Guild Wars 2

Funny how CollinJohanson avoids using ’’Expansion’’ and ‘’In progress’’ in the same sentence, allways dodging it with ‘’larger updates’’ and ‘’not of the table’’. A simple answere wether a boxed expansion is in the works or not is all the answere that is needed.

If you dont know what format you want to release the ‘’larger updates’’ in then heres a simple solution for you: let the community decide, hold a forum poll on wether the community wants it in boxed expansion format or living story format. But one can only dream.

I’m not a fan of the Living Story, at all. If this is their only means of content distribution, then sadly, i won’t be sticking around.

I like the Living Story updates … now. Now that with the latest one some of them are starting to make sense. But one thing I ***really*** miss, and you can only get it with an expansion, is the ‘whole new world’ feeling.

AcidicVision.5498:

Inspired.6730:

(snip)

(snip)

Interestingly, I almost like the sounds of your living world scenario better. But, either way you’ve created two possible scenarios that seem more biased than necessary.

Of course, I read what you posted and see new starting area and think…oh god, I hope not. I would much rather see level 81+ areas than new starting areas. Fortunately, they’ve already said there won’t be either new races or professions added (I forget which), and now we just need to hope it’s both. Five races and eight professions are enough.

New levels, new areas, new skills, new enemies, etc. can all be added and introduced through the living story. And, none of that would require that all the content in a new area would have to part of a living “story” even if was introduced in a living story update. So, if it is unfortunately part of the plan, a new starting are could be planned for a new race which could be added as a non-expansion update and introduced as part of a living story event.

They can also sell access to any possible new race, or whatever else, in the gem store instead of selling it in an expansion release. Or maybe, they can come up with an even better way of making money off a new race…Oh, I know, how about an RNG Tengu box with the top prize being you can create one.

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

People naturally hate change and still think of the old MMO mentality. Expansions are just as dated as paying for subscriptions.

Easy one.

Expansion = quality content coming out, when ready
Living Story = mediocre or worse content coming out due to schedule

Expansion = getting whole guilds back to the game for months
Living Story = getting less and less people back for days if you are lucky

Expansion = good advertising in the whole MMO community
Living Story = only some in Anets team and some hardcore fans really care

Expansion = Something you talk about still for years (Nightfall? EotN?) with story and immersion
Living Story = Very few updates are remebered like a halloween or winters day equivalent, but no immersion or story

Expansion = Full blown story lines in game giving rich playing experience
Living Story = some blogs on the web site for those who visit

I could go on, but I think the point is clear. LS, even when it is getting better can never hope to accomplish what good sound expansions can and will offer.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.

Well, so there will be new classes after all…cause, you know that’s something you traditionally find in expansions…

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.

Personally, I have no problem with LS implementing content that most would see as a traditional expansion. Take Factions for example. Instead of having to re-build the entirety of Cantha in one big push, and then get it to us, they could instead section it off to relevant content that the LS is focused on at the time.

From there, they can work on the next part while we do our content, explore, farm etc. for a few weeks until the next part is ready. As long as the end-game is still the same ( having access to the map/Dynamic Events ) it would be fine if done that way.

ilr.9675:

As a consumer, I just like having a choice in when (and therefore, how much) to pay for an expansion. I waited years and years to get Factions b/c it was in my opinion a poor expansion compared to Nightfall which to the opposite extreme I had purchased instantly when I found out what it included (customizable Heroes).

And before anyone says “Well this is free”, uhh uh, there’s no such thing as Free.
And If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. All the “Free content” they’ve been handing us lately has only made the Content I actually paid good money for worse, and worse …. and worse still.

There’s an old expression about something that’s free. “It’s not worth paying for”.

I think one thing that would help is to stop calling it a “living story”, because it’s neither. It’s what other games call a “live event”. One can argue it lasts longer than a live event but mores the pity. If it lasted a day or so, happened randomly and had greater reward potential, or titles, etc, it would be far and away a more anticipated and exciting occurance.

The biggest problem gaming companies face is we the gaming public are well versed, with many years of experience and know exactly what we want. The problem is gaming companies seem to ignore all that and tell us what we want and they are wrong 99% of the time. At least GW2 can’t be called a wow clone like most are.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

There’s an old expression about something that’s free. “It’s not worth paying for”.

That’s why it’s free, eh?

Vol.5241:

As opposed to Living Story, it keeps things fresh and keeps people playing. And they can also provide themed microtransactions to help supplement their revenue.

It isn’t. Read the forums, read the map chats. People start being bored heavily, because there is nothing fresh. Every living story feels the same. Some foes rain out of the sky to some or all areas, collect 250 marks to gain one skin most player feel is ugly. Those few that don’t buy it from the shop to prevent the hated RNG, and 14 days later… all over again. Where is this fresh in any way?

A guy coming back from 3 months of another game will only notice two or three skins he didn’t know before. The game has not evolved an inch. There is no such thing as an advantage for the game in the living story concept beside shop revenues for ArenaNet during the summer season where no other games will come out. Wait and see, what the LS will get ArenaNet when there is competition… an expansion could stand up to it. Living story won’t.

At best Celtic, the LS qualifies as a dlc.

VOLKON.1290:

Sure they are. That’s the thing most people don’t realize. They’re temporary, and they’re clutter. Look at WoW for example. Burning Crusade. Accept it or not, that was entirely temporary content once Lich King came out. But to make things worse it stuck around as clutter you’re forced to pass through as you race to level up. But the dungeons, the raids for BC… they stand abandoned, empty, their temporary moments of glory long lost and forgotten.

Expansions are temporary when the next one comes along and takes the players somewhere else.

They’re still there though. The content is still there. It doesn’t just vanish in two weeks. Stop trying to do these ridiculous mental gymnastics for the sake of being contrary. If you want to insult me by clumping me in with “most people”, at least come up with a concrete argument that doesn’t just play off of some whimsical garbage about “temporary moments of glory”.

It is undeniable fact that most content coming from actual expansions remains after the expansion is released, which is my entire point. This Living Story stuff, for the most part, does not remain. I would rather have content that I am actually able to go back and do than it being literally temporary, especially if they’re going to lace it with achievement points which are in turn directly tied to rewards.

This game needs an expansion. Something players can actually have fun progressing through. Living World things are usually too much of a chore and don’t add enough content to keep the player focused or immersed.

The last living world patch came online on the 20th and on the 22 i had completed it fully. And that’s because I didn’t even bother to focus on it.
Most content in one of these LW chapters can be completed in 6-7 hours after release provided it’s not somehow time gated.

Grileenor.1497:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

People naturally hate change and still think of the old MMO mentality. Expansions are just as dated as paying for subscriptions.

Easy one.

Expansion = quality content coming out, when ready
Living Story = mediocre or worse content coming out due to schedule

Expansion = getting whole guilds back to the game for months
Living Story = getting less and less people back for days if you are lucky

Expansion = good advertising in the whole MMO community
Living Story = only some in Anets team and some hardcore fans really care

Expansion = Something you talk about still for years (Nightfall? EotN?) with story and immersion
Living Story = Very few updates are remebered like a halloween or winters day equivalent, but no immersion or story

Expansion = Full blown story lines in game giving rich playing experience
Living Story = some blogs on the web site for those who visit

I could go on, but I think the point is clear. LS, even when it is getting better can never hope to accomplish what good sound expansions can and will offer.

Spot on, well said and explained!

Superfast.5901:

lol if you want huge expansions that pop out of nowhere suddenly, go play another game. the living story is amazing and perfect.. nothing like it, that’s what makes GW2 perfect and unique, you never know what new invasion/farm/achievements are coming

You ding-a-ling, this thread is basically about the lack of new land to explore. We need new places to go, there’s no denying it unless your head is a thick rock with the words “Property of ArenaNet” carved into it.

And GW2 ain’t perfect in many ways, seriously, are you secretly working for ANet and get paid to write this? Let me see your head!

I can see some people in here (such as Oxstar, above) acting hostile towards Colin. That’s not on. If that’s how people are going to behave, I’ll just turn this thread around and drive us straight back home! Colin’s talking directly to the community— that’s exactly what we want, we shouldn’t discourage it by being insulting.

OT: Look at it this way. An entire year would see 24 bi-weekly LS releases. A number of those would be linked around the same content (as with Flame & Frost; as with Queen’s Jubilee + Clockwork Chaos); a further number of them would be themed events (such as Halloween. Fun, I enjoy them, but they don’t expand the world).

Looking at the above, I can’t see how that model of delivery could give us the same sense of scale, exploration and novelty that comes with a traditional expansion.

I’m usually a very non-traditional person, but in this case, not so much. As I’ve said, though, Colin’s comment has reassured me a bit.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.

I just want to remind you Colin.
That the only thing we expect in an Expansion is Cantha and we as a community now take this as confirmation that Shiro Tagachi will face me once again.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Grileenor.1497:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

People naturally hate change and still think of the old MMO mentality. Expansions are just as dated as paying for subscriptions.

Easy one.

Expansion = quality content coming out, when ready
Living Story = mediocre or worse content coming out due to schedule

Expansion = getting whole guilds back to the game for months
Living Story = getting less and less people back for days if you are lucky

Expansion = good advertising in the whole MMO community
Living Story = only some in Anets team and some hardcore fans really care

Expansion = Something you talk about still for years (Nightfall? EotN?) with story and immersion
Living Story = Very few updates are remebered like a halloween or winters day equivalent, but no immersion or story

Expansion = Full blown story lines in game giving rich playing experience
Living Story = some blogs on the web site for those who visit

I could go on, but I think the point is clear. LS, even when it is getting better can never hope to accomplish what good sound expansions can and will offer.

Spot on, well said and explained!

Idk, RuneScape to this day is still one of the most popular MMOs on the market, and that game never had an expansion. It had some quite amazing updates which are remembered by all players and ex-players, and frankly some of the best lore and most memorable characters I’ve seen in any game (to this day I still tear up inside at the thought of Hazelmere).

LS can also be marketed well, like what they did with the pocketwatches for this LS, and in my experience with a lot of games working on the expansions model, you get guilds back for a few weeks, then everyone leaves again once they get through the expansions content, so the LS model might actually get people to stay for longer.

Having said that, I’m not sure why they aren’t working on an expansion as well, because people will pay for it. Perhaps its the cost. Also, I do agree that the current LS isn’t up to par with expansion content: the plot and lore so far has been rather shallow and the Aetherblades completely contrast with what the game’s lore and plot is about; we still lack a lot of core content updates like dungeons.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Grileenor.1497:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

People naturally hate change and still think of the old MMO mentality. Expansions are just as dated as paying for subscriptions.

Easy one.

Expansion = quality content coming out, when ready
Living Story = mediocre or worse content coming out due to schedule

Expansion = getting whole guilds back to the game for months
Living Story = getting less and less people back for days if you are lucky

Expansion = good advertising in the whole MMO community
Living Story = only some in Anets team and some hardcore fans really care

Expansion = Something you talk about still for years (Nightfall? EotN?) with story and immersion
Living Story = Very few updates are remebered like a halloween or winters day equivalent, but no immersion or story

Expansion = Full blown story lines in game giving rich playing experience
Living Story = some blogs on the web site for those who visit

I could go on, but I think the point is clear. LS, even when it is getting better can never hope to accomplish what good sound expansions can and will offer.

Spot on, well said and explained!

Idk, RuneScape to this day is still one of the most popular MMOs on the market, and that game never had an expansion. It had some quite amazing updates which are remembered by all players and ex-players, and frankly some of the best lore and most memorable characters I’ve seen in any game (to this day I still tear up inside at the thought of Hazelmere).

LS can also be marketed well, like what they did with the pocketwatches for this LS, and in my experience with a lot of games working on the expansions model, you get guilds back for a few weeks, then everyone leaves again once they get through the expansions content, so the LS model might actually get people to stay for longer.

Runescape is an oldschool “sandbox” mmo so it functions quite differenlty.

Ive never been sadder. I already hate the majority of living story content. To hear a lead designer say that we wont get a real expansion and continue with the living story strategy…infuriates me. So now they are on their true development cycle with the LS, we’ll see to what peaks they take it in the next month or two. Because the previous several months have been abysmal and laughable with poor story telling, temporary content, rng, disjointed story, lack of a real threat to tyria, lack of things that we are asking for, lack of dungeon mechanic revamping, etc.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Grileenor.1497:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

People naturally hate change and still think of the old MMO mentality. Expansions are just as dated as paying for subscriptions.

Easy one.

Expansion = quality content coming out, when ready
Living Story = mediocre or worse content coming out due to schedule

Expansion = getting whole guilds back to the game for months
Living Story = getting less and less people back for days if you are lucky

Expansion = good advertising in the whole MMO community
Living Story = only some in Anets team and some hardcore fans really care

Expansion = Something you talk about still for years (Nightfall? EotN?) with story and immersion
Living Story = Very few updates are remebered like a halloween or winters day equivalent, but no immersion or story

Expansion = Full blown story lines in game giving rich playing experience
Living Story = some blogs on the web site for those who visit

I could go on, but I think the point is clear. LS, even when it is getting better can never hope to accomplish what good sound expansions can and will offer.

Spot on, well said and explained!

Idk, RuneScape to this day is still one of the most popular MMOs on the market, and that game never had an expansion. It had some quite amazing updates which are remembered by all players and ex-players, and frankly some of the best lore and most memorable characters I’ve seen in any game (to this day I still tear up inside at the thought of Hazelmere).

LS can also be marketed well, like what they did with the pocketwatches for this LS, and in my experience with a lot of games working on the expansions model, you get guilds back for a few weeks, then everyone leaves again once they get through the expansions content, so the LS model might actually get people to stay for longer.

Runescape is an oldschool “sandbox” mmo so it functions quite differenlty.

You’d have to define sandbox for me, because RS was for me, the most linear MMO I’ve played.

And I’m not sure how it would work ‘differently’. It still has updates, patches and works on a subs/cash-shop model, like all MMOs out there. The only real difference between it and other MMOs is thakittens got a non-linear plot (as in, several different plots take place at the same time in the timeline) and thakittens browser-based.

@above

I actually quite like the LS idea. Expansions for me was always something which could go either way. One, it happens very slowly, and often you are practically forced to get through it really quickly due to things like your guild wants to start raiding. Two, since everything comes out at once, if the design direction went very wrong at the start of the production process, the devs have no time to correct it; in a LS model, you have the chance to change the design direction based on player feedback.

Taking the example of RuneScape again, constant updates was and is one of its major sellers, and as shown by its popularity despite it being a browser game, it clearly works. If Anet plays it right, given their team is much bigger than Jagex’s with more budget, and we got a client instead of Java/HTML5, they could pull off something amazing.

While I quite enjoy the 2 week releases as it is most definitely keeping the game “fresh” I would still want an expansion down the line.

I honestly don’t mind buying a few skins/minis every few weeks with the new releases, I get it, the game needs constant funding to pay for all the designers and the artists but at the same time the small releases will never equate to the same feeling as a new expansion.

Currently the LS is a great way to keep the world alive and keep the players interested but you cannot continue this model in the long run.
There seems to be a lack of testing which is resulting in a wide variety of broken mechanics, unintended money making farms which is starting to question the integrity of the game.

Now I know LS is a new idea that no other MMO has ever adapted and GW2 is doing a great job with content definitely improving with each release, so I say continue the 2 week release but dedicate a team of individuals to start working on Cantha.

Provide the players a date, “9-12 months from now we will release an expansion”
This will allow the company to generate revenue via the LS gem store releases and then they can boost their sales once again with the full fledge expansion.

Also Please provide permanent content while we wait for expansion example:
Underworld, Fizzure of Woe -
These were areas that have been lost, previously a spirit of a god would grant us access, maybe now an Asuran portal?
I’m an sure the Order of Whispers might have some knowledge how to access these areas.
These elite areas is what is needed to start building a true end game.

Living Story updates are snacks, Expansions are meals. No matter how many snacks you cobble together on a plate, calling them a meal is a stretch and not what most people expect.

darkace.8925:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out.

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

So when juxtaposing the Living Story with, say, Guild Wars: Factions or Guild Wars: Nightfall you really see no difference other than release schedule?

Factions and Nightfall weren’t expansions. Eye of the North was an expansion. Factions and Nightfall were stand alone games, which you didn’t need Prophecies to purchase or play.

Anet has said from the beginning they would never do this again. The reason given was that when Factions came out, it divided the playerbase. They won’t do that again.

The Living Story is something new…and there are longer term goals, bigger projects Anet devs are working on, quite apart from the Living Story content. When those bigger pieces are finished, Anet has to decide how to integrate them into the game.

But Factions and Nightfall aren’t expansions and can’t be seen that way. They’re full games and either way, we won’t be seeing that style of release in the future.

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out.

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

So when juxtaposing the Living Story with, say, Guild Wars: Factions or Guild Wars: Nightfall you really see no difference other than release schedule?

Factions and Nightfall weren’t expansions. Eye of the North was an expansion. Factions and Nightfall were stand alone games, which you didn’t need Prophecies to purchase or play.

Anet has said from the beginning they would never do this again. The reason given was that when Factions came out, it divided the playerbase. They won’t do that again.

The Living Story is something new…and there are longer term goals, bigger projects Anet devs are working on, quite apart from the Living Story content. When those bigger pieces are finished, Anet has to decide how to integrate them into the game.

But Factions and Nightfall aren’t expansions and can’t be seen that way. They’re full games and either way, we won’t be seeing that style of release in the future.

Not to argue semantics, but how where they not expansions? The fact that they were capable of being played as standalone campaigns doesn’t change the fact that they expanded the game. Both added a new campaign and plenty of content for players who chose to use their existing character(s). If that’s not an expansion, then what is?

Vol.5241:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vol.5241:

Not everyone will stick around to wait for an expansion.

To be fair, the Living Story isn’t keeping every single player, either. There are as many things to dislike about temporary content as there is to dislike about long waits, although many an MMO has done well without bimonthly minigames.

One of the higher ups (not Colin, I believe Mike Z) said a few months back that their internal metrics show that the playerbase plays more with bi-weekly releases than monthly releases. That’s why they announced the rate of content releases.

And now we have confirmation today from Mr Cartwright that the playerbase is on the rise

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/23/4650486/guild-wars-2-player-base-is-on-the-rise-after-post-launch-slump

So I think Living Story is more of a success than a failure that is portrayed around here

I would agree with their research, as I’m a player who likes to blaze through new content fast, thus forcing myself to slow down, or else I’ll have nothing to do until the next month. With a bi-weekly release, I’ll constantly have something to do.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out.

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

So when juxtaposing the Living Story with, say, Guild Wars: Factions or Guild Wars: Nightfall you really see no difference other than release schedule?

Factions and Nightfall weren’t expansions. Eye of the North was an expansion. Factions and Nightfall were stand alone games, which you didn’t need Prophecies to purchase or play.

Anet has said from the beginning they would never do this again. The reason given was that when Factions came out, it divided the playerbase. They won’t do that again.

The Living Story is something new…and there are longer term goals, bigger projects Anet devs are working on, quite apart from the Living Story content. When those bigger pieces are finished, Anet has to decide how to integrate them into the game.

But Factions and Nightfall aren’t expansions and can’t be seen that way. They’re full games and either way, we won’t be seeing that style of release in the future.

Not to argue semantics, but how where they not expansions? The fact that they were capable of being played as standalone campaigns doesn’t change the fact that they expanded the game. Both added a new campaign and plenty of content for players who chose to use their existing character(s). If that’s not an expansion, then what is?

An expansion isn’t a full game by definition. In Anet’s own press they said they wouldn’t be releasing that “style of expansion” if you will. You can argue over the word expansion if you like, but no other MMO has stand alone games like Guild Wars 1 did. When an MMO releases an expansion, it’s not stand alone, it’s an add on. An expansion expands a game…that is..it takes what’s there and adds to it. But when you release a game that stands alone, it’s not usually considered an expansion in the industry. It’s considered a separate game. I mean if you can buy Factions without playing Prophecies at all, then you haven’t expanded anything…because it stands alone.

Regardless of what you call it, my point was Anet won’t be doing that, because they don’t want to divide the player base. It’s not going to happen. What they will release is expansions more along the lines of Eye of the North, so that’s what you’d have to compare the new expansions to, not full games.

We can argue about the word, but the word isn’t really what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Anet making a statement to excludes that type of expansion (if you still want to use the word) from consideration.

I like the Living Story for what it is…something “new” to do every so often.

What I would really like, tho, is some of that content to stick around that doesn’t involve mini-games or fluff.

I would have loved to see the dungeon from the Flame and Frost story stay, and I would love to see the Pavilion stay.

WHat I really want, tho, is more territory to open up. See what’s up in the Isles of Janthir, or go back to the Crystal Desert. There’s a lot of the existing map that I would like to see.

Having said that, I would hope that they don’t implement it like they did with Southsun Cove.

I would rather see them come up with “There’s a new land and new peoples to the North that needs to be explored” with new hearts, DEs and races. This is the type of content I hope they introduce bit by bit. Better than paying another (insert amount here) for another box. It’s just not as fun if my friends can’t or won’t buy the “new” box.

Vol.5241:

I really don’t see what the fuss is about.

The only difference between an expansion and the living story is how the content gets pushed out

Expansion – content comes out all at once
Living Story – content is gradually pushed out

People naturally hate change and still think of the old MMO mentality. Expansions are just as dated as paying for subscriptions.

Honestly those two additions of content are nothing alike, nothing..

I’d be a lot more confident in this if the living story stuff we’ve had so far have resembled expansion content quality in any way. Look at Southsun in comparison to the rest of the zones in the game; first implementation was so bare bones, and after 2 living story patches focusing on it, it STILL doesn’t have skill points/vistas/hearts, nor count toward map completion.

For Southsun Cove to be a truly viable and well-used map, they would have to tone down the mobs, revamp the DEs to be small-group friendly, and add more WP, vistas, skill challenges, and hearts for sure. I’m not really sure why they wanted to sink time and effort into a map no one is going to use. That’s just bad business.

Vayne.8563:

Regardless of what you call it, my point was Anet won’t be doing that, because they don’t want to divide the player base. It’s not going to happen. What they will release is expansions more along the lines of Eye of the North, so that’s what you’d have to compare the new expansions to, not full games.

We can argue about the word, but the word isn’t really what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Anet making a statement to excludes that type of expansion (if you still want to use the word) from consideration.

I disagree with that. Anet have said that it’s unlikely, but I am sure they are keeping their options open. Unlikely doesn’t mean never ever no way. It means they will try other things first.

It seems obvious by now that Anet are not the kind of people that set things in stone.

As far as dividing the population, that has already happened as it is. The world is too big for it not to happen and it doesn’t really matter if it’s another continent that’s added or if there are more areas added to the map as they have been doing.

My guess is that this is one of the reasons they tried fleeting content. Because you bring it in and take it out and the world is still the same size. There are plenty of threads about the downside of this approach and Anet is already changing their approach.

I am willing to go as far as to say that if at some point the game would lose too many players and a main concern would be the lack of actual expansions they would make one. They prefer not too, that much is clear, but Anet never says never.

The reason why so many people are against updates through living world is because the living world hasn’t proven itself to many yet. By now people have connotated living world with quests/achievements and so far it has really been lacking what expansions give and we players look forward to; new skills, new classes, new races and such. So far the living world has progressed a story and that is cool and all but it hasn’t really given players a sense of progression for themselves too.
Once living story starts pumping out those kinds of updates players may start accepting it more.

Penguin.5197:

The reason why so many people are against updates through living world is because the living world hasn’t proven itself to many yet. By now people have connotated living world with quests/achievements and so far it has really been lacking what expansions give and we players look forward to; new skills, new classes, new races and such. So far the living world has progressed a story and that is cool and all but it hasn’t really given players a sense of progression for themselves too.
Once living story starts pumping out those kinds of updates players may start accepting it more.

I bet people will start leaving moar

xephire.8324:

I bet people will start leaving moar

For getting new content?

Penguin.5197:

xephire.8324:

I bet people will start leaving moar

For getting new content?

You call those “new content” even twilight has better content

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Regardless of what you call it, my point was Anet won’t be doing that, because they don’t want to divide the player base. It’s not going to happen. What they will release is expansions more along the lines of Eye of the North, so that’s what you’d have to compare the new expansions to, not full games.

We can argue about the word, but the word isn’t really what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Anet making a statement to excludes that type of expansion (if you still want to use the word) from consideration.

I disagree with that. Anet have said that it’s unlikely, but I am sure they are keeping their options open. Unlikely doesn’t mean never ever no way. It means they will try other things first.

Our little side-discussion might be a little misleading; they might release a traditional expansion like WoW’s Mists of Pandaria, but they’ll never release a stand-alone campaign in the vein of Factions or Nightfall.

xephire.8324:

You call those “new content” even twilight has better content

Not really, Its content that people always look forward to.

But she does have a better plot than guild wars though

I dont consider majority of focus on living story to be “making the core of world better:”. Living story, largely, sucks.

There’s nothing quite the same as a whole new map to explore. Finding the next waypoint, the next vista, the next town becomes a game in itself. Especially if you need to gain some levels and fight some baddies to get there.

I know a lot of people only care about the end-game, but exploring new things is what makes me buy new games, whether MMOs or single player RPGs like Skyrim.

Try not to confuse players attending an event with it being popular. Many are just bored and will either go see it, or log off. That said all our back and forth here amounts to words on a page. What will be telling is the revenues generated. After the jubilee and the Benny Hill zergs, most players are going to have a lot of gold to turn into gems. Which does not make any money for Anet/Ncsoft. Not good. An expansion brings a new influx of cash. Conservatively if the current box owners bought an expansion, for say 29.95, You’re looking at about 84 mil in revenues. The living story costs them money and unless the bltc sales jump because of it, they aren’t going to see anywhere near that after a year of updates.

darkace.8925:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Regardless of what you call it, my point was Anet won’t be doing that, because they don’t want to divide the player base. It’s not going to happen. What they will release is expansions more along the lines of Eye of the North, so that’s what you’d have to compare the new expansions to, not full games.

We can argue about the word, but the word isn’t really what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Anet making a statement to excludes that type of expansion (if you still want to use the word) from consideration.

I disagree with that. Anet have said that it’s unlikely, but I am sure they are keeping their options open. Unlikely doesn’t mean never ever no way. It means they will try other things first.

Our little side-discussion might be a little misleading; they might release a traditional expansion like WoW’s Mists of Pandaria, but they’ll never release a stand-alone campaign in the vein of Factions or Nightfall.

Right, that’s what I’m saying…because that’s what Anet has said.

I can understand why ArenaNet doesn’t want to do an expansion at the moment.

They have alot of updates planned for 2013 in their Looking Ahead: Guild Wars 2 in 2013 blogpost as well as projects mentioned in the past, listed in the wiki itself under Upcoming changes and features

The Living Story updates are fun and we’re lucky to be getting these content patches while they implement these things into the game, but I doubt they’ll be able to continue the player character’s personal story through the living story. I doubt they’ll be able to cover the events from their article titled; The Movement of the World in their living story.

If you asked me, I’d think all of these living story updates will lead up to an expansion since during the BWE’s, and I don’t know where I got this information, they said the Ring of Fire island chain and the Crystal Desert were going to be added into the game as free updates. When ArenaNet introduced Southsun Cove we had events that helped the Consortium and the Lionguard settle down in the island… cutting down trees and building bridges. Just imagine the same scenario in the Ring of Fire islands, that island chain is the closest we’ll ever be to Cantha before sailing there on a boat.

Yeah yeah, Cantha. I know some tinfoil hat conspiracy nuts out there think ArenaNet and NCSoft devs are out to delete Cantha from the Guild Wars universe but I think it’s just rumors blown out of proportion. Maybe they’ll expand north towards the Isle of Janthir and make an expansion focused on the White Mantle and the Mursaat, or maybe into some other part of Tyria we haven’t been to yet, or maybe into Elona when Queen Jennah allows passage through the Desert Gate in Ebonhawke or whatever it’s called.. or maybe since the Pact are still a functioning union of all three orders.. the Order of Whispers will allow us to travel to Elona using their super secret method that has kept them save from Zhaitan’s forces, Kralkatorrik’s minions, AND Palawa Joko’s undead, who knows! But I think these living story updates are leading into something big that will reveal itself once the living story concludes.

Until then I agree with their choice to NOT focus on an expansion right now.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.

Can you list the features that you think we’re expecting? Will Living Story add new races, new classes, zones, entire new personal campaigns? The track record isn’t that bright so far.

silvermember.8941:

timidobserver.7925:

Anet, the living world is all good, but it doesn’t qualify as expansion content.

I don’t think you read it currently. He was saying he wants to use the Living story to introduce new areas not that they are expansion content. Besides if they keep improving LS content like they did between aetherblade and this invasion, LS could replace the really boring DE we currently have.

As it stands, Living Story doesn’t even come close to the level of content that is expected in an expansion. The quality is fine and pretty impressive for free content that they are adding incrementally. However, no content that is even remotely similar to the stuff that is being added in the living story qualifies as expansion-like content to me.

Destai.9603:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.

Can you list the features that you think we’re expecting? Will Living Story add new races, new classes, zones, entire new personal campaigns? The track record isn’t that bright so far.

He doesn’t have to list it since the information about this stuff was in his blog post.

The teams working on the living story are NOT the teams working on longer term content. New zones…new races, perhaps even a new profession (which would be a heavy profession if they made one).

The four living story teams are quite apart from the other developers working on content. The decision on how to release the bigger content patches has not been made yet, but they’re thinking about releasing it through the living story mechanism when those things are done.

Personally I would love to have an actual expansion that gives us new races/profession (like the dervish ) and a new world/areas to explore. Instead of just one little area at a time with the living story.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the living story and I hope that it continues because I look forward to what will be next with it, but I hope they do put out an expansion since it is easy to get bored after you hit 80 and explore the whole map. (at least I think so)

It’s my hope they introduce an expansion too, in addition to the living story stuff. I’d also like it if they could make the living story stuff last longer, because once every two weeks is pretty tough on us obsessive people. lol

I like Living Story. I think it’s a great way of adding content and keeping the player base interested while waiting for something bigger, but as several people said, it can’t match a full expansion.

Let’s be realistic, there is no way ANet could actually bypass releasing an expansion to focus on Living Story. Again, I like Living Story and while I consider it to be just beyond its infancy state right now, I think it has monster potential. I really do. But say, there no is possible way that ANet could introduce a new Elder Dragon with Living Story. And if they chose to do it, it would have to be temporary, which in my opinion would be bad, unless done in a very special and very, very well executed manner.

To put it simply, on a realistic point of view, ANet can’t expect to add major content to the game with only the Living Story. Zhaitan was only the first Elder Dragon to awaken, there are multiple signs of the others becoming more and more active throughout several zones of the game, and one can’t expect to add any content featuring an Elder Dragon with a temporary patch/storyline. And there is absolutely no way that no other Elder Dragons are going to be introduced, that would be completely ludicrous.

Therefore, I’m convinced there will be an expansion, only perhaps not for another year or so.

I wouldn’t mind this if we got more content like Mad King’s Clocktower and Queen’s Gauntlet.