Precursor crafting. I don't get it . . .
All this talk about banks and loans in order to purchase a house, as well as getting lectured about economics is supremely depressing. I know how the real world works. Games are supposed to be a place to set that aside; a place where we get to dream and achieve and have fun.
Honestly, if making a precursor is analogous to taking out a loan from a bank, there’s something deeply wrong with the system. There’s nothing fun about having a mortgage.
I don’t think anyone expected ANET to mail them a precursor for purchasing HoT, but I do think people expected the “legendary journey” to be fun. At the very least, more than just an endless grocery list.
This is what happens when you let an economist run the show.
Exept it’s not like a bank loan at all .
All this talk about banks and loans in order to purchase a house, as well as getting lectured about economics is supremely depressing. I know how the real world works. Games are supposed to be a place to set that aside; a place where we get to dream and achieve and have fun.
Honestly, if making a precursor is analogous to taking out a loan from a bank, there’s something deeply wrong with the system. There’s nothing fun about having a mortgage.
I don’t think anyone expected ANET to mail them a precursor for purchasing HoT, but I do think people expected the “legendary journey” to be fun. At the very least, more than just an endless grocery list.
This is what happens when you let an economist run the show.
Yeah sadly to much focus on that. Their economy guy is also active on the forum and he is a nice guy and I appreciate it a lot that he takes the time to talk to the player base.
I also think he knows a lot about the economy. But the problem is that this controlling of the economy (in combination of trying to earn money with items vs the game) does not benefit the game itself. Well only for those who like to grind gold.
From an economic standpoint everything makes a lot of sense. Economy does not work with a “life of the land” mentality, it works with currency that you control with currency skins (And we have a lot of both on this game). But many games want to experience this life of the land experience. Also shown by the many threads like this one.
These topics also spiked with the release of HoT, something I in a way predicted. I said this grind gold to buy what you want needed to go (or be way less) with HoT because those that got scared away by this mentality would come back with HoT. And you do not want to scare them away again as they won’ come back.
2 months or so ago the major part of the players base (that cared about these things) where the grinders so you did see less of these topics. Now with HoT also the ones that don’t are back, and that is a big number in MMORPG games.
Everyone who is defending the precursor crafting is missing the point.
You have 2 choices atm:
1) farm gold and buy precursor from TP (there’s no RNG involved there)
2) farm gold, farm mats, farm trophies, level masteries, invest kittenloads of time in it and get a precursor
The final price is more or less the same with small variations.
What would you choose?
(edited by VaLee.5102)
Everyone who is defending the precursor crafting is missing the point.
You have 2 choices atm:
1) farm gold and buy precursor from TP
2) farm gold, farm mats, farm trophies, invest kittenloads of time in it and get a precursorThe final price is more or less the same with small variations.
What would you choose?
And if only the ‘grind gold’ would be removed from option 2 (by making the items better available in-game), a lot more people would be happy.
this would also hold truth for a lot of other things in the game, not only precursor crafting.
One of the things I notice in this game vs many other MMORPG’s is that high tier mats can in fact by hard to get and might realistily not be farmable. (same is true for other items as well). Usually you see that high tier mats are in fact easy to get, they are just in high level maps. What reduce the feeling of grind because you do need many of those mats. (They are placed for example in nodes, that keep spawning and are ordered in such a way that you can run in a circle farming the nodes until you have what you need)
In those games the time-gate / thing that is hard to get usually is a precursor item / recipe. Still there is a direct approach to getting it. It drops form some specific boss or in a dungeon and might even be account-bound.
Both ways make sure the items are rare but one feels like a grind and results in people grinding gold in the most efficient way (playing only a small part of the game) while the other results in people going all over the world to do the content they need to get that one item they need. Farming mats is just a side activity that takes you a few min.
Everyone who is defending the precursor crafting is missing the point.
You have 2 choices atm:
1) farm gold and buy precursor from TP
2) farm gold, farm mats, farm trophies, level masteries, invest kittenloads of time in it and get a precursorThe final price is more or less the same with small variations.
What would you choose?
More like they’re not even doing the crafting, or completely clueless about the case.
Those people are either:
- Not bother about making a legendary anyway
- Still on Tier 1 of scavenger hunt
- Bought their precursors a long time ago
That’s why they can defend this non-sensual design.
What was it again they announced precursor crafting as?
Ah yes:
An epic journey, a completely new design, a fun scavenger hunt.
My reality atm?
Farm mats after spending hours on bugged events.
Congrats anet. You’ve done it again. Taken a pretty perfect concept and just destroyed it.
And why? Because you want to keep your precious legendaries rare.
Newsflash: they arent. Most gw2 players have at least one, a LOT have at least 3 or more.
When you compute those numbers into actual crafting materials, it is this much.
There’s no journey other than TP war of hunting those ores.I’m not disagreeing that the amount required is high.
I am disagreeing that buying them on the Trading Post the only way to do it.
When I crafted my three legendaries I gathered all the ore for them myself. I gathered that 1000 Platinum Ore… and you know what? Didn’t actually take that long. A couple of hours whilst I watched videos. So 10,000 Iron Ore? 2 hours a day for, say, 10 days? It is doable, indeed, I pre-gathered a few thousand each of iron, platinum and wood prior to HoT’s release so I think I’m in quite a good position if I choose to craft something.
I think ArenaNet’s idea behind precurser crafting is to give you the ability to craft a precurser in chunks. You can break it up however you want. I’d choose to see 1000 Iron Ore as a “chunk”; something I could do on an evening when I’m tired after work but still want to feel like I’m progressing. I’d only have to rinse-and-repeat nine times to complete the 10,000 total ore.
Do you see my point? Probably not.
TL;DR. The Trading Post isn’t the only option. You can gather it…it’s just people don’t want to.
If you have the time and patient to do this boring mining all days, I’d use them on grinding gold on fighting mobs and buy them on tp instead, which is more fun and actually quicker than gathering mats.
The end result is exactly the same, just that grinding gold is actually much faster and more engaging.
You probably can’t see my point either because even mining all days and doing nothing else is considered fun to you. I vote labyrinth grinding more fun than gathering because there’s actually bosses to fight that requires strategy, thinking, and dodging.
You only need to mine 90 iron and 40 plat to make your deld ingot each day. I went to the NW corner of brisban and had 15 iron from the rich node alone in about 30 seconds. In 4 more minutes running around the canyon I probably hit 6 more iron nodes and had 39 iron plus a couple of logs. Focusing on the rich node areas, its like 15 minutes to get a day’s ore. buying the same amount costs you 3.5 gold. There aren’t many permanent activities that yield 14g/hr after tp fees.
After you do that you have the rest of your day’s playtime to come up with one ecto and ~75 silver to buy the mithril and reagent for the mithrillium. Slowly but surely you will get there. But in the instant gratification world of today, I know that this is hard.
These precursor related mat sinks (esp. mithril) are actually needed to keep the economy in some semblance of balance. Ask how much fun it would be if everything was at vendor value and your drops were completely worthless? (even more so than they are now)
tl;dr – break up the task, take your time and it won’t feel so grindy. The tortoise wins.
I think people complaining about the price of precursor crafting, and that it sometimes is even more expensive than buying it outright don’t really seem to grasp the point of it. In the past, everyone, even those playing only an hour per day due to work/family, could farm all the mats for the legendary on their own, without help or without the need for gold. It would be a very tedious process yes, but if say, you farmed SW, with EXP boosters, Karma boosters and good magic find for an hour each day and then maybe another hour to open all the chests for the keys you’d farm, you’d probably be able to get around 10-20 t6 mats/day. At this rate, a couple of months would be enough to get all the mats you need. By that time you’d also have enough obsidian, skill points/spirit shards, karma and enough gold to buy things like 100 icy runestones. However, since you’re hoarding it all, you don’t build up enough cash to be able to buy a precursor. That would require more focussed farming where you DO sell everything and make about 15 ish gold in the short time you play. This would add a couple more months to the process. Meaning that for Joe Casual, a legendary might take months, up to even a year. And this is a casual that would know how to be efficient. Most aren’t even that. Now you can work on your Precursor similarly to how you work on all the gifts that require mats. Slow and steady, never needing to make big purchases. In the end you might spend the same or more than just buying it but some people are better off paying for it in relatively small amounts rather than a large amount in one go. Most people don’t buy a house in one go either. You pay more for your house if you take a bank loan and pay interest every month than if your were to buy the house all in one go (not sure if this is how it goes in america but in europe this is how it works). Nobody thinks this is weird at all since no one would be able to buy a house if bank loans didn’t exist. And right now, almost no casuals have legendaries because they cannot pay for the precursor in one go. That’s why precursor crafting was introduced.
All this talk about banks and loans in order to purchase a house, as well as getting lectured about economics is supremely depressing. I know how the real world works. Games are supposed to be a place to set that aside; a place where we get to dream and achieve and have fun.
Honestly, if making a precursor is analogous to taking out a loan from a bank, there’s something deeply wrong with the system. There’s nothing fun about having a mortgage.
I don’t think anyone expected ANET to mail them a precursor for purchasing HoT, but I do think people expected the “legendary journey” to be fun. At the very least, more than just an endless grocery list.
This. A million times this. Fun is the key ingredient here. Legendary Weapon making just isn’t fun. I can only play up to 3 hours tops (sometimes only 1 hour or less) of GW2 per day. Assuming I’d farm for every single mat and not buy them off of the TP, as well as get all the Karma needed, the Badges of Honor, etc… how long would it take me to make, say, Sunrise? If the answer is more than two months, I’m not doing it. Period. People have different levels of patience, you know? Heck, if the process was fun and enjoyable, I’d probably be ok with doing it, but it’s not. It’s tedious work. Imagine being told that you have to do tedious work for five months of more in order to get your Legendary? People will just save money and buy it off of the TP. If ANet wants to encourage players to “go on the legendary journey” both for Legends and Precursors, then this is not the way to do it. And of course, it’s worse for me, since I want Eternity, so I’d have to make both Sunrise AND Twilight. Imagine how torturous and horribly-tiring that’d be.
Many people that have waited 2 years for the “precursor hunt” have already done everything required to craft our own precursor several times over.
There’s nothing new involved with crafting them. Same fractals, same events, same nodes we’ve gathered from hundreds of times. The only thing new about it are the pathetic shopping lists that you even need to pay for to unlock. Nothing about is new or interesting at all. This would be a fine system if the game launched with it. It didn’t. Releasing this now is just a failed and feeble attempt at a third-rate illusion of new content. Yuck.
isn’t there are many voice about how much of an epic quest for legendary? The precursor hunt look quite epic jounery to me.
Let me give a simple example :
after posting here earlier today, i went to play the game and we were talking about Ghall and crafting and such in guild. since i was kinda bored i tried my hand at the MF again.
5 minutes later and 22g bought in rares : Dusk dropped.
15 minutes later and around 130g down : Howl dropped.
That’s 5 precursors in 3 months without the intention of ever making a legendary (sold em both today)
So tell me, for someone who’s rather lucky in getting pre’s, why would i spend several months to a year in making the “journey” , farming like a nutter (cause everyone wants it now), and doing things i do NOT like (PvPing for example), to be considered ‘dedicated’ and having just one legendary weapon ?
Those that want to take their time in doing that, all hail to them, i wish them well, but most players don’t want to spend an eternity to get their legendary weapon when they’re forced to do things (over and over again) they don’t like at all.
Most players want to do things with others, do WB’s, events, JP’s and whatnot, and not spend 80% of their time just farming ores/mats and hunting the TP just to get the materials to get one frikkin weapon.
Something being ‘doable’ doesn’t mean it’s enjoyable. Players asked for challenges, great, they responded, but farming like a moron isn’t a challenge. It’s treating the players like headless chickens.
Sure, you have dedicated players that are willing to go above and beyond to get what they want, but how many are they ? As far as i can see, it’s a minority.
But I also think something is wrong if you do get to that point where you have to grind gold to buy mats, and / or if grinding gold to buy a precursor in total still is the most efficient way.
And that is something the developers will never understand. Because like an architect that designs houses, and say “ooh, look how awesome we are and what we did”, they never LIVE in those houses they designed. They never actually started a character and build it up from zero to hero with a legendary weapon over the course of several years.
Because if they did, they would at least realize what they do wrong.
Getting a pre and a legendary shouldn’t be easy, for everyone, but it should not come down to “how many hours have i spend ingame farming gold”.
Ask yourself this question : “How many hours have i wasted on something i did not like in order to get something i don’t need instead of having actual Fun.”
Here’s to the dev’s :
If you really want players to play the game and spend gems or gold, then please come up with some innovating idea’s for the gemstore (more weapon skins for example) or try to be at least original by giving players what they want : an engaging experience throughout the whole of Tyria (better rewards for map completions would be a start).
HoT is very well designed and the gliding is awesome, the events engaging and challenging, now take that and port it to crafting and don’t treat players like morons who can’t count.
As for me, my pre’s are going straight onto the TP so someone else doesn’t have to waste time on farming mats and can actually have fun. Even if it’s farming SW for gold.
My 2 cents.
Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm
Arena Nets are used to catch Gladiator Fish.
Legendary crafting is not for the faint of heart. It is for hard core players that want really rare skins. There are plenty of other cool skins you can go for.
Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm
That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.
And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.
Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm
That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.
And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.
All it shows is that far too many people thought that they could do an event, kill a vet spider, commune with a hero point and have a 900gold weapon dropped in their lap. The delusion is strong.
the funny thing is im sure if they did something like all the mats needed you cant buy from the tp but is still “gated” as you guys say it is but you have to farm it for like 7 months people would still complain and say it’s too long bla bla people just want their precursors handed to them
Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm
That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.
And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.
All it shows is that far too many people thought that they could do an event, kill a vet spider, commune with a hero point and have a 900gold weapon dropped in their lap. The delusion is strong.
This is the default, but untrue response you get in a lot in these topics. In fact, if anything, they are asking for the opposite.
They want a journey or a challenge.. not a brainless gold-grind.
the funny thing is im sure if they did something like all the mats needed you cant buy from the tp but is still “gated” as you guys say it is but you have to farm it for like 7 months people would still complain and say it’s too long bla bla people just want their precursors handed to them
If you had to grind mats the complains would indeed be the same as it’s then basically the same as grinding gold. Mats are something that should indeed be easy to get.
however putting in some other extremely hard to get items and people did not complain so much as they DO NOT want their precursors to be handed to them. They just do not want this currency-grind. (In you example, the mats become the new currency)
They gave you a road map for a definitive 100% guaranteed precursor. Yes, it costs a lot of materials, but the farm is MAYBE 1 hour per day for about a month. When your done with that, and working on your legendary? Guess what it takes about 6 months of farm or so if you do not want to buy items off of TP. My Flameseeker Prophecies cost me 100 gp to negate the last couple of months of farm.
These are collection quests, meant to take time, and resources. They are precursors to legendary weapons, but you WILL get a precursor if you put in some time and energy. I figured with how long it takes to craft the legendary itself, that the pre would be about 3-4 months of work and thats what its looking like. I get maybe 2 hours of play time a night, and am working on Bifrost T2 currently. I hop on, spend some time salvaging leather, doing some mining then going on with my day. I am even doing Dusk and Kudzu at the same time.
It takes time, or it takes money, or it takes both. Pick your cost.
The Wrecking Krewe[NYE] – [Maguuma] Arum Bloodclaw
Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm
That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.
And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.
All it shows is that far too many people thought that they could do an event, kill a vet spider, commune with a hero point and have a 900gold weapon dropped in their lap. The delusion is strong.
This is the default, but untrue response you get in a lot in these topics. In fact, if anything, they are asking for the opposite.
They want a journey or a challenge.. not a brainless gold-grind.
So tell me Mr. not-so-brainless – what would a journey be that doesn’t tank the economy?
Doing events? – check
Crafting things? – check
Going to out of the way places? – check
Killing strange foes and finding new loot? – check
Having to actually invest some shred of time into it so everyone doesn’t rush it within 10 days and simultaneously nuke the entire ingame economy? -check
The only gold you seem to need is 5g to unlock then some cash for thermo reagents and ancillary things. But you want it NOW and don’t want to put in effort, so you complain gold grind.
If you make it too easy to acquire (that doesn’t require much grind), then you get the legions of players who already have a legendary throwing a fit (imagine the “Twice-Told Legend” fury x 1000).
But they couldn’t make it too difficult either. Tie precursor hunts with something difficult like raid challenges and you get legions moaning that it’s “too hard” and “not fun.”
I’m not convinced there is a solution that will satisfy even a simple majority of players here.
I want this to be a fun experience. I agree that it should be a hard, challenging process as well. The current system is not fun at all. I would like to see more diverse things to do other than the current grind things we have already been doing for 2 years or more. I feel like this is just doing the exact same thing as before, just under a different label. I expected more quest style things to do rather then the dominating open world farm for mats routine we are already tired of. I dont mind it being expensive to buy the things, as I feel its supposed to be a journey, not a pay to obtain thing. I just wish it involved more lore and exploring… maybe they should do a story line designed around each type of legendary. Sure, include some mat farming, but limit it to about 20% of the content or less. be creative, stop falling back on the SOS we do every day.
The major complaint about precursors was that they were 100% RNG. The solution to it of course was shell out a bunch of money to get it from TP. There were no realistic options to get it otherwise that didn’t involve RNG.
So Anet made it so you can get precursors without RNG, it just takes a significant amount of legwork.
The community decides, nope, I don’t want to do all of that legwork, I want my precursor without RNG, and without having to do legwork outside of my normal comfort zone of only doing <insert specific niche content here>. Thus the option to purchase a precursor or legendary is still there.
The real problem is that people are complaining as though they are forced to purchase it because they are so effing impatient and/or lazy to take the time to craft it that they immediately go to TP (like they would have pre-HoT), and then blame Anet for it.
Seriously guys. They are legendaries. Either suck it up and purchase it, or take the long, epic journey to gather the pieces you need. If I remember, it was always billed as a scavenger hunt, which as far as I can tell, is exactly what we got. Just seems most people look at the list and are like “Ugh, I have to do stuff to get these items? Ehhhh…nevermind…I thought they were just going to hand them out.”
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
The major complaint about precursors was that they were 100% RNG. The solution to it of course was shell out a bunch of money to get it from TP. There were no realistic options to get it otherwise that didn’t involve RNG.
So Anet made it so you can get precursors without RNG, it just takes a significant amount of legwork.
The community decides, nope, I don’t want to do all of that legwork, I want my precursor without RNG, and without having to do legwork outside of my normal comfort zone of only doing <insert specific niche content here>. Thus the option to purchase a precursor or legendary is still there.
For me the consideration was: “Nope, I don’t want to do the things I already did hundreds of times another thousand times.” That’s the problem for me as a veteran with a hefty gold wallet. Nothing new, just a shopping list of tasks I’d done before so often I have no interest in them anymore, and resource I’ve gathered multiples the precursor requirement of.
So, yeah, I bought a Dawn on the TP after I completed the tier 1 collection.
As I said before, this system would’ve been fine and dandy had the game launched with it. For me, it’s too little, too late.
Yay…another one of these threads. Yes, farming is hard. Keep spending time complaining about it, instead of just playing the game and gathering the items you need. Talk about “productive”! /sarcasm
That’s it. They don’t want to grind gold, need to do it this ‘productive way’, as if it’s a job. They do not play a game to be productive, they play a game to have fun. And hunting down items is fun for them, but grinding (very efficiently) gold to buy those items, is not.
And “Yay…another one of these threads.” only shows this is true for many people.
All it shows is that far too many people thought that they could do an event, kill a vet spider, commune with a hero point and have a 900gold weapon dropped in their lap. The delusion is strong.
This is the default, but untrue response you get in a lot in these topics. In fact, if anything, they are asking for the opposite.
They want a journey or a challenge.. not a brainless gold-grind.
So tell me Mr. not-so-brainless – what would a journey be that doesn’t tank the economy?
Doing events? – check
Crafting things? – check
Going to out of the way places? – check
Killing strange foes and finding new loot? – check
Having to actually invest some shred of time into it so everyone doesn’t rush it within 10 days and simultaneously nuke the entire ingame economy? -checkThe only gold you seem to need is 5g to unlock then some cash for thermo reagents and ancillary things. But you want it NOW and don’t want to put in effort, so you complain gold grind.
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
If you make it too easy to acquire (that doesn’t require much grind), then you get the legions of players who already have a legendary throwing a fit (imagine the “Twice-Told Legend” fury x 1000).
But they couldn’t make it too difficult either. Tie precursor hunts with something difficult like raid challenges and you get legions moaning that it’s “too hard” and “not fun.”
I’m not convinced there is a solution that will satisfy even a simple majority of players here.
Yet the question is not to make it easy. They ask to remove the grind for gold to buy the items… because then they could just as will buy the precursor. But that does not mean you could replace that with some other hard content or farming one specific item or something like that.
So Anet made it so you can get precursors without RNG, it just takes a significant amount of legwork.
The community decides, nope, I don’t want to do all of that legwork, I want my precursor without RNG, and without having to do legwork outside.
Complete utter nonsense.
The community says.. “I still need to grind (Silverwaste) to buy the items I need”. That is something else.
Many people here who complained about the precursor crafting stated it was ok te be hard, it just should not be the same grind.
Then many of those defending say they “Just want it for free”. Pretty much the same argument I have seen for 3 years here on the forum with these types of discussions and it’s a straw-man. You are making your own truth by suggesting they ask for something that in fact they do not ask for.
That does not proof your point because you are dismissing something nobody is saying in the first place.
But yeah you are right.. It would be bad if they make it easy, and Anet also never said it would be easy. So for those who want it to be easy (what is close to nobody.. who complains about the grind) they are wrong.
So there you go, you proven the point to.. well to those wanting is easy. To bad they are not here in this thread.
(edited by Devata.6589)
“People want everything for free” is what people say in every thread about acquisitions when they haven’t got anything intelligent to say and just want to be generally insulting in order to feel superior.
The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.
SO I have to buy them. But if I am going to buy them, then the cost of the item in question is about as high as the actual precursor on the tp
SO why would I do the precursor crafting when it results in doing the same thing as just buying the item, except I have to jump a few hoops as well.
You’re logic is so flawed. Mining nodes involves “playing the game”. Mithril can be mined in Fractals. Mithril can be mined in the Maguuma Jungle. You can do a round of iron farming in so many maps and easily get 100 iron ore in <30 mins. I don’t understand you’re complaining. You do not HAVE to buy the materials. You just choose to.
Including the thread linked here I’ve seen two threads tallying up the price of crafting the precursor and they both come out to around 600 something gold and both are two handed weapons. Lindsey mentioned that there were differences in prices between 2h, main hand and offhand weapon as well as underwater.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Staff_Head
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Dagger_Hilt
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Spear_Head
The spear is the cheapest of those 3. The dagger still has a hefty ascended material cost but fewer of the other two. Information for offhand only weapons would also be interesting.
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.
“People want everything for free” is what people say in every thread about acquisitions when they haven’t got anything intelligent to say and just want to be generally insulting in order to feel superior.
When the core complaint is “the price of [this luxury item] is too high”, it is a fully appropriate argument.
(edited by thehipone.6812)
When legendary crafting was first announced, it was talked about how the most frustrating part of obtaining a legendary weapon, was of course: The precursor.
https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=34m49s
Now. This had me pretty excited, since throwing money at the TP was… Well, not fun. Now I finally completed the first collection for Zap. I got my pattern, learned it, and went to check and see what I needed to craft this item. It became immediately clear, that the cost of materials, was not going to be part of the world, but rather, the TP. I find myself at an impasse. Where moving forward requires me to do, what I had hoped I wouldn’t have to do.
I have two choices. To throw money at the TP. Or avoid crafting this precursor. I had expected, or I suppose hopped that moving through the collection would have me doing challenges, and working towards obtaining the item. Not just simply buying the materials off the TP. To make matters worse, the crafting items in question are ascended, which means: Time gating.
So I really just don’t understand it. I thought the idea behind the collection was to have players running around completing challenges to obtain this amazing item. Not throwing money at the TP, as if the collection just didn’t exist.
Or you can play the game and treat it like a checklist of things to get.
The problem is, ‘playing the game’ for me involves being in fractals, or the maguuma jungle. Neither of which give me access to iron, mithril or many other materials needed to craft the ascended items needed to make the precursor.
SO I have to buy them. But if I am going to buy them, then the cost of the item in question is about as high as the actual precursor on the tp
SO why would I do the precursor crafting when it results in doing the same thing as just buying the item, except I have to jump a few hoops as well.
I always have been a fan of games that promote end objectives, or a given goal, through game timed objectives. If you spent time playing you should be given a clear progression towards completing a goal. No grind, no market day job, no gold sink.
GW2 is left standing on the middle. The mechanisms are there, but dont work as they should, this is my opinion ofc.
I really dont know whats the purpose of such a high ladder to give a player a legendary. I really dont.
Does ANet think theres more generated income by doing so? Perhaps, but the other side of the coin is the frustration many players feel about this and thats also a wieght in the balance of revenue. I would prefer makes things easier and make everyone happy so they could remain in the game.
Im one of those players that spends money in the game when im happy, not when i need to achieve something. Take that in mind.
Having fun with HoT though. The new maps are so amazing. Lets see what the future brings.
“When in doubt, choose change.” Leung
“All great changes are preceded by chaos.” Chopra
‘No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change the world’ Robin Williams
“All great changes are preceded by chaos.” Chopra
‘No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change the world’ Robin Williams
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.
You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.
You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.
Please elaborate on what those items are or just admit to the hyperbole. I’ve gone through the spark series and everything is either a basic crafting mat or relatively common stuff like ectos and crystalline dust.
Guy below gets it. V
(edited by thehipone.6812)
I am working on Kudzu Tier 1 crafting. The only thing I need to buy on the TP is the WvW things, I think they are called Shards of Glory and the other one…I forget the name. Everything else, I am hunting around for. Every night I go to a map, I try to pick one I haven’t finished yet within that level of gathering mats, and start gathering. Unless it is something that is really not for me, like the WvW, I try to save money and do it myself. My goal is to craft one material a day. It will take me a month or two but it has been fun.
“Nothing clears a troubled mind better than shooting a bow”
I am working on Kudzu Tier 1 crafting. The only thing I need to buy on the TP is the WvW things, I think they are called Shards of Glory and the other one…I forget the name. Everything else, I am hunting around for. Every night I go to a map, I try to pick one I haven’t finished yet within that level of gathering mats, and start gathering. Unless it is something that is really not for me, like the WvW, I try to save money and do it myself. My goal is to craft one material a day. It will take me a month or two but it has been fun.
That’s pretty much what I’m doing, but for a different Legendary. No complaints from me.
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| Claara
Your skin will wrinkle and your youth will fade, but your soul is endless.
I think a lot of people understand how it works, but that is not the point. People want the ability to life of the land, basically getting separated from the economy as total. This is a game, they want some experience and that is irrelevant to economy.
Precursor crafting gives them exactly what they want then – a clear path towards a precursor that is not RNG dependent with, for someone farming it themselves, a fixed cost.
But then they run into the problem that some items they need cannot be earned directly and so they pretty much get forced into the grind-gold and buy.
All the items they need can be earned directly. In fact for precursor crafting the vast majority are one shot collectibles or harvestable materials that don’t involves RNG elements at all.
When you then put effort into the equation it turns out that some ways (usually grinding some currency) are better to earn an item, then others.
Er, I guess? Hitting iron and platinum nodes is pretty time efficient. I suppose the people who have memorized routes have an advantage there but it doesn’t strike me as a big one and certainly not one that can be overcome. If you really would prefer to grind silverwastes to pay someone else to farm those nodes for you that’s great, but it’s not like you couldn’t do it yourself if you really wanted to avoid exchanges.
I mean, I hear the ‘I want to live off the land!’ and respect that, but then coming back with ‘but it is more efficient to trade!’ is just, like…duh, of course it is more efficient to trade. That’s how trade works. Choosing to live off the land is a handicap that you take on in order to enhance your experience, coming back with ‘but it is a handicap’ isn’t something you should expect to generate sympathy.
So here the economy go’s wrong and can’t be compared to the economy you had at school because you are dealing with scenario’s here that do not exist in reality.
You’re dealing with a production process that does not give you a single, pure product. It’s something that occurs with every production process that exists in the real world. Sometimes in the real world these are externalities that you don’t even have full control over – akin to being account bound.
You handle these things the same way in the real world. There’s an extensive literature on it.
(edited by Ensign.2189)
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.
You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.
Please elaborate on what those items are or just admit to the hyperbole.
If that was supposed to be a hyperbole you use it wrong.
Example.. well Charged Lodestone? Examples? I should go check out the current drop-rates of everything but I am pretty sure Karka shells and Passion Flowers are one of these mats that you are way better of grinding gold to buy them then to farm the mats yourself because there is no real decent way to get them.
it would be more bearable if we still had dungeons for easy gold gathering since all the mats to craft the precursor are buyable on the TP. unfortunally with the nerf to it we now are bound to a different kind of rng; findind or not finding SW chest trains
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.
You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.
Please elaborate on what those items are or just admit to the hyperbole.
If that was supposed to be a hyperbole you use it wrong.
Example.. well Charged Lodestone? Examples? I should go check out the current drop-rates of everything but I am pretty sure Karka shells and Passion Flowers are one of these mats that you are way better of grinding gold to buy them then to farm the mats yourself because there is no real decent way to get them.
All easy to find:
Charged lodestone – For Spark you need 1. One. Map rewards are a guaranteed option.
Karka Shells – Guaranteed 5 for KQ kill. Karka train racks them up nice and quick, with bloods as a bonus.
Passion Flowers – Guaranteed from blooming passiflora.
I will also repeat it again. I Like the precursor hunt. These parts where you basically still have to grind gold not, but for the rest I do.
It’s exactly what this game needs.
I am more interested in this thread as it shows that there are in fact many people who prefer this life of the land mentality over the grind gold to buy what you need.
And sadly, for many items in the game that still is the only viable option, making things to grindy and scaring away people.
There are recipe’s that require 250 charged lodestones but there is no way to farm them, and especially when you need 250 that part should be easy or it will feel like a boring grind. You want to make the item special, then require 1 item that is extremely hard to get instead of 250 that are very hard to get.. so hard that grinding gold to buy them is the real viable option.
If you make a backpack, you are required to buy an item for 6 gold so even if you make gold yourself you are required to get gold first.
They do there best to put the best items in the gem-store and the only in-game option to get those is to grind gold.
So this is a problem that extents beyond precursors, but what this thread does is proving that many peoples dislike that approach. Now if you don’t want to scare those people away again you need to stop with this approach.
ArenaNet clearly did acknowledge this problem as they did a lot of things with HoT to solve it. For example making mats better farmable (linking them to map events) and by implementing the precursor farming, but at the same time the problem is not yet solved completely proven by that same precursor crafting and the many new gem-store items. There are many of these examples and they all add up.
While clearly a huge part of the player-base (at this moment) dislikes that.
If you make it too easy to acquire (that doesn’t require much grind), then you get the legions of players who already have a legendary throwing a fit (imagine the “Twice-Told Legend” fury x 1000).
But they couldn’t make it too difficult either. Tie precursor hunts with something difficult like raid challenges and you get legions moaning that it’s “too hard” and “not fun.”
I’m not convinced there is a solution that will satisfy even a simple majority of players here.
All they need to do is add new ACCOUNT BOUND materials, a system like HoT maps currency. You have to do engaging events to get your currency.
It’d be a long journey, but at least it DOESN’T involve the economy and is not a gold gate yet again.
(edited by Aomine.5012)
Well according to many you need items items (mainly mats) that you can not really get in a decent way, other then grinding gold to buy them.
That is the complain they talk about.
So to add to you list..
Grind gold to buy materials. Check
It’s that part they don’t like. The rest is fine. I did not say it was missing any of the things you mention here.
You can’t get iron and mithril any way other than grinding gold and buying? Interesting take.
You can’t make your point without the straw-man? I did not say that. There are however mats that you can not get farming for them directly. Iron and mithril you can farm.
Please elaborate on what those items are or just admit to the hyperbole.
If that was supposed to be a hyperbole you use it wrong.
Example.. well Charged Lodestone? Examples? I should go check out the current drop-rates of everything but I am pretty sure Karka shells and Passion Flowers are one of these mats that you are way better of grinding gold to buy them then to farm the mats yourself because there is no real decent way to get them.
All easy to find:
Charged lodestone – For Spark you need 1. One. Map rewards are a guaranteed option.
Karka Shells – Guaranteed 5 for KQ kill. Karka train racks them up nice and quick, with bloods as a bonus.
Passion Flowers – Guaranteed from blooming passiflora.
Well, I will notice soon enough if these complains are true or not. For me it’s more important that that this way of doing things (grind gold being the only viable option) is still a lot in the game, and these threads show many people disliking it.
If you make it too easy to acquire (that doesn’t require much grind), then you get the legions of players who already have a legendary throwing a fit (imagine the “Twice-Told Legend” fury x 1000).
But they couldn’t make it too difficult either. Tie precursor hunts with something difficult like raid challenges and you get legions moaning that it’s “too hard” and “not fun.”
I’m not convinced there is a solution that will satisfy even a simple majority of players here.
All they need to do is add new ACCOUNT BOUND materials, a system like HoT maps currency. You have to do engaging events to get your currency.
It’d be a long journey, but at least it DOESN’T involve the economy and is not a gold gate yet again.
People already consider the new content “HARD” I understand what you are saying, but it STILL wouldn’t be able to satisfy the majority.
precursor crafting was never meant to be a way to get the precursor cheaper than the tp it is just a way to get a precursor out of RNG something you can work towards rather than hoping it would randomly drop.
get it through your thick skulls devs never ever mentioned it to be cheap or free it was stated multiple times it will retain the cost of the precursor in the market.
Actually it was. If it wasn’t then they wouldn’t have released it. Think about it, if the precursor collection is the same cost as just buying the item from the TP . . . . Why do it ? The point of the crafting was to give us challenges to over come things to do, a world to run around in RATHER then just busting out the wallet and throwing money at the TP. Unfortunately, the mats required are HUGELY unrealistic, and rather then having a realistic number or more preferably a list of challenges … Well, instead you need to grind gold, not really a journey when you think about it.
oh good god, people like to be spoon-fed everything these days. There’s a reason legendary weapon being called ‘legendary’: it’s rare, it’s worth alot of effort, else they are no different than the starter weapons if everyone has one.
Ok, first you were yelling “it’s too rare, give a way to make one, I’m ENTITLED to a precursor”. Now you got a sure way to make one, now it’s “NOT FUN, TOO HARD!” , give me a break. If you are not willing to do all the work, then you are not deserved to wield one, simple as that. Do me a favor, recite the word “legendary” 1000 times before bed each night and contemplate what it means and then make a demand for your… entitlement.
Regarding the TP, no one forces you to use it. If other people do it the TP way, it’s their problem. You have the free will of doing it the “right” way. Don’t make the fake argument that you are forced to use the TP to make a legendary. If you don’t make a legendary effort, no legendary for you. Stop being a spoiled kid at everything, be glad that there is a SURE way at all that you can obtain one without touching the TP. If you resort to the quick way with the TP, it’s your own free-will and laziness, don’t blame on the game mechanics.
If ya no longer see me after this post,
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
(edited by quaniesan.8497)
oh good god, people like to be spoon-fed everything these days. There’s a reason legendary weapon being called ‘legendary’: it’s rare, it’s worth alot of effort, else they are no different than the starter weapons if everyone has one.
Ok, first you were yelling “it’s too rare, give a way to make one, I’m ENTITLED to a precursor”. Now you got a sure way to make one, now it’s “NOT FUN, TOO HARD!” , give me a break. If you are not willing to do all the work, then you are not deserved to wield one, simple as that. Do me a favor, recite the word “legendary” 1000 times before bed each night and contemplate what it means and then make a demand for your… entitlement.
No one has at any point said it shouldn’t require A LOT of work to obtain. People are stating the WORK required for it shouldn’t be doing some thing totally irrelevant to make gold to throw at the TP.
The LS S2 ‘hard mode’ achievements were a pain, but were fun. They were a challenge, it felt good to try them figure out how to do them, and then execute it properly.
But this ? This is just throwing money at the TP again. Which is what the original problem of getting a precursor was. Not the RNG. But the pure cost of obtaining the item, a lot of people just don’t have that sort of gold. But what they do have… Is time. Time that they are more then willing to spend combating challenges, doing puzzles ect ect.
SO we’re left in the following position. A: Do the collection and spend just as much money doing it as buying the item off the TP. Or B: skip the hoops and just buy it off the TP.
Which goes back to my title: I don’t get it. What’s the point of the precursor crafting when the over whelming majority of it is spending time on the TP? I might as well just buy the pre and enjoy it immediately rather then suffer through the collection which is the same cost any ways.
I realize the argument of “Oh well just go run around lower level zones and mine 15k iron and 10 platinum you don’t have to deal with the TP!” Ignoring how egregious those numbers are, why not just … SELL the items on the TP at that point instead of stocking up 15k of any ore which you probably don’t even have the bank space for in the first place? At which point it goes back to the original argument…. Why not do content you want to do IE the maguuma jungle, and sell items from it for gold to buy the precursor?
oh good god, people like to be spoon-fed everything these days. There’s a reason legendary weapon being called ‘legendary’: it’s rare, it’s worth alot of effort, else they are no different than the starter weapons if everyone has one.
Ok, first you were yelling “it’s too rare, give a way to make one, I’m ENTITLED to a precursor”. Now you got a sure way to make one, now it’s “NOT FUN, TOO HARD!” , give me a break. If you are not willing to do all the work, then you are not deserved to wield one, simple as that. Do me a favor, recite the word “legendary” 1000 times before bed each night and contemplate what it means and then make a demand for your… entitlement.
Regarding the TP, no one forces you to use it. If other people do it the TP way, it’s their problem. You have the free will of doing it the “right” way. Don’t make the fake argument that you are forced to use the TP to make a legendary. If you don’t make a legendary effort, no legendary for you. Stop being a spoiled kid at everything, be glad that there is a SURE way at all that you can obtain one without touching the TP. If you resort to the quick way with the TP, it’s your own free-will and laziness, don’t blame on the game mechanics.
Very few people are complaining about the difficulty. In fact, it’s not really difficult, it just costs either a lot of time (not really an issue) or a lot of money (kind of an issue). It’s certainly not difficult for me to run around a map farming nodes or generating gold, but the fact that somebody could just bust out their credit card to exchange gems to gold just to bypass the huge gold gates in the precursor crafting sections really devalues the journey.
You are rewarded with a precursor largely because of persistence, not skill. This is what many are upset by. I’m irked by it too, but I’m still logging in every day to craft my ascended mats because I am going to make at least some of these precursors. I just sincerely hope it doesn’t end up taking years to just make a couple of them though. Don’t forget, you still have to craft the legendaries afterward which take a fair amount of time and gold too.