintaining the economic systems. So you can forget about that. If you want a challenge for the sake of it, there are many options available to you that do not involve altering the game’s code at all.

I think that ANet isn’t really willing to increase the amount of meaningful rewards that people get and therefore people will not do difficult content. It’s just not worth it.

Deihnyx.6318:

In most dungeons and fractals (and some world bosses), for most situations, the answer to everything is “STACK”. I feel like this is ruining the fun of actually trying to find new strategies.

I know that I could choose to just “not do it” but whenever I get pugs in my group there’s almost always one who ABSOLUTELY want everyone to stack, serious business is serious and must be fast too… What is the point of giving us lots of bosses with different skills and strategies if you can finish most of them by just brainlessly stacking?

I know there are counter examples, the aetherblade dungeon is actually great because it’s not brainless but this is still most of the dungeons.
What do you think?

I have some news.

1.There are no new strategies for encounters that came out almost 2 years ago. It’s all been done.

2.Don’t get pugs in your group unless you want to deal with pugs. It’s as simple as finding like minded players and grouping up. Consider finding a guild that likes what you like.

3. It might come as a shock but people actually want to get loot fast. And are serious about it. If you can only do 1-2 hours of playtime per day you’re not going to want to spend half of it doing AC P1 by fully clearing it.

4.How many people do you see doing the Aetherblade dungeon? As many as there are doing the regular “stack and smack” dungeons?
There’s a reason for that – people like stacking and fast rewards.

Can we just accept it and move on?

KAJIMARU.3108:

Don’t stack … problem solved

As I said, not everyone has the chance to have 4 friends always ready to play with you, sometimes you have to get pugs. And it happens very often that said pugs only think of rushing and so stacking and all., and get aggressive/insulting if you don’t follow what they want.
Wanting to counter a lazy way to win isn’t absurd at all, GW1 did that a lot to farming areas, whenever it was too easy to farm → nerf.
Using AoE was OP in GW1 cause mobs wouldn’t move away → AI upgraded.

What’s the difference here? The game has been changed already because some part of the gameplay was broken. How is it selfish to ask for another fix of a broken gameplay?

Not everyone likes it lazy and brainless, some people actually likes some kind of challenge (like the aetherblade dungeon provided). Sorry guys and I’m not gonna abandon the PvE just because someone tells me to look away for PvE. I played GW1 mostly for the PvE. the PvE of GW2 is decent but not perfect so it’s perfectly normal that some people want to discuss about it.

TooBz.3065:

I think that ANet isn’t really willing to increase the amount of meaningful rewards that people get and therefore people will not do difficult content. It’s just not worth it.

This is pretty accurate. Anet’s constant attempts to drive people to buy gems with real cash has resulted in a player base that, for what appears to be a majority, is only concerned with the most efficient way to get what tiny scraps of reward they can get together. Thus we have zergs, stacking, speed runs, etc.

They’ll keep nerfing loot as they start to see sales drop, and that will force more players to take the easy route, but eventually they’ll simply leave, not ever opening their wallets again. Other games have picked up on this. NCSoft knows it. Why else would WildStar be making a point of talking about the loot you get from their raids? They know it’s a sore point for this game, and are trying to entice people to switch.

Sure, mob AI and some mechanics need to be looked at, but the primary issue is ease-of-grind driven by a lack of reward.

How about you just do the dungeon the way you enjoy.
Now with the LFG tool, you can advertise your party as a “Full clear” “Anti-stack” group and you will find like-minded people….eventually.
I personally would never join a group where people want to kill every trash mob or make a boss more difficult.
But instead of asking the devs to change the game to what you like, how about you play the way you like and let others play the way they enjoy.

Good luck to find such people at high level fractal.

When all you do is rushing dungeon and world bosses (spam key 1 for all world bosses but 1 now) then I honestly don’t see the fun anymore. If loot is all that matter then what was making guild wars in the past so special is dead.

Harper.4173:

Deihnyx.6318:

I know that I could choose to just “not do it” but whenever I get pugs in my group there’s almost always one who ABSOLUTELY want everyone to stack, serious business is serious and must be fast too…

2.Don’t get pugs in your group unless you want to deal with pugs. It’s as simple as finding like minded players and grouping up. Consider finding a guild that likes what you like.

As Harper says. If I wanted a no-stacking group i would not usually PuG. However, if I did PuG, and posted, “Anyone welcome, no stacking” and got that hypothetical one person the OP is referring to, I’d say, “We posted ’No stacking,” so if you want to stack, this is not the group for you. I hope you find another group and have a good run." If he did not take the hint and leave, then there’s always the kick function. After all, I doubt he’d hesitate to kick you if his preferences were in the majority.

Same old, same old. Don’t like it, avoid it. Start your own groups, kick people who can’t read and want to stack.

Also, if you must PUG it might help if you put ‘No Stacking’ first in the LFG listing, and any additional details after. That will definitely get the attention of the people you want, and probably serve as a flag for anyone else.

So, OP, on your way to work or school this morning did you drive at 5 mph or did you go the posted speed limit? I bet you went the speed limit and passed slow moving cars as well as taking the quickest route to work/school. Why? Probably to save time which, hey what a coincidence, is the same thing those of us in dungeons do. We save time. Pure and simple.

Stacking works for a number of reasons as outlined above in another post. When you have a person who needs to be hand-held through a dungeon, wouldn’t you rather they be with you rather than running all over the place making you find them to rez them? Since rezzing stacks for quickness, it’s much easier when everybody is on the same spot to rez the person who goes down due to being focused by the boss or doesn’t have the ability to dodge.

This selfish, it must be my way, of most posters on these forums is a bit much. You have the tools in-game to play the game how you want. You are not forced to stack, you have an lfg that allows you to post that you’re “not stacking”, you have the ability to kick anyone who doesn’t agree with that goal? What more can you want? Apparently you want everyone else in the game to have to play your way. This is a bit egotistical and selfish. There are people who don’t have the extra time to play that way, there are people who have other demands on their time by their guild or server. Just play it your way and leave the rest of us to play it our way.

Deihnyx.6318:

KAJIMARU.3108:

Don’t stack … problem solved

As I said, not everyone has the chance to have 4 friends always ready to play with you, sometimes you have to get pugs. And it happens very often that said pugs only think of rushing and so stacking and all., and get aggressive/insulting if you don’t follow what they want.

Have you tried saying in LFG something like:

NO STACKING, all welcome but attitude = kick

Many people won’t read (just look at the dungeons forum for qq’ing about people wearing defensive gear who join “zerk/exp only” groups), but you’ll have a good response when they want to stack.

One of my most fun Arah runs was in a group advertised as “attitude = kick, noobs welcome” … though none of us were noobs, we were also not elite (we didn’t melee Lupi, but we went through the content with standard strategies from that time, smoothly enough).

At the end of the day, a game is it’s OWN set of rules. With the exception of actual bug exploitation/cheating, anything goes.

Game balance should be a contest between player and developer. Players seek new strategies, the developers seek counter strategies, which in turn players seek counter-counter strategies; this is how GW1 developed and was balanced, and it worked well.

The “problem” with stacking, is that it is a great strategy within the rules we’re provided, that the devs have done nothing to provides mobs with a counter. If you don’t counter a strategy, why are players going to find seek new strategies? – The answer is they are not going to, and that is dangerous because it makes the gameplay stagnant.

Imagine a fighting game, where your opponent spams the same move over and over. Naturally there is going to be a counter-move YOU can spam, over and over too, which directly counters and will defeat your opponent every single time; of course this isn’t how a fighting game works, instead each move has a counter, penalties and payoffs, both combatants are constantly trying to guess their opponents next move and react, or try force the opponent off guard. So should be the case for bosses, if one strategy is backfiring, they should adopt another.

Deihnyx.6318:

In most dungeons and fractals (and some world bosses), for most situations, the answer to everything is “STACK”. I feel like this is ruining the fun of actually trying to find new strategies.

I know that I could choose to just “not do it” but whenever I get pugs in my group there’s almost always one who ABSOLUTELY want everyone to stack, serious business is serious and must be fast too… What is the point of giving us lots of bosses with different skills and strategies if you can finish most of them by just brainlessly stacking?

I know there are counter examples, the aetherblade dungeon is actually great because it’s not brainless but this is still most of the dungeons.
What do you think?

How about understanding game mechanics before come to the forums?

1. Skills that applies boons has limited range.
2. Melee does more damage.
3. Melee hits up to 3 target by default (aka cleave damage).
4. If a team mate goes down nearby it’s enough to press a button to ress him / her.

All of the above encourages to stay close to your buddies as close as you can.
Oh and don’t forget, making your own group with “no stacking,no skiping,all cutscenes,no berserker,roleplaying,iplayhowiwant,all is wellcome” is still not an exploit.
Hope it helped.

Stacking is droll and mindless after a while, but it definitely is an issue with the users too. Every time there is a special mechanic they’re (arenanet) using, users are definitely ‘special’ when it comes to them. I mean, they can’t even bother reading the boss’ descriptions for clear hints on defeating them. They run in like lemmings and ruin it for everyone.

The solution to stop stacking in a meaningful and fun way is really quite simple.

Dungeon boss’ AI needs a simple re-write;
Upon detection of stacking, instead of mindlessly coming after players, they could cease the pursuit and draw the players out, throw a grenade or some other anti-stack ability to force players to spread.

Ironically in one of the fastest dungeons (CoF path 1 and 2), nobody uses stacking. It’s strangely easy enough for people to relax and spread out without having to worry about min/maxing a fight.

Levelord.5746:

Ironically in one of the fastest dungeons (CoF path 1 and 2), nobody uses stacking. It’s strangely easy enough for people to relax and spread out without having to worry about min/maxing a fight.

every dungeon is like that if you want it to be.

things faster than cof2.

ac1
ac2
ac3
cm1
cm2
cm3
taup
tafw
se1
se3
cof1
cof3
hotw1
hotw2
arah3

and honorary mention to arah1 that is less than 10 seconds slower.

edit: I like the part where no one stacks on Slave Driver and Prison Warden though. nice touch.

To all of you stacking haters. Why exploiting the boss from range (makes the boss unable to use melee attacks on you) is better and not deserve to be changed?
Why cleric / soldier afk fights are good and not needs to change?
There are a lot of other and more intulting options that pugs could use, but instead that, they choose the berserker path, unable to play it and then come to the forums with nonsense complainings like this.
These kind of daily threads start to be getting boring and still has no meaningful reasoning behind it, just the usual “i don’t like it”. Don’t do it then and make your own parties with the lfg tool and kick if necessary. Problem solved.

Dalanor.5387:

Why exploiting the boss from range (makes the boss unable to use melee attacks on you) is better and not deserve to be changed?

Quoted for emphasis.

Deihnyx.6318:

KAJIMARU.3108:

Don’t stack … problem solved

As I said, not everyone has the chance to have 4 friends always ready to play with you, sometimes you have to get pugs. And it happens very often that said pugs only think of rushing and so stacking and all., and get aggressive/insulting if you don’t follow what they want.
Wanting to counter a lazy way to win isn’t absurd at all, GW1 did that a lot to farming areas, whenever it was too easy to farm -> nerf.
Using AoE was OP in GW1 cause mobs wouldn’t move away -> AI upgraded.

What’s the difference here? The game has been changed already because some part of the gameplay was broken. How is it selfish to ask for another fix of a broken gameplay?

Not everyone likes it lazy and brainless, some people actually likes some kind of challenge (like the aetherblade dungeon provided). Sorry guys and I’m not gonna abandon the PvE just because someone tells me to look away for PvE. I played GW1 mostly for the PvE. the PvE of GW2 is decent but not perfect so it’s perfectly normal that some people want to discuss about it.

Not finding people that want to play the game the same way you want to doesn’t mean the game should change to force people to play the way you want them to so you can have someone to play with.

GW2 has not changed a lot at all. And GW1 had plenty of farming areas. You seem to be making things up.

Regarding “lazy and brainless” – some people enjoy getting rewards fast and not spending an eternity in dungeons. Some people hate the aetherblade path.
Just don’t force people to play what you want and look for people that are interested in playing like/with you.

I like the dungeons the way they are

We have an anti-stacking patch implemented before.

It’s called LFG tool. It’s still beta, but it works. Another feature is called “kick”. Specify a condition and a player did not follow? Kick.

I’m fine with player stacking, it’s a tactical move that can often be beneficial. The only stacking related feature I want to see removed from the game are condition stack limits.

Hi,

We already have a thread about stacking here. We’ll therefore close this one and invite you to repost your opinions, comments and concerns in the discussion linked above.

Thank you for your understanding.