GW player of 14+kh and Passionate Mind Wracker since 2005
Power creep in movement speed
GW player of 14+kh and Passionate Mind Wracker since 2005
I agree. If every class receives a passive skill with +25% speed boost, it’s like no one has it anymore. And swiftness becomes almost pointless. Also, when I started with my first char (a thief) I was so happy to see that, as thief, I could move faster than others, just to see that it wasn’t really like that. What’s the point of being a class that should be more agile than others (while using a passive skill), if almost every class has the same speed (with the same system)?
Guards/mesmers are the only classes without it.
Movement speed boosts are one of those things that people are going to want to have active at all time, because it’s both convenient and extremely powerful. (In PvP being faster than your opponent by even just a small margin gives you a ton of ways to avoid fights you would lose and force them when you’re sure of victory. In PvE there are tons of monsters that are just easier to deal with if you can walk slightly faster than them.
Personally I think they have it just about right for the classes I play, which are guardian, ranger, and warrior (more to follow soon).
I had to make real sacrifices as to what runes I could use. Did I want the boost that travelers offered with the speed or a rune that would give me better defense/ damage.
As a guardian I already have access to great heals and condi cleanse with a couple of specials for closing distance. I could rely on the speed boost that the staff offers with a special, but its not a constant bump to speed with the amount of time for the cool down.
Its about choices and making sure that no one class has it all.
(edited by Kamara.4187)
" In WvW importance of the placement on the battlefield is greatly reduced as many players move at least +25% speed all the time and this problem is further highlighted when near immunity to soft CC is kind of meta for melee classes. "
But nerfing swiftness would create an even bigger problem of people being rooted to one place whereas speed is needed to position oneself more favorably. Speed also shortens the time of mat farming and makes it easier to disengage from fights I don’t want to engage in. Stupid dredge/raptor/zombie/whatever, if I wanted to fight I would have hit you. I usually engage but sometimes I really want to get the farming out of the way and some mobs take too long to kill especially considering that their drops are RNG based.
“In PvP being faster than your opponent by even just a small margin gives you a ton of ways to avoid fights you would lose and force them when you’re sure of victory. "
If I wanted to continue fighting I obviously wouldn’t be running away in the first place.
This is indicative of a larger problem. In an attempt to let every class do everything and let you play what you want to play as any class, the game was created (and has become even more) homogenized.
This takes away class identity, and makes differences soft. I honestly don’t feel that different when swapping between classes, except maybe the ele for having tons of attunements available. The presence of a particular class doesn’t mean much when all buffs and debuffs are the same across all classes. On top of this, buffs don’t seems important. If I strip boons, they just get put right back up because access to them is so widespread and easy to spam. Same goes for condition stripping. The game has become a buff management game, and I am not a fan of that.
This is my biggest complaint in the game aside from might-stacking being the end-all be-all of damage output, and dungeon design not having any idea how to design dungeons for this game’s combat system.
Those are the three major things that make me play this game less and less
(edited by Rump Buffalo.2594)
Ever since launch I’ve always felt like the base movement speed was too sluggish and it really REALLY irritated me, so I played sword/horn warrior with signet of rage. I didn’t use the 10% trait because it didn’t stack with swiftness so it actually didn’t do anything.
Then I leveled my necro and I really liked it in general, but I felt like I had to use warhorn and spectral walk for perma swiftness. Of course I didn’t use any of the 10% or 15% stuff because why would you when it doesn’t stack with swiftness?
So I don’t see it as power creep so much as making some traits and signets actually functional options to take instead of rotating swiftness skills.
And personally I still can’t stand mesmer and guardian because of their poor movement speed options.
My thoughts on this have always been that the base movement speed should be increased by 25% and all the passive crap like signets and traits should be removed, and swiftness should be shorter in duration.
oh my, so now there’s folks complaining about “speed buff everywhere”. Everything are complainable these days.
I dont see any “power creep”. It’s an imaginary paranoia at best. For the increased speed, the person at issue has to sacrifice a trait or skill slot for it, limited him from something he could have had in exchange for abit more mobility in combat. It’s a tradeoff. Speed outside of combat is nothing more than convenience, nothing else worth losing hair about.
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
oh my, so now there’s folks complaining about “speed buff everywhere”. Everything are complainable these days.
I dont see any “power creep”. It’s an imaginary paranoia at best. For the increased speed, the person at issue has to sacrifice a trait or skill slot for it, limited him from something he could have had in exchange for abit more mobility in combat. It’s a tradeoff. Speed outside of combat is nothing more than convenience, nothing else worth losing hair about.
This! 100% spot on.
There’s no power creep, just “convenience creep,” which is actually good for the game. Really, though, ANet should just take it a step further and give everyone the same level of convenience, leaving speed boosts as a purely combat application.
Here’s what I think should happen:
1. Increase out-of-combat speed by 33%.
2. Out-of-combat speed is no longer affected by Swiftness or the passive +25% speed boosts.
Aaaand that’s it. That’s all you need to do. Now you can take the +25% speed boost traits/runes or spec for Swiftness if you like the extra mobility during fights, but you aren’t ruining your ability to travel by abstaining from them.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)
Base speed is painfully slow.
The kind of slow one would expect to find paired with a movement speed booster in the cash shop (oh hey there’s a swim speed booster)
The point of having passive 25% boosts is that you get the choice of trading another utility skill to move a bit faster.
Contrast this with a class without that signet, that has to not only pick 2-3 utilities to maintain swiftness but also has to trait for it.
I’ve long argued I shouldn’t have to build my entire character around moving a little faster when most everyone else gets a signet (and even the mesmers part time signet is better than nothing).
I think every class should have some form of smaller personal speed that doesn’t require an entire build to get.
My guardian is one of the most frustrating things I’ve ever played.
Slow at the best of times but getting stuck in combat speed is like a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter.
There is absolutely no evidence to support that it would.” -AnthonyOrdon
the problems were that the game in general had too slow movement across most classes / builds. and also that there was absolutely no way to keep up with high movement classes/builds in all forms of pvp. they could basically just disengage and get out of combat even better then mesmers and thieves can today.
so people in general got tired of it. i personally would like to get rid of all the 25% movement speed increase traits / passives / runes, and jsut give everyone a baseline such increase.
swiftness i dont know. if you scale it up to compensate and make a new gap, then you are re-creating the original problems so i think it should stay where its at.
super-speed to me is ok as it is low duration, and only some abilities / traits generate it. super speed to me seems like an actually logical choice between swiftness speed and leap abilities. so it is good as it is.
Between 25% and 33% there is a HUGE difference. Thats why my Engie Is still using Streamlined Kits manual permaswiftness instead of the much more economic and always-on Mecha Legs 25%.
I just can’t go slower than swift…
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
The +25% speed boost is a massive quality of life improvement when playing the game (especially playing as a charr or norn), making it more widely available was the best thing that ever happened.
This is indicative of a larger problem. In an attempt to let every class do everything and let you play what you want to play as any class, the game was created (and has become even more) homogenized.
Oh please, in most other games speed is generally the same across classes and there is some sort of sprint ability that all classes have access to, it doesn’t make them any more homogenized. Heck a lot of other games give you mounts to increase speed even further.
Sorry I don’t see it as an issue at all.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-does-swiftness-exist/page/3#post5412802
You’re just helping prove my point. I effectively already talked about this and how its ease of access might as well just make speed boosts baseline since actual WASD movement has very little sway in combat dominated by extended invulnerability periods, ranged, rapid-travel/instant damage, and instant teleports. Movement in gw2 is incredibly sluggish to begin with, and tacking on a +33% movement speed modifier doesn’t have any substantial impact on combat outside of a few very niche situations (which typically can be negated by a weapon swap or single skill use anyway). If it’s only real usage is overworld travel with little impact on combat, why not just make it all baseline and dedicate those traits and skills to something more interesting (not that there’s really much else to which those empty slots can be dedicated in this game)?
We don’t need a boost to swiftness. Just make 133% movement speed baseline, and let small bursts of super speed take over because its effects are still felt dramatically in combat situations.
This is indicative of a larger problem. In an attempt to let every class do everything and let you play what you want to play as any class, the game was created (and has become even more) homogenized.
You have to realize that given how little there is to do in GW2 (heal—mostly just one’s self; damage; be invulnerable; CC), this game could have easily gotten along with a mere 3 classes at launch if we really wanted to give them distinct, fair abilities which defined particular play-styles and matched a functional flavor. Everyone already does the same thing and it’s been this way since launch; it’s only just gotten worse over time. Opportunity cost and distinction between classes are out of whack, leading to passive combat which is just a quick exchange of simultaneous (instant) opening damage and invulnerability periods regardless of which class one plays. Above all of this, WASD has never had a strong influence on combat in general.