Guild Wars 2

So, what happens to characters who’d already unlocked every skill and trait in the game?
How about people who had 100% map completion and had done every skill challenge?

Do all characters start off with everything locked and a number of hero points equivalent to the things they’ve already done to earn them? That seems most likely from what we know so far.

Most likely, since it’s a completely new system, everyone will be respecced.

If you are level 80 with map completion then you will have enough points to unlock everything, period. If you are sub 80 or have not at least gotten all the skill points in map completion then you may not have enough points to unlock everything.

Awww man. So this means I gotta do map completion? flops But I hate Orr!!!

You just need to complete the skill points, nothing else.

Jinroh.4251:

Awww man. So this means I gotta do map completion? flops But I hate Orr!!!

EVERYBODY DO THE FLOP!

Done map completion 3 times, wouldn’t mind doing it again.. but NEVER AGAIN ON A MESMER. NEVER. AGAIN. Oh the horrors.

I don’t know how I feel about this. On one hand, maybe it’ll give me a reason to want to do map completion on more characters without hating myself.

On the other hand, I don’t like the idea of being stripped of all of my abilities, and being forced to re-unlock them all. Assuming that’s what they’re doing, of course.

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system. I have nine level 80s at this point, and while one of them has map completion, the others are really a half-fast mix of various achievements, and I really have ZERO interest in taking them all on a scavenger hunt all over Tyria just to get them back to where they are today, while at the same time trying to level my Revenant and max out 1-2 mains in Maguuma Masteries. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

If you have unlocked every single skill, but haven’t unlocked all the skill points, you probably won’t have enough to do that again. If you’ve only unlocked the handful of skill points you need and have completed a fair selection of skill points there is a good chance you will be able to recreate that specific build.

Ohoni.6057:

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system. I have nine level 80s at this point, and while one of them has map completion, the others are really a half-fast mix of various achievements, and I really have ZERO interest in taking them all on a scavenger hunt all over Tyria just to get them back to where they are today, while at the same time trying to level my Revenant and max out 1-2 mains in Maguuma Masteries. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Then flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

It will seriously behoove Anet to grandfather in level 80s with all the traits unlocked into this new system.

Simply put, if my engie was forced to have to re-unlock traits just to be playable again they will make uninstalling the game the easiest decision in the world for me.

Then flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

No, they can grandfather people if they like, just like they did with the previous trait overhaul (where I had a level 30 character when the change was made, and he retained all traits auto-unlocked even though he hadn’t earned most of them).

What I fully expect, and will be immensely cross to find out otherwise, is that every level 80 character you have before HoT launches will enter HoT with ALL pre-existing traits and skills unlocked, and with only the new Spec line to go.

Further, every sub-80 character, who currently only has a portion of their skills unlocked, should either A: at least retain every skill they already have unlocked, even if they are placed higher up in some progression stack than abilities they have not yet unlocked OR B: they also have all skills automatically unlocked, and it’s only completely rerolled characters that have to participate in this new system.

ANet should NOT remove ANY abilities that a player has already unlocked under any circumstances.

Ohoni.6057:

Then flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

No, they can grandfather people if they like, just like they did with the previous trait overhaul (where I had a level 30 character when the change was made, and he retained all traits auto-unlocked even though he hadn’t earned most of them).

What I fully expect, and will be immensely cross to find out otherwise, is that every level 80 character you have before HoT launches will enter HoT with ALL pre-existing traits and skills unlocked, and with only the new Spec line to go.

Further, every sub-80 character, who currently only has a portion of their skills unlocked, should either A: at least retain every skill they already have unlocked, even if they are placed higher up in some progression stack than abilities they have not yet unlocked OR B: they also have all skills automatically unlocked, and it’s only completely rerolled characters that have to participate in this new system.

ANet should NOT remove ANY abilities that a player has already unlocked under any circumstances.

hero points are limited quanity now.
they basically equal your charachers skill points from leveling 1-80 and all the skill challenges you did.

the only way to grandfather with that as a basis is automatically completing skill points for you.
which would be auto map completion.

not impossible, but fairly unlikely.

however they may change the design if enough people are kittened

Ohoni.6057:

ANet should NOT remove ANY abilities that a player has already unlocked under any circumstances.

As we keep trying to tell you, you have not, and CAN not (currently), unlock these abilities. They aren’t in the game yet.

they basically equal your charachers skill points from leveling 1-80 and all the skill challenges you did.

Have they confirmed that current skill point chevrons in the world == hero points? My reading of the material I’ve seen on the matter is that you’ll get a certain amount of hero points via leveling, and there will be tasks in the world that will grant hero points, but it was unclear whether those vague tasks would definitely be the things that currently reward skill points. It’s possible that many existing SPs in the world will be removed or altered in the new system, or instead reward the new crafting currency rather than hero points.

My impression was that hero points might more relate to what are currently trait-unlocking activities rather than SP chevrons.

As we keep trying to tell you, you have not, and CAN not (currently), unlock these abilities. They aren’t in the game yet.

Either you’re wrong or you’re engaging in semantics. the game currently has an Ele trait called “Soothing Disruption.” According to the article, the post-HoT game will have a trait with the same name and nearly identical function. If I have that trait unlocked today, I expect to also have that trait unlocked after HoT launches without having to run out and do some arbitrary busywork.

Likewise, there is currently a “Conjure Earth Shield” skill, and likely will also be one after HoT. If I have that unlocked now, then I fully expect to have it unlocked day one after HoT, even if they place it at the top of the Earth Magic circle and I haven’t bothered to unlock other Earth magic skills along the way that I did not need.

Now, the brand NEW spec trees, the stuff that we truly do not have yet, and any new skills they choose to add, those I fully expect to have to work to unlock, and look forward to it, but I don’t care to start HoT in kitten.

Basically, players should not be expected to put in additional work to maintain their current level of effectiveness, only to gain additional abilities.

and btw, if the ONLY way they can grandfather in existing characters is to give them 100% World Completion on the SP segment, then that’s definitely what they should be planning to do. It might seem like a big gift, but skill points only make up about 10% of total world completion, and is one of the easier portions to complete, so it’s not like it would make overall World Completion trivial.

Ohoni.6057:

they basically equal your charachers skill points from leveling 1-80 and all the skill challenges you did.

Have they confirmed that current skill point chevrons in the world == hero points? My reading of the material I’ve seen on the matter is that you’ll get a certain amount of hero points via leveling, and there will be tasks in the world that will grant hero points, but it was unclear whether those vague tasks would definitely be the things that currently reward skill points. It’s possible that many existing SPs in the world will be removed or altered in the new system, or instead reward the new crafting currency rather than hero points.

My impression was that hero points might more relate to what are currently trait-unlocking activities rather than SP chevrons.

As we keep trying to tell you, you have not, and CAN not (currently), unlock these abilities. They aren’t in the game yet.

Either you’re wrong or you’re engaging in semantics. the game currently has an Ele trait called “Soothing Disruption.” According to the article, the post-HoT game will have a trait with the same name and nearly identical function. If I have that trait unlocked today, I expect to also have that trait unlocked after HoT launches without having to run out and do some arbitrary busywork.

Likewise, there is currently a “Conjure Earth Shield” skill, and likely will also be one after HoT. If I have that unlocked now, then I fully expect to have it unlocked day one after HoT, even if they place it at the top of the Earth Magic circle and I haven’t bothered to unlock other Earth magic skills along the way that I did not need.

Now, the brand NEW spec trees, the stuff that we truly do not have yet, and any new skills they choose to add, those I fully expect to have to work to unlock, and look forward to it, but I don’t care to start HoT in kitten.

Basically, players should not be expected to put in additional work to maintain their current level of effectiveness, only to gain additional abilities.

“Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges (these will become known as hero challenges) and leveling up.”

skill challenges are the chevrons.

" A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits."

implies they are talking about an existing charachter here. which means that they will mostly be the existing challenges

Ok, so if they are just skill challenges then it looks like they’ll have to plan on just unlocking all skill challenges on existing characters whether you’ve done them on that character or not, because the alternative would not be pleasant.

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, so if they are just skill challenges then it looks like they’ll have to plan on just unlocking all skill challenges on existing characters whether you’ve done them on that character or not, because the alternative would not be pleasant.

unless they divorce them from map completion, or make map completion account bound, that seems unlikely

Again, it wouldn’t be a big deal. SPs only make up 10% of map completion, you’d still need to do the other 90%. It’s a small price to pay when compared to robbing tons of characters who made use of skill scrolls or used their SPs frugally of their favorite skills.

Ohoni.6057:

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system. I have nine level 80s at this point, and while one of them has map completion, the others are really a half-fast mix of various achievements, and I really have ZERO interest in taking them all on a scavenger hunt all over Tyria just to get them back to where they are today, while at the same time trying to level my Revenant and max out 1-2 mains in Maguuma Masteries. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Nooooo, don’t flip the kitten table!! Think of all the kittens that might get injured in the process! :’(

Oh, it shall be flipped if necessary. Every kitten for itself.

I’m seeing the real reason skill point scrolls are getting turned into Mystic Toilet fodder now. . . .

Ohoni.6057:

Then flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

No, they can grandfather people if they like, just like they did with the previous trait overhaul (where I had a level 30 character when the change was made, and he retained all traits auto-unlocked even though he hadn’t earned most of them).

What I fully expect, and will be immensely cross to find out otherwise, is that every level 80 character you have before HoT launches will enter HoT with ALL pre-existing traits and skills unlocked, and with only the new Spec line to go.

Further, every sub-80 character, who currently only has a portion of their skills unlocked, should either A: at least retain every skill they already have unlocked, even if they are placed higher up in some progression stack than abilities they have not yet unlocked OR B: they also have all skills automatically unlocked, and it’s only completely rerolled characters that have to participate in this new system.

ANet should NOT remove ANY abilities that a player has already unlocked under any circumstances.

No actually they can’t. The previous overhaul didn’t change how the system functioned it only changed how those traits were acquired and when they unlocked. The new system will change every single aspect of the system. When and how traits are unlocked, how they are implemented, where they are implemented, what the traits even are. Every single thing will be redone from scratch. Therefore there is nothing to grandfather in.

The old system was grandfathered into the current system in the same way that old armor skins were grandfathered into the wardrobe system. You already have it? Good, keep it.

This is not the same thing. Also, yes, they have pointed it out in several places in both of the blogs that came out today that Skill Points = Hero Points. Skill Challenges = Hero Challenges. With the new system we won’t be able to gain skill points after level 80.

The number of skill points you have after the transition will equal (# of skill points acquired up to character level) + (# of skill challenges completed on character) All skill points in excess of that number will be converted into Mystic Forge materials.

If that number does not equal the amount of points you need to unlock all your stuff, in the new system, you can’t have everything you had in the current system until you get more points. Period.

No grandfathering.

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, so if they are just skill challenges then it looks like they’ll have to plan on just unlocking all skill challenges on existing characters whether you’ve done them on that character or not, because the alternative would not be pleasant.

Why would they do that? If you want to make sure you have enough points come the new system, go do it. They’ve given you ample time to prepare. It’s not their problem if you don’t.

It’s also not their problem if you lose access to anything or everything about your character because the new system strips you down. That is just how it goes.

No actually they can’t. The previous overhaul didn’t change how the system functioned it only changed how those traits were acquired and when they unlocked. The new system will change every single aspect of the system. When and how traits are unlocked, how they are implemented, where they are implemented, what the traits even are. Every single thing will be redone from scratch. Therefore there is nothing to grandfather in.

Well look, ANet are the ones deciding to make this change. Nobody’s forcing them to, nobody’s even asking them to. It’s their call, and so it is their responsibility to make it right.

“Hey, we changed things, so now half the skills you had are locked and it’ll take you hours, if not weeks of YOUR time to bring them all back, good luck” is not making it right. I know that some of you are down for anything ANet decides for no better reason than that they decided it, but just understand that nothing you can say will convince everyone else to join you in that choice.

I don’t know how it’ll shake out, but they need to make it right somehow.

Plenty of people have asked them to change things because the current trait system sucks.

Plenty of people have asked them to change things because the current trait system sucks.

Well yes obviously the current system sucks (if you’re leveling a character that wasn’t grandfathered into it), but the solution was to revert it to the previous system that sucked less, not to press forward into new and potentially dangerous territory. They seem to think this new system is better, but remember they thought the first overhaul was better too, and look how that turned out.

They new system might indeed be better, to early to say, but they can’t implement it if it comes at the expense of removing existing skills and traits that players have already earned.

Why not wait till we see it, or at least know more about before all the hand wringing? At this point, this is pretty much all just speculation.

Ohoni.6057:

Well yes obviously the current system sucks (if you’re leveling a character that wasn’t grandfathered into it), but the solution was to revert it to the previous system that sucked less, not to press forward into new and potentially dangerous territory. They seem to think this new system is better, but remember they thought the first overhaul was better too, and look how that turned out.

They seem to be pretty proud of the pressing forward into dangerous territory thing so don’t expect them to stop any time soon.

That aside the original system got its share of complaints too. IIRC mostly for being a bit too bland.

Why not wait till we see it, or at least know more about before all the hand wringing? At this point, this is pretty much all just speculation.

I know you’re trying to be helpful, but “why not wait and see” is never helpful. We need to express our opinions, whatever they might be, at the earliest possible opportunity. The longer we wait, the longer it will take them to act upon those opinions. If we’re completely wrong here, if they already have a solution in mind, then no harm done, but if they were laboring under the delusion that they could remove currently unlocked skills from characters and not catch trouble for it, then we’re giving them fair notice in advance and they can get to work on the inevitable solution sooner rather than later.

It’s never of benefit to procrastinate.

They seem to be pretty proud of the pressing forward into dangerous territory thing so don’t expect them to stop any time soon.

That’s what Amelia Earhart said.

So much for having maxed out Revenants within minutes of the expansion going live.

Ayrilana.1396:

So much for having maxed out Revenants within minutes of the expansion going live.

I wondered about that too. You can tome them to 80 I guess, and getting to 80 will give them a lump of points. It might be OK. But not maxed, yeah.

Incoming level 80 Revenant train through low level zones to hit all hero challenges.

Zagzag.7901:

So, what happens to characters who’d already unlocked every skill and trait in the game?
How about people who had 100% map completion and had done every skill challenge?

Do all characters start off with everything locked and a number of hero points equivalent to the things they’ve already done to earn them? That seems most likely from what we know so far.

short story: we don’t know; we’ll have to wait for more details to find out

Ohoni.6057:

Why not wait till we see it, or at least know more about before all the hand wringing? At this point, this is pretty much all just speculation.

I know you’re trying to be helpful, but “why not wait and see” is never helpful. We need to express our opinions, whatever they might be, at the earliest possible opportunity. The longer we wait, the longer it will take them to act upon those opinions. If we’re completely wrong here, if they already have a solution in mind, then no harm done, but if they were laboring under the delusion that they could remove currently unlocked skills from characters and not catch trouble for it, then we’re giving them fair notice in advance and they can get to work on the inevitable solution sooner rather than later.

It’s never of benefit to procrastinate.

However, “wait and see” right now means “wait until tomorrow afternoon once the AMA is done to see what concerns have been allayed, which remain, and what new ones may have arisen.” That’s not procrastination, that’s further information gathering before forming conclusions based on partial data.

I’m not going on a skill challenge binge on my non-world-complete alts until I see what’s what in the AMA.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Zagzag.7901:

So, what happens to characters who’d already unlocked every skill and trait in the game?
How about people who had 100% map completion and had done every skill challenge?

Do all characters start off with everything locked and a number of hero points equivalent to the things they’ve already done to earn them? That seems most likely from what we know so far.

short story: we don’t know; we’ll have to wait for more details to find out

These “more details” will be coming tomorrow in the Points of Interest stream to answer questions about the new system. This question seemed like an important one to be answered in the show, so I asked it on the forums where Anet can see it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Zagzag.7901:

So, what happens to characters who’d already unlocked every skill and trait in the game?
How about people who had 100% map completion and had done every skill challenge?

Do all characters start off with everything locked and a number of hero points equivalent to the things they’ve already done to earn them? That seems most likely from what we know so far.

short story: we don’t know; we’ll have to wait for more details to find out

actually these were implicitly answered;

“A level 80 character that’s done none of the hero challenges should be able to unlock more than enough skills, "

this would be a player who unlocked everything already but did no skill challenges.

" A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits."
this is a person who was 80 and had done every skill challenge

neither of these was likely to be a new charachter because they wouldnt be level 80. This passage is basically about how they currently want to handle existing level 80s, most likely.

They may change the plan if they get a lot of negative feedback though

phys.7689:

" A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits."

implies they are talking about an existing charachter here. which means that they will mostly be the existing challenges

The way I read it, it also implies that you need nowhere near all hero challenges in the game to unlock everything.

disclaimer: the following is pure speculation on my part
Going from this image of the new profession reward tracks, it looks like they’re currently planning for around 16 trait unlocks in the water magic reward track (3 minor, 4 adept, 4 master, 5 grandmaster). Five core specialisations per class makes that ~80 hero points to unlock all core traits. Each class has around 6 skill categories with an average of 6 (1 heal, 4 utility, 1 elite) skills belonging to each category, with comes down to roughly 36 hero points needed for the skill category reward tracks. Adding those, we’ll end up at somewhere around 116 hero points to fully unlock all the core reward tracks (trait lines and skills).

Currently, leveling a character to 80 gives you 68 skill points plus two 1-point skills (one heal, one utility), so it would be fair to expect a level 80 character with no hero challenges to have access to 70 hero points in the new system. That leaves another 46 hero challenges required to unlock all the core traits and skills. Even if that number doubles by requiring more than one point to unlock e.g. the higher-level elite skills, we’re still a good bit below the 200+ skill challenges currently in game.

Rasimir.6239:

phys.7689:

" A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits."

implies they are talking about an existing charachter here. which means that they will mostly be the existing challenges

The way I read it, it also implies that you need nowhere near all hero challenges in the game to unlock everything.

disclaimer: the following is pure speculation on my part
Going from this image of the new profession reward tracks, it looks like they’re currently planning for around 16 trait unlocks in the water magic reward track (3 minor, 4 adept, 4 master, 5 grandmaster). Five core specialisations per class makes that ~80 hero points to unlock all core traits. Each class has around 6 skill categories with an average of 6 (1 heal, 4 utility, 1 elite) skills belonging to each category, with comes down to roughly 36 hero points needed for the skill category reward tracks. Adding those, we’ll end up at somewhere around 116 hero points to fully unlock all the core reward tracks (trait lines and skills).

Currently, leveling a character to 80 gives you 68 skill points plus two 1-point skills (one heal, one utility), so it would be fair to expect a level 80 character with no hero challenges to have access to 70 hero points in the new system. That leaves another 46 hero challenges required to unlock all the core traits and skills. Even if that number doubles by requiring more than one point to unlock e.g. the higher-level elite skills, we’re still a good bit below the 200+ skill challenges currently in game.

its unlikely they will limit hero point amounts, and then have you have extra ones you cant do anything with

notice they said someone with a fair amount would be able to unlock CORE specialization/skills/traits

this means the rest will likely be what you need to unlock elite stuff.

so either the elite costs a lot, or the elite costs almost the same, and a fair amount =5/6 your total amount of skill points.
so essentially if you hit 80, and do 3/4th the available skill challenges, you will have enough for all core specs. The one 4th left will be about enough for unlocking the elite.
if everything stays even, you are looking at 46 skill points per spec/skill/traits

However, “wait and see” right now means “wait until tomorrow afternoon once the AMA is done to see what concerns have been allayed, which remain, and what new ones may have arisen.” That’s not procrastination, that’s further information gathering before forming conclusions based on partial data.

And again, there’s really no benefit to that. If the AMA includes information that alleviates these concerns, then fantastic. If it does not, then raising the concerns yesterday is no worse than raising them today. Worst case scenario, we’ve misread the situation and wasted some time discussing a possibility that will not come to pass. Best case scenario, by raising the concern we’ve led to internal discussions that will at least lead to a more informative AMA on the subject. In either case, no harm done.

Nobody is saying “I’ve made up my mind based on current information and will refuse to buy HoT and quit the game.” All anyone has said is that the currently available information raises potential concerns for which we would like official solutions at the earliest opportunity.

“A level 80 character that’s done none of the hero challenges should be able to unlock more than enough skills, "

this would be a player who unlocked everything already but did no skill challenges.

But it’s unclear what “more than enough” means to ANet. My understanding of the next system is that you cannot choose anything ala-carte, that all skills and traits are part of a “track”, meaning that you cannot unlock any of the skills ANet has placed at the back end of a track without investing points into all the abilities prior to it, whether you have any interest in slotting those abilities or not. This could lead to situations in which a character could have plenty of points to unlock, say, 80%+ of the total available skills, which seems good on paper, but in practice perhaps is missing half or more of the actual abilities he wanted to be using, because ANet placed them all deep in those tracks.

In any case, if a player has unlocked 100% of his currently available skills and traits, he should not lose a single one of them in the transition.

I’ll again note that while I have at least one level 80 with world completion, most of my level 80s aren’t even close. I have spent my SPs efficiently, only buying those skills that I actually wanted to use, or that were necessary to unlock those tiers, so there are plenty of skills I never bothered with. And given the abundance of skill scrolls (I have more than one stack just sitting in the bank), I never put any priority on clearing SPs in the world with most of my characters, so if the game switches to a focus on the open world SPs, most of my characters would end up with maybe a dozen or two SPs on top of whatever their level 80 allotment would be.

I would be very interested to see ANet’s metrics on how many of the level 80 characters in the game (characters, not players) have half or more of the in-world SPs unlocked.

Are Hero Points going to be limited or not?

Doubtless many if not most of us have characters that have leveled hundreds of times, and this is a source of a good portion of the Skill Points we have or have used. Part 2 of the Primer says, “Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges . . . and leveling up.” It furthermore states that a typically experienced level 80 will have sufficient points to unlock “all of the core” stuff (emphasis mine), suggesting that unlocking the new bits may require more.

But if unlocking everything demands full map-comp-worth of SP’s, well, that’s a pretty steep expectation. On the other hand, if we are expected to gather Hero Points in excess of what is necessary to unlock everything, then are we storing them for future specializations? This leads us to ask: Do we keep gaining them for levels gained while 80? If not, then doesn’t that set a cap on how many specializations can be included (or else require shoehorning in more challenges)? If so, then doesn’t that mean Hero Points are unlimited?

Ocosh.5843:

Are Hero Points going to be limited or not?

Doubtless many if not most of us have characters that have leveled hundreds of times, and this is a source of a good portion of the Skill Points we have or have used. Part 2 of the Primer says, “Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges . . . and leveling up.” It furthermore states that a typically experienced level 80 will have sufficient points to unlock “all of the core” stuff (emphasis mine), suggesting that unlocking the new bits may require more.

But if unlocking everything demands full map-comp-worth of SP’s, well, that’s a pretty steep expectation. On the other hand, if we are expected to gather Hero Points in excess of what is necessary to unlock everything, then are we storing them for future specializations? This leads us to ask: Do we keep gaining them for levels gained while 80? If not, then doesn’t that set a cap on how many specializations can be included (or else require shoehorning in more challenges)? If so, then doesn’t that mean Hero Points are unlimited?

they said a level 80 will be able to unlock enough to make several full builds, that doesnt mean you have unlocked most options

Ayrilana.1396:

So much for having maxed out Revenants within minutes of the expansion going live.

Maxed out everything? No. Maxed LvL 80? Yes.

Ohoni.6057:

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system.

Same here. I ain’t doing that again.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Ayrilana.1396:

So much for having maxed out Revenants within minutes of the expansion going live.

Maxed out everything? No. Maxed LvL 80? Yes.

Ohoni.6057:

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system.

Same here. I ain’t doing that again.

Again, they can’t grandfather you in. The best they can do is give you all the points you would have earned under the new system and let you spend them just like anyone else. If you have enough points to buy everything you need for your builds then you’re good to go. If you do not then too bad, so sad, you need to go get more points to get back to your previous status.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Again, they can’t grandfather you in. The best they can do is give you all the points you would have earned under the new system and let you spend them just like anyone else.

Well, to me that’s pretty much grandfathered in if they are going to give me all the points I would have earned under the new system. I’d be ok with that. Besides, I only use 1-2 builds on each of my toons since the only things I do in GW2 is WBT and Fractals/Dungeons… So… Nevermind, I just run DPS build and that’s it so as long as I have enough points to do that, I’m good.

I am sure they will grandfather in all the completed skill challenges for each alt. They sort of have to, short of resetting all the challenges for everyone (cue epic firestorm).

What’s not clear to me is whether having skills and traits unlocked by other means (vendor purchase, skill scroll use) will be grandfathered in. I’m cool with a trait reset — one is inevitable as we simply won’t have the same system or trait distribution — so long as I have as full access to my traits as before, ie I get as many points to spend as will get me equivalent trait/skill unlock completion.

Kal Spiro.9745:

IThen flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

Nah, they could do several things. ¹ Any character of a high enough level to have the GM traits unlocked could get them all. ² Give you hero points pased on the traits you do have, and let people re-buy traits. ³ Use your total XP to guesstimate a number of Hero points…

Donari.5237:

I am sure they will grandfather in all the completed skill challenges for each alt. They sort of have to, short of resetting all the challenges for everyone (cue epic firestorm).

What’s not clear to me is whether having skills and traits unlocked by other means (vendor purchase, skill scroll use) will be grandfathered in. I’m cool with a trait reset — one is inevitable as we simply won’t have the same system or trait distribution — so long as I have as full access to my traits as before, ie I get as many points to spend as will get me equivalent trait/skill unlock completion.

The answer is no. This is why I’m saying they won’t be grandfathering anyone in. If you want to take their conversion of earned points as grandfathering, then fine, but that’s not grandfathering.

Grandfathering is saying, you already have this skill and trait, so even though you need to go through this process to get them in the new system you can just have them remain unlocked.

That’s not how it’s going to work, it can’t work that way because this could break the system on them.

In the new system you will have a mastery type line for skill groups and for trait lines. You will have to spend hero points (read skill points) on each line to get each skill and trait in a linear fashion. If you use skill X from the signet line you will have to work through the signet line until you get to skill X, buying each skill before skill X whether you want it or not. This is the specific reason why unlocking the skills you already have might break their system. I would not put it past ANet to design this is such a way that if you already have skill X unlocked you won’t be able to get to skill Y and Z after you unlock skill W.

So they’re going to give you only the skill points you’ve unlocked from leveling to whatever level you are based on the current system, and however many skill challenges you’ve completed. From there you need to work through all the mastery lines to unlock whatever it is you can get.

If you’re level 80 and you’ve completed every skill challenge you can unlock everything, period.

If you do not then too bad, so sad, you need to go get more points to get back to your previous status.

But that is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. If I have all the points I need right now to have all the skills I want, and then after HoT I no longer have all the points I need to have all the skills I want, then they have taken something away that I previously had, and don’t you dare try to argue otherwise. They have resulted in a net downgrade of my playing experience, and basic customer relations dictates that when you cause a net customer loss for your own purposes, no matter how necessary, you compensate them for that negative experience.

In the new system you will have a mastery type line for skill groups and for trait lines. You will have to spend hero points (read skill points) on each line to get each skill and trait in a linear fashion. If you use skill X from the signet line you will have to work through the signet line until you get to skill X, buying each skill before skill X whether you want it or not. This is the specific reason why unlocking the skills you already have might break their system. I would not put it past ANet to design this is such a way that if you already have skill X unlocked you won’t be able to get to skill Y and Z after you unlock skill W.

And if this is true, then they will have to give all existing level 80s ALL the Hero Points, enough to unlock every tree other than the new one, whether they currently have them all or not. They have to grandfather players in, that is not optional, however they have to do it.

Ohoni.6057:

If you do not then too bad, so sad, you need to go get more points to get back to your previous status.

But that is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. If I have all the points I need right now to have all the skills I want, and then after HoT I no longer have all the points I need to have all the skills I want, then they have taken something away that I previously had, and don’t you dare try to argue otherwise. They have resulted in a net downgrade of my playing experience, and basic customer relations dictates that when you cause a net customer loss for your own purposes, no matter how necessary, you compensate them for that negative experience.

In the new system you will have a mastery type line for skill groups and for trait lines. You will have to spend hero points (read skill points) on each line to get each skill and trait in a linear fashion. If you use skill X from the signet line you will have to work through the signet line until you get to skill X, buying each skill before skill X whether you want it or not. This is the specific reason why unlocking the skills you already have might break their system. I would not put it past ANet to design this is such a way that if you already have skill X unlocked you won’t be able to get to skill Y and Z after you unlock skill W.

And if this is true, then they will have to give all existing level 80s ALL the Hero Points, enough to unlock every tree other than the new one, whether they currently have them all or not. They have to grandfather players in, that is not optional, however they have to do it.

They don’t have to do a single thing. I’ve pretty much had it with your whole attitude. I’m throwing the entitled card. You sir are entirely too entitled. They’re giving you the points you’ve earned based on the system they’re implementing. There is absolutely no reason, your indignation not withstanding, for them to do anything more than that.

Your build is probably going to be trashed as of the new system anyway, so it really doesn’t even matter. Deal with it, or go away. Demanding that they give you your heart’s desire just because you can’t live with the changes they are making to THEIR game doesn’t earn you anything.

They don’t have to do a single thing. I’ve pretty much had it with your whole attitude

Ditto, just so you know.

They’re giving you the points you’ve earned based on the system they’re implementing. There is absolutely no reason, your indignation not withstanding, for them to do anything more than that.

Because they are the ones changing the system. It’s no longer going to be how it currently is, and how it currently is works fine for me. If they are making the choice to change the current system, it is on them to compensate players for the fallout. This is not rocket science. Whenever these discussions take place, you seem to take the stance “ANet can do whatever they want and it’s automatically great just by virtue of being the thing they want to do.” Well maybe that works for you, and that’s great, but just accept as fact that it does not work for everybody, and that these people are no less entitled to their stance on the issue than you are to yours. You are not right, you just have your own position on things that is not inherently stronger than anyone else’s. If ANet does not have to do anything to keep you happy, then that’s fine, but if they do take away skills under the new system, then to keep me happy they have to also give them back.