Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen them say they wouldn’t bring out the other continents. Most recently Mike Z has said he’d like to. Not sure where I saw it, but that’s the latest.

Well, they did talk a lot more to the community way back when. A lot of this is lost by now perhaps, but it came up way before GW2 was released. It was part of their design because there were discussions at the time of how people were spread out over the continents. This started before EotN was out because that’s why EotN was part of Tyria again and not another new continent. Then they also said they wanted to change their approach with GW2 when it was announced.

There are two difficulties here. A lot of the people that worked at Anet on GW1 and the beginnings of GW2 are no longer there. I am sure the new team doesn’t feel responsible for what was said back then but people who saw these interviews do remember them.

Secondly, I fully understand that over time things change. What’s annoying though is that they say one thing and then years later act like they never said it or give an “explanation” of what they actually meant. Or they just stay silent on a subject and suddenly out of the blue their approach has completely changed. I know a lot of people still like to bring up the manifesto but I am talking about stuff before that.

Now I don’t mind if they want to bring out expansions after all, but when I look back at the reasons EotN was not a new continent and how they said multiple times back then they didn’t want to make that mistake again because it spreads people out too much, you can understand that this is a surprise.

To be honest, people are already spread out too much and then funneled in a couple of activities like fractals and champion runs. So new expansions of new continents won’t cause that problem.

I do wonder now though what they would do for example if they were to bring out Cantha. I guess it will be all level 80 zones…..or wait a minute, perhaps it’s how they will do the level cap raise…

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen them say they wouldn’t bring out the other continents. Most recently Mike Z has said he’d like to. Not sure where I saw it, but that’s the latest.

Well, they did talk a lot more to the community way back when. A lot of this is lost by now perhaps, but it came up way before GW2 was released. It was part of their design because there were discussions at the time of how people were spread out over the continents. This started before EotN was out because that’s why EotN was part of Tyria again and not another new continent. Then they also said they wanted to change their approach with GW2 when it was announced.

There are two difficulties here. A lot of the people that worked at Anet on GW1 and the beginnings of GW2 are no longer there. I am sure the new team doesn’t feel responsible for what was said back then but people who saw these interviews do remember them.

Secondly, I fully understand that over time things change. What’s annoying though is that they say one thing and then years later act like they never said it or give an “explanation” of what they actually meant. Or they just stay silent on a subject and suddenly out of the blue their approach has completely changed. I know a lot of people still like to bring up the manifesto but I am talking about stuff before that.

Now I don’t mind if they want to bring out expansions after all, but when I look back at the reasons EotN was not a new continent and how they said multiple times back then they didn’t want to make that mistake again because it spreads people out too much, you can understand that this is a surprise.

To be honest, people are already spread out too much and then funneled in a couple of activities like fractals and champion runs. So new expansions of new continents won’t cause that problem.

I do wonder now though what they would do for example if they were to bring out Cantha. I guess it will be all level 80 zones…..or wait a minute, perhaps it’s how they will do the level cap raise…

New continents will just give them more areas to run stories in. The game isn’t spread out so much now, because people are directed about where to go by the living story. This actually works. It gets people together in one place.

Adding more zones won’t change anything in this.

Vayne.8563:

New continents will just give them more areas to run stories in. The game isn’t spread out so much now, because people are directed about where to go by the living story. This actually works. It gets people together in one place.

Adding more zones won’t change anything in this.

Well, it was their argument way back when. I do agree with you but from a different viewpoint. The idea that fractals, the grind of the month and the events are the things that bring certain groups together does work to a point.

However, if you are taking your time leveling through the zones and want someone to chat with and you’re not in one of those very active guilds, reality is that that part of the game people are really spread out in.

I find it midly ironic that Anet created a huge world, only to funnel them into an instance and whichever current event there is. It just would’ve been a much better idea to’ve started with a level cap of 50 and half the leveling zones we have now. That would cause more levelers to be in the same zone. That’s all I’m saying.

The fact that they are going the way of expansions at some point (my guess is about a year after China goes live), means that this will increase that effect. They will again make the world bigger and bigger and considering they already add new areas within the existing map they might end up doing it faster than in GW1…where they themselves recognised that as a problem. So yeh, it looks like GW2 will turn into a huge world where people are found in 3 places and the rest is empty. I guess I just don’t see the point in creating such a big world if you’re not gonna use it. That seems like a waste of resources they could use better.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

New continents will just give them more areas to run stories in. The game isn’t spread out so much now, because people are directed about where to go by the living story. This actually works. It gets people together in one place.

Adding more zones won’t change anything in this.

Well, it was their argument way back when. I do agree with you but from a different viewpoint. The idea that fractals, the grind of the month and the events are the things that bring certain groups together does work to a point.

However, if you are taking your time leveling through the zones and want someone to chat with and you’re not in one of those very active guilds, reality is that that part of the game people are really spread out in.

I find it midly ironic that Anet created a huge world, only to funnel them into an instance and whichever current event there is. It just would’ve been a much better idea to’ve started with a level cap of 50 and half the leveling zones we have now. That would cause more levelers to be in the same zone. That’s all I’m saying.

The fact that they are going the way of expansions at some point (my guess is about a year after China goes live), means that this will increase that effect. They will again make the world bigger and bigger and considering they already add new areas within the existing map they might end up doing it faster than in GW1…where they themselves recognised that as a problem. So yeh, it looks like GW2 will turn into a huge world where people are found in 3 places and the rest is empty. I guess I just don’t see the point in creating such a big world if you’re not gonna use it. That seems like a waste of resources they could use better.

It’s my contention that the world is too big for it to be anything else. Even smaller worlds have this problem, in games with bigger populations. It’s just not that easy to do it right. You either have a tiny world with no options, which sucks, or you direct people to the same places. If there is another alternative, I can’t see it.

Let’s pretend you can only have 1000 people per server. I don’t know the actual number and I’m sure that’s not it, but it will work as an example.

1000 people and 20% of them maybe are in WvW…that only leaves 800 people. But then 10% of those are SPvPing. That only leaves 700 people. But of those 200 are in dungeons. That only leaves 500 people, 100 of which are in LA. That leaves 400 people. Assuming that those 400 people were divided equally between 25 zones, you get about 16 people per zone…and those zones are pretty big. You put that number of people in a zone, there’s a relatively big chance they’ll never run into each other.

Now I don’t know server caps, but once you start thinking about people who play at 4 am and you can’t make a world small enough for them. The only solution is to direct them to all be in a certain place at a certain time…or encourage them anyway.

Vayne.8563:

You put that number of people in a zone, there’s a relatively big chance they’ll never run into each other.

Now I don’t know server caps, but once you start thinking about people who play at 4 am and you can’t make a world small enough for them. The only solution is to direct them to all be in a certain place at a certain time…or encourage them anyway.

I don’t know about you, but I revisit the earlier maps frequently (either playing on alts, or picking somewhere random to do my daily), and I still frequently run into people playing.

I like to play things at my own pace, and LS wouldn’t really allow me to do that. I do not find it fun when every encounter is swamped by dozens of players (because you have little-to-no impact on the fight)— that’s exactly how it was when Southsun was first introduced. It could very well be the same if LS is the mode of delivery for new zones.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Vayne.8563:

You put that number of people in a zone, there’s a relatively big chance they’ll never run into each other.

Now I don’t know server caps, but once you start thinking about people who play at 4 am and you can’t make a world small enough for them. The only solution is to direct them to all be in a certain place at a certain time…or encourage them anyway.

I don’t know about you, but I revisit the earlier maps frequently (either playing on alts, or picking somewhere random to do my daily), and I still frequently run into people playing.

I like to play things at my own pace, and LS wouldn’t really allow me to do that. I do not find it fun when every encounter is swamped by dozens of players (because you have little-to-no impact on the fight)— that’s exactly how it was when Southsun was first introduced. It could very well be the same if LS is the mode of delivery for new zones.

Sure, a lot of people congregate in low level areas….why? Because it’s the easiest place to do dailies, or farm champions. Again, Anet has directed traffic with dailies and the champion rewards.

It’s not an accident that you run into people in low level zones. It’s part of the structure of the game that encourages it.

Vayne.8563:

Sure, a lot of people congregate in low level areas….why? Because it’s the easiest place to do dailies, or farm champions. Again, Anet has directed traffic with dailies and the champion rewards.

It’s not an accident that you run into people in low level zones. It’s part of the structure of the game that encourages it.

And in an expansion, it’d be the same way— the new zones would be about as populated as the existing ones were during launch, and then it would dwindle, still leaving a reasonable number of re-visiters.

In LS, it’d be different. A new zone introduced via LS would be, during its first fortnight, utterly choc-full of players; and every encounter would be swamped by dozens of players (meaning your own personal impact would be near-impossible to recognise). The fights would be just like those in Southsun’s early days, or those against the Twisted minions now. A hundred people dog-piling the same enemy.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Vayne.8563:

Sure, a lot of people congregate in low level areas….why? Because it’s the easiest place to do dailies, or farm champions. Again, Anet has directed traffic with dailies and the champion rewards.

It’s not an accident that you run into people in low level zones. It’s part of the structure of the game that encourages it.

And in an expansion, it’d be the same way— the new zones would be about as populated as the existing ones were during launch, and then it would dwindle, still leaving a reasonable number of re-visiters.

In LS, it’d be different. A new zone introduced via LS would be, during its first week, utterly choc-full of players; and every encounter would be swamped by dozens of players (meaning your own personal impact would be near-impossible to recognise).

I don’t disagree with this. However, that’s how it was at launch too, and that’s how it would eventually be with an expansion.

You’re making an assumption that a new zone released during the personal story wouldn’t be permanent. But I’m thinking it would be.

Vayne.8563:

It’s my contention that the world is too big for it to be anything else. Even smaller worlds have this problem, in games with bigger populations. It’s just not that easy to do it right. You either have a tiny world with no options, which sucks, or you direct people to the same places. If there is another alternative, I can’t see it.

Let’s pretend you can only have 1000 people per server. I don’t know the actual number and I’m sure that’s not it, but it will work as an example.

1000 people and 20% of them maybe are in WvW…that only leaves 800 people. But then 10% of those are SPvPing. That only leaves 700 people. But of those 200 are in dungeons. That only leaves 500 people, 100 of which are in LA. That leaves 400 people. Assuming that those 400 people were divided equally between 25 zones, you get about 16 people per zone…and those zones are pretty big. You put that number of people in a zone, there’s a relatively big chance they’ll never run into each other.

Now I don’t know server caps, but once you start thinking about people who play at 4 am and you can’t make a world small enough for them. The only solution is to direct them to all be in a certain place at a certain time…or encourage them anyway.

Well, this is my point. You explained very well how people are divided up between different areas because of different activities. That is exactly the reason why I say that the original leveling world could’ve been smaller.

It is however also linked to the ridiculous level cap of 80. The solution for the leveling issue is actually simple enough. Make sure people spend more time in each zone while leveling. That’s why less zones at the start would’ve sufficed and they could’ve added more zones as the game progressed with endgame content or max level content if you prefer.

I think that it’s a shame that they put the dungeons mostly in low level zones with a tp next to it for example.

If dungeons were a little harder and more endgame content it would’ve been better and then put new dungeons in new areas for example. I mean this is just one small example but there is so much more that could’ve been done.

Right now dungeons are really done by level 80s mostly anyway, regardless if it’s Arah or AC.

Now, to change stuff now is not possible but these are the mistakes they made in my view that contribute to the current problems. And it surprised me because they originally set out to make a game that wouldn’t have that issue.

You tell me. Any MMO you say has some degree of this. SWTOR is actually pretty good in this respect because there are usually people in all leveling planets, but I can accept that that is an exception to the rule.

So, you’re Anet and see this issue and see how people were way spread out in your own GW1. You make a new game then and knowing this is an issue you make a super large world with lots of zones to level in. But, then you say, aha but level 80s can come back here because of the level downgrade system so the whole world is endgame. Then you set rewards a lot lower so level 80s are not interested in doing so.

Surely, somebody could’ve put two and two together? This game really needed fewer leveling zones and more level 80 zones with a purpose. If you want something specific you have to go there. If you want something else you need to go to another place. Dungeon access, materials whatever. The problem is now that most zones are just for pure leveling and a couple for farming. Not a great dynamic in my view.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

It’s my contention that the world is too big for it to be anything else. Even smaller worlds have this problem, in games with bigger populations. It’s just not that easy to do it right. You either have a tiny world with no options, which sucks, or you direct people to the same places. If there is another alternative, I can’t see it.

Let’s pretend you can only have 1000 people per server. I don’t know the actual number and I’m sure that’s not it, but it will work as an example.

1000 people and 20% of them maybe are in WvW…that only leaves 800 people. But then 10% of those are SPvPing. That only leaves 700 people. But of those 200 are in dungeons. That only leaves 500 people, 100 of which are in LA. That leaves 400 people. Assuming that those 400 people were divided equally between 25 zones, you get about 16 people per zone…and those zones are pretty big. You put that number of people in a zone, there’s a relatively big chance they’ll never run into each other.

Now I don’t know server caps, but once you start thinking about people who play at 4 am and you can’t make a world small enough for them. The only solution is to direct them to all be in a certain place at a certain time…or encourage them anyway.

Well, this is my point. You explained very well how people are divided up between different areas because of different activities. That is exactly the reason why I say that the original leveling world could’ve been smaller.

It is however also linked to the ridiculous level cap of 80. The solution for the leveling issue is actually simple enough. Make sure people spend more time in each zone while leveling. That’s why less zones at the start would’ve sufficed and they could’ve added more zones as the game progressed with endgame content or max level content if you prefer.

I think that it’s a shame that they put the dungeons mostly in low level zones with a tp next to it for example.

If dungeons were a little harder and more endgame content it would’ve been better and then put new dungeons in new areas for example. I mean this is just one small example but there is so much more that could’ve been done.

Right now dungeons are really done by level 80s mostly anyway, regardless if it’s Arah or AC.

Now, to change stuff now is not possible but these are the mistakes they made in my view that contribute to the current problems. And it surprised me because they originally set out to make a game that wouldn’t have that issue.

You tell me. Any MMO you say has some degree of this. SWTOR is actually pretty good in this respect because there are usually people in all leveling planets, but I can accept that that is an exception to the rule.

So, you’re Anet and see this issue and see how people were way spread out in your own GW1. You make a new game then and knowing this is an issue you make a super large world with lots of zones to level in. But, then you say, aha but level 80s can come back here because of the level downgrade system so the whole world is endgame. Then you set rewards a lot lower so level 80s are not interested in doing so.

Surely, somebody could’ve put two and two together? This game really needed fewer leveling zones and more level 80 zones with a purpose. If you want something specific you have to go there. If you want something else you need to go to another place. Dungeon access, materials whatever. The problem is now that most zones are just for pure leveling and a couple for farming. Not a great dynamic in my view.

When Anet makes a new game, everyone will be in the new zones, spreading out all over again.

I don’t think it’s a mistake to do what Anet did. I just think you have a different idea of how things should be done…but that doesn’t make the way it was done wrong. Because until you make a game and try your way, you can’t know if it will work. I’ve yet to be in any game, even WoW, where people didn’t complain about dead mid-level zones.

As for SWToR, one of my friends who played it, back when it was pay to play, expressed that most of the zones on his server were completely dead.

An expansion will allow people who are just too busy with RL, and not able to participate with the living story to play at their own pace.
The game is not just all achievment hunters, there are lots who are taking their time to finish a game or even a part. An expansion is a relaxed way for people to enjoy their time spent in the game instead of rushing towards the end.

Also when factions was out, prophecies was played a lot less, isnt that always the case when something new comes along.

I really hope that we get actual expansions. Living story is great to have, but it shouldn’t replace expansions. For the things that we would expect from an expansion (on par with the size of GW2 at launch), players should e able to take things at their own pace rather than be forced to keep pace with the living story.

Also, I buy gems to tell Anet to “keep up the good work”, not “you’re doing enough already, don’t try for more”. If gem sales success is what’s causing them to think that they shouldn’t make expansions, then I’ll think twice about buying gems in the future.

What does an expansion buy you other than a lot of new content all at once? Where is it written that the LS can’t open up new areas on a permanent basis, introduce new races and professions?

The first two “expansions” in GW were really new games but set in a different part of the same world. What prevents something being discovered that will allow you to travel to the other continents from LA? And why can’t that be part of a LS arc?

Vayne.8563:

I don’t disagree with this. However, that’s how it was at launch too, and that’s how it would eventually be with an expansion.

You’re making an assumption that a new zone released during the personal story wouldn’t be permanent. But I’m thinking it would be.

Well, on launch, at least players were split over numerous different areas, and advancing at their own pace. That’s one main difference with the LS.

Vayne.8563:

When Anet makes a new game, everyone will be in the new zones, spreading out all over again.

I don’t think it’s a mistake to do what Anet did. I just think you have a different idea of how things should be done…but that doesn’t make the way it was done wrong. Because until you make a game and try your way, you can’t know if it will work. I’ve yet to be in any game, even WoW, where people didn’t complain about dead mid-level zones.

As for SWToR, one of my friends who played it, back when it was pay to play, expressed that most of the zones on his server were completely dead.

SWTOR was in shambles a year ago…but it’s different now. I am talking about this year, not last year.

The reason why I think it’s wrong is because there are too many zones to level and too many levels to begin with. These thinks are linked together although it didn’t have too.

What my contention is (and you may disagree with that of course as it’s just my view), is simply that just like there are too many levels that have no meaning, we also have a lot of leveling zones that are basically meaningless.

When you talk about levels, it’s just that you’ve unlocked everything at level 30 or 35 and beyond that it’s just stacking traitpoints for passive abilities. For me that’s pointless, that’s creating levels for the sake of creating levels. There really isn’t anything to work towards except an arbitrary number. Really, the way they set it up, level 40 would have been more than enough.

But the zones is the same thing and perhaps related to having so many pointless levels. They made the accompanying pointless leveling zones. I say pointless because it simply more of the same and you don’t need them to tell a story and there is no other point to them than repeating what you’ve already done enough times.

For me the fact that they gave out level 20 scrolls to insta level an alt to 20 is proof that I have a point. There is not reason for them to do this unless they see a bottleneck in the leveling. It wouldn’t have been done unless it was a significant issue in their metrics. Let’s be honest here.

And there are people who feel like me that there are too many zones and it gets boring because of it. And that is why I say it was a mistake and more so an avoidable one.

There are many things they could’ve done like fewer levels and bigger level ranges per zone or longer time per level if there were a lot less levels and it wouldn’t split the levelers out as much.

You just simply can’t contend that if there are people of close enough levels spread out over 5 areas, say 6 per zone…that having them in one zone, making it 36 would not make the experience better for a persistent world. I mean why even create a persistent world if you set the circumstances of the game in opposition?

Sure, it’s too late now and it can’t change and for you it’s ok. But the reason it’s being discussed is that for some people it’s sad to be in a persistent world and hardly run into other people while leveling. Especially in a game that’s barely out for a year and is supposedly very successful and especially if it actually was made worse by design and really could’ve been avoided by making other choices.

Also creating all these zones costs resources. Resources that I think could’ve been spent much better. Also the capitals are way too big with few people in them. Again pearls by themselves but you can’t have 6 capitals in one game….people will end up in LA anyway. That’s why I think they would’ve been better off using those wasted resources on more level 80 content.

Any expansion with new continents will just make this worse. Maybe you’re ok with that, but not everybody is.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

When Anet makes a new game, everyone will be in the new zones, spreading out all over again.

I don’t think it’s a mistake to do what Anet did. I just think you have a different idea of how things should be done…but that doesn’t make the way it was done wrong. Because until you make a game and try your way, you can’t know if it will work. I’ve yet to be in any game, even WoW, where people didn’t complain about dead mid-level zones.

As for SWToR, one of my friends who played it, back when it was pay to play, expressed that most of the zones on his server were completely dead.

SWTOR was in shambles a year ago…but it’s different now. I am talking about this year, not last year.

The reason why I think it’s wrong is because there are too many zones to level and too many levels to begin with. These thinks are linked together although it didn’t have too.

What my contention is (and you may disagree with that of course as it’s just my view), is simply that just like there are too many levels that have no meaning, we also have a lot of leveling zones that are basically meaningless.

When you talk about levels, it’s just that you’ve unlocked everything at level 30 or 35 and beyond that it’s just stacking traitpoints for passive abilities. For me that’s pointless, that’s creating levels for the sake of creating levels. There really isn’t anything to work towards except an arbitrary number. Really, the way they set it up, level 40 would have been more than enough.

But the zones is the same thing and perhaps related to having so many pointless levels. They made the accompanying pointless leveling zones. I say pointless because it simply more of the same and you don’t need them to tell a story and there is no other point to them than repeating what you’ve already done enough times.

For me the fact that they gave out level 20 scrolls to insta level an alt to 20 is proof that I have a point. There is not reason for them to do this unless they see a bottleneck in the leveling. It wouldn’t have been done unless it was a significant issue in their metrics. Let’s be honest here.

And there are people who feel like me that there are too many zones and it gets boring because of it. And that is why I say it was a mistake and more so an avoidable one.

There are many things they could’ve done like fewer levels and bigger level ranges per zone or longer time per level if there were a lot less levels and it wouldn’t split the levelers out as much.

You just simply can’t contend that if there are people of close enough levels spread out over 5 areas, say 6 per zone…that having them in one zone, making it 36 would not make the experience better for a persistent world. I mean why even create a persistent world if you set the circumstances of the game in opposition?

Sure, it’s too late now and it can’t change and for you it’s ok. But the reason it’s being discussed is that for some people it’s sad to be in a persistent world and hardly run into other people while leveling. Especially in a game that’s barely out for a year and is supposedly very successful and especially if it actually was made worse by design and really could’ve been avoided by making other choices.

Also creating all these zones costs resources. Resources that I think could’ve been spent much better. Also the capitals are way too big with few people in them. Again pearls by themselves but you can’t have 6 capitals in one game….people will end up in LA anyway. That’s why I think they would’ve been better off using those wasted resources on more level 80 content.

Any expansion with new continents will just make this worse. Maybe you’re ok with that, but not everybody is.

Oh.. well… First time I hear about people disappointed by large scale of game.

There are no unnecessary levels in the game which has no high end content. Levels are here for a sense of progress.
In addition, you must take into consideration such fact as… em… artistry. Freedom of choice. Freedom of movement. Experience etc like that. I think not very much people will want to buy game that boasts that it has pair of locations, but they are VERY necessary. And a little bit of levels, but they are perfectly calculated directly for these locations.

People want experience. Want epic adventures on the epic scenery. Different. A lot.
And you are trying to bring the game to some sort of meaningfull grind in few, but a very convenient locations.
Less time costs – more ingame profit, in other words. . What is it for?

Tachenon.5270:

How do I feel about the Living World/Story? I feel that this Living World business is doing to Guild Wars 2 what this sinkhole in Louisiana is doing to the town of Bayou Corne.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhesBaRCME

You should take over these forums, good sir. (+1,000,000)

I don’t like the Living World events. But at least ANETs getting a little better at it with each update. They need to stop putting out contents like “Eat 10,000 candies! Let off 1000 fireworks! Hit 1000 pinatas! Watch the super dragon fireworks!” though

MeGaZlo.9516:

Oh.. well… First time I hear about people disappointed by large scale of game.

There are no unnecessary levels in the game which has no high end content. Levels are here for a sense of progress.
In addition, you must take into consideration such fact as… em… artistry. Freedom of choice. Freedom of movement. Experience etc like that. I think not very much people will want to buy game that boasts that it has pair of locations, but they are VERY necessary. And a little bit of levels, but they are perfectly calculated directly for these locations.

People want experience. Want epic adventures on the epic scenery. Different. A lot.
And you are trying to bring the game to some sort of meaningfull grind in few, but a very convenient locations.
Less time costs – more ingame profit, in other words. . What is it for?

It’s quite common that people complain about leveling zones being empty. I’ve heard friends complain about it in games like EQ and WoW and last year SWTOR certainly was no different.

It isn’t so much that the world is large, but the leveling area is so big that it adds to the issues of empty zones. The players are (LotR quote) like butter spread over too much bread. And Anet recognised that issue in GW1. That’s one of the reasons quoted back then for not wanting to go on with new continents. So EotN was not a new continent and they didn’t want to make the same mistake for GW2.

The sense of progress is exactly why there is no need for those levels. The reason I call them unnecessary is because it delays players unnecesarily long from doing dungeons and such and because after level 30 or so, there isn’t much progression happening. It’s the most devoid progression I’ve experienced in any game.

You can have everything unlocked, except trait points when you unlock that elite slot. Skill points you keep getting. In GW1 there were only 20 levels because of a simple reason: most of the game was considered endgame.

Now if had level 50 as max level and more max level zones and activities, I think the balance would make more sense. But that’s just me of course.

Gehenna.3625:

It’s quite common that people complain about leveling zones being empty. I’ve heard friends complain about it in games like EQ and WoW and last year SWTOR certainly was no different.

It isn’t so much that the world is large, but the leveling area is so big that it adds to the issues of empty zones. The players are (LotR quote) like butter spread over too much bread. And Anet recognised that issue in GW1. That’s one of the reasons quoted back then for not wanting to go on with new continents. So EotN was not a new continent and they didn’t want to make the same mistake for GW2.

The sense of progress is exactly why there is no need for those levels. The reason I call them unnecessary is because it delays players unnecesarily long from doing dungeons and such and because after level 30 or so, there isn’t much progression happening. It’s the most devoid progression I’ve experienced in any game.

You can have everything unlocked, except trait points when you unlock that elite slot. Skill points you keep getting. In GW1 there were only 20 levels because of a simple reason: most of the game was considered endgame.

Now if had level 50 as max level and more max level zones and activities, I think the balance would make more sense. But that’s just me of course.

I can see this, certainly, as an argument against creating numerous new leveling zones upon the hypothetical introduction of a new race.

If a “true” expansion were to focus on a dragon, or Joko, though, I’d presume it would be primarily lvl-80 content.

If such an addition were delivered via the LS, though, then (to continue your analogy) each bite of toast could quite likely be absolutely smothered in butter.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

I can see this, certainly, as an argument against creating numerous new leveling zones upon the hypothetical introduction of a new race.

If a “true” expansion were to focus on a dragon, or Joko, though, I’d presume it would be primarily lvl-80 content.

If such an addition were delivered via the LS, though, then (to continue your analogy) each bite of toast could quite likely be absolutely smothered in butter.

And don’t forget they already said that they also are planning on raising the level cap at some point.

Once that happens the leveling process will be even more tedious, specifically for new players I fear.

Oh how much easier it would’ve been if the level cap had been 40 or 50 even. Then there would’ve been less leveling zones and adding new ones for a level cap raise would still be ok.

Gehenna.3625:

Oh how much easier it would’ve been if the level cap had been 40 or 50 even. Then there would’ve been less leveling zones and adding new ones for a level cap raise would still be ok.

There was this one game where the level cap was 20. It was 20 through years worth of content expansions and seemed to work out great.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to remind folks again, the features and content you’d traditionally find in an expansion will absolutely be added to Gw2. The thing we haven’t decided is what form the release of that content would be presented in, be it a traditional expansion, living world, or some other form.

Living world based expansion similar to Karkagedon would be the most amazing way to go about it. Big world changing events that actually bring people together. Unlike the small scale events we have now like Queens Jubilee.

I currently don’t play GW2, and only visited the forums to get info on a possible expansion, so I’ll share my point of view here. Small content updates over time aren’t enough to get me to play again. An expansion will definitely make me play again. I got this email “Top 5 reasons to return to GW2” and it says there’s updates, and sure, updates are great, but getting back into the game takes effort and time, so I need a guarantee that there’s a lot of new content for that effort to be worth it. An expansion guarantees that, by showing me a list of all the new cool stuff. Plus it’s more exciting. Of course regular updates have their own advantages, and I can’t say which approach is better overall. Probably a combination of both really.

Heck, Just open up the one they got!

kiwituatara.6053:

I don’t like the Living World events. But at least ANETs getting a little better at it with each update. They need to stop putting out contents like “Eat 10,000 candies! Let off 1000 fireworks! Hit 1000 pinatas! Watch the super dragon fireworks!” though

get to 30 balloons, stop 13 invasions and two week later there is more similar stuff. You really think it is getting better. In the meantime nearly all the new content they introduce is time-gated. So the game gets a focus on time-gated / temporary content. What is basically the worst sort of content there is.

Back when we had the refugees the story at least showed a decent pace. It was active for multiple months and there was a clear story unfolding, parley because it did go at that slow pace and because it was just small content. Nothing you needed just a story unfolding. They should have not linked any achievements on it be apart from that it was fine.

After that it has become worse and worse. The story is almost impossible to follow with all the stuff happening every two weeks. There is a lot of temporary content linked to it so you get punished for not participating in it like now the gold-prices dropped because of the events so if you don’t participate you basically become poor overnight. They create more pressure to play more content to miss.

No I can’t say it is getting better. In my opinion it is getting worse with every patch. The fact that it consist of more content makes it only worse. It’s not just a story unfolding anymore like what it was in the beginning (except for the achievements that where linked to it). I have lost my apatite to play and see the living story as the worse part of Guild Wars 2. It basically destroys the game (for me).