Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 rewards skilled play for the most part. Rarely does a battle come to a numbers game except in the most dire of situations. The difference between rare-exotic are pretty miniscule even if you add up all the pieces from the respective tiers.

A good player will still do well, and a bad player will still fail. Even if they were specced out in exotics/legendaries. So why all the doomgloom? Does an additional +15 power really make that significant of a difference to you?

I’ve yet to notice.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Guild Wars 2 rewards skilled play for the most part. Rarely does a battle come to a numbers game except in the most dire of situations. The difference between rare-exotic are pretty miniscule even if you add up all the pieces from the respective tiers.

A good player will still do well, and a bad player will still fail. Even if they were specced out in exotics/legendaries. So why all the doomgloom? Does an additional +15 power really make that significant of a difference to you?

I’ve yet to notice.

This could not be more wrong. Stats add up, full ascended will leave you with much more than +15 power and even if the stats alone don’t explicitly require you to have the item the dungeon mechanics do. ANet themselves have stated this is the entire purpose of agony. It’s a gear grind plain and simple.

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

BTW you got me on the agony thing.

Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

BTW you got me on the agony thing.

Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.

FotM, level 5. Can you even read?

The difference isn’t “+15 power”. From the example given in the Arena Net blog post, the increase to stats was between 8% and 42%. Assuming new gear is (eventually) released for every slot, that’s a very significant stat increase, that will make a difference when playing through existing content, and will make a difference in WvW.

And the fundamental issue is: What is the point of the stat inflation?

To make existing content easier? Or, if existing content will be updated to make it challenging with the new gear, what is the point of the whole thing? Make it harder for players who stop playing for a few months to come back to the game, because their gear will now be obsolete (or at least inferior enough that they’ll be at a disadvantage)?

There is absolutely nothing to be gained, in terms of gameplay, by raising the “stat ceiling” on gear. Games with a subscription adopt that model because they need to keep players paying a monthly fee (and the fear of “falling behind” on the gear treadmill makes them more likely to do so). This was even mentioned in a previous Arena Net post: “You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet.”

It’s also dishonest for Arena Net to say that ascended gear is merely “a step between exotic and legendary great”, because:

• Legendary weapons have the same stat budget as exotic weapons (or did, until now).

• There is no legendary armour.

• There are no ascended weapons (that we know of).

So, from a progression point of view, “ascended” armour should effectively be the equivalent of legendary weapons. So why not call it “legendary” and make it a cosmetic upgrade (ex., with a slot where players can plug in a customized visual effect – such as fire, ice, lightning, shadow, etc.), while giving it the same stats as exotic armour?

I’m pretty sure every Guild Wars player would prefer that over pointless stat inflation and loss of customizability (you can’t put gem / rune upgrades on ascended gear, so you can’t even make that small adjustment to the stats).

And adding that “the new infusions will be a must to play higher level content” and that “this is only the first level of infusions” is basically the same as saying “welcome to the gear grind”.

Personally (after buying two accounts, several character slots and bank tabs, costumes, etc.), I’m not spending another cent on GW2 until I’m fully convinced that they’ve abandoned this nonsensical idea.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

Lol good movement and utility selection.. had a good laugh at this.. combat in GW2 is basically face rolling your skills that are not on cooldown. They failed miserably on the combat part… now the gear grind is following.

Docmandu.2914:

RhysSebastian.7651:

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

Lol good movement and utility selection.. had a good laugh at this.. combat in GW2 is basically face rolling your skills that are not on cooldown. They failed miserably on the combat part… now the gear grind is following.

It certainly brought a smile to my face. I loved the idea of the dodging mechanic until I discovered that, in PvE at least, it’s pretty pointless in many encounters. You dodge out of the red circle only to land in another one (now chilled with no endurance and no chance to dodge or move again), or you dodge a ranged attack only to be hit by the ranged attack. There are too many encounters where effective use of game mechanics (i.e., skilled play) has too little effect on situational outcomes. It’s often just as effective to stand still (speaking heretically now as a ranged player) and have a dps showdown which gets kinda boring after awhile. But, to the topic, I was loving the idea of a grind-free game prior to this patch—a major letdown.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

BTW you got me on the agony thing.

Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.

if the stats don’t matter, why add them?

Because a good player against an almost as good player can lose thanks to gear. That’s garbage pvp.

“Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.”

Been there done that.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Name 1 fight in the entire game, that requires gear more so than good movement and utility selection.

BTW you got me on the agony thing.

Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.

I am anxious to see how you will have done. Do let us know, please. But I propose you run it with starting level 1 weapons, just for the sake of the weapon skills, since gear doesn’t matter.

good video addition. And it shows exactly the problem we are seeing.

WoW is successful because it knew the get go what its asthetic was going to be.
GW2 was (at least by box sales) looking to be successful because it seemed to know what its asthetic was going to be.

Suddenly changing that asthetic like the video describes shows its fundamentally just a clone and not truly focused.

By being a clone, it will NEVER over take the original. Allods online is a very very well done clone of WoW. Yet it is considered a lesser attempt. Why?

Because a clone, will never be in the same league as the original.

There is nothing wrong with “power creep” or progression if kept in check. I swear some of you carebear casuals won’t be happy until everyone in the game has everything achievable at level 1.

Go play street fighter, or mortal kombat if you want a “fair game”.

Coming from a player since launch, and who is not yet even 80, I think a guy who has 400 hours and a lot of work and time put in, should be slightly more powerful than someone who hasn’t. Gear progession gives ppl something to work for, otherwise hit 80 and then get bored and stop playing. Sad but true.

Anet, just keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t let ppl who won’t be playing this game in six months from now regardless, let you sway your design to fit their instant gratification needs.

Just my opinion.

DegoLocc.5976:

There is nothing wrong with “power creep” or progression if kept in check. I swear some of you carebear casuals won’t be happy until everyone in the game has everything achievable at level 1.

Go play street fighter, or mortal kombat if you want a “fair game”.

Coming from a player since launch, and who is not yet even 80, I think a guy who has 400 hours and a lot of work and time put in, should be slightly more powerful than someone who hasn’t.

Anet, just keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t let ppl who won’t be playing this game in six months from now regardless, let you sway your design to fit their instant gratification needs.

Just my opinion.

Your first sentence contradicts itself… I take it from that, that you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Besides, many of the people outraged decided to go to a game that was “fair”. The game was called Guild Wars 2. But… I guess you missed that part?

Ok, you can have your narrow minded opinion, and you can freely express it. But don’t expect people wont think you’re a complete tool because of it.

DegoLocc.5976:

Coming from a player since launch, and who is not yet even 80, I think a guy who has 400 hours and a lot of work and time put in, should be slightly more powerful than someone who hasn’t. Gear progession gives ppl something to work for, otherwise hit 80 and then get bored and stop playing. Sad but true.

I respect your opinion and I honestly understand where you’re coming from.

But would it be so wrong for the reward of a player that plays a lot to simply be better at using what everyone else has, rather than being inherently better just through numbers? There would be much more ‘pride’ or whatever through defeating an opponent (or mobs) through expert use of the general tools rather than being given an elite set of tools to accomplish the same task?

Just some thoughts.

Ostra.3927:

Degolocc. Did you read anything before posting? Did you watch the videos? Did you even attempt to LEARN why power creep is a problem and has been a problem in EVERY game??

The point is… the ways to combat power creep are there… Anet is not using it. THAT is why we are trying to educate people and instead folks come into threads they know nothing about and dont even attempt to learn anything about why people are upset.

Yes I did as a matter of fact. Are you aware, not everyone shares your feelings? I have seen many MMO’s die as a result of no progression at end game, Simple cosmetic gear changes are not enough to hold some players. Some of us like being the underdog, and still pulling out a win, not all of us wan’t everyone to be completely even and fair. The winner of the battle should be based on several things, spec, tactic’s, time put in “experience”, ect.

A master black belt will kick the crap out of a green belt in martial arts. Why? Experience. Yet 10 green belts MIGHT be able to take the master down with team work.

8 VS 8 is perfect for you competitive guys who want 100% even playing field. Other players, like myself like to add variables in to the equation even if they’re not in my best interest.

And the video’s posted from those extra credit guys, that is their opinion, aside from the helium voices and 5 year old art work, I really can’t take them seriously because they assume that their opinion is right, and anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

You’re all entitled to your own opinions, so I won’t take away from what you guys feel, But I WILL however express my opinion which differs from yours.

End Game Gear progression is a good thing in MMO’s, In my opinion, and it be a lot less interesting and bland without it. And once again, no cosmetic gear changes are simply not enough at end game. Players like me like to feel our toons grow beyound level 80. Not get to 80 and hit a ceiling of progression, just so fresh level 80’s can feel more equal to those level 80’s who have been working their arses off.

Once again, I’m not even 80 yet, I’m 73 and been playing since launch, and that’s just how I feel.

Ravnodaus.5130:

DegoLocc.5976:

There is nothing wrong with “power creep” or progression if kept in check. I swear some of you carebear casuals won’t be happy until everyone in the game has everything achievable at level 1.

Go play street fighter, or mortal kombat if you want a “fair game”.

Coming from a player since launch, and who is not yet even 80, I think a guy who has 400 hours and a lot of work and time put in, should be slightly more powerful than someone who hasn’t.

Anet, just keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t let ppl who won’t be playing this game in six months from now regardless, let you sway your design to fit their instant gratification needs.

Just my opinion.

Your first sentence contradicts itself… I take it from that, that you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Besides, many of the people outraged decided to go to a game that was “fair”. The game was called Guild Wars 2. But… I guess you missed that part?

Ok, you can have your narrow minded opinion, and you can freely express it. But don’t expect people wont think you’re a complete tool because of it.

I don’t know why I’m even responding to this but, once again, it’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it, just like you are.

As someone who is 31 years old and been playing mmo’s since dark ages of camelot , UO, and pre CU/NGE SWG, I feel I am more than qualified to chime in.

Call me narrowminded all you want. If ppl think I’m a “tool” because of my opinion, then so be it.

A master black belt will kick the crap out of a green belt because he is better.

NOT because his shoes give him +10 to butt damage.

I can appreciate you have a different opinion but you did not argue why power creep is good. Instead you just said “its good, its needed”

Name an MMO without a gear progression that died in the end. Go ahead I can by all means discuss that since I can name a LOT more that died because of it then because of a lack of it.

Sion.1653:

DegoLocc.5976:

Coming from a player since launch, and who is not yet even 80, I think a guy who has 400 hours and a lot of work and time put in, should be slightly more powerful than someone who hasn’t. Gear progession gives ppl something to work for, otherwise hit 80 and then get bored and stop playing. Sad but true.

I respect your opinion and I honestly understand where you’re coming from.

But would it be so wrong for the reward of a player that plays a lot to simply be better at using what everyone else has, rather than being inherently better just through numbers? There would be much more ‘pride’ or whatever through defeating an opponent (or mobs) through expert use of the general tools rather than being given an elite set of tools to accomplish the same task?

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for being open minded enough to take in where I am coming from, and as to what you said I’ll rebuttle, it’s simple.

Anet is not talking about making a power gap, the likes of WARHAMMER, like the difference between tier 2, or tier 3, or end game. The stats benefit seems minimal at best. Good players will still be good, and bad players will still be bad. I really don’t see gear carrying ppl here anytime soon in GW2’s future.

I have seen this argument, time and time again. Only to have the devs change things to please the “forum whiners” masses, who once again won’t even be playing this game 6 months from now.

Casual ppl who want level playing fields don’t last long in MMO’s, because fair is boring, life isn’t fair, and neither are MMO’s. The genre is designed from the ground up to be a time sink.

In a perfect world, we’d all be equal, play every day, and love it. In reality it would get boring, and fast.

Stats do add up and give players an advantage. That is besides the point tho. The whole point of the new armors as well as their aquisition isn’t just for the dungeon they added higher stats to them giving players who have done the grind an advantage over others. This type of end game content flies in the face of their manifesto, essentially they lied to the public and to their players when they made this move. They can no longer be trusted.

Ostra.3927:

A master black belt will kick the crap out of a green belt because he is better.

NOT because his shoes give him +10 to butt damage.

I can appreciate you have a different opinion but you did not argue why power creep is good. Instead you just said “its good, its needed”

Name an MMO without a gear progression that died in the end. Go ahead I can by all means discuss that since I can name a LOT more that died because of it then because of a lack of it.

Lol what killed certain MMO’s can be debated all day just like this topic.

And yes, a black belt will kick their butts because he is better, has trained harder, longer, has more energy, and has access to more skills because he has been doing in longer.

Why in this game should a fresh button mashing level 80 even stand a chance against a player who is actually using tactics and not just playing the “activate what is cooled down” game?

In my experience the guys who want no end game gear stat progressions, end up leaving the game down the road anyway even if they get their way, because they see how boring it is to play fair all the time.

Personally I like being the underdog, having the odds against me on my way leveling up, and killing another guy who is 80, fully geared in end game gear and has a legendary weapon, even though I’m a low 70. Feels really good. Gratification, not instant, but earned.

DegoLocc.5976:

Once again, I’m not even 80 yet, I’m 73 and been playing since launch, and that’s just how I feel.

All well and good, but you’re forgetting two things:

A) gear threadmill MMOs are dime-a-dozen. It never helps them to not fail whenever they’re bad. It’s not so surprising for people to ask for at least ONE who doesn’t devolve into the same old crap.
B) GW2 was explicitly sold as such a “departure” MMO, and not 3 months after launch you get a complete 180 u-turn. Although nowadays this is pretty much standard mmo developer company behavior, you really can’t fault people for being pissed off.

tigirius.9014:

Stats do add up and give players an advantage. That is besides the point tho. The whole point of the new armors as well as their aquisition isn’t just for the dungeon they added higher stats to them giving players who have done the grind an advantage over others. This type of end game content flies in the face of their manifesto, essentially they lied to the public and to their players when they made this move. They can no longer be trusted.

If you REALLY believed ALL level 80’s would be equal in endgame, in an MMO, then you fooled yourself. That’s just not the way MMO’s work. And if they did work that way, they would be “arcade” like league of legends, that’s some ppl’s preference, but I think they are looking in the wrong genre for a game then.

Dego, you are simply mistaken. The devs changed TO a gear grind. Let me pose a very simple cause and effect that if you indeed have played all the games you say you have you would recognize.

1st stat increase. New dungeon/enemies/land with tougher mobs. This is done to make sure people still have a stat goal to keep them playing. Well what happens when those players have the gear? They leave to some other game. As they did for GW2.

2nd stat increase. Needed to bring those that left back into the game. The grinders come back and begin getting the new gear, and then leave once they have it.

3rd stat increase. Again needed to keep the grinding market interested just as the first 1. Now the stats are SO much higher then vanilla that the DE zones and Dungeons are way under powered. So they have to revamp those old content and make it harder.

Now the final result is new players coming in are dealing with zones and dungeons and content that they need “hand me downs” and “help” from the better geared players to even work through. Then they get to grind the tier 1 dungeons for enough power to be able to get groups for the tier 2 dungeons for enough power…

This is the cycle with power creep. It was true in EQ, it was true in DAoC, it was true in CoH, it was true in WOW, it was true in Aion, and Lineage 2, it was true in Warhammer.

GW1 did not have this problem and was very successful. We were told GW2 would NOT follow this line of thinking and so we bought this game over all the others. We were lied to.

MagnusLL.8473:

DegoLocc.5976:

Once again, I’m not even 80 yet, I’m 73 and been playing since launch, and that’s just how I feel.

All well and good, but you’re forgetting two things:

A) gear threadmill MMOs are dime-a-dozen. It never helps them to not fail whenever they’re bad. It’s not so surprising for people to ask for at least ONE who doesn’t devolve into the same old crap.
B) GW2 was explicitly sold as such a “departure” MMO, and not 3 months after launch you get a complete 180 u-turn. Although nowadays this is pretty much standard mmo developer company behavior, you really can’t fault people for being pissed off.

But there are some already that are “Fair and even” and they are more arcade than true MMO. I understand there is a huge pull for games like WOW, and LOL, but, that doesn’t mean we all feel that way. Most ppl feel a certain way of course, most ppl are also stupid and ignorant so….

My point being, just because masses “think” they want something, doesn’t mean they’ll actually like it when they get it. Seen it happen plently of times. If you get your carrot on the end of your stick too early, then you loose interest and get bored, and before you know it, you don’t play anymore.

@DegoLocc

So basiclly if you play 8 hours a day and because I have a job and a family and can squeeze in only 3

You are deserving of not only better stats but entitled to all the top tier areas of a game simply because you can log on more often than I

Thats a pretty self center opinion .

Oh then again I guess you’re one of those ppl that brag about beating lvl 10’s with your lvl capped toon complete with the top flight gear, and then send that lvl 10 tells about how leet you are

Check this ring:
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71383-solaria-circle-of-the-sun-infused

Doesn’t look good does it

Ostra.3927:

This is the cycle with power creep. It was true in EQ, it was true in DAoC, it was true in CoH, it was true in WOW, it was true in Aion, and Lineage 2, it was true in Warhammer.

GW1 did not have this problem and was very successful. We were told GW2 would NOT follow this line of thinking and so we bought this game over all the others. We were lied to.

I know EXACTLY what you’re saying, but IF you thought anet was gonna do away with end game progession, you bought into the hype and I don’t feel bad for you. Personally some of my fondest MMO memories where in DAoC’s frontiers with my realm rank 5 ranger, sure, I got beat up a lot on my way to RR5, but, it was a fun uphill struggle and when I was high RR I got my turn to beat up on those who had less time put in, to me it was a lot of fun.

Don’t get me wrong, there where times on my way up that I was able to take down higher realm rank players than I was, and when I did it was SOOOO gratifying to say the least. Like I said above, I don’t want eveything handed to me, I want to work for it. Especially since this game has no paid subs, and I feel like I can go at my own pace no pressure.

Arreyanne.2683:

@DegoLocc

So basiclly if you play 8 hours a day and because I have a job and a family and can squeeze in only 3

You are deserving of not only better stats but entitled to all the top tier areas of a game simply because you can log on more often than I

Thats a pretty self center opinion .

Oh then again I guess you’re one of those ppl that brag about beating lvl 10’s with your lvl capped toon complete with the top flight gear, and then send that lvl 10 tells about how leet you are

Don’t put words in my mouth please. And no, I AM the type of player who brags about beating BETTER geared ppl than myself.

With a totally fair even playing field, being the underdog is not possible is/was my argument, if you care to re read all of my posts in this thread, because you clearly missed my point numerous times. Better reading comprehension is your friend.

Corvindi.5734:

Because a good player against an almost as good player can lose thanks to gear. That’s garbage pvp.

You misunderstand that is Leetness.
If you dont have the time to do the grind dont play the game. Or ask Anet to put it in the shop to buy it instead.

I mean that is the point of the grind right? The most dedicated and chosen players have an unmitigated advantage over the scrubs. After they have beaten everyone to a pulp and are 6 slots of gear ahead of you the devs release the 1st slot to everyone.

That is the epic game play and gear gap treadmill. Exactly what this game is.

You are right Dego. I bought into the things the devs said they would not do and believed them.

So the next time a salesmen gives you a bad product… that would be YOUR fault right? not his? So just suck it up and learn to never buy from that company again.

Good advice. Dego says dont buy from Anet ever again. I agree with him

Ostra.3927:

You are right Dego. I bought into the things the devs said they would not do and believed them.

So the next time a salesmen gives you a bad product… that would be YOUR fault right? not his? So just suck it up and learn to never buy from that company again.

Good advice. Dego says dont buy from Anet ever again. I agree with him

Your candor is noted, and no, not in life generally, but when it comes to videogames, I have learned over the years to not buy into the hype and wait until the game is released and experience it for myself.

The gear in this game so far, and for the foreseeable future is not “gamebreaking” by any means, it’s a slight advantage at best, nothing to go up in arms over, like I said, we ain’t talking about Warhammer Online progression here where if you haven’t been playing for a couple years you stand no chance type of deal. This game just offers a bit of incentive to continue to play your level 80 toon, well, PAST 80! And that’s a good thing.

Anet has done what no other MMO company has managed in a long time, they made a fun game. The pve is fun, the pvp is a blast, and I thank them for that, We’ll see what they do in the future, but I think their heads are in the right place atm.

“Anet has done what no other MMO company has managed in a long time, they made a fun game. The pve is fun, the pvp is a blast, and I thank them for that, We’ll see what they do in the future, but I think their heads are in the right place atm.”

The issue is most of the anet staff has been replaced and they’ve stopped making a fun game.

Ravnodaus.5130:

But there is certainly a lot of people upset about this new gear tier. And they seem to be pretty intent on discussing it. And they seem to be engaging in dialogue, much of which is actually meaningful. They are actually listening to one another, almost as if their voices are being heard and validated from one another.

Oh they are?! Funny most of what I read was the same 20 guys complaining and whining about something they should’ve seen coming. A necessary evil if you will.

And engaging in “meaningful conversation” and “listening to ideas” to you means, “people who agree with me, and have the same opinion as I do”, everyone else is just muttering nonsense right? They must be, since you don’t agree with them, and WE ALL know who you are and care about what you think right? I think not.

What’s that?! You don’t care if I’m having fun with the game!? That’s nice, I didn’t ask you to care. All I have done on the whole topic is put my 2 cents in. But guys like you read my posts, and deep down know I am right and have a point, a point that differs from yours, and you feel threatened (amusingly I might add), so you attack my opinion and make assumptions on what type of person I must be to have an opinion that differs from yours.

And where did I insult anyone? I must of missed that when I typed it…….

LOL at your whole post, and your disdain for me and my opinion. It really is an amusing rant to say the least. Is it satire?

This game? Skill? This game? Guild Wars 2?

This game where you just hit a few hotkeys a few times and hope your enemy dies before you do?

Which game are you really thinking of?

http://extra-credits.net/episodes/power-creep/ Just… watch.

Power creep is not good, nor is it inherently necessary, and causes additional problems that must themselves be patched up. Just because WoW did it and WoW is successful doesn’t mean that every game needs it to be successful. It doesn’t even mean that every MMO needs it to be successful. GW1 didn’t need it.

Endless vertical progression is almost always a result of lazy design, appealing to our base desire to see bigger numbers instead of focusing resources on making the gameplay itself more engaging. A game where I can do 10,000 damage every time I hit a mob – who itself has hundreds of thousands of HP, and takes as long to kill as any other mob in GW2 – is not inherently better than GW2 because the numbers are bigger. Making the numbers bigger does absolutely nothing for the experience besides coddling the WoW players who don’t know how to function without bigger numbers to grind, and you know what? They’re going to grind the bigger numbers and go back to WoW. Because no game does that style of gameplay as well as WoW.

Trying to compete with WoW on WoW’s terms is the one-sentence summation of the generation of MMO wreckage that started strong and then quickly petered out over this past decade, as most spectacularly demonstrated by SWTOR. It’s a lost cause to pursue this type of player, and has earned them a ton of well-deserved bad press and distrust from the long-term fans of the game.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.

DO IT!!!! Mad props to you.

Dego, in the beginning, I too thought that this game was mostly skill, seeing that I never died while my wife died at every encounter. Then I hit lvl 80 and got better gear.

Please try it. You may have a completely different opinion. With better gear, a challenging fight went from two-three normal adds to gather all the mobs in the area and mop the floor with them. It almost seemed like a joke.

MMORPGs, in particular, change things, but rarely do they change a core philosophy in how a game is built. I think that’s what a lot of people are upset about. In a fight between two lvl 80s, it’s fair to think that the person who invested 400 hours into the character would win against someone who spent 100. However, the reason for this was supposed to be because of skill not gear. In a game where one of the main design philosophy was that gear would not matter, it matters very much and looks to matter even more.

DegoLocc.5976:

I know EXACTLY what you’re saying, but IF you thought anet was gonna do away with end game progession, you bought into the hype and I don’t feel bad for you.

A value expressed as a central tenet to your product isn’t hype. Especially when you have delivered on it before.

smug.3895:

RhysSebastian.7651:

Actually you just inspired me, naked lupicus run with level 80 weapons sometime this week lol full party.

DO IT!!!! Mad props to you.

Dego, in the beginning, I too thought that this game was mostly skill, seeing that I never died while my wife died at every encounter. Then I hit lvl 80 and got better gear.

Please try it. You may have a completely different opinion. With better gear, a challenging fight went from two-three normal adds to gather all the mobs in the area and mop the floor with them. It almost seemed like a joke.

MMORPGs, in particular, change things, but rarely do they change a core philosophy in how a game is built. I think that’s what a lot of people are upset about. In a fight between two lvl 80s, it’s fair to think that the person who invested 400 hours into the character would win against someone who spent 100. However, the reason for this was supposed to be because of skill not gear. In a game where one of the main design philosophy was that gear would not matter, it matters very much and looks to matter even more.

I will take your advice, and when I am fully geared 80 I might agree, if and when that time comes that I feel I am killing everything too easily I’d be willing to come back to the thread and say I was wrong.

DegoLocc.5976:

There is nothing wrong with “power creep” or progression if kept in check. I swear some of you carebear casuals won’t be happy until everyone in the game has everything achievable at level 1.

Firstly you don’t seem to understand that carebear refers to risk vs reward – e.g – open world PvP with looting / XP loss etc and that GW2 is a very carebear game.

Secondly the PvE is very casual and adding gear progression lite doesn’t change that, every hardcore raider I know went back to WoW & Rift when their expansions came out, the dungeons / world events in GW2 just don’t cut it for most hardcore Pvers, they are fine for casuals, but that is all.

DegoLocc.5976:

I know EXACTLY what you’re saying, but IF you thought anet was gonna do away with end game progession, you bought into the hype and I don’t feel bad for you.

Hype is based on word of mouth and a marketing campaign. This was not.

ANet had successfully done away with end game progression in GW1. The stat cap never increased, EVER, in the lifetime of the game. The fact that the sequel exists shows that it was successful.

They advertised this game would use the same model as GW1 in that regard. Now they’ve changed that and it’s no longer true. That isn’t buying into hype, that is a genuine outright lie.

DegoLocc.5976:

tigirius.9014:

Stats do add up and give players an advantage. That is besides the point tho. The whole point of the new armors as well as their aquisition isn’t just for the dungeon they added higher stats to them giving players who have done the grind an advantage over others. This type of end game content flies in the face of their manifesto, essentially they lied to the public and to their players when they made this move. They can no longer be trusted.

If you REALLY believed ALL level 80’s would be equal in endgame, in an MMO, then you fooled yourself. That’s just not the way MMO’s work. And if they did work that way, they would be “arcade” like league of legends, that’s some ppl’s preference, but I think they are looking in the wrong genre for a game then.

Please name some of these games. I’m not looking for DotA-based games like LoL…the MOBA genre really isn’t my cup of tea.

I’m really looking for something along the lines of the original Guild Wars. I even have a thread asking for game suggestions for us GW1 vets.