Guild Wars 2

When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s

Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

Or you could play the game harvest the materials and while doing so craft the time gated stuff once a day mate instead of throwing gold on the tp.

Precursor crafting would be a lot of fun for me if it was more along the lines of a scavenger hunt: do certain events, kill certain mobs, get certain ingredients, etc. I wouldn’t mind a long list of things to do, but for it to be fun for me some things would have to be true:

1. Items from killing certain bosses and mobs would have to be a given – I kill it; I get the item.

2. Events would have to work in such a way that if I participate in the event, then I receive the item or trophy or whatever.

3. Getting items from nodes would involve farming the right item and getting what I need without a lot of guesswork or grind.

4. Materials would have to be in amounts that it wouldn’t feel like a huge grind to do.

I don’t mind a long list of things to do, but I like the rewards to be a sure thing, not something I MIGHT get if I repeat the action dozens of times.

Christonya.3856:

When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s

Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

Or you can play the game and treat it like a checklist of things to get.

Ayrilana.1396:

Christonya.3856:

When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s

Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

Or you can play the game and treat it like a checklist of things to get.

The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.

SO I have to buy them. But if I am going to buy them, then the cost of the item in question is about as high as the actual precursor on the tp

SO why would I do the precursor crafting when it results in doing the same thing as just buying the item, except I have to jump a few hoops as well.

Christonya.3856:

Ayrilana.1396:

Christonya.3856:

When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s

Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

Or you can play the game and treat it like a checklist of things to get.

The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.

SO I have to buy them. But if I am going to buy them, then the cost of the item in question is about as high as the actual precursor on the tp

SO why would I do the precursor crafting when it results in doing the same thing as just buying the item, except I have to jump a few hoops as well.

And here lies the dilemma with Legendary item crafting: It’s such a long, tiring, grindy experience, so much so that it’s off-putting.

This is why I’m going to save money and outright buy Eternity (or any other Legendary/Precursor/Hard-to-get item for that matter) off the TP.

“But then it won’t feel like an adventure, and the hard work, and yadda, yadda, yadda…”

Oh, there’ll be hard work. In the form of my job and having the paychecks roll in. It’s a goal I have, and I’ll work for it. Simple.

Why all this? Cause one thing is a month or two of reasonable, yet understandably challenging tasks, and another is several months/upwards of a year of excruciating grinding and time-consumption. If I had the time to play GW2 all day, then I probably would’ve taken on the challenge, but I don’t.

I’m not asking for a Legendary/[insert rare item here] today. But I don’t want it five months from now, either.

When does waiting becomes waiting for too long? That’s the question. There’s a boundary where the whole experience becomes off-putting. If players do not enjoy something, or rather, if an activity does not provide pleasure, then people will simply shy away from it. I’m not asking for 100% enjoyment, but rather 70% or 60%. What’s sad is that the percentage is far, far lower than that.

Avectius.3271:

Christonya.3856:

Ayrilana.1396:

Christonya.3856:

When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s

Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

Or you can play the game and treat it like a checklist of things to get.

The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.

SO I have to buy them. But if I am going to buy them, then the cost of the item in question is about as high as the actual precursor on the tp

SO why would I do the precursor crafting when it results in doing the same thing as just buying the item, except I have to jump a few hoops as well.

And here lies the dilemma with Legendary item crafting: It’s such a long, tiring, grindy experience, so much so that it’s off-putting.

This is why I’m going to save money and outright buy Eternity (or any other Legendary/Precursor/Hard-to-get item for that matter) off the TP.

“But then it won’t feel like an adventure, and the hard work, and yadda, yadda, yadda…”

Oh, there’ll be hard work. In the form of my job and having the paychecks roll in. It’s a goal I have, and I’ll work for it. Simple.

Why all this? Cause one thing is a month or two of reasonable, yet understandably challenging tasks, and another is several months/upwards of a year of excruciating grinding and time-consumption. If I had the time to play GW2 all day, then I probably would’ve taken on the challenge, but I don’t.

I’m not asking for a Legendary/[insert rare item here] today. But I don’t want it five months from now, either.

When does waiting becomes waiting for too long? That’s the question. There’s a boundary where the whole experience becomes off-putting. If players do not enjoy something, or rather, if an activity does not provide pleasure, then people will simply shy away from it. I’m not asking for 100% enjoyment, but rather 70% or 60%. What’s sad is that the percentage is far, far lower than that.

I’m curious Avectius.3271, how long have you been playing gw2

Christonya.3856:

The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.

This is your main problem. You have the option of playing the game, but you choose not to, so you feel “forced” to use the TP. All you need to do is level to 80, go to Orr and mine Mithril nodes. If you want Iron, you go to a lower level map, and mine nodes. The TP was designed to allow players to trade with one another, thus allowing for the movement of goods game wide. TP players are doing their part by offering to sell materials that other players need. You, being a player in need or materials, can get them faster buy paying the prices listed on the TP. If the prices are too high, the other option is to mine or gather yourself.

Avectius.3271:

I’m not asking for a Legendary/[insert rare item here] today. But I don’t want it five months from now, either.

When does waiting becomes waiting for too long? That’s the question. There’s a boundary where the whole experience becomes off-putting.

Yeah, seems reasonable to me. The thing is, from the evidence, it looks like Anet may believe it’s supposed to take far longer. I don’t know what their number is. 6 months? 9 months? A year? Two? Do they have an average?

Guhracie.3419:

Sadly, ANET has a history of making things that should be fun into thinly-veiled, flavorless gold- and/or time-sinks.

Yup

Celtic Lady.3729:

Precursor crafting would be a lot of fun for me if it was more along the lines of a scavenger hunt: do certain events, kill certain mobs, get certain ingredients, etc. I wouldn’t mind a long list of things to do, but for it to be fun for me some things would have to be true:

1. Items from killing certain bosses and mobs would have to be a given – I kill it; I get the item.

2. Events would have to work in such a way that if I participate in the event, then I receive the item or trophy or whatever.

3. Getting items from nodes would involve farming the right item and getting what I need without a lot of guesswork or grind.

4. Materials would have to be in amounts that it wouldn’t feel like a huge grind to do.

I don’t mind a long list of things to do, but I like the rewards to be a sure thing, not something I MIGHT get if I repeat the action dozens of times.

Fun fact, that’s pretty much exactly how Relic Weapons work in FF14

Gene Archer.8560:

Fun fact, that’s pretty much exactly how Relic Weapons work in FF14

ATMA, Alexandrite, materia, oh my…

The first couple of stages were reasonable, but it escalated… quickly…

Dark Saviour.9410:

Gene Archer.8560:

Fun fact, that’s pretty much exactly how Relic Weapons work in FF14

ATMA, Alexandrite, materia, oh my…

The first couple of stages were reasonable, but it escalated… quickly…

I’d say the materia portion is the worst, but yeah, the earliest stages are the best example of how to do it right, and I would even include the first atma phase in that, since even though it was, what, 25% droprate(?), the atmas could drop from any and every fate in the given zone and there were only 12 total to collect.

And you still got drops from mobs in those fates, as well as coin and company seals.

To be more clear, I think the best example of doing it right is the Braves Stage, wherein you take on various dungeons, quests, and challenges in order to power your weapon up, as well as the original initial stages of building the relic weapon itself.

Precursor crafting was suppose to be the way a player can bypass the RNG to acquire a precursor. That’s it. It did drop the price of Zap on the TP by 15% but since they are account bound there is will be no uptick in supply from crafting, just fear that demand will drop if players can acquire it via other means.

The price of that however is governed by the price of the materials needed and a sudden shift in demand will raise those prices as everyone rushes for the same limited supply of raw materials.

Linken.6345:

Or you could play the game harvest the materials and while doing so craft the time gated stuff once a day mate instead of throwing gold on the tp.

Do you REALLY REALLY tried it yourself yet?

Getting 10k iron ores, 5k platinum ores, and 15k mithril ores.
You call this fun? You want to do this?

Even grinding gold in SW is much more fun than this process, that’s why everyone and their mom use TP for this step because the requirement is just this insane.

Aomine.5012:

Getting 10k iron ores, 5k platinum ores, and 15k mithril ores.

Wait a minute. Are these the ACTUAL numbers? I haven’t farmed 15K of anything the entire 3 years the game’s been around…

It suposed to be a long term goal, i got 45 stacks of 250 mithril ingots already so all set there unsure how many iron since I convert them into ascended materials as soon as I get em.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Aomine.5012:

Getting 10k iron ores, 5k platinum ores, and 15k mithril ores.

Wait a minute. Are these the ACTUAL numbers? I haven’t farmed 15K of anything the entire 3 years the game’s been around…

Yes this is actual number.

Those who defend this system certainly has no idea of how horrendous it is, and still at step 1 thinking it’s fun.

80 Deldrimor Steel Ingot for Zap.
100 Deldrimor Steel Ingot for Dusk/Dawn.
IN ADDITION to other requirement that also need hundreds of Mithril, platinum, and iron ores.

When you compute those numbers into actual crafting materials, it is this much.
There’s no journey other than TP war of hunting those ores. Doing any other contents for gold is more enjoyable than this.

precursor crafting was never meant to be a way to get the precursor cheaper than the tp it is just a way to get a precursor out of RNG something you can work towards rather than hoping it would randomly drop.

get it through your thick skulls devs never ever mentioned it to be cheap or free it was stated multiple times it will retain the cost of the precursor in the market.

Step 1 was fun, when I saw the requirements for step 2 I stopped training the mastery line. I’ll probably go back to it for the HoT legendary, but I’d rather make 5 ascended weapons that I can use on a couple characters. than dump that amount of resources into a single item. I could see 5 and 10 required but legendary collections still cater to the 1%. And I really /care to put that much into a skin that quite a few people have after 3 years.

I will probably go do all the step1’s eventually though. >.<

I feel like crafting a precursor is more costly than buying a precursor, rofl. Plus you still have to buy from TP, the blood, scales etc… so it’s totally pointless.

I also dislike the fact that we have to do PvP to craft the second generation precursors, like I don’t play PvP… so being forced to play PvP to make a precursor is really irritating.

Grim Jr.8946:

precursor crafting was never meant to be a way to get the precursor cheaper than the tp it is just a way to get a precursor out of RNG something you can work towards rather than hoping it would randomly drop.

get it through your thick skulls devs never ever mentioned it to be cheap or free it was stated multiple times it will retain the cost of the precursor in the market.

I’m pretty sure the general sentiment was “give us a way to get precursors that we can do in our own time/way, preferably with a scavenger hunt feel to it.”

I’ve not finished a collection yet, but from the sound of it, it’s more like “here’s a scavenger hunt (the crust of the pie) and beneath that crust… voila! More of the stuff you said you didn’t want.”

All I can say is, I like the idea of legendaries and it would be cool to get one someday, but I don’t get why the precursor itself has to be such a mind-boggling task. It’s not even the legendary itself, which is already costly enough as it is. When I look at the time investment, I shake my head and go do other things. If that means I’ll never have a legendary, then so be it, I guess. A few sparkly effects for an insane amount of effort. Why should I bother when there are countless skins in this game, many of which look plenty cool, if not more cool?

I’m in this weird limbo with legendaries where I’d like to go for one, but the barrier is so intense that I’m immediately put off.

I wish it was a thing where I could just play the game and stockpile the mats over time, but 1) precursors are either RNG or a scavenger hunt interspersed with (apparently) costly and gated materials, many of which you aren’t likely to stumble into easily. And 2) many of the legendary recipes themselves require components that make you go into aspects of the game you never go into. So if I never play X, I’ll never get Y component. OK.

Tie me to a tree and spray me with a firehose… that would be more pleasant than the prospect I face, I think. I guess legendaries are not made for people like me.

Christonya.3856:

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

When I first heard about the news I was under the same impression as you. Though, at the time I thought since map completion was part of the required process to craft a legendary weapon, adding more tasks or challenges just to obtain a precursor would not necessarily enrich the experience to obtain it overall.

The amount of resources you now need for a guaranteed precursor is at least set to a finite amount. I recall before, you could literally waste gold, and would not yield a precursor from the mystic forge. A painful experience indeed to the hopeful, and thus this is a welcomed change.

The requirements to obtain a legendary weapon may be better defined now, but still I sympathize to anyone who can be just as determined, but suffer the arduous repetitive task needed that lies ahead of them. It may be a personal achievement, but it doesn’t have to be an individual effort. Food for thought.

Christonya.3856:

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP.

I don’t understand, help me out here .. surely if they’re available on the TP YOU can farm them too?

No?

Kraggy.4169:

Christonya.3856:

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP.

I don’t understand, help me out here .. surely if they’re available on the TP YOU can farm them too?

No?

People that responded like this are mostly people who don’t participate in the said activity, and never intend to engage in those activities.

People who are indifference, who doesn’t care about the issue, talking as if it’s not a big deal, are worse than people who bring up the argument. They respond either through ignorance (doesn’t know the issue) or arrogance(think it’s not a big deal cuz they’re filthy rich or already bought prec on TP).

Gl spending 200 days mining all the ores you need.
Oh wait, you probably would either not doing the precursor crafting anyway, or you’d pay the money on TP anyway.

Oh jeezes already! When did players become so kitteny?

If you want the legendary then work for it. If you don’t move on with your life.

I started working on my precurser and it really feels like a long journey with a heavy investment, and in the end it will feel even more gratifying to have that item.

PS: You have 3 ways to get a precurser/legendary, buy it with gold, farm or hope for a random drop (mobs or either from MF).

PSPS: Oh and noone is forcing you to make a legendary. So stop complaining.

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

Ragmon.6350:

So stop complaining.

And everyone is going to obey you without question just because…you say so…?

Riiight.

and i used recipe on Ele and when loged thief (where i have crafting skills) no recipe found i sayed wtf i buyed Tear 1 again its says you cant use that again bla bla bla so what i just can make on 1 char pre? why you dont make acc bound or put repeat collecting T1/2/3/4/5 on other chars

DavyMcB.1603:

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

You know nothing of economic.

Supply and Demand value is much more important than the said RNG value.
RNG value doesn’t mean anything if there’s no demand for it.

Anet implant this system without considering inflation, and here’s the result after excessively putting selective few mats in insanely high demand (iron ores, platinum ores)

Aomine.5012:

DavyMcB.1603:

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

You know nothing of economic.

Supply and Demand value is much more important than the said RNG value.
RNG value doesn’t mean anything if there’s no demand for it.

Anet implant this system without considering inflation, and here’s the result after excessively putting selective few mats in insanely high demand (iron ores, platinum ores)

And what did people use to craft those rares to throw in MF to get those precursors? RNG is just one but a very significant factor in the old system. I never stated even once in my post that demand and supply don’t matter. My point was that the price difference was largely contributed by the loss of RNG. Because, if you hadn’t noticed by now, THAT is basically the major difference/transition from the old system to the system we have now. In the old system, the generation equation of a precursors was always attached with chance-based multiplier, be in from chest drop, MF etc. etc. What you see in the old system was loosely their weighted average value based also on their opportunity cost. You had people who spent 3000g and got nothing. Then you had people who threw 4 rares and got spark. Was spark to be based on 3000g or 60 silvers?

Are you so naive to think that in the old system when you see a 1000g spark, it was the true, absolute value of that spark? You’re saying as if demand&supply mechanic is purely arbitrary. And by your logic, the law of supply & demand wouldn’t mean anything if there’s no demand for it too.

Do you know what this situation actually mean? It means the current precursors in Tp are under-priced and if I have golds to spare which you should be glad that I don’t, I would flip all of them and laugh on the pile of golds while you people are complaining how Anet doesn’t do things right.

DavyMcB.1603:

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

Economics is gated behind classes that cost money. They are P2W.

In all seriousness though, it is absolutely, positively ridiculous to expect a bunch of people playing an MMO to understand how economies work. People come from all walks of life and all jobs and talents. No doubt the people who are ignorant of economics have some skill or talent that you don’t.

Be proud of your knowledge of economics, but don’t put down others for not knowing, is what I’m driving at.

Anet please see all these posts about people wanting direct ways of getting items instead of having some currency in the way. They now pop up a lot mainly related to the precursors because 1 people who don’t like to grind currency did come back for HoT and 2 people who did not like this grind gold to buy are the most interested in the scavenger hunts.

I have been spamming you guys about this problem for over 2 years and you did eventually realize it was a problem, making some progress in HoT, but it still need more works. It’s a mentality change we need at Anet HQ where they want people to be able to work directly work towards items and also stop putting in more and more currencies because that is the best way to balance things / control the economy. Game-play should be more important than balancing the economy.

Grinding gold as an option is fine, but in an MMORPG there should always be the Life of the Land ability. That is how a huge part of MMORPG players like the content. Many of who did come (back) to HoT. Don’t scare them away again (again).

@Christonya.3856
It’s indeed still a problem however some steps have been made in HoT. It’s for example now better possible to farms for specific mats. On the map you can see what mats drop in what maps. Doing events in those maps should help you. I have not yet tested how efficient that is, but maybe that will work good enough for you being able to get the mats directly instead of buying them with gold you grinded.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Christonya.3856:

The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.

This is your main problem. You have the option of playing the game, but you choose not to, so you feel “forced” to use the TP. All you need to do is level to 80, go to Orr and mine Mithril nodes. If you want Iron, you go to a lower level map, and mine nodes. The TP was designed to allow players to trade with one another, thus allowing for the movement of goods game wide. TP players are doing their part by offering to sell materials that other players need. You, being a player in need or materials, can get them faster buy paying the prices listed on the TP. If the prices are too high, the other option is to mine or gather yourself.

This is true for some mats but not for others.

Labjax.2465:

DavyMcB.1603:

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

Economics is gated behind classes that cost money. They are P2W.

In all seriousness though, it is absolutely, positively ridiculous to expect a bunch of people playing an MMO to understand how economies work. People come from all walks of life and all jobs and talents. No doubt the people who are ignorant of economics have some skill or talent that you don’t.

Be proud of your knowledge of economics, but don’t put down others for not knowing, is what I’m driving at.

I know. I got carried away. But I mean, some people are really refusing to understand even if you shove it in their throat.

“oh you dont have enough to experience the precursor crafting system? Just buy some gold then "

DavyMcB.1603:

Labjax.2465:

DavyMcB.1603:

God, I explained it once, hopefully you will understand unlike the rest.

People should realize that those precursors on TP, what you see is just their FACE VALUE. The precursors of the old system were purely RNG based in term of their generation, meaning your 1000g spark possibly and probably came from 2000g worth of opportunity cost from throwing rares, dungeon boxes wasted, etc. etc. Normally this difference was absorbed by other people who were involved with the generation of that precursors: i.e. people who spent 1000g and still didn’t get the precursors.

When the RNG is gone, the TRUE value of the precursors appears, meaning, there is no one else to help absorbed the cost of the precursors but only the crafter himself. THE SYSTEM COMPENSATES FOR THE LOSS OF RNG by pushing EVERYTHING that used to constitute the value of the precursors through crafting.

ECONOMICS people, it’s not THAT HARD.

Anyone who think precursor crafting would make precursors equal or cheaper than the ones in TP must never have taken or slept through their economics class… or got an F.

Economics is gated behind classes that cost money. They are P2W.

In all seriousness though, it is absolutely, positively ridiculous to expect a bunch of people playing an MMO to understand how economies work. People come from all walks of life and all jobs and talents. No doubt the people who are ignorant of economics have some skill or talent that you don’t.

Be proud of your knowledge of economics, but don’t put down others for not knowing, is what I’m driving at.

I know. I got carried away. But I mean, some people are really refusing to understand even if you shove it in their throat.

I think a lot of people understand how it works, but that is not the point. People want the ability to life of the land, basically getting separated from the economy as total. This is a game, they want some experience and that is irrelevant to economy.

But then they run into the problem that some items they need cannot be earned directly and so they pretty much get forced into the grind-gold and buy.

When you then put effort into the equation it turns out that some ways (usually grinding some currency) are better to earn an item, then others. So here the economy go’s wrong and can’t be compared to the economy you had at school because you are dealing with scenario’s here that do not exist in reality.

See this example, and see gold as “a reward”, not the currency in game.
Mining for gold in the real world, is (as long as there is a ongoing demand for gold) the most efficient way to get gold, as the price of gold is based (in combination with demand) on that.

However trying to compare that to GW2’s world is like still having this mining for gold, however people will also randomly find gold all the time at their desk job.. just coming from nowhere.
Once in a while somebody might find some gold laying on his desk or whatever job he does.. and it does not come from mining, it just appears there. It’s very rare like one in 10.000 but with millions of people working it adds up. Many of these people might not be interested in the gold, so now the market gets flooded with gold not only from the mining but also from people just getting it.
This then results in the fact that mining might not become the most efficient way anymore. In fact for many of the items in GW2 there is not even this mine.. It’s just hoping you find it at your desk job or buying it and for some items even that is not possible, you can only buy them.

People however don’t only find gold, they also find all types of other materials at their desk. So now going to the office as much as possible is the most efficient way to earn money to buy the things you want other people found at their desk.

This is basically how it works at GW2, and your desk-job is the ‘grind’ in GW2. So it’s nice you did get some economy lessons but then you simply did learn what was told, not the logic behind it meaning you fail to apply it to this fictional world that works completely different.

DavyMcB.1603:

I know. I got carried away. But I mean, some people are really refusing to understand even if you shove it in their throat.

To be fair, you may have an aptitude for economics where others don’t. I took 2 classes in it in college to fill electives and I learned virtually nothing that I can still remember haha. Something about supply/demand, is more or less what I remember. Oh and something about there being no free lunch. I probably know enough to get the gist of what you’ve said about precursor costs. But not enough to say much on the subject myself, without risking looking like an idiot.

I think people complaining about the price of precursor crafting, and that it sometimes is even more expensive than buying it outright don’t really seem to grasp the point of it. In the past, everyone, even those playing only an hour per day due to work/family, could farm all the mats for the legendary on their own, without help or without the need for gold. It would be a very tedious process yes, but if say, you farmed SW, with EXP boosters, Karma boosters and good magic find for an hour each day and then maybe another hour to open all the chests for the keys you’d farm, you’d probably be able to get around 10-20 t6 mats/day. At this rate, a couple of months would be enough to get all the mats you need. By that time you’d also have enough obsidian, skill points/spirit shards, karma and enough gold to buy things like 100 icy runestones. However, since you’re hoarding it all, you don’t build up enough cash to be able to buy a precursor. That would require more focussed farming where you DO sell everything and make about 15 ish gold in the short time you play. This would add a couple more months to the process. Meaning that for Joe Casual, a legendary might take months, up to even a year. And this is a casual that would know how to be efficient. Most aren’t even that. Now you can work on your Precursor similarly to how you work on all the gifts that require mats. Slow and steady, never needing to make big purchases. In the end you might spend the same or more than just buying it but some people are better off paying for it in relatively small amounts rather than a large amount in one go. Most people don’t buy a house in one go either. You pay more for your house if you take a bank loan and pay interest every month than if your were to buy the house all in one go (not sure if this is how it goes in america but in europe this is how it works). Nobody thinks this is weird at all since no one would be able to buy a house if bank loans didn’t exist. And right now, almost no casuals have legendaries because they cannot pay for the precursor in one go. That’s why precursor crafting was introduced.

Be careful what you wish for, because Anet will make your wish come true… and do it in such a way to make you wish they didn’t.

DavyMcB.1603:

Are you so naive to think that in the old system when you see a 1000g spark, it was the true, absolute value of that spark?

Of course not. Nothing is absolute (except the death and taxes, ofc). But still, the value of the high-demand precursors (those that were consistently produced from MF by people like Wanze) was higher than their average forging cost. When it lowered (due, for example, to t5 mats becoming cheaper) the cost of matching precursors lowered as well. If you had the gold to get through bad streaks (which was the main problem), you could actually count on earning money that way.

DavyMcB.1603:

Do you know what this situation actually mean? It means the current precursors in Tp are under-priced and if I have golds to spare which you should be glad that I don’t, I would flip all of them and laugh on the pile of golds while you people are complaining how Anet doesn’t do things right.

As i pointed out, they are not. Or at least the high-demand ones are not. Of course, what you say is true for precursors like Carcharias, but then they are so low because noone wants to buy them at higher price. If you were to sink your money into flipping them, the one who would laugh would be me, not you.

Aomine.5012:

When you compute those numbers into actual crafting materials, it is this much.
There’s no journey other than TP war of hunting those ores.

I’m not disagreeing that the amount required is high.

I am disagreeing that buying them on the Trading Post the only way to do it.

When I crafted my three legendaries I gathered all the ore for them myself. I gathered that 1000 Platinum Ore… and you know what? Didn’t actually take that long. A couple of hours whilst I watched videos. So 10,000 Iron Ore? 2 hours a day for, say, 10 days? It is doable, indeed, I pre-gathered a few thousand each of iron, platinum and wood prior to HoT’s release so I think I’m in quite a good position if I choose to craft something.

I think ArenaNet’s idea behind precurser crafting is to give you the ability to craft a precurser in chunks. You can break it up however you want. I’d choose to see 1000 Iron Ore as a “chunk”; something I could do on an evening when I’m tired after work but still want to feel like I’m progressing. I’d only have to rinse-and-repeat nine times to complete the 10,000 total ore.

Do you see my point? Probably not.

TL;DR. The Trading Post isn’t the only option. You can gather it…it’s just people don’t want to.

Before HoT, after less then 8 months of playing, i tried my hand at the MF and walked away (ea time with less then 100g ‘investment’) with 2 precursors within a week. (the staff and the minstrel one)
Sold both since i didn’t want to spend time on things i didn’t care for, like dungeons.

Now they come up with either an endless farm of materials, a timegated farm added to that AND they force me to do things i don’t want (like PvP) in order to do the same thing (even worse imo, but that’s me).

For this gift, your dedication to the game will be tested: you’ll need materials that can only be acquired after completing all of the Heart of Maguuma Masteries, map completion of the expansion zones, and a lot of each of the map-specific currencies.

The Gift of the Mists is where you will find the Gift of Battle, which is purchased for Badges of Honor and a special material crafted of ascended and fractal materials; the Gift of Glory, purchased with the new tradable material Shards of Glory that only comes from Player vs. Player reward tracks; and the Gift of War, purchased with a new tradeable material, Memories of Battle, that only comes from playing World vs. World.

After reading that, one must realize that crafting that new legendary will require even more work and time and gold.

But after reading this :

…with a group of designers locked in a room with a whiteboard…

I know that those same designers are also responsible for the grand failures brought upon us in the past. They should really learn not lock those people up with a bunch of stimulants to improve their inventiveness. I think they sniffed one time to much.

Lastly : for those that go for the crafting and the so called “journey”, Good Luck to you all, i hope you enjoy being ‘dedicated’ to the game in ALL parts of the game (you’ll need to). If you ever end up with that amazing legendary, congratz, you’re now officially a dedicated GW2 nerdie, or, like us normal people like to call it, a no-lifer. You earned it.

As for those that don’t venture into this absurd over the top ‘design’ , enjoy the game the way you like it, not the way the grand designers think you should. And stop complaining, you should have known it already.

I can’t wait for you to see it.

We saw it allright. Not impressed.

p.s. : quotes are taken from https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

Christonya.3856:

When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s

Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.

I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.

So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.

So you need to gather a fem more mats than for an acended weapon? What is tur problem here? You expected to get your precursor on release date? The idea was to remove the random element. So i think it is in a good place atm, you can fast forward with TP or you can grind mats yourself over time.

Sarie.1630:

Aomine.5012:

When you compute those numbers into actual crafting materials, it is this much.
There’s no journey other than TP war of hunting those ores.

I’m not disagreeing that the amount required is high.

I am disagreeing that buying them on the Trading Post the only way to do it.

When I crafted my three legendaries I gathered all the ore for them myself. I gathered that 1000 Platinum Ore… and you know what? Didn’t actually take that long. A couple of hours whilst I watched videos. So 10,000 Iron Ore? 2 hours a day for, say, 10 days? It is doable, indeed, I pre-gathered a few thousand each of iron, platinum and wood prior to HoT’s release so I think I’m in quite a good position if I choose to craft something.

I think ArenaNet’s idea behind precurser crafting is to give you the ability to craft a precurser in chunks. You can break it up however you want. I’d choose to see 1000 Iron Ore as a “chunk”; something I could do on an evening when I’m tired after work but still want to feel like I’m progressing. I’d only have to rinse-and-repeat nine times to complete the 10,000 total ore.

Do you see my point? Probably not.

TL;DR. The Trading Post isn’t the only option. You can gather it…it’s just people don’t want to.

If you have the time and patient to do this boring mining all days, I’d use them on grinding gold on fighting mobs and buy them on tp instead, which is more fun and actually quicker than gathering mats.

The end result is exactly the same, just that grinding gold is actually much faster and more engaging.

You probably can’t see my point either because even mining all days and doing nothing else is considered fun to you. I vote labyrinth grinding more fun than gathering because there’s actually bosses to fight that requires strategy, thinking, and dodging.

Verificus.4320:

I think people complaining about the price of precursor crafting, and that it sometimes is even more expensive than buying it outright don’t really seem to grasp the point of it. In the past, everyone, even those playing only an hour per day due to work/family, could farm all the mats for the legendary on their own, without help or without the need for gold. It would be a very tedious process yes, but if say, you farmed SW, with EXP boosters, Karma boosters and good magic find for an hour each day and then maybe another hour to open all the chests for the keys you’d farm, you’d probably be able to get around 10-20 t6 mats/day. At this rate, a couple of months would be enough to get all the mats you need. By that time you’d also have enough obsidian, skill points/spirit shards, karma and enough gold to buy things like 100 icy runestones. However, since you’re hoarding it all, you don’t build up enough cash to be able to buy a precursor. That would require more focussed farming where you DO sell everything and make about 15 ish gold in the short time you play. This would add a couple more months to the process. Meaning that for Joe Casual, a legendary might take months, up to even a year. And this is a casual that would know how to be efficient. Most aren’t even that. Now you can work on your Precursor similarly to how you work on all the gifts that require mats. Slow and steady, never needing to make big purchases. In the end you might spend the same or more than just buying it but some people are better off paying for it in relatively small amounts rather than a large amount in one go. Most people don’t buy a house in one go either. You pay more for your house if you take a bank loan and pay interest every month than if your were to buy the house all in one go (not sure if this is how it goes in america but in europe this is how it works). Nobody thinks this is weird at all since no one would be able to buy a house if bank loans didn’t exist. And right now, almost no casuals have legendaries because they cannot pay for the precursor in one go. That’s why precursor crafting was introduced.

All this talk about banks and loans in order to purchase a house, as well as getting lectured about economics is supremely depressing. I know how the real world works. Games are supposed to be a place to set that aside; a place where we get to dream and achieve and have fun.

Honestly, if making a precursor is analogous to taking out a loan from a bank, there’s something deeply wrong with the system. There’s nothing fun about having a mortgage.

I don’t think anyone expected ANET to mail them a precursor for purchasing HoT, but I do think people expected the “legendary journey” to be fun. At the very least, more than just an endless grocery list.

To be honest from ANET’s announcements I believed that crafting a precursor would cost large amount of time (30-40ish hours) and little money so that people that wanted to feel the story of a weapon and not spend much money could do that.
After reading few topics like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3qe2cv/precursor_journey_complete_the_colossus_steps_and/ i think I’m gonna give up on crafting the shield and would buy it from tp like I did with every other precursor. 50-ish or even 150g is not really worth it. I might loose some story which makes me sad but the diffrence in gold is too small to even bother.

Btw, just like to add that I do like the scavenger hunt they implemented, and I will start doing it (until I reach a point where I might need to start grinding gold to buy the items I need).

But I also think something is wrong if you do get to that point where you have to grind gold to buy mats, and / or if grinding gold to buy a precursor in total still is the most efficient way.

Perhabs I might do same thing – do hunt until I need to buy mats. Problem is that reddit discussion I provided shows that you can only do 1st part and then you have to craft something for 250g and from what I read this applies to all legendaries so Im not sure if its even worth my time. If it was do a hunt and crafting and spending money being last step, but giving up midway seems baaaad.

Aomine.5012:

If you have the time and patient to do this boring mining all days, I’d use them on grinding gold on fighting mobs and buy them on tp instead, which is more fun and actually quicker than gathering mats.

The end result is exactly the same, just that grinding gold is actually much faster and more engaging.

You probably can’t see my point either because even mining all days and doing nothing else is considered fun to you. I vote labyrinth grinding more fun than gathering because there’s actually bosses to fight that requires strategy, thinking, and dodging.

I never said gathering was faster. I said it was doable.

Aomine.5012:

There’s no journey other than TP war of hunting those ores.