Q:
Attachments:
(edited by TheBravery.9615)
[Poll] Power creep vs nerf bat vs ...
I’d prefer if it was Equalised between the biggest offenders then Altered rather than the other options which have a Much greater impact on balance.
There’s a problem with that last image.
The riot way is essentially no different than the blizzard way. Last season was Assassin meta, then Cinderhulk, now is League of Marksmen. Nothing has been equalized. But i realize that image isn’t your work and you may not actually have experience with that.
Either way, i don’t particularly care how PvE gets balanced. If everyone is OP in it then they are also all balanced. For PvP however this is a problem and classes need to have distinct strengths / weakness and play patterns to be balanced on. That’s why im an advocate of balancing both modes separate of eachother. The play patterns that arise in PvP aren’t an issue in PvE and vice versa.
that comic is way old, Just had it sitting in my hard drive
And I think someone else had a thread featuring this strip a while back.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
PvE doesn’t need balancing at the class level .If an NPC is to hard fix the NPC. If the area is to hard fix the area.PvP shouldn’t have needed balancing if things didn’t get messed up in the first place.Only small tweaks were needed for most classes not the total freaking mess we have now.
PvE doesn’t need balancing at the class level .If an NPC is to hard fix the NPC. If the area is to hard fix the area.PvP shouldn’t have needed balancing if things didn’t get messed up in the first place.Only small tweaks were needed for most classes not the total freaking mess we have now.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand that imbalances in PvE lead to problems wherein class diversity becomes an issue which limits or removes classes from play. This is a Balance issue and that sort of issue does need to be addressed.
Oh but hey when that happens in your PvP meta you’re really quick to yell NERF X or REMOVE TANK/CELE amulet…..etc.
The problem is “equalization” and “power creep” both induce power creep. For the purposes of GW2, equalization to newly-added, overly-honed specs and weapons is power creep, it’s just a bit slower to climb. Until they add new elite specs, and if those are also overly-honed compared to the old, more equalization continues the creep.
A little savagery now and then is relished by the wisest men.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
The problem is “equalization” and “power creep” both induce power creep. For the purposes of GW2, equalization to newly-added, overly-honed specs and weapons is power creep, it’s just a bit slower to climb. Until they add new elite specs, and if those are also overly-honed compared to the old, more equalization continues the creep.
I could see this happening, but depends on whether or not the balance patch “over-refined” something. I guess a good way to approach would be to equalize first, then begin equal nerfbat on everything so things aren’t as lopsided as they are now.
I still think it’d be better to lean more heavily on nerfing elite specs than buffing base stuff.
Example: Anet decided that there was so much condi damage flying about that to make guardian less paper they doubled (1→2) the conditions cleansed by “smite condition” and reduced the cooldown on “contemplation of purity” (all condis→boons) by 30% with the last quarterly patch. Both are meditations, which are (and were) the single best tool for guardian survivability in a 1v1 scenario. Even after such a monsterous buff, it isn’t doing great. I use this example because I main guardian (familiarity) and you’re already working on that balance craft so this stuff may be on hand for you.
The thing to keep in mind about proper equalizing is that it isn’t meeting halfway between where things are and where creep leads, it’s about defining a certain threshold from the ephemeral nebula of “performance” where everything should fall. Ideally this would be powerful enough to be interesting, but weak enough to feel almost sensible (in a world with magical tomfoolery). Your best spell shouldn’t be making a nice pasta dinner, but you also shouldn’t be re-aligning 20 alternate universes every time you tie your shoes.
I think the threshold in this game falls somewhere near the better of the base spec tools, or maybe just above.
A little savagery now and then is relished by the wisest men.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
Power creep. As offense goes up reliance on personal skill versus in-game defense rises as well.
Power creep. As offense goes up reliance on personal skill versus in-game defense rises as well.
Power creep doesn’t only effect offense, it includes defense, sustain, mobility .. everything
Putting everything at an equal state is best. OR you can just be like Valve and make everything so OP that everything is….In an awkward way….Balanced. It doesn’t feel great to be blown up in 0.05 seconds, but it sure feels great to be on the wielding side of that giant flaming sword of insta-death.
If we look at the most underperforming classes, from bottom up:
1. Warrior
2. Thief
3. Mesmer
We see that warrior is at the bottom. So to reset all this power creep, we can balance everything around them and the other two classes. If you don’t agree with my class choices, that’s fine, it’s merely an example. From there, we can buff or nerf things as necessary to bring this game back to a good medium.
I remember a time when they said they wouldn’t be buffing ANYTHING. There was a long lull when no matter what the community said, they just wouldn’t give out buffs. Well that was like, 3.5 years ago. We’re here now, and need to go back to that strategy, as it was working for a long time.
I also remember a time when they said they’d never release an expansion, but hey, we can’t live in the past I guess.
Do you guys think meta-shifting (blizzard way) is a good way to balance at all? Why or why not?
Do you guys think meta-shifting (blizzard way) is a good way to balance at all? Why or why not?
No, because if people want to play a certain class that they’ve dumped 1K+ hours into, then it all of a sudden is obsolete for a full season, that’s going to feel like a big slight to a whole community of players. (Looking at you, Thieves and Warriors).
In a magic dream world of happy time balance, each class would be relevant in PvP and be brought to a team for various reasons. It should be more, “bring the player, not the class,” than we’re seeing now.
Equalised works best in my opinion, though it is the hardest to achieve.
Powercreep has many negative longterm effects on MMOs besides creating the threadmill of rotating buffs.
Pros:
- every one feels great playing their class once they “get their turn”. Well most people, some actually enjoy playing less desired classes or underdogs
- defintaly better than the alternative of nerfing classes (from a player fun perspective)
- arguably easier since you can just slap on more numbers or boost skills an undetermained amount since it doesn’t matter if you overbuff. You just cover your mistake by buffing other classes next rotation
Cons:
- severly shortens the lifespan of content. This goes double for a game like GW2 where you do not reset item and class progression every 3-6 months.
- does not actually fix the balance problem, just takes turns on who is overpowered thus continually putting people off
- very unhealthy for a steady and reliable pvp enviroment. Sure shortterm new builds emerge and things get shock up, but mid- to longterm no depth of strategies evolve. There is a reason to why riot and their moba are so successful.
Everything broken
Funny enough, this actually works since it removes a lot of factors which cause problems in balance. If every class can take out another class near instantly, does it matter how it happens (pvp perspective)? The focus shifts on other things like map and objective design and the player skill meta shifts from mastering your class to mastering the enviroment or objective. Pve wise it just makes old content boring.
Don’t think this would work to well in GW2 but it might. Seeing how arenanet removed tanky pvp amulets, they seem to have realised that the bigger the tankiness spread is, the harder the game mode gets balanced.
Power creep. As offense goes up reliance on personal skill versus in-game defense rises as well.
Power creep doesn’t only effect offense, it includes defense, sustain, mobility .. everything
This, also the reliance on in-game defense would at best only be applicable in a pvp eviroment leaving pve out to dry. Moot point anyway since as TheBravery pointed out, powercreep is not limited to offense.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)