Guild Wars 2

Olvendred.3027:

Rhialto.8423:

Two.1627:

Lazaar.9123:

Two.1627:

I understand Atheism less then I understand God/Allah. Seems to be a group of people set on letting everyone else know they are wrong.

Atheism is just the lack of a belief, you are thinking of anti-theism.

If Atheism is the lack of belief how can you get anybody to believe in it?

You don’t believe in atheism. You believe that the explanations for the universe’s phenomena don’t require the existence of a magic ghost that breaks the laws of physics and morality on a whim.

And as far as these logical tricks that you’re trying to play, good luck. The burden of proof is on religion to prove that it’s true, not on me or anyone else to prove that it’s false.

If you do believe that it’s false, however, you are going beyond atheism.

Atheism literally means “without (a) god”, so claiming that a belief system that relies on the existence of one is false doesn’t got beyond atheism, strictly speaking.
What you’re thinking of is probably agnosticism – it basically says that there might or might not be a god (among other things, but the whole god thing is the case at hand), but it’s impossible to prove it either way. Many agnostics do not explicitly believe in a deity of any kind because of this and are thus also atheists, but one doesn’t go hand in hand with the other.

Edit: I see you quoted me in the meantime. My answer is still the same, though one could add that atheism is mostly an individual thing, which only evolves into anti-theism when applied to others. Again, one does not automatically come with the other.

“This world revolves around me and my feelings”

Yeah, how dare people not agree with you on the internet.

Block anyone you don’t want to listen to. Leave reason for banning to Anet.

Funny thing is, while the existance of a higher power can’t be disproven, the existance of the christian god can. Many things this god supposedly has done like: create everything in 7 days, put the earth at the center of the universe, start the human race with just one man and one woman and many other things are all proven false.

So even if their god exists, it would not be the god their religion describes.

Free speech isn’t quite what most people think it is. It doesn’t mean you can go anywhere and say whatever you want. It means that you can speak out in protest against the government without fear of reprecussions.

Anet is a company and Guild Wars 2 is their property. They have the right to not allow whatever they want inside that game, because it is their business. They could say “You are not allowed to play if your hair color is brown” if they wanted to

Olvendred.3027:

Rhialto.8423:

Two.1627:

Lazaar.9123:

Two.1627:

I understand Atheism less then I understand God/Allah. Seems to be a group of people set on letting everyone else know they are wrong.

Atheism is just the lack of a belief, you are thinking of anti-theism.

If Atheism is the lack of belief how can you get anybody to believe in it?

You don’t believe in atheism. You believe that the explanations for the universe’s phenomena don’t require the existence of a magic ghost that breaks the laws of physics and morality on a whim.

And as far as these logical tricks that you’re trying to play, good luck. The burden of proof is on religion to prove that it’s true, not on me or anyone else to prove that it’s false.

If you do believe that it’s false, however, you are going beyond atheism.

There’s a reason why theories which aren’t falsifiable aren’t considered to be valid theories.

Grok Krog.9581:

Anet is a company and Guild Wars 2 is their property. They have the right to not allow whatever they want inside that game, because it is their business. They could say “You are not allowed to play if your hair color is brown” if they wanted to

Actually no… because that would be discrimination, which isn’t legal. Yes, they have the right to terminate your account, as it is their property; however not for a discriminatory reason. Fine lines there.

Unless someone jumps your person and call you slurs for being or not being part of a religion, they have done nothing wrong. Talking about the subject in general can not be considered a personal attack.
Besides there are plenty of people who believe that God exist, is a great entity and the spark of all life in the universe. Be it via big bang or however it happened.

They just don’t confess themselves to any religion because they believe that the Bible and the like is the production of small-minded men. Who project their agenda and ideas onto God, claiming it to be his words.
So don’t mix up believing in God and being religious, it doesn’t have to be the same thing.

Two.1627:

If Atheism is the lack of belief how can you get anybody to believe in it?

I’ll try to explain it very easily.
If a person follow any religion, or believe in a deity he is a Theist
If a person doesn’t follow a religion but isn’t sure if he believes in a Deity he is Agnostic.
If a person doesn’t believe in any deity, he is an Atheist.

can this topic get locked already?

Belzebu.3912:

Two.1627:

If Atheism is the lack of belief how can you get anybody to believe in it?

I’ll try to explain it very easily.
If a person follow any religion, he is a Theist
If a person doesn’t follow a religion be believe in a Deity (God, Allah, Vishnu, etc …) he is Agnostic.
If a person doesn’t believe in any deity, he is an Atheist.

There is also Deism.

Grok Krog.9581:

They could say “You are not allowed to play if your hair color is brown” if they wanted to

Actually I think that would be the basis for a whopper of a lawsuit against Anet.

But the point here isnt that Anet can restrict ingame chats. Its that they cant stop players from saying whatever at least once (unless they remove chat).

Red Queen.7915:

Olvendred.3027:

Rhialto.8423:

Two.1627:

Lazaar.9123:

Two.1627:

I understand Atheism less then I understand God/Allah. Seems to be a group of people set on letting everyone else know they are wrong.

Atheism is just the lack of a belief, you are thinking of anti-theism.

If Atheism is the lack of belief how can you get anybody to believe in it?

You don’t believe in atheism. You believe that the explanations for the universe’s phenomena don’t require the existence of a magic ghost that breaks the laws of physics and morality on a whim.

And as far as these logical tricks that you’re trying to play, good luck. The burden of proof is on religion to prove that it’s true, not on me or anyone else to prove that it’s false.

If you do believe that it’s false, however, you are going beyond atheism.

Atheism literally means “without (a) god”, so claiming that a belief system that relies on the existence of one is false doesn’t got beyond atheism, strictly speaking.
What you’re thinking of is probably agnosticism – it basically says that there might or might not be a god (among other things, but the whole god thing is the case at hand), but it’s impossible to prove it either way. Many agnostics do not explicitly believe in a deity of any kind because of this and are thus also atheists, but one doesn’t go hand in hand with the other.

Edit: I see you quoted me in the meantime. My answer is still the same, though one could add that atheism is mostly an individual thing, which only evolves into anti-theism when applied to others. Again, one does not automatically come with the other.

The difference is between “not believing in anything” and “believing in nothing.” In practice, there are a bunch of religions, and you can simply not believe in any of them. However, if you believe that they are false, then you move beyond a lack of belief, and into anti-theism. The huge majority of atheists are also anti-theists.

But yes, I take your point that the distinction is irrelevant without the input of other people.

rapthorne.7345:

can this topic get locked already?

Just be patient. It’s really very civil, especially for the subject matter, so no hurry.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Funny thing is, while the existance of a higher power can’t be disproven, the existance of the christian god can. Many things this god supposedly has done like: create everything in 7 days, put the earth at the center of the universe, start the human race with just one man and one woman and many other things are all proven false.

So even if their god exists, it would not be the god their religion describes.

None of this has been proven false. There are only opposing theories. And the Bible does not state that the earth was placed in the center of the universe. The universe is endless, it has no center.

Science has yet to disprove anything the Bible says. And, a quick FYI, One of Gods days = a millennia on earth. And there is an abundance of archaeological evidence that supports biblical history.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

There is also Deism.

I put Deism with the Theist group, since they believe in a form of God, it just isn’t named by any religion.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Funny thing is, while the existance of a higher power can’t be disproven, the existance of the christian god can. Many things this god supposedly has done like: create everything in 7 days, put the earth at the center of the universe, start the human race with just one man and one woman and many other things are all proven false.

So even if their god exists, it would not be the god their religion describes.

If the Christian God is the same entity as Jesus Christ, then his penchant for using allegory is well established.

This means that all of the things you’ve indicated to be “proven false” could very easily be allegorical. Plus they were written down several centuries after they were alleged to have occurred. Finally, “proven false” is incorrect, as all of those things are currently improvable (unable to be confirmed one way or the other). We consider them to be improbable based on our current understanding of physics and biology, an understanding that changes very frequently as we continue to explore the universe.

I am not an atheist at all, yet when i see any kind of religion being discussed in chat, it makes me nervous. Sometimes it’s just plain freakin’ annoying, other times serious fights happen in chat because of it. People start arguing over it as if they could persuade one another about their views. It’s really childish i think, and it’s kinda like arguing about which colour is the most beautiful; to each their own, and frankly, no one gives a kitten about other ppl’s beliefs. If someone wants to discuss such things, they should do so in whisper.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Funny thing is, while the existance of a higher power can’t be disproven, the existance of the christian god can. Many things this god supposedly has done like: create everything in 7 days, put the earth at the center of the universe, start the human race with just one man and one woman and many other things are all proven false.

So even if their god exists, it would not be the god their religion describes.

Nowhere does the bible say the earth is the center of the universe (the catholic church believed this a very long time ago). And I find it hilarious that you don’t get the entire point of what a god is… A god breaks rules that we understand as humans (hence being a god), thus you can’t disprove through science. Then that loops back around to faith, because it can’t be scientifically proven either.

Yall need talos

You must all be cleansed with fire in the name of R’hllor.

The night is dark and full of terrors.

Olvendred.3027:

Red Queen.7915:

Two.1627:

I do not believe in this Atheism.

You’re quite free not to

Though it makes me wonder how one can believe or “not believe” in a concept that states there is nothing to believe in in the first place.

You also are moving beyond atheism. If the concept states that there is nothing to believe in, then you are denying beliefs that state that there is something to believe in (rather than simply not believing in those beliefs). It’s an important distinction.

Not really. It’s entirely logical to deny theories which can’t be proven false. It’s a common practice in statistics, actually. If there is no null hypothesis then there is no possibility of proof.

I’m atheist and I think any form for discussion to prove their believe is the right really silly.
Religious persons trying to say their religion is the answer, or atheists saying that their point of view is the right one are both just dumb.

Praise it!

/15char/

Message Body length must at least be 15.

Belzebu.3912:

I’m atheist and I think any form for discussion to prove their believe is the right really silly.
Religious persons trying to say their religion is the answer, or atheists saying that their point of view is the right one are both just dumb.

To be fair, everyone holds their personal beliefs because they believe it to be right. No one holds a point of view that they know to be false (not without significant mental issues, I suppose).

Of course the various sides believe themselves to be correct, and as long as you are using words to argue about who is right you are fine. It’s when they go to extreme lengths like killing, forced conversions, and suppression of free speech and freedom of religious practice that they’ve crossed the line from belief into tyranny.

punkinkatt.4823:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Funny thing is, while the existance of a higher power can’t be disproven, the existance of the christian god can. Many things this god supposedly has done like: create everything in 7 days, put the earth at the center of the universe, start the human race with just one man and one woman and many other things are all proven false.

So even if their god exists, it would not be the god their religion describes.

None of this has been proven false. There are only opposing theories. And the Bible does not state that the earth was placed in the center of the universe. The universe is endless, it has no center.

Science has yet to disprove anything the Bible says. And, a quick FYI, One of Gods days = a millennia on earth. And there is an abundance of archaeological evidence that supports biblical history.

“Biblical history” and earth’s entire history being in line with the Bible don’t have to be the same thing. For example, many accept that there was a historical Jesus, though I personally don’t think he was an actual son of a god.
There have been estimates (estimates because some things in the Bible are heavily stylised to help the impact of the story being told and thus are hard to pinpoint) that created a timeline for events described in the Bible and tried to match them to what we know about human history in the last ~10,000 years, and a lot of things don’t add up, like the historical counterparts of the people who supposedly wrote the new testament not being alive when the historical counterpart of Jesus was alive.
Interpretations and how much of the Bible’s (or any other religious book’s) content one takes at face value largely depends on the individual. I’ve talked to people who take things very literally and to people who regard the stories in their respective scriptures as abstract metaphors, to be adapted to the situation one finds themselves in. Since it’s near impossible to prove or disprove the amount of fact in what even at its creation was in part a work of fiction (in that parts had to be made up for lack of eye-witnesses), this debate will likely never end. Unless one day some deity has enough of it and smites us all, at which point any further argument will be moot anyway.

How do I explain this…

Religion comes from books.
People are allowed to discuss books(or movies, or anything they like).
Any books can be discussed, be it Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or the Bible.
Anyone is free to join/not join the discussion of whichever book.
Anyone is free to RP as if the contents of any book exists, be it in real life or on the internet.
Telling people that everything is fake when they are RPing breaks immersion and is therefore considered disruptive and offensive.
Forcing people to live(RP) as if the content of your book exists steps on their freedom and rights. This is a crime against humanity. Terrorism and Dictatorship is a subsection of this.
However, inviting people to RP with you is not a crime. Anyone is free to decline.
A church is a gathering of RPers who like to discuss and RP about the contents of a book called the Holy Bible.

I am not an Atheist
What I believe in:
There is a non-human, evil entity out there.
Every time anyone prays to it, it gains power.
It claims to have created everything in existence(with no proof).
That entity created stupid rules(a.k.a 10 Commandments), and when one breaks them, one has angered it, and committed a “sin” against it. That same entity also created many diseases.
Then that same entity took human form and healed the diseased.
It also stated that it sacrificed itself to forgave people for their sins, but actually faked its death. It just went back to its non-human form.

It is an old bait and switch technique to gain people’s trust.
I break my neighbor’s window by throwing a rock at it in the middle of the night. The next morning, I come and “help” to repair said window. My neighbor thanks me and gives me some cookies for helping. My neighbor starts trusting me, and starts telling people in our area how I am a good and helpful young lady.

In the same way, that evil entity created sins and diseases, then forgave and healed them to make them worship it and gain power, admiration and trust.

That evil entity feeds on souls. Every time you pray(ask the evil entity for something), it feeds on a bit of your soul and gains power. It may/may not give you what you asked for in return, it is somewhat RNG.
When you die, it asks you to surrender your whole soul, and if it has gained your trust, you will probably do so. If it eats your whole soul, you cannot re-incarnate.
If you are tired of life anyway, and would like to sell your soul, you might as well sell it to that entity’s worst enemy, who is sure to give you a lot for it. It is better than playing RNG with the evil entity with bits of your soul at a time.

Otherwise, keep your soul tight and live thousands of years through different lives, like me.

tom cruise approves this thread.

Iä iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!

mtpelion.4562:

Belzebu.3912:

I’m atheist and I think any form for discussion to prove their believe is the right really silly.
Religious persons trying to say their religion is the answer, or atheists saying that their point of view is the right one are both just dumb.

To be fair, everyone holds their personal beliefs because they believe it to be right. No one holds a point of view that they know to be false (not without significant mental issues, I suppose).

Of course the various sides believe themselves to be correct, and as long as you are using words to argue about who is right you are fine. It’s when they go to extreme lengths like killing, forced conversions, and suppression of free speech and freedom of religious practice that they’ve crossed the line from belief into tyranny.

I agree.
When I said “discussion” I meant the more aggressive way, just a discussion is ok, but it is so rare to discuss such subject without getting out of hand.

Oxidia.8103:

Yall need talos

Nah Dibella is better. I remember the first time I walked into one of Her temples in Daggerfall and was all like O__O… Yeah, this is my kind of church.

mtpelion.4562:

If the Christian God is the same entity as Jesus Christ, then his penchant for using allegory is well established.

This means that all of the things you’ve indicated to be “proven false” could very easily be allegorical. Plus they were written down several centuries after they were alleged to have occurred. Finally, “proven false” is incorrect, as all of those things are currently improvable (unable to be confirmed one way or the other). We consider them to be improbable based on our current understanding of physics and biology, an understanding that changes very frequently as we continue to explore the universe.

Jesus was/is not God… He is the Son of God. He used parables (stories) to teach His various lessons. The stories were not true, that doesn’t mean that His teachings weren’t. And, I assume, since you mentioned Jesus, that you’re referring to the books of the new testament when you said “written down several centuries later”. Not true. The books were written by those who knew Jesus. His disciples.

as someone who does choose to believe there may be something bigger than us out there, I am also actually offended by most of the “God talk” in chat, simply because it does not come across as someone who is truly expressing something they believe, but instead is mocking something they don’t.

As far as “should Anet do anything about it?” Of course not. They gave us all the tools necessary to not have to deal with it, it’s easy enough to not look at your chat box, and if you can’t, you can always just block the person. I usually do.

Oxidia.8103:

Yall need talos

Talos the mighty! Talos the unerring! Talos the unassailable! To you we give praise!
We are but maggots, writhing in the filth of our own corruption! While you have ascended from the dung of mortality, and now walk among the stars!

But you were once man! Aye! And as man, you said, “Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.” [note 1]

Aye, love. Love! Even as man, great Talos cherished us. For he saw in us, in each of us, the future of Skyrim! The future of Tamriel!

And there it is, friends! The ugly truth! We are the children of man! Talos is the true god of man! Ascended from flesh, to rule the realm of spirit!

The very idea is inconceivable to our Elven overlords! Sharing the heavens with us? With man? Ha! They can barely tolerate our presence on earth!

Today, they take away your faith. But what of tomorrow? Do the elves take your homes? Your businesses? Your children? Your very lives?

And what does the Empire do? Nothing! Nay, worse than nothing! The Imperial machine enforces the will of the Thalmor! Against its own people!

So rise up! Rise up, children of the Empire! Rise up, Stormcloaks! Embrace the word of mighty Talos, he who is both man and Divine!

For we are the children of man! And we shall inherit both the heavens and the earth! And we, not the Elves or their toadies, will rule Skyrim! Forever!

Terrible and powerful Talos! We, your unworthy servants, give praise! For only through your grace and benevolence may we truly reach enlightenment!

And deserve our praise you do, for we are one! Ere you ascended and the Eight became Nine, you walked among us, great Talos, not as god, but as man!

Trust in me, Whiterun! Trust in the words of Heimskr! For I am the chosen of Talos! I alone have been anointed by the Ninth to spread his holy word!

(Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. >_>)

i still believe the sky will fall on my head because i used the wrong leg first in the morning to stand up.

punkinkatt.4823:

mtpelion.4562:

If the Christian God is the same entity as Jesus Christ, then his penchant for using allegory is well established.

This means that all of the things you’ve indicated to be “proven false” could very easily be allegorical. Plus they were written down several centuries after they were alleged to have occurred. Finally, “proven false” is incorrect, as all of those things are currently improvable (unable to be confirmed one way or the other). We consider them to be improbable based on our current understanding of physics and biology, an understanding that changes very frequently as we continue to explore the universe.

Jesus was/is not God… He is the Son of God.

Unless you grew up in certain churches where God is God the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost/Spirit all combined into one. Or Unitarianism. Or other things.

I worship Balthazar while in Guild Wars, and sacrifice goats to Wodan IRL. Come at me m9

Oh my lyssa you are kitten even dwayna would play better.

RoseofGilead.8907:

punkinkatt.4823:

mtpelion.4562:

If the Christian God is the same entity as Jesus Christ, then his penchant for using allegory is well established.

This means that all of the things you’ve indicated to be “proven false” could very easily be allegorical. Plus they were written down several centuries after they were alleged to have occurred. Finally, “proven false” is incorrect, as all of those things are currently improvable (unable to be confirmed one way or the other). We consider them to be improbable based on our current understanding of physics and biology, an understanding that changes very frequently as we continue to explore the universe.

Jesus was/is not God… He is the Son of God.

Unless you grew up in certain churches where God is God the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost/Spirit all combined into one. Or Unitarianism. Or other things.

Yup! But that just proves the varied interpretations of the Bible. It would be wrong for me to say I am right and those who believe this way are wrong. That’s why there are so many various denominations. I am non-denominational. I don’t belong to any specific church… I have agreements with all and I have disagreements with all. To me, the Bible is clear and needs no interpretation. It says what it says and I believe it.

punkinkatt.4823:

mtpelion.4562:

If the Christian God is the same entity as Jesus Christ, then his penchant for using allegory is well established.

This means that all of the things you’ve indicated to be “proven false” could very easily be allegorical. Plus they were written down several centuries after they were alleged to have occurred. Finally, “proven false” is incorrect, as all of those things are currently improvable (unable to be confirmed one way or the other). We consider them to be improbable based on our current understanding of physics and biology, an understanding that changes very frequently as we continue to explore the universe.

Jesus was/is not God… He is the Son of God. He used parables (stories) to teach His various lessons. The stories were not true, that doesn’t mean that His teachings weren’t. And, I assume, since you mentioned Jesus, that you’re referring to the books of the new testament when you said “written down several centuries later”. Not true. The books were written by those who knew Jesus. His disciples.

There are many Christian sects that hold a Trinitarian view (that God consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

And yes, I was referring to the fact that Jesus used parables to teach concepts, which suggests that the earliest Old Testament texts (the ones that were written down several centuries after the fact by Moses) could likewise be parables (i.e. allegories not intended to be taken literally).

Oxidia.8103:

Yall need talos

Best post in this entire thread. You, sir, are awesome!

Sigh. You fed the troll. OP hasn’t posted a single reply since his/her original message. What a time to be alive.

Lord Arhan Warmark.7098:

Sigh. You fed the troll. OP hasn’t posted a single reply since his/her original message. What a time to be alive.

Check the original post.

I just think of GOD as being everything. That way, it seems to apply to many religions, and I don’t get offended. Sure, I don’t believe in a man in the sky, or a prophet for the universe, but I do think that all things are tied to each other. I study the sciences, and see evidence of cause and effect, an endless series of links tying together all things. I simply label that cohesiveness “GOD” and feel content to know that I am a part of it, and that it is in all things. Understanding that my actions affect the world, pushes me to be a better person and not act carelessly. I speak to God, when I see my neighbor or when I watch a plant grow. I see the stars as being part of a distant chain. (and no I don’t believe in astrology, as I don’t think humans understand these far chains) But I don’t deny that if all things in my life are affected by what is around me, than this principle most likely flows through the universe. If one could grasp its entirety, they would become aware of God. But, regardless, these are just words that we as humans have agreed upon. God can be called anything, so long as we are referring to the same idea and principle. I pray to the universe, but mostly to remind myself that I am a part of something greater.

I hope this helps you not feel offended as an atheist when people talk about God as it has helped me. I don’t even consider myself an atheist anymore since adopting this philosophy. I’m a human being, searching for greater systems to study, hoping to continue to piece together the mysteries of the universe. Accepting that this thing, while a part of me is also greater has helped me be happier, and live a more fulfilling life.

Good luck, and try not to let other peoples beliefs upset you. Unless they believe in needless harm to others. I think when people advocate violence, it becomes time to have an important discussion. And feelings of that nature can’t simply be ignored.

Loboling.

Seriously, how is this thread still going?

Oh my…. I need popcorn. Where’d I put my popcorn?!

April 1 coming!

stale.9785:

Seriously, how is this thread still going?

You should go to Comicon sometime. Spiderman does exist and you can even hug him.

For you, Lanfear! Anything for you!

mtpelion.4562:

punkinkatt.4823:

mtpelion.4562:

If the Christian God is the same entity as Jesus Christ, then his penchant for using allegory is well established.

This means that all of the things you’ve indicated to be “proven false” could very easily be allegorical. Plus they were written down several centuries after they were alleged to have occurred. Finally, “proven false” is incorrect, as all of those things are currently improvable (unable to be confirmed one way or the other). We consider them to be improbable based on our current understanding of physics and biology, an understanding that changes very frequently as we continue to explore the universe.

Jesus was/is not God… He is the Son of God. He used parables (stories) to teach His various lessons. The stories were not true, that doesn’t mean that His teachings weren’t. And, I assume, since you mentioned Jesus, that you’re referring to the books of the new testament when you said “written down several centuries later”. Not true. The books were written by those who knew Jesus. His disciples.

There are many Christian sects that hold a Trinitarian view (that God consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

And yes, I was referring to the fact that Jesus used parables to teach concepts, which suggests that the earliest Old Testament texts (the ones that were written down several centuries after the fact by Moses) could likewise be parables (i.e. allegories not intended to be taken literally).

Moses was the only man in Biblical history to speak to God directly. He had a knowledge that no other human was ever privy too. But just because the old testament books were written down centuries after, say, the creation of the earth and Adam and Eve, doesn’t mean he used parables for everything. Moses was a living, walking history book.